Oh, that's marvelous, markos! I know you can line up babysitting...you do the most remarkable things.

Congrats!

LA

Markos, dude, that's huge..... Good on ya mate....

Yes, it is.

When my wife emails me and just says "I'm lonely," what are some good ways to validate her feelings?

Because:

"So ... you're lonely?"

just doesn't look right.

Yeah, no doubt.... My wife used to do the whole stay at home mom thang all the time without a lot of social time and I got those texts/e-mails often. My typical response was something like "Oh, I'm sorry, that sucks. I know I sure would rather be with you and the kiddo's right now. Hey, why don't we do XYZ this evening. or You wanna plan something fun for the weekend?"....

For my wife, she loves to plan/dream. Now if I tell her that she ought to go see her friend blah blah blah and try to "fix" her loneliness that is typically not met with a good reception... I don't know if that helps but it's what used to work for me.

I do respond trying to make plans a lot, but to some extent that feels like trying to fix things, too.

Also, these messages are usually triggered by some feeling that she is not telling me about. I think it is an attempt to feel me out to see if I am going to respond in a positive way if she talks to me.

Markos...

Re-read LH's response again...he validates, acknowledges, shares he'd rather be with her, and then does positive/fun of plan/dream. Maybe if you replied in steps like this...first validate/acknowledge...send. Share, send. Checking on or thinking up plans or going over when you will be together, isn't fixing anything...it's bringing you two together and getting an emotional response to that right then. As if it were now. Brain can't tell the difference...doesn't fix, does smooth and reassure.

Tell her you'd love to know more of what her loneliness feels like.

Would you consider continuing to respond in a neutral way?

LA

I need some more help coaching me to avoid love busters in emailed conversation with my wife.

Background: as you can see from previous posts, our house has been an absolute mess for a few weeks, now. This weekend we really turned to, she cleaned the living room up quite a bit, I washed tons and tons of dishes. I was planning on finishing that job tonight.

Due to a noisy child in the night situation, my wife slept on the couch two nights ago, and much of the clean laundry from that couch is now on the floor. Add in a couple of dishes from eating dinner in front of the television last night, and my wife came in to a fairly messy living room this morning, and we had the following conversation:





So at this point, I've asked her about her feelings, and I'm trying to validate those.

And I'm trying to share my opinion. I really don't feel like I'm wrong for having a differing opinion.

I'm not demanding she do anything. I'm not having an angry outburst. I don't think I'm engaging in a disrespectful judgment, although I can see how this would be construed as one. How can I express my opinion without engaging in a disrespectful judgment?

Or am I just supposed to shut up and never have an opinion? I'm getting really tired of that. I don't think it's a long-term solution to anything.





So, let me have it. Wake me up to what I'm doing to my wife. Please.

Hi Markos,

I know it's hard to stifle your opinion. But the truth is, most women know exactly how to "solve" a problem. She really doesn't need you for that. Unless she asks you for your ideas, you are being counter-productive.

She doesn't need you to tell her anything about how it could/should/might be done. She doesn't need it. In the same way that if you were complaining about someone at work, you wouldn't really need her to solve it for you.

Listening to her, supporting her, being present to her, that IS doing something. It's doing something huge.

I have explained it this way... It's like my emotional/mental garbage cans get full, and unless they get emptied, I can't do what I know I should do.

So if my husband listens to me and supports me, we are emptying my mental garbage cans together, and then I'm much lighter--and free to do the work that needs to be done.

You telling her what to do just adds more garbage to the cans. Defeats the whole purpose... AGain, unless she says she wants your help/opinion/advice. Even then, I would mostly listen to her--"What are YOU thinking you could do?"

So your conversation should have gone something like this:

Originally Posted By: she
so, here we go again. starting completely over on the house, again.


Originally Posted By: me
You feel like we're starting over?


Originally Posted By: she
didn't you see the living room this morning? I can't accomplish anything


Originally Posted By: Markos
"I saw it, and I understand you feel it's insurmountable. And I understand you feel terrible and probably can't get a lot done."

I'm sorry. It must be hard to feel like your constantly starting over with the cleaning--even after all our work this weekend, it still doesn't feel like enough.

Is there anything I can do to help?

HER:
No, it just seems like I'm never going to be done and I'm so tired of it all.

YOU:
I know you are. And I appreciate you working so hard on all of it. You are a wonderful wife and mother. I love you, and I will support you however I can.

****

See? You listen, understand, empathize and appreciate.

I promise you, she will feel better, and will likely be able to tackle the problem.

I can do that.

But internally, my taker is pointing out that in saying we accomplished nothing, she's judging the work I did. And my taker doesn't want to sacrifice.

I understand she doesn't need my opinion, but I feel like I need to say something. Perhaps what I really need is a way to let her know I feel judged? But even then, I'm fearful the answer is again to just stifle my opinion.

