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hi! this is my first post on marriagebuilders even though i must admit to being a lurker for the past year to the forums.
i often feel i can solve all of my own problems and am overly self-sufficient maybe even to the point of narcissism. i am sure this hasn't made it easy for my husband-all right we're not actually married (thought we didn't need external validation of our relationship) but have two biological sons-8 and 9 yearolds respectively and our 16 year old daughter that has known this man to be her dad since she was 5. we have lived together full time in the same house raising kids as husband and wife(but not legally) since 1999.
i have been independant and have exhibited many independant behaviors. but i was loyal thru it all. still am. and while he has had multiple affairs in the past, that really does not seem our biggest problem anymore. i am willing to work on it in any way necessary
he wants to forget it and ignore it seems like to me. although he has begun to write out a book of secrets after i threatened to leave him if he didn't attempt to talk to me about the affairs. he needs to think about why this happened and share it with me or i can never be happywith him.
there are recurrent angry outbursts by him, namecalling, cruel words- sometimes actions as exhibited by his 4 past affairs he's sorta remorseful but very prideful still.
there is a failure to share. i have been afraid to write here because i feel the advice i would get would be to leave. i feel this would not be the best solution because i would still have to deal with him for the kids sake. i would rather be able to do it in a sane and rational way.i thought things were getting better, but i wonder if i am just deluding myself. now i have a hand injury and am reliant on him for care- only for a short-term. my right hand was cut in a kitchen accident 3 days ago and is pretty useless for the next couple weeks. today, i was swore at, called names, made fun of for poor self care. i am reliant on him to straighten my clothes and comb my hair. now i don't feel i can trust him. i'm alone now as he went to a meeting for the non-profit we both belong to. he is just breaking my trust with his angry outbursts. i know this has been hard on him; having to take care of meals and dishes and the kids for the past 3 days- but it is only 3 days. what if we split up? which i seriously think about doing every time he calls me names and screams at me and physically intimidates me in any way. i don't need to be treated like this. i deserve respect. i am getting too old for his drama and trying to fix him. my kids are too and they are learning from him.
over the year, i have tried to apply marriage builder principles to my own relationship that is troubled in a way that is even deeper than the infidelity i discovered 3 years ago that made it all impossible to ignore.
i think i need some help. my family doesn't know what to say to me. they are too nice to say maybe. i need some kicks in the pants. because i keep putting up with too much
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he called me [censored], dependant, invalid. i told him to stop chatting over mundane [censored] on IM and get to work. he is self -employed on the computer. a programmer. which also has made having affairs- which extensively utilized the internet- so easy and has caused me quite a lot of unease in our recovery as he is a computer genius and i am sort of an anti-technology luddite. but i am reaching out here
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i just don't think he loves me like he should or he wouldn't treat me this way and that is probably the answer i should live with and move on. he tries- but not so much. he always seems to be trying to prove that i am not the boss of him. i just wanted some help getting the kids fed and him to get to paying work. instead of wake up las, read news, read game forums- gaming nut- do volunteer game stuff that gets him status, chat on im.
all the while, telling the kids and me he doesn't have time for anything but work. i was stating that this is obviously untrue, when he started yelling and being angry.
i went and hid in my cave-our shared bedrrom that he has finally learned to stay out of when i shut the door. i needed to establish this as a boundary to get away from his scary angry outbursts. i then took i long bath- he told me i stunk. he said such mean things and got so tence and angry , he obviously has not enough repect for me. i don't know how to change this.
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sorry for the swear words. i'll watch myself. they weren't very bad ones
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mamasita, you do not have a marriage - not legally and not emotionally. You are a single mother with four kids, with your "husband" being one of the kids.
You will have to decide if you want a grown-up relationship with a man or if you just want to play house with this child. He's fine the way it is and has no reason to change. If you want your life to change, you will have to be the one to change it. I can guarantee you, he's not going to change a thing.
Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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mulan-
thank-you for your response
what do you think i need to do?
