I am so grateful to have found this place. I've been reading anonymously for 8 months while I try and work this out, and I just need help. Or encouragement. Or something.
I've been married 16 years. Four kids. My husband, 38, has been having an affair with a now 24 year old for the last three years, and apparently gas lighting me, along the way. Let me go into therapy. Let me take meds ( though he tried very hard to talk me out of them- now I know why), let me think it was my issue, and that my intuition was out of whack. In reality? My intuition was absolutely perfect. I just let him talk me out of honoring it. The list of what I now recognize as the truth is embarrassing to me. It�s overwhelming.
I got confirmation when I got an email from the OW�s father. He hates my husband, obviously, and had tried, several times, to confront my husband, apparently even coming to my house. My husband denied like a crazy person at the time, and told me it was a disgruntled business contact out to get him.
I knew it wasn�t true ( the denials), but got him to admit to a friendship. Asked him to have no further contact with her. A month later- it blew up, when I found he was carrying around medical appointments for her in his wallet ( she�s got several pretty major health issues), and that he was listed as her contact.
I found out that he had introduced some of our children to her , and brought her to his parents� house- on several occasions ( my in laws? Didn�t think telling me he was carting around a young girl- and man- she does look like a very young girl, was a big deal). He was paying for her cell phone.
I took the kids and left him. He panicked. I told his parents. I told his siblings. My parents. And people at work ( he was using them as cover stories).
We negotiated for a few days, and I came home. I asked for proof of no contact, her cell phone cut off, his number changed, and IC for him ( he has depressive issues, moodiness- it�s hereditary- his dad is a functional alcoholic to cope with it).
It�s almost March. He still has the same phone number. He has yelled at me for calling the OW ( her phone still works), and left the house, always to come back contrite, apologetic, and begging for another chance.
My therapist has told me that I have been enabling this behavior by being too damn nice. That I don�t want the conflict or him to leave me, so I accept a ridiculous situation. We are working on this- because in general, this has only happened to me in two relationships- my mother ( who is a borderline personality), and my husband, who is the best blame shifter in history, I think.
I need encouragement. I need guts. I need the strength to call him out and kick him out, until he gets the help he needs, and if he doesn�t, then for good. My kids don�t respect him much. I don�t respect him much. Hell, I don�t respect me much
I am not sure what kind of details y'all need- I'll answer any questions you might have.
I can give you examples of how he blameshifts. I can tell you abnout the days where he stays in bed almost all day. I can tell you how he always finds a reason to go out at night, and if I try to go with him, the panic that ensues.
Or what a good person he thinks she is. Or the pages of texts I have from him calling himself a horrible person in one breath, and the luckiest man alive to have married me in the next.
Or the jokes he makes about me finding a boyfriend. Or the outright infidelity jokes he makes.
Some of the stuff I could tell you wouldn't surprise you, but they are really embarrassing to me if I think too hard.
You can see by my signature line that my H's affair was long-running. I had about 3 D days after which he gaslighted me that the affair was over. On the 4th, I told him I was leaving, and he left his job instead, so that he could no longer travel to Belgium where OW lives. He still maintained telephone contact for 6 months at work until I found MB and exposed to OW's husband.
My voluntary paralysis about the affair led to my near emotional breakdown, drinking and my neglect of my kids, and still the evidence of this before his eyes did not stop my H's affair.
Nobody can make you strong. We can encourage you, but you're going to have to find the strength to remove yourself from this affair. You can't change your H and make him stop having an affair, but you can remove yourself from the environment. Only YOU are stopping yourself from doing this.
Welcome to MB.
Im not a pro, but it looks like you are doing the right things. I suffer from Nice Guy syndrome, and you have a lot more guts than I ever did at sticking to what is best.
Just prepare yourself that he will get angry and yell and scream and have fits that you are interfearing with his affair. In reality you are fighting for your marriage, and it looks like you are doing the right things.
Keep your cool, stay in control, and be assertive sticking to your guns with what has to be done. Avoid all love busters, which if you are genuinly nice like me it is easy, and comes naturally.
I guess now is the time to be kind, thoughtful, but still look after your needs. You do not have to do anything you don't want to, especially for a husband who is having an affair.
I'm still lacking the nerve to cut off the cell phone, finances, and internet from my WW.
Anyhow that is my plan for growing a back bone, and I want to offer it to you.
Thanks for replying.
I know you're right that no one can make me strong. I just need to be the person I am in every other relationship in my marriage, in terms of not putting up with this.
And for some reason, I am struggling with this. My therapist is great. My friends are great. I know I am a confident and well loved woman.
But in this area, he's undercut my confidence, and I feel like I am competing against a vacuous young girl, and I've been babysitting for him while he runs around having an affair.
If I confront him, he denies it. Tells me I'm living in the past, we'll never move forward, and I'm not trying. Then he usually runs out for a few days.
I know it's manipulation. I can see it. If I were my friends- I'd be pinching me so hard right now there'd be bruises to tell me to get out of this.
Im not a pro, but it looks like you are doing the right things. I suffer from Nice Guy syndrome, and you have a lot more guts than I ever did at sticking to what is best.
Just prepare yourself that he will get angry and yell and scream and have fits that you are interfearing with his affair. In reality you are fighting for your marriage, and it looks like you are doing the right things.
Keep your cool, stay in control, and be assertive sticking to your guns with what has to be done. Avoid all love busters, which if you are genuinly nice like me it is easy, and comes naturally.
I guess now is the time to be kind, thoughtful, but still look after your needs. You do not have to do anything you don't want to, especially for a husband who is having an affair.
I'm still lacking the nerve to cut off the cell phone, finances, and internet from my WW.
Anyhow that is my plan for growing a back bone, and I want to offer it to you.
Do you struggle with the cutoff because you know it'll cause a hurricane? That's how I feel.
Dear RidicSit:
educate yourself with everything on this site. read all the material available to you here. then maybe you can begin to make some of decisions you seem to be afraid of.
so sorry you are here, this forum is a wonderful place to vent and receive encouragement, to receive opinions and get the benefit of alot of different experiences.
keep reading and the vets will way in and hopefully give you some options. my experience is not yours, so i am hesitent to give an opinion. but please know that i feel your pain, and i know you are hurting.
What I did was I blocked facebook, her primary tool for contact. She still has contact with the OM, and it has caused her to shut down completly from me. The hardest part was seeing her sit there and miss her lover. Strangely it made me sad for her, but I'm not going to let her guilt me into lifting any of her blocks.
I will expose on Monday. I just don't know what to expect then since I have forcibly cut off her primary contact with the OM. It might be hell for the next week, but I must prepare myself.
But in this area, he's undercut my confidence, and I feel like I am competing against a vacuous young girl, and I've been babysitting for him while he runs around having an affair.
If I confront him, he denies it. Tells me I'm living in the past, we'll never move forward, and I'm not trying. Then he usually runs out for a few days.
I know it's manipulation. I can see it.
Please stop confronting him or trying to get him to admit to his affair. You know he is having it, he knows he is and so no-one needs to prove anything. Stop discussing it with him.
Act on the basis that the affair is a fact, and take action to remove yourself from it without asking for his help. You have lived with it for too long already, and you have already used the Plan A tools of exposure and trying to meet his needs. Dr Harley says that women should only try Plan A for about 4 weeks if the affair does not end, because it takes a serious toll on their mental health, from which it is hard to recover. You need to remove yourself from the affair environment, and from contact with your H, to protect yourself from further abuse.
I'm afraid that the advice that you should continue what you are doing is wrong. You are feeding you H's cake-eating desires and making yourself ill. Your H won't end the affair while you continue to accommodate him.
Please read Dr Harley's article
What are Plan A and Plan B?, especially the details about separating yourself from an abusive spouse (Plan B).
I have to go out, but I'll look in here later.
Thanks Sugar,
I didn't realize that she may have been in Plan A for so long that it was actually hurting her mentally. I struggle with the line when Plan A should be turned into plan B, and the events that have to take place move between states. You are correct that staying hurting where she is at is wrong advice.
So I guess what you need Ridic is a spine to kick the WH out?
You kick a person out without evidence? as in- right now, on this day, I know you did this?
That's what I struggle with. He is very, very good at turning it around.
An example of what I think he's doing- going out at night to call her. Says he's going to store. I offer to go with. He says no, freaks out a little.
I calmly accept it. When he leaves, on the advice of my therapist, I say, after touching him on the arm, "It must be very hard to be in your head. It must really feel bad in there to need to act like this".
He goes out- comes back, acts like a lovey dovey guy.
Sugar- is there a place I can read your whole story? Find out what you did?
Hi Redic. I'm so very sorry for the events that bring you here, but please know that you are in THE BEST place to help you through this.
He is having his cake and eating it too, with you and the OW, and he will continue doing it indefinitely, if left up to him.
If I were in your position, I'd go into stealth-snoop mode. Place a digital voice recorder in his car (hidden), and you'll soon have your proof. GPS his car. Keylogger on the computer. There's a spying software that you could put on his cell, depending upon the kind of phone he has.
Oh, and if you do go into snoop mode, NEVER NEVER NEVER reveal your sources. There's ways around getting him to confess w/o revealing how you know things.
Here's a breakdown of Plan A (meeting his EN's, while getting the affair stopped):
The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband:
The Carrot of Plan A
Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.
Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.
Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.
Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.
Stop lovebusting behaviors.
Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.
Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.
Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.
Offering forgiveness and understanding.
The stick of Plan A
Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.
Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.
Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.
Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.
Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.
Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.
Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.
Please stop confronting him or trying to get him to admit to his affair. You know he is having it, he knows he is and so no-one needs to prove anything. Stop discussing it with him.
This is good advice and where I'm at now. I'm tired of the snooping, discovering followed by a day of anxiety and no appetite, then the unsatisfying confrontation. Now I just assume the contact is ongoing until she proves to me differently. In my situation I'm 100% right and it avoids a lot of the up and down rollercoaster ride.
Ridic, you asked whether you should kick someone out, just like that with no evidence.
I thought you had all the evidence you needed. I thought your evidence was this:
I got confirmation when I got an email from the OW�s father. He hates my husband, obviously, and had tried, several times, to confront my husband, apparently even coming to my house. My husband denied like a crazy person at the time, and told me it was a disgruntled business contact out to get him.
I knew it wasn�t true ( the denials), but got him to admit to a friendship. Asked him to have no further contact with her. A month later- it blew up, when I found he was carrying around medical appointments for her in his wallet ( she�s got several pretty major health issues), and that he was listed as her contact.
I found out that he had introduced some of our children to her , and brought her to his parents� house- on several occasions ( my in laws? Didn�t think telling me he was carting around a young girl- and man- she does look like a very young girl, was a big deal). He was paying for her cell phone.
I took the kids and left him. He panicked. I told his parents. I told his siblings. My parents. And people at work ( he was using them as cover stories).
We negotiated for a few days, and I came home. I asked for proof of no contact, her cell phone cut off, his number changed, and IC for him ( he has depressive issues, moodiness- it�s hereditary- his dad is a functional alcoholic to cope with it).
It�s almost March. He still has the same phone number. He has yelled at me for calling the OW ( her phone still works), and left the house, always to come back contrite, apologetic, and begging for another chance.
I thought when you said "begging for another chance" that this was his admitting to the affair.
I think that you are in a position to decide that you have enough proof and will act accordingly to protect yourself. However, if you wish to hold on, waiting for more proof, you need to improve your spying methods, as others have written.
Digital voice recorders are relatively cheap to buy and easy to hide in a room where your H might have a telephone conversation, or in his car. You could also GPS his car, and try to install spyware on his phone and PC. If you can afford it, and you want a quick result, you could hire a PI, who could find out a lot about your H's comings and goings in perhaps 3 days.
I'm not in favour of spying when it is clear that the affair is continuing. I think spying at that stage sends you round in circles and becomes a displacement activity for actually doing something about the affair. I think it is degrading for you to feel you have to justify protecting yourself against abuse that you already know is taking place. I've done this, and I wouldn't do it again. I would leave it to my H to prove that he has ended the abusive behaviour. I would concentrate on protecting myself and my children. If he is innocent now, and wants the marriage to continue, he will show you by his actions that he is protecting you and the marriage. If he flounces off in a huff because you DARE to suspect him, when you've already had to leave your home once, and continue to this day to suffer gaslighting and rages, then he is not interested in protecting you or his marriage.
Your conduct from today onwards should be about controlling your side of the marriage for you and your children. The affair is a reality; get yourself and children away from it.
I don't have a single thread with my own story. If you click on my name you will get a drop-down menu. Choose "view posts" and go to my first ever post on this board. It is long, and describes the affair.
Are you willing to make a bold move?
A move to shake him up?
There are no guarantees, of course, but you need to make a bold move (in my opinion) or this adultery train will continue down the same track indefinitely.
You need to make a bold derailment.
It will be "hard" emotionally.
You say you have lost respect for your WH.
Well, guess what?
Your WH has lost all respect for you!!! 
Are you aware that making a bold move will gain you some SELF respect?
Let me know.
I won't waste your time if you know you will not do a difficult, bold move.
Ridic,
You'd better take up Pep's offer of advice and do EXACTLY what she says.
"No thank you, I'm not interested" is the WRONG answer.
Sugar- You're right in that I have proof in the things you highlighted.
But he denies that he has any further contact with her right now, and I cannot prove it- other than his suspicious behaviors. I know his phone number is the same and that hers still works. And he's told me four different stories about that, mainly blaming the phone company. Which I don't believe. And he knows I don't believe.
I have no physical access to his phone, or the records, and I am not in his car, ever. He sleeps with his keys. And his phone.
I know. I cannot believe I've done this. And let it get to this.
Ridic,
You'd better take up Pep's offer of advice and do EXACTLY what she says.
"No thank you, I'm not interested" is the WRONG answer.
Actually, the only "wrong answer" is the answer that is not truthful.
I am OK with people deciding they want to keep their status quo.
For whatever reason.
I just like to be made aware of that fact, up front.
Pepper-
I will do whatever I need to do to go forward.
Everything I've done so far hasn't worked.
Do you struggle with the cutoff because you know it'll cause a hurricane? That's how I feel.
Sorry you are here Ridic. If you listen up and pay close attention you will get some outstanding advice.
You cannot recover your marriage when secrets still exist. If you have been lurking here for 8 months then I'm sure you know by now that your WH must have complete transperency with you. He must openly show you phone records, the phone itself, the car, email accounts, etc. His life must be an open book. This is a boundary that you have to set with him. If he is unwilling to comply then you must remove yourself from the abusive situation and get into Plan B. He who has nothing to hide hides nothing. Your WH is hiding the cell phone from you?? Major
Mindshare
LOL
Actually, the only "wrong answer" is the answer that is not truthful.
I am OK with people deciding they want to keep their status quo.
For whatever reason.
I just like to be made aware of that fact, up front. NONONONONONO!!!!! That is the wrong answer.
Repeat after me: "Ridic, sit down, shut up and listen! Then GET TO IT!"
I know, Mindshare. I know. I gave him a list of what I needed, in terms of transparency. he's given me none of it- except to call me when he's places that I already know he's at and tell me he's there.
It's when he doesn't call that I know he's up to no good.
And he uses the privacy line. Which I have explained is different than secrecy to him, but he hates it.
What I don't understand is that he knows I have her phone number, and I've called her. Why they don't change that is beyond me. I think he uses it to have aleg to stand on- like he can't possibly be doing anything bad if he;s not hiding her phone number.
Do you struggle with the cutoff because you know it'll cause a hurricane? That's how I feel.
I agree. That's why I'm here.
RidicSit-If yo have been around for a long time lurking, I am glad that you have decided to get some individual help for yourself and your M.
Pep and SC are excellent at this. Listen to their advice and do what is asked of you. There will be times that they will tell you things you may not like, but it is what you need to hear.
My sitch was A LOT like yours. I believed that my WH was having an EA. My WH told me that they were "just friends". Well, we were both WRONG.
My WH had me convinced that everything that I had was not prrof of an affair. I believed him and I believed that noone would believe me if I told them. Funny thing is, my friends were happy that I finally saw the light. How did I see that light? From people on here. I was still holding on to the hope that WH was not P with POSOW. That was until I installed a keylogger. My WH found it after 2 hours. I confronted him(not a good moment to be sure) and he still was denying it. Why? He was a cake eater.
Now what do you need to do? Listen to Pep and SC and any other vets that come on here and offer their help.
Read my thread if you can spare a few hundred hours. You will see that there is a lot of advice that will work in your sitch.
Take care.
I know, Mindshare. I know. I gave him a list of what I needed, in terms of transparency. he's given me none of it- except to call me when he's places that I already know he's at and tell me he's there.
Ok...so you set a boundary (your list) and he is crossing that boundary (non-compliance). So what are you going to do about it?
I need to kick him out over it. Or talk to him about it.
And every time I do ( say anything or mention her), he turns it around on me, I feel panicked and confused, and then he storms out with his bag.
I'm here, because I just need to really hear from other people who've done this and dealt with this, that it's okay to be angry. And it's okay to deal with him.
I can't explain myself properly. I know what the right thing is to do. But I've built my life with this man, and our family, and although I see the trigger, and I know it should be pulled, there's this part of me that is trying to keep peace.
But I'm smart enough to know that it's not really peace. And I'm the one getting hurt.
Scotland-
I wanna do a keylogger, but is there a way to hide it? That's what I worry about. Is that he'd find it immediately.
I've read bits and pieces of your story. It totally resonates.
My husband, 38, has been having an affair with a now 24 year old for the last three years,
She is a baby-maker standing by in the wings.
This is why things need to be disturbed IN A BIG WAY.
ASAP
CODE RED !
Your WH will not walk out of his adultery on his own two feet.
Your WH needs a shove.
You provide the shove.
Yes?
Dig dig dig.
He was paying for her cell phone.
Look into this.
Look waaaaaaaaaaay into the finances.I got confirmation when I got an email from the OW�s father. He hates my husband, obviously, and had tried, several times, to confront my husband, apparently even coming to my house. My husband denied like a crazy person at the time, and told me it was a disgruntled business contact out to get him.
BIG GUNS here.
The OW Dad needs to be on TeamRid
Get ahold of this man.
In person, if possible.
Invite this man to your house (unless he comes off as a nut) to confront your WH in front of yourself and your children.
I'm serious.
This is an intervention opportunity.
It must be a mutual plan that you and OW Dad construct carefully.
NO WARNING about the intervention.
Be as sweet as humanly possible for now.
Does OW have a Mom?
He's had a vasectomy, and she doesn't have a uterus. I'm not worried about babymaking.
I'm reading the rest right now.
She's living in Fear Pep. Can you bump starfish's Fear thread or add it to Ridics thread? She needs to read it.
Rid- do you need the keylogger info for you? I needed it to see the truth for what it was. I still had blinders on but this smacked them off of my face. If you do, I know that someone on here has the info on ones that cannot be found.
In the meantime, listen to Pep.
There's a mom- but she's an alcoholic and divorced from the dad. OW lives in a town where one of my husband's businesses is. Ironically- though I am from a different than where we live now, many of my relatives have moved to the town where OW is from.
It was very easy to find out a lot about her.
I can absolutely contact the father. I have his phone number, email and street address. And I know where he works.
I have it on good authority that the dad is not a nutter. But that this daughter is a handful. His other daughter has also tried to contact me, via Facebook. I ignored her, under a temporary delusion that WH was being good.
Please tell us where your WH (then 35) met OW (then 21)?
Under what circumstances did they come to know each other?
Their age difference is 14 years.
How old are your children?
Scot-
I need it for me. More than anything else, I need it for me. I need, especially after being gaslighted for so long, to see hard proof that I am right. In my head- I feel like that will give me the strength I need to take the action I have to.
I lost momentum when I took the kids, left, and then when we came home. I believed him.
I need to be that woman again.
she doesn't have a uterus.
Pepper-
He owns businesses all over the state we live in. One of them is in her hometown. She was a waitress, he was a customer. She's a sickly type- spent a lot of time in the hospital. He visited her, on a long hospitalization, and they started to bond.
I intercepted an email at around the time of this. And was accused of questioning his character. How dare I. **rolls eyes hard**
He became her champion. Her savior. She was his dumsel in distress.
My kids are 14 to 7 in age.
she doesn't have a uterus.
He was carrying an appointment sheet ( well, multiple appt sheets) for her in his wallet, as I mentioned earlier. On the notation for a particular procedure, there was a notation for special conditions-lack of uterus was notated>
I also? Am horrified that I know all of this about her. For the record.
It bothers me.
And every time I do ( say anything or mention her), he turns it around on me, I feel panicked and confused, and then he storms out with his bag.
We can turn this to your advantage.
We remove the "panicked & confused" BW, and replace her with a "self assured and focused" woman.
We thusly turn him into "panicked and confused".
See how this works?
Have you consulted an attorney in your area?
I would put this HIGH on your "to do" list.
If you live in the USA, which state?
My kids are 14 to 7 in age.
I am trying very, very hard to see it. If you knew me IRL, you'd be shocked at how I'm handling this. This isn't me. I'm not like this. I don't take crap.
My kids are 14 to 7 in age.
Absolutely.
Yes, I've consulted with an attorney, but have not retained one.
I live in a no-fault state. But have very carefully protected myself financially since we've been married.
Are you "up" for organizing a blow-out intervention?
With yourself, OW Dad, and your kids? Possibly OW sister too?
It's a bold move.
In my experience, the planning of something this BIG will also function as a confidence-builder, for you.
Yes. I am very up for it. I can't keep going on like this. It's no good for anyone. Even WH.
Yes. I am very up for it. I can't keep going on like this. It's no good for anyone. Even WH.
Start planning the "guest list".
Talk to the other adults, and tell them what you plan to do.
Tell your kids the day of ... to spare them the agony of keeping a secret.
Ask the adults to get onboard.
Tell them it will be done in your home.
Be sure to tell the OW's family that this MUST be a secret for this to be effective.
Then, look for a date that is advantageous to meet your needs.
Think about it and let us know.
I think it should be within the next 2 weeks, or you might just go nutz and be unable to contain the lovebusters.
The rest of the intervention can be modified, depending on what happens.
I suggest everyone, kids too, have a short, 2-3 minute speech prepared.
Stating how the adultery is affecting them.
How much pain the adultery is causing.
How much they want the adultery to end.
It is my opinion that WH will likely STORM OUT, vowing that "You are killing any hope for this to work." blah blah blah...
This would be just fine.
Let him get his lazy-cake-eating-butt out of your home.
The only downside of this is how it will effect your kids.
Have some sort of back-up plan for supporting them.
I'd have a bag already packed for him.
Inside, a Plan B letter.
(We can help you write one)
Once he leaves, he's OUT (unless your attorney advises otherwise) until the adultery is OVER.
What do you think, so far?
*link* to where this quote is found Children learn from their parents. In fact parents are the most influential guides in a child's life. Many will see their mannerisms and phrases being used by their child. But parents are more than models for mannerisms and phrases. They are models for crucial aspects of life: a work ethic, intimate relationships, friendships, domestic skills, communication, and problem-solving skills. Lessons about life are being taught when a parent has an affair -- lessons that they usually don't want their child to learn.
