Hi I'm married for 4 years & Me & my husband are having some misunderstanding at the moment.
He went to a trip last year with a friend & after that trip things seem to change between us.. He mostly share our problems to this friend & we had quite some discussions. These leads me to, to have read his emails accidentally.
I had so many questions after that trip & most of his answers are confusing so I started to read his mails which I later found that most of the time he's communicating oft to his friend.
I once read that his friend is asking him to lie to me the next time they're going on holidays together. To tell me not to say that they're going back to the place they've been. I asked my husband about that & he denied it firmly that it's true.
Now I wanted to show him that mail but I'm not sure if I have to show it to him.
I'm afraid that he'll say that it's a joke can u please give me an advice?
Do u think it's right to do it?
I'm upset that he lied to me but he insisted he was not :-( please help

MaryAnne, welcome to MB.

Is your husband's "friend" male or female?

Which place did they go to?

Just tell him that you are very upset that he's lying to you, and you know that he's lying to you. And leave it at that.

What are you prepared to do if he continues to lie to you?

Thanks for your quick reply. His friend is a male.
I've told him already that it upsets me very much. And he told me that it might be I misunderstood their writings because of their dialect. They went to phukket last year. Last time I even saw him that he tried to hide the mails of his friend, they are communicating often thru mail & I confronted him about & afterwards he asked sorry & told me that he's afraid of my reaction. I asked him why, he told me that we might fight again . I still don't understand.
I asked him about the reply of his friend but he still denied it that it's not true....
I wanted to show him the mail but not sure if it will help us.
Btw, where can I find the Mim's story?
Thanks

MaryAnne:

Both of us know there are only TWO reasons for TWO men to go to Phuket, Thailand.

1. They are lovers and don't want anyone to know.
2. They are going for sex with Phuket girls who sell themselves.
3. He will deny, deny, deny, deny.

Are you in the Philippines? Malaysia?

Larry

@Larry: when they arrived he even told me their stories & what happened. But i don't know why I still feel upset with everything.
But he tends to explain to me that nothing happen there & I just have to trust him. Whenever we had discussion he will always say that he's upset because I'm giving him a feeling that I dont trust him. Even his mom told me that I shouldn't worry because she knows her son very much & he'll never do that to me because I'm his love of his life.
For me, i don't want to discuss about this trip & I want to move on. But what upset me more is that they want to go back again next year. I told him that I'm not happy about the idea & he was so angry at me. He told me that I'm very selfish & his interests & well being comes to second. :-(
when they arrived, they were telling their good experiences & while listening I told him I also want to go there with him & his replied was "no" & they started to look each other. I was surprised & shocked & i felt that they were hiding something. But i didn't mind it all. Until such time that i'm reading some of his mails & his friend is asking him to lie to me.
I was very angry & we had a big fight when I saw him clicking away his mail from his friend. that they were planning some trip again. He printed out the conversation they had but that was not the other mail I read.
We are actually undergoing some counselling now.

I feel sad & last time he asked me why & I told him about it but he still try to defend his friend, that his friend will not do that to him ask him to lie to me. But I read that part & sometimes I cant bear with it & really wanted to show that mail but not yet sure if its the right thing to do.
He was also not happy knowing that I was reading his mails. And he's using it sometimes as a stone throwing back at me telling me that it's not normal reading the mails of a partner. Now it seems that its my fault.

He is trying to manipulate you. You know exactly what he is doing and so does his mother. Don't be manipulated.

What country do you live in? Is it Singapore? You sound like Singapore or maybe Malaysia. Part of what you will have to do is help your husband overcome the social conditioning of your culture. If I don't know where you are, I cannot help you with this step.

And again, there are ONLY two reasons why TWO guys will go to Phuket on a vacation together, one without his WIFE.

You are venting.

That feels good for a while but it doesn't solve your problems with your husband. Are you ready to learn what you have to learn to stop the nonsense? You will have to work and study and apply what you learn.

Are you ready? Do you want a real marriage or do you want a fake one where wives are expected to let their husbands do whatever they want?

Larry

@Larry: Thanks for the inputs. I'm really having a hard time right now to understand all of these and I'm trying to regain the trust to my husband. I told him that I'm doing that he said that it seems our counseling is not helping me because I still having the same reaction. I told him that we've been twice (2 hr session) in our counseling and it seems he is giving up because he's telling me that it's not helping me at all whereas he is trying to do everything for us.

