HT, when you exposed to her family, did you give them accurate and complete information about the affair? What happened?

ML: I gave a fairly full accounting including a couple of e-mails and a local hotel receipt on a credit card. Once MIL learned that her ten year old grandson had been told she lit up (I believe she is afraid my ten year old will say something to her husband who is my WW's Stepfather. WW's Stepfather was best friends with POSOM). WW's stepfather is not in very good health. Sort of a mess not that this is ever clean.
MIL has now said "I am afraid that your husband will hurt you" to WW. Of course who knows what she has been told.... Clearly WW has be trashing me for some time to defend her actions.
I guess I am finally arriving at a point where what will be will be. I'm not quite ambibalent, I am just exhausted and I don't think I can do anything more. The next moves are up to WW in my book.
For the moment

You must tell FIL about WW and the OM.

HT, when you say the stepfather is not in good health, does this mean he is not lucid enough to be told? What about the OM's wife? Has she been told the truth? She needs to know the truth, and so does the SF if he is capable of handing such news.

And I am dubious of anything that your wife reports her mother has said. I believe she has embellished in order to make you feel worse. If that is the case, it makes me wonder if your MIL has known about the affair all along and has helped hide it. Is that the case?

MIL did not know about first A - with man who died in January who was best friend of FIL. MIL did know about second (sort of) but did not know for certain. May be in disbelief stage or just afraid for her daughter if I leave marriage (economic issues). I have made it clear I do not want to leave marriage but that I need a trustworthy mate. FIL has had two heart attacks in last four months and he grieved himself into the second heart attack at the funeral of the man who died in January (POSOM #1). Not sure he can handle it. The second A was with a male student at wife's nursing school this past year. Retired pilot going to nursing school along with his daughter. It seems this one is over and did not last long - WW realized it was error or POSOM #2 got his trophy and moved on. MIL definitely knew of the "friendship" with #2 and may have not known anything else until I exposed with e-mails and hotel info.
MIL is mostly PO about my ten year old being told based on what I know. MIL is also PO because I attempted to prevent her from taking ten year old out of our house shortly after the exposure. No question WW has embellished with her family - that began last year and even I have fallen victim to it.
Without question, WW has emotionally abused me for a decade by ignoring me (refusing to spend even a Saturday night dinner with me alone, bringing kids on anniversary dinners, over-spending and belittling me with the kids hundreds of times over my weight etc.).
I have continued to back off and simply be polite, respectful and I am going forward with our vacation plans to ski together this coming Saturday - Wednesday next week. I have even brushed WW's hair at bedtime till she has fallen asleep, rubbed her feet with lotion and her back. I am not chirping "I love you" etc. looking for something in return. In a twist suddenly WW is texting me cute messages about our dog, and on the phone she sounds more caring (tone, intonation of voice) than I have heard in years. Not sure what to make of it. I am making an effort to use humor and to be in good cheer. Anti-D definitely a helpful tool in that regard. Don't think I could do that without it. I am also working with personal therapist on blocking the negative thoughts, images etc. re: betrayal so that I do not further depress myself.
I am keeping the ball in WW's oourt for now and I am being supportive of her studying this week as she approaches final exam on Friday in nursing school. Funny story - WW submitted a take home test (took her 12 hours to do) that she had sweat blood on last weekend. College computer apparently did not save it and WW did not keep a copy on home computer. I pretended to go into HTML of ram memory on home PC. I deliberately "gibberished" it up and only gave her 80% of it. But it was enough for her on Sunday afternoon to spend two hours and finish it off leaving her time to study for a test on Monday which she passed. WW has a grade of 77 and needs to get a 79 on final exam to pass course. Of course I went into keylogger and recovered her exam question responses on Sunday and pasted it into a word document. I did get praise for that. She still doesn't know about keylogger (giggle... I am wondering when she will figure it out...). She used local library computer for most of her correspondence by e-mail. The exposed e-mails were from her e-mail "sent" file and she did leave the computer on and signed in so I told her that is where I got them from.
Maybe there is some hope here. Meanwhile, I have told the hospital that I am leaving at the end of my current contract (one year from now). I am keeping myself very busy, will help find a replacement and am working on a consulting practice for myself when I leave. Trying to keep structure in my life as this goes on. Perhaps if I am at home more in the future that will help if we can get to that point.
Meanwhile, I pray frequently, am keeping busy and getting support from my siblings and adult children.
MIL is going to watch our ten year old on the ski vacation.
Right now my gut tells me the ski vacation may be a time for becoming the friends WW and I were before we ever dated. Maybe that is where we need to start. I do not want to "imprison" WW in the marriage. But I don't wish to be imprisoned either. I am a good man, yes I have yelled at home (almost like clock work about once every three months) but I am not alone in that. WW has had her moments and the emotional abandonment of me has been significant and I see that now. No wonder the harder I tried in the marriage the more frustrated I became!
For the moment,this is where I am. My family continues to tell me I am crazy to give in to WW's request for 100% of everything if she files and while I was willing to do that even a month ago, I now see that differently.
I am reminded of something MIL said several months ago... "You can't love what you don't respect." Well, I am trying hard to respect myself now. I have my faults but I do realize that I am a good man in a bad situation. WW has the ability to be wonderful and gentle if she wants to. SO I guess the ball is in her court now. I would struggle without her, but I also realize that she has not been there for me for a very long time.
Its up to her.
Sorry for the long post. Its probably theraputic for me.
Blessings ML and others...

