Ouch, that is very, very wise. Wat, you are talking as though you amicably agreed to separate because you just "weren't getting along". You separated because your wife had an A, and quite a long A.

I was the one who had the A in our marriage, 7 years ago, and we are now fully recovered. After d-day I was resentful, in horrible withdrawal from the OM, cold and unpleasant to my H. If my H had waited for me to be "in the marriage" before he started his recovery processes, it would have never happened. He fought for me, he fought for our marriage.

What I am saying is that sometimes you just have to take control. Your wife had one A, what will ever stop her having another, even if you date and wait.

You don't have to earn your way back to a M you're already in. You will be back voluntarily when you decide to. What are you waiting for, an epiphany? There is no magic bullet that will suddenly cause you to be enthusiastic about recovering your M. Just DO it. If you have to fake it til you make it, then do it.

And don't dismiss the hard work of nurturing and maintaining your M by calling it a 'bunch of rules.' I don't want to be mean, watta, but it sure sounds like you want all the rewards of a healthy M with no effort or commitment. Ain't gonna happen.

You are absolutely correct 2, in the beginning my wife blamed me substantially for the affair. I was too busy with business, to controlling, not a personality match with her, etc. She has since come around to acknowledging and taking the blame, she has also said she doesnt feel worthy of my love and marriage. There are also issues with embarassment in the community for both of us. I still would like to see more committment from her and more change before I can fully feel comfortable giving my feelings and home to her again. I know this sounds odd to a lot of folks on here, but my wife is a very different personality and I want to be sure I know where her head is at. I just also am not the type to force rules on another person, I think we should police ourselves. I am not comfortable telling someone their boundaries, adults should be able to do that on their own. I may lose my marriage, by now following the MB program to a T, but we are all different and have different comfort levels.

Please remember you are only reading a brief post. In no way does this reflect my committment or effort. I have lived this nightmare since last aug/sep and I have held on to hope when it seemed all was lost. I have had my WW own family tell me I was a fool for stickig by her. I definantly want a healthy marriage, I just am worn down and emotionally drained and I want to see her impose self control and her own rules and values. I dont want to do it for her and then be responsible for policing it. That may be hard to understand, but that is my comfort level, I want her in because she wants in, not because she is tied to a set of rules or a program. I have learned a lot on here, and will use some of these principles for life, whatever that life maybe. I appreciate everyones response.

Wat, you are not different. The only difference between my marriage and yours is that I have saved my marriage using these concepts, you have not. My best thinking ruined my marriage, just as your best thinking is wrecking yours. We knew how to wreck a marriage, didn�t� we? What MB offers is a way to SAVE IT. Most of us who used the concepts have saved our marriages, that is how we differ from you. But if you know a better way, I say more power to you and wish you the best!

Melody, in no way am I saying I know a better way. I am not even sure my WW is far enough out of the fog yet for anything to work. All I am saying about being different is that I am not all the way comfortable with putting an adult on restriction, I know it has worked for many, many, people, but I am still on an emotional roller coaster and I dont want to be her parent. I want her to step up and be an adult as I am. I dont need rules to tell me not to cheat, not to talk to certain people etc. I am troubled that she may. I am not certain that a person that needs that much control is for me. I think MB is great, I thinks its success is unprecedented, and I am not questioning it in any way.

[quote=wattaNmare Please remember you are only reading a brief post. In no way does this reflect my committment or effort. I have lived this nightmare since last aug/sep and I have held on to hope when it seemed all was lost. I have had my WW own family tell me I was a fool for stickig by her. I definantly want a healthy marriage, I just am worn down and emotionally drained and I want to see her impose self control and her own rules and values. I dont want to do it for her and then be responsible for policing it. That may be hard to understand, but that is my comfort level, I want her in because she wants in, not because she is tied to a set of rules or a program. I have learned a lot on here, and will use some of these principles for life, whatever that life maybe. I appreciate everyones response. [/quote]

What your WW's family said is coming from a place of ignorance, and I don't mean to insult them so please don't take it that way. Most people are ignorant about the cause, effect & healing of an A. Most people would say "if my spouse went out on me I'd kick their a** to the curb!" Heck, even I said that pre-A! Even my FWH said that pre-A! There's no light bulb over the head of the uninitiated. They're speaking from the darkness of ignorance. Lucky for them, and I hope they never have to have their consciousness raised. Truly.

