Hi I have a question.....is there info around this site about what role friends & relatives play in marriage??

I am all mixed up on a big issue.....my spouse revealed to me last night that his top EN's are not what Dr.H typically has for men (RC/SF).....he said that is sterotyping all men and that neither applies to him...told me his top EN is male friendship...said that this is what is behind his behavior toward our marriage and family. He is only close to one of his brother and has no other close male friend and desires that. So it is top with him.

He explained that SF might be #1 or #2 say when your 16yrs old but not as time goes on. It's maybe 4 or 5 in his EN's....I was stunned by this to be honest. But I shouldn't be....I have always wondered how he could be happy with taking job that requires him to work so many hours/weekends and live for 2wks away on his own...heck if they have a problem at work he'll for go coming home on his scheduled weekend and wait until 2wks later....so I have suspected that SF was not in the top area for him based on this.

I Used to ask him "don't you miss me and the kids?" I was really thinking how does he manage w/o SF? I know it's been really hard on me....I began to engage in self M to relieve it..and have dealt with guilt over that....but I even did this when he is working local job as we could go for 3wks with nothing....even when we were younger...in 20's and 30's....we are now in our 40's.

At first I thought he was saying RC was his top EN...as I thought that was why he would only take time off to go on the hunting trips with his brother and brother's friends up there....I figured he had a strong bond with this brother...you know Dr.H says the person that meets your top needs makes massive love bank deposits and that person is who you'll be close too....Dr.H also said as the spouse we need to be the one that spends our most enjoyable moments with so nobody else fills those shoes...I am not quoting here just saying it as I read it.

So I am left with no way to meet spouses top needs....I am not a male and he insisted it's not RC it's being with other males...that he desires most in his life....told me this is WHY he has treated me the way he has....and that his taker comes out in full force when the opportunity presents itself to fill that need....so if I say hey you went hunting last weekend for 4days let's us do something this coming weekend he says NO and goes hunting instead. I hope this is making sense to someone out here cause I feel like I have been blind sided.

I get we all need friends and I don't want him friendless....the problem is you can't be married...ignor your wifes needs....work crazy hours home/away....spend all free time/vacations with brother or a male friend and think this would make any woman happy.

He said he really doesn't get why I am uspet over this until recently...says he thinks he may understand some now.

He doesn't enjoy conversation....says that's why he doesn't have another close male friend that is very difficult for him and even with brother he only can tell him so much...I get that as this brother is different than my spouse he is a gossip and would blabb your problems or private stuff all over to everyone in a nano second.

I told my spouse there was no one that I desired to be with more than him....that I love my 1 friend very much but I have never had the desire to take 3,4,5 day vacations with her...I said I love my Mom and enjoy her company but once again I have no desire to spend all my time with her.

He didn't say I misunderstood or anything just that he was aware I had no idea what his top need is and that's why we are getting no where as I can't meet that.

Since SF isn't even something I have that he rates up in the top 2 I am well stumped to be honest.

I knew he didn't want to be with me much...I mean actions speak very loudly...if you schedule your work time like that and are okay with it and your off time is given to a friend like that it tells me that your really not all that interested in me....I can't imagine why he married me or anyone for that matter.....I told him I feel total worthless and rejected to my soul.

He doesn't like that I don't like his brother....the reason is simply I was/am jealous of the time the brother gets and I get none. and now he wants to add another male friend to fill up the top EN for him.....so where do I ever come in?

Once again he insisted that he has looked inside to see the "why" of his behavior and this is what he has determined to be true...this is what has driven his decisons and choices.

Says he knows what my needs are but that he doesn't think he can live up to the expectations I have....for UA and get aways together and starting some type of activity together....I know thats code for I am not interested in doing that.

He has agreed to try to meet those needs for me BUT if I am not meeting his top needs it won't work....right?

Short of becoming a man I can't meet the top need. and Sf is ranked so low I don't even have that one.

Conversation is low for him also....he said it's not like I can't be his friend but he wants a male friend.

He is confusing me....I suspect he feels some what guilty right now and kinda sees how I feel lonely and neglected to some degree....so I think he's gonna do some stuff with me but in his giver mode for a season...which means it won't last long as it will trigger his taker again and the cycle goes on.

I know men need friends like women...please don't misunderstand....it's just that you can't work 60-70hrs per wk....and use all your best fun time being with men and expect to have a great marriage.

I all the yrs I have been married I wouldn't dream of scheduling vacations with female friends....we have such little time together that I would never go spend it with someone else but he desires to do this and I am stuck.