The first lesson a child learns is,
How to deal with emotional pain.
Children whose parents are experiencing marital conflict feel many emotions -- guilt, confusion, loneliness, sadness, fear, worry, abandonment, and many other excruciating feelings. When a child is losing the security base of a strong marriage they are bombarded with pain.
So how is a child supposed to soothe their pain and the feeling of helplessness? And how does a child gain control in an uncontrollable situation? Out of the need to defend against these uncomfortable feelings comes a new rule about life --
If a problem arises it is better to deny that there is a problem than to face it and feel the pain.
Julie came to believe this rule. She would think,
"This is how married people lived. Nothing was wrong about this situation. There really isn't a problem here. Just look the other way."
A child can defend themselves from the bombardment of emotional pain through the defenses of denial and justification.
But this new rule did not help teach Julie how to solve crucial problems that would face her later in life. Instead of facing and solving those problems, she would deny their very existence and look the other way as it would grow and eventually overwhelm her.
Julie was also being taught a second lesson,
How to lie.
In order to maintain a secret second life, wayward spouses need to keep up the deceit. After Julie started living with her mom, she was asked not to talk to dad about Josh. She was further instructed to tell dad that she hadn't seen him. Mom explained that it is better that dad just doesn't know "because we don't want to make him upset." Julie remembered how upset dad was when he found out about Josh. She didn't want him to get angry at mom. So with this newly learned habit of lying for mom, came a second rule about life --
Lying is allowed if it spares another from pain or spares yourself from punishment.
Another rule from this lesson on deceit is that
Lying is allowed when it protects your privacy. Everyone has a right to privacy in their life, even if it involves hurting people behind their back.
Julie was told over and over that it was not dad's business to know what mom does. This was meant to justify the fact that mom was lying to dad. Although Julie's mom was a very honest and open person before the affair, mom became quite an expert at deceit and privacy. Julie was watching her model every step of the way.
A third crucial lesson is,
How to be thoughtless -- doing what you please regardless of how it affects other people.
Julie would learn how to take advantage of her friends and family when there was something in it for her. She would learn how to disregard others' suffering because she had a right to enjoy life to the fullest. All wayward spouses hurt the people they care about the most. Wayward spouses rationalize that they had to look out for themselves which is why they developed the relationship outside of their marriage in the first place. Their actions seem to benefit themselves in the short term, but it has disastrous effects on members of their family.
Marital discord is hard enough on children. It undermines the basic security needed for them to learn and grow. But to add infidelity to a troubled marriage turns a problem into a disaster. Parents who have an affair are teaching their children very important rules that are likely to be followed for the rest of their lives. It ultimately not only undermines their marital relationships but it also seriously hurts their own chances for success in most other areas of life.
Parents have a responsibility to teach their children the importance of honesty and the importance of thoughtfulness -- considering other people's feeling when decisions are being made. To do otherwise is not only terribly irresponsible, but may tend to perpetuate the learning of these rules of deceit and thoughtlessness for generations to come.
their father's careless & selfish & foolish adultery is teaching your children lessons you do not want them to learn.
Sugar- You're right in that I have proof in the things you highlighted.
But he denies that he has any further contact with her right now, and I cannot prove it- other than his suspicious behaviors.
WH needs to prove TO YOU he is not seeing her.
NOT the other way around.
This ain't no damn court of law.
He's not "innocent" until "proven" guilty.
He had the A.
The burden of "proof of innocence" is on him.
100%
I know his phone number is the same and that hers still works. And he's told me four different stories about that, mainly blaming the phone company. Which I don't believe. And he knows I don't believe.
You are trying to reason with a liar.
Stop doing this.I have no physical access to his phone, or the records, and I am not in his car, ever. He sleeps with his keys. And his phone.
He is not willing to "prove he is innocent" ...
What innocent man sleeps with his phone and his keys? 
I know. I cannot believe I've done this. And let it get to this.
2. You need to "woman up" ... and do it now.
Many prayers for you and your kids.
A few for WH as well.
OW? ... I'm not ready to pray for her just yet. 
OW? ... I'm not ready to pray for her just yet.
I could stretch to praying for her.
It wouldn't be for nice things, though.
Rid,
I have had some experience with keyloggers. When you have time, look into eBlaster. Just 'google' it and you will see the site. Cost about $100 but it works excellent. Almost impossible to detect, unless he loads a program that specifically hunts for keyloggers. It doesn't show up anywhere on the computer that can be seen. Look into it.
Be brave. I'm pulling for you also!!
Thanx SOL that was the one I was thinking about. I couldn't remember the name.
Rid- I know that you "know". You just need to see it for yourself. You have been gaslighted for so long that you started to believe your WH. You need this to KNOW that YOU ARE RIGHT.
WARNING IT WILL HURT YOU. DON'T REACT TO IT. COME HERE AND VENT. this is really important.
I reacted and got more pain and frustration. I even helped POSOW by pushing WH towards her to save her from BIG BAD WIFE. PPM Syndrome(Poor Poor ME-stolen from my BIL)
Thank you, Limbo.I will look at Eblaster. I am not super computer stealthy, but my dad is, and I know my dad will help load and do whatever it is I need to do on my computer to catch him.
Scotland- that is exactly right. I know that I know, but the galighting messes with a person. And the sense of knowing what's real. I need to see it in front of me ( and I know it'll be right there).
I won't react in front of him. I am very good at hiding it until I need to use it. I promise I'll come here and vent here, instead of on him.
Sugar- as for the praying for her? I wish for karma. I hope someday, she's married and working hard on her marriage, and this happens to her.
I called the dad- no answer yet, but got the voicemail identifying him.
I didn't leave a message- would prefer to talk directly to him.
Will call again later today.
I am going to invite his parents, her dad, sis and brother. My children, and my parents.
The only one who won't be there is OW. I am going to do it on a day when she's working ( I know where she works).
And Pepper- you're right. And that's just what my therapist said. I keep trying to use logic with a liar.
It's not particularly useful.
I am going to need help on the Plan B letter. This needs to go forward. Just this morning- he was on the phone, and I asked him about the call ( just- who's that?) and he flipped out and started saying "Who was your last phone call with, huh?".
I answered, smiled, and left the house to go get my coffee. Now he's mad.
I can't keep up anymore. I can maintain the plan A-ish behaviors, knowing that there's relief on the way, but I realized today just how very exhausted I am.
Just this morning- he was on the phone, and I asked him about the call ( just- who's that?) and he flipped out and started saying "Who was your last phone call with, huh?".
This is so much like addiction that the addict becomes highly irritable and aggressive when anyone questions what he is doing.
Sad, but so,so predictable.I can't keep up anymore. I can maintain the plan A-ish behaviors, knowing that there's relief on the way, but I realized today just how very exhausted I am.
How are the kids doing?
This is where you plan A your WH ... by plan A-ing your kids.
Do lots of FAMILY fun activities.
Invite WH to join.
Expect him to say "No." (even expect him to be grumpy that you asked)
He will remember these things when all he has is his lonely self, and needy & immature OW to fill his time.
So when you can't imagine Plan A to WH directly, do it indirectly ... make your kids as joyful as possible.
Fill the house with warmth and laughter.
sample plan B letters ...a somewhat generic Plan B draft...
Basic elements of a Plan B letter:
1. Make it a love letter (apologies & how you can/will correct)
2. No lovebusters
3. Make "NO CONTACT" clear
4. Make unambiguous the "condition" of return to marital relationships
5. Limit references to OP
6. Plan out the logistics (as best as possible)
Dearest <spouse>,
[preliminary words]
It is with a heavy heart that I write this letter to you. It is truly sad to see what has happened to us and to our marriage. The decision I now make is out of a necessity to spare what I can for love of you.
[apologizing words]
I have made many mistakes in the past and cannot change those mistakes or take them back. <list them here� be honest� but don't knock yourself down� limit the number to the top 3�>
[corrective steps]
What I have been able to do is recognize those errors in judgment and action or inaction; and I have learned from them so much. The depth of my understanding, of those failings, has taken me to honestly and with great effort to take steps that will ensure that they will not happen again. <list the ENs that you can fulfill and how you will do this� again be honest� and limit the number to the top 3 or 4> <If you know you can honestly apply the POJA� say you can and how you will do it>
[acknowledgment of environment of marriage]
I am truly sorry for helping to create and sustain an environment that has made your affair possible and allowed it to continue. I too had a responsibility to meet your most important needs; and by lacking the right judgment, I did little to aid efforts in building and growing our love for each other. The importance of <spouses needs>, I lost sight of. Now I know I am more than able to not just meet those needs, but to be lovingly enthusiastic in the doing.
[rationalization for movement to Plan B]
�I have had a most difficult time in the last <several months, years�>. There has been pain and hurt in the time spent learning to mend my failings. The pain and hurt, even though causing me great anguish, has let me know what strength I really possess. The dual nature of hurt and strength makes a conflict that now leads me to an inescapable conclusion. This conclusion, I will hold firm to, as I have learned my strength will only be in my resolve.
[the main element of Plan B]
<spouse>, the conclusion I write of, is that�Until you end your relationship with <OP>, I can no longer see you or in anyway communicate with you! The continued pain has become an unhealthy part of my learning to be the best possible <wife/husband> for the one I love.
[punishment issue]
<spouse>, this decision I make, I do not make lightly. It is not meant as a measure to punish you. It is simply meant as a way to no longer drain the love I have had for you, even the kind of love I had for you during the time of the affair.
[if the WS knows about "Plan B"]
You know about Plan B. It is not a gimmick. It is an honest effort to retain a love that you do not see right now. In time, I hope you will see that love; but I am not na�ve, and I realize you may never accept that gift of love again.
[reiteration of condition and logistics of Plan B]
As soon as you can fully, permanently and unconditionally separate from <OP>, and are willing to commit to measures to verify that separation, I am willing to do whatever it takes to start a full recovery of our marriage.
Until then, I will not be able to <list of actions�
avoid seeing you�
avoid all communications of any form�
offer no financial support�
whatever else�>
In the best interest of those involved, I will <list of concerns�
expect legal requirements to be upheld�
minimize impact to the children� and offer acceptable and extraordinary visitation rights�
eliminate any negative explanations to family and friends
whatever else�>
<Work out logistics>�
<How is "contact" to occur in "emergency" situations.>
<Frequency of telephone contact (if any due to children)>
<Frequency of e-mail contact (if any in joint "planning")>
<Who will act as intermediaries>
[what the future would/could hold (post Plan B)]
I want us, not me alone and not you alone, but us to rebuild our marriage. We need to build a new lifestyle. Everything can be done to make us both happy. I know it is possible for our marriage to flourish, and have no more separations in body or spirit. I want to be your best friend and a <wife/husband> that any <man/woman> would be proud to have as a spouse.
[any other endearments of special parting thoughts]
-I want to grow old with you.
-When I said �I DO,� I made a promise in front of God, you, our family and friends for life.
-I want to be your <wife/husband>, your friend, and your lover.
-I loved you more that life itself while we were together and I continue to do so as I write this.
[final reiteration of the main element of Plan B]
As soon as you are willing to separate completely from your �friendship� with <OP>, I will be willing to discuss our future together.
Your loving spouse, <and any other endearment that is personal and touching>
<me>
------------------end--------------------
I hope this helps...
...I did borrow heavily from [b]Rutger[b]'s sample...
Jim
Remember, Plan B letter is NOT a list of lovebusters.
Ridic, your thread title is incorrect.
You HAVE a spine.
What you needed was a PLAN !!!!
Go get'em Tiger !
My kids are exhausted.And they don't trust him much. The disappearances, the tone he takes wear on them.
My kids used to tell me that they HATED being left alone with WH while I was at work. I was using a VAR while I was gone and my DSx2 knew about it(they found it once). DS7 even was going to get it to show me how "MEAN" WH was. It gets to them. They "feel" what is going on. That's why they need to be told about things in an age appropriate manner.
You've got your Plan. Work it. Take care of yourself and your kids. You can do this.
Okay. That letter is a big help. It lets me see what I need to outline, because right now, my original opening would be "hey, you mothereffer". Which isn't super useful.
My kids used to tell me that they HATED being left alone with WH while I was at work. I was using a VAR while I was gone and my DSx2 knew about it(they found it once). DS7 even was going to get it to show me how "MEAN" WH was. It gets to them. They "feel" what is going on. That's why they need to be told about things in an age appropriate manner.
You've got your Plan. Work it. Take care of yourself and your kids. You can do this.
Because they've all met her, and they're smart little kids, they know what's up. My 14 year old asked me straight up what was up with " the blonder chick that kinda looks like a man and is a bad dresser". No lie. That's what she said.
Okay. That letter is a big help. It lets me see what I need to outline, because right now, my original opening would be "hey, you mothereffer". Which isn't super useful.
That would be SO satisfying, though.
Sigh.
Okay. That letter is a big help. It lets me see what I need to outline, because right now, my original opening would be "hey, you mothereffer". Which isn't super useful.
That would be SO satisfying, though.
Sigh.
Word. It would feel so good.
And if you were in Plan F/U I would say LEAD with it. There are so many things I would/could do if I was in Plan F/U. Thankfully, I have people here who are experts on the other way.
I like getting the advice to be evil in a LOVING way.
My DSx2 met POSOW on XMAS day(arggghhhhhh I HATE THIS). Even worse is that THEY LIKE HER. They say she is nice and she plays with them sometimes. ARGHHHHHHHHHH I SUPER DOOPER HATE THAT.
I raised good kids and now I wish I had MONSTERS. HEHEHEHEHE.
You'll be okay. We'll be here for you. Don't do anything rash without asking on here first and getting some GOOD MB advice on what to do.
Okay. Called the dad again, no answer. Am thinking I should go to his office and see him face to face, and try that? Could email- but am worried there would be a an electronic trail.
If he isn't helpful, do I need deniability?
Is this good or bad thinking?
My dad is going to help me with keylogger early this week. So there's that.
Scotland- my kids didn't like her. Probably because she's so young,and she was trying so hard with them,and they are pretty good people readers. They all knew something was off.
I have a question- with the gaslighting- even when you find out just how long you've been tricked, and you know this person isn't worthy of trust, is it still hard to see the truth? I know he's lying. I know that. But the stories can be so good, that it makes me stumble, at the time. When I leave his presence, it's straight in my head and I see it. But at times, stuff seems plausible.
Ugh. I really resent this.
Well, I will tell you kind of briefly what happened to me.
Oct 07 I felt like something was "off" I accused WH of being involved with someone(not POSOW)
Nov 9/07 119pm(yes it was a BIG moment in my life)- I received a phone call from a girl at my WH's work. This is what I remember of the phone call.
"Hello."
"Hi. I just wanted to let you know that WH is making a fool out of you at work."
"Okay"
"WH goes on breaks and lunches with a girl named POSOW. They spend time alone in her car. He leaves work early to be with her. Just ask WH about POSOW."
"Okay"
I was a little shocked. I didn't know what to say except OKAY.
I called WH and he came home from work. It was a Friday and we had the whole weekend to talk. He wanted to email POSOW to WARN her what was being said at work. WE emailed her together and she responded. POSOW and I became FRIENDS on Facebook.
There was a lot of tension in my M and I did A LOT of LB. I was insecure and VERY jealous. I wanted to believe WH. He couldn't lie to me before.
Dec-Jan 08 there were a couple of phone calls that I found out about. I called POSOW and we talked and she apologized. Then, it was "we're JUST FRIENDS" "She isn't my type. She is nowhere near as high on a level in my eyes as you."
Jan 08 I found a box of condoms in the car hidden under the driver's seat. Major
but what did I do? Love bust some more. AO all over the place.
Mar 08- Wh told me he was going out to play pool. I had a funny feeling. Checked PAYG cell phone and some minutes were used. I KNEW. I had a friend drive me to find him and I did AT POSOW's APARTMENT. I called POSOW and said, "can I speak to my HUSBAND please?" That is the first day I met POSOW. What was the "reason" they gave me? POSOW was having problems with her bf(MY response, "Yea the problem with her bf is that he is married to ME") Not a pretty sight and WH actually was mad at ME. Told me POSOW was going to get kicked out of her coop because of what I DID.
May 08 I broke the cell phone. I was sick of the lies of contact. Then we got new phones.
May 08- Mar 09 Many LB's done by me and many many times i had a "feeling" that something wasn't right. Our SF started going down. I logged on to our cell acct online and saw increased and frequent calls from WH to POSOW. I BLEW UP. I met POSOW again. It was BAD. She was so smug. She even said, "Do you really think WH would have stopped talking to me?" I wanted to smack her. I got up the strength to go away for a night to "think". I found my courage. I didn't care whcihc way this went I wasn't going to be lied to. WH BEGGED me to come home and begged me not to leave.
Apr08-Aug 08- WH went out a lot and I am sure that he went out with POSOW. WH went away for a weekend of training way up north. He barely even called us. I now know POSOW was there with him.
Sep 20/09 WH gives me the I love you but I'm not in love with you. Then in convo I ask, "Have you ever thought about leaving." He says, "yes" and that's that.
Oct 30/09 I find MB. That same night WH goes to a party and stays out all night long with no phone call. I now know that he was with POSOW. I start Plan A.
Nov 27th/09 I install a keylogger after advice from MB forum. I go out and come home at 1230am. I log on to the keylogger site and I read chats from my WH to POSOW. The one that got me was, "That's why I want to do other things with you, so it's not just about sex." Then there was a lot of "I love you. You are so cute. You want me to want it MORE. How could I when I want it 24/7 already?" This KILLED me. But now I knew for sure. There was NO DOUBT. He found the keylogger and deleted it after only 2 hours, but it was enough.
Knowing my enemy(the adultery) was my first step in making my plan and dealing with what I wanted to do.
I know this is a long post. It really is brief compared to what I remember from all of that time. I am an elephant that way.
My WH didn't trick me? I tricked ME. I convinced myself that what I could clearly see was not what it was. Your WH wasn't a good liar, You were a good believer.
I never thought of it that way. I was a good believer. I can't fathom personally lying or doing what he's done, so I accepted way too much. It's definitely an issue with me.
Okay.
So- her dad is gone for the next two weeks. On a vacation somewhere, according to his work.
Sister is in NY- I contact her next, I guess?
My dad is coming to help with the keylogger- and then I should get some good information. I bought a VAR, waiting for it to be delivered, then I've got to figure out how to get it in his car. Or maybe I should put it in his office. I definitely can have easy access to that, and hide it there.
It's much better to have a plan.
Without a plan, you're like a bobbing cork on the ocean, and there's a storm coming.
Keep up the good work.
Keylogger's on. I feel sick knowing that I did it, and worrying about him finding it, but we checked for over an hour, and cannot find it without my password sequence.
Found out this afternoon that a phone he was paying for, for her, still works. Have been promised a million times that it doesn't work. It does. She answers.
FIL told me that there was a huge overage charge on corporate phone bill for the last month. At first, I thought, maybe it was a cancellation charge for her phone, but notsomuch since it works.
He's caught.
Working on letter, right now.
Going to throw up.
I am so sorry, Ridic! Knowing in your heart is one thing. Knowing in your mind is excruciating.
God's Blessings,
Say
Rid- I'm sorry you have to see it firsthand and I know how much that hurts. What helped me is to think that this person wasn't my spouse, but the alien.
Hang tough.
Okay. Here's my plan.
I have drafted a plan b letter.
I have drafted a letter to the other woman, including texts he sent me, and a screenshot of his membership in a married people seeking other partners website ( yep- he's a winner).
I have drafted an exposure to letter that will go to family and friends of both of them.
I am waiting on him to answer one email from her, and I am totally hoping he does it at work, so then I can hand him packed bag, plan b letter, and get on with it.
Then I send the otehr communications, correct? As the door shuts on him?
I am struggling on the general exposure letter.
What do I say that doesn't start with whorey-whore and scumbucket are going at it and lying to everyone they've ever met?
My letter something like
To all friends and family of whorey and scumbag,
Over the past 9 months whorey and scumbag of Sydney, Australia, have been having an affair. It is mainly text based and no contact has been made yet, but if given the cance whorey has confided that she would consumate their love. In fact she claims to no longer love me, but love him instead.
This causes me pain, anguish....[bunch of other emotinos and description of what induces those feelings] to me, and my children.
I need your help in stopping this affair before is destroys my home. Please keep us in your prayers and provide all means in keeping whore and scumbag away from each other.
For a copy of their correspondence please email me back.
Your loving friend
Ridic!!
P.s. I included an attachment of several correspondence with grapic sexual text and all to her grandma. i would suggest them to request from you instead of just blasting it. Of course that really made her mad.
Also get ready for the fight of a lifetime, and have cameras, and recorders on hand to record it all. Protect yourself smile and don't fight back.....its tough not to.
If you look in my thread (Want new start-she doesnt - around page 8) I had posted my letter to OM's facebook friends/family. Sorry, I don't know how to link it.
I would also recommend drafting the letter when you are calm and not as angry/emotional. Just a suggestion. You don't want to come off as desperate or vindictive. You want to enlist their help and support in reaching your WS. I hope they can have some influence.
Hopefully Saynomore or Pep will be along to help soon as they are much better than I at helping.
I am struggling on the general exposure letter.
What do I say that doesn't start with whorey-whore and scumbucket are going at it and lying to everyone they've ever met?
I'm so sorry.
But, it's better to know, than not to know.
Ridic,
Just a suggestion.
Make a list of actions you intend to take.
In the order in which you want to take them.
I find it to be helpful when I am in an emotionally disordered state to think in a linear fashon.
Pepper has a good point.
I went through and made sure that they couldn't hurt me financially, destroy my emails, or anything like that before I nuked. I changed passwords, made copies of evidence and mailed them out to a off site server, and anything else I could think of that my WW could use to hurt me and the kids. Think it through because you have no idea what will happen.
I am sorry Rid. Now that you know thou, you doubly have to listen to the people on here. There are going to be things that throw you in a HUGE tail spin. Stick with your plan. Do things that go with you goal. HUGS. I am sorry that you had to find out like this. These words will sit with you for a really long time. Don't let them rule your life. Don't get tempted to read them over and over again. I have them saved, but I do NOT look at them. I looked at them for the first week, but I knew that they were so hurtful that it was keeping me down. I still could tell you word for word what they say, but I don't look.
Stay strong. We are here for you. Get your plan and stick with it.
I've changed all passwords and things like that.
Financially, I am a SAHM, he could theoretically go in and clean out our checking account, but my FIL has told me he would fix that immediately if that happened.
I've told my friends to block him on Facebook ( he isn't friends with them, but there are three girlfriends of mine that I think he'd go after).
Draft of exposure:
Hello.
My name is RS. My husband, WH, has been having an affair with OW for the past 3 years.
We have been married for 15 years, and have four children, ranging in age from 14 to 7. I have been fighting for my marriage, with assurances from WH that he, too, was fighting for our marriage, and that OW was simply a distraction, a mistake, a bad choice.