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just playing house? harsh.
i have been living full-time with this guy raising 3 children for 11 years. he watched our babies be born, he took care of them when they were sick, he has provided materially for them. sure, he has been a jerk in many ways and neglected us and played the fence, but in the end, he has always come home with the exception of a few terrible nights. and a lot about our lifestyle has changed since d-day.
to say our relationship doesn't count because we are both not christians. i refuse to believe it and let him off that easy. there was a commitment regardless. there was betrayal, otherwise why did he have to lie and hide for so long. it still hurts. what we had felt like marriage to me and i, at least, treated it with the same sanctity.
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just playing house? harsh.
i have been living full-time with this guy raising 3 children for 11 years. he watched our babies be born, he took care of them when they were sick, he has provided materially for them. sure, he has been a jerk in many ways and neglected us and played the fence, but in the end, he has always come home with the exception of a few terrible nights. and a lot about our lifestyle has changed since d-day.
to say our relationship doesn't count because we are both not christians. i refuse to believe it and let him off that easy. there was a commitment regardless. there was betrayal, otherwise why did he have to lie and hide for so long. it still hurts. what we had felt like marriage to me and i, at least, treated it with the same sanctity. Huh?? Who said that? 
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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hi! this is my first post on marriagebuilders even though i must admit to being a lurker for the past year to the forums.
i often feel i can solve all of my own problems and am overly self-sufficient maybe even to the point of narcissism. i am sure this hasn't made it easy for my husband-all right we're not actually married (thought we didn't need external validation of our relationship) but have two biological sons-8 and 9 yearolds respectively and our 16 year old daughter that has known this man to be her dad since she was 5. we have lived together full time in the same house raising kids as husband and wife(but not legally) since 1999.
i have been independant and have exhibited many independant behaviors. but i was loyal thru it all. still am. and while he has had multiple affairs in the past, that really does not seem our biggest problem anymore. i am willing to work on it in any way necessary
he wants to forget it and ignore it seems like to me. although he has begun to write out a book of secrets after i threatened to leave him if he didn't attempt to talk to me about the affairs. he needs to think about why this happened and share it with me or i can never be happywith him.
there are recurrent angry outbursts by him, namecalling, cruel words- sometimes actions as exhibited by his 4 past affairs he's sorta remorseful but very prideful still.
there is a failure to share. i have been afraid to write here because i feel the advice i would get would be to leave. i feel this would not be the best solution because i would still have to deal with him for the kids sake. i would rather be able to do it in a sane and rational way.i thought things were getting better, but i wonder if i am just deluding myself. now i have a hand injury and am reliant on him for care- only for a short-term. my right hand was cut in a kitchen accident 3 days ago and is pretty useless for the next couple weeks. today, i was swore at, called names, made fun of for poor self care. i am reliant on him to straighten my clothes and comb my hair. now i don't feel i can trust him. i'm alone now as he went to a meeting for the non-profit we both belong to. he is just breaking my trust with his angry outbursts. i know this has been hard on him; having to take care of meals and dishes and the kids for the past 3 days- but it is only 3 days. what if we split up? which i seriously think about doing every time he calls me names and screams at me and physically intimidates me in any way. i don't need to be treated like this. i deserve respect. i am getting too old for his drama and trying to fix him. my kids are too and they are learning from him.
over the year, i have tried to apply marriage builder principles to my own relationship that is troubled in a way that is even deeper than the infidelity i discovered 3 years ago that made it all impossible to ignore.
i think i need some help. my family doesn't know what to say to me. they are too nice to say maybe. i need some kicks in the pants. because i keep putting up with too much
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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It might have "felt" like a marriage, but feelings are not truth. This deal wasn't even serious enough for you to go down to the courthouse so you can't expect us to take it any more seriously than you have. If I go pick out a car on the dealers lot and tell him I am "committed" and never pay anything or sign any papers, am I committed or am I talking crap?
