If you give a mouse a cookie ....

...he'd better check to make sure no one licked the tops...

Sorry, back to the topic...

I am not or was not lazy in the marriage. we would discuss things and come up with a plan together but once i go to sleep and wake up and what we discussed would be gone and she would already have done things her way no matter what. i have stopped my drinking and all night events even before our seperation i have tried to get along with in laws or atleast ignore to make sure they can not be a problem i was still am proactive with kids but it doesnt seem like enough i did read the link you posted

It's easy to have a relationship with an internet fantasy.
A fantasy does not require you to help out at home.
A fantasy makes few requests.



Porn requires even LESS energy than an internet fantasy.
Nothing is required of you.
It's all about you.
The porn doesn't even want to have a conversation with you.



You were not "there".
There was no part of you available for a true connection.
A true connection requires you put in effort.
You were too busy having effort-free relationships with internet fantasy women, and porn.



Alcohol is a "pleasure" that requires no effort on your part.
It is instant gratification.
No effort, but feel good anyway.



You escape.
That's what you do when something is required of you.
You escape with
internet fantasy
porn
alcohol
and actual physical removal of yourself
One way or another , you leave.



That was not done out of love.
Don't fool yourself.
It was convenient, and required little effort on your part.
I am certain your wife would have preferred you provide her with her own home.
A husband who was "present", not on the computer with a fantasy, with porn, or out drinking all night.

In other words, your husband skills are pretty much zero.

NOW that I have finished doing this ~~~>

Read about LOVE BUSTERS *here*

Good luck!
Read this stuff.
Don't be lazy and spend your time on MB complaining and whining.
DO SOMETHING.

wait i have no problem taking my blame that i rightfuly deserve but i did those things because she didnt want to connect with me i wanted to moved several should not come with me i could not leave her i wanted to be intimate she did not i wanted to do things find new things have play dates with couples with kids she said no everytime

You did those things because you wanted to. You disconnected from her and pursued your pleasures. Own your [censored].

instincts and habits shot out at me right away i beleive it is concept #2

Your "BUT" just negated everything you said before the "BUT". Stop with the blame game. You did those things because you were selfish in your marriage. Period. You've been married 8 years and what have you shown your wife about what a husband should be? What have your shown your children?

What are you willing to do to work on yourself? Really?

You could start with owning up to your faults and diving into learning about how to become a better man/husband/father. We can help you with that but we won't help you place the blame on someone else.

Welcome to MB - the best place to be when it looks impossible.

Please listen to everyone's advice. Only person you can control is yourself and if you want to avoid divorce and work on rebuilding the marriage then you are at the right place.

Listen closely to Pep and read what she says, multiple times. She is a wizard at this stuff and she is telling you super important key bits of information.

One thing that is especially eye-opening is realizing that we all tend assume our spouses like what we like, feel what we feel, and react the way we react. That's a huge misconception.

Your wife may like going to the mall and chatting about nothing while browsing through the stores. You may think it's a ludicrous waste of time and energy. But ... that is how SHE relaxes and unwinds. That is how SHE bonds.

You may like nothing more than going to a ball game and cheering for your favorite team. Your wife may think that's the most asinine, infantile, boring way to spend a Saturday afternoon. But... that is how YOU have fun. YOU will bond with people who go to the game with you and cheer with you.

THAT is why Pep said "WHAT WOULD YOUR WIFE say if we were to ask her if you were lazy in the marriage?"

Maybe you've been doing back flips trying to get her to go to the ball game... which is a big waste and snooze city to her. Instead, you should be going shopping with her and chatting her up.

Now those are only illustrations. I'm NOT saying take your wife shopping. I'm saying that your perception and her perception are totally different. Nobody is right, nobody is wrong. You're just different.

If you want her to fall in love with you, you need to meet the ENs that are important **to her** and in the way **she** wants them met.

And obviously, toss LBs out the window.

Why are you getting up so much later than she is?
Why did you not continue on with things as the two of you had planned? Your following the agreed upon plan is not dependent on what she does, is it? You are an autonomous person, capable of thinking and acting independently, yes?

What do you do with your time now, instead of drinking and partying all night?
Where is your wife during this time?

That's okay IF family commitment is one of her top ENs. Has she complained in the past that you don't help enough with the kids? If not, you're wasting precious time and energy meeting the wrong EN.

If so, what are some ways in which you are now being proactive with the kids? Maybe you just need to tweak this a bit, and some specific examples could help us give you suggestions.

Pep, you're awesome!



Your wife cannot MAKE you do ANYTHING. You did those things because you CHOSE to - you chose to step out of your marriage to get your needs met, forsaking your vows. You need to examine yourself and WHY you did that (hint: it has NOTHING to do with your wife).

As the child of divorce I can tell you it DOES suck - and the ones that will truly hurt the most are the innocent: your kids.

Please listen and address Pep's questions. They will put you on the path of the personal recovery you desperately need REGARDLESS of your wife and you getting back together. The bonus of doing all this is that it can make you more attractive to your wife, and maybe she would be willing to give it another try. If not - you are a better person, father and potential spouse.

I also notice that you've been married 8 years and yet your two boys are 12 and 9. Did you live together before marriage? Are these children from a previous relationship?

I'm sure you're probably feeling a little beat up right now - but repairing your marriage will take work, introspection and change. You gotta work on you - you can't change your wife but maybe, if you change you your marriage will survive.

Nal

I am a guy. I have been watching Pep give you some of the best advice I have ever seen on this forum over the past five years or so. I dunno why she picked you. Maybe she thinks she can help you.

I am a guy: She certainly got through to me.

I am a guy. Pay attention to everything she said. Own your own stuff. Quit making excuses and do the right thing.

I am a guy. You just turned 30. Are you man enough to admit you're a lazy bum who thinks he likes porn more than the real thing because it is easy, no work?

I am a guy. Sure it hurts. And it will hurt even more. Wake up and smell the roses, do the right thing and it hurts less.

You can't fool 'em here Nal. Shape up or take your lumps.

Heck, you are gonna take your lumps anyway you move and that is called consequences. Tasty, right?

It is never too late to hoist them up and be a man instead of a male sucking his thumb and whining.

Now why do I think you won't post here anymore? Prove me wrong.

Larry