Its been 18 months since my H confessed 2 affairs. We've worked through a lot. But he just doesn't understand that his refusing to read the marriage builders links, and his inability to understand why even the 'smallest' lie (about smoking, or anything) is a complete blow to me - actually pushing me emotionally all the way from admiration one moment all the way to withdraw in a heartbeat.

Anyone please, advice on how to get him to read this stuff???
I know he's not reading it because a) he thinks 'we're fine' now, b) he thinks its going to be info just making him feel even more of the bad guy, c) he just wants us to move forward as sees this as pulling him back.
Mind you, he keeps promising to, but always finds and excuse.

If anyone needs to read this stuff its him.
Please, anyone else out there found any ideas? He can not begin to grasp how much he's pushing me away.

Physically I'm here - but emotionally...
Help?

He won't... I tried and if he is pushing back please don't continue to think that 'IF ONLY HE WOULD...' will make it all better. I would recommend reading Marks post here

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2353839&page=49

I only say this... because I have lived in your shoes for the last year... and beat my head against a wall, just as you are. Your frustration comes through loud and clear. I feel the anger and resentment at your spouse ignoring your obvious pain and appearing to ignore your 'need' for him to take you seriously.

But... for YOURSELF... please step back from your self-righteousness (I don't mean to be blunt, but I felt the same way.) and look at what you need in yourself to be better. Thinking that he needs to live up to your expectation simply won't work. I know where you are coming from, because I just left there... after spending entirely too much time and energy TRYING to get my wife to join in, read, etc.

Just trying to help you avoid wasting so much time and energy.

I am thinking that Schoolbus is gonna show up. She is really good with this area of conflict from watching her posts. There are things you can do to gain control, both of yourself and the message you are sending to your husband. But I am not nearly as good at conveying to a woman how it works as Schoolbus has proven to be.

If she misses this one, I will try to look up some of her other posts that have the clues and copy them here. And she isn't the only one who can help either. Be patient.

Larry

Thank you both. Blunt honesty is always best a appreciated! Will look for the posts.
Can't - after your year, where are you now? did you just give up on her reading, etc - or give up on her entirely?

The Love Bank


Inside all of us is a Love Bank with accounts in the names of everyone we know. When these people are associated with our good feelings, "love units" are deposited into their accounts, and when they are associated with our bad feelings, love units are withdrawn. We are emotionally attracted to people with positive balances and repulsed by those with negative balances. This is the way our emotions encourage us to be with people who seem to treat us well, and avoid those who seem to hurt us.

The emotional reactions we have toward people, whether attraction or repulsion, is not a matter of choice. Love Bank balances cause them. Try "choosing" to be attracted to those you associate with some of your worst experiences -- it's almost impossible. Or try to feel repulsed by those associated with your best feelings. You do not decide whom you will like or dislike -- it's their association with your feelings, whether they have made Love Bank deposits or withdrawals, that determines your emotional reactions to them.

We like those with positive Love Bank balances and dislike those with negative balances. But if an account reaches a certain threshold, a very special emotional reaction is triggered -- romantic love. We no longer simply like the person -- we are in love. It's a feeling of incredible attraction to someone of the opposite sex.

The feeling of love is the way our emotions encourage us to spend more time with someone who takes especially good care of us -- someone who is effective at making us very happy and knows how to avoid making us unhappy. We would certainly want to spend time with someone we simply liked, but by giving us the feeling we call love, our emotions give us added motivation. We find ourselves not only wanting to be with the person, but also craving that person. When we are together we feel fulfilled, and when apart we feel lonely and incomplete. So the feeling of love is usually effective not only in drawing people together for significant amounts of time, but also in encouraging them to spend their entire lives together in marriage.

But our emotions give us more than the feeling of love. When they identify someone who makes us happy, they also motivate us to reciprocate by encouraging us to make that person happy. They do this by making it seem almost effortless to do what makes most of us the happiest. Have you ever noticed that when you are in love, you seem instinctively affectionate, conversant, admiring and willing to make love? That's because your emotions want to keep that person around, so it gives you instincts to help you make that person happy which, if effective, triggers his or her feeling of love for you. The "look of love" not only communicates our feeling of love for someone, but also reflects our instinct to do whatever it takes to make that person happy.

When a man and woman are both in love, their emotions encourage them to make each other happy for life. In fact, the thought of spending life apart is usually frightening. It seems to them that they were made to be together for eternity. In almost every case, a man and woman marry because they are in love, and they are in love because their love bank balances are above the romantic love threshold.

