Goblin,
Fred is a very insightful man, and he is right on. Other's have echoed his sentiments and I'm going to follow suit.

Here's another perspective: by being 'open,' you are not following any MB principles (at least that I'm aware of). I'm not expert enough with the material to say why that is; but it's logical enough to me, and I've had enough success with what little I know of MB to trust that you either fish or cut bait, you don't do both.

I understand you�ve done some reading, and that�s a good thing. It sounds like you�re trying to gain as much from this negative situation as possible. Do you understand that what you have gone through with your ww and this supposed friend is extremely traumatic?
Gob, you will be a different person AFTER you�ve given yourself time to process and grow from this awful experience. If you meet the �woman of your dreams� now, she will only be Ms. Right NOW, not Ms. Right for Goblin long term. KWIM????

Here�s another scenario: Ms. Right comes along and Goblin is madly in love, establishing the life he wished for. Now, you�ve already said you�d give WW a second chance. WW wakes up and wants to take advantage of the offer. Do you still give her a second chance when new potential Mrs. Goblin is just getting used to wearing your bathrobe?

I don�t know your age, Goblin, but I bet you�re too young to have that kind of complicated mess in your life.

Fish or cut bait, Goblin. I doubt you�ll get much help here if you don�t.

~opt

I make no apologies for being on an emotional rollercoaster and not knowing what I want from one minute to the next. It's the nature of the beast.

Advice seems mainly be to cut my losses and move on. So I'm trying to get my head around it as an option. In the half of the day that I hate and despise both of them, moving on seems the best option. Then in the other half of the day I'm full of nostalgia and memories of what a wonderful woman my wife was and beautiful marriage we shared, I want to save it. But then "she's a cheating, cruel, immoral excuse for a human being and you deserve better" is the endless chant from all corners. She can't be bothered to put any effort into it, she can't even treat me decently during the break up, and it takes two to tango but only one to walk off the dance floor etc etc etc.

I don't want to grow old and miss out on having a family etc whilst I wait for my wife to see the light, if she ever does. My divorce can't be final until Aug 2012 at the earilest. That's a long time in my 30 something mind when I want to give the years where I'm most physically able to my future kids. What a regret it would be to have if I waited and waited for the wife that never came back and missed out on my dreams of a family.

I feel like right now there is nothing that I can do to save my marriage. I've done and am doing the 'get a life' part of things. I think the unavoidable end result of that is moving on. It's happening quicker than I expected, fuelled by having their exploits thrust in my face on a daily basis by the OM and others that know him at work and I'm trying to self preserve through this. I'm an impatient person. I find it incredibly difficult to 'do nothing.' But doing nothing seems to be all that I can do to try and save what everyone is telling me is a lost cause to start with, including the wife! If it's such a lost cause I should be trying to make a new future for myself. My dreams for that alternate future include a family, a woman that isn't my STBXW.

Yep, I'm confused. I'm angry. I'm lost. I'm finding myself in the midst of a hellish new reality without my home, mutual friends, close friend that is sleeping with my wife, familiar neighbourhood, marriage, dreams and everything else.

I'm trying to prepare myself for the worst rather than tumble back into the deep chasm of despair from a narrow precipice of hope that my marriage is salvageable. I only recently managed to climb out of it. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than set myself up for something that never happens.

Goblin, if there's any place where people can understand the emotional trauma you're going through, it's here. If there's anyone who knows what you're feeling, it's me.

I wish I had a "magic potion" in answer to your problem and dilemma and something to ease your pain. But I do not.

This is a horrible and despicable thing for one person to do to another. Murder, by comparison almost looks appealing. What's worse, some people seem to not care how they hurt other people. The professional community has terms for people like these. Not that words and terms give us any solace.

All I can offer you is my understanding, sympathy and encouragement. Like you, my first impulse was to try to hold my marriage together. However, the more I learned, the less that became a possibility, no matter how much I wished it.

