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FP,
You get by it by not getting by it. You work your way THROUGH IT. That means you step back emotionally. It means you take stock of you, your goals, and where you would want your future to go. It means you assess what you have learned about being a good father, a good husband, and a good friend.
It also means you realize that the details don't really make it any worse than it was. YOU KNEW she was sleeping with him. YOU KNEW she felt she loved him. You KNEW that sex was topic A with them. So really you don't know any more than you did before, but you have to realize that and sort that out in your mind.
Next you need to understand something. If she is willing to talk to you about all of this, it usually means one of two things. She gets a kick out of torturing you or she is finally trusting you with her deepest and definitely darkest secrets. In the years past doing what you have done has often led to rebuilding the marriage.
So step back, and calm down. Your reactions are normal, but the details really have not told you anything you did not know or suspect.
PD, you wil get through this, and you will support your daughter and tell her how proud you are of her, i front of her friends. It will embarrass her and thrill her no end that her Dad thinks she as done something great. You will take her and your family out and you will celebrate somehow and you WILL enjoy it, because moments like these only come around once in your life. Savor your life PD, that is how you get through this.
God Bless,
JL
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Thanks you for the prayers and the responses.
JL - I needed that post. I have reread it three times and will read it again in the future. It has helped me immensely. You all have! The details only proved to me how deep the affair really was. When you play house together for a few nights like they did it is an incredible bonding experience and it only reminds me of how heavy and long her withdrawal will be despite the fact that she truly does ate him now. I am glad I heard it now while I was separated. If I was in the house I would have felt trapped. I'm glad it came out now.
Apparently the OM's W has slipped into a deep depression. She is bipolar. My W feels insanely guilty for what she did and she is the type to carry that cross for a long long time. She went to confession which helped alot but its hard not to slip back into the depression. I will admit I got emotional in front of her. She kept talking about the pain she caused the W and how much pain she is in and keeps on forgetting about me and the children. I had to remind her but I probably shouldn't. I told her She keeps thinking about her own pain and the pain of the other W but when that subsides you will begin to feel the pain of the people you actually love. She was devastated to hear that and it was probably the wrong thing. Sometimes I guess I just feel she is forgetting about me and the children and really wrapping herself up in herself. I wish I knew how to get her past that.
I am going to resolve through this. Todays confirmation WILL be about my daughters confirmation. I do need a little time to resolve through this before I can work on my plans to move back in the house. I really have no desire ever again to talk about this affair with her. She indicated there was more but I don't want to hear it anymore. What more could there possibly be.
LETTER BURNING CEREMONY
My W mentioned that she was going to go to her friends house and have an e-mail/memorabelia burning ceremony. I have my own e-mails I would like to burn as well. Any thoughts on how you all have done this in the past. Should I try to insert myself into the ceremony and bring my own e-mails (which she knows I have) or should I just let her do it on her own. What do you reflect on with these things.
Last edited by Floridapad; 02/27/10 09:29 AM.
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Sorry you had to hear that stuff but it's not like you thought they were playing scrabble the whole time. You will likely need to listen to more of it as you meet your wife's need for conversation in Plan A. It sucks but the more open and honest she is with you...the more intimate you two become. Unfortunately, she still has screwed up feelings about the encounters where it was really nothing more than debased sex...about as romantic as two pigs rutting in the mud [no offense to pigs intended].
Your comments were fine. As long as you weren't yelling and screaming at her, then it's OK to have conflict because it's only through conflict that intimacy can be reached. Plan A does have a carrot and stick to it. Reminding your wife of your hurt (and the children's) is part of the stick. Using the stick from time to time appropriately is necessary. Beating her with the stick is counter-productive. A couple of comments and being upset is to be expected and necessary. Interestingly, if you didn't get upset or lash out a little...your wife would likely think you didn't care at all about her. It's the tears you give her now that will haunt her the most later in recovery when she falls back in love with you.