I need to say that I was appropriately warned in this situation by OW's father, Good Dude, but chose to believe in my husband, and act in good faith on the information he was giving me. I need to apologize to him, for doing a good thing in trying to warn me,
I have very recently learned that they are still spending time together, and have not severed contact, as was my request for the progress of our marriage. He also pays for her cell phone, and has taken her many places, and done many things with her, all at the expense of our family life, and most importantly, time with our children and me. I can provide proof of this affair upon request.
I am telling you all this, as a close friend or family member of either WH or OW. I am hoping that you will understand my position, and understand that I do not take this exposure lightly. But I am fighting, every single day, to save my marriage, and save my family, and I have been undercut at many junctions by the secrecy that has let their relationship flourish.
Thank you for listening.
awww...Thats a nice letter. Let a big wig around here look at it.
My list:
One email response from him to her, so I can have him dead to rights, and not just have him say that she's stalking him.
Three letters, drafted, ready to go.
His bag packed, ready to go, with copy of Plan B on it.
Intermediary arranged for child issues.
Email accts forwarded to intermediary ( well- his emails specifically).
Explanation ready for the kids " Daddy has chosen to have a girlfriend. Mommy and Daddy are married, and Mommy knows it is wrong to have a girlfriends while you are married, so Daddy is leaving the house for now while he thinks about that".
And then, go time.
I am still going to throw up. I know this is the right thing to do, it just feels so permanent.
Very good.
Draft of exposure:
Hello.
My name is RS. My husband, WH, has been having an affair with OW for the past 3 years.
We have been married for 15 years, and have four children, ranging in age from 14 to 7. I have been fighting for my marriage, with assurances from WH that he, too, was fighting for our marriage, and that OW was simply a distraction, a mistake, a bad choice.
I need to say that I was appropriately warned in this situation by OW's father, Good Dude, but chose to believe in my husband, and act in good faith on the information he was giving me. I need to apologize to him, for doing a good thing in trying to warn me,
I have very recently learned that they are still spending time together, and have not severed contact, as was my request for the progress of our marriage. He also pays for her cell phone, and has taken her many places, and done many things with her, all at the expense of our family life, and most importantly, time with our children and me. I can provide proof of this affair upon request.
I am telling you all this, as a close friend or family member of either WH or OW. I am hoping that you will understand my position, and understand that I do not take this exposure lightly. But I am fighting, every single day, to save my marriage, and save my family, and I have been undercut at many junctions by the secrecy that has let their relationship flourish.
Thank you for listening.
Okay.
Then all three letters are done.
And? Thanks to the whole dating site discovery this morning, i made a doc appt to get checked for STD's. Awesome.
And? Thanks to the whole dating site discovery this morning, i made a doc appt to get checked for STD's. Awesome.
Exposure it what I must do. I need to really get that in my head.
LOL! I can be sarcastic.
I am finding the fact that this is my life to be kinda out of body.
Exposure it what I must do. I need to really get that in my head.
I promise you - there will come a time when you'll be patting yourself on the back for exposing. And I'll wager that there will come a time when you'll be on these boards, telling newbies how critical exposure is. A few years ago I never would have been able to wrap my mind around the concept. Now - HA! I can't imagine anyone NOT exposing!
LOL! I can be sarcastic.
I am finding the fact that this is my life to be kinda out of body.
Did you ever see the movie
Walkabout1971
set in Australia
It's about making one's way through the unknown, the wilderness.
It would be a good rental. (for you)
It's very dream like.
It is probably too intense for your younger children.
Okay.
I exposed.
Blew it wide.
Found out her parents had hired a private detective a year ago, because his story didn't make sense. He insisted he was a divorced man whose wife had cheated on him with his best friend, and he had no children. They hired the PI, found the truth, and their daughter stayed with my husband, because he promised her that he was only with me for the kids, and was planning to divorce me and marry her.
Her family hates him. he's forbidden to be near their house. They cut her off financially, and still, she follows my husband around like a lovesick puppy. He sends her texts and messages and sees her several times a week.
He also belongs to that horrible site where married people look for other married people for hookups. And last night- he chatted online with his college girlfriend about flying out to visit her in a few weeks. I had no idea that was going on.
He is seriously disturbed. Sick. I have no idea who he is.
I exposed big and wide, though. He is furious that I gave his parents details and proof.
He is texting me, not to ask for forgiveness or why, but just to needle me about the exposure and his parents.
I send the OW an email containing the chat transcripts with the college girlfriend, and the profile information on the dating website, as well as texts he sent me that very clearly do not say he's waiting around for the kids to get older to leave me for her. They say just the opposite.
So we'll see what happens next. I have no idea. He's not argued with me one bit about saving our marriage or seeking help. He may see this as the end. I dunno.
what do you do now?
something special for yourself. schedule a massage. or a pedicure. SELF-CARE.
You did excellent! So pat yourself on the back.
And decide. Do you want to continue? Do you want him back? Because he sounds like a seriously flawed individual - with a lot of work to do before he will be a quality partner.
He very likely thinks he's unforgivable. Lots of waywards are very surprised that they can be forgiven. That is up to you.
He may be assuming that YOU are done, because that is really a lot to absorb....
How are you feeling?
Okay.
I exposed.
Blew it wide.
Well done, Ridic! Well done!
Time to take a breather and let the dust settle. He is probably in a state of shock at this point, wondering what the hell happened to his formerly entitled state. And wondering where you got the cojones!
When things settle down a bit, you might want to take inventory to determine whether or not you want this person in your life.
I don't know what I think at this point. Whether or not I want him back. I don't know what to think.
I keep thinking something's gone horribly wrong in his thinking. And that he's sick and needs help, but frankly, after what I learned today, I am seriously concerned that he has borderline personality disorder and or narcissism, and without serious mental help on his end....
Lexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxy is right.
You did what you need to do, for now.
It is time for some serious self care.
Take your time.
You don't have to decide anything at the moment.
(((( BIG HUGS ))))
PS.
No need to answer his texts or emails right now.
It's probably best to remain silent on your end.
BE SERENE
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
He stopped contacting me about four hours ago.
I guess he's going to go move in with her.
I know he's not worth it right now, but I thought he'd at least fight for me. I guess not.
I am trying very hard to be serene.
I do feel relieved, to some large degree, because now he knows I know. I found out a whole lot last night, and had to sit with it overnight, and try to stay calm.
I managed it. Not even sure how, but I did.
I know he's not worth it right now, but I thought he'd at least fight for me. I guess not.
He's not fighting for his children.
It's not just you.
It's his entire life he's rejecting.
Make sure OW's DAD knows WH plans to live with his daughter ... as his un-paid wh***.
This has "crash and burn" written all over it.
Sorry for you, and your kids, Ridic.
The second he moves his things, change the locks and the garage door opener (if you have one).
I am trying very hard to be serene.
I do feel relieved, to some large degree, because now he knows I know. I found out a whole lot last night, and had to sit with it overnight, and try to stay calm.
Great job, Ridic!
HUGE hat tip to PEP. WOW!
You're doing great Ridic!
You will recover, with or without your WH.
Thanks to the help of OW's sister, the entire side of her family knows, too- that he's run to her. They are completely against it, hate my husband, and they exposed him as a great big liar a long time ago ( he presented himself as a divorced man with no children).
But OW kept seeing him, even after she found out everything she had been told about him was a lie.
I doubt this will even phase her. I am sure she thinks she just won the jackpot, as does he.
I just thought he'd try and fight for me and and for our babies. I guess not.
I am trying to keep it together. My parents are helping me pull myself together around the kids.
I am going to take measures to secure the house this morning.
You take care of those children and yourself.
I know exactly what you are talking about. When I went to Plan B, part of me was hoping that he wouldn't leave. That my WH would say, "I CHOOSE US." and that he would stay. Instead, he moved right in to her place. I am living my life and he is living his. I NEVER thought those lives would be lived separate. I hold out hope that one day he may return and that I will have a little LB$ left for him.
It isn't the end of my world, but it is the end of the world I thought I would have. A couple of weeks ago, I looked around at all of the people living their lives and I thought, "Will I ever be happy again?" The answer to that question is "YES YES YESSSSSSSSSSS." It is going to take a long time, but I am actually noticing some of my old self(pre d-day) coming back out. I can listen to music again and I can DANCE. I don't feel like this all of the time, but there are moments everyday now.
Keep your chin up and keep strong. It is like you are a different person looking at your life. That's just your brain's way of protecting you. That will change, and you will feel like you again.
Take Care.
Ridic, what will happen next is your H will test your resolve to stay dark. He will try to get through by calling, emailing, texting, or even barging into the house. His goal will be to get it back to where he can have both of you meeting his needs. He won't like being cut off from you, because that reveals that the OW can't possibly meet all his needs and threatens his affair.
Just be prepared for that to happen. Everytime he gets through only serves to prop up his affair a little longer.
This is a very critical time for that reason. You are showing him that you mean it. Hang tough!
Listen to ML. I didn't believe that my WH would try but he DID. STAY DARK AS NIGHT.
He hasn't tried to talk to us at all. Nothing. Not a peep.
I think he did what Pepper said, and rejected his whole life.
I don't have anything to stay dark for. He's so angry at me for exposing to family and friends that he hates me now.
He's at work today. Told his dad he's absolutely fine.
Is this normal? That the wayward doesn't even try to fight it at all?
Is this normal? That the wayward doesn't even try to fight it at all?
I
t's been less than a day.
Your focus is on you and the kids, right?
Yes. My parents are here, and I have been busy with the kids and my parents having our lives go on.
And I know I shouldn't worry about him right now, in terms of contact, but I can't stop myself.
I guess I need to keep busier. That'll help distract me.
I just feel overwhelmed. I think I plan A'd so long that I don't know what the heck to do now.
YKW?
This is what you do now
Plan A yourself.
In that, I mean as you settle into this feeling you have of being abandoned by your H, you approach your own thoughts like plan A towards YOU. No disrespectful judgements (about your wifely skills and looks and value), No demands (that you make things happen and do it or else all is lost), No angry outbursts (as in self flagation....yk?).
I just feel overwhelmed. I think I plan A'd so long that I don't know what the heck to do now.
I could tell you were inches away from falling into the abyss.
You have pulled back from the edge.
But, you're still peeking over, a little bit, to see how far down the drop actually goes.
You will not feel this weird/bad/displaced/out-of-body forever.
You will feel better.
I promise.
Everyone is impressed with your strength.
We can see it, even when you cannot.
That really helps me. It makes me feel better. Because I was trying so hard to be strong, and I feel so lost now.
I had to do this. I cannot imagine how much worse it was going to get. I had to put the brakes on this, because it was getting worse not better.
But I feel awful. and worn out.
That really helps me. It makes me feel better. Because I was trying so hard to be strong, and I feel so lost now.
I had to do this. I cannot imagine how much worse it was going to get. I had to put the brakes on this, because it was getting worse not better.
But I feel awful. and worn out.
Ridic
I am sending healing thoughts your way.
But I feel awful. and worn out.
Pay attention.
Rest
Care
Comfort
((((((RID))))))
These feelings are absolutely NORMAL. You will have a LOT of What if's come creeping in too. We will help you throw all of that. Taking care of yourself and your kids will be your priority and it will be a GREAT distraction. Pep has even told me to Plan A my kids and that really helped.
I'm gonna take my younger daughter and get our nails done in the morning.
I just found out from my inlaws that WH is planning on going to youngest son's bball game tomorrow.
I have to ignore him. In public. How the heck do I do that without running a broadcast banner above my family's head that there's an issue?
And he sent me a single word text that reads "yes". I don't even know what that means, but I didn't reply.
HAHAHAHA I think that text was not meant for YOU. He is gonna kick himself for that one later.
My WH, while I was in Plan A, called me one afternoon. It was clear that he had intended on calling POSOW instead. I kept cool and I said, "Did you dial the wrong number?" He said something about ONLY calling to check on the kids and I said, "Okay Bye." But I KNOW he was trying to call POSOW instead.
Their little WAYTURD brains can't keep all of their thoughts straight.
As far as the BBALL game, it's a good thing to know about, but at the same time, it shouldn't have gotten through your dark curtain of Plan B.
Let the inlaws know that you don't want to know anything about WH. It will be hard, because people will think that you WANT to know things. You really DON'T.
What to do while at the game? I haven't had to deal with that so I will let the vets chime in on that one.
BTW LOVE the idea of Mom and DD sitting in a salon getting their nails done. I miss not having a GIRL. I will live vicariously through you.
I'm gonna take my younger daughter and get our nails done in the morning.
I just found out from my inlaws that WH is planning on going to youngest son's bball game tomorrow.
I have to ignore him. In public.
sunglasses you own. (seriously)
And, if you look cute in one (like I do 
)
wear a cool baseball cap.
Your WH prolly' won't stay at the bball game very long, if he shows up at all.
Be surrounded by YOUR supporters!
BTW LOVE the idea of Mom and DD sitting in a salon getting their nails done. I miss not having a GIRL. I will live vicariously through you.
It is a lot of fun, I'll give you that.
I've been very lucky, I know, to have had my two girls and my two boys. The best of both worlds.
I can do the sunglasses. I already figured I'd go to the game and sit in between my friends, and ignore him.
I am hoping he doesn't actually go. That'd be the best outcome.
Getting your nails done is a great idea. It is fun and uplifting. A pedicure does it for me.
I had to laugh about your text. I got one from WH shortly after D-day and before I had confronted him, one word also, "Sup." It was the first and only time that he text that word to me. When I checked his phone later, he had immediately text the same to OW. Too bad he didn't text, "Blowjob?" he would have nailed himself.
God's Blessings,
Say
Okay.
Went to the game. Surrounded by my peeps. Who are the very best people- they kept me laughing and smiling and enjoying the game. WH slipped in the back. I paid no attention to him at all. I know he was there only because my friends told me, and because I could hear him cheering for our little boy. He left right before the end of the game.
Within ten minutes of the end of the game he started texting me> asked if he could take our littlest to a bball game on Sunday. Then asked if he completed my list of demands if he could come home. Then asked me if I thought the whole thing was his fault. Then said he's wrecked a lot of lives and doesn't think he can forgive himself. Then he said he just wants me and our children. And that he's sorry for everything. Then he said that it's not part of the blame, because it's all his fault, but that I make him feel small and unimportant,sometimes.
The small and unimportant comment alarmed me- because it felt manipulative and trying to shift the focus. He's said that before, when trying to deflect blame about the primary relationship with the other woman.
He then asked to see me.
I didn't see him.
What do I do now? Do I meet with him? Do I stay dark? What do I do?
Stay dark. He is testing your boundaries.
You *did* list your requirements for him to return, didn't you? Then he needs to address those -- without your prompting him to do so.
Until he flat out comes out and says he's willing to meet your stated requirements, he's just testing the waters to see if he can get you to bend and/or break.
Stay dark. You're doing an admirable job!
I can't see where you gave him a Plan B letter. Did you? The Plan B letter gives him the route home. He is giving indication that he wants to do that. Look at SMB's requirements for TST to come home. Set the bar high, Ridic and save yourself from a false R.
God's Blessings,
Say
I gave him a plan B letter- packed in the bag with his stuff. He read it.
So, I don't engage him until he comes to me with everything in hand, done?
Ridic, let him convince your IM of his sincerity. He is not ready now, I assure you. It was a MISTAKE to read his texts. Next time, just delete them.
What do I do now? Do I meet with him?
YES !!Plan A your kids.
Tighten up your Plan B. No peeking.
WH has work to do before you want to hear what he has to say.
In a minute, I'm going to *bump* a thread for you about "false recovery".
It's time you read it.
READ this thread .... and you will understand WHY you cannot "lower the bar" for WH. BECAUSE, LOWERING THE BAR USUALLY SPELLS DISASTERPay particular attention to TST, a former WH, who came home and secretly maintained his affair (false recovery). AND, pay attention to his wife, sexymamabear.
It's been a long week.
After staying dark, he agreed to all the conditions, and broke contact.
I let him come home, with the agreement that he would seek pschological help.
That's where it all goes wrong.
He is moping and crying. He's lost 15 pounds, and won't eat. He is constantly telling me all about how much he misses her, and she was the most signifigant relationship in his life, and he's never been closer to anyone in the world than he was with her, and without her, he can't function.
He keeps saying he loves me, but that I can't comprehend his loss.
And for her part? She hates his guts. She won't speak to him, and has filed a restraining order. Her parents have sent me a letter, explaining that their daughter is through with him, as has she ( she actually sent me a letter that I felt compassion for her in reading).
He did a helluva lot of lying on her end that I wasn't aware of. When I exposed, she learned a lot of things he didn't want her to ever know.
I almost feel sorry for her. I do. She was played hard.
He asked me yesterday to email her and tell her I had lied. He said he would know that I am putting him first, if I would just tell her that I lied about him still living with me for the past three years. He said he would be able to go on, because then he would know she doesn't hate him. He got very angry and told me I disappointed him by not agreeing to email her and lie for him.
Um, so now what? I've screwed up, by taking the no contact as a step to get back in the house. But this constant mourning ( and he is also very angry at me for telling her the truth- he said he doesn't know that he'll ever be able to forgive me for that), it's more than I can take.
So, help me. What would you do? besides scream?
RidicSit,
What were your complete conditions you gave him to end Plan B and return home?
Did you set the bar high enough?
I am very worried you have set yourself up for a false recovery.
However......
She won't speak to him, and has filed a restraining order.
This is very good!
Withdrawal is a sick and disgusting event for a betrayed spouse to witness. Massively disrespectful to the betrayed spouse. They are so clueless.
He asked me yesterday to email her and tell her I had lied. He said he would know that I am putting him first, if I would just tell her that I lied about him still living with me for the past three years. He said he would be able to go on, because then he would know she doesn't hate him. He got very angry and told me I disappointed him by not agreeing to email her and lie for him.
Wow. You disappointed him. How inconsiderate. This is some truly classic wayward fog spewage. A loud rhino fart would make more sense than this torrential flood of illogic.
It takes a few weeks for withdrawal to take hold. You are in for a lousy ride. I wish you would have let him stew outside in the dark longer. The Jello in his head has not set yet.
He asked me yesterday to email her and tell her I had lied. He said he would know that I am putting him first, if I would just tell her that I lied about him still living with me for the past three years. He said he would be able to go on, because then he would know she doesn't hate him. He got very angry and told me I disappointed him by not agreeing to email her and lie for him.
I don�t know how you didn�t go all Lorena Bobbitt on him with that one.
He has lied to the OW, has lied to you, he has a restraining order for goodness sake! There is nothing you did wrong. Right now he is 100% wrong, and I feel bad that you have to put up with this lamenting that is obviously damaging you.
Hopefully your spine will hold up to all this foggy logic trying to blame shift, and justify his adultery. In the meantime be nice, smile, and vent on here. Let us know whats up! You matter to us.
I said he had to seek counseling. He had to end contact with her- via letter I approved, cancellation of her phone, changing his number, blocking her on email, full access to all his financials, copies of his keys, online access to his phone account and credit cards.
He has been texting me all morning- and I am ignoring him- about how he knows he'll never get over the affair, and I'm such a wonderful person who deserves so much better than I'm getting from him. And that he'll now do whatever I tell him to do, although he wants me to know he will never get better.
This horrible fog- he's not right, is he? It does lift, right? And when the therapy gets going ( he's had prelim and bloodwork), there's a chance he'll be able to move forward?
So keep being kind and calm ( thank heavens for Celexa), and see what happens?
When he wants to go on and on about how much he misses her and will never get over her, what's the best for me?
he keeps telling me he's hopeless and it will never get better, and yet, he keeps saying he'll do whatever I want.
And that he'll now do whatever I tell him to do, although he wants me to know he will never get better.
Now there's a blank check! Sorry, that one made me laugh and provided several thoughts about what you could tell him to do.
Well like I said earlier, withdrawal sucks. Poor pathetic little waywards and their hurt feel goods. Through withdrawal just like the adultery it's all about them.
Hang in there. Time is the only cure.
Are you going to use the Harleys for counseling?
I think so- I think I probably need to call individually first and get a good grasp on how to get through withdrawal.
He's just so negative, it's hard to stay positive. He refuses to admit that he will ever feel differently than today.
How long should I expect this to last?
General concensus is the worst passes in around 3-weeks but it can linger in some form or another for months. They have their triggers too about the adultery partner.
it's hard to stay positive
It is critical now that you do not lovebust at all.
Expect nothing from him as withdrawal continues. Recovery can only start when the worst of the withdrawal is over.
Don't you feel lucky.
He's just so negative, it's hard to stay positive. He refuses to admit that he will ever feel differently than today.
He needs to admit nothing about his feeling to you while he is in this state.
Landmine --- AVOID !
Start giving him things TO DO.
Physical things.
"Mow the lawn"
"Take the kids to the park"
"Go to the market, I forgot dog food."
"Fix the broken table leg."
Is he going to work?How long should I expect this to last?
You meant to ask:
"How long should I put up with this?"I'd give it 2 weeks.
Limit his ability to use YOU as a whipping girl.
Tell him straight up:
"Look, DH, you will not use me to vent your feelings over your adultery partner.
Here's a journal. Write it down.
Would you like pasta for dinner?"
Get H to a physician.
He needs anti-Ds.
I almost feel sorry for her. I do. She was played hard.
She'll recover.
She will learn from this experience, if she's not too dumb.
Her parents will help her.
How are your kids doing?
He asked me yesterday to email her and tell her I had lied. He said he would know that I am putting him first, if I would just tell her that I lied about him still living with me for the past three years. He said he would be able to go on, because then he would know she doesn't hate him. He got very angry and told me I disappointed him by not agreeing to email her and lie for him.
Where did she think he was living for 3 years?
Maybe she is "that dumb".
Okay- he is going to work, for short periods of time, then he calls me and tells me he's having a panic attack.
I will find a list of activities for him to do. I've made him take the kids to their lessons this week, trying to get him out of the house and on a schedule.
Okay. I won't ask him how he feels anymore. I will knock that off right now. He's taking it as a license to tell me how bad losing her sucks. And that has got to stop. I can't really take hearing how wonderful he was with her and how I pale in comparison.
He keeps calling me and asking me all sorts of questions, and then makes these really weird and overly polite commentaries.
It makes me want to get off the phone with him immediately. How do i offer him pasta over the phone?
Get H to a physician.
He needs anti-Ds.
I know- he's a week away from an appointment where he can get them. Our family physician won't prescribe right now, because H is under the care of a psych. He asked at the bloodwork appt on Tuesday.
I almost feel sorry for her. I do. She was played hard.
She'll recover.
She will learn from this experience, if she's not too dumb.
Her parents will help her.
How are your kids doing?
My kids are confused, by his pouting and behavior, but I am loving them extra hard, and have been plan A-ing them fulltime. They are clingy to me, to a degree, and seem to intuitively know to avoid him.
He told her we were still married, but that he hadn't lived with me for years. And that I had most of his money, so he stayed with different friends. But she never ever saw where he "lived">
I guess, like me, she saw what she wanted to see.
