again. . .


Do you know why she married you?

Larry

Hey Larry, I guess I didn't answer the question that you were looking for. Yes I think I am and have been told that I'm a good catch.

I married my wife because of many reason's but mostly because she is a beautiful person on the inside and out and till her A she has been a very trustworthy and honest person. We are also very compatible, we get along great and love to do things together. I'm very attracted to her and love her with all my heart.

She married me I thought for the same reasons, but she tells me now that she is almost sure that there has never been any sexual attraction to me for her. That she married me and being intimate was part of her duty as a wife. She has said that she finds me attractive, but does not desire me sexually. Is that possible? I still think personally that she has rewrote the past with this regard and is now convinced it was never there. But can I be sure that is what is going on, no so that is why I posed the original question.

Can Sexual Desire be created if it was never there?

Thank you all for your help and if anyone out there has anymore insight or advice on how to move past this point please post. V/R Livinitaly

"She married me I thought for the same reasons, but she tells me now that she is almost sure that there has never been any sexual attraction to me for her."

Justifying her affair by re writing history.

This cracked me up, LvninItaly! I'm a Leo too! We aren't conceited, we're just convinced, right?

Back to seriousness...Your wife is rewriting history from the sounds of it...Have you guys read any of Dr. Harley's books? I know you've talked with Steve and that's great, but imo, there is no replacement for doing the actual reading and APPLYING. Have you considered doing the MB Online Program or the Home Study Course? The thing is this programs works, but you MUST work it for it to do so...

How many hours per week are you spending together? I know I am sounding like a broken record, but during those hours you must be meeting the four most intimate emotional needs, which are:

Intimate Conversation
Affection
Recreational Companionship
Sexual Fulfillment

YES, again sexual desire CAN be created, and doing the above is how...

Has your wife ever read or posted here?

Mrs. W

I feel that she is or has rewritten our history like you say. Yes we have read the books, I will say that after a while they start to over lap but the information is good. I think I may have tried to get her to read them too soon. I'm not sure she got everything out of them due to the fog.

The problem my wife has is she just wants the feelings to come and then act on them. But from what Steve said and what I have read on the forums from people like yourself is the action must come first. So how do you get a strong woman that can be stubborn sometimes to go the opposite of what she feels should happen. I'm trying to figure out a way to explain or sell the actions before feelings to her.

Currently we are spending as much time together as we can. When we are not at work we are home with each other, and when at home we are doing things and talking to each other. I don't know if we are at or above the 15 hour mark. I would say we have to be there.

Currently the affection is driven by me and there is no SF, the rest we do. We try to not talk about relationship stuff everyday but we do talk about it. I Just want to find a way to get us moving forward. Thanks for your help, Leo's are he best.

It's tough for you to "get her" to do anything - that is teaching her and will come across as disrespectful and a love buster to her...

Will she come here and talk to us? If we love bust her that is OKAY - and can even act as a way of bonding the two of you - puts you on the same side against us "meanies" - let's us be the heavies for you...

You can tell her that I am a FWW that felt the same way - that I would never be attracted to my husband again - not exactly the same as what she is saying about "never being attracted", but close - tell her I'd be glad to "talk" with her here - If she is telling the truth about wanting to stay married and wanting to desire you, then I would think she would be willing to try whatever means necessary...What do you think?

Mrs. W

Well I kept hoping that our weight machine, stairmaster and treadmill would make me look fabulous if I just glanced their way a few times a week - Unfortunately, they would not comply with my wishes and instead required me to take action - DANG THEM!

Mrs. W

GOOD ANSWER !

She has looked around the forums before, but has never posted. I would love for her to get on here and talk to people that have been in her shoes. I think if she could get in contact with you and people that know where she is at it would help us tremendously. From everything she has told me and our families she wants to stay and have a great marriage with me filled with desire. So I think she would be willing to get on here and talk to people, she maybe a bit apprehensive since she was the WW.

I will recommend to her to look around and talk to people that have been where she has and can help her and us forward. Hopefully you will be hearing from her soon. Thank you for your help.

Larry why did you ask questions if you don't have any insight into what I originally asked. I have answered your question and yet you don't respond. I hope that you are not just trolling to get people riled up, this would not be the place to bring people down. V/R Lvninitaly

I can answer that. I did not see your reply to me. Sorry. As you can see if you review my posting history, I do make specific "Help" posts and sometimes get in trouble for them because I can be more blunt than I should be or because I tell people something they don't want to hear. I try though.

And you did provide an answer I could understand that probably has an impact on her situation. Meantime, you have received some excellent advice from others. I do note that my asking about "Good catch" must have hit some sort of emotional point with you.

