I guess it's hard to really understand when you post stuff sometimes. I read through it and sometimes it sounds like either we have multiple personalities or I�m just condescending.
When things are good they are real good..

That�s when I want things to work. There are no hang up and we can laugh for hours� That�s how it could be if we could both shed our own hang ups.


But when we fight�. We really fight! It�s bad, a lot of horrible things get said by both of us. Sometimes you can�t help but to think �is this Really what he thinks of me?� we will go on for weeks not talking. Even a look will set us off.

That�s when the (survey says) emotional abuse stuff comes in� It can be very hurtful the things that get said and why they get said�

(ex: If I have been a bit moody and ask you not to drink and we get into an argument; I don�t think it�s ok to bring up the fact that I was abused as a child and my entire family is trash and I had my children living at my drunken mothers house. Calling me a negligent mother when I went home to stay with my drunken mother because I had nowhere else to go is a little below the belt)

My mother stayed sober for the 2 weeks I lived with her� she is poor but she is poor living in a military community so it�s not the ghetto or the slums� if she could stay sober it would be a normal grandma�s house.


It�s these piercing comments that get made that nag at you There is no ref to let you know that something�s are just not allowed.. I won�t bring up his cheating� but if I�m attacked over mine I will bring it up.. If he has no defense he is quick to bring up the past, but then of course in my mind he has turned my actions into some manipulative twisted version of the truth and I defend myself�

It�s not right, it�s a horrible cycle. We both have silver tongues.. But if we talk like this (as I am posting) It usually ends up as us trying to defend ourselves.. I can�t talk without offending him in some way and I talk too much, but I guess I am afraid he will misunderstand me so I drag it out so he doesn�t misunderstand me, but just like reading forums you can only absorb so much.

Vice versa also, I am no saint myself and am just as flawed.. but like I said this is my perspective I am writing from so I am a little biased towards myself but I am trying very hard to be informative and accurate and not too biased.... It would take pages for me to explain everything and why who did what� So a lot gets left out and left to misinterpretation..

In reply to:

he's in the army correct? if so, what does he do in the army...has he seen combat? if so, that could explain his edgyness and eye's darting...he's still in combat mode...it happens...my dad is a veitnam vet...seen lots of combat...he was a drinker too

-Sorry I don't know how to do the insert thing.

It was the opposite.. I am the vet who went to combat.. He was watching our son while I was deployed. He was in the army for a brief period and got out before 9/11 and went to school to earn his degree.

But thats also hard.. your at home watching your son while your wife is deployed to war...

I understand a little but it kinda stings.

thank you for your service to our country...i was un the navy from '92 to '96...although i was single, i witnessed how hard deployment can be on a married couple...i saw a lot of marriages end in divorce...

Silence,

I think that the two of you as grown ups and as parents need to sit down and decide whether you want to be married or divorced. If you want to be married then it is time for each of you to own your own stuff and start to do the hard work of having a grown up M where each of you considers the other ones feelings and needs.

You have stumbled right into the perfect place to do that. You need to get control over your own lovebusters and he needs to grow up enough to realize that his W not wanting him to be drunk and high all the time, especially around children is NOT controlling behavior.

Few married couples get an opportunity to both begin working at restoring their M at the same time and on the same level. You may have that opportunity now. the decision is yours. If you want that, stick around and we will help you with it.

God's blessings,

Say

The military is rough and a lot of friends I have known have ended in divorce.. Truth is most times the military just doesn't give you much time to fix anything.. buck up soldier, get over it or put it out of your mind you gotta save your fellow comrades� life..

Saving someone�s life verses your own marriage.. it is tough.

My problem started after I got out but perhaps his started while I was at war.

But now what?? I read the "can one spouse save a marriage".. If I mentioned this marriage builders I would be laughed at... If I talked about love deposits he would make some crude joke at my expense.. and then make jokes every time we'd argue. He wouldn't have the patience to read any of this nor would he be interested.

I am hoping that I could lead by example... someone mentioned earlier that if he could curb his addiction that although the marriage may not work he could at least be a good father. Thats very insightful and a pretty good comment.

He doesn't like to be criticized in any way, and reading all this would make him feel pretty guilty, which then leads to regret to remorse to negativity and feeling attacked. So he'll make fun of it. That is his instinctual behavior in situations where he feels attacked.

But if I become a better more caring and optimistic person perhaps he will want to do the same. I just hate it that when I try to improve myself he cuts me down.

I am improving myself for my family, how do you counter balance negative comments when you�re trying to improve for your spouse? He gets so jealous sometimes, like we are brother and sister and if I get something he gets mad. He wants me to look good but if I go to the gym I get cut down or he'll OBSESSIVLY start going to the gym and completely ignores me.