I still cannot believe he wanted me to contact her and tell her I lied. What the heck thinking goes on for that to seem like a plan?
He just called and told me that even though it's what he needs the most, he won't ask me to email her again, because it hurts me to do it.
He said over and over again it's what he needs, but he's going to put me first, and not ask again.
At no point do I believe he's sincere. He wants me to contact her ( which I won't), and I know he's hoping I will.
He just cannot accept that he lied to her as much if not more than he lied to me. It's crazy> he wants me to correct how she sees him.
What the heck thinking goes on for that to seem like a plan?
Maybe he thought of it while listening outside the pachyderm enclosures at the zoo.
LOL!!!!
I guess. Asking your wife to lie to your restraining ordered mistress is a place I guess I thought I would never see.
Okay- he is going to work, for short periods of time, then he calls me and tells me he's having a panic attack.
SLOW DEEP BREATHS
each breath exhaled slower than the previous
have him do 10
if not better
10 more .... slower and deeper
exhaled through pursed lips (as if to whistle)I will find a list of activities for him to do. I've made him take the kids to their lessons this week, trying to get him out of the house and on a schedule.
Okay. I won't ask him how he feels anymore. I will knock that off right now. He's taking it as a license to tell me how bad losing her sucks. And that has got to stop. I can't really take hearing how wonderful he was with her and how I pale in comparison.
Instead ask:
"Would you like me to rub your shoulders?"
He will say "No" ... and that's OK.
If he starts to "spout" ... stop him and ask him if he wants a "shoulder rub".
Eventually, he will allow it.
If he talks during the shoulder rub, "shush" him, tell him that you need to "concentrate".
Don't allow him to talk while you "relax" his shoulders.He keeps calling me and asking me all sorts of questions, and then makes these really weird and overly polite commentaries.
He's using this to quell anxiety. This is GOOD, although annoying.
Or, change the subject if it gets too weird.
It makes me want to get off the phone with him immediately. How do i offer him pasta over the phone?
Ask something completely off the wall.
"Do you know where pasta was invented?
Look it up for me and let me know."
YOU are going to have to become stoic to a heroic level.
YOU are the sane one.
Again, how are your kids doing?
My kids are okay- they are kinda clingy to me. I've been really plan A-ing them like crazy. They are kind of avoiding him, to some degree- they seem to be able to read the crazy and stay away.
Asking your wife to lie to your restraining ordered mistress in order to show him your love is a place I guess I thought I would never see.
Not many denominations address that one in their marriage vows I am guessing.
He is supposed to be sleeping in the basement, but he has slept all over the place- floor of our bedroom, living room floor, in the hall. I wake up sometimes and he's standing over me, looking at me, so he can talk to me.
Okay. Shoulder rub is the new plan. I can do that. Everytime he talks about her, he is keeping her closer. That's no good.
I just asked him about pasta. He is compltely confused. Me likey.
He said over and over again it's what he needs, but he's going to put me first, and not ask again.
At no point do I believe he's sincere. He wants me to contact her ( which I won't), and I know he's hoping I will.
He just cannot accept that he lied to her as much if not more than he lied to me. It's crazy> he wants me to correct how she sees him.
Put GPS on his car.
I just asked him about pasta. He is compltely confused. Me likey.
I really did kill their affair, and I made it so the no contact was insanely tight. I never expected that. That was a bonus. A big huge bonus!
I still can't believe he's so angry at me. At me. For cripe's sake. LOL!
YOU killed their affair !!!!!!
Plan A was a KILLER !
I totally think he'll violate it. Totally. I'll put the GPS on.
I think her family is closing in around her and protecting her, and I think he'll get caught in his quest to make himself not be a liar to her.
YOU killed their affair !!!!!!
Plan A was a KILLER !
It really was! Yay me!
I still can't believe he's so angry at me. At me. For cripe's sake. LOL!
It would be worrisome if he acted with indifference.
If he is angry at you, he will maintain contact.
(obviously ... how many phone call today, so far?)
Oh! And at one point, he said " Why did you go so public? Why didn't you just come to me- you know I would have chosen you!"
Um, yeah. Right.
I totally think he'll violate it. Totally. I'll put the GPS on.
I think her family is closing in around her and protecting her, and I think he'll get caught in his quest to make himself not be a liar to her.
See how his anger works in your favor?
Keep smiling.
This is all going the way it is supposed to.
Your turn for anger is a little later on.
Oh! And at one point, he said " Why did you go so public? Why didn't you just come to me- you know I would have chosen you!"
Um, yeah. Right.
" Why did you go so public? Why didn't you just come to me- you know I would have chosen you!"
Man! Was that all I had to do? It would have been so much simpler! But Nooooooo...I did exposure, Plan A, Plan B, and Plan D. What was I thinking?
How come we never suggest this to betrayed spouses around here?
"Sorry you are here.
All you need to do is go to your wayward spouse and they will chose you. This should all be over in a few minutes and your marriage will be recovered."
Okay, so even though he is calling me to tell me how I don't measure up, that's actually a good thing. So him telling me I suck, interspersed with I'm so awesome for not leaving him< is a good thing.
What the heck happened to my life? how'd I get here? I am very upset that Garmin led me astray and didn't warn me! Geesh!!!! LOL!
" Why did you go so public? Why didn't you just come to me- you know I would have chosen you!"
Man! Was that all I had to do? It would have been so much simpler! But Nooooooo...I did exposure, Plan A, Plan B, and Plan D. What was I thinking?
How come we never suggest this to betrayed spouses around here?
"Sorry your here.
All you need to do is go to your wayward spouse and they will chose you. This should all be over in a few minutes and your marriage will be recovered."
I know, right? The simplicity of it astounds me!
hahahaha
Oh Ridic! You did so well! And what I admire even more is your ability to see right through his crap! That is a Superpower, you know!
This is EXACTLY how its supposed to work.
He is eventually going to be really embarassed by what he has asked of you. So embarassed, in fact, that he will probably forget that he has done it, and deny it entirely.
You really should keep a journal of the ridiculous things he is saying to you!
Okay, so even though he is calling me to tell me how I don't measure up, that's actually a good thing. So him telling me I suck, interspersed with I'm so awesome for not leaving him< is a good thing.
What the heck happened to my life? how'd I get here? I am very upset that Garmin led me astray and didn't warn me! Geesh!!!! LOL!
But, welcome to
"Addict Brain Chemistry 101"This is why H needs those anti-Ds.
His brain chemistry is running amok.
"I need to call OW"
"You need to call OW for me."
"You suck."
"OW is Mother Theresa."
Hence, GPS his car.
He just texted me that he's having a bad moment. I answered "Want a backrub?"
He said "No?Thanks?"
LOL!
I have a private journal, and I am writing down a lot. It's what keeps me from joining the crazycakes club!
I am very frustrated that the anti d's are a week away. Ugh.
I've not dealt with an addict, but I am OCD, so I definitely understand compulsions.
But because I'm not as nuts as he is, all I had to do to get the anti anxiety meds onboard was call my doc, and they were in my hands two hours later.
Him? Notsomuch.
He just texted me that he's having a bad moment. I answered "Want a backrub?"
He said "No?Thanks?"
LOL!
I have a private journal, and I am writing down a lot. It's what keeps me from joining the crazycakes club!
Can he take a medical leave of absence, if it becomes necessary?
He owns his own company. He can only fire himself.
He owns his own company. He can only fire himself.
I know he's not eating, no reason you can't bring pasta salad, or sompin'.
Here's different topic.
Music.
Do you know if WH and OW shared certain songs or a certain genre of music?
If you have such knowledge, get rid of it while H is at work.
I deleted the playlists he made for her, and got rid of what I could tell was "their" stuff.
Yes. I can bring him something at work. pasta sounds just about right. LOL!
I deleted the playlists he made for her, and got rid of what I could tell was "their" stuff.
Yes. I can bring him something at work. pasta sounds just about right. LOL!
The more he's thinking/wondering/puzzled about YOU, the less brain space there is for dumb girl.
hahahaha
Oh Ridic! You did so well! And what I admire even more is your ability to see right through his crap! That is a Superpower, you know!
This is EXACTLY how its supposed to work.
He is eventually going to be really embarassed by what he has asked of you. So embarassed, in fact, that he will probably forget that he has done it, and deny it entirely.
You really should keep a journal of the ridiculous things he is saying to you!
A-Kill'a
Bravo, RidicSit!! You killed the affair, you mean affair killer!
Good job on standing up for your family!
Your H will get through withdrawal, don't worry. Just picture him as a falling down drunk who has just had his booze confiscated. As he sobers up, it will get better.
Great job!!
I deleted the playlists he made for her, and got rid of what I could tell was "their" stuff.
If he wore a certain shirt/hat/jeans/sweater/shorts (whatever) with frequency during their time together ... replace those things.
Go through his car next opportunity.
Dump "stuff" that might function as a "reminder".
Exposure letter/Plan B letter March 4
Wayward returns home March ??? .
What is the timeline?
Wow Ridic, I am in awe of how well you've orchestrated this all out (with such amazing input on here) and you're hanging in there and doing everything RIGHT. Good for you! I'm inspired and hope to be following your footsteps very soon!
Timeline- he came home on the 16th.
Today is really bad. He is sending texts saying he feels like dying, and that he is a crazy person who has lost touch with reality, all peppered in with the normal "I'll never ever get over the affair".
He began the day by saying he should write her family an apology letter. I told him that was a no. And I reminded him that there's a restraining order violation waiting if he does.
I know withdrawal is bad, but I am wondering if I need to think about having him admitted somewhere?
I know withdrawal is bad, but I am wondering if I need to think about having him admitted somewhere?
"maybe everyone would be better off without me"
?
Call his physician, ask where you can take him today.
He's falling to pieces and you are worried.
Tell them he said:
"I feel like dying".
You might end up in the ER.
Line up a babysitter.
It's gonna be a long day.
Sorry.
Keep us posted when you aren't so busy.
(((( HUGS ))))
He has said that. Okay.
I'm gonna get going.
This is not where I thought this would head.
He has said that. Okay.
I'm gonna get going.
This is not where I thought this would head.
For anyone reading along ....Recognize the Signs Of Depression and Possible Suicide Risk
Talking About Dying -- any mention of dying, disappearing, jumping, shooting oneself, or other types of self harm.
Recent Loss -- through death, divorce, separation, broken relationship, loss of job, money, status, self-confidence, self-esteem, loss of religious faith, loss of interest in friends, sex, hobbies, activities previously enjoyed
Change in Personality -- sad, withdrawn, irritable, anxious, tired, indecisive, apathetic
Change in Behavior -- can't concentrate on school, work, routine tasks
Change in Sleep Patterns -- insomnia, often with early waking or oversleeping, nightmares
Change in Eating Habits -- loss of appetite and weight, or overeating
Diminished Sexual Interest -- impotence, menstrual abnormalities (often missed periods)
Fear of losing control -- going crazy, harming self or others
Low self esteem -- feeling worthless, shame, overwhelming guilt, self-hatred, "everyone would be better off without me"
No hope for the future -- believing things will never get better; that nothing will ever change
So sorry that withdrawal is not going well. They always say it only lasts for a few weeks.
But I would take his pain very seriously. In fact, I would call his doc TODAY and let them know it is an emergency. I know it is late Friday, so if you can't get the doc, go to the ER with him. It is good to let HUBBY know that you are taking his pain seriously and care deeply about him.
In my case (my ex committed suicide last year), he didn't exhibit any of the warnings, although his kids knew he was depressed. I told them to take him in to the ER, but they didn't and I didn't contact him either.
I had talked to him about 2 weeks before he died at a BD party for my grandson, and he seemed okay, but did tell me that he was glad I was doing so well, and if anything killed him it would be the loneliness.
Hopefully hubby is just going through normal grief, but I would still insist he get help today, so you never look back and wonder why you didn't DO something.
I called the doc. Unless he chose to go in or cause any harm, they said to keep his appointment for this week with the psych.
This weekend was really bad. He is very, very angry that I won't email her and tell her that I lied- and that we haven't been married. He says it's the only way he can move on.
He had several panic attacks, and tried to pick many different fights. He is very, very hard to be around.
This morning he came to me and told me he thinks he should get an apartment in town, so that he stops beating up on me. He says it will help me to not see him not sleeping, not eating, just missing her as much as he does.
I don't know what to do or say. I can't take him pressing on me so hard ( all the pasta talk in the world isn't helping), but I am scared if he leaves, it will make it all worse.
He is focused like a laser on her. And saying he will never ever get over her.
I don't know what the right thing is to do here.
He has promised he will go to therapy. He says he wouldn't be moving out for himself, but for me.
I don't know what the key is here.
You are doing very well, just hang in there. I can't give you any advise except to keep posting here and we will walk you through this. I was HORRIBLE at supporting my ex while he was going through withdrawal (and it only lasted 48 hours). Basically I told him he got himself into the mess, and he could get himself out. I didn't want to hear anything about how wonderful the homewrecker was. Made me want to puke, and it was hard to put on a happy wife face while he was grieving her loss.
Can you find a way to be busy doing something so you don't have to sit around and listen to him?
He is very, very angry that I won't email her and tell her that I lied- and that we haven't been married. He says it's the only way he can move on.
mad as hell.
When I am angry, I don't give good advice , so ... know that I am angry, as you read what I am going to write next.
(Take this or leave it, because this is emotionally based on my part)
If my H said something like that to me, I'd open the door and say;
"I believe you. Move on. Get out.".
I'd make him leave.
End of story.
I refuse to be bullied or gaslighted ever again in my life.
And I am hard pressed to come up with a good reason you should put up with it either.
Sorry.
If I make him leave, does that mean my marriage is over?
Or do I hope that being away and the therapy and the meds that come will help?
I know I can't be treated like this. It's too much. But this is so far over what she was to him, and is more pathological.
Ridic,
I've been following your story (in horror) but haven't had anything to add until now. I had hoped that your H had been taken to the ER and gotten a psych consult.
I am not a doctor, but I have an H and two kids who suffer from both adhd and depression. I see what their meds do for them.
Anti-d's can begin to have a mild effect fairly quickly, but more often they take several weeks to really take hold. Then there's the added problem that based on brain chemistry, certain meds help an individual more than others. Your psych may not hit on the right med for your H the first time around. It takes several months to figure this out.
Recently I noticed that my H's depression is affected by both his anti-d's and his adhd meds (adderall). This caused me to read some studies online and I learned that some psychs will prescribe both anti-d's and a low dose of an amphetemine to people like your H who are so severely depressed. The amphetemine is quick acting and gives an immediate lift to the mood until the anti-d's get a chance to take hold. Then the patient is weaned off the amphetemine.
The problem with this approach is that the amphetemine (adderall in our case) only lasts a certain amount of time in the system. To control adhd symptoms, the medicine wears off after 6 hours or so. I have noticed, however, that the mood lifting effect lasts longer. For instance, if my son doesn't take his second dose of vyvanse (new version of adderall) in the afternoon, he's much crankier the next morning. If he has taken his second dose his mood is much brighter even though his adhd symptoms are fully evident.
This is the simple version. There are added complications, including the risk of the meds causing suicidal ideation, that only a psych can address.
The only thing you can do right now is to ignore everything he says. What he's proposing is insane. Focus on getting him the medical help he so desperately needs as soon as possible.
If I make him leave, does that mean my marriage is over?
Or do I hope that being away and the therapy and the meds that come will help?
I know I can't be treated like this. It's too much. But this is so far over what she was to him, and is more pathological.
You'd think by the way he's moaning and groaning that you are all powerful and holding him captive against his will.
This is no way for you to live, being abused like this.
I say hold the door open for him and say, "Any further requests that I lie is pathological and I'm not keeping you here. Go ahead and leave. Know that you are welcome here if you are working on recovery of your marriage; otherwise, you are destroying all possible ability for me to love and respect you. Go act like a teenager somewhere else."
Thanks, Bea- for the information. I am going to follow that research and see what his psych plans for him.
He spent all day yesterday trying to get me to make him stay, then alternately, telling me that nothing would ever make him better. He asked me if he was having a nervous breakdown- I told him he was. Then he told me I caused it and there was no going back, because I won't email the affair partner.
At which point- I completely copied from KaylaAndy- and said just what she wrote.
And then I stopped speaking to him. He's sent 30 text messages since then, which keep up the alternating love/hate on me.
I haven't replied. He came home last night and tried to come into our room, but I locked the door, so he slept in the basement.
I will insist all day today, whenever he contacts me, that he needs to find other arrangements, and that I will never discuss his affair partner again with him. I am not going to be spoken to in this manner.
On a humorous note? As he texted me " DO you think I'm having a nervous breakdown?" the sone Breakdown by Tom Petty came on the radio.
Sign?
I think so. LOL!
Good job. If you can just hang in there and not go bonkers, he should start improving. I know how hard it is.
If he skips out on his medical appointment this week, he needs to go live with someone else. With relatives perhaps.
EDIT:
Does WH have a relationship with his parents?
Good? Bad?
If I make him leave, does that mean my marriage is over?
It means he has learned you have limits as to how much abusive crap you will tolerate.
He can return when he is not abusive towards you and the kids.
I sure hope he gets placed on one of the faster acting anti-depressants/anti-anxiety meds.
Pepper-
I want him to live elsewhere right now. He can live with his parents if he chooses, he just cannot stay here, regardless of whether or not he goes to therapy this week. I cannot take how he is treating me, and what he is saying to me, and I think at this point, by me being around and him thinking he can engage me, I am delaying his rock bottom.
Thoughts? Is this good thinking on my part?
He has a complicated relationship with his parents. They are very cold and standoffish. Sometimes, I can get good help from them, and they can be supportive, and other times they wall off and throw their hands up. It's complicated. And my husband's depression comes in a straight line from his father. Straight line.
I hope he gets his meds very quickly. He is causing serious harm to my ability to be compassionate towards him at all. And my wall of low was hit. I will not discuss his affair partner with him. And I will not listen to him tell me his breakdown is my fault because I won't lie to her. Enough.
Good job. If you can just hang in there and not go bonkers, he should start improving. I know how hard it is.
I sure hope so. This is horrible to watch.
He just texted me that he mailed her a letter on Sunday.
I hope he gets arrested.
Pepper-
I want him to live elsewhere right now. He can live with his parents if he chooses, he just cannot stay here, regardless of whether or not he goes to therapy this week. I cannot take how he is treating me, and what he is saying to me, and I think at this point, by me being around and him thinking he can engage me, I am delaying his rock bottom.
Thoughts? Is this good thinking on my part?
I would have done this yesterday.
But, I'm older, and have a ton of experience with crazy people.
He has a complicated relationship with his parents. They are very cold and standoffish. Sometimes, I can get good help from them, and they can be supportive, and other times they wall off and throw their hands up. It's complicated. And my husband's depression comes in a straight line from his father. Straight line.
With people who will ignore his tirades.
And, they won't coddle him like an infant.
I hope he gets his meds very quickly. He is causing serious harm to my ability to be compassionate towards him at all. And my wall of low was hit. I will not discuss his affair partner with him. And I will not listen to him tell me his breakdown is my fault because I won't lie to her. Enough.
And your kids certainly will be better off not experiencing his crazy talk.
I am sure you will handle this with grace & strength.
You have done so well.
Be proud of yourself.
You have shown compassion towards WH .... now show compassion towards your kids, remove a source of pain and confusion.
You will know when the tide has turned.
He just texted me that he mailed her a letter on Sunday.
I hope he gets arrested.
I wonder why he told you this?
Any idea why he did not keep this a secret?
He just texted me that he mailed her a letter on Sunday.
I hope he gets arrested.
X2
I will do so right now. Contact her dad.
I am trying everyday, to do the right thing. It's hard, on top of how angry I am getting.
I assume he told me to engage me, since I have been ignoring him. I assume he was trying to provoke a response. I have cut him off emotionally. That angst he's been piling on me has to go somewhere.
Take it easy. You are doing GREAT. One thing at a time. Little steps. Don't look at the big picture, just the steps you can take that are within your control.
KEEP IT UP. You'll get there. One step at a time.
I will do so right now. Contact her dad.
I am trying everyday, to do the right thing. It's hard, on top of how angry I am getting.
You can protect yourself without being mean.
What you cannot do is control your WH's perception of your behaviors as mean.
Remember, the less you say to someone who is going nuts, the better.
Clear, brief communication.
Never argue or try to over-explain your decisions.
When I am dealing with such situations I usually say:
"Nevertheless, I have made my decision"
The crazy response (blah blah blah)
I repeat:
"Nevertheless, I have made my decision"
Crazy person:
"Why can't we talk about this?"
"I have made my decision."
Be sure to tell her dad about his stupid request that you lie to OW/daughter about your marital status over the past 3-years.
I assume he told me to engage me, since I have been ignoring him. I assume he was trying to provoke a response. I have cut him off emotionally. That angst he's been piling on me has to go somewhere.
I wonder if it might be a "good-bye cruel world" type letter?
OW Dad must get ahold of it before OW.
Sorry Redic.
This has a high level of suckage.PS:
I agree with Chris.
Well if it is a �goodbye cruel world� letter it is both a violation of the restraining order and suitable reason for the police to take him in for a 72 hour psychiatric lock-down.
That does not happen often around here.
I just told her dad both things.
**screams**
He can't intercept the mail. They live in different cities. He is calling her and warning her.
I am done explaining anything to him.
I just told her dad both things.
**screams**
He can't intercept the mail. They live in different cities. He is calling her and warning her.
It's a waiting game now.
How far away are his parents?
Maybe they could come pick him up?
He is calling her and warning her.
Sorry Ridic. What a mess.
Waywards and all their drama. They like to clean up spilled milk with backhoes and dynamite.
He is calling her and warning her.
Sorry Ridic. What a mess.
Waywards and all their drama. They like to clean up spilled milk with backhoes and dynamite.
I agree with Chris !
(again)
I posted pix of you and DD (and me and the entire gang) on Facebook !
To find them go to the fan site of that particular restaurant.
HaHa
I just told her dad both things.
**screams**
He can't intercept the mail. They live in different cities. He is calling her and warning her.
It's a waiting game now.
How far away are his parents?
Maybe they could come pick him up?They live 8 minutes away. I just called and told them what he did, and how much trouble he's about to be in.
I think the rock bottom is coming up fast for him right now. He's gonna hit it hard since you aren't going to be there to catch him. How are the girls holding up? What fun thing are you going to do with them tonight(I am just trying to distract you from WH's DRAMA).
Tonight is hip hop class for the little girl, and the big girl and I go shopping during her class.
I am gonna bring the boys with me tonight, too, to have them out of the house, so I guess they'll go shopping, too. Which probably means more of their weird little card game purchases. :lol
Oh the cards. BAKUGAN creators are EVIL.
Shopping with the kids sounds GREAT.
I think Bakugan cards? replicate at night in the dark when we're sleeping. I find them everyone. LOL!
Just the cards? What about those stinking balls? And now they can join together which the kids LOVE but just means they COST MORE.
Well in my day it was little green army men and occasionally gasoline.