Initial infatuation is not always the reason why a given woman will set her sights on a man and want to marry him. I have spoken with enough women in the past to believe I am correct when I state that some women marry because they see the guy as being a "Good Catch," without the depth of gaga over him. They look good together, parents like him (or not), her girlfriends are jealous, etc.

So they convince themselves that this is the guy. And he may be as discovered after the fact . . . or not as the case may be.

Just a side note: Infatuations do not last. Trust me on this. While infatuations are the precursor to both affairs and marriage, the particular brain chemicals that induce infatuation burn out in time. It might be useful for you to study infatuation on the web. The short version is that an infatuation can be induced by something that is as simple as the way someone smells, or exchange of confidences like the life histories of someone, etc., and other influences.

Many, if not most, women confuse infatuation as true love. This is because infatuation "Just happens," for the most part. And the feelings of infatuation literally OVERWHELM people. Look it up.

But it isn't true love. Virtually all infatuations are based on someone who is infatuated PROJECTING onto the target person what the infatuated person believes the target person is rather than what that person really is. Thus you wake up one morning and go HUH!

There are certain serial predators (both men and women) who are skilled in all of the ways to get someone to become infatuated with them. They tell their target what the target wants to hear. And that too leads to infatuation.

True love is induced by oxytocin. Harley's methods are calculated to induce that brain chemical and to a certain extent, the infatuation chemical called phenylethylamine (PEA), to give you the web search words.

As has been pointed out, people who have been in an affair, especially when infatuation is included, often write their personal history as a different version from what really happened.

Based on the information you have provided, it is my opinion that your wife married you as a "Good Catch," with no infatuation, or a low level one that she soon got over. I do believe that she probably has true love for you but not one she recognizes as true love because she thinks of true love as infatuation.

That is my theory and if you or anyone else wants to challenge it, be my guest.

Now the next step is to determine what to do about it.

Much I will leave somewhat to both your own imagination and the expressed opinions that others may have, BUT I will get into some things that could help, again in my opinion, IF you buy into my theory.

Larry

Wow Larry, thank you for your post. What you said while it being your theory must be based in a lot of experience. From the talks that we have had, my wife has pretty much said that there was no infatuation. Steve said something very similar to you in this regard. She could have married me because I was a good catch. We were very good friends before we got together.

So the question is can you get to a point of sexual desire, without infatuation?

We both want her to have the desire to be with me. I mean it only makes sense for that to be part of our marriage.

I feel that it is possible for her to feel this way for me, it just makes sense that it could happen. She loves me and I love her. We get along great and love to spend time with each other. All that is missing is affection(we do have some affection) and sex.

We are both military and I think the time apart has done it's work to our marriage. Thanks again Larry. V/R Lvninitaly

Ummm, ok.

Leave us wait just a bit for others to have their say and then I will post some more. I won't forget you. Do your homework by looking up what I have said - especially Robert Friar who is a biochemist and teacher.

Read what Harley has to say under basic concepts - read all of them.

The concept I will leave you with at this point, is "Cognitive dissonance." That is the key element, in my opinion. The short version of that is "You are what you think," and "You are what you eat."

What I have had to say, so far, rings a bell. Good. Now lets see what others have to say before I go to the next level.

Larry

First, let me say that you are getting great comments. I agree with posters like Larry above, MrsW, as well as Steve Harley. I would like to add to the conversation, however. It may be useful; maybe not.

Many people would say that she is rewriting history. Although that cannot be ruled out, it is not always the case. But let's explore this as if it were fact. Even Steve thought that this is a possibility.

Why could she not have SF on her wedding night? That might indicate some sort of sexual dysfunction. Was she orgasmic? Was sex painful in any way? Has she had any physical trauma (rape or other sexual abuse) in her past? Another possibility was whether she was already wayward around that time. For instance, if she were still seeing someone else, perhaps she could have believed she would be cheating on him with you. Anyhow, just food for thought.

This subject is of interest to me, since my W and I had a 20 year issue like this. The one big difference, however, is that your W was the one who went wayward. In my sitch, it was me who was wayward. For my W, out of the 10 EN's, SF was a very distant #10 in priority. What do you think SF is in your W's EN list?

This post is also curious. Are you not having SF currently? Is it an important EN for you? If it is, then why does she not want to fill it for you? Does she understand the whole EN concept of MB? Are you filling her bank?

In the end, as in my sitch, the problem morphs into a life of its own. In the end, it has to come from within herself. Subconsciously she could be holding back. Why? Maybe she is scared that when the going gets tough, you will drift apart again. Or perhaps she still is not defogged totally. Does she view her relationship with OM as a beautiful one, or does she abhor what they had together?