Also, don't burn anything as you may need the "evidence" yet and don't go to this juvenile burning ceremony wherein your wife is mourning the death of her sick affair.
Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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When discussing the OM with the W what names do you use to refer to him/her. I have run the gambit between "your soulmate" (she didn't like that) to "cake eater" "affair partner" to simply "him". I just saw this on another thread...refer to him as "Susan's husband". (Whatever OMW's name is) Always by his wife's name. As her husband.
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I just saw this on another thread...refer to him as "Susan's husband". (Whatever OMW's name is) Always by his wife's name. As her husband.
Yes.
It is not a love buster to state a fact, unless it is done with sarcasm.
Bring reality home, in clear straightforward language.
This is why, I sometimes advise the BS to avoid the word "affair" (too sympathetic & romantic) and use the word adultery when speaking to their active WS.
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Great advice, Pep. 
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Great advice, Pep.
Another thing along the same line ... when a WW or WH is trying to recover their M, (and is in NC) ... if she/he is having trouble getting rid of romantic thoughts about a married OM/OW , I advise her/him to immediately replace the name of OM/OW with the spouses name AND the spouses face!
If their OP was not married, immediately replace the OP's name and face with their spouses name/face.
It takes discipline & practice.
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Great advice everyone. I think having her banish the images of romantic love is going to be the biggest challenge. She is a self admitted romantic at heart and obviously affairs can have an extraordinary facade of romanticism. More input on banishing this would certainly be appreciated. I always referred to her as the OM's W and never put a name on her. I will now.
Yesterday was confirmation. For me it was fantastic. I stuck to the advice you all gave me and focused 100% on my daughter and the joys of confirmation. I only briefly noticed that he was there. It was a great day for me. My W was very worried that his wife would show up and she had a lot of anxiety. I just kept smiling and remained positive.
OK I am now 98% sure about moving back in the house. I spoke to another freind of mine about how to justify it (maybe losing job etc) and he pretty much said the same thing as you all. I told him I wanted to send her an e-mail in the morning that I was moved in and he advised against it. He felt it would give her too much time to freak out think about it and come home with guns loaded. It was odd he thought. It almost seems "romantic" in a way that I would come home and fight for the family and my W in this way. He once had a deep affair and was able to get through it and is happily married. He has been advising me quite a bit along with you all. I woke up today at 5:00 and started scouring this site and beginning to develop a game plan. I'm going to do it not this coming Friday but the Friday after. I need to prep emotionally and logistically.
YEsterday my wife admitted that the only reason she asked for a separation was to be with OM. Yes not a shocker I know but it's the first time she actually admitted it rather than saying we're not compatible yada yada yada!
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Mr. W,
I don't like it. To me, it smells of weakness. How about, "I want to live in my house again with my family," and just leave it at that? You don't need any excuses. You don't need any permission. You want something, and you do it, and no amount of begging/pleading/negotiating from WW is going to get you to leave. Besides, trying to reason/negotiate with a WW is a fool's endeavor. She has a problem with it? "Sure honey, your grievance is noted," and walk away. Just get her used to living with you and not being able to manipulate you anymore. Show her you aren't afraid of her anymore. She'll think, "OMG, I told him I would file if he didn't move back out, and it didn't even phase him. I better get my act together before he leaves me."
