You are right. You are all absolutely right. That's what this forum is for ... to knock some sense into people. I will not be part of continuing a lie at anyone's expense.

My husband and I have been reading together the various agreements and articles on this site. It has been helpful. Here is his apology he wrote to me:

---

(my name), or better than that my Love of my Life,

I can not put in words how sorry I am for hurting you, the person I love the absolute most in the whole world.

I have jeopardized our marriage, love, friendship, companionship and all that we are together.

I AM SO SORRY!

I not only hurt you. I have hurt our children, our friendship with other people, your family and how you will interact with them the rest of our lives.

I have affected how your family will view you and our marriage.

I know that my actions were my decisions. They have nothing to do with you.

You gave your love and trust so freely and I have destroyed that.

I can understand the lack of trust you have in your heart. I know that it will take time to heal and maybe never will. I will work to ensure that you can trust me in the future.

I feel so much pain from my actions. I don�t know where I was that led me to my actions during that time, but I do know one thing: that I am here and that is with you for what I hope is the rest of my life. I have not and will not allow any event, action, thought, situation or excuse to place me in that environment again.

I promise you that I will come to you.

I always wanted to be your knight in shining armor. One that always loved you fullest, protected you from any care in the world, lifted you up, never ever hurt you, made you laugh and smile, make you feel like you are the most special woman in the world. I always felt that I would do these things forever. I realize that I am no better than anyone else. I have hurt the most precious cargo that I will ever carry in my life.

I realize how stupid and insulting it was to place you in such an environment following my actions. I never should have allowed that to continue after my actions.

You are the reason that I am who I am today. When people see good in me � I truly believe it is only a reflection of your goodness shining through me.

I do not know how to make up the hurt or take the pain away that I have caused. I truly do have so many great memories and love in my life, and of all the things I have done this is the biggest regret I have.

I want to be your bandage for the hurt, one that protects the wound from infection and also begins the healing process. I realize I need to place this above all else.

I do not know how you are so filled with love at this time, but I truly do see why you are and always will be such a great woman. You always have been and I know always will be an amazing woman that I am so blessed to have enjoyed my life with � simply put you are the love of my life.

I LOVE YOU AND DESIRE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SPEND THE REST OF MY LIFE WITH YOU.

Delta, here is a summary of what it takes to recover from an affair. Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? That would be a great book for you to read together. In it, there is a plan for recovery.

here

Thanks. I just ordered that book.

Regarding the two-part recovery plan, the first part has mostly been completed, but I don't have answers to some of my questions because the affair happened so long ago, and he doesn't remember specifics about many of the conversations. This is tough. I do believe he wants to be 100% forthcoming, but I want more information than he is able to provide.

Estrogen based memory is superior. He may really NOT remember some of the details you want, or remember them a day or two later.

Larry

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Hi my husband had a fool blown affair a year ago. I found out about 2 months ago. It happened a few times over a 3 week period.

We have been talking about what could started him having an affair emotions, attention, friendship, etc He says at that time he didnt see it as an emotional attention getter but after we read surviving an affair he says see it as an attention getter. I can admit befor the affair we had grown apart and was negleting each others needs (NO EXCUSE) but it is what it is. That's all the blame I take....He also seems full of regret I know when How and possibly why...But from her all lies the when the where she blamed him for everything she didnt do anything wrong..I can say that really bothers me that she isnt taking any blame...I told her and him I was going to forgive them do I want to see her no never...Let me tell you she lived in our house for a year the affair happened about 2-3 months after she moved in I'm pretty sure it stopped when he said due to the fact she started seeing his cousin who you don't know if he's carring any deseises did I spell that right?

Im thinking can we make it yes I believe so. I have my family on my side but They are believers of face it head on don't let her deside what I'm going to do or where I'm going to do that if he truly loves me he'll know he can't talk to her or anything in that nature..

But can I handle it I'm not sure because she's not remorseful.
We are working on rebuilding what we have lost..Attention,sex etc..I hope this is a start...

Thanks for letting me ramble on your post just wanted to let you know that reading posts like ours does help and really helps put on a perspective on things...

Yes, it certainly does. I've been reading through a lot of threads this morning. So sorry that you also experienced this double betrayal.

I have zero concern about my husband wanting to speak to or see my sister, neither now or in the years following their affair. I believe it when he tells me the exact date he decided on his own to never enter into a personal discussion with her again. I trust this because he's able to tell me precisely where he was and what he said. I wholeheartedly believe he learned his lesson and just never went there again.

I do believe she pursued him after that time and would -- as of a couple months ago -- likely pack her bags if he (or many other men) showed up at her doorstep to whisk her away from her life, but she is no longer my concern.

