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RidicSit #2329846 02/26/10 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RidicSit
And every time I do ( say anything or mention her), he turns it around on me, I feel panicked and confused, and then he storms out with his bag.

We can use this. hurray
We can turn this to your advantage.
We remove the "panicked & confused" BW, and replace her with a "self assured and focused" woman.
We thusly turn him into "panicked and confused".

See how this works?

Have you consulted an attorney in your area?
I would put this HIGH on your "to do" list.



If you live in the USA, which state?


RidicSit #2329849 02/26/10 03:19 PM
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My kids are 14 to 7 in age.

All healthy and well functioning?

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I am trying very, very hard to see it. If you knew me IRL, you'd be shocked at how I'm handling this. This isn't me. I'm not like this. I don't take crap.



Thanks for all the support along the way.
I wish you all well. I'm outta here.
Peace.
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Originally Posted by Pepperband
Quote
My kids are 14 to 7 in age.

All healthy and well functioning?

Absolutely.


Thanks for all the support along the way.
I wish you all well. I'm outta here.
Peace.
RidicSit #2329852 02/26/10 03:21 PM
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Yes, I've consulted with an attorney, but have not retained one.

I live in a no-fault state. But have very carefully protected myself financially since we've been married.


Thanks for all the support along the way.
I wish you all well. I'm outta here.
Peace.
RidicSit #2329854 02/26/10 03:22 PM
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Are you "up" for organizing a blow-out intervention?
With yourself, OW Dad, and your kids? Possibly OW sister too?


It's a bold move.

In my experience, the planning of something this BIG will also function as a confidence-builder, for you.



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Yes. I am very up for it. I can't keep going on like this. It's no good for anyone. Even WH.


Thanks for all the support along the way.
I wish you all well. I'm outta here.
Peace.
RidicSit #2329861 02/26/10 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by RidicSit
Yes. I am very up for it. I can't keep going on like this. It's no good for anyone. Even WH.

Okey-dokey.

Start planning the "guest list".
Talk to the other adults, and tell them what you plan to do.
Tell your kids the day of ... to spare them the agony of keeping a secret.
Ask the adults to get onboard.
Tell them it will be done in your home.
Be sure to tell the OW's family that this MUST be a secret for this to be effective.

Then, look for a date that is advantageous to meet your needs.
Think about it and let us know.
I think it should be within the next 2 weeks, or you might just go nutz and be unable to contain the lovebusters.

The rest of the intervention can be modified, depending on what happens.

I suggest everyone, kids too, have a short, 2-3 minute speech prepared.
Stating how the adultery is affecting them.
How much pain the adultery is causing.
How much they want the adultery to end.

It is my opinion that WH will likely STORM OUT, vowing that "You are killing any hope for this to work." blah blah blah...
This would be just fine.
Let him get his lazy-cake-eating-butt out of your home.

The only downside of this is how it will effect your kids.
Have some sort of back-up plan for supporting them.

I'd have a bag already packed for him.
Inside, a Plan B letter.
(We can help you write one)

Once he leaves, he's OUT (unless your attorney advises otherwise) until the adultery is OVER.


What do you think, so far?


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*link* to where this quote is found


Quote
Children learn from their parents. In fact parents are the most influential guides in a child's life. Many will see their mannerisms and phrases being used by their child. But parents are more than models for mannerisms and phrases. They are models for crucial aspects of life: a work ethic, intimate relationships, friendships, domestic skills, communication, and problem-solving skills. Lessons about life are being taught when a parent has an affair -- lessons that they usually don't want their child to learn.

The first lesson a child learns is,

How to deal with emotional pain.
Children whose parents are experiencing marital conflict feel many emotions -- guilt, confusion, loneliness, sadness, fear, worry, abandonment, and many other excruciating feelings. When a child is losing the security base of a strong marriage they are bombarded with pain.

So how is a child supposed to soothe their pain and the feeling of helplessness? And how does a child gain control in an uncontrollable situation? Out of the need to defend against these uncomfortable feelings comes a new rule about life --

If a problem arises it is better to deny that there is a problem than to face it and feel the pain.
Julie came to believe this rule. She would think,

"This is how married people lived. Nothing was wrong about this situation. There really isn't a problem here. Just look the other way."
A child can defend themselves from the bombardment of emotional pain through the defenses of denial and justification.

