I obviously need help. Sorry this is so long. I broke it up to make it more readable.
Here are my d-days in order:

D-day #1: 9/10/08 H was having a six-month long-distance EA with a high school classmate (and he had been with her at his class reunion two months earlier). At the time he was easing his way out of the relationship and recommitting to the M. He admitted kissing her.

January 08 while H was out of town visiting a friend H had picked up a woman in a bar, made out with her and she gave him a ride home to the friend's house and "maybe" they were going to have sex;

April 08 he took a work colleague out for drinks, he wanted to pursue a relationship, she wasn't interested;

June 08 he tried to make out with a neighbor who refused;

H tells me I know everything.

D-day #2 9/17/08:

While at his reunion, H had sex with OW 3 times and spent every night together in a vacation rental when he was supposed to be at his mother's house.

H tells me I know everything.

D-day #3 over several days in April 2009:
After much gentle pushing from me, H finally tells me as much of the details of his A as he can remember. The details put the A into a somewhat different light. Many of the answers were �I don�t remember, maybe.�

January 08 H hit on a woman in a bar while out of town and kissed her.

April 08 while I was out of town H picked up a woman in a bar, kissed and fondled her, went to her apartment where he tried to get oral sex. She refused.

H not only tells me I know everything, he tells me he�s relieved to have finally gotten it all into the open.

D-day #4 this past week over the course of several days:

I need to give more details about these revelations.

In January 08 when he was at the friend�s house, he led me to believe that if he was going to have sex, it would have been at the friend�s house. I believed this because they hadn�t done it in the car on the way to the friend�s house and he told me there was some reason they couldn�t go to her place, so if sex was going to happen, which he had acknowledged was a possibility, it would have been at the friend�s house. As a result, I was furious with the friend for not objecting to what H was doing. By way of background, the friend is a notorious adulterer and womanizer. Despite this, I stupidly felt that since it was the first time H was straying (it actually wasn�t, but H had led me to believe this via the trickle truth described above), the friend should at least say something. I also felt the friend shouldn�t have allowed H to bring a strange woman into his house, especially because the friend�s teenage son was there too. This friend and I were always on good terms. He�d stayed at our house, we�d been on vacation together a couple of times, and H and I had agreed to raise his children should something ever happen to him and his XW. The friend learned I was upset and avoided me for a year.

H pushed the friend to contact me to try to repair our relationship. H desperately wanted to feel normal with this friend but felt he couldn�t because of my feelings. The friend called twice, but I never called back. I was still confused about my feelings regarding his inaction and really didn�t know what to say. I also worried that the friend knew more about H�s infidelity than I did and I didn�t want to appear foolish.

Last week, after pushing from H, I finally drafted an e-mail to the friend expressing my feelings. I sent the draft to H and he immediately responded back that he wasn�t going to have sex at the friend�s house. I took this to mean he was trying to convince me that sex hadn�t been an option in his mind. After pushing from me, he finally said that they were planning to go to a hotel. I got very angry with H for several reasons. First, it meant he was still hiding things from me. Second, it changed once again the version of events as it related to the friend and his inaction. Third, to me, there�s a huge difference between going home with the woman and maybe they were going to have sex to yes, they were planning on having sex in a hotel. Am I being unreasonable?

This newest revelation caused me great distress. I became convinced that H was still hiding things from me. I got so stressed that I thought I was having a heart attack. I ended up in the emergency room for 6 hours and needed to have a stress test done the next day. H was very supportive throughout this ordeal.

The next day I told H I was considering divorce because he was still lying to me and there was likely much more that I didn�t know. H defended himself by saying that he didn�t think the hotel thing was relevant. I already knew they might have sex, why did the location matter.

Last Saturday I told H I wanted him to take a polygraph. He refused giving the typical wayward response: I�m afraid of false positives . . . . After much pushing from me, he finally admitted the following:

Years earlier he had been having inappropriate online communications in a chat room.

Years earlier he had e-mail exchanges with an old girlfriend that led her H to believe that he was pursuing her. I subsequently read at least some of these e-mails and I can understand why the H was worried and I can see that H has boundary issues.

A few years ago while I was out of town, he had gone on Ashley Madison and been trolling for women. He found one and engaged in cyber sex with her.

In January 08 during the trip to his hometown (not the friend visit), he picked up a woman in a bar, took her to the beach and tried to have sex. They couldn�t complete the act, but they certainly tried. He now claims this was cheating, but it wasn�t sex because there was only attempted and not actual penetration.

