LOL, I like your approach even better than what I just wrote. Neither gender has a monopoly on stupid...

Perhaps someone who has been through D can offer me some insight. My future ex seems to have totally lost her mind. I had her served 3/5/10. Some days things are very civil. Other days she just HATES me. I mean HATES!! One simple question I ask her and she snaps and gets soooo snotty with me. SHE is the one with 3 OM! WTF?!? I know it's all part of the fog but it is laughable. I mean, if she could just see how crazy all this is. All she had to do was go to marriage counseling.

Amen, brother!

The only thing that I still think about is the complete craziness. I don't want to recover the marriage, I don't want to talk/see/hear her again, I don't want to have anything to do with her disordered children, and I don't want to delude myself into thinking that this was all a dream.

I confess that when I do have thoughts of her, they are invariably followed by the sheer insanity of the situation. As a recovered alcoholic, it's very much like thinking of drinking -- any thought of drinking is immediately followed by the realization how crazy that thought is.

The only hope I entertain is that someday she has a moment of clarity and sees how hurtful, deceitful and dishonest her life has been. I'm not holding my breath.

She was served and the answer date passed a week ago. She has still not responded. My attorney called today and asked what was going on. About two weeks ago I made the future ex an offer. She said she would think about it.

When I first served her I did hope it would be a bit of a wake up call and maybe open her eyes as to how insane her activities have been. It didn't and she only moved her belongings into a spare bedroom, stopped wearing her wedding ring and has been staying away from the house. Now, I cannot think of a single thing that would make me want to save my marriage.

It is nearly universal for WSs (esp. WWs) to accuse/believe that their BS is "controlling", "smothering", "dominating" or any such term. My WW complained about me being "controlling" too, even going so far as to state that I 'locked her in the house' (obviously if that had been the case, she wouldn't have been able to screw around with her OM all over town like she was doing. She also said "you are so judgmental!� when I confronted her with the obvious impropriety of being a married woman who was affairing with a married man). These phony and exaggerated allegations are as common in adultery as stars are in the clear night sky.

It all stems from the psychology of the cheater. The WS wants the �freedom� to indulge their adultery and naturally sees their marriage/BS as an obstacle (those darn faithful spouses actually expect their mate to honor their vows and values�how dare they expect so much!). The inevitable extension of the WS�s resentment is to claim that they are merely liberating themselves from another�s �control�.

It is comical. I am a controlling person and she has lived in hell for 18 years according to her. What I find really interesting is that she will not speak to me. The ice cold nastiness reminds me of someone... her mother. Her parents were divorced at a young age. While I do not know the details, I believe her mother cheated. At our wedding, both of her parents were there and I seem to remember her mother treating her father the same way. He has been remarried for over 30 years with two more kids. Her mother, however, married two more times, had many failed relationships in between and STD or two.

Mom is still nuts and I think recognizing this helped me make my decision to file for D. She is starting to act like her mother acted 20+ year ago. I seem to remember a saying about an apple falling from a tree. In my case, I think it is more like a nut falling from a tree.

Jim,

I haven't read all your posts but my instinct is

Run do not walk to the closest EXIT !!!!

CJ...

The reactions are to be expected. Despite everything SHE has done, she now perceives YOU as directly and distinctly hurting her. By filing for divorce, YOU have hurt her tremendously and THAT is a fact, no matter who does it. No matter what she has done to you... YOU REALLY DID HURT HER WHEN YOU FILED.

That is OK, because the situation calls for it. But you have to remember that her pain is a direct result of YOU filing. It isn't craziness in reality, anymore than crying out because you have surgery without anesthesia. It is to be expected. Even the most wayward of spouse will still feel the pain of someone they DO CARE ABOUT, on some level, probably higher than is felt by the betrayed spouse. The WS still loves the other person, and doesn't see their betrayal as really changing that fact.

So... yes it SOUNDS crazy... and APPEARS crazy from our standpoint. But to them, it is perfectly reasonable. YOU hurt her, no matter if it is just self preservation or whatever, you still hurt her. She isn't going to want to talk with you like you are 'buddies'. She is feeling the pain of loss, and rationalization about WHY you filed really doesn't make it better... or perhaps even makes it worse because she can see that it is her behavior which is causing it to occur.

During this whole process just remember, it isn't what YOU think is going on, that she is reacting to. It is what SHE thinks which drives her actions. My wife thinks that I don't like her, because I write my true feelings on this board for 'the whole world to see'. She feels as though I am pointing her out in a crowd and everyone is jeering. She thinks I have people 'thinking things which aren't true'. However, she doesn't say anything I write is false. It is simply a reaction and their view based upon who they are inside. They grab ahold of one tiny detail and hold on, justifying their actions in their own minds.

There is nothing you can do... you said it yourself...

