Help I need a plan !!!

I will state just the facts if more info is needed I will provide.

Me - 38
H - 38
M 17yrs
Been Together as friends or otherwise since 8th grade
1 child 22

committed every LB stated
Didn't know what my needs were much less his
seperated 02/13/10
Started MC 02/19/10
committed DJ by demanding he read HNHN (Thankfully b4 I read LB so I can plead ignorance

So what I am needing is a plan of action. He has stated to our mc he is on the fence. Rewind a little about once or twice year for the last 10yrs about every 6m he would say he wasn't happy with our SL we would try for a little bit & it would go right back to the way before. I don't know if I was really paying attention or if I was ignoring the problem hoping it would get better & I was just one those that did not like sex I could do without. So ff 01/01/10 he tells me he is not happy & things have got to change or he's leaving. I have really tried this past year more S,mostly because that is what I thought he wanted,but not in the areas based on in MB just found out about these this last month or so. So what I am really needing here is a plan to get him off of the fence & involved in saving our M. I have read Plan A sounds good but do not know how long I can hold on until he gets with the program. I asked him to go to a MB seminar but mostly because of $$$ involved he said no. I love him with all of my heart but I know I will lose faith & hope if he is not activily trying also. He has already stated in past conversations "why didn't I find this or do this 10yrs ago" So I know there is a little bt of resentment built up because now he sees the trying but can't trust that it is genuine or that I won't back slide when things have improved. He did do LB qz & HNHN qz but then got upset when he read my answers , pleaded not fair because hadn't read the book. So I have been really leery of asking him to do another one or even mentioning MB to him at all though I have been sucking in everything I can find on MB Website. Sorry this is so long but I need help & a plan. I have done it in the past so I know if I do this for too long without him getting it I will start resenting him for it. Just want to add I've said to him & other people on many many occasions his job is his mistress !!! So UA he does not make time for I'm begining to realise that's one of our major problems but getting him to see it is a whole different ball game. I guess that was a DJ too. I am currently trying to avoid all of them just sometimes I do not realise I'm doing them. Sorry again that this is so long but I seriously need help !

Welcome. I hope you have read the threads here on sex, because there has been a very thorough discussion. You have a lot of company with women going through the same thing. And since you are the one seeking help, you will need to take the first steps.

Oh, and I'm assuming that you have completely ruled out an affair.

I would rule out the affair. Someone made a comment on my thread that folks usually don't divorce unless they have something else to jump into (not those words, but that was the gist of it).

I don't know how true that is, because most of the divorced people I know are not remarried. But who knows what really precipitated the divorces? People probably don't publicize that part of the story.

Funny u should mention an affair ..... I believe what is called an emotional affair with a customer but did not act upon it. He was starting to get that love ~n~ feeling & he told me before it went any farther. He instisted I was having S with someone else because it wasn't with him for many years. Didn't figure out until after MC & MB I didn't want to have sex because I had lost that feeling of closeness with him. So I would have to say we both have been in withdrawl for more years than I want to admit to. At one time he was my my best friend but I can't say that anymore, we've grown to far apart. I would love to get that back.

Hope you will read thinkinitthru66's thread. The sex thing has been discussed in detail.

MB can help you get that loving feeling back, so stick with us.

Also be certain that the emotional affair is not ongoing.

I do believe the emotional afair is over. I have been doing more snooping & can't find any evidence of it. Also with econ so bad She is closing her business down so there won't be any reason for them to have contact anymore. He caught himself before he fell & I am greatful for that.
MB sounds great I just hope I can convince him before I lose hope & faith. We love each other but we are not inlove with each other.

You can start the MB program without him. Usually when one person changes, the other person has to change also. Have you read some of the threads here about sex?

Couldn't search so I just registered last night before posting. I will do more reading this weekend now that I can search the boards for adwords or certain topics. Thanks a bunch ? One last question not sharing what I'm up to wouldn.t that be a LB? Not folowing RH ? Please explain !!!

How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love to Your Marriage
article by
Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8114_plan.html

I don't have much advice for you 8th as I'm going through a similar situation with my w (no EA though). I just want to say you have my sympathy because my w is sitting on the fence about working on the marriage or not, we're in MC, she's read both LB and HNHN, still doesn't "buy" the MB approach, and got defensive when I read my very first EN to her (O&H), saying she was O&H and I just didn't get it.

