Well, actually you are willing to risk much, much more. You are willing to risk the end of your marriage and the collapse of your children's family by blackmailing your wife into doing something she doesn't want to do. So, you are not only jeopardizing your health, but your marriage and your childrens family with these tactics.


Blackmailing your wife is not enhancing your health in any way I can see. It is not working.

Why not try something that WORKS for you both instead of jeopardizing it ALL by using abusive tactics that will achieve nothing other than running your wife off?

You can see with your own eyes that holding a gun to your wife's head and bullying her has availed you exactly NOTHING. That strategy is not working. But if you want to continue beating your head up against that wall, then more power to you.

I think I addressed that, in my paragraph which begins "Of course, the poster might have an emotional need for financial support..."


That sounds like an excellent option!

How incredibly judgmental.


Must you shout?

Yes, Dr. Harley clearly defines selfish demands, disrespectful judgments, and angry outbursts as abuse:


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5067b_qa.html

Confused's selfish demand that his wife work is abuse, according to Marriage Builders. And you are encouraging him to continue to make the demand.

It's only not selfish if you view him as objectively right and her as objectively wrong.

But if you value both her feelings and his, and if he addresses the situation with care for her feelings and thoughtfulness for her perspective, then he cannot assume himself to be "right" in this case. He has to address it by beginning with the assumption that both sides have a valid viewpoint.

The things you are saying here are a complete invalidation of his wife's feelings and personhood, and if he takes it back home to his marriage, it is going to really hurt her.

confusedincali, I don't have the patience to shout over people like Bubbles who dont know a thing about Marriage Builders but if you want some suggestions on ways to resolve the problem in a manner that won't lead you right straight to divorce [WHERE YOU ARE HEADED NOW] then give me a shout.

If you are only interested in getting validation for bullying and blackmailing your wife, though, Bubbles is your gal. I get the sense that you are only looking for validation for a losing plan, though.

It is very selfish, indeed. He is attempting to gain at her expense. See Dr. Harley's article on Selfish Demands:

Confused, is this something that has really been knawing at you for a long time? Has this been a stressful and pressure-filled issue for you all through your problems with business failures, etc? I am asking because I can identify. For going on 8 years, my H has been in school and the lion's share of the FS has been on me. Then, in Feb. I was encouraged to resign (long story). But I have to be honest, I have been growing more frustrated for a long time. I actually said to H during one of our discussion, "It's actually good that I am losing my job because it is probably the only thing that would get you to go ahead and finish and find a real, grownup job." Not very MB, very disrespectful. You see, I had been "giving" myself to work full time for so long, that when I had had it, I had HAD it. No more wiggle room. I have done my part, it is time for him to do his OR ELSE. This is understandable. It's also counterproductive and destructive.

So, we are discussing options and looking into jobs. We will most likely move. I admit, I am scared...I like to know what is coming. But he won't make me take a job that I don't have that peace about, and I won't make him take one he doesn't have a peace about either. Because both of us have been there, and it isn't good for the marriage. There IS a solution, even if we can't see it right this minute.

Listen to Melody, Cali. She knows Marriage Builders better than a lot of us, and she can help you save your marriage.

Three years ago, it was myself to look for a job first, then she was to look for a part time job that was compatible with my primary job. We both did not plan on me working 45 miles away from the home, but it is a good well paying job and we both agreed that I should take it. It was not the most enjoyable nor full filling job, but it was paying the bills.
For a while she was doing the same job number three at home that I was doing. The difference was she was making zero money at job 3, sometimes operating it at a loss, while I could make an average of $22.00 an hour at it. Job 3 is 100% work at home, but extremely volatile and stressful. Very few people can make job number 3 profitable. The agreement three years ago was that if she could not make her "job 3" profitable, then she was to look for part time work while the kids were at school. That was when the kids were 14 and 11. Job 1 still pays very well for mysel. I would actually be more willing to move than she would FWIW and for my kids its one of their brutal options. Even Dr Laura advocates sahm to work when the kids are at school.

From this it is obvious that his wife wanted to stay at home and raise their children while he worked. Apparently she did a good job.

If we're so concerned about 'fair' it seems the agreement was he work and provide financially, she stay home and raise the kids. From the standpoint of 'fair' she held up her end of the bargain - the kids are great. He's not fulfilling his. That sounds 'fair' to me.

See the problem with being concerned with 'fair' in a marriage is that it is subjective. What is fair to one person is NOT fair to another. Harley's method completely disregards fair. It's irrelevant. What is relevant is: are your giver and taker equally satisfied? This is how POJA works - it requires enthusiasm.

'Fair' turns spouses into enemies - each like vultures guarding their achievements and contributions. By nature, as human beings, in an adversarial relationship we overestimate our own contributions and underestimate those of others. Everything becomes tit-for-tat. I'm sorry you cannot be in love with your enemy.

This is the situation Cali has made here. His wife has been painted the enemy of their marriage and - to hear him tell it- their whole family. I doubt she sees it so.

In the end, Bubbles, it doesn't matter if you, or I, think it's fair. What matters is that Cali and his wife are in love and enthusiastic about their lives. Demonizing his wife, while making Cali feel better about himself, WILL NOT provide any sort of solution that leads to romantic love or a happy family.

What we are trying to tell Cali is that the root of his problems aren't financial, they are that he and his wife are not in love. If she were in love with him she would do everything she could to alleviate their financial situation. She's not - she's looking out for what's good for her and Cali is looking out for what's good for him - both hiding behind the justification that they're doing what's best for the kids.

BS.

What they need is to be in love and that's what we're trying to achieve here. So that, as loving partners, they come to a mutually satisfying solution together. I'm sure Cali would agree the ideal scenario is for him and his wife to be madly in love and financially secure. That won't happen if his wife is the enemy.