Living together situations are not committments and are typically very abusive, as you have learned the hard way. They are month to month agreements until something better comes along. They are fraught with abuse.
If I were you, I would separate from him and get into some good solid marriage counseling to see if you can both learn some new habits. Then, if he changes, you could consider marrying him. As it is now, though, your boyfriend is not committed and is in the habit of abusing you. That is a horrendous lesson to teach to kids.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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From the newsletter, When a couple live together before marriage, they tend to be "renters." By that I mean that they view their relationship much as they would renting an apartment. If something goes wrong in an apartment, the landlord is expected to fix it -- if it needs paint, the landlord paints it; if it needs repairs, the landlord does the repairing. In other words, the renter is not responsible for making the apartment suitable for living -- the landlord is responsible. And if the apartment is not repaired, the tenant isn't expected to fix the apartment himself, he simply moves to another apartment if he doesn't like the one he is renting.
In the same way, couples who live together before marriage do not expect to make many changes to accommodate their lovers. The relationship is a test of how "livable" their relationship is, and if they were to find it uncomfortable, or if one were to complain much, it would mean that they would not be right for each other.
Those who live together before marriage tend to ignore conflicts until they become intensely negative. That's why these relationships are notoriously abusive (as reported in a recent Justice Department study on domestic abuse). If these couples eventually marry, they carry their renter's agreement into marriage, with the same tendency to ignore conflicts until they build up. Since the renter's agreement does not promote healthy adjustment in marriage, or the sustaining of romantic love -- the vast majority of these marriages end in divorce.
On the other hand, when couples marry before they live together, they tend to be "buyers." Much like buying a house, these couples realize that if anything needs fixing, they will have to fix it -- the sooner, the better. Their marriage is not a test of how livable their relationship is, but rather, it's a commitment to make their relationship livable. That means that when a problem first surfaces, they go right to work fixing it, knowing that if they don't fix it soon, it can lead to an even bigger problem later.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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(thought we didn't need external validation of our relationship)
You make yourself very clear.
I will respect your wishes.
You don't want/need external validation.
No external validation offered by me.
Best of luck to you and yours.
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i guess i didn't expect to be treated like i don't even have a marriage to build on. i guess i should have seen this coming. this is marriage builders so you all are obviously pro-marriage which is mostly a christian institution i think.
i feel i am part of a committed relationship. promises were made. it was more than amonth to month agreement.
I AM a renter, and i am a little offended to have you home-owners tell me how i don't have to be responsible for my home- even if i do not own it. i cannot afford to buy a home, i have little support in this world. i would like nothing better. i am very centered on having aloving comfortable home for my family.
i do not always get to write. i really only get a chance in the morning before things get going. so please do not think i am ignoring your comments if i do not repond immediately. i am still paying attention.
i just don't get this. why all this negative energy toward my real relationship. i wanted some helpful advice how to get us communicating. we do not want to ignore our issues anymore. we both want to be non-conflict avoiders and have been practicing over the past year. we may be an exception to your rule. we may make it. i don't rely on all your validation(i don't hardly know you) enough to leave now . tell my kids that our relationship is not real. they never even knew we weren't married until recently. we are there mama and papa. we are a family. it is not just a dream.
we have put alot of work into our relationship, unlike our slum-lord landlords and "THEIR" houses. that they never even see but when they come for the rent.
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i guess i didn't expect to be treated like i don't even have a marriage to build on. i guess i should have seen this coming. this is marriage builders so you all are obviously pro-marriage which is mostly a christian institution i think.
i feel i am part of a committed relationship. promises were made. it was more than amonth to month agreement.
