Old timers can type UBB code and html code on the fly...

UBB code uses a switch type of system to differentiate different actions to take with text. a set of brackets [ & ] enclose the switch and [/__] turns off the switch.

Possible "switches" are b for bold, u for underline' i for italics, s for strikethrough, etc.

The switches quote and /quote, mean open quotation and end quotation, so anything you put between the switches shows up in a quote box. If you want to attribute a quote to a person, use the switch (inside [ ) and include within the brackets the equal sign (=) and the person's name (with no spaces) and follow with the ]. Then copy/paste the text you want to quote, and end it with the switch /quote, again, inside [ & ].

Can't type this stuff out since it actually does what you put between the switches and doing that results in the action rather than the switches showing up to be seen.

Spoiler content (a button to press to see the enclosed text) uses the switch "spoiler" and shuts of with the switch "/spoiler". so if I type out something between the switches like "spoiler]Hi there[/spoiler" and replace the beginning and ending quotes with the [ & ] as required I get this.
Other possible switches include [font] with a font name (only some changes are possible) followed by /font to end it, [color:#______] with values for red/blue and green in hexadecimal (again, only some colors are allowed) and [size] from the default of 8 pts to 26 pts but with only certain ones allowed.

The format "quote=George]This is a test[/quote" and replacing the " at the beginning and end with [ & ] results in
So when I type [tj] to a post and end my post with [/tj] I am really saying "begin threadjack" and "end threadjack". though UBB code does not recognize the switch and so just treats it like plain old text. (POT)

Confused yet?

Mark

Lets see, SSO, if I can tackle a response to your post. I will take it paragraph by paragraph...I haven't really taken a good look at me and the things I went through. I just thought it was something to get over. The first guy that really treated me like crap and was truly and honestly abusive I got pregnant and lost the baby at 22 weeks. I blame him and my self for that and the father. I was very naive at that time, being only 19 and my my parents sheltered me from everything in the world. I had no idea what was out there. I thought this guy was all I could get for some reason and didn't deserve any better. I had an unrequited "crush" at 16 that devistated me and my mother said I had ruined all chances with that person by leaving him an anonymous card something that would have been considered cute and sweet. I left him that card after vacation bible school. He was the youth leader and was about 22 at the time. I was head over heels for this guy. He never actually rejected me, I'm not sure if he knew who gave him the card. I wanted him to know it was from me, but I was painfully shy and thought I had no chance with him one I aged a little more. I reguarded him highly and considered him someone who would have made the "perfect" match for me. He was everything I had ever wanted or thought I wanted in a man. I guess since I though couldn't get that caliber of person, I lowered my standards.

How did hubby handle the news of what I had been through...I don't remember, I can't remember if he even knows it all.

When we were first married I really think he wanted me to make up for everything, I remember thinking many times that I wasn't his exes, I kept telling him over and over that I wasn't going to leave him. I got tired of repeating myself, I got tired of trying to reassure him. He always accused me of being insecure, well I always thought he was the insecure one.

We would be sitting on the same sofa together and I always had to sit in someway that something even a toe would be touching him. He hated that I just HAD to touch him, I don't do it to much now, but if he sees that I am trying to reach out to touch him, he will avoid it. He'll sometimes say "get your cold feet off me!" if I get to close.

Something else, he always says I try to start fights with him in front of his parents...I don't see it, but why would I do that?

No, I always wondered what was wrong with me and why he never seemed to want me. I could be a very passionate person...I feel like I have stuffed that passion so deep down inside me that I don't know where it went. It has gotten to where I share some of his personality, or either I am just a mere shell of my former self.
I really don't know Hubby's true feelings on sex. He likes to say he doesn't have an opinion on a lot of things and he seems on the surface very one dimensional.

I think I'll stop right here and chew some more on your post.

I am just shootin in the dark W02. I see you as a passionate woman and H as a honorable man.

The story i guessed at was not one I haven't seen before and the feelings I described are not strange to me either.

