This is not a "hard time" though; it is a way of life. When my H and I have "hard times," we view it as a problem to resolve. In your marriage, hard times is a way of life because of your husbands selfish pursuits.

DrHarley wrote to PrincessMeggy over on the InRecovery forum about a similar situation:

Then the choice is yours to live this way in your marriage or do what will make it possible for you to have a better life. You cannot change someone else or change the way he treats you if he is not interested in change. This is no short term problem. He has been doing this for 12 years according to you.

I don't know of a magic button to get him in line with what would normally be the right thing to do because he is doing what he considers the right thing to do.

No reset button either.

So you want him to do the right thing by you. He doesn't.

You trying doesn't make him try.

Larry

tekoa

I don't know how old you are or how old your kids are.
You got to be not just a parent a bio parent.

How old were you kids when you married WH?

Did he get to be a dad to them?

Why didn't the both of you have kid/s together?

I see your WH not wanting to keep the OW in his life but he wants his chance to be a dad.

He was a dad to OC1 for over ten years, and his bio OC. A man will say he is happy with two healthy daughters, and that�s the truth. Though he will always wish he had a son.

Your WH had a need to be a bio dad. Just as you did and got to be.

This is why he will not turn his back on his son. He is also trying to be fair to the half brother by not abandoning the boy to the first and only man that was his father figure.

Imagine, WH takes his bio son fishing. OC1 gets told no, you no longer can go have fun with us.

Visitation/contact with OC1 and OC2 should have been worked out before you said I do the second time.

I am 55 years young. When I married my h the first time my children were 13, 16, 17 & 19. He didn't become a good dad until he became a dad to this ow child. He had a daughter of his own when we got married, but she lived in another state and he didn't have much contact with her.

What my h is doing if very dangerous. He doesn't consider her new husband. I recently found out when he wants to get the child that is not his, he calls the grandmother and she deceptively gets the boy over her house and my h picks him up from there. Several months ago the mother got upset and said my h could get him only 1 day a week. Well that lasted for a couple of weeks, then all of a sudden he began bringing him home 2 days a week. When asked how that happened he stated that he didn't have to get her permission he just picks him up from school.

Your thought could be right. He is adamant about this child being his. He has said on many occasions that the mother has nothing to do with this and she is not controlling him. Because he can get him whenever he likes.

I thought we had it worked out before we got married. He was getting him everyday from school, and the mother would get them from him on Mon and then Friday and keep them the weekend. He said this was the best schedule, because she would not make sure they did there homework. But because I work from home that was not conducive for me. I requested the boys be in after school care. He was upset about that, but eventually agreed. So instead of picking them up from school and taking them to the library he goes to the school and sits with them, helps them with homework while they are in after-care.

We agreed that we would not allow her to control the decisions we made concerning her son and when he could come to our home. He promised me that when she got mad and withheld her son, he was not going to allow her to change her mind back and forth. But of course he didn't keep his end of the agreement. I told him when she did that it made me feel like this woman has control over my husband. But of course he doesnt' see it that way. He also says she not controlling the situation, because she said he could come one day and now he has arranged to have him 2 without her permission. So therefore, can we really work out visitation. You can't do it through the courts, so it has to be done at her discretion. Which puts her in control. And that is the painful reminder for me. (he allowed her to have control over him whi I don't have a problem with his bio son. She can't control the situation with him because of the court order.

He will not turn his back on a son that is not his, but will jeopardize our marriage. This has got me thinking really hard.

Well dear lady, there is more to the story than that.


You resent the boys.

You resent the love he has for his boys.

You resent the intrusion into your life.

And frankly, it isn't the boy's fault. They are just, well, kids. And your husband is the father they know. And all boys need a father.

The way you presented your deal the first time, it looked a whole lot different than the way you outlined it this time.

I said:


And I stand by that statement. Except I will add, he could use a partner right now to help him. I bet if you really liked those boys, you would be moving heaven and earth to help your husband be a father to them. Yea, scheming and plotting with him every step of the way.

You knew it was a package deal when you remarried him. You just don't like some of the details that emerged.

I guarantee if you help the guy, he will be yours for life. Fight him and you will be looking at an empty bed sooner or later.

Wanting a partner means being a partner.

He loves those boys. And that is NOT a bad thing and NOT a threat to you unless you make it so.

Larry

This statement is very true. This is cold, but very real assessment.