I'm also confused because the last time we had a talk, because he asked me why I'm so sad and upset & I told him that I was upset because during our 3 week holidays, he was always texting his friend which i've never seen him that before. Every thing that what we've been up to, was being reported to his friend and even our small fights. If we are somewhere he was telling it to his friend. I told him about that and he complained that I'm controlling him, whom he gonna text. I told him its not that which friends he should text, but the act of texting his friend all the time make me upset because I can see that he was not happy with his holidays with me and it seems his minds were always on his friend. I thought that holidays could help us build the love, respect and trust again but it seems it became worst.
I'm quite afraid now to talk to him anything I feel because in the end, he would tell me that I'm always looking for problems which are not there. And it's been always back to me that it's my fault.

I was also upset about the email of his friend, which I wanted to show to my husband but not yet sure if it will bring good to us.

And during that talk he told me if I'm not happy anymore then there's no use of saving our marriage because I'm not trusting him. Does he want now to end the marriage? but he just want it to come from me?
We are on counseling now, and I was surprised with his reply that if I'm not happy anymore, we can separate. I asked him back if he needs his single life again, why he imply this kind of suggestion, then he was angry at me again because I'm asking some knock down question. He told me he doesn't want his single life, but if I'm not happy with him we can separate.

I would appreciate any guys opinion about this. If its a men's way of saying that "yes i want to end the relationship with you but i want it to come from you because i don't want to be held responsible about the decision"... Is it?
Please help me.

I wish I could help you more. But I cannot unless I know what country you live in.

You have not learned enough and you are asking me a culturally loaded question that I cannot answer because I have no idea what culture you live in.

Sorry.

Larry

Hi Larry I sent you email, have you had the time to check.
Thanks I used the email u have in your signature.
Thanks pls let me know if you got it

Do not show him the email.
You know he is lying.
He knows he is lying.
Showing him the email will only encourage him to put a password on his email and computer, or open a secret email account that you do not know about. Then you will not know at all what is going on.

Instead, keep your mouth shut and do NOT reveal your source of information. If you can, put a key logger on the computer and have the reports sent to you. Find out if he is in a relationship with this man or why they want to vacation together and why he is lying to you. Keep copies of all the information you gather, but do not let your H know you have it yet.

There are also ways to spy on his texts, hopefully someone will give you information about that.

Read about Love Busters (LBs) and eliminate all of yours.
Read about Emotional Needs (ENs) and try to meet his top three.

Spy on him and after you know what is going on, expose. Do NOT tell him you are going to expose. Do NOT threaten him with exposure. Just collect your information and then expose.

Notes on exposure:
--Exposure targets
Anyone with influence over your WS or the marriage. WS' parents, siblings, best friend, children if they're over 4. OP's siblings, parents, spouse. Your priest or similar if you're religious. Their employer if they work together. Work exposure should be done *in writing* to the head of HR, the CEO, and WS' boss. All of them should know the others were copied; this makes it harder for them to toss the letter into the trash and forget about it.

--Exposure message
Use a formal letter for work exposure. Everything else is short and sweet: "OP and WS are having an affair. I love WS and I am committed to doing whatever it takes to repair our marriage and make it better than ever. I'd appreciate any advice you might have." The exposure message is not vengeful; it is a message of love.

--No warning
Do NOT threaten to expose, do not tell WS you're going to expose. Just do it. If WS has advance warning, they will tell their friends and family "We are having trouble in our marriage. BS is controlling and angry. BS won't talk to me, and won't listen to me. BS is possessive and jealous, and accuses me of insane things. Sometimes I'm scared for my physical well-being, (s)he's changed that much. Thank goodness I have friends to talk to, otherwise I don't think I could bear the abuse. OP has been especially helpful in offering insights into how a member of the opposite sex would see things. I just hope we can make it but I'm not sure we can." How do you think your exposure is going to sound after an oscar winning performance like that?

--Exposure after-effects
Your WS is going to be furious. You will hear predictable things like "I can never trust you again. I was going to dump OP and reconcile but you've blown any chance of that. I hate you. I'm filing for D." Don't EVEN pay attention to this stuff. Your WS is just angry because the super-fun super-secret affair is suddenly looking downright tawdry and the fun is turning into a nightmare. Just ignore most of it. If your WS tries to talk about divorce, say "I don't do divorce, I do marriage." Then change the subject. If your WS tries to pick a fight, tell them you'd very much like to discuss things when you can both be calm and rational, and leave the room if you have to. If she says things like "How could you do this?!" tell her you'll do whatever it takes to save your marriage.