Just today, I learned that my soon-to-be ex-wife planned weeks ago to "put me through the wringer" once again over the car I purchased for her. Did you read that? She planned to cause me further emotional turmoil!

This is not a woman I want to spend the rest of my life pursuing. Thanks in part to the great people here, I was able to see her for what she is long before I would have accepted that knowledge on my own.

I too, had to wait before my divorce could be made final. It will come sooner than yours. Maybe you can pull her out of the fog. Maybe you can't.

But if you stick around here, you'll be a better man for it no matter how it turns out. That I promise you!

Totally understood. I think I can say with some confidence that we have all felt that way and struggled through it, or are struggling with it. You got married for the right reasons and not as a temporary commitment. You're an honorable man, Goblin.

I can't give you much advice. Only encouragement that you're in a good place if you intend to come out of this experience an even better Goblin. Fred said it best:


Oh, and take your time. Patience is crucial because these lessons are very complex; not easy to master or even grasp.

Good luck G.

Opt

I try and take strength each day from the fact that I haven't compromised my moral standing whilst they have both demonstrated that they have little. Sometimes I feel that it is all I have left, but I am determined to keep my head held high through all this.

I have no idea what lies she is spreading to maintain the support of her friends and colleagues. It seems no-one is willing to tell her of her abhorrent behaviour or the damage she has caused to me. There is only one person who I truly believe will do that - her surrogate mother figure E, and alas the STBXW is avoiding her like the plague. And even then, whether being given both barrels by E will make any difference I have no idea. E is horrified with her, having had all the sit down chats of "are you sure about the rest of your life" etc before we got married, and having been the one who helped her get dressed on our wedding day. I'm horrified that the STBXW (previously mutual) friends that were witness, photographer, dog handler at the ceremony have not had the guts to tell her what she has done. I know them all and can't believe that they would condone her behaviour. Yet they carry on with their sleep overs and fun as if nothing has happened. The FIL and BIL have never really had a talking relationship with the STBXW so I don't think there will be any pressure from them either. Just silent disgust which I'm hoping will have some impact. E has said that if she ever brings the OM to her house or to the family farm they will both leave in small pieces courtesy of her! Definitely an ally there.


Thank you all for your wonderful encouragement. I take heart from the fact that others have survived similarly horrid events.

Does anyone have any advice for next actions?

I'm aiming for deep in the dark, but getting annoyed now with the W not paying back her �1000 debt whilst splashing out on ridiculous holidays with the OM. I emailed her about it last week to no avail. I wonder if she's trying to force me to visit her to get the money. Before I went completely dark she seemed extremely keen to physically see me to "see how I am," but I managed to handle everything by email, txt or answerphone msg. I asked her to get the OM to drop off my mail in our shared doctors office, and have moved my car wreck from her drive to the scrappers so we have no reason for contact left except legal proceedings after she pays up. I don't want to contact her again, as it brings me out of the dark, but I do need the money. I know she would be horrified if I approached FIL about this, but I also know he'd pay the money up straight away.

I'm still not ready to come face to face with her - I am too angry. Mind I'm not ready to work a 20 hr weekend with the OM in 2 weeks either.

Hello Goblin,

I am a few days late, but welcome to Marriage Builders.

I just want to say that we all understand the rollercoaster of emotions that you find yourself on. One minute, you can't imagine life with anyone other than your spouse and the other you can't imagine life alone and want to be receptive to meeting new people. This sense of loneliness, I feel is part of what drives us to try to save our marriage.

People in real life (and here) may well be advising you to cut your losses due to your relatively short relationship and marriage. That might be the right thing to do for you. But you won't know for sure until you have taken time out to re-group and re-evaluate your situation.

Personally, I think that it is too soon for you to be going out with the hope of meeting someone. It won't be fair on the other person if they really like you and you still have a little flame alight in that torch you are holding for your wife.

It took me 9 months of working on myself, working through my emotions alongside giving my WS a second chance, which he didn't want to take, before I was even up for going out with my friends and even talking with new people. At the end of January, I decided that I wanted to divorce. The line of credit I had extended my WS had expired and I chose not to love him anymore because he is no longer a loveable person in my eyes.