2 of our boys don't like the hunting and are left out also....only one enjoys it and goes on a few of the trips as he doesn't like to go up so much.

So even if I tried say some outdoor stuff like canoeing or something it wouldn't meet his top need cause I am not a male friend....no wonder when we have done some stuff I can sense he is not enjoying it....he wants to be with other men. He works with just about all men...like 99%....so he said he gets some interaction that way...but he's not real close to anyone.

I don't know how to proceed here....I admit I was very jealous of all his trips with brother.....I kept thinking why does he not miss me? why does he not want to be with? what's wrong with me? No wonder when I did the MB plan by myself yrs back it only worked a little...I was trying to meet RC/SF and while he responded some it wasn't enough for him to desire to be with me.

I did say this to him...and he never once said "no dear I desire to be with you....your 1st place in my life" and here I am saying all that to him like a pathic fool.

Do you think he is confused? would counseling with Dr.H help? I don't know what to do.

Oh there is a thread in MB101 Am I jealous and that gives more details too...this today is all new. and I posted it here cause I really feel my spouse has the equivalient of a EA with his brother and there is a long bad history that went on in our marriage that has made me feel like brother is his mistress....I can explain further if anyone cares to here it...geez this is so long I apologize....

gemstone, i got this far and stopped because when the basic premise is wrong, what follows will be wrong too. Y'all don't understand the context of emotional needs. When we speak of emotional needs, it is in the context of romantic love. Emotional needs are the building blocks of romantic love. When you meet his emotional needs, romantic love will follow, and vice versa. So it makes no sense to say that your H needs to have "friendships with men" to fall in love with you. That would be silly.

That being said, i am sure that your H's friendships with other males is his favorite thing to do because he has neglected his marriage. If he would give the same time and attention to his marriage, his marriage would be his favorite thing. Basically, your husband is a freeloader, though. If your marriage was a house, it would be falling down around him because he does nothing to keep it in good repair.

Secondly, Dr. Harley does not stereotype anyone's top EN's. He clearly says everyone is different.

Please get the book and study this stuff so you understand it. Call up Dr. Jennifer Chalmers or Steve Harley and get phone coaching. They can help you turn your marriage around.

Also, when a spouse refuses to meet your needs and engage in the marriage, it calls for stronger action. Check this out When to Call it Quits

Hope you read the article, because it is a good one.

And by all means, try a counseling session with the Harleys. I would pick Steve since hubby seems to value male opinions more.

It is possible that if your H is getting his top EN met only by being away from you, that he is meeting someone else and having an affair.

In an article written for this site, Dr Harley gives an example of a group of men who went on all-male hunts regularly. They did not tell their spouses that a secretary accompanied them and had sex with all of them. I will see if I can find the link for that article, but in the meantime, this one, Recreational Compansionship, should help you.

Do you think that it is possible that your H has latent or active homosexaul tendencies? I'm sorry to ask this, but the way you describe his insistence on being with other men, and his lack of interest in SF with you, makes this a red flag for me.

Melody....thank you for replying....I totally understand the EN's...did the program alone about 7yrs ago trying to win my spouses attention back.....HE keeps saying I don't know his top EN that it is for male friendship....and I kept saying that wasn't a EN per what Dr.H lists...infact it's not on the list...and that he must mean RC is his top need....doing recreational activities.

I am sorry I wasn't clear in my post....we are supposed to go over the EN's again....I hope I can get him to do the questionaire....and maybe then he'll change his mind or understand it.

He really wanted to stress to me that he has to understand the WHY or the REASON for his behavior and this was his conculsion based on several things...."that he has a strong NEED for male friendship" and cause he doesn't have one other than the brother he spends time with it causes him to act in ways that disreagard my needs to fulfill his needs for this.

As far as Plan A....I did that yrs back along with the meeting RC/SF...RC is difficult for me to meet for my spouse as he seems to make it a very limited choice....has to be hunting. Since I won't go hunting every other idea I have pales in comparison....you should see him when he comes home from these trips....he GLOWS....he is on cloud 9....it's like he's been with 10 super models....truly I am not making this up....I can't say I have ever seen anything I have ever done have that kind of effect on him....it's like he has a mistress when he doesn't...the behavior is so over the top.

I know he has put no balance in his life....too much time at work.....and RC spent in only one way...we need balance so ALL of these things can be met and nothing has to be tossed aside.

I am not able to do plan B but I know it would snap him out of it. If I had a job I could try....I doubt he'd move out....I have 3 teen sons....no where to go....I am looking for work....but since I have limited skills...I will most likely only get a $8 job offer if I am lucky.

