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We can talk about �people pleasers� and �entitlement mentalities� till the cows come home. You will find rampant immaturity, insecurity, poor communication skills, improper upbringing, dysfunctional backgrounds/families, impulsivity, bad judgment, na�vet�, dependency, attention-seeking, and resentful grievance-mongering among the ranks of adulterers, no doubt.

The simple fact is that, while we are all capable of having an affair, many of us do not�even when opportunity exists. People who cheat on their marriages display INADEQUATE DEFENSE OF APPROPRIATE VALUES, STANDARDS, PRINCIPLES, & BOUNDARIES.

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Taking that first step that "crosses the line" .....

HOW does the wayward say...

"It just happened."
"It was not planned."

??????

I hope this thread helps to explain "how" that first step can seem innocent .... until it isn't.

Your analysis (and photo) could not have more telling and SPOT ON.

Undoubtedly that very first "toe over the line" seems innocent and harmless at first to the WS. Most (non-MB) 3rd-party observers would probably agree that the initial toe-over-line activities...a 'friendly' conversation, a minor flirtation, a 'little-white-lie'...are meaningless and unproblematic.

But, as soon as they are reinforced, reciprocated, and/or continued (i.e. as soon as inappropriate emotional needs are provided/exchanged) the WS is on the SLIPPERY SLOPE--greased by self-entitlement & "good feelings"�of betrayal, values-compromise, and personal/marital destruction. We all know how hard it is for most WSs to properly extract themselves once they have picked up some downward-sliding momentum.

Instead, they most often justify, rationalize, conceal, manipulate, scapegoat, deceive, and CYA. Virtually every WS says similar obfuscations and virtually every BS hears them. Here are some variations on the theme I heard from my WW that will sound very familiar to any BS here on Marriage Builders:

�I just felt lonely�
�I wasn�t looking for a relationship�
�We (are/were) just friends�
�It was all I had to hold on to�
�I can�t help how I feel�
�We aren�t compatible anymore�(OM & I) understand each other�
�You made me this way�
�I didn�t think you cared about me�
�I was unhappy at home�
�My work is important�I have to take this call�
�I never meant for our lives to turn out this way�
�I�m not ruining my life�it�s a chance I have to take�
�God wants me to be happy�I deserve to be happy�

Amazing how it all starts �innocently� by doing/saying simple little things with another person that should ONLY have been reserved for the SPOUSE.

I hope this helps any WS who might read this to understand that the process was VOLUNTARY and WITHIN THEIR CONTROL, not something magical from the sky that rendered them helpless and unaccountable.

All of this info is spot on. However, there are other types of predators out there. In my case, the two ow were women who were after a certain type of man. One with material wealth.

Like sharks are drawn to seals and not really humans, both of them were on the hunt for a guy like my xh. (wow, they sure did win a winner..lol!)

What imho happens when you have the predatory types of om and ow out there, is they seek prey, find potential prey and poke and poke and initiate contact, trying to find the "weakness" of the mm or mw, and then concentrate on that area. Seriously these types happen.

At the time my xh had his ema's, (almost simultaneously btw) it was when my child was very small and had been born prematurely. I kept a close eye on my child for the first few years of life because of that, and possibly admiration and praise wasn't handed out enough in his eyes, but then again my x is one who is in 24/7 need of admiration and is one of those "entitlement" waywards you find here.

So I think the ow zero'd in on that need and played it up. In the case of monkeyho, she actually caused misery in several marriages, having been a professional imho ow, and finally got her prey. Laughably now it's an old dude, not like what she would have preffered, but he did have the possessions she was interested in.

I have a male friend who has a ww now and told him of this site. I tried to tell him yes there are marriage predators out there, and hope he comes here and finds ways to help his situation. Praying for them now.

But what honestly baffles me is how to rationalize away crossing over the proverbial line. I know I have a huge guilt complex built in and couldn't do it if I tried. Even with the steps involved in creating the ema, I think some people are just wired differently that's all.

When you read thru the steps, it makes things imho much more ugly. I wish all counselors out there would show these steps to waywards, because it truly shows the progression of evil and lies.

Knowing what happens in that and knowing what I can do to keep my M to my DH on the right track always, is so hopeful! I'm thankful of learning the MB principles and having the chance to apply them now when our M is new is the key for our future.

Wishing all could learn the wisdom here

SDCW is right, there is alot of revision of history and I would suspect the ability to cross the line is directly proportional to the amount of history being re-written at the time.

At which point does the history get re-written? I think maybe during the phase where the ws compares the bs to the op maybe. So if that's true, then very early on the history gets muddled right?

Your thoughts folks?

Peachy -- your post is so right about the OP. The DEGREE of entitlement and experience of the OP seems to drive the DEGREE of waywardness in the WS. And if OP isn't attached at the moment, WATCH OUT because their tactics are more overt.

The OW in my sitch is definitely a predator who researched my WH. It started with little stuff -- showing up at the same events, looking for financial advice from my banker H, needing some "help" with her business. In the beginning, WH shared some of OWs strategies. That OW was "impressed" how WH wasn't like other guys. How there was no "crossing the line" at the beginning. How WH "respected her" by not trying any funny business.

Then, after they became "friends" and a little too much alcohol one night -- BAM -- it just sorta happened. She put the bait in the water, waited for a few nibbles, then set the hook. And since he hadn't been caught before, he bit hard.

And she'd have ended it ANYTIME he wanted. Afterall, she just wants him to be HAPPY, she lives such a POSITIVE LIFE, and she would NEVER control him.

