26

Stage #3.

See, 26, I don't believe you have had your pound of flesh. I don't believe you have been compensated for what he did to your relationship. Notice I was very careful not to say, "What he did to you."

Frankly, I believe you deserve your pound of flesh. You have given him 26 years and a guy who should know better, screwed up and messed with both your mind, which it is YOUR job to get straight, and your 26 year relationship, which is BOTH your jobs to get straight. May not be fair, but it will take both of you.

So where is your compensation for all the hard work you are going to have to put in on the path to something a heck of a lot better than you have now? Where is the compensation for messing up things to begin with. Watch me get on my high horse, right?

I always like horses with short legs myself, less far to fall.

So what do we do about just compensation?

That will be the next stage. Think about it and before I go there with some of my more devious and hopefully just suggestions, tell me:

You with me so far? Please answer with enough words to convince me. This is hard work and I wanna know if I can keep going or stop and work on it some more. . . slave driver, grumble, grumble, grumble

Larry

I'm totally with you. I think that's where I am at right now. I want to be compensated for this nightmare he has put our marriage/me through. I have ways that I feel he can compensate me and I have voiced them to him. But he tries and it doesn't make the mark to me. He tries but I need more. It's like I need 24 hour confirmation and reassurance that he loves me and that this will never happen again.

I agree with everything you said thus far. I will be reading this info to him. In all honesty, he's not a fan of this site because he thinks it's onesided designed to bash the WS. However I have read things to him that proves that it's designed to correct the BS as well.

Ok Larry, bring it on! I'm waiting for the rest.

Sheesh 26, you led me right into it. Thank you.

Or rather should I say your husband did. And THAT is even better!


Here it comes. . .

Where do I start with THAT attitude. I mean his opinion of this web site. What a crock. For one thing, I am equal opportunity with my:



It is all about accepting what Dr. Harley says or not. If you accept, then you make progress. If you dodge, blame shift, make excuses, get arrogant, and totally lack humility, then there you go. Find a mirror.

I strongly suspect he has formed his opinion because of two reasons: First of all, he is trying to deal with you pounding on him. Since you like this site, he identifies this with pain, so he is gonna look around a bit and then find an excuse not to like it. But he sure did like it when you told him I was gunning for you, now didn't he.

So first step is that he has to really humble himself and not just do so on the surface, but deep down inside where it counts and with his training, he knows exactly what I mean.

The second reason is that he is embarrassed and shamed. He should have know better. Yea, he should have, which has nothing to do with anything except he can't figure out how to unload his guilt. So he needs to read my very long and detailed discussion on guilt that is in Other Topics. It is painfully long. It needs to be shortened with better examples and a more pointed direction toward adultery and how to handle guilt and shame as motivators for self changes.

Think he might enjoy the work? Think he might enjoy reading say the first 12 twelve threads here on this forum, especially you own? Want him to do it?

Think he might be impressed with the fact that a group of Chaplains from the military went to Dr. Harley for help?

Your husband knows, or should know, all about should, ought and must by Ellis and Beck. If he doesn't, he should (there is that word) as one of the foundation stones for Christian or secular counseling, which I presume he does. Give him the space to do his own research on this subject or explain it to you.

I didn't enjoy pounding on you at all. Felt it was needed for you personal growth.

Feel that way now too.

See, it is that your husband is a target.

Nobody can do what he does as a the leader of a flock, without a bit of charisma or maybe a whole lot. With that gift comes serious moral obligations. And he failed. Yet with that failure comes opportunity to be even better at what he does, if he is willing to not just admit human error and failing, but to also LEARN more than a superficial WHY.

As a target, he is always tempted. He is always looked upon by certain types who want a magic wand to solve their need for solace and empathy. And they want his wand to do the job, if you get my drift.

With the failure comes the responsibility of change. Yea, more stuff from the Guilt post and thread on Other Tipics. He is so not going to start out wanting to read that post if you make him. Tough! Let's see how willing he is to provide you with compensation.

What you want out of compensation, if you are wise, is HIS personal no excuses growth to match what you are willing to do to not only forgive him, but to grow within yourself as well. Heck, that is just a suggestion. You might want him to drop down and give you 50 push ups for all I know.

See if he is willing to do an arm's length, professional examination of this web site and Dr. Harley's methods. I know he is capable of doing it professionally because of his training. So get him to detach from his personal situation and do it dispassionately, if you think that is a good idea.

While I am thinking about it, some couple did a Harley based Christian counseling set of sessions in a local Church here. I found out about it after the fact. And I honestly have not asked too much out of fear that I would expose myself to more observation than I want on a local basis.

I have often wanted to approach Dr. Harley to see if he had ever constructed a Christian oriented or even secular plan that could be distributed at a reasonable cost to Churches who are struggling to cope with marriage issues or adultery within the ranks of their members.

It does occur to me that if I could only find someone in the business, so to speak, who would approach Dr. Harley, wouldn't that be wonderful. . . just saying.

I could keep this up for hours, but I won't.

1. I beat on you because I felt that you needed to unload your built and shame by dropping the stuff you were doing and start working on your own personal growth.

