Mindshare,

No, I don't think you're wrong...I am willing to stick it out. I didn't have this in mind when I said "for better or for WORSE" but it's the hand I was dealt.

I don't want this to be my marriage...all this anger and resentment I feel toward BaT.

Would a "timeline" make that go away? Not hardly...he's not going to remember 1/10th of what happened with POSOW (he couldn't tell you what we had for dinner last nite) AND even if he sat down today and wrote it all out I WOULD ALWAYS KNOW HE FELT FORCED TO DO IT because SH told him to...not because BaT wanted to help me through this.

The "timeline" would have been more a "show of good faith" than anything else. I think I know 99% of what happened and when...It just became this huge deal because of BaT's refusal to do it all the way along...and then the wondering "WHY???" he won't do it...

I am just rambling now...because at the end of the day, this is all about my children.

There is not a doubt in my mind what BaT would do if I kicked him out today...and none of it involves being a good dad...

right now, BaT is doing ALOT...I know its not MB stuff necessarily, but like I said in my earlier post...he is HERE...changing diapers, rocking babies, kissing scraped knees...our babies need him right now, because to say that HBH is not on her "a-game" is the understatement of the year...

Allow yourself to receive God's healing grace.....

This WILL take time!

hbh,

You won't recover this M without the timeline. Every day that you both allow to go by without taking care of this, your resentment builds. Eventually you will get to the point of no return.

BaT isn't thinking about this long-term...his refusal is going to bite him in the *ss big time because you will eventually lose ALL of your love and respect for him and there will be no going back. I am not trying to scare you but I DO want you to believe me.

Have you promised BaT that you will not have an AO while doing this exercise? Some people recommend that you give him a list of questions to get this discussion going. You also can put a time limit on each "session" to help quell BaT's anxiety.

IMHO you need to make this a boundary, ie, "I will not stay in a M where I do not know the TRUTH about what has happened in it". Then ask BaT what needs to happen for him to do this. Ask him what he needs from you in order to feel safe enough to do this for you.

Remind him that he is doing this for your children also, because recovery will never happen without it.

I do believe you, I'm just not sure what to do at this point


AO have obviously been a problem in the past...which is one reason why SH told him to write it all down (rather than tell me verbally, so I won't have the chance to interrupt). I just hate to ask BaT anything about it, because its like I'm begging for crumbs


Ok, so I make this a "boundary" for me, which admittedly I have not done in the past, and then when BaT refuses to do it...then what? Which, by the way, the "refusal" is never with a "HBH, I will never do a timeline" its with a "HBH, i know i have to do that...i just need some time to make sure I don't miss any details" or "HBH i am going to work on that timeline, its just so hurtful to think about" etc. Point being, I would have to make a "deadline" otherwise, it will just drag on like it has done since SH told him to do it.

What is the price a WS pays for breaking a BS' "boundary"??? I have a feeling its going to be a Plan-B sort of answer...

HBH,

You said
But what he is not doing is what is needed to heal this marriage. I may be wrong but I sense a huge power struggle going on with you and BAT. He will NOT, as a point of pride, admit to anyone that he needs help or guidance. Yet clearly the data indicates he does. You will not admit that perhaps before all of this started YOU ran the show and he was just one of the clowns in the show.

You neither will admit that you have pushed the other into a corner. Someone mentioned that if things don�t change eventually you will lose your love for him and leave him. You won�t admit this and right now he sees that you will not throw him out because he is being good to the �babies�. But he is not being good to you. You need to understand that he needs to deal with SH not for you, but for himself. He needs to understand that he needs to deal with SH not for you but for himself. And if he cannot recognize that he needs guidance and help, then I will tell you that you either will have a miserable marriage OR he will cheat again.

You guys have issues. You must face yours and he must face his. I don�t think he sees it this way. He needs to.

Please think about it.

God Bless,

JL

So are you saying he isn't out-right refusing to do this, he just hasn't done it YET? That is different than a flat-out refusal. Is he saying he will do it but isn't ready to do it now?

If that is the case then the best bet is for us to work with you on learning how to make him feel safe to do this.

Can you let us know which it is?

