Vibrissa, you sure sound experianced for only having 96 posts. What was your other name on MB?

Ha - no other name Bubbles. I've just been lurking here for over a year - and have read hundreds of threads - so I've absorbed a lot. I also seem to have an intuitive knack for MB.

Well, the one post above was made during a moment when I was feeling the give up feelings. Its hard not to feel like that when we are fighting, it seems a better alternative to fighting, every time we fight. Its very disappointing, and I tried to correct it. We are still having trouble talking, the things she wants are very specific, conversations I had. I really have a hard time remembering what I talked about during the extensive phone conversations. I have sat and thought about it. I can remember where they happened very well, but not really what was talked about.

I am sorry for posting while I was in a down moment, well in some ways I am sorry. But, I am sure everyone has those moments. So, I am not apologizing for posting it, as much as really apologizing for giving up. That is a renter attitude. It doesnt last very long, I usually snap out of it as soon as we stop fighting/yelling at one another. But the damage it does is very clear, and I am happy to have it here so people can see that it is affecting me.

Disclosure is my priority. I must finish my work, its contract based and I believe I would lose more than a job if I didnt complete the contracts that I agreed to. The reality is that work didnt interfere with disclosure... I did. I could have spent the time last night, I should have spent the time. Regardless of work in the morning. Thats not works fault, thats my poor choice.

I have learned a lot of tools to deal with her getting angry. This morning, I was able to use one I learned recently here on the boards. During the conversation that we were having, when she did get mad. I was able to not get angry. I told her that I was sorry that it made her angry, and that I was sorry that I had done it, but I wasnt going to get mad because she wanted me to. I think sometimes that she gets me mad just to shut me down. Its easier than talking it out. I dont know, maybe she doesnt do it on purpose, but it sure seems like it.

So, the bad day is leveled out. Not getting any worse. It really probably is going to get better today. I will make time for here, scheduled time, thats not even that hard for me to do. Its scheduling the emotional fallout, that I have trouble accounting for. It really makes me feel physically ill to talk about this I think. Who knew, and affair can kill you. At least it feels that way to me. I directly relate my feeling ill this last week to increased activity on working this out.

I am not giving up, I did feel like it early. I even expressed it out of frustration and anger... but I have not given up.

As far as the three years bit. I know, its ludicrous that I waited this long to deal with it. There were other issues I prioritized. Getting off the adderol, changing my schedule, we placed all the extreme measures on my life and really I started spending a lot more time with my family than I ever had before. I had trouble believing that this took 3 years, I even argued it once with mamasita, that it wasnt that long... time sure flies when your bottling it up.

These changes I went through were all because mamasita cared enough to help me through the hard times. She set aside her feelings for that long, not always successfully.. but she really tried to help me sort out a lot of huge personal issues BEFORE we dealt with the affairs.

Now that we come to it, and I can deal with the affairs. It seems like she is trying to make it seem like its too late, and that we cant talk about it anymore. This is probably a reaction to me changing and actually trying to talk about them. Its very painful, and I am still not doing the best at a timely disclosure of it.

I do not endorse the idea that she can NOT have me tell her about these affairs. If it seemed like that, I am sorry. After reading chapter 11 of surviving an affair, mamasita started talking about this. I was against it from the moment she told me about it. I do not think it suites our situation.

Time for some domestic activities and outdoor time with the kids. Thanks for letting me talk about this. I think this is very helpful, and I do appreciate the insight that people give me, into myself and mamasita and our relationship.

YOU NEED A 2 x 4 UPSIDE THE HEAD, PAPASITA.

HERE IT IS.

mamasita isn't "making it seem like it is too late".


Man, you are a piece of work.


She has waited three years for you to come clean about your affairs.

Three years.


She is practically a saint, and you are a bonafide idiot.

You have absolutely no idea, do you?

She has helped you through three years of getting your head out of your butt. She has put her own recovery on the back burner for three years.


You are just plain STUPID if you believe that you need to stop talking about the truth of the affair, and even more STUPID than that if you think that not answering her questions is going to get you farther down the road of recovery.