Like your h, my w believes change is not possible and she's not ready to trust me that I've changed and she's not ready to offer me opportunities to see if I've changed. I think we're close, but I don't know.

Getting him to read the books can help, but it might not if he's not motivated. I can tell you that for my situation motivation is key. You can't motivate your husband to do anything. He's gotta see for himself the value of working on your marriage. Can you somehow show him that value? That's tough as he won't believe you if he's like my w. Can others? Maybe your MC can provide the framework for your h to see value in working on things just to become a better person for your marriage or any relationship. I can tell you my MC has not yet been much help in the motivation department, but yours might be. Consider marriage coaching with Steve Harley because his specialty is motivated the unmotivated spouse.

You can and should work on yourself, of course. Eventually, you will hit a wall if your h still remains reluctant to commit to working on the marriage. He also is not likely to get motivated right away.

Can you last through the potential venting sessions from your h? Can you stand all of the revisioning on your marital history? Can you take the blame and accusations, knowing that at some point you can have a more balanced view? Can you take not having any of your emotional needs met for possibly months? I've done it for almost 4 months now. It's tough, but I think I'm better for it. It was easier when I had given up on our marriage last year and fought things legally, but then there was no hope of fixing things if I didn't work on my part.

Best wishes 8th and welcome to MB.

8thgraders,

I'll offer you some ideas for your plan.

1. Read Harley's four rules for a good marriage.

2. Read Harley's to policies: radical honesty and joint agreement.

3. Sit down and think and describe what a good marriage would be like for you. What do you want, what do you need, what do you enjoy?

4. Think about the things that you really love about your H. Make a list.


5. Sit down with your H and share with him your ideas for a good marriage and then the things you really love about him. Make sure this is not a list of things for him to do, but information for him so that he knows where you are coming from.

6. You need to decide if your antipathy toward SF is one of physcial repulsion, mental repulsion, or just not caring. This is important for you and your H to know. I will tell you this SF isn't just for having children and it isnn't just for pleasure. Men need it for emtoional bonding with their W's. Dr. Harley lists it as an EMOTIONAL need, not just a physical need which is what most women think.

I have more to say, but start with this and then learn to talk to your H side by side not across from one another. You need to understand that you happiness is dependent on his happiness. And his on yours. But, one thing you should also consider is that MOST men have a strong desire to be needed and you have been rejecting him on a very basic level.

Just thoughts I hope they help.

JL

Thank you for the link retread makes me think ur a tire guy like H ..... Ever we could be 2 peas in a pod. I keep holding on to hope. Some days are good & some days are bad. And I know a lot of it is how I handle it. He is a very critical person by nature so he DJ's a lot. I'm just of guilty of DH the he didn't ask so I'm not telling approach for ions. You know the if you don't know I'm not going to tell you approach or the didn't tell you what my expectations were so you usually fall short & I'm disappointed because you didn't do what I wanted you to do. Taking my families wants into account & ignoring his feelings .... he can't tell me what to do approach. Said in the begining I've committed every LB there is & some that's not mentioned. So I think he is really leery of my new way of acting. No guilt, no whining , no yelling just calmy talking & asking how he feels about me buying this or doing that. If he has the least bit of tone I do not like or hestitation. I do not do it. Money is my big IB I would spend money & not think to say anything till after the fact. Which is my next ???? how do I not commit a IB or LB when buying groceries if he will not come with me to shop ? You know going over on groceries or just having that cute new pair of shoes? Do I have to ask him for every little thing I buy? This is a really hard one for me because I admit I like to spend $$$$ so is it best to set an allowance so I do not have to ask for every little thing or what ? Help me on this!
I'm a very black & white type of person I get confused on the grays ......

All I can say about #6 is whoaaaa! Thank you for the ideas I will start working on it this weekend. Over the last month 1/2 I have really started taking a hard look at myself & it's been really scary knowing the dammage I have done. H hasn't been totally innocent but like they say hind sight is 20/20. He started it & I kept firing back as fast as he could if not faster & harder.Thanks for all of the welcomes it's nice to know they I'm not alone out there.

