I've been lurking here for many years, and am now posting as my son's relationship is in crisis.

DS, age 23
P (partner) age 18
DGD (their daughter) age 1

Several weeks ago P announced she was leaving DS, but at the last moment conceded to a "3 month trial". After a few weeks during which it seems things were going well, P & DGD travelled to a major city (where her family/friends live) to attend a wedding. Several weeks later it was clear she was enjoying living it up, going out with friends, partying etc., and it came out that she had been lying to her family about who she was keeping company with.

Sure enough, it appears there is another man in the picture. DS discovered this after contacting the friend she claimed to be going out with, only to find that friend did not know she was in town.

On being confronted in a phone call, P accused DS of being controlling, not trusting her, blah blah as per wayward script, and announced it was over. In another conversation she admitted to sharing a bed with the OM, "but nothing happened", and that she had also shared a bed with another man, an old school friend. Needless to say, DS is very unhappy about this. He has spoken to her family, and they are also unhappy about the turn of events.

DS is currently a mess. They are 800km (500 miles) apart, and he is understandably frustrated that attempts at resolution can't be undertaken when she has made herself unavailable by phone for days at a time, and in attempts to discuss the issue P puts all blame back on him.

I had recently sent them the Harley books, HNHNFP, LB and FILSIL, so DS has some familiarity with the concepts. Unfortunately, the books arrived the day P flew out for the wedding, and she is obviously foggy. I've explained Plan A and B to DS, and assured him she is pretty much on script, but he is still at a loss.

P has declared it will take a year of DS "romancing" her for her to consider coming back, but that she does not plan to stay celibate during that time (IOW, she will sleep with who she likes). Classic cake-eating . Understandably, DS is unhappy about that idea.

I'll send him the link to this post and hope he comes on board. I hope the input from others (as opposed to just mum) will help.

Just FYI, I am thousands of km from where they both are, so all I can offer is phone support at this point.

Are they married, LC?

Not married, cohabitating for 2 years. And before anyone gets upset, we're in Australia, where the age of consent is 16. I know, she is young, but DS still wants to work things out.

LC, the best advice I can give is to get Dr Harley's book, Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders and jump the chapter titled the "curse of living together before marriage." These relationships have an astronomically high rate of divorce if they ever do make it to marriage, 85%. In this case, I would say the odds are greater becuase they are too young and immature to be in a serious relationship. I really sympathize with you, but if this were my son, I would be telling him to move home with the granddaughter and focus on raising her for the next 15 years. Otherwise he and your GD are going to go through hell trying to endure the turmoil this teenage girl is going to inflict on them.

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LC, here is something I would explain to your boy. He has "feelings" right now for this young girl, but those feelings will go away after another year or two of her abusive, cruel behavior and he will have nothing to show for his efforts. There is no future in this relationship. None.

He would be better off abandoning this tortous path NOW and suffering some short term pain for long term GAIN. If he pursued her, he will have short term pain, long term pain and NO GAIN.

Hopefully he can use this as a lesson to practice better judgment in the future and learn from his mistakes. But to continue on the same treacherous path makes no sense. He should quit before he loses more.

I know where you are coming from, Mel, but there is a baby at stake here too. DS wants to preserve his family. It seems likely that if they remain apart DGD will stay with P (she is with her now), and he fears losing that connection with DGD.

ETA: I have a copy of BRF, but it is with an interstate friend. I'm arranging for DS to get it.

I understand he wants to preserve his family, but wouldn't you admit that is very unrealistic? I can't even imagine how this could be turned around and I am a natural optimist. I see disaster and pain no matter where I look. The best hope I see is for him to get custody and cut his losses by getting out of the relationship.

Could he get custody of the baby?

I don't see any reason why he *couldn't*. Having said that, if push came to shove, I don't know that there would be grounds to remove her from P's care. She is a good mother, just young and feeling her oats, so to speak. I think it would be a minefield for all.

DS, how do you feel about posting? I think it would help to get your perspective.

She sounds like she is more interested in partying and sleeping around than in being a mother. Where is the baby when sleeps around? That would be a serious problem in a custody case in my country, at least.

After my mother has posted such info I believe I should also put in my side of the story.

I know I am quite young as was P. We've lived together for 2 years in which time have had a gorgeous little girl. I've been able to get a decent job and house to look after my family.

