This is an amazing forum which I only discovered, unfortunately, only about 7 months after my H�s A started and 3 weeks before it ended. I wish it had been sooner.

I�ve spent many months reading the threads and articles here and also reading Dr Harleys books.

And with all this information I have I�m still making a real mess of things. After 8 months of trying to R we seem to be in a worse place now than we were only a couple of months after the A ended.

Initially when R first started H put a reasonable effort meeting some of my EN�s and to his credit he did not seem to go through the withdrawal that some WS�s do.

I have asked H to read SAA and HNHN several times, he always has and excuse to why couldn�t or didn�t want to. I�ve resorted to emailing him a few threads from this forum which he has read but he has said they are extreme in the way WS are dealt with. He has refused to consider MB counselling. I just want to put that out there because I know first comments will be to get counselling.

So we have come to a point where we both are miserable and feeling insecure in our M. Me because he had and A (he left me, wanted new life with OW after put me through months of hell fence sitting). Him because I have told him several times over the last 8 months that R is too hard and I wanted out.

I�m not following the MB methods of recovery � I know that. For me it�s been extremely hard to follow the MB principles with a partner who just doesn�t want to know about them.

So today he has given me an ultimatum of sorts. He has decided he can�t go on with the way we are anymore and the things I�m doing. This weekend he wants us to get together and make a plan to move forward whether it be that we stay together or we separate. Which ever the outcome, it is to be final and he wants us to make plans/rules that we must stick to. He has stated that his preference is that we stay together.

I need to get myself under control to be able to make this work. I need to get him to buy into the MB way of recovery. I need help with were to start.

If he left you once for OW he was deeply into this affair. Since he refuses MB coaching I suspect he still is - in his heart, even if he is not in direct contact.

He is not in a position to issue ultimatums. You should be the one setting the bar high to enable him to stay in the marriage.

Accept what he says and work on a "stay together" plan. Your "stay together" conditions MUST include MB coaching. If he refuses that, I cannot see why you would stay with him.

I'm sorry to hear of your situation.

This is very depressing. If you are right and after 8 months of NC he is still deeply into his affair in his heart, is recovery even possible?

LH, does he still see the OW? Does he work with her? See her at church?

Do you ever spend the night apart? Does he travel?

What are the "things" you are doing, specifically? What does he want you to do or not do?

No he doesn't see OW. She lives in a differnt town. I have access to everything and know all his movements. I am certain there has been NC.

what about travel? Do you ever spend the night apart? And did you see my last post?

I doubt my ability to be able to recover. I can't "get over it" the A. I have threatened to end the M more than once.

He does have to travel a little for work. This has been an issue for me.

When he returned to me he got a new job that didn't require travel. But 2 months ago his company started opening new branches and this has required him to travel.

The places he is traveling to are nowhere near OW's town. I have records and receipts from all his accomodation and meals and we are in communication alot when he is away.

He needs a change of heart which also means he needs to see that whatever he was looking for in his A was not in his best interest.

Have you tried sending him the statistics about marriages and affairs? The statistics about Harley and MB? Does he know any couples that you both admire and have gone through this?

I suspect that there are all kinds of feelings he is going thru and his affair is somehow lodged in his heart as a possible feeling he wants to explore. He might just feel like a failure also. The desire to run to what he might see as freedom as he entertains the idea he can put this all behind him could be holding him back or maybe he still thinks about OW. In a fantasy way of course but he doesn't see it.

He will have to want to work on the issues you two have now and its easier to run away. Affairs them selves are running away from issues that need to be addressed.

Remember you did not run away, he did and you what you are doing here, protecting yourself, is doing him a favor and he needs to pull it together.

Others here can help you as we get to understand you and your sitch

God bless

Do you bring up the affair alot, lh?

I doubt my ability to be able to recover. I can't "get over it" the A. I have threatened to end the M more than once. [/quote]

I am still not clear on what you are doing that is upsetting him. You say you threatened to end the marriage "more than once." This does not give me a clear picture of what is going on. Once or twice you threatened to end the marriage. What else is there? Can you be more specific?

I didn't at all for months, but I have a couple of times in the last two months.

It's not that I want to bring it up but when things aren't going well between H and I he pushes and pushes me until I think I'll just be damned honest with him and tell him why I'm still hurting.

Sounds like yur pulling out the big guns when you get upset.

We have been arguing all the time. I never let anything go anymore.

I'm not happy that he wouldn't close a bank account that he opened during the A when I asked him to. It took him two months to get round to it because "it wasn't important to him" (not a DJ but exactly what he said). I bought it up every week for weeks. It was upsetting for me that that fact that it was important to me wasn't enough of a reason for him to do something about it. He resents that he felt forced to do it.

I'm not happy that he allowed a friend of his, who was returning from working overseas, stay in our hime for an indefinite amout of time. I have many issues with this friend. H said that offering this friend somewhere to stay was what wanted to do and it was going to happen whether I was happy with it or not.

I'm not happy that while this friend is staying in my home H has to start traveling for work and me and my two daughters are left to deal with the friend.

I'm not happy that after agreeing that H traveling for work would be detrimental to R H agrees to travel. I have no say in the matter, if he does not travel for work it will stunt his career. I have discussed with him that I feel his work is more important than me or our M - to which he replied that the work situation was NOT going to change.

I'm not happy that when I try discussing anything I'm really not happy about one of his responses is always "Would you be happier without me". He's told me several times that if I can't be happy with him he will support me if I want to end the M.

So realy he is unhappy that I'm not happy. That's what's upsetting him.

I'm supposed to just love him worts and all, because as he has told me so many times "he is who he is". If I want something different or better well what can he do?

I'm sorry for venting, it may seem stupid to others but it's so frustrating.

Your right. I feel like I get backed into a corner.

It's either 'suck it up' or fight my way out.

ok, I see the issue now. Your husband is a freeloader and he triggers you with his thoughtless, independent behavior. Do of any of these descriptions ring a bell?

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carpet, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.

check this out: here

How long have you been married, LH? Any kids together? Is this your 1st marriage?

Oh dear, the renter description is rather fitting.

[quote]Renters believe Our relationship is temporary. You may be right for me today and wrong for me tomorrow.[/quote]

This one really struck a cord with me. Only a few weeks ago whan we were having a not so good momment he said to me "Sometimes I think you are the right person for me and sometimes I think your not". I thing that confirms it.