You said you need to do the math - that 12 hours of fighting was wasted, when it took 12 minutes to tell her the answers?


Duh.


Next time, do your cost estimate at the START OF THE JOB.


For crying out loud.


If my husband had taken three years to tell me his story - he would be divorced by now.


And naked. Because out of sheer frustration and anger I would have stripped him of every living thing he ever even thought of owning!!!!!!

No wonder she calls you names! So have I, and I haven't even been through three years of this with you!!!!!!!

Maybe she should have picked a guy without his head up his butt in the first place?

I dont see what calling me names is going to get you, or me. There isnt much more I can say about that.

Perhaps I am wasting my time here. I can see that you certainly feel that way schoolbus, and if I am as stupid and as big as of an idiot as you say, why waste your time telling me?

Are you looking for a way out of your relationship? This doesn't sound like someone who wants to learn and make amends, and get married and stay married.

How is taking abuse from schoolbus going to save my marriage?

From the TOS: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2096924#Post2096924

also there is

The 2x4 and divorce comments specifically on that one.

I would say that schoolbus crossed this line. Perhaps I dont understand what abusive is. I feel that being called an idiot is abusive, really its a disrespectful judgement at best, an insult is probably closer to the truth.

I have been here trying to sort this out. being called an idiot in several different ways, with pictures to boot.. doesnt help anything.

These rule are in place so people can be constructive here. At least that seems like it was the intention.

Maybe I misunderstood what schoolbus was trying to say, but it seems that I am not out of line in feeling a bit defensive about this sort of treatment.

If you really believe you are wasting your time here, then you are wasting your time here. On the other hand, think a bit before you react with a defense.

Irrespective of the style, what was SB trying to tell you? Was she right or wrong? On reflection, did it make sense? Three years is a long time. During that time, your brain processed the events and found all sorts of cognitive thoughts to stuff the feelings of guilt. Having to go back and examine again is really difficult for both of you.

But to clear the air, it has to be done. It is uncomfortable and full of minefields, but it has to be done, doesn't it? You guys have invested a HUGE amount of emotions dealing with BOTH of your approaches to marriage and family life. Why get hung up on one deal? Irrespective of all the stuff you had to work on, both of you, and irrespective of the order you choose to use for the job of starting anew, they all have to be dealt with and none stuffed into a dustbin, isn't that right?

You guys have made HUGE progress. And that is a good thing.

Think about it.

Larry

yeah it was defensive. see my above edits to the post I made in response to sugarcane.

I dont think I am wasting my time here. I do not have time to waste, this is very precious time to me... that I spend writing here. I am sorry if I come off like an idiot... even if that is the truth of the matter.

Not a waste of time at all.

Because you need to understand that her calling you names is part of the deal.


You MISSED the important part of my post, papa.


The part where I let you know that your wife has waited


THREE YEARS
for the truth.


I've only waited a few weeks, man.


And I'm kind of known for my patience around here.


So YOUR WIFE is some kind of saint, bro.

You need to get with the program, because you have had three years to get yourself in line


and you have taken advantage of your wife.


You come in with lots of excuses as to why you haven't told her everything.

Those excuses don't fly.


And you have zero appreciation for the fact that your wife has run out of rope.


She is exhausted with listening to your excuses - don't you see that?????


The 2 X 4 is meant to get your attention.


It is amazing to the rest of us that mamasita hasn't given you one already!

And if you READ the post - the line about DIVORCE was about


MY HUSBAND

not about you.


It isn't always about you.

You might want to take a look at my history. I don't EVER use profanities - and didn't with you, either.

My purpose was to shake you up. Get your attention. Get you to understand WHY your wife was yelling at you and calling you names.


Because - think about this - I have seen you making excuses for how long here??????

Not long.


Your wife - she's been sitting there alongside you for THREE YEARS.

Listening to the excuses for NOT TELLING HER THE WHOLE TRUTH

for THREE YEARS.