Well, here is the rest of the story. I am caring for my neices 3 children for the past 6 years. The youngest one was 10 when we remarried. He has always been in after school care. My middle daughter works the business with me from my home. Her 5 year son, my grandson, has to be in afster school care for the same reason. Why should it be different for anyone else.

I don't resent the boys. We never have a disagreement about his bio son, because she can't control him with that son. He deceives me in everything surrounding the son that is not his. He goes behind the new husbands back by secretly getting the grandmother to get the boy for him. We make an agreement on when he can come and it changes when she wants it changed. But I don't know about it until he shows up at the door with my h. Yet my h would tell me that he didn't communicate with her to get him. So that leaves me wondering how did you work this out.I feel like the 3 of them our in a triangle that of course does not include me. Given the past there must be accountablility. I requested to speak with her, but he says I'm not ready for it. I endured the affair they had with grace. I did not become soo enraged that I called any names or tried to hurt either of them, physically or monetarily. And I could have hurt him monetarily. We started a business together that I let him have entirely, because it was his dream and I helped him fulfill that dream. I did not ask for 1 cent of the buisness when he left.

When you can leave your home every day around 2:30 to sit with the children at school and not take care of necessity things around your home. You neglect the legalities of your business, yet you have time to sit at school. Where is our family security. Although, I can survive without his finances, it good to know that if anything happened to me that I could not work my business, he would be able to take care of us. That would be possible if he took care of his business instead of being at the school while they are in after care. On the days he brings the other son to our home, he picks all of the boys up from school and goes to the gym. He works out and they play in the child sitting area.

I made him a honey do list last november, because there were things that needed done around the house. The list is still sitting in his cabinet.

We took all of the children on vacation last a year, a 5 day cruise) and of course both of the boys along with the 3 I am caring for went along. During the planning of this vacation, we weren't sure on the days because we didn't want to take the boys out of school. One day my h just announced to me that he booked the cruise. I found out later that the child that is not his was spending time with his bio dad, in another state. H drove there to pick him up so he could go with us on the trip. I don't know this beforehand. When he announced he had to drive there to pick him up,his reason to me was that the mother and grandmother felt better about it if he went and picked him up. This is just an example of the deceitful relationship.

So I strongly disagree with your statement that I resent the boys. I resent the deceitful things that are done that make me feel insecure. He doesn't do any of these things with his bio son.

There are a lot more examples I could give you, but it would take a lot of time. If he would take care of home, make me his first priority(like I do him), treat me as though we are one in this situation, make decisions with me concerning this child, then I don't think we would be having this problem.

You want him to abandon OC1.

Problem is you probably danced around this before you rehitched.

You made the bed sleep in it.

No, he didn't show his hand untill after we married. Meaning all the deceit didn't come to light until then. I didn't know the dynamics of how things were done. He told me things happened one way, but I find out that was not true.

We didn't live together before we remarried, so I had to go on what he said and what it appeared to be.


I didn't ask him to abandon OC1, but what I did ask was be open, honest, transparent and don't allow M to controll our home by manipulating him through OC1. Include me in the process of making decision as to when he can come to our home. And that should be the same for her new husband. I'm sure he is not aware of what;s going on, because everything is done through the grandmother. What also is amazing the OC1 never calls my H when he is home on the weekend when he is with his stepfather. But when he and his mom is out and about he will call him at times. So that says to me there must be a problem with the new husband and this whole arrangement.

If everything was laid out truthfully to me, then I would have nothing to do but live with it or not.

So the issue as I see it is that after all he is getting with his connections with children and all that you have sacrificed as a wife and mother you are not happy with how you two are living. Like, what was this all for?
These are valid questions but prolly stuff that you have to figure out with a counsellor. After you get some objective assesment about this then approach Hubby with waht you want changed AND WHY.

You seem like someone who has sacrificed much and are wondering when is it my turn. The only reason you should be asking Hubby to change is if you expect him to fix it. I'm not saying he shouldn' try, or that what he does isn't part of issues that make you unhappy. I am pretty sure that you have sacrificedmuch for the childrens sake and would not want to do anything to hurt them.

So, Hubby must find a way to tend to your emotional problem but he can only change what makes sense. It makes no senseto abandon his children but it does make sense that he stop being part of decietful actions towards the other family. Stuff like that you will have to work out and it wont be easy splitting hairs.