Of course you want your WW to be completely with the program and policing herself. That's one goal for a healthy M - for both partners to have boundaries and protect them. Give your WW the chance to learn what she needs to learn in order to help build your healthy M. That takes time.

R is not for wussies, watta. You're emotionally exhausted right now, and you have every right to be. You're looking up at the hill you still have to climb and the very notion has you whipped. I know that, because I've done that hill. It sucks, big time. But it was, and is, worth it.

Is there anything you can do, today, that is fun and good for you? Is there any treat that you can give to yourself - maybe a favorite meal, or a place to go that is good for you? It sounds like you need to pamper yourself a little bit right now. Give yourself a mental break for a little bit. Bowling, maybe? Sounds inane, I know but I think a little activity and a mental break from everything would be good medicine for you right now. I went to the library and looked at cookbooks, copying recipes that I've always wanted to try. (Which gave me a project for the next mental break-time: buying the stuff and making the meal.) It was a relief to just get away from the whole mental drama for a little bit.

Watta,

You are misunderstanding something very very fundamental here. You said

The boundaries everyone is talking about are YOURS not hers. You cannot set her boundaries, but she must set boundaries for herself and explain them to you as well as her plans to protect them.

The boudnaries everyone are telling you to protect are YOUR OWN. You need them, you need to explain them to her and then you need to protect them.

Please go back and reread what everyone is telling you for you are clearly not picking up what they are saying. As for you and yours being unique. Not a chance. Sorry to burst your bubble, but unless she has mental issues, the issues you are dealing with are very very normal. So knock off the excuses and get with the program.

God Bless,

JL

No, WAT, you are not getting this at all. No one has told you any such thing. If you tell someone what your BOUNDARIES ARE, you are not "putting them on restriction" you are simply telling what your boundaries are. For example, if my H beats me up am I "putting him on restriction" if i tell him to stop busting my chops? Of course not. I am simply telling him that this is my boundary. If you can respect this boundary you can come back in.

It is the same with your abusive wife. What you are saying is that here is what I need to be able to consider reconciling with you. She takes it or leaves it. That is not �putting an adult on restriction� to place sane and rational boundaries. See the difference?

These are not arbitrary rules designed to punish someone, they are specific tactics that are needed to recover a marriage. If I tell my H that I need him to be transparent in order to feel safe, I am not being hims big momma, I am telling him the truth of what it will take to recover a marriage.

You all raise very valid points. I think bliss is right, I probably need a little mental holiday just for myself. It is so tough to go thru the A, the job doesnt stop, the kids dont stop and life just isnt set up for this sort of betrayal. I just received my book yesterday, going to start reading tonite, I think I am misunderstanding a bit. I just feel like it is always me with the proposals, the ideas etc. I just wish the WW would be the one to take on more of the burden of fixing this mess.

Thanks everyone!

You'll have to start with the heavy lifting. I'm sorry - that's just how it is. I'm trusting your WW will follow soon.

Watta, here is one of my favorite posts for you:

*********

A boundary is not defined as "something I don't like."

A boundary is defined as "something I will defend no matter what."

A very common question is, "How do I enforce a boundary? How do I make my spouse stop lying, how do I make my spouse stop dating OP, how do I make my spouse start taking care of our family instead of someone else's?"

The answer is: You don't.

Trying to "make" people do the things listed above is not enforcing a boundary. It's control, it's manipulation, it's laying down demands, etc. etc. etc.

And none of it works.

The answer to the question, "How Do I Enforce A Boundary?" is virtually always the same:

You remove yourself from the situation. You stop allowing the boundary trespasser to have any access to you at all.

This is what's meant by, "You can't control others. You can only control yourself."

You can't "make" your spouse stop lying to you - but you can remove yourself from their presence and no longer allow them around you until they do.