But this new rule did not help teach Julie how to solve crucial problems that would face her later in life. Instead of facing and solving those problems, she would deny their very existence and look the other way as it would grow and eventually overwhelm her.

Julie was also being taught a second lesson,

How to lie.
In order to maintain a secret second life, wayward spouses need to keep up the deceit. After Julie started living with her mom, she was asked not to talk to dad about Josh. She was further instructed to tell dad that she hadn't seen him. Mom explained that it is better that dad just doesn't know "because we don't want to make him upset." Julie remembered how upset dad was when he found out about Josh. She didn't want him to get angry at mom. So with this newly learned habit of lying for mom, came a second rule about life --

Lying is allowed if it spares another from pain or spares yourself from punishment.
Another rule from this lesson on deceit is that

Lying is allowed when it protects your privacy. Everyone has a right to privacy in their life, even if it involves hurting people behind their back.
Julie was told over and over that it was not dad's business to know what mom does. This was meant to justify the fact that mom was lying to dad. Although Julie's mom was a very honest and open person before the affair, mom became quite an expert at deceit and privacy. Julie was watching her model every step of the way.

A third crucial lesson is,

How to be thoughtless -- doing what you please regardless of how it affects other people.
Julie would learn how to take advantage of her friends and family when there was something in it for her. She would learn how to disregard others' suffering because she had a right to enjoy life to the fullest. All wayward spouses hurt the people they care about the most. Wayward spouses rationalize that they had to look out for themselves which is why they developed the relationship outside of their marriage in the first place. Their actions seem to benefit themselves in the short term, but it has disastrous effects on members of their family.

Marital discord is hard enough on children. It undermines the basic security needed for them to learn and grow. But to add infidelity to a troubled marriage turns a problem into a disaster. Parents who have an affair are teaching their children very important rules that are likely to be followed for the rest of their lives. It ultimately not only undermines their marital relationships but it also seriously hurts their own chances for success in most other areas of life.

Parents have a responsibility to teach their children the importance of honesty and the importance of thoughtfulness -- considering other people's feeling when decisions are being made. To do otherwise is not only terribly irresponsible, but may tend to perpetuate the learning of these rules of deceit and thoughtlessness for generations to come.


Having your young children take part in this (planned) intervention, empowers them, and teaches them DIFFERENT moral/life lessons ...
their father's careless & selfish & foolish adultery is teaching your children lessons you do not want them to learn.



RidicSit #2329901 02/26/10 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by RidicSit
Sugar- You're right in that I have proof in the things you highlighted.

You don't need "proof" to show how miserable and unhappy YOU, H, and children are.

Quote
But he denies that he has any further contact with her right now, and I cannot prove it- other than his suspicious behaviors.

BassAkwards.
WH needs to prove TO YOU he is not seeing her.
NOT the other way around.
This ain't no damn court of law.
He's not "innocent" until "proven" guilty.

He had the A.
The burden of "proof of innocence" is on him.
100%


Quote
I know his phone number is the same and that hers still works. And he's told me four different stories about that, mainly blaming the phone company. Which I don't believe. And he knows I don't believe.

See what you are doing here?
You are trying to reason with a liar.
Stop doing this.


Quote
I have no physical access to his phone, or the records, and I am not in his car, ever. He sleeps with his keys. And his phone.

'Nuff said?
He is not willing to "prove he is innocent" ...
What innocent man sleeps with his phone and his keys? doh2 MrRollieEyes


Quote
I know. I cannot believe I've done this. And let it get to this.

1. No more discussing OW or adultery with WH. That will not work.

2. You need to "woman up" ... and do it now.

Many prayers for you and your kids.
A few for WH as well.

OW? ... I'm not ready to pray for her just yet. stickout

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Originally Posted by Pepperband
OW? ... I'm not ready to pray for her just yet. stickout
I could stretch to praying for her.

It wouldn't be for nice things, though.

Last edited by SugarCane; 02/26/10 06:16 PM.

BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
SugarCane #2330012 02/26/10 08:21 PM
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Rid,

I have had some experience with keyloggers. When you have time, look into eBlaster. Just 'google' it and you will see the site. Cost about $100 but it works excellent. Almost impossible to detect, unless he loads a program that specifically hunts for keyloggers. It doesn't show up anywhere on the computer that can be seen. Look into it.

Be brave. I'm pulling for you also!!


-SOL
_SOL #2330017 02/26/10 08:35 PM
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Thanx SOL that was the one I was thinking about. I couldn't remember the name.

Rid- I know that you "know". You just need to see it for yourself. You have been gaslighted for so long that you started to believe your WH. You need this to KNOW that YOU ARE RIGHT.

WARNING IT WILL HURT YOU. DON'T REACT TO IT. COME HERE AND VENT. this is really important.

I reacted and got more pain and frustration. I even helped POSOW by pushing WH towards her to save her from BIG BAD WIFE. PPM Syndrome(Poor Poor ME-stolen from my BIL)


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

“Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.”
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
Scotland #2330165 02/27/10 10:59 AM
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Thank you, Limbo.I will look at Eblaster. I am not super computer stealthy, but my dad is, and I know my dad will help load and do whatever it is I need to do on my computer to catch him.

Scotland- that is exactly right. I know that I know, but the galighting messes with a person. And the sense of knowing what's real. I need to see it in front of me ( and I know it'll be right there).

I won't react in front of him. I am very good at hiding it until I need to use it. I promise I'll come here and vent here, instead of on him.

Sugar- as for the praying for her? I wish for karma. I hope someday, she's married and working hard on her marriage, and this happens to her.


Thanks for all the support along the way.
I wish you all well. I'm outta here.
Peace.
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I called the dad- no answer yet, but got the voicemail identifying him.

I didn't leave a message- would prefer to talk directly to him.

Will call again later today.

I am going to invite his parents, her dad, sis and brother. My children, and my parents.

The only one who won't be there is OW. I am going to do it on a day when she's working ( I know where she works).


Thanks for all the support along the way.
I wish you all well. I'm outta here.
Peace.
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And Pepper- you're right. And that's just what my therapist said. I keep trying to use logic with a liar.

It's not particularly useful.

I am going to need help on the Plan B letter. This needs to go forward. Just this morning- he was on the phone, and I asked him about the call ( just- who's that?) and he flipped out and started saying "Who was your last phone call with, huh?".

I answered, smiled, and left the house to go get my coffee. Now he's mad.

I can't keep up anymore. I can maintain the plan A-ish behaviors, knowing that there's relief on the way, but I realized today just how very exhausted I am.


Thanks for all the support along the way.
I wish you all well. I'm outta here.
Peace.
RidicSit #2330212 02/27/10 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by RidicSit
Just this morning- he was on the phone, and I asked him about the call ( just- who's that?) and he flipped out and started saying "Who was your last phone call with, huh?".

Just a note.
This is so much like addiction that the addict becomes highly irritable and aggressive when anyone questions what he is doing.
Sad, but so,so predictable.




Quote
I can't keep up anymore. I can maintain the plan A-ish behaviors, knowing that there's relief on the way, but I realized today just how very exhausted I am.

Yeah. I sensed your exhaustion.
How are the kids doing?

This is where you plan A your WH ... by plan A-ing your kids.
Do lots of FAMILY fun activities.
Invite WH to join.
Expect him to say "No." (even expect him to be grumpy that you asked)
He will remember these things when all he has is his lonely self, and needy & immature OW to fill his time.

So when you can't imagine Plan A to WH directly, do it indirectly ... make your kids as joyful as possible.
Fill the house with warmth and laughter.
hug



RidicSit #2330224 02/27/10 12:50 PM
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sample plan B letters

Quote
...a somewhat generic Plan B draft...
Basic elements of a Plan B letter:
1. Make it a love letter (apologies & how you can/will correct)
2. No lovebusters
3. Make "NO CONTACT" clear
4. Make unambiguous the "condition" of return to marital relationships
5. Limit references to OP
6. Plan out the logistics (as best as possible)


Quote
Dearest <spouse>,

[preliminary words]
It is with a heavy heart that I write this letter to you. It is truly sad to see what has happened to us and to our marriage. The decision I now make is out of a necessity to spare what I can for love of you.