Unfortunately, Cali has made it clear what his priorities are and they will surely spell doom for this family. HIS WIFE and marriage need to be priority number one (small caveat: not at the expense of his health, however). Happy wife & husband= Happy marriage= happy family and kids. His priorities right now spell divorce.

CALI - YOU CAN TURN THIS AROUND. You can do your part to create a marriage that is happy and love filled. If you do your absolute best and your wife still doesn't turn around - THEN you should walk away, but not before giving it your all � in fact that is what you vowed to do at the altar.

Yes, that was the agreement 14 years ago. Before I was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes, before I ruptured and herniated three lower discs in my back. Had I known this was going to happen I obviously would not of agreed to the above.

Wife also worked part time in the failed business, so she has not entirely been a sahm mom either. But she could work the hours that were convenient.

Even the original business that went under had its roots for my wife to make a bit of money at night when the kids went to sleep. It just grew too quickly and I went into it full time. It was successful inside our former home in Colorado for a few years. It tanked in the move to Cali when we opened up a retail location.



Yes it is safe to say I am not currently in love with her, she says she is in love with me, but her actions certainly do not say so.

I will admit to being about 70% at fault in the first fifteen years. Far too many OA, not enough kindness. Of course she OA's frequently also.


My priorities are 1. Health, 2 Reconnection with my kids, 3. Reconnection with my wife.

Working 3 jobs, and heavy into the businesses prior to my current situation has made it so I do not know my kids nearly as well as I should.

Have you tried sitting down with your wife and making a set of life/family/money goals that you both agree to?

For example:

Stay in CA to support your parents
Let OS finish HS in CA
Keep your H1Ac under 6.0
Get Health Insurance
Keep working hours under 60 hours/week for each person
Have wife gain Social Security credits for retirement
Save money for retirement
Teach kids about chores
Divide housework equitably based on hours worked outside the home

Are there goals she has that you don't know about?
Does she feel she needs to be home when DD gets home from school?



etc.

Then! brainstorm on how these things can be accomplished. For some of the things, bring the kids in (esp. about the chores)

Instead of her needing to work being an edict to you, maybe it could be something that she can see as a method to reach your mutual goals.

Also, talk about starting these goals from today. She can't keep talking about your failed business...as long as you are making a good faith effort to earn $$ it sounds like she is using that as an excuse not to work. Maybe gently find out if there is something she is scared of about working. Does she not know what she wants to do? Is she scared of being rejected? Does she not want to update her resume?

Cali - I've been hesitant to repost to you. I get the feeling that you're really not interested in creating a loving, romantic marriage with your wife (thats what we do... you know... Marriage BUILDERS). I can't tell if you just want to vent/ whine or get some outside validation that your wife is this horrible person destroying your family.

Now, I agree you shouldn't sacrifice your health. Quitting job #3 was necessary. But I will not help you come up with ways to coerce your wife into going along with your 'One true plan'

I do want to address this


and maybe try to explain why this order of priorities WILL NOT give you what you want.

I don't disagree that your health has to go first. Can't have relationships if you're not around. What I debate is the order of 2 and 3 and submit to you that you've got it backwards.

I see this so often in young couples who've just had a few kids. The wife's priority shifts to mother and hubby just has to suck it up and take a back seat to the kids. Then the mother wonders why her DH won't sleep with her, won't help with the kids, just comes home after work and sits on his duff. When the wife has relegated him to a pocketbook - why should he be any more? Why should he put effort into a relationship that has become secondary to the one of mother and child?

The foundation for a happy family is a strong, happy marriage. Kids need that more than they need their parents as friends. It gives them a healthy pattern for their future relationships. One day the kids will be gone and their relationship with their parents will be secondary to that with their future spouse and kids.

Lemme explain in pictures (early in my marriage someone explained it this way and it's always stuck with me):



Here we have a happy couple, very much in love.

Now with the priorities you've outlined: the kids come first.


So, what happens to the happy couple when the kids are gone?


They're miles apart - they don't even know each other anymore.

But what happens if their priorities are: marriage first, then kids?




Well, look at that, they're still holding hands - still in love. And when those kids leave?




...THIS is what we're trying to get you to see. To get what you want you need to fall back in love with your wife. Your relationship with your kids is important, but it has to take a back seat to rebuilding that with your wife.

The good news: if you follow the advice here you have a good chance of getting EXACTLY what you want. If you go it your way - well it's either an unhappy marriage or divorce. We're trying to give you the first, you interested? Or you wanna go beat up on your wife more?

V, I love that picture! Also, I think sometimes we think of priorities as a "to do" list. Let's say my list looked like this:

1. Health
2. Marriage
3. Kids
4. Job

In the to-do list mindset, I would get my health all squared away AND THEN get my marriage right AND THEN....well you get it. This won't work because all these things are interrelated. My marriage affects my health, my health affects my job, and so on. I don't get to put H on back burner until I find a new job.

I have been where you are, and I sense that what you really want is for your wife to work, and no other option will please you. Your mind is not open. Unfortunately, there is no way to build a marriage that way. It just won't happen. So in order to really apply MB, you have to lay down all the preconceived solutions that you think are the only ones that will work.

Vibrissa,
I like your pictures. But how do you decide which kids stand on which kids' head?

LOL!

I guess it will have to depend on which kid is cuter that day - though I'm just guessing, I only have one and right now she's above even us - she knows who the boss is in our house, and it isn't me of DH!

You don't do any good for your kids by making them a higher priority in your life than their mother.

If you love your kids, love them by practicing caring love toward their mother.