hurtingturkey
ME: me BS age 55 male
WW: age 48 female
Ours: age ten
Hers: 21 and 17
Mine: 21, 27 and 30
Original DD: April 26, 2010
2nd DD: Feb 1, 2010
Exposed 2/19/10

HT,

You said something that bothers me a lot. Now Mel or Pep might take exception to what I am about to say, but I firmly believe this. You said

Exposure is NOT an MB strategy. I firmly believe this and I think it demeans what Dr. Harley is getting at. What is Dr. Harley's strategy in my opinioon is that support, honesty, and information are the ONLY ways to survive an affair. I believe the data is very clear that this is true. The only way to acheive these things is if friends and family are in the loop and that requires that they know. Further, there is enormous documented evidence that children KNOW and sense a great deal during a beak up and they tend to assume it is their fault and this harms them. The ONLY way to address this is to give them the truth in an age appropriate manner.

You MIL needs to know this. Your W needs to understand this. AND most imporantly YOU need to understand this.

In case you don't sense it, I am very passionate about this. MB did not create honesty, openness, or support, it simply is pointing out the obvious. You are not going to get it unless you ask and that requires you tell people what is going on and what you need.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

JL, if you are saying that exposure is not the exclusive domain of MB, then I would agree with you. But if you are saying that MB does not advocate exposure, that would be a grossly inaccurate statement. Exposure IS a "MB strategy" as outlined in numerous writings, radio shows and speeches by Dr Harley. He calls it the "single most important step toward recovery." He has advocated it for YEARS and recently wrote:



Dr. Harley settled this issue once and for all in his 10-28-2009 newsletter "When should an affair be exposed" and is rewriting Surviving an Affair to include his advocacy of exposure. He was aware of board debates on this issue and wrote the newsletter to put the issue to bed. He began his newsletter:


AND




Case closed on whether or not exposure is a MB strategy....

Mel,

You missed my point. I am saying that the use of the term "strategy" implies that MB is advocating manipulating people with force or threats. Dr. Harley advocates honesty, support, and the truth for effective rebuilding or saving the marriage. Exposure has taken on a life of its own and is thought of as a tool.

Exposure is simply not a threat nor a tool. It is the only way to achieve honesty, support, and clarity in the situation. It is a shorthand way of saying; "reach out seek support and be honest with your spouse and those that surround your spouse and yourself. It isn't even a club. It is simply what you do when you seek to bring honesty into the marriage and when you seek support to protecting your marriage.

Honesty has a way of making affairs look rather tawdry. Support has a way of reenergizing the Bs to do what is so counter to our instincts.

My point is that exposure is not a wapon, it is what you do when you want to bring honesty into the equation. I know the term "nuclear exposure" is often used and I get what people are tyring to say. But to me it implies we are simply going to "blow" away a lot of stuff and hopefully the affair.