I hope I am helping with insight and giving you hope that you and he are not the first to experiance this kind of thing.

I want to instill hope in you and hope it is contagious toward your hubby.

wife_02,

He said he "can't forget it" because he can't forget it. That's about as plain a message as he can give you.

What you must understand here is that the affairs you had are now a running moving picture show inside his head. Yes, he DOES live with this all of the time. ALL. OF. THE. TIME.

I want to try to describe this to you so that you can carry this understanding into your mind like a burning torch, and I hope that this can hit that mark.

Imagine yourself standing before the mirror one morning and finding that you now have a third eye right in the middle of your forehead. This third eye allows you to see only ONE THING - the worst thing that has ever happened to you - and it sees it repeatedly, in living color, over and over. Each day, this eye catches a glimpse of something it had not seen yesterday, and looks for something new in that glimpse. It analyzes that new thing, and the brain homes in on it for each and every fine detail. As you try to sleep, the eye and the brain play the day's messages over again just in case something was not fully analyzed. The emotional system kicks in its part as well, because it has something to say about all of the overload and input it has been receiving - this has been a complete and total replay of the worst event in this person's life, yet again...

The next morning, the eye is again on duty, watching and replaying that horrible event. New details come to light, with additional questions regarding the validity of the previous day's information. Now, all previous information must be replayed as well, because these new details must be weighed in, and the emotional issues brought forth also must be considered in with the new vision.

Can you imagine this going on, every day? All day long?


That is what is happening, sort of, with the betrayed spouse. We keep a vigilance about us. We look back at the event virtually ALL THE TIME. We replay this d-day, all the events leading up to it, the events of the marriage, trying to figure out WHAT HAPPENED, why, how, why didn't I see it coming, how could this happen to me, why did he/she do this to me, how could I be so stupid, how could I be so worthless, how could I not have what they needed, how can I rise out of this, how can I put this together again, WHAT HAPPENED, is this WS telling me the truth, how will I know it is the truth, how do I know he/she loves me, am I loveable again, did he/she ever love me, was the marriage a lie, do I even know the truth, what is/was the truth...


And this goes on EVERY DAY

ALL DAY LONG

For a very long time

When the mind is idle, this pops in

To take up that idle spot, that idle time, that idle moment, when the sleep hasn't yet come;

when the redlight hasn't yet changed to green and the radio is silent;

when the wind is calm and the birds are between songs;

when the house is quiet in the night;

when the party isn't for us or when it is for us because that sense of loneliness still invades us even when we are at a party;

when we are standing in the crowd of 50,000 at a rock concert and we look over at the couple embracing and we wonder, will they be us in a year, or is one of them cheating right now and their BS is at home;

or when the alarm clock rings and we just turn it off to face the next day, and that third eye is the first to open up.



He cannot forget, because...he cannot forget.

Schoolbus

wife_02

After about two years...if you work very hard


there will be spaces in his pain, and you will see the fruits of your labor.

Work on changing yourself.

Let his changes come as his pain subsides. His changes will come, if YOURS do. Trust that.

Schoolbus

has it been two years snce you had the affairs and he was made aware of it W02?


School bus is right about time for him to see that you have changed that and for him to believe you really love him and only him.


I am concerned that he isn't even giving it a chance sometimes when he lashes out at you still. But I am assumming you have spent a couple years waiting for him to respond allready

Am I wrong? I don't wanna go back and read itall again




Hang in there W02, BBl and have a great night

Basically H needs to see that your marriage relationship and love for each other can change and be willing to try.

02

I have never seen what Schoolbus posted before. I don't know why because she has to have said it before, or not, I don't know.

What I am here to tell you is that she is dead on telling it like it is. You know I am a BS. And the betrayal played in my head every day in every way, exactly how it has been described. Heck, after divorce, it STILL plays in my head from time to time.

