Down the middle by not being too desperate or too hostile. I am also trying not to upset myself to much either. I don't need to have a heart attack over this. ( I have never had one)I will check the place out as I have been there several times.

Gotcha! I agree that is a good idea! Please go watch the place, KB. Can you control your temper if you see the OM?

I don't know if I can. But here is another Idea. He may be on probation for the domestic asaults and violating the restaining order. POs dopn't like that much.

KB,

You DO have to find out what she's up to (seeing OM or not).
You DO have a right to know.
She is NOT going to tell you the truth if she's having an affair. No matter how "good a person" she was beforehand. Trust me. If I had a dime for every lie my WW told me, I'd make Warren Buffett look poor.
Very likely--please prepare yourself--she is still cheating.

If you can't handle the prospect of catching her "in the act" and seeing the OM, then HIRE A PI to do it for you. A PI can get the proof without you putting youself in a potentially explosive situation. Don't do something that is going to land you in a police situation.

Remember, she is going to use anything she can against you to defend, shield, and justify the affair. I would have a neutral 3rd-party (preferably a professional PI) do some serious snooping for you.

Maybe I should contact cheaters. This woman lives out in the country and anywhere I park I would be spotted.
You may be right about her still cheating but I feel in my gut something is still wrong. I it felt days before she came to me and confessed. Right now I can't do anything since I am work and it gives her a big advatange.

I have never been able to understand why some women gather around abusers like moths to the flame. Well, lemme correct that. I do understand a bit when a YOUNG girl does it, I haven't a clue why someone older would. It is the excitement, isn't it?

Will some of the women on here help you Blue since I can't, why your wife is with this guy, a known abuser? It might help you.

Larry

I have even discussed this with my w and she defemds him. It's like she got sucked into all the woman beater excuses. Oh ya he sits and listens to her and understands her. He is 9 years younger and she is no beauty queen. I tried to tell his reasoning is so much different than hers. And she says she felt like someone else was controling her and that she cried during the act. She felt so used but I know she saw him 3 times after that and she even gave him a cell phone. Why because her jailbird son wasn't using it. I am begining to hear the words run don't walk. I will let therapy go it course but I ever find out she is seeing him for any reason behind my back it will be over.

KB,

Please hire a PI! Believe me, I wish I had and I was warned by friends as well. It's worth the $$. You can't do anything effective until you know the truth and have the proof. BEEN THERE!

SD

If I only had the money for one. If only.

Larry,

I understand your confusion. I�ve been there as well. The question is sort of like asking �why does stupidity and evil exist?�

My (ex) WW affaired with a man who is/was/has/had:

A high-school dropout
A criminal/prison record incl. non-payment of support and tax evasion
17+ years older
Married, on his 3rd marriage
Cheated on ALL 3 of his marriages�multiple times each
3 kids from 3 different women
A financial & emotional abandoner to all 3 of his kids (father-in-name-only at best, NC with 2 of the 3)

She willingly and enthusiastically became the 4th wife and 7th mistress (that we know of) of a decidedly 10th-rate man who used(s) her for sex + money. It happens all the time. This all occurred with an intelligent, educated, savvy, grounded, family-oriented, �Christian� woman who abandoned her friends, family, values, and standards for a total loser who �paid attention� to her. She would have choked her own mother had she stood in the way of the affair--that's how emotionally-addicted she was. Off the deep end, "cukoo-for-cocoa-puffs" crazy...

Nothing surprises me anymore...

I guess it doesn't suprise me anymore either. I think I'd be better off single. My 1st wife cheated on me too. She wasn't all that bright though. I found out years later thru different people how many men she was with. Go I am so lucky I don't have some nasty bug. Sometimes I feel like I got something stamped on my head that only women can see. I am know women get cheated on to but I am very disappoint in people how make a vow and not live up to it. I thank each and every one of you that are giving me advice. I'll find my way somehow.

King,

I know this sucks.

Please somehow find out the truth.

Even if it is bad, you are better off knowing in the long run.

I found out the "trickle-truth" hard way gradually over time...each new revelation was a new D-day that set me back personally months in my mental recovery.

Trust me--whatever it is--you are better served by knowing as much as possible up front right away, whether or not you want to to try to save this marriage.

I'm sorry...

Wow. That's almost as bad as PSUBIKER's exWW who left him for an older, unemployed, toothless, no-prospects loser also with a criminal record.....

....who's also her second cousin. Search for PSUBIKER's story on this board sometime, kb. I guarantee it'll make your jaw drop.