The WS often think it is being used in revenge or a way to add pain to their lives. I contend that Harley means it to bring honety to their lives and marriage and that definitely works against affairs

When a BS comes here we right tell them to expose the affair. But, we are really telling them is be honest and seek support. Thnk about Harleys concept of radial honesty. In a very direct way, exposure is application of that policy.

I think many WS's or WS's on their way to being FWS's would understand exposure much better if it is couched in the terms of seeking honesty and support for the BS and the marriage.

Those are my thoughts.

JL

Exposure is a two edged sword.

One side of the blade brings out the truth.

Which is needed to end the affair.

The other side of the blade brings pain, embarrasment, revenge. Whether all some or none of these things are wanted they will happen.

When the exposure sword blade stabs an affair the blade cuts with both edges.

The BS should not fear what exposure does. Iodine hurts but it is put on the cut to clean out the infection.

The WS should of kept their pants on. If they did there would not be a need to use the "iodine". The WS needs to grow up and own that their actions have caused the justifiable use of exposure.

Actually it IS a weapon...... against the affair.

I think JL it is you, not Mel who has this wrong. I think what Dr Harley has said takes away all doubt about the subject.

Actually, it always amazes me when people imply that there are good and bad reasons for exposure. It actually doesn't matter what the motivation of the person exposing is - it's still just as effective. The WS invariably hates it and sees it as revenge until the affair is busted and the cranial rectal extraction has taken place.

"Strategy" simply means a careful plan by definition and that accurately defines exposure. It is more than a tool, it is a weapon against the affair. It is the FIRST STEP in a careful plan ["strategy"] to recover the marriage. A careful plan devised to bring the marriage to a point where it can recover. Harley calls it the FIRST STEP towards recovery:



I have found that no WS will understand or accept exposure until the fog rolls off. It is like a falling down drunk who is furious because you took the car keys away. He might be angry that he can�t go drunk driving while he is drunk, but will be grateful when he sobers up. Exposure is the same way. And when a WS sobers up, they will not be angry, they will be grateful.

I actually agree with this statement. Whether exposure is motivated by strategy or revenge, whether it's delivered calmly or violently....the result is mainly the same and the wayward is going to hate it for obvious reasons. A wayward spouse doesn't care why they're being exposed....they just don't want to be outed because it complicates their selfish lives.

But, that doesn't mean that all exposure is created equal, and I think that HT is a perfect example of why. While exposure in any form may create the same effect on the affair, the delivery can create new problems for the BS. HT said:


And his MIL said:

I think it's important that when we describe exposure as "nuclear", we don't confuse anyone into thinking it means violent or destructive, because unfortunately some of these marriages are going to end anyway....and the demeanor of the BS will be examined when custody issues arise. It's natural for a BS to be angry...even loud....but there is an advantage (for the BS) if they can complete exposure while remaining as calm and controlled as possible. Since exposure in any form has the same effect of shedding light on the affair....why not choose the form that has the least negative repercussions for the betrayed spouse. It doesn't help HT to give people like his MIL ammunition to shoot back at him. Plus, the calmer the BS is....the more likely it is that the WS will be the one who looks hysterical and crazy.

kwim?

This is a very important point, which is why I often advocate remaining completely calm and even using talking points when exposing. I don't think he was ever confused by the term "nuclear," he simply lost his temper. HurtingTurkey knows this was not a proper way to treat his MIL. While the ACT of exposure should be "nuclear" to the affair, that does not mean exposure should be done by yelling and screaming and intimidating. It should be done calmly, rationally in a respectful plea for support.

HT, I hope you do follow up with my suggestion to call your MIL and apologize. You need her on your side and she can�t very well help your marriage if she is scared of your rages.

Well, I certainly believe in it. It is an impressive tool.

Although, my wife immediately went to a lawyer who told her it was harrassment. Then, her psychologist told her that Dr Harley was wrong. It was not her fault that her family turned on her after hearing what she had done. He told her it was my fault, because it was my decision to tell everyone. Regardless of what she had done, it was my decision and my actions that caused pain in a lot of people.