He screwed up. A lot. He screwed up by first betraying himself into believing that speaking to another woman (this supposed "safe" woman - my sister, our friend) about the tough things going on his life would somehow be helpful. In my view, their talks were a distraction for him during his failed attempt to avoid the inner conflict he needed to deal with regarding his dad and daughter. Is there such a label as an avoidance affair?

In the process, he betrayed his wife and his kids. I was here for him then. He knew it then, and he knows it now. He said he didn't share any information/feelings with her that he didn't share with me. According to him, there was no revelation of their feelings for one another. My sister would talk to me to gather information and lend support and then, unbeknown to me, would turn around and do the same thing with him.

He betrayed me and our kids again by lying to me about all of the above for 9 years and by not protecting us and keeping us away from this woman who we continued to trust.

By the way, we did tell our kids about the affair over the weekend. Separately. There were a lot of tears and upset of course, but I was expecting it to go worse than it did.

Our daughter (14) wanted more details than her brother did and talked more about her feelings. We expected this. Our son (12) just cried and cried and had a tough time putting his emotions into words. Their main concern was how we would be proceeding as a couple, as a family, and we reassured them that we love each other and intend to work through these betrayals and heal the wounds caused by the affair and the pursuant lies.

My husband apologized for betraying me and them and for hurting me and them, he talked about his failures, what his marriage vows mean to him, what I mean to him and what he hopes our relationship will look like in 10 years and in 30 years.

We also talked about appropriate boundaries, about how actions have consequences beyond what may even be apparent at the moment and about the importance of telling the truth.

They both said they were very happy we told them the truth about this. See? I don't know how I could have felt differently just last week. Of course they want the truth. Everyone would rather know the truth. Thank you all for clearing all that up for me.

Their other main concern is how their relationship with their cousins will be affected. We told them we don't really know, but since we will no longer be going to their house (any of us!), we will try to think of creative ways for them to spend time together. They only saw each other a handful of times a year anyway, and my niece drives now, so I'm sure this will work itself out. My husband apologized for creating this problem for these four innocent kids.

It was another heart wrenching weekend. But then they were off doing their thing with friends, laughing and having fun. I learned a little from them in that respect. I've been laughing and having fun somewhat but can do a better job of creating those opportunities.

Delta, I applaud you and ESPECIALLY YOUR HUSBAND for facing the music like that. This will be such a valuable life's lesson for your children. Dr Harley speaks about how his parent's openess about his grandfathers affair changed his life. It taught him how devastating an affair could be. He cites this as a reason he has never had an affair. Your kids get to witness first hand how devastating it is and how a healthy couple overcomes it.

And thank GOD you are not damning yourself to years of lies and cover ups. What a nightmare that would be!

Bravo to you both, Delta!! you rock, my friend!

Thank you, ML. It really is just one more relief that they know. My mom knows, too. I'm waiting a couple weeks for my brothers because one of them is on vacation.


Really? I'd love to read about that. Is it in the SAA book? I'm hoping I'll be receiving that today.

Another thing about telling our kids: we looked through family photos afterward, both from that period in 2001 and from other times as well.

The photos are evidence of a happy, loving, caring family.

What we see in the photos is real. It's tangible. It's lasted for 20+ years (from the time husband and I first met).

The other stuff -- the stuff not revealed in photos -- are the lies, the fraud and the crime committed against our family. It's the stuff my husband threw in the trash on his own many years ago. But that was wrong of him. We all should have had that opportunity, and now we're finally able to throw it in the trash together.

P.S. My daughter called her aunt a wh**e. I told her I can't argue with that. She's not blame shifting though. She's mad at her dad, too.

You know, I can't remember if I read it there or not. He used to talk about it alot on his radio show, though. If you click on the radio link you can listen to reruns of his old shows. They were awesome!

This (linked video) is about one mother's dilemma.
One of her daughters is dating her other daughter's X boyfriend.
I know it's not an exact "fit" with your situation, however, I think the underlying principles expressed at the end, are a good fit.
(It's a Dr Laura YouTube) (warning for any Dr Laura haters .... just DON'T watch)

Take care.


http://www.youtube.com/drlaura

Delta,

A few pages back you mentioned forgiveness. It is a gift you give yourself, but it is also a lesson you teach your children.
With regard to your sister, you are right you can forgive but that does not mean reconcilliation. With regard to your H, the person you will help the most when you come to the point of forgiving him is...YOURSELF.

I hope you will see that your marriage has now changed now that you know the truth. I hope your H will see this as well. You two now can be really honest with one another. You can communicate at a deeper level, and you can learn new tools to make your marriage better.


God Bless,

JL

Delta,

You don't mention how you found out about the affair. Did your husband tell you or was it from some other source?

