I think it's true that some people do see disagreement with their opinion as a "conflict" or even "dislike." So, they don't share their true opinions and they don't respond positvely when you share yours. I have noted people who equate disagreeing with their opinion about something as the desire to not be friends.

I also think it's true that it's easy to misinterpret certain things with differences in communication styles and body language....level of animation / excitment. There was a gentleman who wroked with me who was very passionate about our project. He always spoke very excitedly and in a very animated way about the project. People took him the wrong way all the time.

Then again, I also believe that some angry behavior is just hella blatant. Yelling and cursing at ((insert family member / spouse's name here)) is a deliberate act. AOs are used to punish, control, or a combination of the two...

Yes i agree with you all as well because i know that i can get into some heated debates myself.

However there is a difference in a heated debate and an AO in my household for sure.......

My h's AOs are so full of RAGE, it is sometimes scary. I do not belive for him anyway it is a way to do anything or get his way though.

For my h it is almost as if AOs are his ONLY way to deal with any negative emotion such as anger, worry, irritation, sadness, anything negative is dealt with in AO's.

WOW! It is SO rare for me to find someone who understands this! I hate having to "calm myself down" during discussions just so people won't think I'm angry/attacking them. It takes a lot of the FUN out of a lively discussion cuz it's just not that... "lively"

An observation on this thread title:

"Do nothing" is not a solution.

Do nothing is the default policy in the POJA.

The goal is negotiation and enthusiastic agreement. Eventually that will likely translate into doing something.

Doing nothing in the meantime is what you do to ensure that you do not hurt your spouse.

I'm still new to Marriage Builders -- am I right?

I still don't feel like I have this question totally worked out in my mind.

Let me make up an example.

Let's say Husband and Wife play World of Warcraft online together almost every night. They've been doing so for a couple of years now, and have really enjoyed it.

Wife begins to feel unenthusiastic about World of Warcraft. Husband is still enthusiastic. Wife tells Husband she doesn't want to play any more, but he still wants to.

Does "do nothing" mean:
* Don't do anything -- don't play the game, or
* Don't do anything -- don't stop playing the game?

If the wife suddenly refused to play WoW I can see how that would be a big love bank withdrawal from her husband, so I can see how we might think the "don't change" interpretation might be better for the marriage.

But, then, if she keeps playing, that'll be love bank withdrawals from her.

Hmmm....

I had almost talked myself into thinking that the answer might actually be different depending on whether the husband or the wife was asking "What should I do?"

But now I'm almost talking myself into thinking that you shouldn't keep doing something you are reluctant to do, since it is unhealthy for the marriage. I'm thinking of some of the columns I've read by Dr. Harley about sex, and what he'd say if I changed my example to sex. I really can't see him advocating that a married person do anything, long term, that they are reluctant to do.

So I'm starting to think that "stop doing it" is the correct interpretation of "do nothing." But I'm sure you don't want to use POJA to beat up your spouse over it. I think I need to reread that whole thing about the two types of resentment.

Then again, I know that Dr. Harley advocates short term meeting your spouse's emotional needs even when you are reluctant...

I think the MB response is that they should both stop playing and find somethign else to do together that both of them enjoy. H will likely oppose this solution initially, in most cases because he thinks / fears / expects that they will not find an alternative activity that he enjoys as much as WOW. The key is for W to help brainstorm an activity that they both enjoy so much he doesn't mind refraining from playing WOW. The ultimate goal is for the process of brainstorming to have been so successful regarding so many disagreements that eventually both spouses think / hope / expect that they WILL find win-win resolutions to most conflicts.

Great example.

I think the answer is that the spouses stop playing WOW and find something new to do that they are both enthusiastic about. WOW isn't really UA time anyway, and for husband to do it alone is IB.

(Now, if only I can convince my husband of this logic :))

There is nothing my husband seems to enjoy more than WOW. Even SF(I know, I know, that is a DJ!)

I will take a stab at this and say the answer is:

1) WoW is not UA, it's RC Recreational Companionship

2) They should find something for their RC to replace the RC time playing WoW. The POJA comes into play while they are negotiating for what the RC activity will be. The wife should continue WoW until the negotiation / search for an alternative RC activity is complete.