But what goes up can usually come down, and love bank balances are no exception. As most married couples have discovered, the feeling of romantic love is much more fragile than originally thought. And if Love Bank balances drop below the romantic love threshold, a couple not only lose their feeling of passion for each other, but they lose their instinct to make each other happy. What was once effortless now becomes awkward, and even repulsive. Instead of the look of love, couples have the look of apathy. And without love, a husband and wife no longer want to spend their lives together. Instead, they start thinking of divorce, or at least living their lives apart from one another.

It should be obvious to you by now that the Love Bank is an extremely important concept in marriage. If you want your instincts and emotions to support your marriage you must keep your Love Bank accounts over the romantic love threshold. But how can you keep your balances that high? And what can you do if they have already fallen below that threshold?

I've worked long and hard to find answers to those questions, because they hold the key to saving marriages. Without love, spouses are poorly motivated to remain married for life, but with the restoration of love and its accompanying instinct to spend life together, the threat of divorce is overcome. Marriages are saved when love is restored.

All of my remaining basic concepts will help me explain the answer to those questions, but the general principle is simple: If a couple wants to have a happy and fulfilling marriage, they must make as many Love Bank deposits as possible and avoid making withdrawals. To achieve this, behavior must change. A husband and wife must learn how to make each other happy, and how to stop making each other unhappy.

The next concept will help you understand why you behave the way you do, and what you can do to change your behavior.

Next Concept:
Instincts and Habits

i SIS2008

The other thing here is radical honesty. Have you told him exactly how you feel about the little lies?

You can't make him read the books if he doesn't want to. But if you can get across to him that you feel sad because he doesn't want to or that it makes you feel uncared for, that the way you feel about it still doesn't matter. Then he may decide to.

"Although you feel that you need to move forward from this, there are still some things I need before I am able to"

If he thinks "we're fine" then maybe you do need to be more honest. If he realises how sad and close to withdrawl you are, he would know that "we're not fine"

He may decide that he wants to read the books to help you out.

Sis, you answered your own question here.

Believe me - he's not acting this way because the poor little guy "just doesn't understand".

He understands perfectly well what he did. He just doesn't want to experience any consequences for his actions and he's happy to throw YOU under the bus and let YOU suffer if it means he doesn't have to.

This utter indifference to the suffering he has caused is 100% evidence of a wayward mindset. A *Former* Wayward Spouse will care about your feelings and Will Do Whatever It Takes to repair the damage and protect you from any further suffering.

There is really no way you can "make" somebody care about you, when they just don't.

Are you sure his affair is over? He sure is behaving like a wayward.

I pushed and I MB'd. I tried to explain and I finally got her to 'read' HNHN. Nothing happened. She didn't WANT to read it, so when she did, it had no effect on her. She wanted to AVOID ANYTHING which caused her pain, especially the thought of what she had done and also the pain of 'giving it up' as well. A book about 'what you did' pushed upon her by the person she 'did it to' was not welcome. And that is the crux of the situation.

I agree with Pep that if you can help him to learn the concepts that a 'happy wife = happy husband', however, expecting that he will read HNHN and all of the sudden 'get it' is just going to frustrate you.

I disagree with Pep about what I termed as 'self righteousness' though. Only because I hear you echo what I have felt for so long, and looking back, it was me looking 'down' on her and her obviously bad thoughts and behaviors which allowed me to feel correct in almost 'demanding' that she read the book for her (sic MY) own good. I felt that she had screwed up, and she should read it to understand the concepts... but almost also as penance for her choices and the pain she caused. I wanted her to get it... I really did... but I also wanted her to FEEL it, something which I don't think she is capable. Your post sounded like an echo of my thoughts for so long.

Unfortunately... those thoughts are self defeating. I continued to bang my head against the thought of 'IF ONLY SHE WOULD...' everything would be fine. I placed so much of OUR/MY happiness in the hands of the person who had chosen to act out in this way... it makes no sense now that I think about it. I would never trust a co-worker who had acted or betrayed me the way she did, however, for some reason, I put everything on her shoulders and expected her to 'cry, gnash her teeth, tear her clothes, and come away asking to make things right'. At least that was how I envisioned it. I expected her to read HNHN and see how GREAT it was and how it would be as simple as filling out a couple of questionaires and then implementing them.