You can't "make" your spouse stop dating OP - - but you can remove yourself from their presence and no longer allow them around you until they do.

You can't "make" your spouse take care of your family instead of someone else's - but you can remove yourself from their presence and no longer allow them around you until they do.

Get the idea now?

Boundaries are for *you*. They are to protect you from people who would do you harm. They are NOT about "making" others do anything. They are about protecting *YOU*.

Castle walls don't make the invaders stop their cruel and destructive attitudes - but they do protect you from their intrusion.

Boundaries are castle walls.

The MB methods aren't supposed 2 be "putting the wS on restriction", though they might look that way 2 the inexperienced (and they have 2 me at various times in the past).


This is where you "work on yourself", which really means that you get 2 (and have the responsibility 2) reflect on your contribution 2 the state of your marriage (NOT the start of the affair), and what you might be able 2 do now 2 change that for the better, either for this marriage or a fu2re one.

We're often told that we're all "wired for affairs" on this forum. I suppose we are. I've never felt susceptible for an affair, but my W thought she never was. Perhaps the only difference between us is that she succumbed 2 temptation but I didn't. (and now that we've had this experience, I'm pretty sure I never could).

As 2 whether the FWS needs rules 2 control them 2 keep them out of trouble in the fu2re? Look at it this way for your own growth in your own si2ation. It's not so much a need of hers 2 follow rules as it is a need of yours 2 be convinced she's learned something from her experience that will prevent her from doing something like that again. In other words, establish some healthier personal boundaries and convince you that she's done so. If she's sincere and you're receptive, I bet it'll look less like a successful imposition of rigid rules of behavior and more like caring, compassion, empathy, and hopefully more than a little hard-earned wisdom.


Well, I'm a big fan of questioning! Thomas was my favorite disciple!

-ol' 2long

Watta,

Take your hands off the wheel, step back and breath.

Seriously, you are right sometimes during this process you just MUST step back and BE. Think, feel, relax, and plan, but don't try to DO anything. It takes more than a little while to absorb what has happened to you and to learn the concepts promoted on this site. Some of them are very counter intuitive.

Take your time, this is a process and it will not be solved in a few weeks or even months.


God Bless,

JL

Living apart will teach you one thing for sure and that is, �How to live apart.� Once either of you learns that, you may find that she (or you) is unimportant.

That is what potentially awaits you.



This should not be a case where YOU put her on restrictions. That will never work. The way it works is that she will put herself on certain restrictions. She owes you that as compensation for her thoughtless and loveless actions of the past. These restrictions (the more common word is boundaries) become an act of love that she gives to you. They should provide you comfort and ease so that you know that whenever she is out of your line of sight, you will worry less and be more at ease. Time takes care of the rest. A good counselor can help her establish a set of boundaries but YOU will make the final determination of whether those boundaries are sufficient.

By far, the best part of her paying you this compensation through establishment of boundaries, the very best part is that it builds love and re-energizes the relationship with new beginnings of trust. She will feel positive about herself for doing it, because you will appreciate her acts, acts of love. One complements the other and so on and so on and so on.

You talk about a plan, but I must suggest to you that a good plan must include what I�ve discussed above. Of course your plan must also address the many failing that you may be responsible for throughout the course of your marriage. Those must be addressed too. Of course, your wife�s choice to have an affair is in NO way one of your failings; that belongs to her and always will.

The object of all this, besides simply saving the marriage, is to arrive at a point where the things that each of you do to bring self-happiness also brings happiness to each other. It is the balance of �giver and taker�.

Good stuff Mr. Good Stuff. I totally agree.

Larry

They already live apart. They've already learned what that is. Now they are trying to decide if it makes sense to come back together. Watts Boundry is that he is not willing to let her back in the house until he feels safer, until he see's changes over time. This is a boundry.

At some point if they are to come back together another step will have to take place. To go from "well I wonder if maybe we could make it work", to "you must follow all of these steps exactly and do it right now" is a big leap. Maybe it will take a little more time.

Is that unreasonable?