Move back in. Be strong. Avoid arguments and relationship talks. Meet her needs when the window is open. Avoid LBs. Be the man of the family. I think your response is reasonable and certainly simplier than mine; however, I've seen other BH's in similiar situations take "simplier" advice and walk themselves into a crapstorm fully unprepared. I want FloridaPad to keep it simple and stay strong too, I just want him to also be well versed in BULLCRAP (not reason) which he can throw back at his WW if and when his WW goes absolutely nuts. I hope she doesn't. I hope his wife says "OK...it's about time you came home, my counselor recommended it actually". I think the timing is right. He should be short, firm and strong up front, but we don't know how she's going to react and he needs to be prepared as she very likely will progress through her bag of well-practiced manipulations to get what she wants (FP to move back out). Bag of Manipulations = Anger, Threats, Crying, Yellings, Begging, Blameshifting, Lying, Promising, Gaslighting, Seeking outside validation (calling friends and family, Seeking Outside Manipulation (cops, attorneys). FP needs to be prepared to respond to it all and simply walking away from a ranting, yelling, crying, begging, lying withdrawing wayward wife isn't going to work. [he'll stay but he won't get any sleep and he won't seem like he cares at all about her]. Further...AVOIDING CONFLICT isn't rebuilding a relationship or Plan A. You've sometimes got to wander into the fog to pull a WW out of it. Even in letting her vent at him...it's meeting her need for conversation. It's relatively easy to do as HE now knows she's fogbabbling and won't pay it any mind. She can't say ANYTHING to hurt him anymore. He's rubber and she's glue. If she's yelling...he whispers but he NEEDS to keep her talking and distract her from the issue of him moving back out (which ain't gonna happen) onto other topics...and then keep her talking TO HIM instead of her running off and calling OM or 15 friends and 5 family members looking for validation and one or more of whom MAY suggest calling the cops, speaking with an attorney or even faking a domestic abuse incident. Don't avoid conflict. Just don't move out or give her ANY indication that she can talk or manipulate you into moving back out [if you give her ANY crack she'll think she's breaking you and you will only be making your situation 10 times worse) Last thing: She doesn't really care if he leaves her right now. She doesn't care about anything but herself right now. He could file for divorce tomorrow and she'd be sad and maybe PLAY the victim, but deep down...her give a crap is broken. Mr. Wondering Part of the reason I want to use the job situation as justification is because it gives HER justification to allow me back in the house with out "thinking" I am there to solely work on the marriage. She will be able to in her mind justify me being there and perhaps not feel as "trapped" because I am back solely to reconcile. It almost gives her an excuse for letting me in with less friction. I can also say and BTW while I'm here you can file for divorce , we can split up the assets and be done or we can try to make this work. She started mentioning that she loved me and cared for me but she wanted the sexual romantic side. She keeps mentioning over and over that we never even had sex on our honeymoon. She is definately looking at the base of our relationship and subconsciously comparing it to the affair. Our sex life was never the greatest. We were both repressed. It wasn't until she turned 40, got a boob job started working out wearing make up for the first time (all before the OM) that HER sexuality came about. I had my own issues as well but they are resolved. She keeps bringing up the first two years saying it was not as good as she wanted for a base. This of course she is saying during her affair. When I said "Fine then lets get a divorce she backed off gave me a concerned looked, collected herself, and said in a soft tone "if that's what you want". I said no but I am not waiting for a chance at reconciliation forever. Thats when she talked about dating etc etc. She truly doesn't want this divorce but she doesn't want to go back to the life of "existence" She needs to understand that part of her life in existence is her own doing. She will give me a divorce if I want one not because she wants to be rid of me but because she could tell her self she is doing it for me and my happiness afterall the damage she has done.
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I know I'm writing alot but I feel a history of our relationship is in order. My wife and I have always got along, we had our fights and their were times where we both didn't like each other. I see where my wife never felt loved by me. I was an emotional robot. Never knew what love was. Didn't know how to show care other than through providing her with "things" and doing the right thing in the relationship even though it all seemed rehearsed. I was never in touch with my feelings. I married my W because she was hilarious, sharp, extraordinarily giving, caring, but the sexual side was not entirely there. She had low self esteem and never was in touch with her sexuality. Never wore make up. Never looked at a cosmo magazine in her life, never wore feminine clothing, etc etc. She turns 40 and bam it hits and it turns me on. I wish she could see this as being part of the problem in the beginning and how all those issues with me and her have been resolved with in ourselves. (although my wife calls herself a slut now). I have grown immensely and perhaps she will see herself as growing and we can reconnect for who we are today. During the affair she used to say we are different people now. My thought is yes thank the Lord that we are but lets rebuild and connect. She used to say there was no base to rebuild (during the affair) of course. At one point she thought she wasn't in love with me when we married. I know its affair talk but I just wish she could let that stuff go and focus on who we are today.