But at least we were outside in the fresh air.
I think Bakugan cards? replicate at night in the dark when we're sleeping. I find them everyone. LOL!
The name of the game changes, but the same old same old ... kids and their endless "stuff".
My kids collected (and discarded all over the house)
POGs ... which could kill a vacuum cleaner.
School banning
Because many children would keep the pogs they won in games from other players, many school districts considered Pogs a form of gambling.
Pogs proved to be major distractions from classes and the source of various playground arguments.
These elements eventually led to the banning of pogs from various schools across North America and many western European Countries such as Germany and the U.K .
Oh the kids these days still have little green army men, but those can be bought at the dollar store. These card gameS are outrageously priced and you have to collect a lot and then they come out with new ones. I couldn't even tell you which ones my kids have and which ones they like.
Dragonoid this and aqua that. I am confufulled. They seem to know which ones they have though. I don't know how they remember.
Well in my day it was little green army men and occasionally gasoline.
But at least we were outside in the fresh air.
Tell me this didn't involve ants...
Well in my day it was little green army men and occasionally gasoline.
But at least we were outside in the fresh air.
Well in my day it was little green army men and occasionally gasoline.
But at least we were outside in the fresh air.
I DID. Sorry ants.
DD22 had a mountain of POGS when she was little. They are tough on a vacuum.
Tell me this didn't involve ants...
Ummmmm........no... of course not.
DD22 had a mountain of POGS when she was little. They are tough on a vacuum.
Tell me this didn't involve ants...
Ummmmm........no... of course not.
HA! You hesitated! Just like my brothers, those wax-loving, blood-thirsty insect killers...
Now here is a website I would have liked when I was 10.
Although we found many ways to abuse Estes rockets and many unapproved uses of their engines.
Let's Blow Things UP!!
I allowed our son & his buddy to "camp out" in the back yard on warm summer nights.
Unbeknownst to me, one time, they had a "smoke bomb" ... take a guess !! 
They lit it inside the tent .... set the flammable blanket on fire ... what a night!
But at least they were outside in the fresh air.
But at least they were outside in the fresh air.
I think we should have a moment of silence for all the insects lost, due to having to get out of our mothers' hair...
But at least they were outside in the fresh air.
I made them stay out there.
three sons - legos everywhere.
worms are broughtinside as "pets" and ordered outside almost daily. As are rolly polly bugs and snails..sigh.
Also - nerf gun darts everywhere. and i cant tell you how many times a week I come home
Ridic - your a strong women doing what is needed for your family. Reading your story I am sorry you are here. I generally keep to the safety of the In Recovery board but your story compelled me to comment. Stay strong! As a WS I want to shake other WS and say - wake up stupid....
But at least they were outside in the fresh air.
I think we should have a moment of silence for all the insects lost, due to having to get out of our mothers' hair...
Our mothers had insects in their hair?
But at least they were outside in the fresh air.
I think we should have a moment of silence for all the insects lost, due to having to get out of our mothers' hair...
Our mothers had insects in their hair?
Criminy! I edited it once, trying to word it better - you should've seen what I started with!
!
I liked the idea of moms having insects in their hair.
Once, my Mom was cleaning my room and heard a noise in my lego box. She opened it and found a SNAKE. It was a gardener snake that I was going to sell to my friend for 4 dollars. My Mom HATES snakes(now I do too)
sorry for the t/j rid
Once, my Mom was cleaning my room and heard a noise in my lego box. She opened it and found a SNAKE. It was a gardener snake that I was going to sell to my friend for 4 dollars.
Scotty ! 
I can't even be in the same room as a snake now.
I used to put worms in my mouth to freak out my friends too. I didn't eat them, I spit them out. Now I hate when it rains and I see worms on the sidewalk.
Isn't it funny how we change as we grow?
used to put june bugs in my mouth - carefully - cause I like to feel the fluttering of their wings on the inside of my mouth.
Also used to put a tring around a june bug and keep it as a "pet"
and if I recall rightly - ant have a spicey crunch to them...
and if I recall rightly - ant have a spicey crunch to them...
I'll bet a good old fashioned Texas fire ant has a spicy crunch alright.
used to put june bugs in my mouth - carefully - cause I like to feel the fluttering of their wings on the inside of my mouth.
Is there therapy for that?
Also used to tie a piece of thread around a june bugs leg gently using a slip not and would "walk my pet june bug" used to bump into walls and such
i didnt hurt them...i let them go afterwards...i would put them in my mouth but not close it all the way...you could see the wings flapping between my teeth (kinda like the cat women when she put the penguinds pet bird in her mouth then let it go and it flies out unharmed) it tickled is all thats why I did it.
This of course brings to mind the day I get a call from my neighbor. My youngest is naked in the yard
Hanging his naked butt over the sprinkler
and laughing and going...IT TICKLES....IT TICKLES.
Since we are middle class americans - he had never experienced a budai before...
i used to catch snakes and lizards and keep them as pets...put them on a hot water bottle filled with water = it was the lizards "water bed"...
now I dont MIND worms in my house...its finding worm body parts later that annoys me...best to keep critters outside...little boys leave the grossest things laying around and in their pockets and in their backpacks...Every day is an adventure.
I may have done unspeakable things to lightning bugs when I was little. They glow when you smush them. Or so I've heard.
Okay- today's update. Told him he needed to be out of the house today, and that I don't care where he goes.
he has changed tactics- he would like me to write a letter to his OW, and tell her that I give her permission to speak to him. If I would do that, he would be all better.
I think he's delusional- and doesn't understand that I am not what's keeping her away from him.
He had a doc appointment this morning- don't know how it went. He did tell me that therapy willr esult in the doctor telling him he should be with the other woman and not me, and I shouldn't want him to go to therapy because of that.
He also told me that going to therapy will make him a drug addict. Super.
So, yeah, well.
Okay. He just texted me after therapy and says the the psych told him he is dissastified with me and his relationship with me. But that his relationship with the other woman made him happy and satisfied, and he was willing to risk everything for it.
So, I am not sure what that means for me. I think that's probably bad news.
I think you should talk to his therapist! Sounds like a bag full of poop to me....(ever put poop in a paper bag and trow it when you were little too?)
Im not sure a threapist would say something like that. I think it is a half truth from your WH. He is dissatissfied with his marriage, and the OW did satisfy his needs. His therapist proabably said that. BUT! What else did the therapist say, you know the important part that he is leaving out?
I assume the C was just trying to restate what he is feeling to understand what he is saying, nothing more. He takes that as advice.
Actually this is very good news - it shows he is a completely normal WS, is behaving like they all do, and so the MB program has a great chance of success.
If you read the infidelity articles on here, on how affairs end, the Harleys' say that usually the WS will bargain to keep the OP in the loop somehow.
That is what hubby is doing, and even though he seems completely whacked out to you and I, he is only following the script. WS's get VERY delusional. We have seen some here who want to move the OP in with the spouse and family, who tell their spouse that the spouse would really like the OP, who bring the OP to the HOSPITAL to see their wife's newborn! NOTHING surprises me any more.
Your best bet is to detach from him and go do something useful and more fun, like scrubbing the toilets. Hang in there. Come here and let us know all about his latest delusion.
It is?
Oh my gosh. I just thought it meant the psych was agreeing with him, and telling him I sucked and our marriage sucked, and there he goes.
The therapist is supposed to be really, really good. I just have to believe that the therapist will explain to him that an affair, and that relationship, wasn't real. So what satisfied him could never withstand the reality test.
I mean- look what happened when I exposed. She got a restraining order.
We don't really know what the psych is telling hubby, or what hubby is hearing, but he does need to be in the care of a psych. So that is all good - he is getting the help he needs. The therapist can explain to him about affairs, and that probably won't take right now. But NC is assured, and THAT is what is going to work. Your job is not to go crazy too.
This has got to be horribly stressful, and you need to do whatever you can to protect your heart from his lunacy. Get out and do something fun, spend time with your kids, and trust that MB will work.
He also said the therapist asked him how he would ever know it wouldn't have worked out with the other woman since he didn't leave me and really live with her.
lol...my wife said the same thing to me. How do I really know I love you if I dont see what it is like with OM. this stuff can be scripted sometimes.
That one did not come from a therapist.
lol...my wife said the same thing to me. How do I really know I love you if I dont see what it is like with OM. this stuff can be scripted sometimes.
It's kinda gross. LOL!
He also said the therapist asked him how he would ever know it wouldn't have worked out with the other woman since he didn't leave me and really live with her.
My 2 centavos.
Your H is NOT delusional about what the therapist told him.
Your H is flat out lying about what the therapist told him.
Your H is trying to manipulate you so YOU will give him permission to continue on with OW.
Your H is putting his desires into the therapist's mouth, hoping you are so dumb that you will automatically do what the therapist "suggested".
Ignore him.
Watch what happens.
Say totally unrelated answers.
"Do you think I need highlights in my hair?"
"I saw a sale on turtle food at the pet store."
"Did you ever cook bugs with a magnifying glass?"
He's lying.
Nothing more.
Don't believe his babble. He is delusional.
In truth there ARE some crazy therapists, but since this one is well thought of, I would trust that he is a good one.
Hubby is bound and determined to keep his fantasy going. He is pulling out all stops to have YOU write lies to the OW, say his therapist agrees with his actions, blah, blah, blah.
Ever known a junkie? They will lie, steal, sell their mother to get their fix. Think of hubby as a junkie and stick to your guns.
Has hubby always been this manipulative?
lol...my wife said the same thing to me. How do I really know I love you if I dont see what it is like with OM. this stuff can be scripted sometimes.
That one did not come from a therapist.
I hope not. It makes me anxious.
I hope not. It makes me anxious.
He is lying
All WS suffer from the same ailment: liarrhea
Main Entry: li·ar·rhea
Function: noun
1 : abnormally frequent verbal evacuations of untruths
He was never like this before. Ever.
Okay- today's update. Told him he needed to be out of the house today, and that I don't care where he goes.
I hope not. It makes me anxious.
He is lyingHe has to be. I need him to be.
He was never like this before. Ever.
An addict lies.
Hopefully, the "drug addiction" from the therapist will kick in within 2 weeks.
OMG Pep! You cannot be sooooooooo funny this early in the morning!!!!!
Hubby: "Therapist asked me how I would ever know it wouldn't have worked out with the other woman since I didn't leave you and really live with her."
RS: "Interesting, dear. Have you ever cooked bugs with a magnifying glass?"
Okay- today's update. Told him he needed to be out of the house today, and that I don't care where he goes.
Yes. He violated no contact and he is torturing me mentally.
OMG Pep! You cannot be sooooooooo funny this early in the morning!!!!!
Hubby: "Therapist asked me how I would ever know it wouldn't have worked out with the other woman since I didn't leave you and really live with her."
RS: "Interesting, dear. Have you ever cooked bugs with a magnifying glass?"
LOL!!! And served them with pasta?
He was never like this before. Ever.
An addict lies.
Hopefully, the "drug addiction" from the therapist will kick in within 2 weeks.
So- knowing this, and knowing how he is, having him away from me is exactly the right move.
LOL!!! And served them with pasta?
You know, don't you, that I love your evil side. I'm bad.
As you serve him a glass of lemonaid:
"Did you know, in some cultures, people drink their urine?"
>smile sweetly<
At this point, if drinking urine would help him, I'll start an IV drip. LOL!
He was never like this before. Ever.
Aliens had never abducted him before.
Ok. So group consensus- liar, liar pants ( not ants) on fire.
Ignore, ignore, ignore.
He was never like this before. Ever.
Aliens had never abducted him before.
Very good point!
At this point, if drinking urine would help him, I'll start an IV drip. LOL!
He's obsessed. (well, duh, why don't you state the obvious Pep?)
You don't stand in front of his obsession where he can run you over.
(do not respond to his obsession)
You stand aside.
(you respond with off the wall weird distractions that function like shiny sparkly things off to the side)
Any response to his bullcrap fuels the train.
Ridic --
Your thread is hilarious!
Yes -- liar, liar.
He thinks he is quite clever and is going to get your permission to go try things out with OW.
What he doesn't understand is that he is a big boy. And he never needed your permission. If he wanted OW so badly -- hmmm...I guess he could have divorced you and gone after her.
But what is he actually DOING? whining.
Your husband is a toddler. Throwing a terrible 2 tantrum.
I think a time-out (leave the house) is exactly what needs to happen.
There is no good reason for you to listen to his whining.
At this point, if drinking urine would help him, I'll start an IV drip. LOL!
He's obsessed. (well, duh, why don't you state the obvious Pep?)
You don't stand in front of his obsession where he can run you over.
(do not respond to his obsession)
You stand aside.
(you respond with off the wall weird distractions that function like shiny sparkly things off to the side)
Any response to his bullcrap fuels the train.
I may need to print this out and get this tattooed on my hand. I struggle a little with this. I am a logical person. This level of illogic makes my brain itchy.
Ok. So group consensus- liar, liar pants ( not ants) on fire.
Ignore, ignore, ignore.
Paying attention to them, makes the tantrum worth their time.
They up the ante when you first ignore them.
But, without your attention, the tantrum extinguishes all the sooner.
In 2 weeks, once the meds kick in, this will change.
But until then, he's a big baby kicking and screaming on the floor.
In fact, next time he says something stupid, put this mental picture of WH in your brain ...
HIM wearing a droopy diaper sucking his thumb and whining.
LOL Lexxxy and Pep ... one brain shared by two !!!
Lexxy-
You're right. I have to fight the urge to tell him that contrary to his whining, he will, in fact, get over this, and his life, is not, in fact ruined. And that normal people do not spend the rest of their lives in the fetal position in the corner over their affair partner who has a restraining order out against him.
But that doesn't do any good at all right now.
So, I will bite my tongue bloody and become a human hand tied fishing lure when I am in his presence. Sparkly and fluffy and ignoring the crazy talk.
The diaper is absolutely huge. Because he is the biggest baby ever.
LOL -- too funny!
Love the mental image of him sucking his thumb with a droopy diaper!
Ridic -- instead of trying to fight your urges and getting annoyed, just giggle at him (inside your head, of course).
Just hear wah..wah..wah. Who cares what he has to say, really?
Its all so very ridiculous.
Quick WS perspective here...really dont react to his lies or try to show him he is a dumb@ss liar...cause he BELIEVES his lies.
For every one lie he tells you...he his telling himself three or four lies in his head to support the one lie he tells you...because at one point he was a funtioning resonable male adult with a brain that worked.. He is lieing to himself building up a basis for what he says.
And a person who is that deluded and lost just deserves pitty really. When he is talking picutre the craziest weirdo fanatic you can picture...you know the type...they talk about when they were abducted and were probed by aliens and how the space ship came out of the sky and picked them up...
My favorite weird comment out of no where
"Did you know that isolated protypes of a crosssection of societal behavior patterns indicate the generational trends begin in the primary stages of adolesence?"
I had to memorize that line for a play in junior high where I played a brainy kid and it has served me well low these many years as the perfect HUH statement...
Now I was quickly defogged by the OM and his friends raping me. I dont advocate this but if your WS violates the restraining order then the OW has him put in jail...well that might be what he needs. a WAKE UP DUMBY...you are SERIOUSLY screwing up your life smack on the head.
WS spouse out - like I said I normally keep to the in recovery thread but your thread ...I hate to see you struggeling like this. and you do have great great great help!
We had 12+ inches of snow in Denver last night. It was a 2-hour shoveling job to get out of the subdivision. I finally made it to work and nobody is here.
Now this:
He also said the therapist asked him how he would ever know it wouldn't have worked out with the other woman since he didn't leave me and really live with her.
That's one of the dumbest craptacular pantloads I ever heard. This guy is running for King of the Village Idiots.
Really? The therapist is advocating adultery? I don�t think a licensed therapist would go there. Talk about twisting words!
Are you sure the therapist even knew of the adultery before he met with he/she? If not WH may never have brought it up.
We have those threads around here where we howl at the dumbest Fogenese our waywards ever made but your WH really has a shot for the gold.
He also told me that going to therapy will make him a drug addict. Super.
He did tell me that therapy will result in the doctor telling him he should be with the other woman and not me, and I shouldn't want him to go to therapy because of that.
He just texted me after therapy and says the the psych told him he is dissastified with me and his relationship with me. But that his relationship with the other woman made him happy and satisfied, and he was willing to risk everything for it.
This guy wants Craig Ferguson�s job!
And that normal people do not spend the rest of their lives in the fetal position in the corner over their affair partner who has a restraining order out against him.
I loved this line. You may not have noticed it but I appreciate humor while under fire. I think you have what it takes to make it one way or the other Ridic.
Well Rid, I am glad that some awesome people were on here to help you through that minor ugly patch. Those things that your WH said were humourous to say the least. I had a few LOL moments. I am sure this isn't the worst things ever said but WOW.
You are doing GREAT. Keep it up. All I am picturing now is you serving cooked ants on pasta, with urine in a glass to a man child in a diaper sucking his thumb.
he has changed tactics- he would like me to write a letter to his OW, and tell her that I give her permission to speak to him. If I would do that, he would be all better.
Maybe not a bad plan.
Dear Crack Ho OW,
My darling husband has come crawling to me to ask my permission for him to speak to you. Apparently he will be able to get up of the floor and act like a big boy again if I do this. After some consideration and the need to vacuum the corner he is in (damn, there is a big drool spot too) I have agreed under the following conditions. You will only be allowed to use the following words and phrases in either spoken or written form.
The approved words and phrases:
You
Lop-eared
Dumb
Pile of
Lying
Again
[censored]
Hell
To see
Idiotic
Bug eating
Behind Bars
Member
Cops
Lying [censored]
Thumb-sucking
Deceiving
Want to
Crack addict
Call the
Straight to
Your
Son of a
Feces encrusted
Bag of
Selfish
Fetal position
B@stard
Restraining Order
I never
Pus dripping
You can
:End of allowed words.
I hope this allows the two of you to have a constructive conversation. I look forward to my husband standing up like a real man again soon.
Love and kisses you diseased tart,
Ridic
Do you really want him after all this? Would you ever truly be able to forget? Don't you deserve better? I think you do.
You have tried everything you could and then some. He is doing this cause he can.
You told him to get out that day, did he? If not, what was the reason? If he gave you some sort of excuse and you let him stay, to him, that means your not serious. We all know you are but this guy is way past delusional. He justifies everything. After awhile, your posts made me fear for your safety. You might think he isn't the type to do that but was he the type to do this?
If you could fix it all right now, could you get past this? I wonder if even the two of you worked through it, if he would ever get past it. If he would continue to use this to bully you and clobber you over the head with anytime he doesn't get what he wants. He is even delusional about what the psychiatrist tells him. I am sure this person tells him one thing but he puts the words he wants to hear in their mouths.
Chrisner? You speak my language. That's pretty much all I could think of to write. It would go along those lines.
Rainbowmom-
I don't seem serious? Huh. I thought I've taken huge steps to show him that I'm serious. And I thought me being serious is partof what's driving this crisis.
I've gotten feedback on here that shows me that although this is painful and horrible, that this is not completely unexpected.
I've never feared for my safety, or my children's safety, not even for a minute.
I amnot making excuses for him, but he is clearly a depressive person, and has been untreated for a long time. He used the OW as a salve, but it fell apart, and now he's cracking, and he's cracking because there's a heckuva lot more pathology there than just the end of an affair.
Will it work in the end?
I have no idea. But I believe my husband is still in there, somewhere, and I'm still willing to fight and see if he can come back out.
Well Rid, I am glad that some awesome people were on here to help you through that minor ugly patch. Those things that your WH said were humourous to say the least. I had a few LOL moments. I am sure this isn't the worst things ever said but WOW.
You are doing GREAT. Keep it up. All I am picturing now is you serving cooked ants on pasta, with urine in a glass to a man child in a diaper sucking his thumb.
Mmm. Dinnertime?
LOL!
Rainbow mom
He's not himself. He absolutely has a chance to redeem himself and cringe with shame and humilitation every time he remembers how he treated Ridic after they're firmly in recovery.
I have to say, Ridic, that even though I know your situation is very hard and very serious, I'm impressed with how you're handling it, and that you can see the humor. And you've given our resident comedians ample ammunition!
You don't have to decide if you want him now or not. You just have to get through this however that is, see how things progress. You hold the power, this situation is yours to do with what you want. I admire your composure, strength and fortitude while taking care of the biggest whiney, foolish and ridiculous idiot.
Keep your chin up, keep moving forward, and remember remember remember to take care of yourself!!!!!
You took everything I said the aboslute wrong way. Since I have been married, never have my words been twisted more but I never meant any negative by them. The way he is acting, being so emotionally abusive and just rubbing your face in his affair is terrible and you deserve more. To tell his wife that this other woman is the 'be all, end all' is just wrong. What about your feelings? What about your emotions?
Hmmm, never doing this again.
rainbowmomof2,
Just so you know, OW really is like crack to RS's WH. He is going through a major detox right now and begging for more crack.
She is trying to give him a chance to see what will happen once he gets through WD....I think she is aware she needs to have boundaries and limitations with his behavior. I don't think anyone is trying to twist what you said, but we need to support RS right now. OK?
RS, my sister's H was deeply entrenched in his A and really behaved shockingly bad following exposure and during WD. Once he got through it he really did make a turn around. I will ask her to drop by your thread. Hang in there!
Rainbow mom, chillax!
All I meant was that I think she should wait and see after the stupidness wears off- just like SusieQ said.
I'm glad my BH didnt' just give up on me when I was spewing idiocies.
Of course, I was no where as idiotic as ridic's WH, just wanted that on record.
G-mornin' Ridic
How are the kids doing?
How are you doing?
I'm doing okay. The kids are okay.
I went shopping most of today, keeping busy.
He told me he is planning one emailing her today, to get "closure". This following the letter, which gained him no response from her. He texted me that he is aware he could end up in jail.
So? Am ignoring, going dark. He's texted me about 30 times today.
I'm very busy and important today. I don't have anything to say to him. And that's my plan for today.
He told me he is planning one emailing her today, to get "closure".
Do it right away.
I'm very busy and important today. I don't have anything to say to him. And that's my plan for today.
Do not respond.
Continue to expose.
He will be arrested.
Stand as far back as possible.I am SO SORRY.
Come here when you want to spew cooked red ants at him.
A letter yesterday.
An email today.
A phone call tomorrow.
Then, he shows up.
I will not be surprised to learn he's been following her.
AKA stalking.
OW has a LOT to be afraid of.
He's more of a threat to her.
If WH gets arrested, BE SURE that YOU tell the police he needs to be on suicide watch.
He's expressed "suicidal ideations."
That way, he might find himself where he most needs to be ... a psychiatric in-patient facility on a 72 hour hold.
THIS is CALIFORNIA law. Look up 72 hour hold in your state.