Technically, you're supposed to use undivided attention time to meet intimate emotional needs, which includes recreational companionship.


So would you say the principle involved here would be something like "Don't change anything without enthusiastic agreement of your spouse"? Or "Don't eliminate something that might be meeting an emotional need without enthusiastic agreement of your spouse"?

Any Marriage Builder oldtimers want to chime in? Class is in session, and we need teachers.

This is where Radical Honesty comes in. Wife needs to explain that H playing WOW so much is a LB to her. That drains her love bank. Hopefully, eventually, the H realizes that the NET enjoyment to him (his enjoyment less wife's unhappiness) is less than from another activity he enjoys less but that doesn't trigger negative feelings in his wife.

I understand the lure of WOW. I have often played computer games to excess. There is a reason so many people play WOW. It works like a drug to trigger pleasure centers in the brain. The key is to find ways to help your H feel a "win" from other behaviors. Maybe home improvement project. Embarking on an "I always wanted to" activity together. Help him overcome his natural resisitance to trying something new. he might find he likes it more than WOW.

Okay, that solves that particular situation, but I'm not in the hypothetical situation I posed; I just have specific questions about the POJA. Does "do nothing" mean "don't change anything" or "stop doing something," particularly in the case where stopping something might be perceived as a love buster by your spouse?

True. I stand corrected.

Here's what I found:




Oooh. Good one.

I think what I am saying is make no changes to the current arrangement since stopping would be making a change which neither of them is enthusiatic about - removing the RC-UA time in absentia of a replacement activity. A high priority shouldbe placed on finding a replacement asap.

How's that?

Um...Not liking that Mr H. "Hopefully, eventually"? The love bank will most certainly be drained. No?

The goal IMO is to find a replacement activity asap.

But what if H doesn�t care about negative feelings in his wife? And H doesn�t WANT to find something else to do together?

That's why I asked the question I did...well - sort of.

I was thinking in terms of H being emotionally lazy or addicted to WoW as many people are.

Daisy

Don't be like me. Don't assume the worst. Assume that if you do a great Plan A, which includes becoming the best person you can be, that your spouse will be so attracted to you that they will want to do things with you and not want you to experience negative feelings.

If that fails, you can always Plan B. Give them a taste of life without you.

And if that does not motivate them to want to find something to do with you to avoid triggering negative feelings, then you either stay in Plan B or move to Plan D. But hopefully it will never come to that.

Chris

As for WOW addiction, the Harleys admit that MB won't work with addicts. The addiction must be cured first. And addicts have to want to cure themselves. Their partners need Al-Anon, CODA etc to deal with the impact of life with an addict.

emotionally lazy then

This is the beauty of Plan A, the reality-bringer. You'll have a huge sense of peace that you've done your part, cleaned your side of the street, and are ready for what comes next. Since you will have practice by this time eliminating the LBs, if you're parents, you'll be able to co-parent amicably.

I'm not an old-timer but I HAVE been around here since 2005, and this subject's come up a lot in that time.

The theory I liked is that 'do nothing' means exactly that - do not DO anything. So if W wants to play WoW and H doesn't anymore, they stop playing but don't start doing anything else. This helps because Dr H. says 'not getting to do something you WANTED is less likely to breed resentment than having to do something you DIDN'T want."

This even helps when the W wants to go to the park and H just wants to stay home and do nothing, because the H sure wasn't betting on not being able to do anything while he's home. "Just staying at home and doing nothing" is usually a pretty complicated day planning, involving doing groceries, cooking, watching TV, playing games, working on personal projects, etc. In 'doing nothing' they just stare at each other until they come to a POJA, or POJA a break for POJA-ing.

And even if there's a time-sensitive issue, like H wants to go to a concert that's quickly selling out and W wants to stay home, 'doing nothing' is not a really bad thing. Sure, if they're both stubborn, H may miss his concert, but it's not like the W gets to say "Well, you missed your concert anyway, so now we can go with MY plan" - they still have to POJA the H retroactively being OK with missing his concert.