8thgraders,
You haven't come right out and said what are the big hurts in your marriage, but it sounds like finances are one of them. You should fill out your Emotional Needs Questionnaire and your Love Busters Questionnaire in order to identify your priorities at this moment, and assess how your ENs are being met or not, and what LB behavior from your husband is evaporating your love.

You need to maybe share that information with your husband in a polite way, and try to get him to fill out his ENQ and LBQ for your to understand his perspective.

When should you tell your spouse,
"We have a problem."
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8115_prob.html

Complaining Politely
http://www.articlesbase.com/dating-...tner-without-them-knowing-it-462968.html

Finances might be the place to start, by setting up a budget, and knowing how much is yours to spend each month on your things, like cosmetics, hair styling, clothes, or whatever personal needs are important to you. This is a good place to get started understanding and practicing the Policy of Joint Agreement, which is a cornerstone of Marriage Builders.

Policy of Joint Agreement
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html

Basic Concepts
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_summary.html

Thank u for your advice ..... I can't pinpoint this or what the exact problem is but finaces & sex have always been a major issue between us. He provides very well but I also have a good job working full time. We've always had joint finances either it be checking or charge or savings. I see now where POJA could of saved us a lot of heartache. Thisloks like such a innoccent website but it has loads of info I didn't even dream was out there. My only regret is I wish I would of found it sooner. It may too late but only time will tell.

Hi 8th. Budgeting is completely solvable. There are so many amazing budget programs out there. There's a free online one that I'm looking into called mint.com and they let you and your h decide each budget category and there's tracking that notifies the interested parties when a budget category is over budget, instantly. It hooks into all of your financial accounts securely so you don't have to type in anything. You buy caviar at the grocery store and if it puts you over your $100/week grocery budget, you and your h get the email right away.

The idea of "zero-based" budgeting, which I learned last week, is amazing. You meet monthly to decide and review your budget. Every dollar you earn goes into a category: taxes, other expenses, other savings. Of course each of these is made as fine-grained as you want (e.g., savings for trip to Mexico could be an explicit category, not just savings for savings sake). Every dollar you earn is assigned a job (category). Everything is zero'd out because the %s add up to 100.

Each month, you POJA all the categories you think are important. You POJA the percents of your income after categories. And you never ever make a spending decision for that month that has not been POJA'd for the previous month. If you go over budget, you make up for that category by working more the next month, spending less, selling things to make up for it, or borrowing for another category. You never let an overbudget item last more than a month. So no lingering arguments. That's what I learned and synthesized from several sites.

I've learned that for couples these monthly meetings where you POJA financial solutions can be one of the most thoughtful things you can do for a relationship.

You and your h would also have to talk about your values, translate them in terms of goals (with timetables), and then goals in terms of budget %s for each of the categories.

Separate from that, it seems like your biggest problem is still that your husband is on the fence. If you ask him what it might take to get him off the fence, you may get back a list of things, which is always good for you. But, Steve Harley said that since feelings are involved, your h may just "feel" that he doesn't want to work on the marriage and anything he provides might be weak cover stories of what he needs to get off the fence. On the other hand, he may really be in touch with his feelings and know what he needs. If he's like most people, he does not know what he needs to get rid of the "on the fence feeling" and will only know it if he starts seeing changes in you and believes them. (My w has seen a few changes in my but doesn't yet believe them and may never...so who knows.) The old Actions --> Feelings --> Beliefs thing.

In my case, my w has thrown up various smokescreens like "budget" is important before she can commit or our "values" might be different before she can commit, etc. The good thing is that the MC latched onto that as a framework to spend time outside of counseling to work on those "issues." The MC was smart enough to know that those are not the real "issues" and that we just have to spend time together outside of MC. We're starting with an hour a week and MC wants to shoot for 2-3 next week. I'd like to do the 15 hours a week that MB recommends...very soon. But this is a baby step.

So, in case you're wondering, as a result of one "date" outside of counseling (our first since d-filing), W now believes that "budget" is completely solvable and that our "values" match. But she's brought up 4-5 other issues in their place. That's OK, because it means more excuses for UA time outside of counseling. W doesn't realize the opps she's creating for me because we can discuss each issue while hiking or having coffee, etc and end up talking about more pleasant things that we used to talk about when dating.