I asked a lot of questions, not so that you answer them in a post. You can bring up whatever part (if any) you might like to explore. I think you can get to where you want to go, it is just finding the best (and quickest) route.

I don�t have any great pearls of wisdom or insight into the human psyche but just thought I�d share my experience with you.

I meet my H at 19 and we married at when I was 24. At 19 I had had several short and medium term relationships mostly with men who did not treat me all that well.

When I met my H he was quite different to anyone I had dated before. I liked him a lot when we first met we got on very well and he became my best friend for 18 years. I definitely classed him as a good catch. But I was not sexually attracted to him. He was an attractive man, I thought so and I know other women thought so, but there wasn�t that desire there for me.

He made me feel loved and adored and when we married after five years together I knew that my desire for him in no way matched his desire for me. I had no desire to have sex (not sure if I�m allowed to use that word here � sorry if I offend) on our honeymoon.

Over the years my desire for him increased slightly at times but never matched what I had experienced before and new was possible.

It wasn�t until a little over a year ago when my H had an A and I thought I was going to lose him that that desire seemed to surface. I now find that I am extremely sexually attracted to him, even when other areas of our relationship are not good SF is the one EN that we both meet for each other.

I�m not too good on the self analysis but I think that the desire was or could have been there but it was my own issues relating to my past and my resentment in the present that stifled my feelings.

This is in no way a good story and is in no way similar to yours. My H�s A almost destroyed me at one point but I can absolutely say that real sexual desire can happen even after 18 years.

Maybe if you W realised what she was going to lose she might be prepared to put in more effort.

LH2

Great telling of a story.


And nicely said. I can see the issues in your mind. And your reaction is, I hate to say this, predictable. All of a sudden, you were about to lose something that you needed. And from that you found attraction.


Pretty standard stuff. There is a guy by the name of David DeAngelo who actually teaches guys how to attract women by being a challenge or whatever, like not treating you well. I have read some of his stuff, and he is deadly.

See, a couple of years ago I used to get - about once a month - this picture of two control panels. The top one had a light and an on/off toggle switch. The label said "MAN."

The control panel at the bottom was covered with dials, switches, meters, buttons, etc. It was labeled "WOMEN." While it was meant to be funny, it was also meant to note the very real differences between men and women.

One woman once lamented to me, "Why can't guys who fall in love with me act like they don't care. It is such a turnoff when men are too easy." I have never forgotten that conversation. One of the staples of many a woman's fantasy is the literary category of "Bodice Rippers." Those are written with a basic plot device that entails a woman working really hard to land this prime male fish.

So why has nature provided such an easy way for women to act against their own best interest? I haven't a clue. And I welcome any speculation that might shed light on the subject.

After all, a "Good Catch," who is a good earner, they look good together, loves kids and helps with the house, what more could a woman want? Why aren't more women just nuts over such guys instead of the low life who treats them badly?

And now I go back in wait mode to see what others have to say.

Thank you for your story. You did well in the entire piece, I just selected a couple of items for emphasis.

Larry

Larry, have you read http://www.laddertheory.com/ ?

This "funny theory" might seem blunt or rude but it stresses out the same thing - women are attracted to men who do not show too much interest in them.

Had heard of it through an article I read. Reviewed it tonight. Explains the immature aspect of attraction for both sexes. If totally true, doesn't explain a lot of stuff that happens.

Yea, and even Harley dwells on the emotional need women have for "Safety," in the form of financial support.

Note key word: confidence.

Think about it.

Oh and yes, you can switch ladders. It used to be a game with me before I got married the first time. (Yea, I know) The Karma bus came by and picked me up and then had a wreck with me in it. Eventually, the Karma bus gets even with all players. After that one, I decided that I seriously needed to extend my internal honor, duty, country, integrity, thing to include women I wanted to, uh, what it said in the ladder deal.

Turns out that there are a lot of women out there who like that honor, integrity thing in a man. Turns out they are better in many ways too.

Oh, and for whatever it is worth, I have had the privilege lately of telling two different women to stop falling in love on the back of a Harley. Musings from Larry

Larry

Let me leave a quick one for Italy. . .

Confidence. Think about it.

Changing from no desire to hot to trot. That takes a perception change by female. It CAN be done with a makeover by you. Easy but takes some training.

Excitement: Women expect it from men they find interesting in "That" way.

Booring: The kiss of death. Fagetaboutit.

Challenge: Always a good thing.

And I could give you a whole bunch of stuff at once, which would mean you get about half of it at best. Trust me, feeding it to you one bit at a time and getting you to think about it is better for you.

Larry

Have you ever asked her what she finds exciting "That way?" Like nearly all women, she won't give you a straight answer or even the right answer, but the answer she gives you may be revealing.

It is like solving the De Vinci code.

Larry