Thanks turtlehead for the reply.
That was also what I thought but i'm quite tired of getting confused :-( it's just draining my energy. Sometimes its quite difficult to deal if u know that ur partner lied to you or even just white lie :-(

I'm also not sure if I have to discuss it with the counselor.

Btw im having a hard time to figure out some abbreviation.
Like : OP, WS .... Not really sure what do they mean?

Would appreciate the help. Thanks

OP- Other person.
WS-Wayward spouse(the spouse having an affair) can be changed to WW or WH depending on the sex of the person.
BS- Betrayed Spouse
OW and OM also Other woman, Other Man

POSOW/M Piece of [censored] Other woman/man

I hope this helps.

I'm not a guy, but I can tell you what he really said: He wants to enjoy being both married *and* single, and he is trying to bully and scare you into backing off and not saying anything about it. He's threatening to end the marriage if you don't let him enjoy his single life on the side.

Please don't get the idea that your Wayward Husband is somehow trying to "choose" between being married and being single. He wants all the benefits of BOTH and he's hoping he can bully you into going along with it.

Please don't fall for this. He can't have his cake and eat it too, unless you want to settle for that kind of half life.

This is what most cheaters do because this is what most cheaters want.

LINK TO ACRONYMS & ABBREVIATIONS

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2338067#Post2338067

Maryanne

First of all, thank you for the information. That explains almost everything. I used to be part of a forum that discussed multi-cultural marriages mostly between men who are from developed countries and women who are from less developed countries and the problems associated with such marriages.

Some of what I learned then applies to your situation.

Please read carefully the points that Turtle and others have given you.

1. There is one and only one reason why a male goes to Phuket either by himself or with his buddies (without his wife), and you should know the reason. He is going to have sex with the local prostitutes. He is NOT going there to enjoy drinking and party and the beaches although he might do those things. He is going to have sex with the local whores, period. I know what Phuket is and so should you. I suspect you know.

2. Adultery is against the law in your country. Rarely is anyone arrested for adultery unless the police want to blackmail them for money. But adultery being against the law is part of your culture. If the police put in jail all of those who do adultery in your country, there would not be enough people left out of jail to run the country.

3. Divorce is against the law in your country. Divorce is the last thing someone in your country thinks about when they are having marriage problems and the first thing someone thinks about in your husband's country of origin when, for example, he or she gets caught cheating or finds out that their husband or wife has had an affair.

4. You husband has committed adultery. His friend knows all about it. He wants to do it again, soon. He has no shame. Look up the definition for shame.

5. There are three probable reasons why he married you. I will not discuss why you married him. That is for you to say.

6. Reason number one. The man wants to marry a woman who is upscale from what he can probably marry in his home country. He wants a woman who is better looking, or who is more intelligent, or is much younger, or whatever other fantasy he has. And often, a man is able to do that, at least in his mind. This only becomes a problem if the new wife gets to the new country and discovers she can do better than the man she married to get there.

7. Reason number two. The man wants to marry a woman he can more easily control or one who is subservient to him and his wishes. As we used to say on the forum I mentioned, he wants a maid or a slave who gives him good sex. These kinds of men do not get much respect among those who are involved in multi-cultural relationships. Many of these types of men are from Europe and while not rare for them to be from the United States and Canada, they are the exception. Most men from here in the States fall into the number six reason.

8. Reason number three. The man and woman meet in school or other place, get married and have a normal life of adjustments. Many times the man will think in terms of 6 or 7 above or not as the case may be.

9. Very often, the man's mother will not like the fact that her son married someone from another culture. Be careful.

Your husband has committed adultery. He is trying to control you with his words. He wants to manipulate you so you will let him do what he wants. He does not care what you want or need. This is normal for those who commit adultery and the multi-cultural issues have nothing to do with it except when you think about the background of such men. The extra parts of your situation I have detailed for whatever use you can make of them to figure things out.

If you live in his home country, then your next step is to see a Lawyer, if your money allows or read on the internet if you have no money to spare. You need to know what your options are.

Your husband has suggested divorce. Ok, then you must consider that option and find out what that means since you are from a country where divorce is against the law. You may be surprised how much power you really have. Be sure that you also explore what your options are in terms of you continuing to stay in the country where you are after a possible divorce.