See, you can forgive. But forgetting is another whole different can of worms. Eventually, we replace those scenes with more happy ones. Well, if the WS works at it. Mine did but not with the passion you seem to have. So what you are doing is a good thing.

It takes time and two years is about right. BUT, some take longer. And some never get there. I remember Cruise and her husband. I don't see that in your deal. I twig that your husband needs you.

Larry

D-day was 3 years ago. I had to ask Hubby, I thought it had been longer.

I still wonder why these men I cheated with didn't stop me, or once they knew I was married just continued. Even when they realized that they knew Hubby or just didn't care. I'm not saying I did this with anyone who knew Hubby, he just knows a lot of people and they know who I am, I just don't know who they are. I don't know if that made any sense at all.

I just wish my Hubby could realize that I do love him. I am still trying to figure out the whys...why did I do this. Yes, my Hubby is very honorable and yes, I am very passionate. I just wish I could express it to him.

Every time I try to explain what I want from him, love, touch and such, he seems to feel he isn't what I need and brings up divorce and tries to make it sound like it's my idea. I can't imagine life without him, I can't imagine being without him.

02

My opinion: Until hubby changes his job circumstance, nothing will change in your relationship. Men identify with their jobs.

Sorry. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe Schoolbus or someone will correct me. You see the twinkle in his eye when he talks about his own business or whatever, right?

I do detect that he might be trying to make a move. I dunno why I think that, something you said, probably. He wouldn't be making the move unless he thought you would back him.

Larry

Thats true about forgetting guys. My wife was a serial cheater witha touch of spilt personality.

I remember an incident when we were dating that she pulled that should have sent mepacking. But I saw more in her than her actions. Should I have stayed and tried when she had so many problems? No. But I did. I took on more than I should have and paid the price.

But in the 25 years I knew her she recovered from the problems she had and we had better times. She would be here today if she really took it seriuos and got IC counselling.

Every time she would betray me with a drinking binge during the better times along with her flings and dissapearing acts it would take a couple years to get over it. It crushed my nuts and destroyed my confidance that I was doing my job to provide and protect her. I felt worthless.


She would allways come back and pretend she did nothing wroung. I could, and at times she could, see what she had done, was sorry, but would nevertell the whole truth and just chaulk it up to "sin nature". Yep she had issues and was not marriage material but she had other qualitys and instead of trust with my heart, she earned trust of everyone else and the children.

See she was not stupid, had guts, and she could be a great friend. She also hid an insecurity and fear that she never explored about why because the fear parlysed her.


I , we did what we thought was right at the time, When I was gone for two years because alcohol had taken its toll on me she hooked up again with God and it helped, But she would not let anyone help her in a practical way. I mean God is practical right? She was human like the rest of us right? Like so many ppl who have problems they think they will never be understood by others. Sometimes its fear and sometimes as weird as this sounds, its respect for what twisted them and hurt them.


You guys are different of course but my concern is that Hubby is going to live in that place guys go when they don't understand what happened.

I also so that twinkle when he talks about changing jobs.

I think it would be great for him to change jobs and would be a boost for his self-image. Maybe it would start a string of changes in his attutude also. Give him hope. Get him to see possibilitys in his life.

I am also one of those guys who relate who they are by what they do. Most important to me was if I was working and teaching my children responsibility as I showed them I loved them. I am not happy unless I am working and involved with life. I don't think most people are. We need to feel we make a difference.

When my family or marriage was having problems tho my job and attitude suffered. I would still perform and pay the bills but there is a difference between surviving and living. Its mostly an internal attitude. If H is unhappy with his marriage and you no amount of money or success will fix that. It might replace it but its not the same is it?

I would love to see your H get his diet and body in shape and have some positive successes in his life. I am more concerned that you and he connect agian so you can heal.

To me there is stuff you must do for you by yourself along with things you need to do for him, and the same for him towards you. I doubt that he is happy when he berates you or puts you down. He probably feels stuck emotionally. He needs hope.

Keep working on it W02 youll get there.