Sure. I asked for the details IMMEDIATELY. BaT and I woke up every morning, drove to work together, worked in the same office, two doors apart, drove home together every evening, ate dinner with our kids every nite. I had a VERY hard time understanding how the PA even had TIME TO OCCUR. At that time, he flat out refused to give me details. I caught him in one lie right after the other. POSOW was actively trying to split us up for the 1st six weeks after D-day and I found out ALOT of info from her. BaT rarely admitted to anything until POSOW told me first.

Then we moved and started MC in new city. Timeline/details/whatever was the BIG ISSUE for me, so immediately MC said for BaT to do it. BaT told MC he would do it, but at home with me, he flat out refused. "I don't see the point" "It's irrelevant at this point" "you'll just use it against me later" ETC ETC ETC

SH didn't tell BaT to do the timeline until over 5 months after D-Day. Since SH has told him to do it, BaT has not said the words "I am not going to do it". I just feel like his actions show me what he intends on doing, or not doing. He basically shut down from MB after SH gave him that assignment. As far as I know, he doesnt even get on to MB website anymore (he quit posting early on, but was still reading threads until assignment). We don't do online program anymore. Basically nothing MB related since 2-24.

Ok, I see...then IMHO your boundary should be something like::

"I refuse to stay in a M where my H refuses to help me recover from his A." He isn't even doing the MB stuff anympore???

If you want to give him a little more time to grow a set of b*lls and do what SH and everyotherexpert is telling him to do, then in the meantime MY personal boundary would be "I refuse to interact with someone who has inflicted an enormous amount of pain on me AND THEN wants to move on like nothing has happened." I know that isn't very MB-like but a person can only take so much. He is DRAINING your LB by refusing to do this. Does ne not understand this? Have you expressed this to him?

hbh...your H is not the "leader" of this recovery. YOU have the option to say to him

"BaT...I cannot go on like this anymore. I am dying a death of a thousand cuts with every day that passes and you refuse to do what SH has suggested....I KNOW I will not recover without this. There is no point in keeping me in this limbo any longer. I need a date by which you solemnly promise me we will have completed this assignment. What can I do to help you complete this assignment so that we can continue moving forward in our recovery?"

I think you are right...I have thought that alot of BaTs actions were to "put me in my place". I have read that A isn't about the BS...but we have a very different situation as far as "balance of power" is concerned and I think there is more to it. Then again, I'm the BS, so I'm not objective.

Agreed. I have said before, BaT didn't like what he heard from me, so he got on the forum. BaT didn't like what he heard on the forum, so he stopped posting. BaT didn't like what he heard from SH, so no more counseling.

I do admit that...no question about it.

And again, this is why I am stuck, unless I am going to Plan-D, which HE KNOWS i will not...

But isn't this the real issue...I don't "refuse" and he knows it...

What is the worst thing that could happen in your eyes, HBH, if you were to Plan B your husband?

((((HBH))))),

Glad to see you are back ASKING for help and guidance. I gather it is not the easiest thing for you to do. In the past you have always been self-suffecient and a go-getter, so to me you ASKING is a huge task for you. YOu are to be commended on that, because really the ONLY way to learn is to ask.....especially the difficult questions....

I wanted to comment a few things you shared....

You weren't "dealt" this hand. Cancer is something life deals you. Job loss is something that life deals to you. Adultery is something your spouse did willingly. Adultery is intential harm to the marriage by the offending spouse. It wasn't something that just "happened".

Yes, you must deal with the aftermath and affects it caused but it was a deliberate attack on you. BaT vowed to honor you and stay faithful. HE and he alone broke that....


You have stated this many times, but the anger and resentment at THIS point are NORMAL emotions to feel after having been betrayed.......when BaT does the work to make amends for his actions your feelings of anger and resentment will subside. If he doesn't do the work (or REFUSES to do it), those feelings WILL remain there....to PROTECT you from further harm....)


Nope it won't make it all go away, but it is an IMPORTANT step in the process. One that CANNOT be ignored......It would be akin to an alcoholic going to AA and not doing Step 8...(I don't know what step 8 is, I am just using it for my analogy....)