I AM a renter, and i am a little offended to have you home-owners tell me how i don't have to be responsible for my home- even if i do not own it. i cannot afford to buy a home, i have little support in this world. i would like nothing better. i am very centered on having aloving comfortable home for my family.
i do not always get to write. i really only get a chance in the morning before things get going. so please do not think i am ignoring your comments if i do not repond immediately. i am still paying attention.
i just don't get this. why all this negative energy toward my real relationship. i wanted some helpful advice how to get us communicating. we do not want to ignore our issues anymore. we both want to be non-conflict avoiders and have been practicing over the past year. we may be an exception to your rule. we may make it. i don't rely on all your validation(i don't hardly know you) enough to leave now . tell my kids that our relationship is not real. they never even knew we weren't married until recently. we are there mama and papa. we are a family. it is not just a dream.
we have put alot of work into our relationship, unlike our slum-lord landlords and "THEIR" houses. that they never even see but when they come for the rent. Be clear on a few things that we're trying to tell you: 1. This is not a Christian site. I am Jewish. 2. This is a MARRIAGE building site. You are not married. 3. We are not talking about your type of housing when we say you are a 'renter'. We are saying you are an EMOTIONAL renter, meaning you aren't invested enough in your relationship to commit to legal marriage. 4. You DON'T have a marriage to build on. You're not married. 5. The negative energy you are sensing is because you are a non-married person looking for marital help on a marriage building site. It's sort of like you've walked into the wrong meeting rooom, when the language is a little different than the one you speak. You're not going to understand it all. Having said all that: you can still get a lot of good info about relationships on this site. Just remember that it is intended for people who have committed to marrying their partner and are trying to strengthen their marriage.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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also, with your car analogy-
i own an old suburban we bought together 6 years ago- $600 cash. i own it . i paid for it. just not thru the traditional channels. does this mean it is not my truck or it is not real. does it mean i do not have commitment to fix it when it breaks.
in the same way. my relationship is real- and i have to fix it when it breaks- or scrap it. and i do not give up easy. iam not just slinking away with out putting in my best effort.my kids ARE watching and learning and i am very aware and i care. sometimes he does too. sometimes more than others. he has got a terrible temper- not just with me.
it was worse when he had a good paying job with insurance because he was prescribed adderol- which is legal speed in my mind. all hell broke loose when he was on that stuff- it was 3 years. that is when the affairs commenced.
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pepper- don't be mean. i need help. i know you have good advice. you are one of my heroes on this board. i think youre usually right on. i believe in marriagebuilders. it has helped us already. even though we aren't actually married. i need to leave based on that?? abuse yes, i can see that. but on a piece of paper from the courthouse?
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Mamasita, the only advice I know to give you is to pick up the book Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders and skip to the chapter about the "Curse of Living Together before Marriage." There is some good information there about living together that is followed by a chapter that explains how to overcome this curse. There is a world of difference between living together and being married and I think this book will help you see that. Best of luck to you. 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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i was committed . but i do not want to be hurt anymore. he SAYS he is committed. i don't know i f believe it or not tho.
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Ok I can relate here a little
Being I have been with my BF for 11 years
He moved out for 3 months had A with OW from work
since has changed jobs...
has been back here since May of 2009
Most here will tell you
they feel because you are not married
It is being a renter
But I can understand being I have reasons
and reasons I believe to be good ones that I won't get married...
we are raising a 5 year old
Not his my grand daughter
but he has been with her since birth..
she loves him he loves her and is a good father to her
spends a lot of time with her
plays with her every day after work takes her to the park things like that...
But I have to say to you being I am kind of in your shoes..
If he was to be yelling at me
calling me names and so on.
He would be so out of here !!!!
I would never allow that in front of my grand daughter
or myself...
You have to draw a line in the sand somewhere.
that is so not good for the kids..
Not saying my BFs A was good for us here it wasn't
But I take into account the good he does here which is much
If he was to have another A he would be history in this house
and if there was fighting or name calling he would be history..
The affair I have had to deal with...
I don't trust him that there is still contact...
My grand daughter knows nothing of that..
we never talk about it in front of her
we don't fight in front of her
we don't even really fight
If I were in your shoes with this going on
to be really honest
He would be out...
this is just my take on this
I am sure most here will not agree with me
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