I am not going to suggest that you have to wait until the ink is dry on the divorce paper, because in your situation that does seem a disproportionate amount of time but you need at least to be mentally divorced and I don't think that you have reached this stage yet.

I needed to complete the ride on the rollercoaster and wait for it to stop before I could go out without a thought of WS entering my head. I am there now, and happier than I have been for years (literally). It is worth waiting for.

Good luck and keep reading. BTW, a Harley book I read which was very interesting and helped shed some light on my situation is "Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders".

TM

The sitting on my hands is killing me. Damn my impatience. Damn my need to be always trying to fix a problem actively.

I wish they'd hurry up and get onto cataclysmic end of relationship so that at least one of them can have a taste of their own medicine, and I can make steps towards getting over it. I'm not sure I can give up on my wife until the fog has lifted and that manipulative nasty piece of work is out of the way. I know she has responsibility too, and will need to take that, but I still want to have one more try for all those hopes and dreams, those children, and the vows we said.

Goblin,
One thing I�ve learned here is that you can only control one person in this world. There probably isn�t much you can do to expedite the inevitable demise of their sick fantasy world. Nor do you want to- a natural death will be much more fulfilling; but you must wait.

But you don�t need to sit on your hands�as I�ve said before there is plenty of opportunity here to �get to work� on���guess who? Yup: Goblin. [have you identified LB�s you tend to engage in � even with people who aren�t your wife?]

So, focus on yourself and leave ww alone to meet her own destruction. There are plenty of stats to read from this site about how long their fantasy world will last if you seek that info.

Oh, stop protecting your WW and her irresponsible behavior! Go to FIL (maybe with her knowledge if you feel better) and get your 1000 clams. She is about to learn that she can choose her actions but she can�t choose the consequences of those actions; the embarrassment of having her dad bail her out financially is possibly the first lesson.

My ww is starting to get a taste of that lesson: just tonight she has started to hear there are rumors about her having a �boyfriend� in this very small town. She doesn�t like it, not one bit. Last summer (during the active EA) it was �I don�t care what people think of me, I�m not doing anything wrong��

opt

Yep. I'm a buyer who is now trying to rent! She talked the talk of a buyer before we got married, but turns out to be a renter/freeloader intermittently.

She was very much driven by her giver, and I am more a taker. She gave so much that eventually the house fell down because she didn't feel that I valued her giving enough. I expected very little from her in terms of the things that made us argue i.e. housework. But she felt she needed to do it all the time with her OCD tendencies. So I selfishly allowed her to keep the house clean and nice. She allowed me to do all the shopping, DIY, car stuff, bins, lawn mowing and taking care of her rental property etc, so we were both giving and taking to some extent, but she felt she gave much more than I ever did and wasn't appreciated. I definitely had lack of empathy with her situation. Never understood until counselling just how stressed out cleaning could be making her. Much of our problem resolved around demands, disrespect and more often my angry response during arguments. I used to argue badly - ie get defensive and assume I was being attacked rather than see that she just wanted to solve a problem. I made very few demands on her, but didn't react well to hers on me. She very much felt disrespected by me not meeting her demands, and I still didn't do anything about it. Eventually her giver gave up and her taker ran off with my colleague. I am now having trouble engaging my taker to look after me. I played the giver for a few weeks before and after the marriage broke down to the utmost of my ability, but I just coudln't do it anymore after I found out she was with N. Classic "easy going laid back type" + "highly strung control freak" relationship. She thought I didn't care, which was anything but the truth. I just didn't show her in the right way, and she didn't ask in the right way. Now she's with another highly strung control freak with OCD tendencies and an alarmingly workaholic nature.

So I did my 50% of creating the environment for the affair. I will do my utmost to not make the same mistakes again. Even the WW commented in our phone conversations before I went completely dark (albeit in a very patronising tone and only after the affair had commenced) that she could tell that I had learned "a lot about myself." Not that it makes any difference to her I'm sure when she's in someone else's pants.