Please, don't just accept his excuses for hiding it from you for 9 years without further introspection on his part. That is absolutely selfish on his part and utterly disrespectful toward you. Lying by omission like that so he can have his life the way he chooses is even worse than the A and the double betrayal with your sister.

You can bet if your OWsis told your other sisters that she was in love with your husband, that she told your husband too!

Don't let him off lightly for what happened. This isn't a simple, classic MB type affair that once NC is established and maintained, all will be well. Your husband destroyed what should naturally be a familial relationship between you, the kids and your family.

It looks simple from this perspective. But trust me, it isn't. If your mom, a sibling, any nieces/nephews, or one of your own children fell ill or died, you now have to keep your husband away from your sis. Oh, and by MB standards, you shouldn't have any contact with OWsis ever. so for folks like us dealing with familial AP's, we go into reconciliation bending the MB rules at times.

Can you imagine not attending your mom's funeral or being at her bedside if she went ill because your betraying sis is there? Oh, and even if you are there, you're alone because of your husband's choices in his "darkest hour". He won't be there to emotionally support you because of his selfishness. NC is NC.

Re-read what I wrote above. You might be in a major position of loneliness and grief one day. Do you think that if the above situation ever occurs to you, that it will give you an excuse to cheat?

(I'm playing devil's advocate here because I read alot of anger toward your sister and alot of justification on your husband's part. There is no excuse for what he did. He's married to you. Doesn't matter if OWsis stripped nekid and pursued; he's married to you. You were available to him. He turned to someone else. You won't even have the option of having him there for support, in certain familial situations, because of his choices. I speak from experience, because my dad has a terminal illness.)

As a BS with an OWsis, I can say that this changes things in so many ways. And these changes aren't for the better when it comes to family. You, personally, become the barrier between him and her. You do the work of maintaining family ties, without his support, and keeping things "normal" with your kin, when the situation is the furthest from being so.

Your husband is more than selfish. He has no respect for his own children if he could do that with their aunt and let things go on as business as usual. Your COM were very young nine years ago. If he had been honest then, you as a couple could have put barriers in place that would have saved your children from unnecessarily developing close relationships with their cousins.

You might not be able to follow what I'm saying at this moment, but this will *hit* you eventually. Now the kids will be paying an emotional price because there will be barriers in their relationships with all of their family, not just OWsis' kids. Your children will bear the burden of these barriers.

Graduations, weddings, showers, births, holidays, etc won't be the same.

And you can expect a lot of pressure from your family to *not* have NC. They won't want to continuously deal with the implications of it. Plus, since you were "friends" and had contact with your OWsis long the A happened, your family will act like you are making a big deal of it. After all, there was plenty of contact long after the incident and "nothing more" happened, so everything should be just fine. No need to take action now, years later.

I recommend that you contact a company that does polygraphs, preferably with examiners that were former law enforcement. Put your husband to the test so you can be sure that it wasn't PA and that there haven't been any other affairs. Don't let him know that you even have contacted a company until the day he gets tested. Surprise him. Hopefully you won't have any further parking lot confessions.

trust, but verify

also, another way to get to the bottom of things w/o sweeping his actions under the rug is to ask questions like, Who initiated? where did the kiss(es) happen? How? why didn't it go to a physical affair?

I'm sorry delta. They were definitely sharing something in their conversations if there were 3 kisses. And it seems odd that things didn't go further than kissing. kwim?

Thanks, RMJ, for your post.

My husband told me about the affair but only after I questioned him about it after something didn't click right with what another sister said to me. This is after I had gotten into a big fight with my cheating sister and had kind of come to the conclusion that I just couldn't stand to be around her anymore. But my husband had no choice than to tell me; he was cornered.

I know that in this thread I have not expressed the shock I've felt, the trauma, the unending sadness, disbelief, anger and outrage. It's been a living hell. All of these feelings of mine have mostly been directed at him, but yes, it's been directed at her, too.

At the time I started this thread, I was focusing my attention on family aspects of this situation, and that's mostly what's come across to all of you. But that's just one part of this messed up story. He has not escaped my wrath.


What do you suggest I do other than a polygraph? I will definitely take that suggestion of yours into consideration.

What does letting him off lightly mean? In your opinion, should I be mean to him or refuse to speak to him or act pissy toward him for a long time? <-- honest question


I agree and have thought about all of these types of events (over and over and over) and about the fact that I will want him by my side at them. I foresee that I will want to bend the NC rules at times, mostly for weddings and funerals. I'm pissed as hell at him AND her both for putting me and the rest of the innocents in this horrible predicament.


I agree. Do you think I should divorce him? I mean, is that what you're getting at? No matter if we're together or apart, I still wouldn't want contact with my sister.