When asked why he had lied about all this over the last 18 months, he claimed he didn�t think it was relevant. I knew the worst about him, so I didn�t need to know everything.

He claims he wants to stay married and that he wants to work on our relationship. Yet this time, unlike all the earlier revelations, I don�t get the sense of true remorse. I also have no way of knowing what else is out there.

Do I stay and work on the marriage? Do I give up? Do I stay for the sake of the kids and leave him in 8 years?

Bea, sorry you find yourself here. No one wants to belong to this club, but the people in it are some of the best in the world.

You can get a lot of good advice here. You will also get people "telling it straight," so be prepared to hear things you may not want to.

Have you read the Basic Concepts? If not, start by clicking on the box to the right labeled "Most Popular Links." If you don't understand what this site is about, it will be a lot harder for you.

Then you have to ask yourself, "What do *I* want from this marriage?" You've detailed four separate D-days -- this suggests your husband is a serial cheater. Are you up for #5? #6?

"Staying together for the sake of the kids" is always the worst possible scenario. Yes, it sounds noble, but it results in a family full of dysfunction and disordered behaviors. Not that divorce is a whole lot better, but in some cases it's more honest.

Please read the articles written by Drs. Harley on this site, and then let us know what *your* decision is.

Yes, it sucks to be here. However, the help and hope you can get from here makes it somewhat easier to bear. Welcome!

Schedule the polygraph. He threw you a few crumbs to get out of taking it. If he refuses it go Plan-B. He is a serial cheater with no remorse.

God's Blessings,

Say

I am sorry you are here. I have suffered only one D-day. I cannot imagine 4.

Tell us why you would want to stay. He obviously does not understand boundaries. Staying for the kids leaves them with the wrong lesson learned in life.

Your H sounds like a serial adulterer. Why would you want to stay with him?

So he showed true remose the last 3 times and look where that has lead you. This time with no remorse where do you think you are headed ( hint there ia a number 5 in the answer).

Time to cut your losses and show your kids what self respect is and how they should handle tough situations when they grow up.

PLAN D !!!!

Thanks for the replies.

I came to this board within a week or two of the first d-day and what I learned here kept us together up to this point. I've read all the books, I've read all the articles and I've read and posted here off and on over the last 18 months.

I'm planning on counseling with Steve by phone. H says he will participate, but he has a habit of not following through.

Why would I consider staying? When things are good between us, they're great. We are good together in so many ways. We also have a great life and great kids and I don't want that to change.

H suffers from depression and add. It has taken a huge toll on our M over the years, but it doesn't account for all our problems. We were both guilty of neglecting our M and didn't have the tools to make it better. We now have those tools, and when we apply the MB concepts, it makes a difference.

All but the cyber cheating happened when H was going through a profound psychological crisis. He has gotten IC and it has helped.

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January 08 while H was out of town visiting a friend H had picked up a woman in a bar, made out with her and she gave him a ride home to the friend's house and "maybe" they were going to have sex.

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June 08 he tried to make out with a neighbor who refused.

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April 08 he took a work colleague out for drinks, he wanted to pursue a relationship, she wasn't interested;

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D-day #2 9/17/08: While at his reunion, H had sex with OW 3 times and spent every night together in a vacation rental when he was supposed to be at his mother's house.

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He now claims this was cheating, but it wasn�t sex because there was only attempted and not actual penetration

If I eliminate all your justifications for why he did what he did this is all my eyes see.
Do you see the same thing that I see. And these are the only ones that you know of because your WH told you about them.

Run Forest Run...

I do see it precisely that way. I am also convinced that there is at least one more d-day coming, hence the title of my thread.

Everything happened between January and September of 2008 (except the internet things). He ended the A to work on our M before the first d-day. Aside from marital issues stemming from his add and depression, things have been pretty good since then and at times, great.

He is a good person at his core. Our kids also suffer from add and depression and I've seen how it affects their interpersonal relationships and the choices they make. I'm not excusing anything H did, but I do need to keep it in perspective.

I've told him that to avoid D he needs to show true remorse, finishing disclosing everything, take the polygraph and go through counseling with me and then I'll decide.

What else should I add to the list if I don't go to plan B now?

It was sad to remove the "recovering nicely" bit from my profile.

A serial adulterer can change. Not often mind you, and before everyone slams me for saying that, I will hold up an example. I seem to remember it was Gxxxxx. If it wasn't, again don't nail me to the cross. Whoever it was, was married to a woman who had cheated many, many times. He has attested that the marriage is in recovery now and has passed out much good advice on how to do it. Someone with a better memory than me can supply the name or better yet, he will discover this thread and comment.

