I have been rereading some of the items on the site again(because the first time around I was foggy).


I thought it might add something to the discussion.

Your right pepperband, everyone has come across that 1st one in the 15 steps. I have to tell you , I have found myself several times in situations like that and as soon as I felt it was feeling more for one than the other I backed off...walked away, kept a distance. I am a very friendly outgoing person, and very affectionate. I love to hug all of my friends. I can see when things go different and it is hard for me to back away because then I can't be the person I am....but I do it...for me....for my husband....for my family.

MORE capable? Yes. Absolutely.


Yes, yes, and.....yes.

The person who fits this profile better fortify his or her boundaries, big-time.....


TB

Doesn't, by nature, meeting someone else's needs in a repetitive and effective manner translate into a higher proclivity for the recipient(s) to reciprocate?

I think the answer is yes. A foregone conclusion? No, but it definitely increases the likelihood. In my opinion.....

The entitlement aspect is an interesting hook, though.

Hmmmm.


TB

Yes, Yes, Yes! ExWW is a huge rescuer. She�s always had a soft spot for the person who can�t afford their horse, needed a few lessons, etc. She attracted the fringes of the horse world like flys on poop. It was a huge love buster for me when I would come home from work and find another horse she �rescued� from someone.

Neither one of us needed a rescuer when we started dating seriously. We both were in our last year of college and when we graduated, we both got jobs that were in line with our education and experience. Plus, we had both were living on our own. We moved in together about 3 weeks before our wedding.

10 years later, she had been a SAHM for about 6 years, and was very dependent on me since I was the only wage earner. In hindsight, It created an imbalance in the relationship where it caused dissonance where the rescuer in her was dependent on me.

In walks POSOM � he was a relative, kicked off his dad�s farm, unemployed, and homeless. The rescuer in her kicked in BIG time. He then started to play the admiration and conversation card with her saying how nice and wonderful she was for taking him in. Meanwhile, I start to voice my displeasure with the whole arrangement as exWW is spending more time with POSOM than with me.

Now, she starts comparing POSOM to me � POSOM is cutting the grass, mucking her stalls, painting the walls. In their eyes, I go to work and complain about POSOM monopolizing exWW�s time. I�m the bad guy.

Once the affair was consummated and she was in deep, it created a dynamic where there were three parties in our divorce as all of her decisions she has made since the separation in 8/08 had been made in what was in POSOM�s best interests. The rescuer in her is so strong that her and the kids best interests took a back seat to POSOM�s best interests. For example, she was found in contempt of court for failing to pay medical and daycare expenses for the kids yet paid several thousand in feed, hay, vet, and blacksmith bills for POSOM�s horses.

She can�t let go of POSOM because throwing him out would create a huge conflict in the rescuer in her, yet , it was easy for exWW to throw a 20 year friendship and 12 year relationship out the window because someone needed rescuing.

Pep

In your own profession, what about Nurses and NP types and their relationships?

Larry

Hmmmmmm. I kind of think of my WH as a rescuer type. I was examining my current sitch and I was wondering some things. My WH has always had female friends while we have been together. He used to say that he had me so there was no pressure when talking to girls. He had many female friends and (as far as I know by his previous actions)this is the first time that he had an affair. I started to examine what made POSOW different from the other girls. The only thing I could think of was that POSOW has a child. She is a single mother.

You see my WH used to listen to what I had to say about women. You could say that he used to let me "educate" him. I warned him that if he was ever to complain or share things with other women about me that it could possibly cause a problem. He could get himself into an affair. He used to tell me that he NEVER complained about me to ANYONE(I told him that was unhealthy, he should have 1 male friend he could talk to). Solid boundary there.

So how did this sitch come about? He let his guard down with regards to the kids. WH told me that he started talking to POSOW because she was having problems with raising her daughter. I had taken a positive parenting course(we have a spirited 7 year old) and he would talk to her about what solutions she could implement to her own sitch. He let his guard down. He found common ground as he too was frustrated with our son(whom by the way is as strong willed as my WH).

Now I in no way am saying that my WH wasn't at fault. He absolutely was. Talking about the kids didn't give him an excuse to have an A. I am just trying to figure out where the boundary slipped. POSOW also told me that my WH was the first friend of hers that thought about her. He would think about what was best for her and he treated her kindly. This is who he is. He has always been this way. Always willing to help a friend and expecting nothing in return.

When we first started dating, I was physically and emotionally abused by my father. My WH helped "rescue" me. Over the years, I didn't ask for rescuing as much.

Hmmmmm this is really interesting Pep. Thanx for making the brain juices work overtime today.

Sorry you're not feeling well today, Pep....

Well, maybe this thought will really cause a brain-drain.....

What about the person -- "uber-Giver" -- who derives significant pleasure/fulfillment by GIVING? Thus, they TAKE by giving? It's not the reciprocal component that has a material worth, it's the feeling of giving, the response generated as a result of their giving?

Yeah, I know. I came up with that one all on my own. Sadly, no med's were required......

I do think that, yes, the spectre of entitlement grows as one continues to give. I don't see folks being capable of giving INTO PERPETUITY. Whether they eventually feel entitled to accept reciprocation from an appropriate recipient, TAKE in a different venue, or merely be accepting of a life of GIVING as a form of taking, is an interesting question.

The more one GIVES, the more one risks ENTITLEMENT. How one CHOOSES TO FULFILL their sense of entitlement is hard to gauge. Could be good. Could be bad.


TB

The Taker comes out in the M relationship and not in the A relationship. In the A relationship, they are both working with their Givers. I think their Takers come out as reality sets in. Hmmmmmmm thinking emoticon needed.

Okay, I will say that what I posted got YOU thinking but I am not going to take the blame/credit for that.

bump

I just used this anantomy of affair to go through the dates of my WH's affair and I really have to change the start date of his affair because I did not take into account the stages of the affair. Wow.. I was naiive.

I was friends with the OW and her husband and the flirting and common interest thing were the two biggest standout features that I failed to acknowledge until it was too late.

WH only wanted to consider affair starting from the date of the first kiss in mid-Oct but affair really started back in June of 2009.

Thank you for the post and link. This was an eye opener to me that I was still trying to believe WH that this was a stint of 2 short affairs. According to him the first one was from Oct 2009 and ended Nov 29 2009 and second affair started in April and ended May 2nd, 2010. Technically we have been living in this lie for almost a year.

I think if more people were educated on the criteria and how affairs begin, maybe more affairs could be elminated. Or maybe that is wishful thinking on my part. I tried to bring some of these issues to my WH's attention before the first kiss and he denied it and made it seem like I was jealous. If your spouse is too hooked into the addiction, I am not sure much can be done unless I would have done total exposure on my first suspicion to OW's husband. I still kick myself for the things I could have done.

Regardless, I do want to thank you for the clear formula. It really puts things into the perspective that these affairs usually are just a series of stages and the soulmate stuff is unfounded in the real world. They are only soulmates in their cloudy mixed up affair world

Cyberkat71, you are welcome.

I think this is useful especially when we hear the wayturds say:

"We did not mean to fall in love, it just happened."

Well, THIS is how something as terrible and as ugly as adultery "just happens".

Bump.

Doing the BUMP