Bottom line is does he care enough to work out with YOU what you need? And is what you want reasonable? There is a long and complicated history here and a family/personal counselor would be the first step. Look until you find one that knows something also and is willing to challenge you. So many are hand-holders who don't work on setting you free.

Yes, I have sacrificed a lot and wonder when will it be my turn. I seem to be making all of the sacrifices and not getting consideration of my feelings. I accepted his child born while we were still married. I accepted his role of father to a child that is not his, but he established that relationship while we were still married. But when I ask for consideration of my feelings, he makes it seem like I'm the worse person in the world. He really doesn't want accountability. And that is the core of our issue. Because there hasn't been accountability, I feel like a lot of deceitful stuff has been going on.

I took some of the advise I have received from several responses and decided to write my husband. I made a list of the things I needed to make me feel secure in our relationship. I also told him I would consider what would be in his best interest. But I also needed him to consider what would be in my best interest. I also requested we do the marriage builder program online. I would like to do the weekend, but we need help now. We have tried counseling, but after the second session he stormed out before session ended. The therapist suggested he listen to some of my concerns. It wasn't going the way he wanted the session to go. The therapist actually said to me that my h is married to the boys emotionally.(they are his wife) During one of our disagreements of having the boys attend after care, he ranted that the boys were the only thing that got him through his hard times and they were all he had. Mind you the hard times created by his wrong choices. They literally became his world. So I realize with this mentality he would go to great lengths to keep the relationship the way it has been for years. Even at the expense of our marriage and the expense of the boy's mother's marriage. He doens't see anything wrong with the deceit and untruths he has told. Because if you tell the truth the story will be the same every time. But his story changes.

So bottom line I have given him a list of things I need so I can be ok with his continued relationship. I have stated some of my boundaries and things I need him to do for accountability. Nothing out of the ordinary. The same stuff that is required in any marriage where an affair has occurred and children are involved. Maybe he thought accountablity wasn't needed because he left after the affair and we did not reunite for 10 years. But we have to deal with the same woman he destroyed our marriage over. Believe me it feels like it was yesterday, because these issues were never addressed. I did not tell him how long I would wait for a response. But I will address that.

Thank you for taking your time to allow me to vent and sort things out.

Have you taken the online course? If so, would you recommend it. Or would we benefit more from the weekend? I am presently reading "How to survive an affair" I will move onto "His Need Her Needs" I realize even though the affair was started over 12 years ago, it seems like yesterday to me because we did not go through the steps of healing.

Well, the additional information changed the dynamics some, but not really much.

My first impression is that he is using the only time he thinks he can to be with OC. He loves the boy. He is focused on what he believes to be the needs of the boys and by doing that is focusing on his need to follow through. Teenage boys need a lot of structure, guess girls do too.

It is obvious that business is your first priority. As a businessman, I very much understand that. The business must be a priority or you will not make it. When you work for someone else, you show up and work or get fired. That is easy for most folks to understand, especially after it happens a couple of times.

Now it is that when you own a business, you show and work as required or the business fires you. Often, people who don't understand go broke because they believe they have more freedom than they really do. In my memory bank are several deals where I watched that happen to people who didn't get it.

Based on the new information you posted, a couple of things are rattling around in my head. I will talk about them later. Right now, be aware that our responses here are based on what you say and what we perceive in what you say.

I like to use a key word, and that word is: Partner. Now what would YOU want in a partner?

Larry

First thing i want to say is a story and what I think it means. This is something a priest asked my friend when he was converting catholisism bucause he was going to marry a catholic.

Priest says.."In a marrage, Is it more important to love your wife or your children?"

Freind.. "well children of course"


Preist.. "Children need love thats true, but if you love your wife you will automatically love your children"


To me this addresses a couple of misconceptions in marriage, One is that we somehow don't need to care for our spouses and we become adorned with armor when we get married. We assume the work is over and God will now attend to the emotional needs of our spouses. Well at least the ones we don't "feel" like dealing with.


The other part of this and maybe the most important is that it is more difficult and demanding of us to love and stay in love with our mate. It is relativly easy for a child to look up to a parent and they are open books waiting to be written upon. Children believe what we tell them until they reach that age of questioning motive. Then they believe what they see. That is assuming of course they are allowed to have an open mind.