I guess when you pay someone $100/hr, they will tell you exactly what you want them to, especially when they hear her one-sided sob story. Either they are all foggy or she is lying again. I guess it doesn't matter which.

Anyway, her family was grateful to hear it, though - the truth that is. It explained a lot of her actions and validated what they thought. The point is that, in a great majority of cases, waywards will not appreciate you protecting their reputation. They are too consumed with infatuation for the other person and any positive actions you take will be taken for granted. Helping her cover the affair only prolongs it. Exposure is powerful, but be prepared for the wayward's wrath.

I must disagree. Exposure IS a weapon - and that is OKAY and JUST. An affair is EVIL and there is absolutely nothing wrong with using a weapon to fight evil.

The Bible tells us this in Ephesians 6:11-18 as a matter of fact...


Truth IS a weapon to fight evil. With all due respect, I think you are arguing semantics, JL...

Mrs. W

Mrs. W,

Absolutely I am arguing semantics. My point is I know a lot about weapons. I also know that using a weapon means intent to hurt. I also know that most often using a weapon is an option. Most BS's when they come here and are told to expose are told it is "a weapon to end the affair and save their marriage". Or at least the best weapon. They then often think "But I don't want to hurt Ws, I love him/her. They will be mad if I punish them with exposure."

And then we say, "YOU have to and it is recommend by Harley and is part of the MB approach."


My point is that exposure is NOT OPTIONAL. It is not a WEAPON. It very likely makes the WS mad, but honesty and support are crucial to the BS making it and Oh by the way, truth and honesty tend to put a crimp in an affair.

I believe and strongly believe that a marriage without honesty won't function well. I believe that someone trying to save a marriage and end an affair without honesty will not succeed or rarely so.

I BELIEVE that exposure is a REQUIREMENT for recovery because it brings truth and honesty back into the dynamics of the marriage.

Therefore, it is not about punishment, pain, etc. It is about HONESTY and it is about the BS seeking support. Until the BS understands this then even the form of the letter most are recommended to send to other people doesn't really make sense to them. We are NOT telling them to harm their spouse. Nor are we telling them to do this to cause pain although as TheRoad said, it does often do that.

WE ARE TELLING THEM THAT HONESTY AND THE TRUTH are required and I think that is what Dr. Harley is saying.

Think about it.

JL

I totally agree with you JL. You are an extremely wise man.

JL, you and I view weapons very differently then. I do not view them as "intent to hurt", I view them as a means to PROTECT - I view exposure as a DEFENSIVE WEAPON. The BS, the children AND YES, the WS need to be PROTECTED/DEFENDED from the evil that the WS has brought into the family. The use of a weapon isn't optional, imo, when your family is UNDER ATTACK, as is the case with adultery.

Exposure isn't intended to hurt the WS, and I never say that here - In fact I most often tell BSs that it is a means to RESCUE their spouse - as if they are lying on the floor of a crack house...The WS is hurt by their choice to commit adultery though, not by exposure.

Newbies are told that the affair should be brought out of the darkness and into the light with exposure. Many times the phrase "tsunami of truth" is used alongside exposure. Really it's talked about in many different ways here, so I'm not sure what it is that you have taken issue with. I don't see a need to reinvent the wheel.


No, they don't have to, but it is the best thing for all involved.



Again, semantics - I personally have no problem with calling exposure a weapon used to fight the evil of adultery, but you or anyone else here is certainly under no obligation to do so...totally cool by me...You can call it a cotton ball if ya want!


AGREE.


Absolutely agree with the above also.


Who says exposure is punishment? I don't. Again, though it isn't exposure that causes the pain, it's the adultery.


People here are told all the time that "honesty is the solution to adultery"...We don't disagree...I apologize JL, but again I really don't understand what it is that you have taken issue with - I think it's about perception...dunno...

Mrs. W

Now, THAT is wisdom. Great coherent post, MrsW. Of course a weapon is to PROTECT, unless in the hands of a criminal. A BS is not a criminal; he uses the WEAPON of exposure to run off the assault of an affair.