A. 72-HOUR HOLD
California law allows police (and certain other designated mental health professionals) to take you into custody if they believe that, due to a mental disorder, you are:
1. A danger to yourself, and/or 2. A danger to others, and/or 3. Gravely disabled. (Grave disability is defined as: �a condition in which a
person, as a result of a mental disorder, is unable to provide for his or her basic personal needs for food, clothing or shelter.�)
At that time, the person taking you into custody must take reasonable pre- cautions to safeguard your property. Also, he or she must advise you that this is not a criminal arrest, and allow you to gather some personal things to bring with you, and allow you to make a phone call.
Under this law, you are taken to a psychiatric hospital. There, the profes- sional staff may detain you for up to 72 hours if they, too, find that you meet the above criteria (danger to self, danger to others, and/or grave disability due to a mental disorder.)
You must be given written notice of why you are being held. While you are being detained for up to 72 hours, the hospital must evaluate you. This evalu- ation consists of a multidisciplinary analysis of your medical, psychological, educational, social, financial and legal situation.
A similar law allows the police (or designated others) to take you into cus- tody if they think you meet the above criteria due to chronic alcoholism.
I'm doing okay. The kids are okay.
I went shopping most of today, keeping busy.
He told me he is planning one emailing her today, to get "closure". This following the letter, which gained him no response from her. He texted me that he is aware he could end up in jail.
So? Am ignoring, going dark. He's texted me about 30 times today.
I'm very busy and important today. I don't have anything to say to him. And that's my plan for today.
This is just getting ridiculous. If I were there I'd slap him in the face and tell him to get a f*ing grip.
Okay. Stop. Sorry, rid, that's not helping you. You need to report this contact to her father. Sounds like WH needs some tough love.
Way to go Ridic. I know what your poster name means but all I could think of while reading your thread was Riddick, the Vin Diesel character that kicked everyone's butt.
You are doing great.
Yeah...nothing like CLOSURE
Seriously -- what does he do for a living? Doesn't he work?
How does he have time to send you 30 texts, and compose JUST the right email to OW for CLOSURE?
What is your boundry Rid?
Its OK to go to Plan B any ol time you want.
We'll help you get ready.
You aren't required to watch him hit rock bottom. He is free to do that all on his own. You can seperate yourself from his dramafest whenever your Plan tells you that you are ready.
He texted me that he is aware he could end up in jail.
But it's all in the name of LUUUUUURV!
I think Ernest T Bass got locked up a few times for stalking Charlene Darling too.
Yeah...nothing like CLOSURE
I would think a restraining order is closure enough.
Wayzilla and Gollum tried closure a couple times I think. It didn't take. Their naughty bits kept getting in the way.
What is your boundry Rid?
Its OK to go to Plan B any ol time you want.
We'll help you get ready.
You aren't required to watch him hit rock bottom. He is free to do that all on his own. You can seperate yourself from his dramafest whenever your Plan tells you that you are ready.
Agreed. Have you let him know that contact of any type (closure or not) is a dealbreaker for you?
My view ~~~> how Plan B is most likely to commence ... starts with either an arrest, or a 72 hour hold.
IMO, this changes the Plan B slightly.
Just waiting to see ....
Yup, back in my pre-MB days, when my DH was looking for closure and after he had his "closure" visit, I found out that he continued to follow her, call her, have flowers delivered to her door, etc. He was SOOOO lucky he didn't get arrested. Instead, I get a VM from her BFF warning my DH to stay away. The humilation was enough for him.
Had I known about MB, at his FIRST suggestion of a closure face-to-face meeting, I would have shown him the door, handed him a Plan B letter, and told him to have a nice life.
Okay- you guys are the best. Just opening this and seeing the support and faith is making me feel like I can get through this. I cannot thank you enough for that. **end mush**
I warned dad about email. He and OW looked at it, OW immediately mailed WH with "Do not ever contact me again, in any way."
Then dad said "Strike two. Next stop- District Attorney's office. Never contact my daughter or any member of our family again".
WH melted down. Came to the house. I met him in the garage, so he wouldn't come in and disturb the kids. He blamed me for ruining his life, and making her hate him. He said if he had been able to tell her the trth about who he was, she would have stayed with him, and loved him forever. But I ruined that with exposure.
He told me he would have picked her over me. He would have left us all and stayed with her forever, but I took that away from him.
Then he started to cry and told me he loved me and he wanted to be with me, but I ruined everything. Then he said he still wanted to try with me, he just didn't know how because I ruined his life.
At this point, my dad came out and asked him to leave. And he did.
I woke up to 40 text messages, in varying degrees of insanity.
Have not replied to any.
It? Was a bad day yesterday.
Lexxy- he owns his own company. He has a lot of managers running the individual sites.
He's a very smart person, and his job isn't particularly challenging. I think it's a factor in all of this, on some level.
Wow, the guy is sure insistent. You are doing wonderfully well.
Personally I wouldn't even read the text messages. He is lucky you are even considering making the marriage work. One day he will thank you for sticking this out and will be mortified by his behavior.
Just keep thinking of him as a crack addict - he wants his CRACK!!!!!! And he is not going to appreciate anyone interfering with his addiction.
Let's hope that he won't end up in jail, but that's what it might take.
I need to just delete and not read them. That's a very good idea.
There was a funny one, in there, though. Apparently? He doesn't like the paint colors I picked for our kitchen.
I am not kidding.
There was a funny one, in there, though. Apparently? He doesn't like the paint colors I picked for our kitchen.
No, of course he didn't, and it's also your fault that those paint colours were ever manufactured in the first place.
I wonder if he will like the color the inside of the jail is painted?
Ridic, let him be for awhile. If you are concerned for his safety, you can call his family to let them know what is going on. The best thing you can do it let him hit bottom...sooner rather than later. Don't get swept up by emotion of trying to fix him. You can still offer comfort to him but not in the way that will keep him wayward.
Hi there, Ridic. SusieQ asked me to look in on your thread. I just read through about 20 pages. Wow. Sounds like you're doing fantastic, did a great exposure and all. I don't know if I can say much that is going to help you, you're getting lots of great advice here.
But I can tell you that my WH went crazy after exposure, said and did lots of insane things. But after a few weeks into WD, he told me that he was glad that I did what I did because he wouldn't have been able to break free on his own.
He has also said he felt so much better without OW in his life, and he said he wasn't himself during that time. When I asked him about the time after exposure when he damaged our stuff (ripped one door off a kitchen cabinet, some drums), he admitted he did it at the time to scare me so he could be allowed to continue his A. Fortunately I didn't fall for it - I simply told him I would call the police if he did it again - and I continued to keep the bar high in order for him to stay in the house, in spite of all his verbal/emotional abuse, the constant texting, etc. He looks back now and he's appalled by what he said and did. He cannot believe it.
I say this so you can keep hope that your H will return someday soon. It's possible he may have to hit rock bottom first, but he will come back.
You are doing great. Good luck!
Ridic --
I just LOVE your sense of humor!
I just have to ask -- what color IS the kitchen??
Ridic --
I just LOVE your sense of humor!
I just have to ask -- what color IS the kitchen??
It's a tuscan burnt orange with two walls of deep red for contrast.
Everyone else who sees it loves it.
but clearly..... LOL!
Moving Forward-
I cannot tell you how much reading what you just wrote helps me. It does. Thank you so much. It gives me hope that he's in there somewhere.
Black Raven-
That's my plan. More space from me, rejection from her- hopefully brings the bottom of the cliff up to his face, and fast.
I wonder if he will like the color the inside of the jail is painted?
He likes white walls apparently. And maybe white jackets? :0
Saw this in one of the affair articles here -
"The problem that R.J. may soon face is that his wife's cheerful attitude will wear thin. There's no telling how much longer she can try to please him without an approving response from him. Sometimes I tell spouses to just avoid each other until the withdrawal stage passes because all the effort to be kind and thoughtful is easily wasted until they start feeling better."
Be prepared to get somewhat discouraged with hubby's craziness. Hope you are taking great care of your needs and doing special things for yourself.
tuscan burnt orange....Everyone else who sees it loves it.
See, I knew if I waited long enough my 1970's orange shag carpet in the family room would come back in style.
I am going to call it Tuscan Burnt Orange from now on. In fact there are some burns on it. (Not from ant fires)
WH melted down. Came to the house. I met him in the garage, so he wouldn't come in and disturb the kids.
He blamed me for ruining his life,
.... because YOU have that power over other people's emotions.
(HINT: subliminal message ~~~> YOU are powerful while WH and OW are very weak)
He said if he had been able to tell her the truth about who he was, she would have stayed with him, and loved him forever.
But I ruined that with exposure.
He told me he would have picked her over me. He would have left us all and stayed with her forever, but I took that away from him.
.
... because you are in control of everything ... all the time. Always was. Ridic, you forgot this and told me he loved me and he wanted to be with me, but I ruined everything.
Understand now? Then he said he still wanted to try with me, he just didn't know how because I ruined his life.
At this point, my dad came out and asked him to leave.
I woke up to 40 text messages, in varying degrees of insanity.
It? Was a bad day yesterday.
It was exhausting, I'm sure. However, the outcome was excellent !
He's falling
(he needs to) and you're not falling
(you chose to rise above).
WELL DONE YOU !
"... if you hadn't ruined everything he's be with OW who would love him forever ... but he would still be with you because he wants to be with you, except when he wants to be with her, when you ruined everything, is when he did but did not want to be with you because he wanted to be with her but you ruined everything.
Understand now?"
Pep, you explained it PERFECTLY. You ought to go into speech writing.
"... if you hadn't ruined everything he's be with OW who would love him forever ... but he would still be with you because he wants to be with you, except when he wants to be with her, when you ruined everything, is when he did but did not want to be with you because he wanted to be with her but you ruined everything.
Understand now?"
Pep, you explained it PERFECTLY. You ought to go into speech writing.
"... if you hadn't ruined everything he's be with OW who would love him forever ... but he would still be with you because he wants to be with you, except when he wants to be with her, when you ruined everything, is when he did but did not want to be with you because he wanted to be with her but you ruined everything."
Did you write the health reform bill?
Apparently? He doesn't like the paint colors I picked for our kitchen.
I am not kidding.
There was one wayward who ...
told their betrayed spouse
"You bought the wrong soda"
(Pepsi instead of Coke) ...
and
that
was
what
caused
adultery
There was a funny one, in there, though. Apparently? He doesn't like the paint colors I picked for our kitchen.
I am not kidding.
TM #26: Tuscan Burnt Orange ruined my Li-Li-Li-f-f-f-f-f-e-e-eeeeee�.sniff
I am super mighty and powerful, Pepper! I can control other people's thoughts- even people I've never met before! Woot!!!!
The whole thing is so ridiculous. In some ways, it was very, very hard not to laugh.
And your explanation of what he meant?
I am pretty sure that's exactly what he meant. You just said it prettier.
Apparently? He doesn't like the paint colors I picked for our kitchen.
I am not kidding.
There was one wayward who ...
told their betrayed spouse
"You bought the wrong soda"
(Pepsi instead of Coke) ...
and
that
was
what
caused
adultery
I am a Diet Dr. Pepper type of girl. Woe is me.
Saw this in one of the affair articles here -
"The problem that R.J. may soon face is that his wife's cheerful attitude will wear thin. There's no telling how much longer she can try to please him without an approving response from him. Sometimes I tell spouses to just avoid each other until the withdrawal stage passes because all the effort to be kind and thoughtful is easily wasted until they start feeling better."
Be prepared to get somewhat discouraged with hubby's craziness. Hope you are taking great care of your needs and doing special things for yourself.
I am trying very hard to take good care of myself. About a year ago, I finally lost the last bit of my baby weight, so I am enjoying my new hobby of buying all new clothes. LOL!
The Tuscan burnt orange. Marriage killer.
Who knew?
They should put a warning on that stuff!
I am a Diet Dr. Pepper type of girl.
Hey Pep- NOT nice I LOVE DrPEPPER.
Oh RID- I LOVE reading your thread. Your humour(yes I know I spelled it with a "U" it is ENGLISH
) in your sitch is so refreshing. That was the first signs to me that I was coming out of this horrible thing, because I got my humour back. It's a sign of great strength that you have kept it all along.
You are MARVELOUS.
Dr Pepper is NOT made from prune juice !
I love Dr. Pepper.
Who said I didn't?
It DOES taste like prune juice.
I love the taste of prune juice.
I never realized that it tasted like prune juice. Either the prune juice we get up here doesn't taste like yours or our DrPepper tastes different.
I didn't know that there was a whole thing about the taste of DrPepper. Thanx for the link. I learn so much from you Cliff Claven. I will put that in my vault of useless info that I amaze my friends with. They tell me I am a well of USELESS information.
oh crap -- I have a burnt orange in my dining room. And it might be TUSCAN.
Anyone have suggestions on safe marriage-approved color schemes?
Oh wait...I'm not married. I can have any color I want. hehehe.
LOL Lexxxy, me too!!!!!!!!!
When my ex left, I did my bedroom all in eggplant - paint, curtains, spread, pillows, lamps and hanging mosquito net thingy. It looked like a prostitute lived there. Luckily I got through that phase.
When my ex left, I did my bedroom all in eggplant - paint, curtains, spread, pillows, lamps and hanging mosquito net thingy. It looked like a prostitute lived there. Luckily I got through that phase.
Prostitute Purple Passion Palace of Pleasure.
I do not believe I have ever partaken in prune juice.
Huh. Who knew?
Hey Pep- NOT nice I LOVE DrPEPPER.
Oh RID- I LOVE reading your thread. Your humour(yes I know I spelled it with a "U" it is ENGLISH
) in your sitch is so refreshing. That was the first signs to me that I was coming out of this horrible thing, because I got my humour back. It's a sign of great strength that you have kept it all along.
You are MARVELOUS.
Aw, thanks. I needed to hear that. It's a nice change from hearing that I am quite possibly the most evil woman alive.
I enjoy being told I am evil these days because it is a good kind of evil. My new nickname is "EVIL GENIUS" although it is through the things that Pep, Neak, Not and others have suggested for me to do. So join the ranks of EVIL, we have room and you are FUNNY.
I enjoy being told I am evil these days because it is a good kind of evil. My new nickname is "EVIL GENIUS" although it is through the things that Pep, Neak, Not and others have suggested for me to do. So join the ranks of EVIL, we have room and you are FUNNY.
I am starting to think that Evil is way better company than Wayward. LOL!
The Waywards are just way too stressful, man. They harsh my groove.
This weekend was more of the same. I ignored mostly. Saw him for a little on Sunday. He swung wildly back and forth- between telling me how much he loves me, and telling me he can't possibly believe that I would love him, because if I loved him, I wouldn't have calculated to "ruin his life" the way I did.
He said he hurt me unintentionally, so it's better than how I hurt him.
Whatever. Talk to the hand.
He also says he won't take his meds. I said that's his choice.
I copied a bunch of the pertinent text messages he's sent about hurting himself and his depression, and sent them to his doctor.
And then I copied his parents.
They can care for him. I am not the right person. He is too angry at me to be evern 10% reasonable, and I need to focus on my kids, and on myself.
I know he sees my pain as far lesser than his, but I actually am the victim here. Hard to believe, but it is true.
I enjoy being told I am evil these days because it is a good kind of evil. My new nickname is "EVIL GENIUS" although it is through the things that Pep, Neak, Not and others have suggested for me to do. So join the ranks of EVIL, we have room and you are FUNNY.
I am starting to think that Evil is way better company than Wayward. LOL!
The Waywards are just way too stressful, man. They harsh my groove.
We sure are better company.
Wayturds really are a downer.
So, what fun things did you do with the kiddies this weekend? I took the boys to see "How to train a dragon" on Saturday. It was a cute little movie. The main character's name is Hiccup.
[I am going to call it Tuscan Burnt Orange from now on. In fact there are some burns on it. (Not from ant fires)
Yes, but: is there any melted wax in it?
I copied a bunch of the pertinent text messages he's sent about hurting himself and his depression, and sent them to his doctor.
And then I copied his parents.
![[Linked Image from millan.net]](http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/grouphugg.gif)
it was so ... the "Evil Genius" virus spread amongst the wimmenz.
The "Evil Genius" club. I am GLAD I am a member.
Even if I am just a junior member and only have my learner's permit.
the "Evil Genius" virus spread amongst the wimmenz.
I think I've been kicked off the thread!
*sniff*
He also says he won't take his meds. I said that's his choice.
![[Linked Image from millan.net]](http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/peppiokay.gif)
And, another item goes on the "requirements to come home" list.
the "Evil Genius" virus spread amongst the wimmenz.
I think I've been kicked off the thread!
*sniff*
You can stay.
the "Evil Genius" virus spread amongst the wimmenz.
I think I've been kicked off the thread!
*sniff*
NAH Chrisner, you are GENIUS too, just not in an EVIL sorta way.
He said he hurt me unintentionally, so it's better than how I hurt him.
Waywards like to keep score.
2pts to betrayed for sex in your car with OP.
1pt to betrayed for sexting OP.
1 pt to betrayed per every 1,000 TM's to OP.
817 pts to wayward for exposure.
Ah yes, but I do remember Wayzilla's Scarlette O'Hara, "Ah nevah meant to hurt you."
Waywards, you can't live with them and they make poor plow oxen.
Chrisner, it's called EVIL GENIUS. HEHEHEHEHE
Besides is it an isult to cry like a gurl. We cry the bestest
He said he hurt me unintentionally, so it's better than how I hurt him.
Waywards like to keep score.
2pts to betrayed for sex in your car.
1pt to betrayed for sexting.
1 pt to betrayed per every 1,000 TM's to OP.
817 pts to wayward for exposure.
Ah yes, but I do remember Wayzilla's Scarlette O'Hara, "Ah nevah meant to hurt you."
Waywards, you can't live with them and they make poor plow horses.
Here's some more:
1 pt to the betrayed for finding the Wayward in bed with the OP
467 pts for the Wayward for being found in bed with the OP by the BS. It's a gross invasion of the OP's privacy!!!
.1 pt to the Betrayed for the wayward spending time with the OP
75 pts to the Wayward for the Betrayed calling the wayward on their timespent with the OP
1898 pts to the Wayward when the Betrayed reports the OP's whereabouts to the division of child support enforcement
450 pts to the Wayward when the Betrayed cuts off financial support and refuses to finance the affair
For those of us keeping score at home, in my exWW's view, she is leading about 2456 - 3 in injustices done. In court, where it matters, PSUBIKER is 6-0-1.
Oxen would be more useful to me at this point. For real. LOL!
I am a world class girly girl crying champion. I even cry at cartoons. True story.
We sure are better company.
Wayturds really are a downer.
So, what fun things did you do with the kiddies this weekend? I took the boys to see "How to train a dragon" on Saturday. It was a cute little movie. The main character's name is Hiccup.
We saw that Saturday! So fun! Saturday night we had a party at a friend's house, so we all trucked over there and hung out with pizza and watched the basketball tourney.
Sunday- I took the kids clothes shopping for spring. And some for mama. It was super fun!
I'd like to lodge a formal complaint about the Wayward Scoring System. Wonder where I'd address that letter?
I'd like to lodge a formal complaint about the Wayward Scoring System. Wonder where I'd address that letter?
You can't. Only waywards can lodge a formal complaint. Anyways, any issues are automatically your fault.
Okay.
So- last night- he comes over again, late. I didn't catch him in the garage, because I was asleep in bed, so he got up to me. Thankfully, my kids were asleep.
He tells me he love me so much, but that he is giving up on us, and moving to an apartment ( he's at his parents' house now). He is doing this to spare me watching him fall apart, because he will never ever be able to give up on her, or move on, or function, and he doesn't want to hurt me or the kids.
I don't get a chance to say anything, and then he launches into "because you hurt me in a way I can never get over by telling my OW the truth about the relationship, and I cannot forgive you for taking that control".
At this point, I say "Okay".
At that point, he starts arguing that I must not love him very much if I am just going to give up so easily and not fight for him.
So I tell him I've never been ready to give up on him, and it was my plan to fight for us forever.
Then he says " Why shouldn't I fight for her forever?"
I say I have no answer.
He proceeds to get upset with me and tell me how I have all this control over his life, and he can't stand it. I tell him he has control, he just has to take steps to get better.
He keeps telling me that I won. I ruined his life.
I asked him to leave. I told him he couldn't be in the house, because he's not doing what we agreed to.
He left.
I woke up to three phone messages about how much he loves me and wants me.
And a helluva lot of text messages.
Um, so, what do I do now?
Move to Tulsa? Leave no forwarding address? And buy a new puppy? Because seriously? That's about where I'm at.
I'd like to lodge a formal complaint about the Wayward Scoring System. Wonder where I'd address that letter?
You can't. Only waywards can lodge a formal complaint. Anyways, any issues are automatically your fault.
See, I'm really not liking this setup. It seems inherently tilted towards nitwits.
LOL!
Okay.
So- last night- he comes over again, late. I didn't catch him in the garage, because I was asleep in bed, so he got up to me. Thankfully, my kids were asleep.
He tells me he love me so much, but that he is giving up on us, and moving to an apartment ( he's at his parents' house now). He is doing this to spare me watching him fall apart, because he will never ever be able to give up on her, or move on, or function, and he doesn't want to hurt me or the kids.
I don't get a chance to say anything, and then he launches into "because you hurt me in a way I can never get over by telling my OW the truth about the relationship, and I cannot forgive you for taking that control".
At this point, I say "Okay".
At that point, he starts arguing that I must not love him very much if I am just going to give up so easily and not fight for him.
So I tell him I've never been ready to give up on him, and it was my plan to fight for us forever.
Then he says " Why shouldn't I fight for her forever?"
I say I have no answer.
He proceeds to get upset with me and tell me how I have all this control over his life, and he can't stand it. I tell him he has control, he just has to take steps to get better.
He keeps telling me that I won. I ruined his life.
I asked him to leave. I told him he couldn't be in the house, because he's not doing what we agreed to.
He left.
I woke up to three phone messages about how much he loves me and wants me.
And a helluva lot of text messages.
Um, so, what do I do now?
Move to Tulsa? Leave no forwarding address? And buy a new puppy? Because seriously? That's about where I'm at.
I don't know how you do it. You get the BS Award for Patience for the month of March.
What do you do now? What you've been doing. He's not going to move into an apartment. He is currently residing at Rock Bottom, USA. Nowhere to go but up for him.
He is going to be so embarrassed when he looks back on these days.
Is the BS Patience award big enough to cover the Evil Affair Killer T-Shirt he's making me wear?
Do you know?
I can't actually imagine him moving into an apartment, either. But there's a small part of me that thinks it might be good for him. I don't think he realizes just how alone he would be.
Keep doing fun things for yourself and kids, because it sure doesn't sound fun to be around him. I'm proud of you, pat yourself on the back! Continue with your broken record answer - "I will do whatever it takes to protect our family".
He is going exactly by the MB WS in withdrawal model so have lots of hope that the program will work.
My ex could only last 24 hours without contact and that was enough to drive me bonkers. I finally told him that he got himself into the mess and he could get himself out. I admire your fortitude.
Just my $.02 here.....
You need to go to a dark dark plan B. Don't read texts, change the locks on the door, don't interact with him AT ALL. He's getting something from you...even though he doesn't even know what it is....so don't give it to him.