It really doesn't matter WHY he does HbH, it only matters that he does at this point. Look, you kids are real old, but give me some leeway here.....If you tell your son to pick up his toys, does it matter to you if he WANTS to do it to make mom happy or does it really just matter if he does it???.....Everybody has things in life they HAVE to do whether they like it or not....clean the dinner dishes, go to work, brush their teeth, whatever.....BUT we do these things because we HAVE to otherwise, the dishes will pile up till there aren't any more clean ones to eat off of, people will go hungry and lose their homes, their teeth will rot and then fall out....See where I am going with this????....IF BaT doesn't do the things required of him in Recovery, things required by Steve, then the marriage will NOT heal.

I realize you would RATHER him do this WILLINGLY (wouldn't we all???..... ), but MOST waywards aren't like this, not at first and not with EVERYTHING. BaT has done some things without even batting an eye, so keep that in mind when you feel a bit of anger or resentment coming on. This is a perfect example of the "feelings follow actions" mantra talked about on here....


This is very TELLING Hbh......something to think on.....I don't think you need or should "kick" him out yet, but it may very well come down to this......it depends really on YOU and what your boundary is and how well you plan on defending it....


Uhmmmm...this IS MB stuff. Its under Domestic Support and Family Commitment......Not the most ROMANTIC part of MB, but still a part of it none-the-less........



YOu are being much too HARD....on YOURSELF!!!!....You have been through a major TRAUMA....Let BaT pick up some of the slack (and responsiblity) while you gather your bearings and HEAL. This is NOT a bad reflection on YOU. Not at all......because in all honesty, if you don't give yourself a bit of a break, you really just end up running yourself ragged and making yourself sick, which in the end, helps no one......

Even though BaT is stalling, I do think you two are doing better than when you first got here. This is not the easiest thing to do, but MB is the easiest way to get it done. Much better than sitting in some hack's office going round and round about the same thing.....

((((HbH)))))

You are going to do a lot of growing as an individual through this.....

not2fun

No HBH, you situation is not unique, it is not any different.......and BaT's affair was very much about HIM. What is it about BaT that he would ALLOW himself to wallow in the dredges of an affair? What is it about BaT that he would think it was ACCEPTABLE to boink another woman??....It really doesn't matter what you did or didn't do pre-A, what matters is BaT LEARNING where HIS defeciencies were....

not2fun

I don't know SMB, everything...BaT left two days after D-day and spent the nite in a hotel...the first thing my 2 y/o asked when he got home (the kids were gone when BaT left) was "where's Daddy?" I literally fell to the floor. I have read the Plan-B threads and all I can say is those BS's are stronger than I am.


I guess if I had to choose one thing that would be the worst it would be the babies asking for him. I get sick to my stomach just thinking about it.

{{{{{HBH}}}}}

I understand. I lived your worst fear. I looked into my children's eyes and told them their daddy was moving out because he was having an affair.

It was literally the very worst day of my life other than D-day.

BUT...

what if that is the very best way to save your children's family?

I am not saying you should Plan B right now.

I am saying that you should not rule out the possibility of it in the future.

Not,

First thanks for all of your encouragement

I just wanted to make sure that I cleared up what I meant earlier....not that BaT's PA was different...but JL had commented on the "balance of power" in our M and I do think that is different than most marriages.

HBH, you are getting so much good feedback. There's one thing that stands out to me about some of your posts such as the one above... To me this is NOT about the timeline per se as you have stated repeatedly.

Looking at the big picture ~ not doing the timeline is a wayward tendency (putting his own feelings/needs above what's best for the M) which IMVHO WILL reveal itself again later on, and most definitely will hinder the recovery proces, if you don't set up your own boundary re what you expect from him...

Then I would do it. But, for what is worth...I think if I did Plan-B, one of two things would happen:

1) BaT drinks himself into oblivion (remember, he has no bills, no job to get up and get dressed for, no responsibilities)
and just becomes a drunk and not a good father to our kids

or

2) BaT takes better care of himself than above so that he can be the "rockstar" and live the party life he is missing out on, gets a job so he can have party money, and not be a good father to our kids.

I just don't see the option of BaT saying "OMG, i am losing my family and i need to do something about it"