Since you are going to Steve, you are thus in the hands of the expert and I am not going to offer advice or direction. All I wanted to do was offer up that in very RARE cases, apparently a serial adulterer can reform themselves and stay straight, maybe.

Larry

B


Of course you don't. But you are not the one who is cheating, he is making the decision, not you.

Larry

If you stay with your WH, he at least needs to take a polygraph and go through the Tiger Woods sex addiction rehab. He also needs to live by the MB code from now on. If not, kick him to the curb.

Because of H's trickle truth method of disclosure, for a long time I viewed him not as a serial adulterer, but as someone going through the process of getting to the ultimate act of adultery. I saw him as testing the waters and getting further and further into the pool as time went on.

At the time all this was going on, H was such a mess that I believed he was manic due to add medications. Others who knew him well could instantly tell something was very wrong with him. Some thought he was on drugs, some thought he was having a midlife crisis.

I came to accept the midlife crisis explanation as the best way to describe a very complicated and devastating situation. He was tormented and horrible to everyone in his life thorughout that time, not just to me. He was looking for a way to distract himself from all the emotional pain he was in. He was struggling with aging in a big way. He was also just getting to the same age as his father was when he died.

His crisis had been brewing for a while, but it hit with full force in August 2007. He normally gets very depressed at the end of the summer. The depression was particularly bad that year and it sent us on a massive downward spiral. Now I wonder if he was already cheating at the time and all the crisis he was going through was really caused by wayward insanity rather than the insanity causing the cheating.

Larry,

I am as confident as I can be that he hasn't strayed a bit since d-day #1 in September 2008. I have what I believe to be full access and we haven't been apart more than a few nights and that was under supervision with a trusted friend.

Jim,

I don't view him as a sex addict because of the limited span of time in which the cheating occurred. Maybe I should reconsider.

Bea

keylogger on the computer(s).

GPS on his cellphone, always on him, always enabled, that sends reports to you.

No more trips without you.

Post-nup agreement saying you get the house and his 401K if he ever strays again in word or in deed.

Turtlehead,

Those are good additions to my list. I already have the keylogger in place on the home computers. The work computer I can't control.

I don't have GPS on him. Anyone know how to do it with the iPhone?

He already has agreed to no more trips without me unless he's with his brother and/or his best friend (not the one mentioned earlier). They were the ones who approached me about H's suspected EA.

I like the post-nup idea!

Bea

Well, with respect rc, you could ask that question of every single BS who comes here with a view to saving a marriage. Why would they want to stay?

My marriage suffered a 3 year PA plus lingering contact by phone for the final 6 month EA (all with the one woman). Is that better or worse than bea's experience? Are we both, or neither of us, or only one of us, doormats for trying to recover?

After my own multiple D Days, my children were probably my only motivation for staying. However, through my once-seething, bitter resentment, I could see that I would be doing them no favours if I merely lived with and nourished my sense of injustice and martyrdom. An unhappy mother (or father) would only succeed in creating an unhappy home and family, and in the end I would have given the children nothing. They would leave home as soon as possible and say that we should have dissolved the marriage, because we only made them miserable by living with our own misery.

I choose to try and create a happy and fulfilling marriage. This necessitates creating my own boundary; my H is free to choose his affair (or another) and I will not live with that. I also need to see that he wants to be here and cares for me. I did not want him here under duty or sufferance.

3 years after my last D Day, as I have put down my misery and my once-punishing attitude and found my own self-respect, I have helped to create a marriage that is still a work in progress, but is unrecognisable from the marriage that existed during the affair. My H, although resistant to anything smacking of therapy or professional help (we're British, to provide a context!), goes all out to make me happy and take care of me. I'm working on bringing him on board with MB, but even without that, he deserves much credit for working hard at our marriage.

The lessons we are teaching the kids are not "the wrong one(s)"; they are that THEY are worth the struggles and that we would do anything for them, that a good marriage does not usually come naturally but must be worked at, and that the rewards of a single, lifelong marriage are well worth having. Even if we do not stay together (which seems so unlikely now!) they will have seen us work for what we believed in, and having taken marriage as a serious commitment "not to be entered into lightly" as the registrar said at my wedding. They will have seen us try hard for them, and for what we believe in.

I would not say that staying for the kids is a cop out or setting them a bad example. It depends on what you do with that chance, I would say; not on the outcome, but on the effort.

Sugarcane,

Thank you for your insight. It helps a lot.

Bea

SC

THAT was first class. Kudos.

Larry