The thing I learned through all of this is that if she WAS that type of person... we wouldn't have been in the place we were in the first place. If she WAS the type of person who would 'read' and 'understand' she would have been READING AND UNDERSTANDING long before we got to the place we ended up. She would have been in the bookstore looking for books on relationships and marriage enhancement. She would have found this site HERSELF. Instead of reading books on psychics to figure out what spook she could ask to find out why she was unhappy. (True story)

My point... and my ONLY POINT... is that I believe you are looking at the situation all wrong. Yes, he cheated. yes he should be remorseful. YES he should want to work with you. YES he should be willing to do EVERYTHING in order to succeed. HOWEVER... he won't. And the way you LOOK at it will only hamper both him and you. You might not ever get through to him, however, I can tell you from experience, that if you continue to believe the 'IF ONLY HE WOULDs...' you will remain stuck.

Do the MB plan yourself. Try to help him to understand, but don't wait until he 'DOES HIS PART' because he won't... certainly not early, but perhaps later on. THAT IMO is your only shot. And certainly IMO will be better for YOU, no matter WHAT should happen long term.

And concerning 'what happened'... We went no where... She posted some things on a website looking for 'something on the side to make her feel alive'. I asked her to move out. We worked for a while, finally getting to the point of talking a bit. She lied to me, I told her I couldn't trust her then in counseling I confronted the fact that she is often untruthful and lies KNOWINGLY to my face even while she knows I KNOW it is not true. She blew up that session... and it was the last time I have spoken to her.

She took a bunch of money and filed for divorce. I found out through my bank.

So... I would have done alot differently. But looking back, I would have done it for myself better as well.

gemstone - I just don't want to see you blaming yourself for this.

Your husband does know what you want. He just isn't willing to give it to you, because that would mean going through the discomfort of cleaning up his own mess.

That's why he would rather let you suffer and let you take the hit instead of being uncomfortable himself.

THAT is a wayward mindset.

I also went through *years* of trying to "explain MB concepts" to a selfish, narcissistic man who was so addicted to Female Attention that he cared about nothing else.

He would seem to buy into the concept of happy wife/happy life/stay emotionally connected. Things would seem to get better.

And then that would interfere with getting his lots of Female Attention from somewhere - you know, from co-workers, from waitresses, from strippers, from on-line gamer women - and he would throw me under the bus again.

Please do not think for one second that he doesn't understand because you just didn't explain it correctly. That is NOT true.

He is stonewalling you because he hopes that if he does it long enough, you'll give up and go away and stop trying to have a real, honest marriage with him.

Having a real, honest marriage would mean cleaning up his own mess. Unless and until he is willing to do that, there is nothing you can do. He has to want it for himself and he is the only one who can make that happen.

Good luck. I've lived through this. Please don't think he just isn't capable of grasping the concepts and that that is somehow your fault for not explaining correctly. He knows perfectly well what you want. He just remains more invested in protecting himself instead of protecting your marriage. And until HE changes that, there is nothing you can do and it is not your fault.

FWIW, I do agree with Cantfigureitout's posts above. I'm pretty much saying the same thing - that you can't save a marriage by yourself and you can't "make" somebody else care.

You must let him figure this out for himself, gemstone. You can help if he seems receptive, as Pepperband is saying above, but you cannot do it for him. There's a big difference.

Sis2008, I can attest to the earlier responses. I too am SAA with 2 oc. I have tried to get my h to read MB, but he hasn't yet. But sometimes I get him to have UA time and I pull out some of the print outs. He will read them then, because we read them together and then discuss them. After I get my emotional need met of conversation, we always have good sex later, which is definetly top of his list.

He told me that he thought that all this MB stuff is too rehearsed and regimented. Of course I totally disagree with that, but he is entitled to his opinion. But he is taking note that I am much more willing to engage in his recreational enjoyment(sex) after we have spent some time on converstaion or other things that are important to me.

Have you asked him to fill out the emotional needs questionaire? I got my h to do it by telling him that this would help me to know how to satisfy his needs as well as him satisfing mine. He was on board then.

You would think they would be more then willing since they were the w.

Thanks all.
Pepper - so funny. "= fun & sex" is about the only way to get him to listen!
Oh, and love bank is the ONLY part he's read. At least there's that. We have also read His Needs/Her Needs - again, that the first chapter was about sex certainly got his early agreement. Maybe I just have to sprinkle the word "sex" a few times INTO to the POJA and the Honesty section a few times, and THEN he'll listen.
Maybe they're working on the "sexy" version of those links?