YOU CANNOT FIX A BROKEN SPOUSE

Your wife sounds exactly like mine however. You might want to read "Stop Walking on Eggshells; Taking your life back when someone you care about has BPD" It really opened up my eyes as to some of the behaviors of my wife and the sadness of it all. I feel the same as you, I would love for her to 'snap out of it' and realize what is happening. But throughout our marriage, I have been the ONLY person to try to make up after an issue.

I told myself that I would NOT take her back unless she decided to work on herself first. I have day-dreamed that she would want to stop the divorce (she filed) and work on us. That I would say, "I love you but I will not stop the divorce, although I won't push it. If you want to be married, then you need to choose to work on yourself. If you want to be married and rebuild our family, I need for you to make choices in whatever way, to be the person you really are, the person you believe yourself to be. Go to counseling and figure that out. If you need my help, I will help in counseling. THEN we can decide whether the people we really are and want to be are the people each of us wants to be with." But I am not holding my breath, because the simple fact that I would say that would cause her to retaliate with her in her current state. It is just so sad... but over the course of 4 years, I have learned, slowly but I have learned.

Heh... I thought about writing a letter and sending it to her entire family and friends stating as much. THAT would really put a shock into her. For her family to know that I loved her and still wanted the marriage but that it was up to her to decide what was worth what.

Thanks for a helpful post. I spoke with my attorney today. She sort of said what you did.... that even though people know it is coming, it still hurts getting served with divorce papers. I had been hoping that she would snap out of it but we are way beyond that now. I have no interest in saving this.

Late last night I got an e-mail from my attorney. She told me that she spoke with my wifes attorney and was told that he (wifes attorney) wants to have a sit down with all 4 of us for an amicable settlement. I am hoping my wife told her attorney she'd be willing to accept it. Given my wifes activities and knowing her, she is probably terrified of the details of her activities coming out in open court.

<crossing fingers>

Details rarely come out in Divorce Court. The court isn't worried about finding fault, they are worried about getting through the backlog of cases sitting in the queue.

Infidelity is rarely an issue and won't be heard in most courts, depending upon your state, ie no fault, etc. It is simply a non-issue to them so they won't allow testimony unless it directly impacts division of property. And that is pretty difficult to prove in a reasonable way. Most courts basically see divorce as a job. Their job is to split up the property, ensure children are cared for, and ensure child support is set. Otherwise, they would rather not have you in court at all.

I know that the issues you speak of are HUGE to you and your family... but they are meaningless in most regards, when it comes to the law and splitting up your things. Keep that in mind and talk with your attorney before you meet with her. Because if you think you are going in from a place of strength because of certain 'life' things, you might not negotiate in your REAL best interests, which is probably NOT to go to court at all.

IMO

I spoke with an atty. he said CLEARLY (when I was giving my "details"). He held his hands up and stopped me.
He said;
"Let me say this loud and clear. Do you really want to tell your story? Well, if you do, it will have to go to trial and it will cost you at least 3 times as much (he guarenteed it). Do you really want to tell your story that bad?"

Nobody really cares about cheating, lying or moral behavior anymore. These people hear this type of stuff every day, 8 hrs a day. To you it is terrible, to them...nothing.

Her atty has told her the same thing.

Egg-Zack-Lee!

My attorney told me almost the same thing, verbatim.

Oh, she would be more than happy to take my money if I wanted to pursue a "vengeful" divorce. But for what? WW has no assets. OM isn't going to be destroyed. What would be served except to spend hours and money getting what I can get through the "no-fault" route.

Sad, but those are the depths to which our society has sunk these days.

I am very aware that, sadly, courts do not take cheating into concideration. It takes two people to make a marriage but it only takes one to ruin it.

CJ...

My first wife had 4 affairs going AT THE SAME TIME when she left. When she left, she fell completely off the cliff. I had all sorts of information/proof, and I wanted.... OH HOW I WANTED to use it. But I just thought about my kids. EVERYTHING I DID I ran through my 'BOYS' filter. If it benefited them, then I did it. IF it HARMED them in any way, I DIDN'T DO IT!

It saved me... truthfully, it did. In alot of ways, I am glad that there wasn't a possibility for it to be used, because I would have gone down a different path and wouldn't be any better off for it. The pain is real and the desire to INFLICT pain is VERY REAL. However, you won't be better off because of it. I should have exposed to her family... that is one thing I would have done differently, but I wouldn't have used it in the divorce itself.

I do wish that it would affect custody and splitting of property, but then again, it might not have been good for my boys, so it ultimately wouldn't have been good for me.

My reoommendation is NOT to try to find justice in this mess. You simply will not find it, but can spend hours upon hours of self-righteously indulgent time seeking and justifying it to yourself, and unfortunately those who are willing to listen. I hated this mess while I went through it. I hate it now going through a milder form at this time as well. However, having done it before, I realize the things which allowed me to come out the other side in a better place.

