WH had an affair from 5/09-11/09. I discovered the A on 9/17/09 and made my WH call the OW and end it. I should have known better by the tone of his voice. We began marriage counseling until mid-November. I discovered on 11/25/09 that communication between the two was still taking place. WH moved out, came back home 12/7/09, but then asked for D on 12/9/09. He had called OW on 11/25 to stop communication, but somewhere along the way, it resumed itself again (I find this out with a discovery in Feb 2010).

On 12/26/09, WH calls to say he does not want a D. Says that he could "See himself living with and loving the OW, but that he could not love himself - that there is something inherently wrong with him not loving me". WH moves back in a few days later but that barely lasts two weeks. He finds himself resenting being with me when he knows there is someone else out there - he claims he stopped communication with OW prior to coming home. He leaves AGAIN 1/11/10 amidst tears that he loves me, but that he doesn't know if he could get over what he had with someone else, and is terrified of hurting me again. WH begins therapy for himself.

On 2/11/10, I guess the password to his email and discover the ugly truth about the affair. WH had always claimed it was emotional, but I discovered it was definitely physical too. The OW's own mother was involved in the affair! Up to the point where she books a hotel room for them one weekend. (last November) Its disgusting. I move out. WH (who now lives in our house) does not want a divorce, wants to be happy with me again, says he has stopped communication (I never did see a NC letter or email), etc. He is intense about everything for about two weeks and then really cools off. I begin to hear things from him like, "I'm finding it hard to be in a relationship with you again; I don't feel any passion - do you? (of course I do!); things are not natural between us anymore..." We get along great as "friends", not really anything more than that but by this time it had been 5-6 months since my initial discovery of the A and I'm looking for our marriage to rebuild itself! I'm putting forth so much energy, reading so many books, seeing my therapist as well, and I get very little in return from WH. I also confront him and its revealed that WH was still holding on to OW's old emails. I made him delete them - he did, but not without some attitude.

On 4/7/10 I follow up on the emails to make sure they were indeed deeted. They were, but I was getting more attitude from the WH. Then I told him that this was not working. WE, are not working. Told him that I could not go on like this. He begins to cry. I am essentially going forward with divorce proceedings (working on property settlement right now). Do I want a divorce? No! However, I can't ride this roller coaster anymore. WH is so hot and cold I can't take it anymore. I have nearly destroyed myself during these past 7 months trying to make it work while he does practically nothing. I suppose you could say we are in Plan B, but then there is the option of D looming over my head. I have read a lot of items on the MB website and even passed them along to my husband but who knows if he's reading them or not. Now that I've really "left", he has been more attentive and affectionate to my needs than he did when he had me! I just want to let go and move on because I do not think he's going to come around. I think he got married too young and is just too immature to deal with this, especially since he found it so easy to make emotional attachments with other people. I have been learning from my faults in all of this and WH has repeatedly commented on how I've blossomed.

After 7 months, I guess WH is STILL in withdrawal of some sort? He claims this is the longest he's gone without talking to her but what does it matter now anyways? I'm moving towards D right? Why does he NOW want to talk to me all the time, tell me he loves me (and he's so much more sincere!), that he's sorry he was so careless with our M, and want to show affection? (wanting to hug me, brush a stray hair away from my face, bring me gatorade when I'm thirsty, etc.).

Somebody please tell me this is just a sham and that he's just behaving this way out of guilt (even though he say's he's not) or something because its making it that much more difficult for me to move on! I've been through about 5 falso recoveries so far and I can't take it anymore. I'm so confused...

val

This is your third attempt at posting your story and possibly finding a response you like. For what it is worth, there is no reset button. And no magic wand.

In your last thread, you received excellent advice. Part of the advice was to read the information on this site.

What did you read? What did what you read mean to you?


No clue. I cannot read your husband's mind through the lens of your observations. I won't tell you what I don't know.

1. You vent and ask for help. The help is here, but you have to earn the help by reading the help. The help is more than just reading responses to your plea for help, the help is the acquisition of knowledge, emotional tools you can then use to solve your problems.

Start by reading the link to "How to Survive Infidelity." The link will be to stories and answers that will not exactly match yours. That said the tools Dr. Harley teaches with his answers WILL apply to you as you read and understand.

2. Your husband has been going to therapy. Has he shared with you what he learned in therapy? Does what he learned match the concepts you can find here? Many marriage counselors are just divorce counselors. Time and again, we see people on here who have been ruined by bad counseling. If you do not have an answer to the question I asked, why don't you?

If you cannot answer the question, then send your husband here to read the concepts and let him answer the question.

One of you has to work up the energy to learn what needs to be learned if you are to save your marriage. No free lunch.

3. Stop the complaining that your situation is awful and you are so confused. Once is enough. We know your situation is awful and that you need help. Simply put, your only problem is that you do not have the emotional tools to deal with your situation, in my opinion.