As to why Waywards cheat on and leave perfectly good spouses for losers (called "affairing down"), it has been debated many times before on this forum, to no definitive conclusion. It's just another one of those mysteries of life...

Mac,

I know PSUBIKER's story well...and he knows mine.

We have spoken on the phone several times� Thanks


It�s called �emotional addiction�. It�s inherently illogical, irrational, and self-defeating. It springs from desperation, insecurity, and fantasy. Here�s why:

Surely the craziest and most destructive form of infidelity is the temporary insanity of falling in love. You do this, not when you meet somebody wonderful (wonderful people don't screw around with married people) but when you are going through a crisis in your own life, can't continue living your life, and aren't quite ready for suicide yet. An affair with someone grossly inappropriate�someone decades younger or older, someone dependent or dominating, someone with problems even bigger than your own�is so crazily stimulating that it's like a drug that can lift you out of your depression and enable you to feel things again. Of course, between moments of ecstasy, you are more depressed, increasingly alone and alienated in your life, and increasingly hooked on the affair partner. Ideal romance partners are damsels or "dumsels" in distress, people without a life but with a lot of problems, people with bad reality testing and little concern with understanding reality better.

Romantic affairs lead to a great many divorces, suicides, homicides, heart attacks, and strokes, but not to very many successful remarriages. No matter how many sacrifices you make to keep the love alive, no matter how many sacrifices your family and children make for this crazy relationship, it will gradually burn itself out when there is nothing more to sacrifice to it. Then you must face not only the wreckage of several lives, but the original depression from which the affair was an insane flight into escape.


Dr. Frank Pittman

That's what I get for not reading the last whole thread about this. That sounds scary, because it sounds like anyone could get into such an affair during a low point in their life, if they don't have good boundaries. It does explain such things, as much as such things can be explained-I suppose if someone's going to cheat on their got-it-together spouse, it makes a twisted kind of sense that they'll pick someone to cheat with who's the exact opposite.

Thank you for this, SDCW_man. I had not read Dr. Pittman before, and this was a truly enlightenling article.

For anyone else interested, the full article can be found here:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200910/beyond-betrayal-life-after-infidelity

(Sorry about the t/j)

I have managed to check out my wifes where abouts and they all checked out. I had to be sneaky to get the details from one her friends. As it turns out she did stay at her friends who has horses and she was out with them allot. She is having some other health and mental problems and wanted to get away from all the stress and to think. We are doing better and talking to each other about the whole thing. She has got some anti depression meds and will continue seeing the therapist.
One problem she has is the friend of guy she was seeing is calling her and harrassing her. I have a friend who knows this guy well and he will intercede so I don't have too. Perhaps a visit from the cops will settle him down.
Right now she is an emotional wreck and wants to make things work with me. She admits that other guy is a loser but still wants to talk to him to get some closure. I don't think it's a good idea but her therapist seems to think so. So what say you?

Closure? Not a possibility. Closure usually goes like this:
WW: So I guess we have to stop talking to each other.
OM: Yeah, I'll miss you.
WW: I'll miss you too.
OM: Why don't we have one more fling.
WW: Okay, but then we will have to call it quits.
.....
WW: How about we close this tomorrow.
OM: Okay I'll call you tomorrow, at least we can still be friends.

It never works

It is a horrible idea. We have affairs resumed all the time here by having "closure sex." [YES, THEY ALWAYS HAVE SEX AT THESE "CLOSURE" MEETINGS!] See, when you CLOSE SOMETHING, you CLOSE IT, you don't open it. Should an alcoholic have "closure" drinks in order to sober up? Should he go to the bar and get some "closure?"

NO, because that is not �closure� that is what we call BULLSH** in Texas. It is doublespeak. In order to CLOSE, you actually CLOSE, not open.

Any "counselor" who tells your wife to have �closure� sex is a fool and an impediment to your marriage. Please understand that is one of the many reasons that marriage counselors have such a dismal failure rate. They don�t have the slightest idea how to save marriages, much less understand the dynamics of adultery. Any �counselor� who would tell your wife to do this is the enemy of your marriage.

Now, if you want to know the advice of a QUALIFIED, EXPERIENCED PSYCHOLOGIST, Dr Harley, clinical psychologist with 35+ years of experiences and founder of Marriage Builders, here it is:

here



[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

"closure" sex TRIGGERS the addiction, rather than CLOSES. Any counselor who would tell a client to go meet a lover to get "closure" does not understand the addictive nature of affairs.