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Originally Posted by Pepperband
Does WW fear she might lose you?

Hard to say. I think she is very afraid to lose my income as she does not work. She is also afraid of the impact of divorce on the boys.

At the same time, she is also having serious withdrawals from OM.

When I told her I had spoken to an attorney to begin the divorce process, she got very afraid. The next day I told her I still thought we could save our marriage and she said, "maybe we should put the brakes on the divorce."


BH(Me)=40
WXW=38
ILYBNILWY: 8/09
DDAY: 8/31/09
Two boys: 8,7
Divorced 3/23/2011

Don't let your eyes refuse to see. Don't let your ears refuse to hear. Or you ain't never gonna shake this sense of sadness. --Ray Lamontagne
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"ENABLERS" is a very good topic for discussion. Often one reason why exposure is ineffective in ending the affair is that the WS is surrounded by enablers rather than people who will call him/her out and enact consequences. I will speak to the WW situation here...

I have posted many times how I believe that most WW-affairs hinge largely on the OM. If he dumps her (usually via exposure that threatens something important to him -- his marriage, job, etc), the affair ends and R then becomes possible. If not, the affair continues and the WW pursues/forces divorce in almost all cases. Rarely does the WW leave an affair-in-progress.

The odds of that go from very unlikely to darn-near-hopeless if the WW has enablers for friends and family. The ideal people (from the WW's twisted perspective) to have around are friends/family who are:

"non-confrontational"
sychophantic
spineless
wishy-washy
"go along to get along"
afraid to stand up to the WW
believe in "whatever makes you happy"
Unwilling to risk "losing" the WW (dependent or needy)
Easily coapted and gullible
don't want to "get involved" kind of people
pre-disposed to join in scapegoating the BH

My WW had three such women in her life--the three that were closest to her--2 older sisters and one close friend. No, I do not blame any of them for the situation. They did not "cause" the affair nor could any of them have forced its end. I know all three of them were actively lied to.

But, and I knew all 3 very well, I was astonished by how casually they accepted and validated WW's affair and how flippantly they dismissed me and our marriage. All 3 were people we socialized with and were guests in each other's homes and 2 of the 3 were people we actively vacationed with repeatedly for years.

I do consider all of them "accomplices after-the-fact" and have had nothing to do with them since. The friend, being a "front-row, center" member of my church stands out as particularly hypocritical, esp. as she entertained WW/OM at her home right under my nose and in front of her three daughters.

I know my WW, like most cheaters, sought out the company and approval of those she knew wouldn't confront her or "ask any hard questions" and avoided or discarded all those she knew would.


xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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Originally Posted by SDCW_man
"non-confrontational"
sychophantic
spineless
wishy-washy
"go along to get along"
afraid to stand up to the WW
believe in "whatever makes you happy"
Unwilling to risk "losing" the WW (dependent or needy)
Easily coapted and gullible
don't want to "get involved" kind of people
pre-disposed to join in scapegoating the BH

My WW has at least two Enablers. One is most certainly of the Unwilling to risk "losing" the WW (dependent or needy. I actually think she and my WW have a very negative co-dependant relationship.

And the other enabler is more of the "I'll support you whatever decision you make" types.

If my WW was destroying her family with drug use, would they support her actions? What makes destroying a family via an affair a supportable action?


BH(Me)=40
WXW=38
ILYBNILWY: 8/09
DDAY: 8/31/09
Two boys: 8,7
Divorced 3/23/2011

Don't let your eyes refuse to see. Don't let your ears refuse to hear. Or you ain't never gonna shake this sense of sadness. --Ray Lamontagne
Joined: Mar 2009
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Originally Posted by TryingEverything
[quote=SDCW_man]


And the other enabler is more of the "I'll support you whatever decision you make" types.

If my WW was destroying her family with drug use, would they support her actions? What makes destroying a family via an affair a supportable action?


A good list. I think I would add friends/family who cheat and are divorced.
For some reason, I think women who are getting divorced, no matter how painful it is, want company in their misery and will convince other women to join them in enjoying the single life, but reality is they want someone to jump off the cliff with them.

My wife has several such friends. The friend I liked least who kept the affair secret was a BETRAYED SPOUSE herself. Repeatedly told my wife to leave me so they could go out together. She never left her husband. Then told her to leave b/c you deserve to be happy and in love.

I know first hand that no matter how important someone is in their life though, if they disagree with the affair, they will be cut out in favor of the type of people mentioned above. That is sad in many ways because those type of people usually have many vices and encourage even more bad behaviors.

A true friend will tell you when you are screwing up and try to stop you.

Last edited by arkhawk1; 03/22/10 09:19 PM.

Me BH 40
Her XWW 34
Married 12 years

Feb 09 - PA #1 (w/married alcoholic)
Apr 09 - Started recovery, thought things were going well until...
Jan 10 - PA #2 (w/different guy on Facebook)
Dec 10 - Divorced
Now - very happy; no regrets
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Originally Posted by TryingEverything
And the other enabler is more of the "I'll support you whatever decision you make" types.

Anyone have some good articles to read on this? I have a few of those types that tell my WW "I'll support you no matter what".

I want to be able to talk to them and explain why they're not helping.

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Song lyric by the band Plants and Animals:

"It takes a good friend to say you've got your head up your *ss."




BH(Me)=40
WXW=38
ILYBNILWY: 8/09
DDAY: 8/31/09
Two boys: 8,7
Divorced 3/23/2011

Don't let your eyes refuse to see. Don't let your ears refuse to hear. Or you ain't never gonna shake this sense of sadness. --Ray Lamontagne
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Originally Posted by TryingEverything
I do fear that WW will never agree to giving up enabler friend. As I said, they are like sisters. That could be the deal breaker.

Be careful about dealbrakers and ultimatums. Are you really prepared to follow through?


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Originally Posted by TryingEverything
Song lyric by the band Plants and Animals: "It takes a good friend to say you've got your head up your *ss."


Yup. Reminds me of a quote from the first *Harry Potter* book, when Professor Dumbledore said to the assembly: "It takes a great deal of courage to stand up to your enemies. It takes a great deal more to stand up to your friends."


Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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Originally Posted by TryingEverything
And the other enabler is more of the "I'll support you whatever decision you make" types.

Trying,

Thank you...another excellent enabler-mechanism. Goes hand in hand with the ole "blood is thicker than water" excuse for the enabling WS-family.


xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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I have struggled with this in my own WW behavior. In the last 5 years WW has gone through 4 BFF that have all had affairs and gone on to divorce their husbands. I have never been fond of these friends bit realize that you can not choose your WW friends. I agree with above posts that blame should not be placed on WW friends but that those friends could make recovery very difficult.

This has always been my biggest obstacle to exposure as well. WW works with and is surrounded by friends that are all described in the above list. Not much help with pressure when WW whole world engages in the behavior you are trying to stop.


Me (32) BS
Her (33) WW
S(8) | D(6) | D(5)

My Story
Married 9 Years
March 2010: D-Day #1
May - July 2010: Retrouville & counseling
July 2010: WW stopped couseling because we were "better"
November 2010: D-Day #2 (lesson learned "don't stop until the professional tells you are better")
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