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Hi Floridapad,
I'm watching from a distance while remodeling the house. I do not want to make any extra comment other that I am pleased that you are making a concerted effort to re-establish your marriage.
As you can see, the folk here are giving solid advice. I continue to wish you well.
But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
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I spoke with J Harley tonight about the situation. She felt based on the circumstances it was not the right time to go commando and to not move in because I wasn't ready and my W is in such withdrawal she would be love busting me to death and it would be a short lived attempt. She is right. I'm not ready. I need to spend the next month buckeling down and getting my sh*t together more. Talking about the A with my W has gotten a little better but we tend to end up in the same place. I start great but after hearing about details of the affair for a long time I eventually can't hold it in and I start to educate and preach which is a major love buster of hers. I need to try and establish a little more intimacy and self control but it is so hard to do it. I can last for about 15 20 minutes but as I discover new things I blow. Establishing intimacy and a foundation prior to dating is essential. Unfortunately the only way to establish that intimacy is to talk about something that causes me a great deal of pain. I have gotten better at sucking it up but to put myself into the house permanently when I am not ready will not last. She focused on me for most of the conversation which was good. She continues to stress trying to create a new image of what a new lifestyle would be like in the marriage and then talk to the W about that. Have the W help in creating a new lifestyle. She suggested I let my lease run out through May which is when school would be ending and hopefully the withdrawal will lift more quickly as they no longer have to see each other. Then I can reconsider moving back in. She has committed to nothing as far as a firm reconciliation and she fears being thrust into a situation where my giver would be working full time when my love bank is low will be very risky. Reestablish some of my love bank through self filling and be prepared. I am going to write another letter and send it to her but I am taking my time on this one.
Thank you all for helping out. Im glad had the consult with JH.
Imagine- thanks for keep up on the sitch.
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Well as if things couldn't get any better, I lost my job. Wonderful timing. I'm going to go back on the meds. I will need a little extra help as I process the loss of my ability to provide for my family, the loss of my W and the loss of family unity. God is testing me. I will not fail! It's just time to step up. Never thought a man could be challenged like this. I will not fail!
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FP,
I don't know you well enough to offer the right words of encouragement. I hope you will be able to connect with the right friends that can offer you some support. Friends and family are important in times like this.
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I told the W about me losing my job. She had the deer in the headlights look. I talked a bit ab9out how everything will be ok and it will work out and she just listened. I also mentioned that I will probably have to find a room mate some where (she just doesn't know its her yet :-)). I wanted her to stew on that room mate thing for a while because it kind of means she will now have the kids ALL the time and her fantasy world of breaks every other weekend is shattered.
After I told her I went into the other room and she came to me and hugged me and asked me if I was OK. I said yes. It's been a bit stressful but I'm good. She immediately began perking up and smiling and joking. I'm going to let her stew on this for a while. At the end of the day I'm moving back in regardless of how she comes back at me with her perceived solution tot he issue. I have my own solution.
I received an e-mail from the OM's W. She said that if I had any more info on the affair she would like to know. I do not. She also said they are going to thereapy and reading alot. Should I let my W see this e-mail?
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NO! She does not need to be hearing about the OM.
I hope that you have good luck finding a new job. It is tough in this market. As for moving in, that seems to be the right time and solution.
hang in there.
God Bless,
JL
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Thanks for the input and well wishes JL.
I know I will be able to find something eventually. Moving in is something I know needs to happen. My W is still in heavy depression and it's going to make it tough without her love busting me. I'm really going to need a strong plan A that also allows for me to not put myself in a situation where she will love bust me. I will need to somehow preserve the remaining love I have left. The giver taker balance is going to be critical. My W's concern right now is her lack of desire to want to have sex with me. She "loves me but is not "in love" with me. I need to figure out how to increase my desireability on the sexual side. I'm not sure how to go about this. I would love to know how people have approached this in the past!