I do believe you need to know your enemy to establish your plan of action ESPECIALLY of OW has done this before. If I had known the kind of OW I was dealing with on Day 1, I would have been more ballsy on ending the A. I had no experience in this field. My learning curve started years and years behind hers. I was at a definite disadvantage being older and deeply entrenched in traditional values about marriage and family and God.

Despite what some people say -- that it doesn't really matter who the OP is -- I do not agree. It's like a 70 pound junior high flag football player trying to go up against a pro. There is no match, no competition. It's like she already knew every play I would run and had a counter-plan already in place. I wished I had found a mentor -- someone who had been in my shoes dealing with the same kind of OW -- to guide me with a plan.

My original post, and my intended topic of this thread is not the OP.
Not at all.
Just so you know.

Hh,

I too had an OW like this in my marriage. However, as Pep says, the article isn't addressing itself to the predatory OP. It also does not address the WS who thinks that there is nothing wrong with a bit of secret fun, or any other kind of affairee who is amoral* about affairs in general.

It is about the person who meant the vow of fidelity when they gave it and believes in it still. It is about the person who does not protect him/herself against her own vulnerabilities, perhaps believing that a wedding ring in itself is protection. It is about the person who doesn't at first recognise that an opposite-sex friendship is filling a tiny part of one of their emotional needs, and so lets that friendship grow.

It's about decent people like you and me, not about the vile predatory OWs who deliberately intruded into our marriages.

*In other words, so open-minded that their brains fall out.

I understand. In my opinion, the OP often does a lot more then wag a finger to get the WS to cross the line using experience and manipulation. I just think there's a difference between having a pro versus an amature standing with open arms on the other side and guideing the WS deeper into affairland.

Ego and character of the WS are the ultimate reason to even consider crossing the line. It shouldn't matter whether there's a naked George Clooney surrounded by gold and jewels or a decaying Herman Munster in filth. Based on the various stories on MB alone, we know that lines have been crossed regardless of who/what were on either side of the line.

The intent of this thread is to (hopefully) help wayward and betrayed spouses who READ the MB forums understand the "how" most affairs start.

Especially, my intent is to help the vulnerable betrayed spouse protect himself/herself from the common underestimation of the dangerous early steps.

To discuss a predatory OP, and to do that topic the justice it deserves, would take a different thread. (hint)

That's a good point PB. And it needs to be discussed alot.
Because there are some out there just like that.

I agree w/HH in that the ego of the would-be ws is key in whether they cross the line or not.

Seeing what I have also been seeing in a friend of mine's marriage just blows my whole mind. But there are alot of people who purposely set out to destroy a marriage once they see a target.

That target needs to be fireproof imho. And learning here and helping the marriage partner learn how to be affair proof is awesome and I'm going to show this to my DH.

However, this article is outstanding because it imho, would help bring a mirror to the ugliness of an ema and even help a ws who wishes to end it, by seeing the way they evolve and it ain't pretty.

Pep's point is well-taken.

While there is no doubt that many/most slimy OMs/OWs (married themselves or not) connive, and manipulate, and sweet-talk, and charm-the-pants-off of a stbWS whom they find "attractive" (and also intrinsically recognize are 'vulnerable')...

...NONE OF THAT "PREDATORY BEHAVIOR" IS IN ANY WAY AN EXCUSE FOR A MARRIED MAN/WOMAN OF HONOR TO INDULGE IN OR ENCOURAGE ONE BIT.

Look, let's consider what characteristics are typical 'initial attractants' in each gender to members of the opposite sex:

Men are attracted initially to a woman overwhelmingly VIA LARGELY VISUAL INPUTS. They see/meet a woman who is (seemingly or real) dressed alluringly, has nice hair, nice makeup, a pretty face, a great smile, a sexy figure, etc., and boom...she is someone they are drawn to and incentivized to engage with banter, conversation, flirtation, etc. It is no secret that a woman who naturally has feminine sex appeal is likely to get extra male attention. Don�t believe me? How often does the male dentist have a relationship (legit or affair) with the shapely gal at the gym rather than the frumpy or homely assistant?

Women are attracted initially to a man overwhelmingly VIA DISPLAYS OF SOCIAL PROWESS & POWER. They see/meet a man who displays (seemingly or real) charm, charisma, authority, confidence, leadership, etc., and boom�he becomes as a person of interest beyond the ordinary whose attention she is more likely to indulge. It is no secret that a man with some alpha-male qualifications will find women willing to talk with him. Don�t believe me? How often does the female office secretary have a relationship (legit or affair) with the HEAD BOSS rather than the lowly janitor?

The point of all this is with regard to marriage & affairs is:

EVERY above average �looker� female will inevitably attract interested males.
EVERY above average �catch� male will inevitably attract interested females.
Both will �have opportunities�.

If you are married, those opportunities (either way, �predatory� or not) should NEVER become an excuse to put your �toe over the line�. Ultimately, is the responsibility of the married man/woman to vigilantly defend appropriate values and boundaries no matter what is thrown at him/her. Coming full circle, it doesn�t really matter much (even if true) how seductive or predatory the OM/OW is�the WS FAILS IN HIS/HER DUTY TO EXERCISE PROPER DISCRETION AND DILIGENCE AND THEY OWN THAT SELL-OUT COMPLETELY.

Ho Ho HO

BLIMP




Oooops!
I mean, BUMP !

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Bump for the newbies. Very useful thread for all of us-- BS and WS alike.

I remember the feeling that he was drawing away and trying to draw him back also. And he would lay in bed all day long, and I think it was to try to get me to get angry with him....