Everything�s always gotta be over the top with him. If I go climbing 1 day with my friends (girls, I've abandoned all male friends) He's gotta go on a 2 week backpacking adventure with his.. Did I mention we have 2 young boys. He wants the marriage where the man is out climbing mountains while the wife is home watching the kids and taking care of everything..

I am sorry but I view mountain climbing man as a bit selfish. My husband can go ahead and become mountain climbing man but I can't support him in that. We have kids, I have school, work... there is no time in our lives for that right now.. Later but not right now.

I would love to be mountain climbing girl but there is no time for that right now. It stings when he is sooo turned on by these women.... Hello!!! I am right here.. I am her if I wasn't taking care of all your stuff! If I wasn't raising our kids and scrubbing our toilets and washing our dishes� that would be my bikini clad body in the kayak....

I LOVE to rock climb and be outdoors but I have responsibilities right now that are more important... I have two young boys I have to take care of, WE have to take care of and we are already extremely active for parents.. Not every family hike their kids up a 6,000 ft mnt in France for a backpacking weekend. (Only in moderation and if the kids are having fun! If we gotta turn around we gotta turn around, it�s important it remains fun for them)

I want this to work; but if he can't get his priorities straight I'm gonna have to go... I can't let my boys grow up feeling like they held us back. They are the best thing that has ever happened to me and I can't let negativity and regret spoil that. Besides In a few years they'll be climbing with me.. This is only a temporary down time period,, soon we'll be back in the game but it's more important for my children that we sit this half out to spend time with them.. I don't think that is selfish.

But how do I say that encouragingly?

Thanks to everyone posting. I really need some help here and any insight would be helpful.. Sometimes you can get so caught up in your own point of view you get lost in it..

It's good to get neutral feedback. It's the wake up call I need!

Reply to Saynomore

I really do want this to work, I want the boys to have their father.. He is amazing when he wants to be.

Is it a mistake to be separated right now.. He is leaving for Kosovo in May..

We will be separated again, 12 months is a long time and we didn't make it through the first time so I'm worried. I feel hopeful though, he will get a chance to miss us for an extended period of time. Maybe come to appreciate the children and I more.. Or fall the other way and cherish his freedom.

I guess I can only work on my own improvements and strengthen myself and hope he is doing the same. I don�t know his real intention for signing up for Kosovo. I guess when I told him I had to go back and think he didn�t want to be bored and alone. Or maybe he just wants me to miss him.

I guess I should be encouraging at this point no matter the reason. Give him incentive to try� right?

You cannot heal a M while living apart. The best you can hope for is to tread water til he gets back. If I were you I would take your boys and go home and Plan A your butt off til he leaves for Kosovo.

Order His Needs, Her Needs and Love Busters and memorize them. From your posts it sounds like your independent behavior is killing you. Neithr of you is currently in an active A and both are guilty. Sounds like a wash to me. Forgive each other, recommitt and start spending some time together. It is impossible to R a M without spending at least 15 hours a week of UA time together. That is time just you and H like before you were married.

If you are serious and you want this then do something about it.

God's Blessing,

Say

Silence, sorry you are here but welcome to MB. You have a lot of issues going on simultaneously and I can relate to much of it.

I am a betrayed spouse. I am career military and I am also a recovering alcoholic.

I feel for you and your situation. I applaud you for coming here searching for answers.

Have you looked into any counseling for yourself or marriage counseling for both of you?

I agree completely with Say in that I think you need to do some deep soul-searching to figure out what you really want in your life. I also agree that this is a great place to help you figure that out.

It seems as though you have already decided that you don't want to continue your life as it is. I don't blame you as it certainly doesn't seem healthy. Remember that the only thing you really have the power to change is YOU.

I recommend you continue to read up on this site regarding your relationship. Take some time and really think about what it is you really want in your life- for yourself and your children. Develop your goals and share them here. There is no 'quick fix' to any of these problems. You will need to have a plan of action and then act on it.

You are not alone.

SOL

It was a wash.. everytime we got back together. I guess we figured if we are both under the same roof it counts and things would just work themselves out. But they don't.

I thought I had to leave in order to stop us from messing up whatever may be left..

It's easier to be in love whenever we are not under the same roof... I need to figure out why and apply it now.

Welp it's harder with 2 kids,our alone time is def from time left over or fragments of time we squeeze together, we keep ourselves Extremely busy all of the time. Plus I am currently attending night school for nursing, There is never alone time and thats why we fight. (The VA pays me for school and we just bought a house so I can't afford to be a stay at home mom right now)

But it's not impossible. Maybe I could make him a surprise dinner where him and I can just sit together. We used to do spontanious things like that all the time.

I think when I try to be honest I am actually being demanding, thats why he thinks I am controlling. So when I tackle his drinking I should meet it with something positive.. like offering him a soda or something nice instead. diverting his attention away from drinking and doing something fun...