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I'm really going to need a strong plan A that also allows for me to not put myself in a situation where she will love bust me. I don't think this is possible. She is going to LB and you can't do anything about that. A strong Plan A will give her less easy things to LB about, but you know a wayward will blame you for the weather or the color of the paint if they can't come up with something legit. Practice responding calmly and removing yourself from the situation: "I don't appreciate being yelled at. I look forward to talking to you later in a calm manner." and go to your room, the garage, whatever. My W's concern right now is her lack of desire to want to have sex with me. She "loves me but is not "in love" with me. I need to figure out how to increase my desireability on the sexual side. I'm not sure how to go about this. I would love to know how people have approached this in the past! For most women, in general, they only feel interested in sex after their top ENs have been met. This usually means they want to have plenty of conversation and affection before they feel close enough to a man to want sex with him. Usually. In general. Your mileage may vary. If she is in a state of withdrawal (not withdrawing from the affair, but withdrawal rather than conflict or intimacy) your Plan A will not make deposits and she will not feel like having SF with you. That's just the way it is. This will change in time with a good Plan A on your part and a transition out of withdrawal on her part.
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I told the W about the loss of my job and that I will likely need to move in the house. She had the deer in the head lights look and suggested that I move in with her parents until I found something. Huh? I told her no. She then suggested that I move in with her parents for a few weeks and that she was going to Italy for three weeks and that I stay at the house that time. I said I would think about it. She also said she might move in with her parents. She was not receptive to us living under the same roof.
I will get back into that house. My lease expires in May.
I guess what I need now is a good Plan A. Any suggestions??
She is in MLC and still trying to find her identity as a person and not a "wife". She is still in deep depression and is on the max allowable for Lexipro.
I read her diary again. The last log was a month ago four months after NC with OM. Apparently the OM told a mutual friend that he didn't love her. She was heart broken i the diary. The log was almost a letter to OM asking how he could be so cold and hoped that he still truly loves her. She hopes that he will say goodbye at the end of the school year and tell her that he loves her.
I can't wait for this school year to be over. She can't competley get through her withdrawal while she is working in the same school as OM can she???
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I told the W about the loss of my job and that I will likely need to move in the house. She had the deer in the head lights look and suggested that I move in with her parents until I found something. Huh? I told her no. She then suggested that I move in with her parents for a few weeks and that she was going to Italy for three weeks and that I stay at the house that time. I said I would think about it. She also said she might move in with her parents. She was not receptive to us living under the same roof.
I will get back into that house. My lease expires in May.
I guess what I need now is a good Plan A. Any suggestions??
She is in MLC and still trying to find her identity as a person and not a "wife". She is still in deep depression and is on the max allowable for Lexipro.
I read her diary again. The last log was a month ago four months after NC with OM. Apparently the OM told a mutual friend that he didn't love her. She was heart broken i the diary. The log was almost a letter to OM asking how he could be so cold and hoped that he still truly loves her. She hopes that he will say goodbye at the end of the school year and tell her that he loves her.
I can't wait for this school year to be over. She can't competley get through her withdrawal while she is working in the same school as OM can she??? 1) You are still not back in the house yet? 2) You'll think about moving in with her parents? 3) You can't plan A very well when you don't even live in the same house. It's hard to make enough love unit deposits to break through the wall if you are never around. 4) No, she can't get through withdrawal if she works w/ OM. 5) Why are we trying to help you when you won't even help yourself? Just move back home already, and go to Italy with your wife and kids. Quit being such a pushover.
Last edited by jmwc95; 03/23/10 04:11 PM.
Jim BS - 32 (me) FWW - 33 Married 8/31/03 No kids (but 3 cats) D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA) NC agreed to - 11/8/06 NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07 Status - In Recovery Jim's Story
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