The advice and the analogy are very good, though; thank you. Please don't interpret my last message as anything other than appreciation, because what you said is going to be a big help for me.

I just still feel like I'm missing a piece, though.

Markos, I have to say you are doing a lot better on communicating.... In this conversation, you did a pretty darn good job in the beginning unitl you went into "Fix-It" mode. First and foremost, she doesn't want to be fixed, taught, or preached at and I don't believe that's your intention but that's how it comes across. When you say "if it were me I" I hear, "why don't you just do it because if I were home I would".

"""And I'm trying to share my opinion. I really don't feel like I'm wrong for having a differing opinion."""

No you are not WRONG for having a differing opinion but sometimes it's best to keep that opinion to yourself.

"""I'm not demanding she do anything."""

No you're not but I can sure see how she would interpret it as you are.

"""Or am I just supposed to shut up and never have an opinion? I'm getting really tired of that. I don't think it's a long-term solution to anything.


Exactly, she just wanted to share her feelings with you. Again, she wasn't looking for a solution, didn't want to be taught anything or preached at, she simply wanted to share her feelings with you. Validate those feelings and give her props for the work that she has already done.


I think you do, but it's tough. A messy house is a big deal to me and I've had to keep an opinion or two to myself on this matter.....lol..... And I've gotten creative on how to get some things done by being willing and showing that I will do the work myself. My wife and I have busy lives. The things that bug me (i.e. dishes in the sink) don't bug her. And the things that bug her (i.e. laundry piling up in that basement) don't bug me as much. So where's the win-win in it? I've discovered that if I do the dishes 9 times out of 10, she'll put them away. Also, if I do the laundry and bring the baskets upstairs, she'll fold it and put it away. We have hardwood floors throughout our main level, my wife loves a clean floor but hates to clean it. I could care less about a clean floor but hate clutter in out front room. So every Tuesday I tell her I'm going to do the floors tonight after the kids go to bed and ask her if she could pick up the front room.

I tell you these things because I know running a house is tough for either party. We've been successful at breaking down the chores and actually the funny thing is, we've never communicated about it......lol.... One person can make the changes. If I told my wife HOW to do it, dude, I'd be on the couch lickety split...lol....

I think I get it now.

You want to feel like what you did this weekend matters... THat she appreciates it and it made a difference.

One thing: She probably wouldnt' have talked to you about it if she didn't feel like you are on her side. In other words, she felt supported by you and expected you to understand.

So that's good news.

Also, I think at some point, you could ask her, "Did it help at all when we worked together this weekend?" If she's feeling supported and cared for her, answer will undoubtedly be Yes...

And after yes, she'll say something like "But it just doesn't seem to matter how hard we work, I'm never done."

And you say something like "Boy, you must really be frustrated by all of this. I'm so sorry this is such a burden for you."

Because at the end of the day, it isn't really about you, or what you did this weekend. It's about her... right now... in this moment... and she's overwhelmed by her feelings.

Try to remember that.

You're a good husband, Markos.

Let me ask you this..... Do you feel that she is judging you with malace? I mean seriously, where is the malace? If you think she's striking out to intentionally cause pain upon you then by all means say something but if you're simply butt hurt because of her feelings the let that stuff go.

Telly is right on the mark, Markos...

And you don't stifle your opinion...your Taker was addressing your DJ...that she has the power to wipe out YOUR stuff...when she was talking about herself, sir. Just her. Her feelings and POV.

That may feel like she's excluding YOUR feelings, your POV and rejection of your contributions.

She didn't. She wasn't. You sure experienced her doing that.

She was grappling and shared it with you. Hurrah!

You wanted to fix her feelings...you wanted to share how you felt (super great after tackling all that)...share it anyway. Not because of her feelings...because they are yours and you're worth knowing.

Confirm or clarify...you assumed you heard her. I don't think you heard all of what she was communicating...then again, DH and I just had this conversation again this weekend, too...how after a couple of decades, we still have to re-accept that there are endless dishes, clothes, all the processes in life. We want to rebel, not do, wish harder that once we got 'er done, she'd stay done.



This is intimacy statements...not reality...not changing to doing...let's you know she didn't experience the same feelings resulting from your weekend actions. Doesn't mean you did it wrong or it was discounted...can just mean that doing together does increase her desire to be intimate with you and share even a childish state of mind.

"Yeah, I know. It sucks." LOL Didn't suck for you...so don't say that. You CAN relate though because there was a time when you thought (This is STUPID) to keep redoing redoing redoing...and then you didn't. You accepted. You are still in acceptance and she hit rejection...what if she wanted to have all the DS stuff done because she really wanted to play with you instead, for those hours of catching up on DS?

Ask her for creative ways to play while doing DS together (competition, word games, treasure hunts, racing up or down stairs to deliver clothes, singing, etc.). One thing about being in our childish selves at times, they excel at playful fun, where we connect most honestly, and we bond, bond, bond).