[apologizing words]
I have made many mistakes in the past and cannot change those mistakes or take them back. <list them here&#65533; be honest&#65533; but don't knock yourself down&#65533; limit the number to the top 3&#65533;>

[corrective steps]
What I have been able to do is recognize those errors in judgment and action or inaction; and I have learned from them so much. The depth of my understanding, of those failings, has taken me to honestly and with great effort to take steps that will ensure that they will not happen again. <list the ENs that you can fulfill and how you will do this&#65533; again be honest&#65533; and limit the number to the top 3 or 4> <If you know you can honestly apply the POJA&#65533; say you can and how you will do it>

[acknowledgment of environment of marriage]
I am truly sorry for helping to create and sustain an environment that has made your affair possible and allowed it to continue. I too had a responsibility to meet your most important needs; and by lacking the right judgment, I did little to aid efforts in building and growing our love for each other. The importance of <spouses needs>, I lost sight of. Now I know I am more than able to not just meet those needs, but to be lovingly enthusiastic in the doing.

[rationalization for movement to Plan B]
&#65533;I have had a most difficult time in the last <several months, years&#65533;>. There has been pain and hurt in the time spent learning to mend my failings. The pain and hurt, even though causing me great anguish, has let me know what strength I really possess. The dual nature of hurt and strength makes a conflict that now leads me to an inescapable conclusion. This conclusion, I will hold firm to, as I have learned my strength will only be in my resolve.

[the main element of Plan B]
<spouse>, the conclusion I write of, is that&#65533;Until you end your relationship with <OP>, I can no longer see you or in anyway communicate with you! The continued pain has become an unhealthy part of my learning to be the best possible <wife/husband> for the one I love.

[punishment issue]
<spouse>, this decision I make, I do not make lightly. It is not meant as a measure to punish you. It is simply meant as a way to no longer drain the love I have had for you, even the kind of love I had for you during the time of the affair.

[if the WS knows about "Plan B"]
You know about Plan B. It is not a gimmick. It is an honest effort to retain a love that you do not see right now. In time, I hope you will see that love; but I am not na&#65533;ve, and I realize you may never accept that gift of love again.

[reiteration of condition and logistics of Plan B]
As soon as you can fully, permanently and unconditionally separate from <OP>, and are willing to commit to measures to verify that separation, I am willing to do whatever it takes to start a full recovery of our marriage.

Until then, I will not be able to <list of actions&#65533;
avoid seeing you&#65533;
avoid all communications of any form&#65533;
offer no financial support&#65533;
whatever else&#65533;>

In the best interest of those involved, I will <list of concerns&#65533;
expect legal requirements to be upheld&#65533;
minimize impact to the children&#65533; and offer acceptable and extraordinary visitation rights&#65533;
eliminate any negative explanations to family and friends
whatever else&#65533;>

<Work out logistics>&#65533;
<How is "contact" to occur in "emergency" situations.>
<Frequency of telephone contact (if any due to children)>
<Frequency of e-mail contact (if any in joint "planning")>
<Who will act as intermediaries>

[what the future would/could hold (post Plan B)]
I want us, not me alone and not you alone, but us to rebuild our marriage. We need to build a new lifestyle. Everything can be done to make us both happy. I know it is possible for our marriage to flourish, and have no more separations in body or spirit. I want to be your best friend and a <wife/husband> that any <man/woman> would be proud to have as a spouse.

[any other endearments of special parting thoughts]
-I want to grow old with you.
-When I said &#65533;I DO,&#65533; I made a promise in front of God, you, our family and friends for life.
-I want to be your <wife/husband>, your friend, and your lover.
-I loved you more that life itself while we were together and I continue to do so as I write this.

[final reiteration of the main element of Plan B]
As soon as you are willing to separate completely from your &#65533;friendship&#65533; with <OP>, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

Your loving spouse, <and any other endearment that is personal and touching>

<me>
------------------end--------------------

I hope this helps...
...I did borrow heavily from [b]Rutger[b]'s sample...



Jim

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Remember, Plan B letter is NOT a list of lovebusters.

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Ridic, your thread title is incorrect.
You HAVE a spine.
What you needed was a PLAN !!!!

Go get'em Tiger !


hurray

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