That is akin to sainthood.


Consider for a moment how long you would let this go on if the tables were turned, papa.


If your wife had slept with OM...and you knew it...how long would

YOU

WAIT FOR THE TRUTH?


Given your reaction to this 'Bus, I can guarantee it would not be



THREE YEARS.


Nope.


Probably not even three days.



So, can you understand why your wife is calling you names now?????


and what my point was????



SB

I agree with most everything you say schoolbus, except for the part where you think you can treat people badly to get good results.

I pretty much hear you excusing yourself for abusing me because you think I deserve it for what I have or havent done for the last three years. I would argue that there is not a reason for you to treat people with disrespect, and call them names. I would go as far to say that the terms of service that we all agree'd to, say very SPECIFICLY, that you should not be treating people with disrespect.


Its hard to see what your point is when I am sitting here having to defend myself against your attacks. I have avoided it several times with your posts, but today I really was already on edge, and wasnt really into having some random stranger who has been listening to me post for two weeks, call me names.

I can understand mamasita's anger, probably as well if not better then the rest of you lot. I think she has every right to it. Its a long time coming. I am learning to deal with it in a constructive and positive manner, thanks to the help here. I think I have already come a long ways in talking to her.

I would also add that I think that there are much better ways of getting peoples attention, You shouldnt have to go around with a big stick and call people names. That just makes you look mean.

Okay, I'm sorry that I called you an idiot. You obviously are hurt by that and I feel badly that I took that approach.



My points still remain unanswered.

An interesting side story:

In a previous relationship there was an affair where I was the BS. It was a long term relationship. It was a very rocky relationship. There was several affairs during that, and I stuck it out. The way that relationship was, it was fine. Then later there was the revelation that she had an affair with my best friend. In every way this hurt me, even though it was "ok", per the rules of that relationship.

I admit this was very hard to let it go. There was some time where I couldnt. The best friend is not really a good friend anymore, although I still talk to him sometimes. I am not spiteful now, it was a long time ago. But, at the time it hurt badly.

This just makes me a bigger jerk I suppose, because I have some rudimentary understand of the pain of betrayal.

1. Three years to wait for the truth.

2. Your wife has brought up the idea that you want to "move on" and she is entitled to have the truth, not wait any longer.

3. Excuses do not allay the fact that there has been a very long time - through which your wife has been willing to wait - for you to recover from several problems (drug withdrawals, etc.). Her request for the entire story at this time would be considered reasonable by nearly anyone reading the thread.

4. The idea that you were still willing to fight and put off, for 12 hours (your words, not mine), even a bit of information that took 12 minutes (again your words) on its face seems - illogical.

My wife calls me names because I betrayed her trust. In fact holding back the information is further injury to insult.

I do not have the luxury of that excuse, I should not be calling her names.

I am very indebted to her, I can really appriciate what she has given for me to even get to the point where I am now.

I better than anyone, other than her, understand the amount of time that has passed.

Not telling the whole truth is a lie. Lying reminds her that I betrayed her trust in the first place. This is the reason she gets angry when I am not forthcoming in every way possible.

Right.

So, why do you keep torturing her?

I put off talking out what I had disclosed last night, because I felt like it would take all night. This is a catch 22, and in every way is illogical. I was not claiming otherwise.

It was a very poor choice, I am the first to admit it. Also, we didnt really fight for 12 hours.. thats an exaggeration. The night was not the best, but we both slept reasonably, and the fight this morning was not more than 15-20 minutes. But it has been VERY uncomfortable. I apologize for exaggerating.

What I mean by that, is, that there did not need to be the 12 hour delay.

It could have been an immediate answer

instead

YOU CHOSE

the 12 hour delay


and the torture in between.


Do you see that?

It was a CHOICE.

I was afraid of another sleepless night of fighting. We have really done that many times. I need to let go of that to though.

I need to let go of all these things
1) Anger
2) Fear
3) Sense of Entitlement
4) Expectations of Reciprocation (she does not have to be nice, I do)
5) Bad priorities