When a child sees someone back up what they say by actions they then know its real. When they see Mom and Dad have a special relationship that they are willing to sacrifice equaly for they trust that Mom and Dad know what they are doing and are safe.

Its harder to be "In love" with someone who has equal rights in the relationship. Its so easy to say to yourself, "I know how they are and I want..." then there is allways the fact that when we do good things for them they ussually take it for granted. Ya Know, Granted to us as we lose site of appreciation. We do things cuz we love them and wouldn't dream of stopping but they eventually lose sight of the gift. Its just a human condition that needs to be recognized and guarded against.

Kids can see thru BS at some age. Really loving and taking time to selflessly appreciate your spouse will automatically show your kids what love is, hence loving them. Blaming the spouse for all the troubles and being unrealistic about life will leave them confused and think love is conditional.

But human love IS conditional. Gods love isn't but we are told that we are human and not Christ right? we are also told that thier is no sacrifice that can trump Christs either. God gave us rules and for good reason. Stepping outside them ussualy results in problems. God doesn't want us to strap ourselve to the cross and die all overagain for humanity. He knows it wont work anyways and if we have to sacrifice for a time its wonderful but hey, we are only human. Eventually he calls us to reason.

I want to post this because I know that your heart is searching for answers. I don't think your hubby is addressing what you both need to be in love. I think its because he doesn't want to be challenged and is hiding in a form of admiration from the kids and thinks he is loving them when he uses deciet and trickery to spend time with them. Its such a desparate love is it not? Isn't it so passionate and needy taht he would do anything to be with them? What is he teaching them? Will his legacy be that they are afraid of the truth?

As far as your needs he doesn't care as long as his are met. You should be as his flesh. When you hurt he feels it. Instead he thinks of you as a problem that gets in the way of his life. I don't know if he has thouroghly addressed why he left and what he expected when he came back. But that is also something you need to address also for yourself. I appreciate putting things in the past but sometimes we are to quick to do that before we jump back in. If he doesn't deal with this he is going to lose you. Its allready brewing or you wouldn' be here.


Keep reading and seeking counsel as good healthy input and time will change what has become a painful situation for you. If you didn't "feel" like something was wrong you wouldn't be here. Your feelings are important and your H should be tending to them IMO

I want a partner who will be there for me through thick and thin, for better or worse in sickness and in health. I want a partner that would have my best interest at heart and I would have his. I want a partner who would learn me and anticipate my needs, because that is what I do for my h now. I want a partner who would be my protector. A partner who would admire me.

I understand about perception, because my h reminds me of that when I speak to him about our issues. It's not that I want the business to be a priority over the relationship. But what I do want is for him to handle his business so he will have a business. What I want most is for him to be transparent with his dealings with the OW. I don't think he wants transparency, because then certain things would have to be exposed to me and to her husband as well. And they don't want that to happen, because that would mess their arrangement up. He gets what he wants (as much access to the boy that is not his(he has a court order in place for his bio son, and she gets what she wants, very little responsiblity with either of the boys) She doesn't do homework or any school projects with either boy. On the days she has them, if they have homework it is left in their bookbag until my h gets them and have them complete it. School projects are left undone until he gets them. She is not very responsible with either boy, because her mother and my h continues to enable her. My h has been illegally registering him for school. But that was one of the first things I requested him to stop, because of the legal ramifications. He fought me tooth and nail, but finally complied. So because he couldnt register OC1 he choose not to register his bio son. So the day before school started he got the grandmother to register them both. The mother lives out of district. Recently, she moved even further out of district. But both boys attend the school in our district. In the court order my h can make the educational decisions for his son, so he could have registered his son. But because he couldn't register them both he choose not to register his bio son. I don't understand this. When I question him about stuff like this he says that he raised them to be together.

There is so much stuff that I need to get out so I can move forward. I don't want to write a novel, so I give you bits and pieces. I give you enough to get the jist of what's going on.

I can see and appreiate what you mean about a novel. The more busy and productive our lives are the more detail the discriptions are, along with with how inter-woven the problems become with the details. Everything can look fine on the outside yet stuff gets swept under the rug. One day someone says,"Wow. what happened?. I thought they were the perfect couple" Its lonely at the top.

I respect you and believe you have bent over backwards so please understand what I am saying......

You describe what husband is doing with the kids and his desire to be enthralled with the other woman. I can only speak for myself but I think we all understand what hes doing is wrong. By telling us those details its like..