I am going to visit FIL on his 70th birthday (I know she won't be there as she should be at work and I have the day off). I will ask him at that point if she hasn't yet paid up. She will want to kill me when she finds out. She already made a big play of how I have been "manipulating her family" after they offered to help me move out, and have been regularly enquiring after me to visit them!

This is when it started, and it went physical.

6 months married, subtract "A couple of months" for this.......

You where married without infidelity for only 4 months!!

Honestly, I think the best way to end the affair is expose to everyone the real beginning of there sexual relationship (Two months before she left) go to a super tight, super dark Plan-B, and let the divorce happen.

After the affair dies in 6 months to 2 years you can always attempt reconciliation then, if you still want it.





Oh, and one huge mistake you maid was moving out. BS's should never, ever move out.

Yep - am as dark as possible, and have exposed to all that I can including mine and OM workplace, friends and WS family. I have no doubt that they've concocted some vehement defence and denial tales for all.

I didn't really have any option about moving out. The house belongs to her. It was hers for years before I was even on the scene. Legally as we have been together such a short time I don't get to say it's half mine either. I was just lucky enough to inhabit it for 13 months. I didn't have any idea my marriage was about to end, or that there was advice out there for my impending situation at the time she dropped the bomb and told me to leave. If I, heaven forbid, end up in this situation ever again, and I'd better not as I think it would kill me, I will remember not to move out.

I dearly wish I had some evidence for it occurring prior to estrangement as it would allow me to play the unreasonable behaviour card but I don't. And neither of them will admit it.

Having a distinctly down day today. Been let down by 3 friends in the last 36 hrs with engagements, the most important being an Easter weekend trip to Scotland. Not sure I can handle driving the 350 miles there, almost past our wedding venue in the snow on my own. I feel so weak and pathetic that her telling me last night she wasn't coming has reduced me to tears. Ridiculous. But it seems such a lonely, cold prospect on my own, full of memories of trips with the wife to the holiday house, driving up there and back for our wedding weekend in the castle nearby.

And I guess the WS and OM will be living it up somewhere nice together.

Well I went, and had a lovely time. Even went to the cinema on my own and enjoyed it.

Am still feeling very much in limbo about where my future lies. I still love her. I find it difficult that so many dearly cherished memories of our times together, especially wedding and honeymoon have been so tarnished by her behaviour. And I still strongly believe in marriage being for life, and working at it to achieve that. But I don't want to waste my life waiting for her, or end up being cheated on again. She's in the fog. She's feeding an addiction, an infatuation with an extremely manipulative individual. I'm not sure I like who she has become. I hate her for hurting me so much, for turning my life so upside down in every way.

Oh what to do!

I'm so glad you went, and so glad it was a good time for you.

What to do?
Plan B until you're tired of it and ready to move on.

I guess so. Finally Suriving Infidelity arrived in the mail and I've managed to get reading. I don't know how long I can hold onto the tiny glimmer of hope I have left. Having to work with the OM is killing me and that hope slowly and painfully. I haven't seen my wife in almost 2 months, and I miss her, although I'm not sure anymore I want her back. Unless she makes some remarkable changes to herself and morals, and the woman I knew returns to being instead of this bizarre materialistic pretend version that seems to be happening at the moment, I don't want her to be anywhere near any offspring I might have. Her attitude sucks. She even lied about her own father having an accident. That is no way to behave, no example to set.

So I guess I just carry on.

It bites, no doubt.

What fun stuff are you doing for goblin these days?
Guys don't get manicures or facials... what do y'all do?

I've started reading non work related books for the first time pretty much since Uni, done an awful lot of socialising with friends, joined the local hiking club and started the online gaming again. It's all been fun. I've agreed to volunteer as a crowd doc at the 2012 Olympics, am going to book a kitesurfing hol just as soon as I've got the money and am off to do my usual stint at Glastonbury Festival in the summer too. All good positive things.