I have been very paitient (which I get from mum), but also quick to question doubt as to what P does when she goes out, due from previous relationships which have ended up with the other partner being unfaithful. My difficulty to trust has been a thorn in many of my relationships.

P and myself had split for a brief period of time and then when we had calmed down sat down and discussed how we felt. The next few weeks were very good. Then once she left for the wedding contact was very scarce and brief. On explaining to me that she had been working with her friends now brother in law I expressed my concerns as she was staying up the night drinking heavily and writing the speeches for the wedding. She assured me that nothing happened. The wedding was over then she went to her grandmothers for a few days.
Whilst there contact continued to be brief and scarce. Upon ringing her as she was getting ready to bath our daughter, I asked what time would she be available to talk, which resulted in her becoming moody with me citing the words "You can't just spring this on me."
From there on arguements continued and she informed me that she was going out on the town with a friend (whom she did name).
After the night she had told me through a text message that she had a good time so I messaged her friend to say thank you to which her reply was "I'd love to say your welcome but I didn't even know she was in town."
Upon approaching her with why she lied her comments were "I'm damned if I tell you the truth because you get so jealous and I'm damned if I don't."
In a previous arguement she pushed my trust issues saying "I've never trusted her." At which point in my frustration I said I didn't.

My current working situation is that I work shift work. 2 weeks on 1 week off on 12 hour days which is what many people are on where I live. I stood by her as she suffered from depression for 6 months last year and also helped her find her biological father as to which she had never met (as her biological parents had a very messy breakup while P's mother was still pregnant and never sought out P's father).
I have decided to go into lone councilling as I am (understandably) feeling quite down, but also to combat low self-esteem and attempt to deal with my issues of trusting others.

Edit: Daughter has been looked after by both her parents (who have there own families now) while she went out. Both have told me while it was okay for them to look after the daughter because they were under the belief that she would be coming back home they've said if a permanent move was made they wouldn't be looking after our daughter so she can go out and enjoy a nightlife all the time.

LearningMKI, I am so sorry you are in this situation. You sound like a wonderful young man. Hopefully, you can get some relief from counseling.

P & DGD are staying with her father and his family at the moment. As I understand it, P's stepmum has been babysitting.

I know it sounds grim - upon reading it I'd be picturing a drunken party girl neglecting her daughter, but I don't think that's the full reality. I think she is a young girl who thought playing family would be more fun and less tedious than it is, and she is having trouble adjusting. On top of this, she has had some health issues which necessitated her being away from DS for many weeks at a time, and of course did their relationship no favours. I know she has issues, but I'm not convinced she should be written off just yet.

Mainly, I hope people will be able to offer DS some insight, hope or guidance.

Also, I am travelling down to see my daughter tomorrow and to also talk about what is going on. Although she has said that she hasn't had sex with anyone else but admits to sharing a bed with two other men I am thinking of the correct questions to ask her.

Was there kissing?
Was there cuddling ect?

Any other thoughts on the questions I can ask?

LCMKI, living together is very different from being married. Marriage is a committment and living together is not. Living together is much like renting a house; it is a month to month agreement where either partner can leave at any time. They are not obliged to stay and as such, are free to seek other rentals.

It is the same with living together. There is no committment so the partners can decide at any time to end the arrangement and move on. It sounds like that is what she has done, which is within her right since she is not married.

So LCMKI I assume you work in the mining industry fly-in/fly-out? That type of lifestyle is not conductive to a stable marriage and home life. Was this your job when previous relationships ended due to infidelity?

Most probably the only path to the truth will involve a polygraph. Waywards LIE.

""she admitted to sharing a bed with the OM, "but nothing happened", and that she had also shared a bed with another man, an old school friend.""

This is the standard way WW's let their BH know indirectly that they are having SF with the OM. In this case OM1 and OM2.

"P has declared it will take a year of DS "romancing" her for her to consider coming back, but that she does not plan to stay celibate during that time"

This is the standard way WW's hold off their BH so they can buy time to continue to have SF with these OM.

Classic fence siting. The WWstrings along the BH so they can cake eat.

Yes in the mining industry. However the town I live in the company provides housing which we have been living in for 2 years. I've had my job for the same amount of time. So no to fly in fly out.

So your wife lives with you there or is it a mine camp?