2. I believe the same thing applies for your husband except he has to add compensation.

How am I doing 26? Giving you ideas? Helping your husband, maybe? Let me know, please. I didn't edit this. Wanted to post it and then go run some errands.

Larry

Well said Larry. Today wasn't a good day at all, I can't get him to look on this site. He will allow me to read stuff to him. I printed up the questionaires and we're suppose to do them together, we'll see how that goes. He has this big male ego, so use to counseling others and acts as if he's ashame to have someone counsel him.

I told him what I needed him to do to compensate me, but he feels like I'm trying to make him a wimp or my male slave, that's the way he looks at it. I can't let go of the feeling that he owes me and he owes me BIG!

26

Watch this space.

Larry

26

I am going to give you a detailed answer to your question(s) as I see it and as I understand what is going on. Give me some time to do it.

Till then. . .

Adultery is like swimming around in a sewer.

So it is for everyone associated with the sin of adultery, which includes you, your husband, his adultery partner, her husband if any and everyone else associated with the sin. There is nothing UNIQUE or beautiful about adultery.

There is a script for adultery; those who do it say the same things, think the same things, and do the same things. I have read hundreds and hundreds of affairs. And it is always the same old same old. The script never varies. And long term, neither does the script for consequences intended or otherwise, all bad.

It is the same with recovery. The only real difference is that men and women are a little different because of the inherent differences in the way men and women think, politically correct garbage put aside. There is nothing unique about recovery. The path is pretty much the same no matter if it is King or Pauper.

The betrayed and betrayer have a slightly different path to follow to get out of the sewer, but not too much different.

Watch this space.

Larry

26

It seems to me that pride, your pride and your husband's pride, is getting in the way of recovery. Pride is keeping you both in the sewer, so to speak. But there is a life raft. And you look like you are busy trying to get in it and quit swimming. Good for you.

You have started down the path to losing your attitude. You have started but are not, not, quite all the way there yet, but you have started and gone a long way and that is a very good thing. It is not easy to do and I congratulate you for starting down that road. You will make it, I have faith in you. And you will be a better person for it.

Well, husband is a bit different.

He doesn't like this place because he associates it with pain. He clings to his pride because it is all the defense he has left. So the task becomes showing a different way he can have pride in himself, so he will throw away the chains of a false pride and gain that of true pride because he does the right thing instead of clinging to the old way of thinking.

He gets in the life raft instead of continuing to swim while claiming he isn't. He gets in the life raft. He quits walking in the weeds of a defensive attitude. He finds the true path to redemption instead of false redemption and YOU can help him and while you are helping him, you can help yourself.

Watch this space.

Larry

Feeling like giving up, he is so stubborn. I told him today I was leaving because I just can't seem to let it go, the discussing it and all. It's driving him away and I feel we are about to break. I can't get him to understand how bad this hurts and long how the healing process can be. We really need counseling. Dday 1 year anniversary is coming up soon. Need a quick fix, but there isn't one. Just not a good day.

I understand your pain and his.

I have more to say. Wish it would help to say it.

You both need counseling, the right kind. Have you considered the coaching center. They always start off one-on-one and you need help right now, dear lady.

Your husband needs Dr. Harley's wisdom in some ways more than you. And frankly, if a group of Military Chaplains on a directed mission believe in Dr. Harley, I have a great of difficulty understanding why your husband does not.

Well other than associating this site with pain. And that is pride leading up to carrying a stupid sign. I am seeing more and more churches adopt Dr. Harley's teaching in their own marriage counseling. Your husband is doing a willful disservice to his flock ignoring that trend.

I can give you more if you want. You had a breakthrough, why can't he? I was going to go into redemption needs to be associated with the affair and recovery, not something else.

And I was going to talk about Penance from a catholic POV, that's catholic with a small c.

You have invested 26 years. Don't give up so soon. It takes time to heal and there are many bumps in the road. Talk to Jennifer or Steve at least once, please.

Larry

26

I read a lot of stuff on this forum. There are some serious gems out there that can teach us. I found one for you.

It was written by Schoolbus, who I consider a very, very focused and wise woman. I think what she has to say would mean something to you for your present situation.

Please go read her thread, specifically where she discusses a conversation she had with her husband.

The rest of her thread is interesting as well, but the one for you starts like this:


Look down the page a ways and find her name, SchoolBus!

If you can't find it, let me know and I will do a link.

Larry

Hey Larry, I couldn't find the thread, so can you do the link for me? Thanks

26

It slid off to the second page. There is so much posting going on right now you sometimes have to go to page two to stay current. And if you leave for a couple of days, more pages.

Here it is!

Remember to scroll down if you are in a hurry and read the post that I quoted in my previous post. Otherwise, schoolbus is always a good read and someone to take seriously in all her observations about life and the tools it takes to survive.

I wish I could talk to your husband. Let me tell you my heart. My major at UofH was in something called cultural psychology and that has been my lifelong hobby. It fits with what goes on with this forum and my world travels. Most Religions, in terms of my personal beliefs that I suspect match your husband's and in my secular observation, usually provide a stabilizing influence on society. Not always, but usually.