In 2 years, you won't look back and think, "Man I am glad I got to show the world just what a 'b*tch' she really is" You will be thinking, "Man... I am glad that I got through that alive."

It is up to YOU to decide whether you will also be able to say "I got through that and can still look myself in the mirror."

Don't lay down... I did that and it didn't get me anything more than less money and more bills. It really didn't help any situation at all. But... not pushing the unpushable... that was a brilliant stroke of luck and advice.

One piece of advice I received which I was always thankful for and I truly put into practice.

EXPECT THE WORST ALL THE TIME. THEN WHEN IT HAPPENS, IT WILL NOT BE A SURPRISE, AND WHEN IT DOESN'T IT WILL BE A BLESSING.

This is so true, esp. in 'no-fault' states. It really has no impact on the division of property unless you had provision for such in a valid pre-nup (which most do not). Even then, the court must find it reasonable--the court will not sanction any provision that leaves a WW destitute just because she cheated.

I know of only two potential scenarios in which marital infidelity MAY be admissible and have some impact. [Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. I know this from attorneys I have spoken with and the rules vary between states.]

1. It may impact child custody arrangements in extreme cases (if the cohabitating affair-partner has been abusive or criminal). Obviously, this requires some pretty compelling evidence.

2. It may impact spousal-support. If the WS is living with the affair-partner, it can lessen or even invalidate their claim for SS, esp. if the WS will receive substantial assets anyway from the divorce and has the ability to earn their own living (i.e didn�t �give up their career� to be a stay-at-home-mom) during the marriage.

Jim,

This stuff is standard fare. The WS will blame you for everything (�you made me this way!� � yes, I actually heard that one). The �ice-cold nastiness� stems not only from her scapegoating/demonization of you but also from the fact, as mentioned by others here, that the WS desperately does not really want you to think too ill of them nor do they want others to (such as the family and friends you shared). It is crazy, I agree...I got it all. I wondered "why do you care about what the people you have tossed away really think?"

It is almost as though they think they can hurt you all they want (which they feel you deserve and brought on yourself anyway), but DON�T YOU DARE THINK OR SAY ANYTHING BAD about them. Sometimes they will threaten you with nasty letters from their attorney. Sometimes they will try to couch it as �let�s just be amicable, ok?� Sometimes, they will try to sweet-talk you into �being friends afterwards� with them. Sometimes they will later try to suck-up a bit by coyly asking about �how is XXXX doing?� in reference to friends and family they miss. I got all that too.

I was taken in a bit by this stuff until I wised-up and saw it for what it was�self-serving manipulation and cake-eating. The best thing to do is to get her completely out of your life as fast as you can and keep her there. She is massively broken and doesn�t want to get herself �unbroken�.

Well put, SDCW_man. So well put that it deserves to be highlighted:

She is massively broken and doesn�t want to get herself �unbroken�.

I have been having highs and lows and I have finally put my finger on why.

Two years ago, she filed for D after I found out about OM #1. I fought like crazy to save my marriage. Went to counseling even when she refused. I met her needs, I worked hard and I pulled her back. We were doing great!

Now, two years and two OM's later, I filed for D. Rather than fighting to save it, she just rolled over, turned nasty, took off her wedding ring, started hanging out with a now divorced friend, going to bars and so on. I was just having trouble accepting that someone would not even fight to save a 21 year relationship. Shes nuts.

No... she is merely willing to let you meet her needs as long and as much as possible. The marriage did NOT mean the same to HER as it did to you.

That is unfortunately often the case. This is the saddest truth we often find in marriage. That one person can be married to someone who has such a different view on what is common to both, ie the marriage and what it means.

You are internalizing this pretty hard CJ... I know it is tough.

I want you to think about something I am seeing... ONLY because I have been there and done the same thing myself.

Do you think you are trying to manipulate her into remaining married? And that when you do certain things, good or bad, that do NOT have the desired outcome, you are feeling let down all over again?

The thought that she didn't want her dirty laundry all over the place, ie amicable sitdown. The thought that you have already done 'everything you could'. She won't even fight for a 21 year marriage. Etc etc etc...

Think deep and hard. Hold it up to a mirror and look at it in the sunlight. In the bottom of your heart, somewhere in a crack, are you really disappointed that all the things you do, do not have the reaction and changes occur in her that you would think it should? Are you trying to or hoping on the outside/inside to 'do' something which will 'open her eyes'?

Think about it... I did it all. Even writing things on this board, knowing she read it and thinking that maybe she would 'understand' where I was coming from and gain insight. KNOWING she read it, and wondering how she could STILL think the way she does. It was all so confusing and dissapointing.

Just think about it for yourself... and your betterment. If you find yourself engaging in these sorts of things, you will realize that you are holding yourself back from improvement and calmness.

Just my observation...