(to steal a line from "As good as it gets"), ....

Your drowning and describing the water.

I dont know if you are aware of how many times you tell us that but as far as I can see. He is treating you like Mommy and her like his dependant girlfriend. Mostly because you have allowed it for so long because you were strong enough to shoulder the burden.

The good news is that you don't have to take it any longer. I don't know if you are afraid to make demands because he will leave but I can assure you taking care of yourself should be top priority. His emotional attachment to the OW family is way out of bounds. There are laws that he could use to assure his son and stepson were taken care of properly instead of what he is doing. He owes you that. He needs to put this in the hands of the proper authorities and stop being so involved with thier family for your respect and emotional sake.

You can spill your guts here if you think it will help. Some posters will respond with critisism maybe but you have to sift through what is helpful to you. "Eat the meat and spit out the bones" so to speak. I sense there is a lot of info you could give us but it might just be more describing the water. If you just need a place to vent thats cool too because we all do that here.

I just want to see you, and him, have a great marriage and be in love. Again, for the first time..it doesn't matter.

The simple principles that MB uses work for anyone reguardless of how sorted or detailed the problems between two ppl are. They are simple but not easy principles to practice because we make it harder than it has to be. It doesn't matter if you are an envoy to the UN or shovel poop for a living. The devil is in the details and if we take the time to practice good marriage principles we can have one. When we vow to be as one flesh we need to put our own selfish desires aside and be occupied with taking care of our other half. At least thats what I thought marriage was or was that just staying in love?

The fact that you are hurting would seem to me that he isn't living in the real world or acting responsible from what I gather here.

Make a list of what you need to change and impliment that change by letting him suffer the consequences. If he leaves then his loss. You will be able to live life with freedom of being disrespected. If he decides to change, same deal.

Read about plan A and B and make that desicion when your ready. PPl her are behind you.

Hmmm. . .

Well, I think that this is a key and reasonable point.


This a dirt simple and reasonable point of view.

First step for you: Make sure that your reasonable explanations HERE are the ones in your heart. While your need to be number one in your husband's heart is a good thing, please make sure that you really believe the story as you have explained it to us.

Secondly, have you thought of becoming a partner to your husband in one key area: taking care of those two boys? Have you thought about doing so in such a way as to enable his ability to be your partner?

Third, I think it is perfectly acceptable for you to be concerned about any possible emotional ties to the OW, who is the mother of his bio child. Emotional attachments to an old lover is not a good thing, period, end of sentence. And that should not need an explanation for husband, but might be useful if it is detailed in male terms he can understand.

By the way, your husband's desire to treat both boys the same in all details is a male thing and I applaud him for it.

Also, by the way, YES, my opinions can sometimes be considered as very cold. I am the outsider looking in and divorced from the emotional dynamics of the daily life you lead. My focus is on the dynamics of the marriage for the benefit of the marriage and it is not unknown for a party who is the betrayed, to be in need of a kick in the pants from time to time.

See, I am considering the earlier betrayal as an important factor here.

Now I should say that I have formed a liking for both you and your husband. You are both human beings struggling to sort out things in your life. I think both of you care about each other.

Adultery is the gift that keeps on giving, yes?

And that dynamic overhangs much of the goings on.

Have you and your husband considered going for custody of the OC? Have you considered making life a living hell for OW in terms of the way she is treating both boys? Just a thought. If it were me involved in this whole deal, I would be asking you for your backing to do exactly that.

Somehow you guys have got to get on the same page. Venting to us helps you, but it doesn't do much for him. He is doing the usual male dance of trying to alter the circumstances around him instead of looking inside himself for solutions. Worst dang male trait known except in war.

Just some thoughts.

Larry

Oh, one more thing.

If it were Harley, he would probably say that NO CONTACT for life with a prior partner in adultery means exactly that to protect the marriage. I agree with Harley.

He does allow for some exceptions, but not many. This deal here may or may not be an exception he would allow. I dunno. When it comes to an OC, there is a private forum for a reason. An OC makes things messy beyond belief or even coping sometimes.

Maybe it is time to haul in the professionals.

Larry

Good point Larry you expressed what I also saw. ITA.


By the way I don't see your comments as cold. Heck she doesn't have to see us every day or feel a connection to us in a personal sense. PPl here needobjective thought. thats what we do. We call it as best as we can and try to keep it simple. I think you are doing a great job.