I have had many friends who were pastors, priests and preachers.

I thus tend to understand their mindset and thoughts better than most. Just today, I welcomed a new Pentecostal Pastor to town and we shared a few jokes. I told him I thought he was an excellent stem winder and he told me he would rather start the ball rolling to get his flock to wind up their own stems. LOL

One of my best buddies in life was an Episcopalian Priest who died a couple of years ago. I miss Jay. One of my mentors while I was going to college was the Editor of the Texas Catholic Herald. With a few exceptions, a calling to the ministry is not one that will get a person great wealth. It is a calling and I understand those who answer the call.

I would really, really love to have a friendly chat with your husband. Have you noticed that new thread I have started?

Larry

Larry, I wish you could talk to him as well. I will mention it to him and see what he says. I know right of the bat he's going to be hesitant, but I think I can talk him into it. How would you speak with him? Via this website, email or telephone?

With the experience and training your husband has, it is within the realm of reason that he would pass me up rather quickly in learning the tools I sell here. And that would be a good thing.

26, you and I both know why he does not look at this site with favor. The best way for you to sell him on the merits of Dr. Willard Harley's concepts is for you to adopt them. And I don't know if you have done that yet. I know that you have received comfort here. It has been a safe place for you to vent. And that is not a bad thing.

But what have you learned for your personal recovery? That I do not know because you have not given me the feedback to gauge where you are in that process. I don't even know what tools you have adopted. I do see you reading other threads now and one post you made to someone.

THAT is the start. Helping others is the real start to a personal recovery. Well, that was MY start. It is for many people.

See, both the betrayer and the betrayed need to change themselves as a process of personal recovery from adultery. We all have the seeds of adultery in us. We all have the capacity to sin. And changing is scary. Changing is full of guilt and shame and remorse. Isn't it? With the adoption of the tools of life that we learn as we live life, we get past all that to contentment.

I made a wish. I will honor the wish by any means you select.

Larry

I am going to go over and post something on my posting thread that may have an impact on you. See what you think.

Larry

Family Dynamics Institute. Christian counseling approved by Harley, so I have been told.

Larry

Hey Larry, I've actually learned alot from MB. I can honestly say that the only thing that I don't agree with and haven't done was to expose my H affair to the entire family. I don't think that is necessary. I told some family members but not all of them. We are very private people and it's none of their business. I know that this is what Dr Harley suggest, but I don't agree with it therefore I will not be doing it.

The thing I love about this site is that I don't feel alone here. I don't feel stupid for feeling the way I do. People here identify with me, it's like we are one big dysfunctional family. I don't mean that in a bad way.

Sometimes I explain or talk to my H about my feelings and what this has done to me, and he can't identify, he simply doesn't get it. I've found the error in my ways on this site as well. I found out that I was emptying out our love bank by nagging and yelling and down grading my husband and what he's done. I didn't take responsiblity for where maybe I could have done better. Honestly, still to this day I don't see where I was a bad wife to even cause such behavior.

Anyway, I've learned alot here, I feel safe and at home. I have hope and now see light at the end of the tunnel. I've heard the testimonies of others and I see how far they have come from and realize that I can do the same. I don't know if I would still be with my H had it not been for this site. For that I am forever greatful.

26

Ask your husband to take a look at FDI, Family Dynamics. It is a fine Christian organization. This is a sneaky way to introduce Harley concepts to him.

Larry

This is so different for all of us but so the same in many ways, I've been married 23 years together 26. In the early years I think your every thought is about what your spouse will think and do and what your role is in the marriage when it comes to keeping your spouse happy. Then the children come and a little of that time for each other is now devoted to being good parents and some of the time together is put on the back burner. Both partners acknowledge that this is now okay in a way in order to be a good parent. A little of the conversation goes from being a couple to being parents and sometimes the exhaustion plays havoic with our sex lives, it goes from 3 times a week to once and that seems okay to some degree as well..
We touch a little less, we go out and build our friendships and our careers, all understood as part of being a well rounded person and providing a good life for our families.....Then when things calm down a little and we realize we have some extra time we haven't for a few years, we realize that we have lost a little of our partnership with our spouses....for some instead of working things out and getting reaquainted with our spouses they step out of the marriage with a stranger that pays some attention to them. I think a lot of affair people really don't intend to break up their marriage, they are just missing something that the need in order to make life worthwhile.
I think at that point in the marriage the spouses totally trust that their spouse just wouldn't do that, they have always shown that the were responsible and committed to the marriage and family.....
When it happens it is such a shock to our belief system that we feel like our whole world is ripped out from us.
This is the point that we actually look at what was wrong and why it did happen
If you are married a long time and have trusted for that time it is so difficult to re-build that and still believe in our partners.
So we stand today asking oursleves in disbelief shaking our heads thinking in a million years did I ever think I would be here with these thoughts

Wow, thank you for that. That's exactly what I've been thinking and my husband can't comprehend. I have made a copy and will let him read it, and then maybe he'll get it.