I've asked all these questions and have heard his answers. I believe he might be posting his story here at some point, and if/when he does, I trust that he will be questioned intensely by the MB posters.


I agree that things were being shared. He tells me they didn't reveal their feelings about each other to each other. Maybe I'm a total fool for believing these answers. I don't really know.

I also agree that it's odd that it was only kissing (a minute or so all three times, I'm told ... as in not as much passion but more comfort) and no other physical contact. This is what he swears to. I don't know for sure because I wasn't there. He knows that if I were to ever learn otherwise, I'd be out the door.

What more can I do?

Maybe I should schedule a polygraph.


I am angry at my sister, and I am angry at my husband. At times I'm more angry at him, and at times I'm more angry at her. It's like ping pong. I want to focus on my anger, sadness, disappointment I have toward him and forget her, but I can't. And I want the healing to continue with him, but my outrage toward her gets in the way sometimes.

My husband has not tried in any way to justify any of his actions regarding the affair itself; he points no fingers at her and takes total responsibility for his selfish, thoughtless, heartless, careless, disrespectful actions.

For the past 9 years and even for a week or so after D-day, he did attempt to justify lying to me about the affair. This justification has ended as he now finally seems to understand how very wrong it was for a number reasons to lie to me, the biggest reason being the lack of protection the lying offered our kids and I.

Again, what can I do about it now? It's not how he should have handled it. He was wrong, wrong, wrong. He understands this now.

I'm still in shock, but most of my shock is about him, not her. She is a serial cheater and a seductive flirt who's always had an attraction to him.

He, on the other hand, is the kind of guy who, when he was single in college, left his dorm room after a girl he was studying with got naked and called him over to the bed. That's how he should have responded to my sister. That's who I thought he was. That's who he thought he was. But he didn't respond like that, and that image of him is gone forever. We can't get it back. Now we have to go on from here.

I'm not certain that I ever want to get to the point where I want him to take a polygraph. My honest thought right now is that if I feel the need for him to do that, I probably shouldn't be with him at all.

I don't know.

When a WH is doing all that he needs to recover the marriage there is no reason to punish him. You may feel anger at times, be mad, but these are not reasons to torture the WH.

Is the goal for the both of you to heal, or keep reopening the wound?

Expecting a WH to make changes for the better is not torture.

This is the place I feel he and I are at. I have no desire to torture or punish him. The goal IS for both of us to heal. I wholeheartedly feel we have a solid marriage worth saving.

I got the impression that RMJ thought I should be doing something different than moving forward with healing (i.e., "don't let him off lightly"); perhaps I misunderstood.

I don't feel that he's getting off lightly in all of this now, so I'm just wondering if I'm missing something.

We are talking, reading, crying, mourning, revealing, discovering, introspecting, loving, comforting. Along with that, I've yelled at him and have gotten extremely angry with him a few times.

I feel he has made (prior to d-day) and is making changes for the better. He is adamant that he learned from this affair and made a vow to himself to never put himself in the spot again of having discussions with another woman about personal matters ... of never going to someone else for any type of comfort or escape because he should be coming to me, and it wouldn't solve any problems anyway.

He (wrongly) thought that was that and why further destroy a family, both our family and my family? (fill in other justifications here) He wasn't alone in that wrong thinking because my sister and brother-in-law played right along. His wrong views about the benefits of not confessing to me were supported by others for years.

He now understands how stupid, selfish, hurtful and harmful that cover up was, and I think he's learning more each day about the consequences of his actions during and after the affair.

I am so very sad/hurt/angry/disgusted about both the affair itself AND the 9 year cover up. I have to deal with 1) his betrayal during the affair 2) my sister's betrayal during the affair 3) his cover up for 9 years 4) my sister's cover up for 9 years 5) my BIL's cover up for 9 years 6) all the time and discussions my sister and I shared during and after the affair - what an invasion that has been to me after the initial attack on my family 6) issues relating to my family including my kids' relationship with their cousins 7) my husband's initial belief on d-day and for a few days after that he honestly wishes I never found out, that he never planned to tell me ... before finally understanding why this view was so screwed up. (soooo many reasons, but what if he would've died, and then I found out? can you imagine all the trauma without me being able to hear from him?)

The way I see it, I can focus on all of that -- and I admit there are A LOT of strikes and much more than many people have to deal with -- or I can choose to focus on what he's learned, what I've learned, what are expectations are now and what our future looks like with us actively working on doing a better job of meeting each other's needs and filling our love bank.

AND I can choose to focus on the sweet silver lining of finally being able to divorce myself from my sister's destructive, toxic behavior for good.

Please, please someone tell me if I'm missing something by focusing on healing rather than focusing on the crimes committed against me.