I could use some ideas on fun things couples do when the kids have gone to bed. But I don't just want it to revolve around intercourse. Thats a very weak spot and I'd like to build a relationship so it doesn't feel so dirty. Most of it is in my head and thats another issue I know I need to work out.

In the begining we both gave.. Then it felt like we gave too much and we both became takers. Now being a giver is associated with weakness and if we give to much we will be taken advantage of. -That thinking needs to stop. I can give all I want but need to make my emotional needs known, but not demand them. I need to do some more reading on how to ask for things with out demanding them.

Instead of who gets to do what, it should be how can we do this together... He should want to hang out with me and do things with me instead of his buddies and I need to work on how I can make myself more fun. Try to become friends again instead of the dreaded wife. Stop negotiating.

Friends don't really take or demand anything... they are just happy to see you.

This sums it up perfect:

"Instead of trying to force our spouse to make us happy, our Taker wants us to give up on our spouse entirely. We don't want our spouse to do anything for us, and we certainly don't want to do anything for our spouse. In this state of mind we are emotionally divorced."

We do stuff for each other but often get rejected. We are refusing to accept each others emotional gifts. I am not allowing him to give. We are refusing each others emotional gifts for fear of being hurt or taken advantage of. If I accept his gift his foot will be in the door to my heart and I will be taken advantage of again. If I want it to work I need to let him in. Duh...

At this point I am just thinking out loud and posting so if I'm completely off track someone can pipe up and say "uhhh probably don't do that girl cuz that doesn't sound like such a good idea"

Me leaving isn't as simple as me just leaving him. We are in germany and the only school I can go to that the VA covers is the local schools here and they only offer night school. After a full day of work my husband has to come home and watch the boys while I am in school and it's a HUGE source of emotional resentment.

He is mad I am gone... and I hate going to night school.

I work all day and then spend fragments of time with my kids and then i am off to school. I hate it and I hate having to give my family spliters of my time. But like I said it's how we afford to get by. Another reason he is going to Kosovo.

I can go to school during the day if I am in the states and then I can spend evenings at home playing with them and helping with homework.

We moved to Germany for money.. Everything we do is tied to a profit. How can we profit from this.. It drives me crazy. We bought a house and built an apartment upstairs. Neither of us have the time to take care of it or work on renting it out.

At this point I would rather live in a shoe box than have to worry about the stress of trying to squeeze every last dime out of everything.

I need to get rid of all of this "busy" stuff. I don't have anymore time... I schedule my life down to seconds of the day.
So I quite my job and am moving to the states to lead a more relaxed country life. I don't want the "James Bond" lifestyle.

I am not leaving until after he goes to Kosovo.. I will work harder to be his best friend before he leaves but should also make it clear that this lifestyle we are leading is not for me.

I don't want to be that girl. I want to have fun and travel just as much as anyone but I don't want these moments to be forced. I don't want to travel so I can brag about it to my family and friends as a way of saying "look at me we've made it."

I'm good taking the boys to a near by river and skipping stones. His parents are country and very low key. It'll be good for the boys to be around such relaxed family members. I like my husbands family.

Four Guidelines for Successful Negotiation:
"Chances are that you have been responding to this issue in one of three ways:
1) ignoring your own feelings and doing it your spouse's way,
2) ignoring your spouse's feelings and doing it your way, or
3) ignoring the problem entirely."

Guess I'll brainstorm now and post before actually addressing it with my husband. I am trying to do it right. When do I talk to him about me posting stuff? He doesn't like "outside" advice when it comes to our relationship... not even advice thats coming from his own parents. But I�ve already talked to his parents about us not working out.

Actually I talk to his cousin who is our age and she talked to his parents.. He felt betrayed.... understandably so but things were getting violent. So I addressed it and the violence stoped immediently and hasn�t occured since. I want him to read some of this stuff.. it�s good. And i am not approaching this as being all his fault... But it has to stop and we have to rethink how we approach things.. we keep using old bad habits and are just walking in circles.

Why women leave men:
"When I talk to their husbands, they usually have a very different explanation as to why their wives feel the way they do. They often feel that the expectations of women in general, and their wives in particular, have grown completely out of reach. These men, who feel that they've made a gigantic effort to be caring and sensitive to their wives, get no credit whatsoever for their sizeable contribution to the family.

They feel under enormous pressure to improve their financial support, improve the way they raise their children, and improve the way they treat their wives. Many men I see are emotionally exhausted and feel that for all their effort, they get nothing but criticism"

-That I could see happening! He is prob sooo obsessed with trying to turn a profit cuz it's in the best interest of the family... But can't see that his obsession is tearing us apart.. well I guess just making things worse.. we've already torn ourselves apart.

But the financial support is just not that enormous of a pressure... We are fine, we are doing pretty good.. great considering what we both grew up in. The more money we make the higher the expectations get... We are good.. I am fine, the kids are fine.. It�s nice to have money but we don�t really NEED it.

We could use less money and more quallity time though.