Set up an intermediary who can filter all unimportant crap (anything other than necessary financial or child stuff)- and not have all the craziness
filter through.
All his drama is going to seriously put your love bank in the red (even more than it probably already is).
Your patience with all this is admirable, and you sound like you're doing as well as possible, but I know this is all icky and hard and you deserve a BREAK!!!! Glad to hear of the retail therapy, by the way. And I want to go see that dragon movie with the kids this week!
And Chrisner is too evil, he's the one with the woodchipper!!!
Um, so, what do I do now?
Change the locks.
Tell his parents AFTER you've changed the locks that their son entered the house while everyone was asleep - in order to wake up his wife to tell her how much she sucks and how much he loves OW.
Seriously.
Change the locks.
Is it legal to lock him out of his own house?
Probably not.
WH's too mentally disordered to actually do anything about it.
And, change the garage door code while you're at it.
Can your Father move in with you for a few nights?
THAT would be my alternative suggestion if you don't want to change the locks.
(imagine WH entering the house in order to harass you and finding your Dad there *** priceless ***)
Is the BS Patience award big enough to cover the Evil Affair Killer T-Shirt he's making me wear?
Do you know?
I can't actually imagine him moving into an apartment, either. But there's a small part of me that thinks it might be good for him. I don't think he realizes just how alone he would be.
![[Linked Image from goims.ca]](http://www.goims.ca/images/TrophyGold.jpg)
How's this?
I can ask my dad to come back. I am sure he would. I can also rescramble the garage door opener. He has no house key ( there were two made- I am in possession of both).
I really need to work very hard at not replying to him. In the long run, not replying helps him more. It's just awful to watch him decompensating like this.
But he's gotta do it. I just hope the bottom comes soon. I am having a hard time staying on course.
Is the BS Patience award big enough to cover the Evil Affair Killer T-Shirt he's making me wear?
Do you know?
I can't actually imagine him moving into an apartment, either. But there's a small part of me that thinks it might be good for him. I don't think he realizes just how alone he would be.
For me? Yay! That'll do it!!!
srsly- that's awesome! LOL!!!
How's this?
My text got above the picture- but that's an awesome trophy! Yay!
He has no house key ( there were two made- I am in possession of both).
I didn't lock the door from the garage into the house. Total tactical error on my part. I fell asleep on couch first, and went upstairs, and just didn't check. Totally my fault.
My text got above the picture- but that's an awesome trophy! Yay!
You can polish it with your Affair Killer t-shirt.
I didn't lock the door from the garage into the house. Total tactical error on my part. I fell asleep on couch first, and went upstairs, and just didn't check. Totally my fault.
Ooh-Oh.
This means he's attempted to get in the house more times than you know.
This time, he got lucky.
Go buy some bells.
Attach the bells to ribbons.
Hang the ribbons with the bells on every entry door knob.
Scary.
Temporary Restraining Order.
I'll tell my kids it's Christmas in March, and we're doing jinglebells! LOL!
Good idea. Very good idea.
And I'm sure you're right, Pepper. This probably wasn't a first attempt.
My text got above the picture- but that's an awesome trophy! Yay!
You can polish it with your Affair Killer t-shirt.
LOL!! True dat!
Scary.
Temporary Restraining Order.
Two women. Two ROs in a month, if I have to. Geesh. He's such a mess.
At that point, he starts arguing that I must not love him very much if I am just going to give up so easily and not fight for him.
So I tell him I've never been ready to give up on him, and it was my plan to fight for us forever.
Then he says " Why shouldn't I fight for her forever?"
I say I have no answer.
The next time he says that, tell him, "You can fight for her forever if you choose, BUT you will lose me forever if you do. I'm not going to stay with you if you're going to have a girlfriend, and I will NOT be your friend."
**stores that in memory bank**
Thanks!
I can also rescramble the garage door opener.
I'd like to lodge a formal complaint about the Wayward Scoring System. Wonder where I'd address that letter?
There actually is a procedure for formal complaints by betrayed on the Official Wayward Blame Assessment Scoring System as maintained by the Committee of Rationalizations for Adultery and Cake-eating (CRAC).
But first you have to find them. They typically hold their meetings in minivans or various hourly rate motels and they don�t answer their phones and won�t return messages. The vans are easier to find because they are rocking back and forth.
If you do manage to find them they will deny that it is really them. If you can get past that they will respond with the answer, �I don�t know� for as long as they can in hopes that you will leave in frustration.
If you do have the patience to reach this point you will be directed to submit your complaint in triplicate form typed on an IBM Selectric II in Courier Italic 96* 12-pitch font and mailed to a P.O. Box in Cambodia.
Your complaint will be returned with requests for clarification a minimum of seven times over the course of the next 3-1/2 to 5 years. Your only recourse is to start the procedure over from the beginning with each request.
In the end you will receive a letter denying your request and a letter of condemnation and guilt assignment with a 38 point betrayed penalty (pretty much as PSUBIKER said).
I'd like to lodge a formal complaint about the Wayward Scoring System. Wonder where I'd address that letter?
There actually is a procedure for formal complaints by betrayed on the Official Wayward Blame Assessment Scoring System as maintained by the Committee of Rationalizations for Adultery and Cake-eating (CRAC).
But first you have to find them. They typically hold their meetings in minivans or various hourly rate motels and they don�t answer their phones and won�t return messages. The vans are easier to find because they are rocking back and forth.
If you do manage to find them they will deny that it is really them. If you can get past that they will respond with the answer, �I don�t know� for as long as they can in hopes that you will leave in frustration.
If you do have the patience to reach this point you will be directed to submit your complaint in triplicate form typed on an IBM Selectric II in Courier Italic 96* 12-pitch font and mailed to a P.O. Box in Cambodia.
Your complaint will be returned with requests for clarification a minimum of seven times over the course of the next 3-1/2 to 5 years. Your only recourse is to start the procedure over from the beginning with each request.
In the end you will receive a letter denying your request and a letter of condemnation and guilt assignment with a 38 point betrayed penalty (pretty much as PSUBIKER said).
Chrisner = Mother Superior of Evil Jenus
(He did not quite qualify for Genius, so he'll have to settle for jenus)
Chrisner = Mother Superior
Well I do have a lot of bad habits.
I'd like to lodge a formal complaint about the Wayward Scoring System. Wonder where I'd address that letter?
There actually is a procedure for formal complaints by betrayed on the Official Wayward Blame Assessment Scoring System as maintained by the Committee of Rationalizations for Adultery and Cake-eating (CRAC).
But first you have to find them. They typically hold their meetings in minivans or various hourly rate motels and they don�t answer their phones and won�t return messages. The vans are easier to find because they are rocking back and forth.
If you do manage to find them they will deny that it is really them. If you can get past that they will respond with the answer, �I don�t know� for as long as they can in hopes that you will leave in frustration.
If you do have the patience to reach this point you will be directed to submit your complaint in triplicate form typed on an IBM Selectric II in Courier Italic 96* 12-pitch font and mailed to a P.O. Box in Cambodia.
Your complaint will be returned with requests for clarification a minimum of seven times over the course of the next 3-1/2 to 5 years. Your only recourse is to start the procedure over from the beginning with each request.
In the end you will receive a letter denying your request and a letter of condemnation and guilt assignment with a 38 point betrayed penalty (pretty much as PSUBIKER said).
THANK YOU SO MUCH. I am crying so bad right now and my sides hurt. It took me 5 minutes to read that post because I was laughing so hard. LOVE IT.
Scary.
Temporary Restraining Order.
Two women. Two ROs in a month, if I have to. Geesh. He's such a mess.
My WH is such a mess too. They just are. At least we recognize it!
And
lol on the last few posts you clever folks!
I don't think you should stop engaging with him.
But you just need to get REALLY GOOD at reverse babble.
Which just means that you should respond to him with a combination of confusing questions along with some razor sharp jabs to his logic.
He tells me he love me so much, but that he is giving up on us, and moving to an apartment ( he's at his parents' house now). He is doing this to spare me watching him fall apart, because he will never ever be able to give up on her, or move on, or function, and he doesn't want to hurt me or the kids.
Thank you for deciding to stop hurting us.
"because you hurt me in a way I can never get over by telling my OW the truth about the relationship, and I cannot forgive you for taking that control".
You mean I control the truth?
At that point, he starts arguing that I must not love him very much if I am just going to give up so easily and not fight for him.
I love you so much that I will paint the kitchen for you!
Then he says " Why shouldn't I fight for her forever?"
Do you mean fight the restraining order? Maybe you should get one against her too!
He proceeds to get upset with me and tell me how I have all this control over his life, and he can't stand it.
I can't stand it either. I wanted to control the weather too!
He keeps telling me that I won. I ruined his life.
Well I did vow to love, honor, cherish and ruin your life....
Try it! Its FUN!
The rules for the complaint!!!!!!!!!!! Oh!! I snorted!!!!!!!
Okay. So he texted me that he's signing a lease on an apartment.
And then he texted me that it's all my fault because I wouldn't call her/email her last week and tell her I was lying about being married. And that I am ruining us by my choices from last week.
I am setting up the intermediaries tonight. His parents are useless, so I'm going to go with one of my closest friends here and her husband. Garage door code- changed.
He keeps saying he will never get better and I don't understand.
I will be glad for the relief of no contact. I just keep thinking that my marriage is over, but he swings wildly from one thing to the other.
Tell me how him getting an apartment by himself, with her hating his guts could help me.
Please> I know I'm needy today, but I am struggling.
I did use the "control the truth line", and the line about not being friends. Because both of those are the absolute bottom line truth.
He's hurt that I would say I wouldn't be friends. He would never say such things, says he.
That's true. He says much worse.
Okay. So he texted me that he's signing a lease on an apartment.
And then he texted me that it's all my fault because I wouldn't call her/email her last week and tell her I was lying about being married. And that I am ruining us by my choices from last week.
I am setting up the intermediaries tonight. His parents are useless, so I'm going to go with one of my closest friends here and her husband. Garage door code- changed.
He keeps saying he will never get better and I don't understand.
I will be glad for the relief of no contact. I just keep thinking that my marriage is over, but he swings wildly from one thing to the other.
Tell me how him getting an apartment by himself, with her hating his guts could help me.
Please> I know I'm needy today, but I am struggling.
Stay the course, sister. From where I sit, it appears that your WH is self-destructing. And you know what? You can't do a thing about it. You can't protect him from himself.
The best thing you can do is to remain the lighthouse that guides him home through the storm. And that means being placid, being consistent, not buying into his self-destructive drama. It means doing what you've been doing.
Take care of yourself and your kids. You are their rock. You've been great!
And you just go on and be needy if you need to (get it? 'Needy/need to'?
) You've got us when you're down.
Okay. I can stay the course. I can. I just don't want him hurt more, but I think he needs to implode completely. If getting an apartment by himself pulls him further out from us, and makes him feek even lonelier, then in the long run, i hope it causes him to try and get up faster.
Don't worry about appearing "needy".
We've all taken our turn at "needy" ourselves.
You are a pleasure to work with.
Thanks. I struggle sometimes with asking for help. And I am very grateful for all of your help. So grateful.
Okay. I can stay the course. I can. I just don't want him hurt more, but I think he needs to implode completely>
Our son recently got into a lot of trouble with the law.
We have backed off completely.
He complains we don't love him because we won't fix this.
We cannot fix him.
He's gotten off lucky until now.
This time?
We just don't know.
We don't want him to hurt, but we know (from experience) that "hurt" is one of the few things that motivates him to make better choices.
I do understand.
I do.
Thanks for sharing that. It helps me with perspective. It really does.
I know it hurts to see someone you care about self-destruct.
But you know what? It will hurt you MORE if you stop his fall.....or protect him from the consequences. You have to get out of the way. You cannot be his safety net -- because you will not get a recovered husband that way.
Think about teaching the kids to ride their bikes -- sometimes they fall. But they LEARN.
Touching a hot stove? They LEARN.
A counselor was dealing with my parents once. Because my dad wanted to do "tough" love on my brother. And my mom wanted to keep rescuing him. Guess what? He's 43 and my mother still has to rescue him. Because he never learned the skills to fix anything for himself.
And then he texted me that it's all my fault because I wouldn't call her/email her last week and tell her I was lying about being married. And that I am ruining us by my choices from last week.
Tell me how him getting an apartment by himself, with her hating his guts could help me.
Please> I know I'm needy today, but I am struggling.
Ridic, hon, you are just not understanding how an addict's mind works.
What is the bottom line of all his moaning and groaning? The thing he comes back to over and over is that you are not helping him get access to his dope (heehee).
The rest (the apartment, the divorce) is just posturing and bovine excrement. Manipulation. Emotional blackmail. He is, in Kurt Vonnegut's words, farting and tapdancing in the hope that you will cave in and go trot off and convince his mistress to bang him again--while you take care of the house and be Good Mommy for him.
He really thinks that this scenario could happen! Your husband is the King of the Cake-Eaters right now.
An addict will sell their own child to get more dope. They will dig in the trash, drink out of a toilet if their dope falls in it, lie, cheat and steal to get more dope. If you were hooked up to lethal electric voltage and he was told, "hit the button and OW will bang you again", look out, RS, cause you'd be lit up like a Roman candle. How much longer can your love last under these circumstances? Don't keep trying to find out.
Quickly get your Plan B back in place before you lose all your love for your husband.
So you are going to Plan B? Good!
Do you have a letter?
Gotta say, your WH sure does mess up a fun thread.
Prodigal son asked for his half of fathers money now.
He took it and wasted it
then he found himself sitting in mud, eating the rejected swill from a pigs trough.
He got up and at that point went home and asked to be a lowly worker on his fathers estate - didnt want to be son again just a worker...and father welcomed him back with open arms.
The lesson is...he had to get up out of the swill, and STOP his sinning and ask for forgivness.
Until one stops their sinful actions, admits their mistakes and asks for foriginess you are not required to give it.
He needs to find himself sitting in the pigs filth, eating its food and shirving in the cold of night and you cant keep him from going there. All you can do is take care of yourself, and your children. Protect them and protect yourself. If...in time you can love him and forgive him again...well then that will be a decision made then.
I think if you distance yourself from his insanity the more likely you can love him again...if you are buffeted day to day by his stupidity the love will leech away. You need to go dark plan b...to protect you and your children. To protect your love for him if any is still there.
I hope she is just taking a day off from the madness.
Her WH worries me.
Me too. Doesn�t have all his cornflakes in one box
Hoping there is no April Fool in your life today, Ridic.
I am now officially concerned.
I am now officially concerned.
and now you have made me officially concerned as well.
Happy Easter![[Linked Image from planetsmilies.net]](http://planetsmilies.net/easter-smiley-17735.gif)
Hello
Hello
Hello
Hello
Hello
Hello
Most distressing.
perhaps she decided to pack up kiddies and take them camping while fogged out addict hubby hits rock bottom. You know so he cant reach her and uses up his one phone call from jail and gets a voice mail that says "dear wh - i assume you are calling cause you have finally hit rock bottom. Tough Titties, the kids and I are off having a fab time without you. Because we dont need a wayward father and husband in our lives. If at some point you become a real man - call us and see if we still care. Its possible but highly unlikely...if this is not wayward hubby - leave a message at the tone. BEEEEEP"
Don't leave us![[Linked Image from millan.net]](http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/hangin.gif)
hanging ...
Bumping for an update...still worried
Wow, sure do hope all is okay (well, as good as "okay" can be, I guess). Yep, must say I am now worried, too.
does anyone have a way of contacting her outside of the forum?
Wonder if the mods know how to reach her? This is weird.
It's the apparent mental instability of her husband that worries me. His behavior crossed the line into bizarre at times, and I worry for the safety of both of them.
Hope he wasn't a producer for Survivor...
It is an anonymous forum for a reason.
Ridic was very careful about not revealing much about herself.
Good for her.
Yes, I am concerned, but if she wanted us to know what's going on, she'd tell us.
I know you're right Pepperband, but it's natural to worry a little when someone 'drops off the map.'
I know you're right Pepperband, but it's natural to worry a little when someone 'drops off the map.'
But, asking the Mods to contact a poster who wants to remain anonymous, is too intrusive IMO.
I agree @ not asking the mods. Just hope to hear good news (or at least not bad news).
She came through the "Who's Online" box a few minutes ago so she is a least physically okay.
Take care Ridic.
She came through the "Who's Online" box a few minutes ago so she is a least physically okay.
Take care Ridic.
Let's at least hope it's her.
I'm sorry!
I'm okay!
I've been trying to focus on taking care of me and the kids, and dealing a little with WH, and I've been trying not to obsess, so I asn't avoiding here, just not posting much.
You stinker.
On April Fool's Day?
I accidentally crashed into his car. He came to the house in the morning, with my permission, to get some things of his. I knew he was at the house, but got into my car to leave, and pulled right into him.
How's that for karma? My car was fine. His car? Had to be loaded onto a flatbed and hauled off. Undriveable. Oops.
I then took my kids, on their spring break, and left town for the week. It was good to get away, and have no pressure. Or at least, notmuch pressure. I hung out with my friends from home, most of whom have no real idea what's going on, so in a small way, it was good to feel like I had no pressure for explanation, or anything to really work on. It was very nice.
WH wants to come home. He's stopped the crazy talk, for the most part. I've seen him a few times, for different interactions. He's up and down. He doesn't talk about her to me at all anymore. Not a word. Which is nice. But then again, he gets very little opportunity for contact.
I don't think he should be allowed to be home. I think he needs to be, or at least needs to be trying, to be very positive and willing to try hard with me. I can't carry him at all anymore. I can't take a negative reaction.
I just don't know how long to wait.
He is going to therapy twice a week. It usually makes him angry right after therapy, then exceedingly calmer by the next day.
Sigh.
You stinker. I am. Not on purpose, but I am!
I just don't know how long to wait.
It's not "how long", it's when it is right.
It really does mean a lot to me that y'all were worried.
I promise to be better about checking in. I just withdrew because I had to stop thinking about it all so much. I tend to obsess, and it was interfering with how I could care for myself, think about myself, and do my job with my kidlets.
But I know I'm in a better, stronger place now. I think I was more run down from all the leadup to the exposure and the explosions afterwards than I realized.
I just don't know how long to wait.
It's not "how long", it's when it is right.
I like the idea of looking at it that way. I just can't look at a date on a calendar. I want the whole picture to look better, if he"s capable.
Did I mention the car was new?
LOL!
He told me the therapist has really started to talk to him about the why of his affair. He was very upset this week after therapy, then was calmer.
He said the therapist said what I said- that his relationship with the OW was more parental and caretaking than romantic. And his attachment to her was deep because she wasn't an independent thinker, and she was deeply into reality testing. She just accepted what he said without much investigation, and also let him very much tell her what to do.
The therapist told him that would never be a need that people in an equal relationship can fill. That's not how real partners work together.
He didn't like that at all. But the next day, he told me that he knew it had to be true.
Did I mention the car was new?
LOL!
![[Linked Image from millan.net]](http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/coffeescreen.gif)
"oopsie"
[quote=RidicSit]Did I mention the car was new?
quote]
LOVE IT!!!!!
Welcome back.
God's Blessings,
Say
I know, right?
He thought I was kidding when I came in and said I hit the car.
He said "Ha! April Fool's!"
Me? "Um, notsomuch!"
Ridic,
I'm relieved to see you back. I haven't posted to you much, but I've been following along with a morbid fascination.
The funny thing is, my dad did the same thing to my car years ago. I was over visiting and parked in the driveway. He got into his car in the garage to go somewhere and BAM.
Hang in there. It sounds like things are slowly moving in the right direction.
Bea
Glad you are back, and yes, we were worried. Set the bar high for letting him back.
Rid- You were sorely missed. I am glad that it was you just taking care of you. It is a little funny about the car. Especially since it happened on April 1st. That must have been an interesting day for you indeed.
As far as what to do with WH, have you asked him about talking to the coaching center? I think that they could get a feel for where his head is at and they would be able to help you too.
I haven't mentioned the coaching center to him ( at one point, a long time ago in this mess, I said that we needed marriage counseling together, and I had the place in mind- meaning here). I was actually thinking I should call and talk, for myself, and see what I should do right now. My therapist here has been great with me, though she wants me off the anti-anxiety meds I was taking, because she thinks I'm a little too calm now (hilarious, really).
It's all he can handle to go see his doc right now, and he struggles with that. I was hoping ( in my grand plan in my head) that once his doc got him stabilized, then we could use the Harleys together.
I don't think, in general, he's even close to be able to come home. I went to dinner and dessert with my eldest daughter, her best friend, and the mama last night, in a different city. A mini road trip. He texted me over and over again, trying to get my attention and upping the ante. I just ignored- no response, and as soon as we were safely home, turned my phone off.
I'm tired.
Okay, you know best. I think it would definitely be a benefit for you to call for yourself. They will be able to advise you better about what YOU should be doing next. Take care of yourself and those kiddos.
I am actually thinking that the little bit of contact I've had with him has been too much. I think what he did last night shows me he doesn't really respect the boundaries I've tried to set up.
I should call for me, though. I do feel, in my gut, that he's not at a point where marriage counseling would be a help to us. I
think he's too far down in his own hole of selfishness to be able to do anything. And the few that I read last night, from his texts, had that edge of blaming me.
And that's not a place I am willing to go with him.
I am definitely going to take care of my babies! Today I am heading out to shop with the eldest, then head to my parents' house and pick up the youngest three. They've had the weekend to be absolutely spoiled by them! LOL!
And here's my main problem.
It's been long enough that I don't understand his devastation at losing her anymore.
I don't understand why he hasn't snapped around and isn't trying to move heaven and earth to be kind and good to me.
She is gone. Way gone. Out of his life. No more.
And yet, I feel like he is still focused on her, the loss of her, like a laser. He's like a teenage girl, and he has no proper perspective. The drips and drabs I hear from his counseling ( and again, I have no idea how much is true), seem to show me that the doc has his number.
I am just not sure how to look at this anymore.
RidicSit,
I, too, have been following your story. I usually don't post much in this section, b/c I'm not a survivor of infidelity. I think folks were worried b/c your H seemed so unstable in your posts.
Do you think you're in danger of losing what love you still have for him, and if this goes on much longer, you're not going to have any interest in reconciling, no matter how much he turns it around?
If the answer is "yes," your LoveBank is near empty and you're a candidate for a true Plan B. Have you considered it? This might be where the Harley's would be a huge help to you.
Martes
Yes. I am finding it harder to figure out why I would want to rebuild with him.
I've B'd for awhile, but then loosen a little. I think the loosening is an absolute mistake.
I need to call them. My personal therapist is great, and she helps me immensely, but her focus is on me, more than on the big picture of the marriage ( which is where she should be, for IC).
I think I need a professional to look at my big picture.
RidicSit - Most waywards get through the worst of the withdrawal in less than a month. But some don't, especially if the affair was longer.
My ex and his OW broke up just a week after our divorce was final, but he didn't really get through withdrawal for 7 months. I mean to where he regretted his affair, wished he'd never met the OW, and wanted to work on our relationship. By that time I was done.