You cannot save a marriage by yourself. If your husband is unable or unwilling to work with you, and you cannot force him, then your only option is going to be that you become a meek little mouse who lets her husband run all over her, or someone strong who takes care of herself and her children and finds happiness without the controlling jerk she married. Do keep in mind that if you move back home, if indeed you are living in his country, then he can stop paying you child support and there is little you can about it.

Remember, the only person you control is yourself. There is no magic wand to make things better. Venting about what he does will solve nothing.

All the best

Larry

MaryAnne

Please post what you sent me here after you clean it up to remove information you wish to remain confidential. This is a collaborative forum where lots of people can help you, not just me. There are things you said that lots of people can help you with.

Oh, and please see a Lawyer as soon as you can. If you are without funds, you can get a little bit of help from the Internet. It is important for you to understand your options so you can better cope. If you get proof of what he did, you can then go the route of exposure. Until you get proof, he can twist things around.

Larry

Hi Larry thank you very much for the inputs.
I can't believe that I'm reading this now :-(
I'm trying to process everything to understand it.
Because last night we had discussions again :-(

Just some points to clear:
Last month we had our emotional talk he told me that, "he was already on the edge of divorcing me last year."
I'm not sure Larry if its the same as: he was suggesting it to me as what you mentioned in your advice.

I'll post my other concern later. Last night we had a fight again.

He was out with his friend last night and before he went, he told me in the afternoon that he'll be home by 11PM.
He sent me sms before their said meeting time telling me how much he love me and he's thinking of me. And he was sorry that he forgot to give me my bread.
I replied an hour after when I was on the way home.

Before when he's out with his friend he's texting me most of the time what their doing and that they are having dessert for me etc... and even if he's on his way home, he still let me know that he's on his way home.

What disturbs me most was this: Last Sat we arrived from our 3 week holidays, from where I come from, we visited my family & I thought it's also a way for us to reconnect, rebuild respect etc...during that trip, i noticed that something is different & he was most of the time texting his friend and even wrote him email what we've been up to, and telling his friend how much he misses him etc..he even wrote that we had some fights again and he will tell the whole story when we come back. It irritates me most of the time when I heard him saying that he's texting his friend. I didn't complain that time because I don't want that our holidays will be affected because of that.
But lately, even we were in the airport he's very interested to text his friend. I kept quiet and didn't mind it all. And during our holidays he already informed me that Mon evening they're going to meet up (his friend and other friend).
I was just surprised because for me, we just arrived and the first day of the week, he can't wait to meet his friends and I felt that, it was the most priority in his schedule when we arrived. Before he was not like that.
I was upset and I told him about that, then he started to lose his temper and he was angry of my reaction. He told me again that I'm controlling him and why I can't be happy for him.

So we had discussions and I can feel that his not respecting my feelings anymore. He's not listening what I'm trying to say.

And last night I replied to his sms and I told him that I'll wait for him. Usually if he's on the train he's telling me that he's on his way. But yesterday he didn't.

When he arrived I wanted not to tell him because he just arrived. I asked him why he didn't send me sms that he's on the way home. He told me that he was talking to his friend while they were in the train. And he just saw my reply when they arrived in our city. I told him how I felt about it and told him that during our trip even when we were together he's also checking his mobile and sent sms to his friend. Now that he's with his friend he didn't check it until they arrived in our city.Then he started to shout and asked me what I really wanted from him. And why am I controlling him whom to text and whom not to text. I felt bad. He said if its always like that, he doesn't feel like going home with me.
While we're having discussion, he was washing his glass and a plastic plate, then he threw the plastic plate in the sink as hard as he can, to signify that he was very angry.
I didn't understand. I wanted to have a calm talk with him and he started to shout and get hysterical. I asked him if we still discuss it and he said yes. So we started to throw hurting words again. And I was also very emotional I forgot to have a break :-(

He blamed me that I was reading his email and I should be judge that I was cheating at him because I did it behind his back. I didn't understand :-(

Then it was my fault again. He mentioned again that if we are always like this, our marriage will not be successful.

This weekend we will have coaching again.......