I also agree that a change in jobs might help him boost his self-esteem.

I additionally believe that you are fighting more than your own affairs here. You are fighting his previous marital histories - and you know that. You are fighting the movies from the other wives' affairs, which were triggered when you cheated.


What has to happen is more time - because the "typical" affair takes two years to process.....but this is NOT the typical affair, is it? You were with six other men. That's not something a person can really process easily, and the return to trusting you isn't going to come easily. Also, while the d-day may have happened 3 years ago, I must ask you to review honestly this question:

When would you say you actually came out of the fog, accepted FULL responsibility for the affairs, and completely started working on the marriage?

That would be the timeline for the beginning of recovery - not the d-day date. Because recovery actually begins when the WS takes that responsibility, begins working on the marriage, and stops blaming the BS for the affairs - it is when the WORK is beginnning on the marriage, not the d-day.

Why do I say this? Because you can have lots of d-days, if the WS strings out the truth-telling, for example, and that sets the timeline back to day one. Or, if there is contact with the OP, and that would set the timeclock back to day one. So d-day isn't really the time to start thinking, "Oh, our recovery began when the BS found out I had an affair."

The WS has to begin the work, join in, so to speak. When did you REALLY begin that?


Because, when you came here, even your first post was still full of justifications for your affairs.

You weren't fully comprehending the concept of your complete fault in the actions of yourself. Still, even, take a look at the ideas and content in your last post about the other men. You are still talking about how they "should have" stopped you.


No.

YOU should have stopped YOURSELF.

Only YOU control YOU.

ONLY. YOU. CONTROL. YOU.

The choice to have an affair - in each case - was yours. You chose, for whatever reason, to place yourself in situations that might lead to sex with men you knew were risky to be alone with. You chose.

I know this, because I have made similar bad choices.

To rewrite these situations now is dishonest to yourself, and will not lead to making healthier choices in the future - nor will it lead to creating a stronger trust between you and your husband or a more honest relationship with your him.


This sounds brutal, and tough, and mean. It isn't meant to be that way. I want you to take a very hard look at your own words, and to see yourself deflecting your own part of the blame toward the OM in your affairs. The OM did what they did


because of your invitation

and for no other reason.


Understand that your own boundaries and your own behavior led you to where you are.

Your husband sees this. He is looking for you to fully and completely understand this - and by your words and actions show him that you completely understand this. By consistently going back and "wondering" why the OM didn't prevent your behavior, you once again look to

EXTERNAL CONTROL over yourself.


THERE IS NO EXTERNAL CONTROL.


Schoolbus

I like that SB. There is no external control

Well outside of prison or slavery anyway and who want to go there anyways.

True on prison and slavery - but she was in neither - she was in a marriage, which is ELECTIVE. At least in most countries.

I didn't mean it quite like that "they should have stopped me" I was questioning the moral compass of these men. They shouldn't have accepted my advances was what I was getting at. I have a hard time wording things from time to time to get out what I am thinking. I am not blaming anyone but myself for what I did. It would have been nice had they not accepted my advances, but the state of mind I was in I would have found somebody.

I confessed to the cheating three years ago and I feel that I was out of the fog as in realizing I was wrong and wanting to be with my Hubby and that I did truly love him. It really felt as if a fog had lifted. I felt that I should confess to him, not only because it was the right thing to do, but I felt it should come from me.

I sometimes think that if enough men had refused me that maybe it would have given me enough time to come to my senses before I cheated. I just want to know why I did this. Even if there is bipolar disorder at work here, what made me think this was ok...how could I be this rotten evil person who could break her vows and crush her husband in every way imaginable. When I had confessed I was incredibly sorry, I was on the floor in a blubbering heap begging for him to forgive me and saying how sorry I was over and over and hoping he wasn't going to throw me out of the house for my dispicable behavior. I could very easily get in that place of how sorry I am (the falling in a heap sorry) if I really think about how badly I hurt him and how bad I wish I had never done something so terrible. I feel like I am tainted and that I can never go back to how he thought of me before, how he thought of me when he met me.

