Grab those undies. You can order a kit to get them tested for sperm. I imagine it probably is a black guy, just because of her history. So figure out who she works with that is black.

Stay calm. I know it is horribly hard, but you need to keep your sources safe so you can get the whole truth. Then you can expose the affair which gives you the best chance of ending it and saving your marriage.

And by the way, are you in the military and still facing more deployments?

The point of any kind of "snooping" is to gain irrefutable, undeniable PROOF. Anything a WS can possibly cover-up or plausibly lie about, he/she WILL.

I understand that there is utility to GPS/VAR and they can be helpful. Unfortunately, like in this case, they can also be 'suggestive' while still not being definitive. Your obviously-WW will probably still DENY because all you have are two garbled voices and muffled sounds that she can make up excuses for. It sounds like all you can PROVE thus far is that she had a conversation with a man and later there was "moaning" in the distance. She's gonna BS-the-heck out of you if that is all you have.

Buddy, GET INCONTROVERTIBLE PROOF ASAP so you can do effective exposure she can't twist her way out of.

1. TEST THOSE "STAINS" against your DNA right away!
2. Meanwhile, HIRE A PI to get photo/video proof and to find out WHO THE OM IS and all about him.

I know this costs $$$, but you need to know! You need more than an anonymous stranger's voice.

PERSONAL NOTE: I had friends who knew me/my WW well--they warned me "something might be up" and begged me to hire a PI in 8/06. I was in the same mental state you are in right now (hurt, confused, afraid, "drinking her Kool-Aid", etc.) and chickened out on doing it--MY BIGGEST MISTAKE AND BIGGEST REGRET!!!!

Please....do it without delay. I know what I'm talking about here. Every week you delay proof+exposure is more time for WW to become more emotionally-addicted, more self-entitled, and more likely to co-apt your potential exposure targets with her lies, cover-stories, and scapegoatings. Been there!

Thanks B, I feel better already. I feel like I do need to talk to someone, but posting now seems to be theraputic.

I feel horrible right now. I know she is alien and I have read many theads about how WW act......but D@MN!!! She has been flat out lying to me our whole marriage, knowing the pain I was in over the years!!!!

How can she sleep right now knowing what she is doing to me and NW5??????!!!!!!! I know all parents say this but he is the cutest, most knid hearted boy in the world.

If I grab the undies she may notice they're gone? I like the idea but I don't want to push the A even farther underground if she thinks I grabbed them.

I have been deploed four times in my 11 years of sevice (only one combat). There are always rumors about when the next one will be. I would guess another one is on the horizon in 3-4 years.

I know I need a plan, words and ideas are flowing freely from my hands right now. I think I'm typing 100wds per min here.

To clarify, she does not know that I know. The talk was just about how I feel guilty for ruining our marriage by my jealous actions. I know it's not my fault, I just wanted her to feel guilt and guage her response.

No lawyer talk tonight please, no offense, but I know......

Yeah, I agree. Get a kit quickly and test those. They're not always 100% but pretty damn accurate. At least you know something is going on. I'm sorry this is happening to you. Keep your chin up and take care of yourself.

Now What

So now you know. Good job of spying. By all means, keep it up.

What is your plan from here? This is her second, right? All sorts of things must be running through your head. I have some thoughts I can share with you when you are ready.

What does your intellectual side say to you?

Larry

That's all I can do now. I can't change the past, I can decide how I'm going to react this development.

I'm going to try and stay on the high road, If there's one thing that I can hang my hat on after all this, I want it to be that.

I'd like to echo Larry's comments here, particularly in light of the latest developments. And that pair of panties? Hold as evidence and get it tested as suggested.

I also suggest hiring a PI at this point to gather more evidence for you. And put processes in place to protect your finances (e.g. no joint credit cards, limited funds in joint accounts, etc.). Your WW is actively deceiving you and working against your interests - there's no telling how far she'll take that.

What do laws state about marriage and adultery in your location?

I would grab the panties. Then throw a load of wash in and maybe she will think they got lost.

Don't worry about alienating her further, because your marriage is already in great danger.

WWs are evil creatures, period.

Enough with the talk of your part of the blame in the M. You've said it and it's out there. No matter how bad you were, there is no justification for her betrayal. At the most, cop to 50% of the responsibility for the M being in the shape it was in pre-A. She owns the other half.

I made the same mistake last year and looking back, I feel my overwhelming guilt and apologies further fueled her justification and entitlement.

My itellectual side tell me it's the same OM that gave her the CD (#2 then). I would say that she is love with OM. I remeber reading other threads about this, I don't exactly remember the specifics. Somehow that was better than multiple A's with multiple OMs.

If it is who I suspect, I checked his FB last week and he is listed as in a relationship with....someone, same last name though. I am FB illiterate and I was afraid the OM could see that I was checking him on FB.


I have al night Larry so please share.

SoL, I don't feel that way! I was just laying on the guilt to see her reaction. And maybe trying to get a little revenge, (I'm starting to feel bad about that now. Not really the high road.)

Well I can tell you that OM can NOT tell who is looking at his page unless you post something on there. Is it an open profile? If it is, you need to go on there right now and get all of the contact info for all of his friends. You will need this list to expose to his friends when you KNOW it is him. Get all the info about him that you can from his page.

Maybe I misunderstood here. Were you trying to make her feel guilty, or were you expressing your own guilt?

I am so sorry you are going through this, but I had a very strong feeling about it the first day we talked. I am so glad you are here getting some help.

Just stay focused on being the best father you can be for your son right now. He is really going to need you.

Well, you need to make sure 100% it's him. No use throwing unfounded accusations out there. And don't worry about the OM, they're cowards anyways. As far as his FB page, I believe he won't know you've been to his page especially if you're not on his friends list. You're just reviewing his limited info. Once you know you have proof positive 100% that she is still active, EXPOSE! If those panties come back positive, EXPOSE! If the voice recorder give you 100% evidence EXPOSE!!!! Good Luck! I'm pulling for you!

Scotty is 100% correct. Do this tonight. At least view all of POSOM's friends and write down their names from FB. If he blocks you later, you can still send a message to each one after you have confirmation.

Five years is a long time for an affair. This leads me to believe,if I got it right, that she is in it for the excitement and so is he. It really doesn't matter if it was the same guy or not, it is about the excitement, the endorphins.

And there is absolutely nothing you can do with someone who is hooked on endorphins. It is what it is and it is like trying to deal with a drunk or a druggie.

Sorry NoW. That is my opinion based on what you have revealed, especially from your intellectual side.

Let me give you the VERY real downside. I think it was Betray_Dad who started it and MiM has wisely given his opinion as well.

Do you want to be an every other weekend dad, and depending on the state you are in, financing her "Activities" with "Visitors" who provide her excitement and also provide your boy with a view of mommy that is just so not right?

Don't blame any part of this on any part of you. She owns what she is doing. My suggestion is that you get your butt to a rabid Lawyer who will tell you how to protect YOUR interest so YOU can protect YOUR son.

And that means tomorrow.

What do others think, please? Even with the backing from MiM and BH, I could be off base.

Larry

I've asked RIF to chime in here. Hopefully he will. He saved his marriage after several affairs.

I tend to agree with you Larry, but I'm hesitant to advise that. I really think NW needs to really think about what HE wants in his future. Does he want to recover the marriage? Does he want to cut his losses and go straight to Plan D?

I can really see the possibilities in both. Even if the recovery option does not work, isn't one of the greatest points of this program the fact that along the way it prepares you for Plan D anyway?