I'm lighter, fitter and starting to feel human again. I've been up to visit my lovely house in Scotland and am getting the final renovations sorted to be able to rent it as a holiday home (hopefully in time for the British Open at St Andrews, as it'll make 4 months rent in just 10 days for that!). I've seen my family more often, and have found an unexpected but fantastic friend in the STBXW's surrogate Mum, who is just fab. We never really knew each other prior to this mess - we'd met a couple of times and obviously at the wedding, but our regular chats since this whole blew up and I asked for her help are so much fun. I guess having medical life in common helps too. I've also become good friends with her daughters as a result of all this - so more silver linings. I've found that some of my closer colleagues have definitely crossed over into being good friends - I've been genuinely delighted and surprised by the wealth of affection and concern levelled at me by them. I had no idea I was so well liked and respected at work. Emergency Medicine isn't a very touchy feely environment, and people generally don't tell you what they think of you!

Life is actually OK at the moment. I wish it were different still. I wish my wife weren't with the OM. But at least my life is on track again. I figure she's no interest in being part of it and that is unlikely to change as long as OM is around. But one or other will get bored soon. It's a bit of a toss up which one it will be, but it will happen. Then it'll be decision time for me as to whether I still hold any love for her and wish to make the effort to reconcile.

What's the burden of proof in England? Have you talked to a lawyer or whatever you call them up there. For them to be professing their love 3 weeks after you moved out might be enough. Here in the states we only need to prove inclination and opportunity for adultery. Inclination would certainly be proven by the email. Are they seriously going to make you wait 30 months to get a divorce while your WW is parading around with a new boyfriend? If so, the laws are severely screwed up in England.

I'm waiting for them to come back off holiday. I expect to hear about my first appt in the next couple of weeks. I did ask about this in my initial letter to them. It's slightly vindictive but I'd love to serve papers on her at work on the first day of her new job for unreasonable behaviour. Given she did all this to me at a time when I had no car due to it being written off in accident, was starting a new job 5 days later and was ill!

Usually it would be quicker. It's mainly so delayed because we had only been married 6 months. She apparently asked her own solicitor already at my request when she was there about 6 weeks ago, and was told that there is no unreasonable behaviour as we were already "estranged" when the affair began in a physical sense. She swears blind she "never even thought about anyone else" whilst we were together. But I expect that is just script. The email I have is from the OM, not from her, and says something like "Thanks for yet another set of wonderful memories together. I love you so very much." Pretty damning I reckon.

Had an interesting trip to the FIL on his 70th Birthday this week. The STBXW was there unexpectedly, and I managed to go give him his card, wish him well, speak to her Uncle and leave without saying anyyhing to her. She was calling my name repeatedly out of the door as I walked down the farm lane back to my car. I kept on walking and it felt good. Then went to see her surrogate MIL and heard some interesting things. Apparently she looks awful, has put on about 2 stone, barely said a word all night at the 70th party to which I wasn't invited, whereas she is usually the light and soul of such social events. She hadn't washed her hair, had no make up on, and was dressed badly. She hugged the surrogate MIL so strongly that the MIL thought she was going to be taken aside and told that STBXW had made an awful mistake and can she help her sort it out. But that didn't happen - wrong occasion really as it was her Dad's day. The MIL is sure it's coming shortly though - they are going to meet up this week. I'm taking MIL shopping next week after this, so we'll see what is said. The MIL said she was sure that the OM must be out of the picture as STBXW looked so pale, pasty, spotty, ill and unkempt. Said she'd aged about 5 yrs! I know that the OM is still in the picture as they're off on spa weekend this weekend and to Italy in 2 weeks time.

Interesting that both of them are looking awful these days though. I know the OM is too as I had to work with him at the weekend.

In contrast - I've just been ID'd again at the age of 32 so am obviously looking young, and am feeling very trim, very happy and have had nothing but nice comments about my appearance in the last few weeks. I hope this was noticed when the STBXW saw me.

Watch this space!