Remember 8th, this is going to be hard on you. It's going to be hard for you take all the resentment, the feeling of hopelessness, the feeling of throwing in the towel. I'm nowhere near success so I can't say it'll all work, but I can say I'm doing everything I can to create a better marriage. Do you have physical and emotional outlets to handle the stress on yourself? Work on creating that environment for support for yourself.

ok going to try 1 more time ... 3rd time is a charm right! I had a great reply for you ever & I keep losing them. So I'm going to call it a day. I will totally respond back with a great post !

Happy Easter, Easter bunny bock bock !

Ever .... you sound like a great guy. I hope she doesn't wait to long & lifts the fog. Her parents welllll...... totally different issue ...... Good luck with that one !

I've spent some time reading your thread & read about the problems your facing.

You sound like a great father .... He is a major piece of the pie but keep in mind he is not the whole pie. So are your other children even if they are not in the same city.

Keep taking advantage of the opps showing is 10x more effective than telling your wife how much you love her &
want her back.

I keep telling myself that as long as we still love one another there is hope.

Thank you for the website we made a date for tomorrow nite to go over finances & make a budget.

I'm looking forward to seeing him but maybe not the topic of disscusion. He's always have had the power when it comes to money to make me feel inadequate so I've always have let him make all of the financial decesions even if I haven't totally agreed with them. Then resent him for it.

So I'm looking at this as a major step for him to see I am actually trying to immprove myself & our situation.

Besides if it ends in the big D atleast I'm prepared to face it financially & doing it on my own.

I can see ,he is seeing the trying but does not know if he can trust it.He is wondering if this is one of my pet projects again & throwing everything I have into it & waiting to see how long it lasts. ( yes, I do tend to do this especially with hobbies )

UA time is a major struggle for him. He has a very stressful job ( I wonder if he doesn't make it that way for himself sometimes with his personality to put it bluntly he is A hole at times & does not have a very good working relationship with others in the company ) he starts working as soon as the phone rings in the AM usually 7:00 or 8:00 & is at until 8,9,10,11 or 12 sometimes.

The few & far between vacays we have is usually consumed with being on the phone with customers or issues at the office. Mind you not the whole vacay but a good portion.

So I'm focusing right now on being a haven instead of being part of the stress. Since we do see each other 2 to 5x a week. Depending on how the previous visit was & the hrs he's working that particular day. So wish me look that I do not commit every LB under the sun & more ! I'm going to need it !

Thanks 8th. My fingers are crossed for you for your budget talk. I think any sort of contact about anything, as long as it is positive, is good. Lower expectations for the budget talk for both of you just by viewing it as two people getting to know how each other feels about money.

What worked really well for me was to start the discussion about values, to see if we're on the same page. And then translate those values to goals and then figure out budget categories and % based on goal. Example: family is a high value for me. That might translate to owning my own home in less than a year, which translates to saving 12% of my income after taxes for a home. W values independence, which might translate into her whole paycheck used for whatever she wants or a split according to our income contribution...you get the idea, right?

If you jump into the category %'s too quickly you have no guidelines about what's important and what's not.

If you see h 2-5x week, that's pretty incredible already. I see my w 3-5x week, but only one of those x's is quality conversation for more than a few minutes.

As far as making mistakes. I've made dozens from d-day onward. They are all opps for learning and none have been fatal, irreversible, or irrepairable.

You have a great attitude 8th and I think that will carry you far in this process. It also sounds like your h still loves you so you'll have less work to do--mine is the "don't know if I still do...don't know if I can get the feelings back" situation.

Well to quote you .... the don't know if I can get the feelings back ... he maybe thinking that to & just not telling. Who knows sometimes ....

One day he says something hopefull , the next saying nothing ever changes. So who knows ....

Not been a good nite. Was suppose to have a family dinner grill had a grease fire ..... he was a 1hr late didn't call until 10mins before dinner was suppose to be served. So there fore food was almost done until the grill caught on fire by trying to keep everything warm & I ruined dinner.

Texted everyone & told them to make other plans since they were inconsiderate & didn't call either.

So anyway hope you had a Happy Easter ... I'm calling it a night.