If I can get Dr.H to talk with my spouse maybe he can clear up the "fog" going on here.

So should I just ignor what he is telling me....meet the 2 top needs Dr.H says and let him know mine in detail and how I want him to meet them and see what happens???? I am thinking I should at least give this a shot...he didn't say he wouldn't try just that he thinks he can't meet my expectations....I guess this will have to be my plan and see what happens.

Sugarcane, my XH was exactly as gemstone describes, in that his favorite recreational companion was his huntin' buddies. We had no marriage at all and he eventually left me for a woman who goes huntin' with him.

What gemstone needs to do to resolve this is to build a compatible lifestyle where they become each others favorite recreational companion. They don't understand that the mission here is to create romantic love, not to just meet emotional needs in a vacuum.

No sugarcane for sure no no on the other....he isn't saying he doesn't like women or that he doesn't like sex just that its not the top EN's like Dr.H is saying...I think as he is totally confused what EN's are and he is looking for a way to explain his behavior toward not spending time with me.

He explain it that his father dying when he was young (28) father was (55).....that he missed out on all that male bonding stuff....and he just desires that...that's what really draws him to the hunting...said it's really not the hunting per say but the fun friendship with the guys thing....I get that....like girls night out...just he goes for more than part of a day to meet it and doesn't have much else going on but work the rest of the yr....maybe boating with his brother...that could come up now since he has a boat now.

I doubt that this is going on while hunting....but I am not there so....but our youngest boy goes some of the time and I can't believe that could happen to be honest. To my knowledge there are no women there except neighbors that live in the area that are married.

I was going to say the same thing.

Yes we took those vows...in fact I have brought them up to him....he just doesn't SEE IT the way I do...so bringing them up doesn't really impact him from what I can tell.

THIS IS IT....ITA....this is what I have been trying to get my spouse to pick up on....he has read the website here...told him about it 4month's ago but he seems to act like it is alot to grasp and since work is so busy it doesn't get alot of attention.

Geez...I think I will ask him tonight when we talk about EN's...that I need for him to tell me if there has been any ONS or any women up there on these trips and who they are exactly....I don't know anyone except his brother and my son.

gemstone, almost everyone who practices independent behavior has a hobby that makes them feel this way. But when they fall in love that all changes. You most certainly do not have to go hunting with him to meet his need for RC. That is the black and white thinking of someone who is not used to using POJA. Dr Harley, for example, was an avid outdoorsman that loved hiking, camping, hunting and he gave all that up for something he loves better, his marriage. Joyce will do none of that and he doesnt miss it a bit because he has a passionate, romantic marriage. A marriage in which one is IN LOVE far exceeds the "glow" one gets from any recreation.

But you have created incompatible lifestyles that won't allow you to be in love [separation].

And yes, you can go into Plan B. You could get a legal separation and ask him to leave. In such a situation, he would be required to pay the bills. But first, I would try Steve Harley to see if he can sell your H about getting on board.

I wouldn't ask that. He is not going to tell you. The best thing would be for you all to go to a Marriage Builders weekend. Could you swing that? It is just an awesome program. They assign you a coach and you have daily access to Dr Harley. They GUIDE you through the entire program until all the assignments are complete. And if your H didn't get on board, Dr Harley would give him a "talking to."

Melody thank you....I feel like you understand me...since your spouse was in the RC/hunting thing....please to the people wondering about his sexual orientation it's nothing like that at all it's like what I am describing and thank you Melody for understanding exactly what I am saying.

I have been feeling like a nut case. Now I feel clear.

I will ignor his "fog" talk that's how I am looking at it now....let it roll off my back...I will continue to meet his needs and since he has offered to take a get away for us we will do this and I will pour it on thick....and let him know my needs. I will make sure to stop ALL LB's....and be fun and happy to be around....upbeat. Maybe this time the spell can be broken.

And I'll try to sell Dr.H again tonight....he seemed open to it just said he didnt think or know if he could open up and talk to a psychologist as he has issues with doing that with anyone.

I don't know....as in how much is it and when?? This would be ideal.....we need to do this.

Oh I won't ask then.

I doubt it as my pastor at the time really had a long vows thing going on! I don't have a good video of it that you can see or hear clearly....but our vows were much more than even the ones you are bringing up....we were to stand in the gap for one another thur hard times and bad...with prayer....that was another one and many more....I don't atten that church any longer but perhaps just bringing up some traditional vows for us to look at might be a good idea.

But I am sure me saying Forsaking all others is just gonna piss him off right now to be honest.

No doubt.