Here is the other post I wanted to share:

Last year when they went back from holidays, they told me how beautiful it is there and the bad reputation is not really true. So while they were telling me this I was excited and told him that I also want to see the place with him. And they started to look each other and he was very firm of what he said, "No", i felt it was a slap on my face... and I started to ask why... He explained that he don't want to spend holidays with me there for a week and we will just fight. I was surprised why he has this kind of imagination if we have holidays there together. I know we had history about him looking to asians whenever he sees one. And sometimes he'll look at them even we're having a talk and our talk will be interrupted because he's giving much attention to it. I told him there is nothing wrong looking at these asians as long as he knows when is the right time to do it. It irritates me sometimes because even we're having a great talk and if he sees asians he'll get destructed and I don't understand why. It was never a problem for me before. I was happy if he can chit-chat with other asians. But lately I noticed that if he sees one, he's destructed very much. I told him about that, and it was also one of our fights because whenever I share my thoughts and how I feel, he'll always told me that, I'm always looking for problems. He then told me that I should learn to let go and just accept it and forget it and not to delve too much for how many weeks and get sad and get lonely. This sometimes makes me sad because it seems he doesn't understand and listen to how I feel :-(

Anyway I'm thinking of writing his friend to stop the stocks his doing to me and of course I also wanted to let him know how much disappointed I am about his behavior of trying to break our marriage. I'm not sure if that is the right thing to do. I'm so down at the moment and I can't think rationally with all of these things happening to me. Maybe you could enlightened me about it.

One thing more, my husband is not happy the last time when I said that I don't like the idea of having a separate holidays this time. Because I don't want to experience again what we had last year. He was very sad about this idea and he felt that I'm controlling him. He then told me that his interests and well being are always come to second. He knows that I love him and he loves me but he don't understand why I can't accept the fact that he also wants to go once a year holidays with his friend. Maybe I wasn't able to mention this, during their trip on their last night, they didn't sleep and they stayed in the bar until 5am. He even told me their stories that during that night, he paid a drink of a prostitute. Which freaks me out. At first he was sorry about it he didn't know that its really a big problem for me. But then he don't understand why I reacted like that because in the first place, he said that nothing happens. And he told me that the way I react seems that he brought the girl in the hotel and he had sex which was not really the case. He told me that it made him sad the way I react because it only show that I don't trust him. .... When his mother said, that it's just ok because these prostitutes are also human, and when I asked my husband if he's still going to do that, he said yes. Although before his mother said that, he already told me how sorry he was and he will not do it again....but then after that conversation with his mother, he's using that sometimes as a reason that these people are actually also human and he sometimes try to mimic me like "oh yea, i paid a drink of the prostitute and it's very bad...." with a teasing tone of his voice which is kind of angry but not, for me sounds like his making fun of how I feel.

Anyway, just a little background of my story. I've rea here, that i'll not show the mails to him, where I meant that his friend asked him to lie to me. But he said it was just a joke and he imposed that I actually don't understand their dialect and the joke behind it. He already knew that I was reading his mails and he was not happy about that. He told me that if I want to read his mails I have to tell him and don't do it behind his back.

Please also tell me, about this. My husband said that reading your partner's mails & sms is not normal. He imposed to me what I did was wrong. And he should be more angry than that. Because it only shows again that I don't trust him and its hurting him a lot. I told him if he's not guilty or nothing to hide, he shouldn't feel bad about it even if I go and sneak out on his email. But he imposed to me that here in their country nobody is doing that. But during our coaching, we were advised that I can read his emails and sms to show that he's not hiding. But the way he understand it, that it's only a temporary thing. I don't know why he can't understand the whole situation. And his usual attack to me is, he's not also reading my mails. So why am I doing it to him?.... Please tell me if i'm very controlling to my husband. He always attacked me about trust. That I don't trust him, why am I doing this. I don't understand... :-(

Is it normal reading your partner's mails & sns?

Thanks.
Looking forward to your advice

MaryAnne

If you are still reading here, I missed the above post.


Simple answer. You are not controlling. You want to be his partner, not his maid who cleans house. There is no problem with trust for someone who does not have anything to hide, yet he hides and lies and that is not the way someone is a partner acts.

It may be time for you to tell your husband that he married a real woman who wanted a partner and who was prepared to be a partner. He is trying to live a fantasy where he has a wife and children in one location, but he goes to other places to strut around and act as if he is not married. In other words, he does not honor the promises he made in the marriage.

It is simple: When he does not honor his wife, he does not honor himself. But he is too immature to understand that.

Larry