Protect your love for him. This stuff (as you know) gets very tiring.
If I were you, I would call the Harleys for a plan. It only takes one call, and then you can follow their plan until hubby realizes what he has done. In the meantime you can be making a good life for you and your family and hopefully he will be ready to join you.
Ridic,
How is H treating the kids now?
He's okay. He tries hard when he's around them, he just can't maintain a happy mood for long, so then he sorta shuts down.
I keep it so that they get to see each other, but not for too long, to balance what the kids see and need.
I think I do all right with that. Not perfect, but all right.
He's okay. He tries hard when he's around them, he just can't maintain a happy mood for long, so then he sorta shuts down.
Is he taking his medication?
I wonder .... 
I'd put THAT in your list of requirements.
Meds are likely to dull his sex drive (if he has any left) ... but it won't be forever.
Usually 6 months minimum, and then a tapering off .... unless he needs more time.
He gets really quiet, weird smile, just starts to look and sound forced and fake.
It's hard to describe, but you can tell it's not authentic.
I would bet a dollar he isn't taking meds. I'd even bet two dollars. Which? Since I don't bet? Is huge.
I have a long list of requirements. I don't think, in imy opinion, he can sustainably meet them at this point in time.
Ridic..
Very glad to see you back!
I think its a very good idea to take breaks both from MB's and from your husband.
You need to focus on yourself first and foremost -- to make sure you remain sane and healthy.
It really does mean a lot to me that y'all were worried.
I promise to be better about checking in. I just withdrew because I had to stop thinking about it all so much. I tend to obsess, and it was interfering with how I could care for myself, think about myself, and do my job with my kidlets.
But I know I'm in a better, stronger place now. I think I was more run down from all the leadup to the exposure and the explosions afterwards than I realized.
We were just saddling up the posse. Don't let it happen again.
He gets really quiet, weird smile, just starts to look and sound forced and fake.
It's hard to describe, but you can tell it's not authentic.
Wayzilla did the exact same thing. Fake smile. Very annoying fake laugh.
DD would call her �the Actress.�
Jersey accent
How you doin'?
/Jersey accent
He gets really quiet, weird smile, just starts to look and sound forced and fake.
It's hard to describe, but you can tell it's not authentic.
Wayzilla did the exact same thing. Fake smile. Very annoying fake laugh.
DD would call her “the Actress.”
That's just what it looks like. It's weird.
Jersey accent
How you doin'?
/Jersey accent
Pretty good. I am getting pretty angry with him, though, and I absolutely yelled at him a couple of days ago. Which isn't so much what I do, as a general rule. But it scared him. He knocked it off ( he was complaining about team parenting, about how I wasn't including him- which wasn't what was happening).
I am trying to figure out what to listen to, from him, and what not to.
He has made much more of an effort to spend time with me. To try and date me, so to speak. I know there is zero contact with OW. And he's in his therapy. He is reconnecting with the friends he dropped to spend time with her. And he has stopped texting me anecdotes about her.
He says he loves me, and wants to be with me, but I need to understand he'll never get over her, though he loves me more than her.
That's a change from before. He also freely admits that their relationship wasn't rooted in reality. But that he's fixated on what he thought their relationship was, and how our relationship can't live up to that, and the therapist can never help him get over her.
The therapist apparently told him what I said, which is that she was outta there when she found out the truth of who he was as a peson, but I stayed. And that I still love him, which makes me very valuable to him.
He told me he is jealous of people he sees on the street who seem happy, because he knows he will never be able to be that happy.
All of this adds up to me thinking- no on coming home.
But not blacking him out as much as it was in plan B seems appropriate, too.
I am confused.
(((((RID))))
Oh Rid, I am sorry that I can offer you nothing more than that virtual hug and tell you that I am pulling for you.
Have you thought about calling the coaching center?
I plan on it, but I am not sure that I'm at a stage where it would be useful. I mean, I know the Harleys are always useful, but I am not sure that this is a point where they would be best utilized. I've read all the books and memorized this site. LOL! But my H has a copy of HNHN and SAA, and I don't know so much what he's read of them. His therapist said they were good and positive books to read for the situation, but the therapist is concerned, and rightly so, with getting him in a stable place.
I have a therapist. He has a therapist. He needs to be dealing with the underlying depression/personality disorder issue before I think it's appropriate, at this point, to work on our marriage much.
But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the coaching center can help me in a way I'm not seeing. I am thinking right now, even though it's not my strong point, that I have to sit back and let time and his therapy work before I can do much for the marriage.
But I would appreciate any advice or other reads on this. Admittedly, I am tired.
I am only talking about the coaching session to be with you. That way you could discuss your sitch and they would be able to help you devise a plan and let you know when and if you should let your WH come home. I am saving up my pennies(can't use my LOONIES since they go straight into the pickle jar hehehehehe) for the day that WH says he would want to come home. I am confident that they would give me good advice on the direction and steps that I would take to ensure the best possible chance for a GREAT recovery. I have NEVER seen anyone say bad things about their experiences with the coaching center. Maybe they hypnotize everyone who calls. TeeHEEE
That's a very good point.
This sounds terrible, but I am very tired of making what feels like all the relationship decisions.
Having someone else give me an outline would be a relief.
I felt really strong when y'all guided me towards exposure, and no matter what else happens, I know that was absolutely the right thing to do.
LOL!!!!
I guess. Asking your wife to lie to your restraining ordered mistress is a place I guess I thought I would never see.
Sorry...
Late to the fiasco, but Ridic... this is so funny. I hope you are doing well. I am still reading.
Wow Ridic, just finished your thread !!
You are awesome and a saint. The whole time reading (just started a few days ago) I was hoping that someone would mention the coaching center. I think you would really benefit from it if the advice there is anything like Bill and Joyce Harley do on the Radio program. They really do cut through all the drama and BS and help formulate a plan of action. If your H would listen, I'm sure they could shake some sense into him and maybe put to rest some of these delusional thoughts about OW.
I record the previous broadcasts overnight and put them on my ipod and listen.
MB Radio:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html
I just thought I'd update.
I know I am supposed to contact the Harleys for counseling, but I am already spending 300$ a week on individual counseling, and I feel like I should give that a chance before I do the Harleys. Or at least some forward movement.
I guess I'd just like some input on this situation. I am starting to feel like it's never going to get any better, and I feel as if I'm doing the wrong things. And I'm exhausted. And I'm actually starting to get very, very angry.
WH is still out of the house, mostly. I went away for a weekend, and he moved one box back in while I was gone, and he will spend some nights here, on the floor.I know that he shouldn't do that, but short of filing for a legal cause, I cannot force him out.
He has had absolutely no contact with OW. Other woman moved out of the apartment he had been paying for, and completely covered her tracks for him, as well as renewed the restraining order. She's serious as a heart attack about staying away from him.
He's completely depressed. We are three months past D-Day, and he is still absolutely wallowing. He no longer asks me to contact her and lie to her, he asks me to contact her and get her to tell him how much she hates him. Which of course, being a reasonable adult, I will not do.
He sleeps for long periods of time. He is horribly grouchy. My children now directly address him when he's out of control, which leads to him complaining that I don't defend him ( against a 10 year old? Srsly?), and that usually makes him go and hide away and sleep on a floor all day long. And no, I am not exagerrating one bit.
He tells me he will never be the same again. He cannot get over what he did, and his relationship with her. He is very angry with his doc for hammering home that the affair wasn't reality, and once it became real, she split as fast as possible.
He tells me he wants to be married to me, and take care of me, but that I cannot expect anything else from him, because he's a broken person, and I need to understand that.
My therapist tells me that I should consider filing for divorce.
His therapist tells him to grow up and stop feeling sorry for himself, and be a man.
In the meantime, I am getting angrier and angrier. I am responsible for everything with the kids. They are tired of him being inconsistent, and they do not trust him. They can read his moping, and want very far away from it.
I am having a lot of flashes about times that he's lied to me, and things that have happened. Because I don't get positive things from him, it's hard to let them go.
He was very angry a few weeks ago, because I went to a concert with a friend. I saw a band that he saw with her on a Tuesday, and then saw with me on a Wednesday and the following Sunday. He was very, very upset with me for going.
I just don't know what to do anymore. And I'm tired.
I don't know your whole sitch but it sounds like you are way overdue for Plan B. What do you think? ((RidicSit)))
Personally, I would end the individual counseling and go all in with the Marriage Builders counseling.
Give it 3 months of weekly counseling. If you're not seeing improvement -- go back to what you're doing.
Nothing to lose at this point, right?
Personally, I would end the individual counseling and go all in with the Marriage Builders counseling.
It would be cheaper!
Is H working?
I would not tolerate the daytime sleeping in your home.
Whenever he does this, tell him:
"You can nap for 15 minutes, then, I am waking you up."
And do it.
Everytime.
Give him chores.
Give exact instructions.
"Go mow the lawn. When you are done, I'll fix you lunch."
Or :
"Today you are taking the kids to see Toy Story at Grand Theater at 5 PM."
Make a honey do list.
Keep him busy.
If he refuses, he has to go be lazy at his parent's house.
Sorry kiddo.
Ridic, one of the conditions for even considering ending a Plan B has to be that the adulterer engages in a plan of recovery for the marriage. It does not sound to me like your husband is engaged in a plan of recovery. It sounds like he is sitting around hoping for things to get better, and that's not a plan.
Here are some ways I think would be workable ways to get started on marital recovery:
* he begins counseling with the Marriage Builders coaching center
* the two of you take the Marriage Builders "weekend" online seminar and begin the Marriage Builders home study course with coaching
* he buys and reads Fall in Love, Stay in Love; His Needs, Her Needs; and Love Busters and begins implementing the concepts
Here are some ways that I don't think are plans for marital recovery that will work:
* one or both of you attend individual counseling
* he moves back in with you
* you end Plan B and let him back into your life
Personally, I would end the individual counseling and go all in with the Marriage Builders counseling.
Give it 3 months of weekly counseling. If you're not seeing improvement -- go back to what you're doing.
Nothing to lose at this point, right?
That'sa good point. I need to stay in my counseling, though. That's a lifetime thing for me, for my OCD, but I can go back to my normal schedule, which is every other week.
Pepper-
I need to be firmer with him- when I give him exact instructions, he says I'm judging him, and his ability to do things/get things done, and then he pouts and hides. It's awful.
When I tell him specific things to do with the kids ( outside of dealing with sports or sports practices), he gets mad and tells me I am telling him he isn't a good enough parent by asking him to spend more time with the kids.
He says he cannot trust me because I kicked him out, and that right there, has me over an emotional barrel. I see it for what it is- blackmail, and his attempt at getting a license to do whatever he wants to do. I need him to stay out of the house until he is really committed to getting better. He says he is committed, but that he will never get better than he is right now, so I need to accept it and deal with it.
Which I cannot.
His parents left town. They couldn't deal with him, so they packed up and left for a summer vacation. They"ll be back at the end of the summer. Sometimes- it is very easy to see why he is the way he is. Sigh.
He works sometimes- but he owns his own company- so his job is what he makes of it. Frankly- he's very good at it, it takes very little effort, and he got very used to be uber efficient in it so that he could spend most of his time when he was "working" actually with her.
Without her, he doesn't have anything to fill that time. So he's moping.
He still has an apartment in town, where most of his stuff lives. When I made him leave the house today, that's where he went, and once he got there, he started texting me that he was staying there on the floor for the rest of the day.
Markos-
He has the books, I have no idea if he's reading them. His therapist agreed with those books as good for our marriage, and for him, and also recommended a book on grieving for him.
You're absolutely right that he is waiting around, but I am not sure he is waiting around for it to get better. He seems to think this is as good as it will get, and he will not feel any better.
His doc told him that this kind of grief and abnormal projection can take up to a year to process, but my H doesn't even believe that he'll ever recover.
It makes me wonder why I am fighting so hard.
I know you guys understand, but I wish I could explain just how low he is. He wakes up every morning expecting to feel bad, and he does.
That doesn't compute to me. I wake up every morning thinking this is the day that everything gets better, and I wipe the slate clean, and try as hard as I can to be happy. And then he drags me down.
My best plan really is to go back to a dark B, right?
OK
For real ....
Based on what you wrote (assuming it is accurate, and I have no suspicion it is not)
Get an attorney.
And file for "something".
Whatever will get his lazy [censored] out.
He's poisonous.
Do not discuss it.
Assume he is telling you the truth.
His INTENTION is to live with you and be a miserable SOB.
Disallow that option.
Filing is not divorcing.
But, he has no intention of even trying to make you a happy woman at this time.
File for a legal separation, if that is available where you live.
It is. That's what my therapist is also saying I should do.
Okay. I can do that. I have to do something. This isn't working. I can't try any harder than I have been, and I cannot fight this alone.
At some point, I need him to take care of me emotionally, and he is incapable.
And, if at any time he HINTS he might end his life, call 911.
Every time.
Okay. I assume that will come with action by me. It's his fallback threat.
I just wish I knew how he got to this point. I have always tried to be a good wife. I read the books- and the concepts? I was already doing them.
Sigh.
I just wish I knew how he got to this point. I have always tried to be a good wife. I read the books- and the concepts? I was already doing them.
Sigh.
Cut that out!
It is 100% HIM, and not you.
Do you REALLY think you have the ability to make someone this crazy?
You don't.
Don't worry, the forum members will call you out when you have responsibility for doing something terrible.
You are normal.
H is not, at least not currently.
Markos-
He has the books, I have no idea if he's reading them.
Then you know he's not begun implementing the concepts, and therefore he hasn't taken this avenue to begin marital recovery.
He's not met the standard for being in contact with you again, and he shouldn't be, IMO.
I just wish I knew how he got to this point. I have always tried to be a good wife.
But he didn't try to be a good husband, did he?
OK
For real ....
Based on what you wrote (assuming it is accurate, and I have no suspicion it is not)
Get an attorney.
And file for "something".
Whatever will get his lazy [censored] out.
He's poisonous.
Do not discuss it.
Assume he is telling you the truth.
His INTENTION is to live with you and be a miserable SOB.
Disallow that option.
Filing is not divorcing.
But, he has no intention of even trying to make you a happy woman at this time.
File for a legal separation, if that is available where you live.
This is exactly right.
And then into a midnight dark Plan B.
I just wish I knew how he got to this point. I have always tried to be a good wife.
But he didn't try to be a good husband, did he?
No. That's the honest take, right there.
I just wish I knew how he got to this point. I have always tried to be a good wife. I read the books- and the concepts? I was already doing them.
Sigh.
Cut that out!
It is 100% HIM, and not you.
Do you REALLY think you have the ability to make someone this crazy?
You don't.
Don't worry, the forum members will call you out when you have responsibility for doing something terrible.
You are normal.
H is not, at least not currently.
Intellectually, I know you're right. It's just hard to keep it straight, sometimes.
Markos-
He has the books, I have no idea if he's reading them.
Then you know he's not begun implementing the concepts, and therefore he hasn't taken this avenue to begin marital recovery.
He's not met the standard for being in contact with you again, and he shouldn't be, IMO.
You know what? That's exactly right. His only comment on the books has been that books don't describe him, and he's different. Even though he's been told 50 ways to Sunday that he's absolutely typical.
Rid, I am happy to see you but sad to hear what has been going on. FWIW, I agree with everything that has been said to you today. I think you should get on the phone with the Harleys and I think you should go DARK.
Oh crazy wayturds.
I am saddened. You seem to have lost some of that humour you used to have. VERY understandable in your current sitch. Really sad though too.
OK
For real ....
Based on what you wrote (assuming it is accurate, and I have no suspicion it is not)
Get an attorney.
And file for "something".
Whatever will get his lazy [censored] out.
He's poisonous.
Do not discuss it.
Assume he is telling you the truth.
His INTENTION is to live with you and be a miserable SOB.
Disallow that option.
Filing is not divorcing.
But, he has no intention of even trying to make you a happy woman at this time.
File for a legal separation, if that is available where you live.
This is exactly right.
And then into a midnight dark Plan B.
I also agree.
I heard Dr H talking on the radio show about advising people to separate to save your sanity and also recently read SMB's posts in another thread along the same lines, they were really good. I believe they were based on her conversation with Dr H as well.
It has given me a lot to think about and I think people endure too much on these boards sometimes. I can find SMB's posts and repost them for you if you are interested in reading them.
I would like to read those, Susie, if it's not too much trouble.
I am okay, Scot, I promise. I'm still semi-humorous at times, but since he's stopped saying the insane things, and gone to the darker place, he's not giving me the same level of material to work with, you know?
I have offered him an insane amount of fake pie and fake pasta, though, to cut off unproductive conversations. i think he might think I'm a carb addict.
Was that fake pasta the ant spaghetti? HEHEHEHE
I was hoping that your quietness on here meant that you didn't need us and you were spending all of your UA time with your WH. I am still praying for you. I KNOW YOU WILL BE OKAY.
LINK Have you read this?
What are Plan A and Plan B? Have you read Surviving an Affair? What other MB materials have you read?
You will have to become focused and completely self-controlled from this point on. You cannot let your emotions dictate your actions any longer. You cannot let your fear be the decision maker.
I recently spoke personally with Dr. Harley about Plan A and B. Here is what he emailed me:
The problem that most women face who should be going into plan B is that it won't save their marriage. It simply saves them so that if their husband comes out of the fog, they will not be seriously damaged. But they want to do something that will bring their marriage back and don't want to let go. It's like trying to save a drowning child. At what point should you let go? Most parents would rather go down with their child. My advice is to keep plan A short (3 weeks max) for women, and women I counsel usually do that. But it's a tough decision to make because the husband may divorce them while in Plan B, tempting them to blame themselves. Husbands may even tell them later that the separation was what made him divorce her (shifting blame on to her). Having personal experience with this issue may help you make that point with women who are facing the biggest crisis of their lives.
I stayed in Plan A too long. I suffered much emotional trauma because of that. Although we have recovered our marriage, I dealt with many triggers and memories that I could have avoided by being in Plan B. The damage caused when a BS avoids Plan B makes recovery much more difficult if the WS ever does comes out of the fog.
You are allowing yourself to drown with the marriage. Your emotional health has suffered significantly. I understand this. I've been there, too. It is time for you to get yourself healthy. You are way overdue for Plan B.
Are you willing to go completely no contact with your husband until he agrees to meet your requirements for marital recovery? Are you willing to not see or talk to him even if he tries to contact you?
This is your best chance at healing yourself and giving your marriage the best chance to recover.
Same thread as the last link:
Look at it this way. Plan B is a statement about YOU and YOUR LIFE. Say to yourself: He's crazy. I'm not. His wayward craziness is making me crazy, so I must remove myself from it to keep me sane.
See? That's all Plan B is. Removing yourself from the drama/craziness/wacked-out/fence-sitting/waffling/babbling/fog of the wayward so that you can remain sane...or regain your sanity.
Earlier you said everyone keeps saying to focus on fixing yourself, and you asked HOW. I have a bit of a different take on the "fix yourself" philosophy that is sometimes posted around here.
I was not broken and in need of fixing just because my husband decided to have an affair. So I do not assume that other BS's are broken and need fixing either. I think we should instead ask ourselves how to REMAIN UNBROKEN while dealing with a wayward nut. When we Plan A too long or indefinitely, we risk being so damaged by their abuse that we then do need "afixing".
So HOW do we protect ourselves from being damaged by their wayward abuse?
PLAN B!!!!!
Once you are removed from the whims of a wayward, you will begin to regain some balance and will gradually build up your strength again.
Very good SusieQ.
Thanks for sharing.
Okay. That's very good. It's good to read that- it's very close to what my therapist has been telling me, and trying to get through my head. That distance from him is for me, and for my children, not for him, and not to cause any reaction in him.
He texted me this morning that he will be moving forward on his birthday, and that his depression will be over at that point. He asked for a cake and homemade cards on that day, and said that will be the beginning of the rest of his life. It's about a month away.
I am all huh and um, okay.
I still need to move forward, though. I have to take care of me.
Not ant spaghetti, Scot.
But it's a definite possibility in the notsofaraway future!! LOL!
He texted me this morning that he will be moving forward on his birthday, and that his depression will be over at that point. He asked for a cake and homemade cards
Huh....ummmmm....okay.
I am going to become an elephant trainer on my next birthday. Or maybe an astronaut. Can�t decide.
He texted me this morning that he will be moving forward on his birthday, and that his depression will be over at that point. He asked for a cake and homemade cards
Huh....ummmmm....okay.
I am going to become an elephant trainer on my next birthday. Or maybe an astronaut. Can�t decide.
RidicSit, I haven't followed your thread very carefully, but - is your WH showing any signs of leaving his depression before his bday, or is this going to be a magical day for him?
He texted me this morning that he will be moving forward on his birthday, and that his depression will be over at that point. He asked for a cake and homemade cards on that day, and said that will be the beginning of the rest of his life. It's about a month away.
Who said depression doesn't have a humorous side?
I have scheduled an end to my own depression on June 17th. I think I'll go ahead and continue to be depressed until then. I have also decided to be two inches taller on July 1st.
That is just plain nuts. How the heck can he decide he will no longer suffer from depression on a certain day? Sorry you have to deal with that. Not sure if it is wayward fog or what.
He texted me this morning that he will be moving forward on his birthday, and that his depression will be over at that point. He asked for a cake and homemade cards on that day, and said that will be the beginning of the rest of his life. It's about a month away.
Who said depression doesn't have a humorous side?
This is why so many comedians are out of work. This guy works for free.
I have scheduled an end to my own depression on June 17th. I think I'll go ahead and continue to be depressed until then. I have also decided to be two inches taller on July 1st.
That is just plain nuts. How the heck can he decide he will no longer suffer from depression on a certain day? Sorry you have to deal with that. Not sure if it is wayward fog or what.
Do it on June 15th instead and you can combine it with your 195th Anniversary of Waterloo block party. Napoleon was very depressed that day.
Markos-
He has the books, I have no idea if he's reading them.
Then you know he's not begun implementing the concepts, and therefore he hasn't taken this avenue to begin marital recovery.
He's not met the standard for being in contact with you again, and he shouldn't be, IMO.
You know what? That's exactly right. His only comment on the books has been that books don't describe him, and he's different.
That's definitely an indicating of unwillingness to commit to a plan of recovery. So, out the door he goes.
Even though he's been told 50 ways to Sunday that he's absolutely typical.
Yep. They all say that. All the betrayed spouses say it, too. In fact, I'll bet nearly everybody on this board has at some point said they are atypical and that therefore some part or all of the program doesn't apply to them.
I've said it. I was wrong!
You guys are the best. I think I'd like to move to Hawaii on the 15th. With my kids, and no forwarding addy. LOL!
Send ME your addy so I can come and visit when I get my passport. I have always wanted to go to Hawaii.
You guys are the best. I think I'd like to move to Hawaii on the 15th. With my kids, and no forwarding addy. LOL!
Sooooooo ?????
Where are you? Hawaii? Tahiti? Alaska? Greece?
Let us know you are OK.
