I did not force or demand or even encourage her after the first conversation. I said I thought it would be OK but it is up to her. And (Baba forgive me) I gave her a credit card to pay for what S15 needs.

I also suggested that she ask whether he prefers to come along or she could drop him off at the commuity center and he could play basketball while Mrs. Hold and S15 shop. So I agree with your idea of dropping him off.

I am not enthusiastic about leaving someone else's 15 year old son alone with D13. Or alone in our house assuming we find somwhere else for her to go. He is basically a good kid but stuff happens.

Ok, gotcha. I completely understand about not leaving him alone in your house, I hadn't thought of that, having only sons who are still just babies.

Just babies, I say!!!

So did she decide to drop him off?

Got our other "son" returned home yesterday. The other family was a class act and got us a gift certificate to a fancy local restaurant as thanks for "boarding" their son. Unexpected. Welcome.

I told Mrs. Hold that I do not want a big party or event to celebrate my 50th birthday. We had a big party for my 40th and I had a terrible time and fell into a depression from which I have never really recovered. She was sad to hear I am so disappointed in my life but promised she will respect my wishes.

We had good intimacy. No sex. Which is pretty much where my head is these days. I still resent her enormously. In the past that did not interfere with my desire for her. Now it does.

She said I am messed in the head and need help. I said we both are. She said "yes, 2 peas in a pod." I said "it is too bad that we could only hurt one another and not help each other heal. It would have been a beautiful thing to heal each other."

Of course, people do not heal each other. They have to heal themselves first.

Kudos to you for telling her how you feel about these things.

Hold, how did she do with the credit card? Did she show you receipts when she got home and gave back the card?

And kudos, too, for your O&H. And I think those parents reflect you...you and MrsHold are class acts, too.

LA

She never went shopping. She did not want to drag the other kid.

She hasn't given me the card back yet. S15 hurt his ankle at the BB game Friday so he can't try on flippers. Maybe this coming weekend. Guess I should ask Mrs. Hold for the card back so she doesn't get tempted to use it between now and then.

As for me and Mrs. Hold, not sure what we are. Too foolish to stand up for ourselves? How come we were willing to take 5 nights and no other parents were even willing to take 1 night? Hmmmm, or maybe the kid wanted all 5 nights with us? Maybe he figured the family with the Dad who plays video games was the best choice for "hotel"? Hmmmm. Didn't think of that before. In fact, one of the other kids whose family was asked to "host" visiting kid stayed with us Friday night and his parents had to drag him home late Saturday because he was having so much fun playing with S15 and our "adopted" son. And you should have seen the enormous pile of chocolate chip pancakes that D13 made for S15 and his friends Saturday morning. Maybe the kids know we are the best place to crash! Even if we don't have a 4th bedroom and the friends had to crash on double stacked air mattresses in the living room.

Yes, asking for it back would be an act of love and protection for your wife. Which means, you might not.

lol

Sorry about S15's ankle...you boys.

Yes, you might just be the fun house. You might also be the house about the kids...all about the kids. I dunno. You might also be the adventurous family...or it's your S15 that's the draw.



What did you ask for your 50th bday specifically from your wife?

LA

Nothing. She had "girls night" on Saturday. They realized that they will all be turning 50 the same year (several years from now). They fantasized about a joint trip or joint party.

My 50th is before theirs. Mrs. Hold said something like "what are we doing for yours?" I said "nothing, and tell my mother too (God willing she will still be with us)". She said "yes, your mother will probably ask, and the kids will expect to do something, so we can't do nothing. But we can be much lower key than for your 40th."

I am not sure I want anything from Mrs. Hold for my 50th. Just not to spend too much between now and then and not make a big deal of it when it arrives. In prior years I would have asked for something sexual. Now I am ashamed to ask because even if she were willing I have no confidence I am able. And I would feel like a jerk for foisting myself on her so I would feel guilty afterward.

The only gift I want for my 50th is not to be so depressed and pessimistic. To feel like I have a reason to continue living. And that is a gift only I can give myself.

Tell the wife for your birthday you want "A reason, any reason...NOT TO DIVORCE HER!"

And then secondly, "A reason to live"

I have 2 good reasons not to divorce her.

And I have plenty of reasons to live. If I choose to view them that way.

She cannot give me a reason to live. I have to want that for myself. Right now, I am more comfortable living with frustration and resentment and rage and misery. I am not comfortable living with success and satisfaction and joy. That needs to change. I wish I knew how.

Look at these two sentences:

~WHAT REASON DO I HAVE TO STAY MARRIED TO MRS HOLD

~WHAT REASON COULD MRS HOLD GIVE ME TO HAVE ME WANT TO STAY MARRIED TO HER?

These statements have two completely different meanings.

Hold,

With all resentment still held onto, and the other M problems I have, all I can say is hang in there.

OMG Bubbles... our SF life has been many fold better since you and cat, and OH helped me write that contract. I can only say that she lost control the other night. I haven't seen her like that since I don't remember! Thanks.

I like it MUD!!!!! YAY for our side!