He says I have changed a lot from when he met me. The night I met him I didn't know if I was ever going to see him again and I could care less at that point. May be he miss read me. I was never obsessive about him like I had been other people. But, he was one of the very few men that I didn't wonder if they liked me. And then it got to the point where I didn't wonder if he loved me. Now, well, since the year before I cheated (around the time we moved to a new house, well new to us house) he quite saying he loved me. When he says it there is sound but no words. One of the last times he said it I asked him what was that and why did it sound more like "mooo" than "love you"? I haven't heard an audible "love you in about 5 years. He has said he doesn't like to say it.

When we went to MC it came up about how we never had a real wedding and he was trying to get across to Hubby that it was important to me and that may be we should do that at some point. But, if Hubby doesn't want to do something, Hubby IS NOT going to do it. He is stubborn. I think they only reason he has compromised a bit on the kissing thing is that he was tired of hearing about me talk about "compromising". But, you know I think I am to the point that I don't want to do it anymore if he doesn't. I am tired of not feeling wanted, I am tired of my feelings about things like the wedding going unvalidated and him not even making the effort to understand why it is important to me. I look at it as a fresh start and a second chance to prove to him that I really love him. I can't figure out how I can prove that I love him. I do the "gross things" for him...I help him when he's sick...I root for him....I try to show him I am on his side no matter what and that I want him to be happy now....I wish he could see what goes on in my head and how much I love him, how much he means to me. I wish he could see how happy I am when he's happy. I know that's a big thing for him, for me to be happy. He's told me many times to leave if I'm not happy. That makes me so depressed to hear that, it comes across to me like he doesn't want to meet any ENs, and that I am to be happy with him without any effort on his part.

I did get insight on how men think today and that a man can just sit and think about "nothing". And yes, that drives me nuts. I really need to make notes before we go because there is just so much that I don't know where to start. I would print stuff off from here if my printer would just work!

Ok, so I'm the paragraph police. Others have been before me like Pep.

You are obsessed with hubby. Will you still be when he does more things you like?

Come on 02, you know dang good and well you can go to WalMart and get laid in less than 30 minutes. Males often have no brains higher than their belts, just like some females. Someone will always take you up on your offer. Just wave it around and here they come. Forget about the guys who should have turned you down. That is an emotional blind canyon.

Larry

I am just becoming appalled at how most males behave and using the wrong thing to think with. (as well as some females) Do other people just not care what they are doing...Is there such thing as OM or OW fog? I mean I guess at the time I just didn't care what I was doing so why should they care?

Does anyone have any idea why I did this in the first place? Is bipolar just an excuse? I really do not want to make excuses for my self, I want to take responsibility for my actions and the horrible consequenses. I want to know how can I examine myself to honestly figure out why I did this. And if I am ever tempted again how I can fight this (heaven forbid I ever find myself ever tempted to do something as horrible as this again. I want to say I will never be tempted to even think about being tempted, but I want to be realistic, Hubby likes to say once a cheater, always a cheater and I would love to prove hi wrong). At least I think I am better equipped to handle my marital dis-satisfaction.

I feel horrible for even asking this, but I think it's important.

02:

You see my link. There are five pages of very heavy analysis and you seem ready for it. Can't post to it anymore, but I am available to answer any questions you want to ask. In Recovery is a forum where long and well reasoned (or not) posts are commonplace. It is where I used to hang out.

There were some really great posters who participated in that thread and even more who read every word. I miss graplin and some of the others. I played the role of needle to keep things going and they did, keep going and going and going

Me and Mark get teased about long posts. But that is the deal here in GQII. Doesn't stop me from posting them though. . .

Lemme see if I can answer your questions.


Hope that helps. And there are references in that thread pointing to other places you can pick up stuff that Harley doesn't address.

Larry