Again...see where you reached in and felt her do something to what is just yours...your pride of accomplishment isn't diminished because she doesn't respond the way you want, or KEEP responding the way you want. Be prepared for more intimacy...be SAFE (highest goal) to be shared with (and fixing, rejecting, taking her response about you and your actions isn't safe)...so you guys can move to speaking instead of emailing, 'k?

LA

Thanks, guys; I'm reading through everything slowly and carefully.

For the record, just to give a little more of my own emotional context, the state of the house doesn't bother me per se. Nor does personally doing a lot of housework myself. What does bother me is things like feeling like I'm blamed for the state of the house, or feeling like my wife is failing to meet my emotional needs because of the state of the house, or feeling like my wife allows my own work on the house to be promptly undone by herself or the children, or feeling like things I've done are unappreciated.

Basically, if my wife is feeling emotionally connected to me, I'm pretty much happy with the house no matter what as long as I can get into each room. When she is disconnected from me, though, she starts to act in ways that trigger me becoming upset and irritable, and then things start to matter, not because I want them done personally, but because my natural feeling is "If this is bothering you so much ... take care of it!"

Now that's very judgmental, and that is a worst-of-times feeling from me. All I was feeling this morning was "If I provide a different perspective, maybe she'll feel encouraged to take care of the living room and then feel good that she got the job done." There have been times when either one of us has said "I'm discouraged because this looks like it'll take forever to do," and the other one has said "I think it's probably really just a five minute job, as long as we're not perfectionists; let's try it and see." And when the job is done, the formerly-discouraged teammate is grateful to have a supportive spouse who encouraged him or her to just take care of it.

That's where I thought I was going this morning. And I was more confident I was going there because I thought I was being supportive and validating her feelings before sharing my own opinion.

It's never really a good idea (and especially not over e-mail) to get into "action" mode with your wife when she is feeling discouraged.

It probably works best when the two of you are doing something TOGETHER, right? THen the "let's try it for 5 minutes" has some impact, because your presence and enthusiasm can carry her.

Markos, I know this is counter intuitive... but the more you can simply support her and validate her, and empathize and reflect to her... the more interested she will likely be in meeting your needs. Eventually, she may well express more and more appreciation of you and the way you take care of her.

You will come to be GRATEFUL that all she really needs is your emotional support. Right now, you're seeing her unhappiness as an obstacle to your happiness as a couple. But working through her feelings with her, is a PATH to your happiness as a couple.

It may take a while, though. SHe will probably need to see your ability demonstrated consistently and over time before the well of love overflows. :-)

This could be the greatest investment of time you and effort ever make in your marriage, Markos.

Fwiw, You're not doing anything wrong, and your intentions are good.

It's just not going to get you where you want to be. You want to be her best, most supportive friend--the most necessary and important person in her life.

You will do that by learning to be listen to her. :-)

Okay, here is another one. Background: my sister, my brother, and I all have children who share a common birthday. Sister hasn't been talking to anyone in the family for the last six months or so. Meanwhile, my wife is extremely upset at my family and doesn't want to see them right now. We want the kids to have a relationship with their grandparents, so I take them out there once a month or so. Long-term I need to say something to my parents to see if I can get them to start acting in a way more pleasing to my wife, but right now I don't want to make a move since my wife and I can't get on the same page about our own relationship.

My brother's wife sent me an emailed invitation to come to dinner at their house for an upcoming weekend and celebrate the three birthdays together. This would be the day after our anniversary.

So:


No, turns out she's not "just" curious. She's got feelings about it, and she's not telling me about them at this point.





A little later:







Later:









Almost immediately after:

Waitaminute! This is a bombshell. We talked a little bit last week about what we were going to do for our anniversary. No firm plans, yet, but it certainly wasn't left at "nothing." We just never finished the discussion.

Meanwhile, the last I checked, it wasn't important to her to celebrate things on the actual date. In fact, just a few years ago, she became the first one of us to ever forget our anniversary. We celebrated a few days earlier, then she made plans on the actual date and came back to her hometown and spent the day with her sisters. I was left home alone, slightly lonely but not upset, since we'd already celebrated our anniversary. It wasn't until that day when she left that she realized she was leaving me on our anniversary; she'd completely forgotten it was that day, since we'd already celebrated.

So, here I am, trying to operate on the same assumptions, and all I can see is that it looks like the rule is it's okay for her to spend our anniversary with her sisters, but not okay for me to spend a couple of hours with my family on a day that isn't even our anniversary.

Plus, now I can't even brainstorm. I'm in trouble for even suggesting a possibility she doesn't like. Even though I specifically mentioned I wasn't quite comfortable with the possibility. How can we negotiate if my suggestions might be unknown rules violations like this?



Later:

I feel like the whole conversation was just walking me down into a trap.