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I'm posting this here 'cause it gets the most traffic. It might be off topic, it might not.

Someone in my office is having some marital difficulties. I don't know much, though this person has made a general announcement to our smallish office and has been very appreciative of the support. What I do know is that he is not living at home at the moment.

I found out a few days after the general announcement as I am not always in the office every work day. Most of us are out and about during the day and might not actually get to the office. At the end of the week, we are usually all there, hence a general meeting.

I offered my sympathy, thoughts and prayers. Most people there know that I've been going through my own tough time. But I don't know what else to do. I would really like to offer up a link or a referral to this website or Dr. Harley's books. But I don't know the specifics of the problem(s) and I really don't feel right asking. Either he or both (again, don't know) are getting counseling but not sure of the particulars.

Any ideas or advice without really seeming like an obnoxious, snooping know-it-all?

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OH, I usually just tell them a little about Marriage Builders and why it is different from traditional marriage counseling. MB has saved some pretty bad marriages, whereas traditional MC has an 84% failure rate. I just tell the friend a few basic facts and tell them where to find MB.

What I discover MOST OFTEN is that the couple has been to a traditional marriage counselor and has decided to just GIVE UP. That makes me so sad, because I always wonder if the marriage could have been saved.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I bet we would be friends IRL.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Actually, the failure rate for traditional counseling is 82.786%.(taken from the marriage counseling success studies archive and the encyclopedia Brittanica).

Last edited by Zelmo; 02/15/10 11:04 PM.
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Wow, Z. They've improved.

It wasn't that long ago the failure rate was a little over 1% higher than that.


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Seriously, can someone point to a study on this failure rate? It seems a little high, IMO.
My therapist told me that after infidelity, however, his success rate was less than 10%.
But, in general, how is failure rate calculated?

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Dr. Harley cites this % from a study done by psychologists for Consumer Reports.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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While the MC failure rate is probably mostly result of the techniques practiced, I think it's also due to the fact that, since it's usually only started after the M is in major difficulties, it's basically the equivalent of choosing to renovate the stable after the horses have already bolted.


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Dr. Harley cites this % from a study done by psychologists for Consumer Reports.

IMO, one study is not enough.

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Originally Posted by Zelmo
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Dr. Harley cites this % from a study done by psychologists for Consumer Reports.

IMO, one study is not enough.

Disagree. It is for me. And it is for Dr Harley. The report seems to confirm all the experience we see here and his professional background spanning 35 years. I have no reason to believe otherwise.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I don't buy it. If the success rate were that low, the business would dry up. Just does not ring true to me.

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Originally Posted by Zelmo
I don't buy it. If the success rate were that low, the business would dry up. Just does not ring true to me.

Your reasoning is not compelling, Zelmo. I don't buy it. What is compelling is that Dr Harley does buy it and cites evidence to back up that opinion. You offer nothing.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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�it doesn�t ring true� is not a rational basis on which to dismiss something, in other words. It is an emotional, subjective reaction based on feelings. Feelings are not truth.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
�it doesn�t ring true� is not a rational basis on which to dismiss something, in other words. It is an emotional, subjective reaction based on feelings. Feelings are not truth.

He cites one study. Heck, you can find one study to support anything.

Let's agree to disagree. Wanna buy a bridge?

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Originally Posted by Zelmo
I don't buy it. If the success rate were that low, the business would dry up. Just does not ring true to me.

To me, traditional MC is like the weight loss gadgets/pills we see on TV. Way more failure that success but there's a whole lot of desperate people still buying it anyways.

I shelled out a good amount of cash in MC and it just made things worst. The jury is still out on MB with my case but I feel my chances are much better now.

--ElCamino72

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Just googled "marriage counseling success rates". Found some conflicting info. Two clinicians from UCLA report that their study showed that 64% of couples who went to traditional counseling reported imprevement.
Another one, obviously not accurate , from the marriage counselors themselves, says 98% report great improvemnt.
Point is that one can find stuff to justify his position on this, and we need to be skeptical re the $$$ motivation of promoting one's method over another.

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**edit**

Last edited by Fireproof; 02/16/10 12:45 PM. Reason: TOS = disrespectful
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**edit**

Last edited by Fireproof; 02/16/10 12:06 PM. Reason: TOS - disrespectful
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Originally Posted by Zelmo
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
�it doesn�t ring true� is not a rational basis on which to dismiss something, in other words. It is an emotional, subjective reaction based on feelings. Feelings are not truth.

He cites one study. Heck, you can find one study to support anything.

And you cite a feeling, Zelmo. crazy I have much more faith in Dr Harleys expertise, backed up by studies than your feelings.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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OH, did you inform your co-worker about MB yet? If she has marital problems, the name marrigebuilding.com should say a lot on it's own. You would not have to go into great detail or know the exact issue she is dealing with. Like Mel said, point out a few highlights. If you speak with her in person, I'd also send an email with the link or give her the website on a sticky as it is easy to forget stuff...especially since she has a lot on her mind.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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