We've been together for 19 years, married for 13 years. We have two children and it is a 1st marriage for both of us.

Renters believe Our relationship is temporary. You may be right for me today and wrong for me tomorrow.

Buyers believe We are together for life.

Renters believe Our relationship should be fair. What I get should balance what I give.

Buyers believe We both contribute whatever it takes to make our relationship successful.

Renters believe As needs change, the relationship may end if needs are difficult to meet.

Buyers believe As needs change, we will make adjustments to meet new needs.

Renters believe Criticism may prompt me to change if it's worthwhile for me to do so.

Buyers believe Criticism indicates a need for change.

Renters believe Sacrifice is reasonable as long as it's fair.

Buyers believe Sacrifice is dangerous and to be avoided.

Renters believe Short-term fixes are fine.

Buyers believe long-term solutions are necessary.

What's heartbreaking is that the H I am describing now is so differnt to the H I new before the A.

He used to tell me all the time how much he loved me and that me and our girls meant everything to him and he could not imagine life without us.

It's just mind blowing!

He has not recovered from his affair and is still FOGGY MINDED. Why do you think that is?

He is NOT unhappy that you are not happy. He is unhappy because you won't SHUT UP about it. He doesn't care enough about your happiness to stop doing what makes you unhappy. THAT is the problem. His thoughtless indepdendent behavior is triggering your angry outbursts and disrespectful judgements.

Because he still loves her?

Because he thought she was his soulmate?

Because he just doesn't love me anymore, or the way he used to?

Because he really did get abducted by alien and they gave him a personality transplant?

Honestly I don't know.

I have asked him what he now thinks/feels about OW. He says the doesn't think or feel anything and doesn't want to - it's in the past. Is this the truth - I don't know?

I don't always know what's real and what's not these days.

I would have to agree with this 100%

But what do I do? How to I start changing this situation?

If I were in your shoes, I would get him to a Marriage Builders weekend but FIRST call up and counsel with Steve Harley to get him motivated. If you guys really implement this program RIGHT, you can fall back in love. His motivation problem is that he does not believe he can have a happy, romantic marriage with you, so he has given up. But he doesn't understand how his behavior is PREVENTING that from happening.

So, in order to motivate him to do anything, I would get counseling with Steve Harley. If Steve has a chance to talk to him, he can tell him how using this program can give him the kind of marriage he WANTS. What Steve says to them is something along these lines: wouldn�t the ideal situation be to be IN LOVE with your wife?� He then lays out in a logical fashion how he can bring that about. By doing this, he gives a reluctant spouse HOPE. That is what you both need. Because you are not going to be able to solve this on your own.

I don�t think you can persuade him to do any of this because you are both so angry at each other that you are in a negative loop that is feeding on itself. The more negative you ARE, the more you want to hurt each other. However, if Steve were step in, he could be the one doing the selling.

Another thing is that you don�t have to get your H to agree to counsel with Steve. He won�t counsel you together anyway. If you called on your own, he would assess your situation and then tell you what to say to your H to get him on the phone ALONE with Steve. If you have Steve guiding you, you won�t be so worn down and discouraged.

That is what I would do knowing what I know. My H and I did go to a MB weekend and it is just fantastic. They assign you a COACH who contacts you WEEKLY for the year it takes to get through the program.

Thank you for your advice. I really appreciate it.

H is somewhat anti MB but that doesn't stop me from setting up a counselling session for myself to start with.

LH, my H was anti-MB, too, until he really got that he stood to reap great benefits from it. Because I badgered and lovebusted him SO BAD the first year, he naturally grew to associate MB with my bad behavior. Plus, I tried all the time to educate him, which he really, really hated.

This is why I think you should let Steve do the heavy lifting and let HIM sell your H on this. Guys like Steve because he is very logical.

Lemme see if I can explain something.

See, the guilty often view counseling, coaching, therapy, as a hanging place. Their screw ups are gonna be held up as world class stupid by this stranger and all their carefully hoarded excuses blown away.

In other words, the guilty dodge guys like Steve because they don't want what they think of as gonna happen; humiliation. Nobody wants to care that sign around no matter how badly they have acted.

Steve Harley doesn't work that way and neither does Jennifer.

Need help here:

Given the above as a premise or possible theory, what would those reading this come up with to say to the guilty to motivate them to seek a session?



Larry

Steve will usually give the client spouse some TALKING POINTS to use to get the reluctant spouse on the phone. Those talking points seem to differ based on the situation/person.

"Steve is trying to help me with this situation. He would like to get your perspective so he can better help me."

And since most WS' feel like no one understands their "side", they are often receptive to this request. That is one tactic I have heard him use.

Its interesting to note that the vows we swear to in marriage cause us to grow if we both stick to them. And that God never said we would not fail in our lives to keep all of our promises to him, which those vows represent. The vows were designed for us to grow together and using the model of truth being a place to set us free, not something to drive us into secrecy and deception.

God never expected us to be perfect. Just not to hide form our mistakes


Just an observation...

Edit

It was just an observation... Not supposed to be a thread killer..

So hows it goin lonely?

I�m not sure what to say to this. I feel kinda inadequate, not strong enough to be a better person.

Thanks for asking how it�s going though.



This quote from another thread �Inside the WS�s mind� I think is for the most part where my M is at right now. Except minus the flowers and cards, would love either of those.

H and I have just been through another round of where I try to express what I need form him, he tells me he�s done all he can do, tried his hardest, and my inability to be happy with things the way they are is my problem. Even suggested this time that I needed help and I should consider counselling.

We did try again to go over the rules for recovery. H is very anti MB so I have to try to get him to by into what I�m proposing without mentioning MB, SAA etc.

We didn�t even get past rule one. He basicly does not care if some of the things he does makes me unhappy. If he wants to go out for drinks after work on Friday night he�ll do it. If he wants to have his friend stay in our house for months he�ll do it. As far as he�s concerned he�s not doing anything wrong, he�s not having an A and he�s being honest with me so what�s my problem.

So I decided to just try and focus on one thing. Getting him to agree to spending more UA time together. I thought we got to a pint of understanding and he agreed to more UA time.

So the next night he spends the entire night, with his friend that is staying, in another room separate from me. I cook dinner, I do homework with the kids, I clean up after dinner and he sits with his friend watching �boys� programmes on TV, talking �boys talk�. Aaaaarggh! I feel like a doormat.

I am venting, I feel like giving up today.

don't give up lonely. I didn't mean that post to bring you down, All of us fail at times with those vows.

You are exactly where you should be emotionally and thats why we arehere , to support you.

Sorry if I was so preachy...

I would want to be beaten to death with a wet noodle if you stopped posting....

Thanks SSO...best laugh I've had all day.

I'll keep posting even if it's only to save you from death by a wet noodle.