Understood. I could have my reasons regardless of her behavior. Then there are additional reasons she could provide through her behavior.

But that depends on what "could" means. I don't think she can give me those reasons unless I earn lots more money. I am not prepared to even try to earn more money. So she cannot give me more. And I am partly responsible for that.

Perhaps another woman could give me those reasons without requiring the extra income first. That doesn't mean Mrs. Hold can.

Just as another woman without her history might be able to behave in ways that she cannot. Doesn't mean she can.

The question is what do I do about her inability? Do I let it define me? Bind me? Destroy me? Or do I choose to thrive despite her inability to meet certain of my needs? So far I have chosen to curl up into a ball and throw a temper tanrum and withdraw from life. I could make healthier choices.

Mud So glad to hear about your wife's success. And yours. Kudos to both fo you.

Well, mud... I'm happy for you.

AND I'm jealous.

So's Hold (nudge nudge).

We are both smiling at you through gritted teeth.

LOL!

(Actually, hold's probably not doing that. He's a better person than me that way. He's probably not even jealous! :-))

Perhaps another woman could give me those reasons without requiring the extra income first. That doesn't mean Mrs. Hold can.

This is the saddest most heinous thing I have heard in a while. You know HOLD< your wife would not give you what you need EVEN IF YOU HAD MORE MONEY OR MADE MORE MONEY AND GAVE HER A CARTE BLANCH CREDIT CARD WITH NO LIMITS!

She would just continue her spending addictions which she likes so much and forget about what you need...as she is doing now to a smaller scale.

MORE MONEY WOULD NOT HELP YOUR MARRIAGE IF YOUR WIFE IS FUNDAMENTALY SELFISH!!!

Telly I have explained 100 times how you can get a good sex life going in your marriage. But you will not make the attempt.

I am sorry your husband is such a butt. He would be a tough nut to crack though you could do it. You could get past your insecurities and lead you two back to a good sex life. I would start with some of his teaching materials on sex.


What he teaches about sex in his classes, he should read and apply at home. Unless what he teaches is HAVE NO SEX IF YOU CAN HELP IT, EVEN IN MARRIAGE AND EVEN IF YOUR WIFE WANTS TO MAKE LOVE< DONT DO IT!

HOLD: I so wish that your wife would come talk to some of us here.

MUD: Awesome news, so great that things are turning around for you. I hope some day they turn around for HOLD too, I still believe they can.

I have a question if you don't mind HOLD

Do you guys find that when you are stressed you have want more sf or less????

My h all of a sudden dropped of the radar the past couple weeks, an unusual drop. Not even a hint of wanting it and he has had the less amount of stress in a long time. Yes I can approach him however that almost always ends in him being unable to. He is healthy no issues there. He was on vacation for awhile during this.

So is this just something guys go through????

Bubbles

I disagree. Mrs. Hold provided lots of sex when she wanted something from me. Marriage. She stopped providing sex when she got what she wanted. If I had more money, I would be more likely to leave. More likely to be able to find another woman who would provide the sex Mrs. Hold is unable to provide (and yes, I realize it would be a mistake to base another committed emotional relationship on the exchange of FS for SF, but the availability would nonethless be increased even if I were wise enough to seek a different kind of relationship - and not every sexual relationship needs to be a committed emotional one). I think if I had enough money to hide most of it beyond the reach of her divorce lawyer, she would make herself available.

Well, her body. Whether she would make her soul available is another story. I am not sure she would trust any man enough to let down those walls. Certainly, in my present state I am not trustworthy in that regard. I would like to think I was back when we got married. Hard to say.

Telly
I am not more gracious than you. I am very jealous that Mud's wife responded. Happy for him. But with a tinge. Not as bad a tinge as years ago, because I am more resigned to my situation never improving. But that is a depressive response, not wisdom or healthy acceptance.

BJS

Mrs. Hold did post here briefly years ago. She did not like the reception, and left soon after.

As for your husband, every person is different. Some react to stress by wanting less sex. Some want more. Some eat more. Some eat less. Some people throw themselves into feverish activity to distract themselves from the stress. Some curl into a ball and withdraw from life.

If your H generally uses sex to cope with high stress, he might want less sex when he is relaxed. Or perhaps the ED bothers him more than you imagine. So when he is alone with you on vacation, and knows you expect (wish?) sex to happen, the anxiety makes it even more difficult for him to perform. Would he tell you if you asked?

HOLD:
Spouses are sooooo......sooooo......frustrating sometimes. Not that I would ever be frustrating to my spouse.

Maybe just maybe some day things will turn around for you. I'm not losing hope for you and your wife.

Thanks for the thought on my h. This actually is kind of unusual for him to go this long without initiating. prior to this his need had increased a bit and it was nice. Then all of us sudden it stopped and I don't think we have ever gone this long for no reason.

We have talked about the ED and like I said it occurs more when I initiate. Which just kills me cause it took me a long time to find my sexuality. So I try not to initiate it. He usually has no issues when he initiates.

I could ask again however I think I will get the IDK statement that he usually makes when we discuss us. Also I have kind of taken a hiatus of sorts on pulling our marriage.

UGH