So get the tools you need. Dr. Harley gives them away for free on this site. The only price you pay to get the tools is that you have to earn them by reading. Next up, you can buy books that expand and more completely explain the concepts and tools, I suggest you start with Surviving an Affair and Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders.

Don't know what is meant by "Tools?" Ask, it will be defined.

Next up the ladder is professional counseling with Dr. Harley's coaching center. Either Steve or Jennifer can sort out the blocks and get you started down the path and help you with individual, customized planning. They stay real busy at the center helping folks just like you. Then there is the home study course, followed by an MB weekend seminar. There is help for every budget and every need.

Please read my signature. Venting gives you temporary relief, sometimes, but planning gets the job done. You cannot have a plan until you have the knowledge to formulate that plan.

Please note that I have written this based on what you said, not what I really know. You may in fact have read every article, concept and directive from Dr. Harley but have a block that needs Steve or Jennifer at the coaching center. And somehow I doubt that you have read all that much.

By all means ask questions here. Stick to ONE thread so those who would answer don't have to go chasing all over the place to read your story. POST what you have read and what it means to you in terms of your situation. POST questions where you don't understand what it means. POST what you are doing and sure, you can POST your complaints as well. Minimize the latter.

"Give up" never got the job done. Your husband is a prime candidate, in my opinion, to be turned around and made into a decent husband, maybe. At least he is going to therapy, good or bad as the case may be. Both your basic problem and his are pretty obvious, which is that each of you are following your emotions around like puppy dogs after their lunch. Once again, you stop that by acquiring the tools that are here just waiting for folks just like you.

Now, what did I say here? Find a magic wand? There is one, carefully hidden.

I wish you well.

Larry

Of course you wish you could just let go, BUT, you are still in love with your H and so that is not an easy task.

Larry is so right that you have had great advice but your emotions are getting in the way of getting down to work on a plan.

A Marriage Builder plan allows for you to
possibly save your marriage and make it good
to build your own sense of self and strength
to be okay no matter the end result

You can not 'make' a spouse stop seeing someone. You can not 'make' them delete emails and behave from then on. 'Making' someone do stuff just backfires in the end.

You can learn to not make demands but state your boundaries and you can give your H a chance to work through his affair issues and come back once and for all OR you can say 'I don't have it in me to go through this journey of self building. It is too much for me. To heck with it'

There ARE pros and cons to each way of dealing with it.

Reading is so right. The only person you can "Make" do something is yourself. How is that working for you?

Larry

Larry, your response has hit me right between the eyes � I know you are right! I also thought there were so many people on the forum that multiple postings would go relatively unnoticed. My mistake I have received excellent advice from those here on the forum and enjoy reading up on their suggestions because I know that put to use, they will help me as a person � especially a person who wants to share their life with someone.

1. I have read the links for �How to Survive Infidelity�. I even handed them off to my husband � I told him he didn�t have to read them, but just thought maybe as a suggestion. I don�t know if he�s reading them or not because I don�t want to seem to be pestering him. I have read a lot of the information on the MB site (though not all of it) and will likely have to re-read a lot of it to help ideas and concepts sink in!

2. To answer your question about therapy, my husband does occasionally share with me what they discuss though not in great detail (I don�t ask for details either). He has shared with me that he understands why he cheated, and how areas of his personality made him more prone to the affair. He is learning a lot about himself which is great for him, but I do not necessarily think it is benefiting our marriage, because my husband continues to vacillate. From what I�ve heard my husband tell me, his counselor has been working to get him to see that the answer does not lie with me, nor does it lie with the other woman. The answer lies within HIM.

3. I mostly agree with you when you say I don�t have the emotional tools. I have been seeing a therapist myself since October and my greatest challenge seems to be finding the balance between making sure that I�m alright, but also doing what needs to be done for the marriage to survive. I know I am guilty of several if not all of the Love Busters, and I have really had to stifle a lot of emotion or at least re-channel it into something constructive. I know my husband cares about our relationship, but I feel like I am the only one who cares enough to actually DO something about it. I have voiced this concern to my husband on a couple of occasions.

I don�t want to give up, but I feel I�m doing the best I can. Its not always the correct thing to do, but that is because I�m learning. If something does not work, I try another tactic. I have been devouring books since September and I feel as though I�m swimming against the rip tide.


Thanks,

Valerie

What I see as my "Job" around here is to be a can opener. I try to get people to open up so either me, sometimes, or more often, others can jump in and help. You have opened up, so I guess I did my job for once. I am not always successful, but I try. Thank you for your kind words in my direction.

So you have been learning. That is totally great. So you have been trying to apply yourself to using the tools you have been learning.

Again, totally great.

And you seem to imply that you have not been as successful as you would like. Awwwww. That is very all right. It takes time and it takes time and it takes reading again to "Get it."

Sounds to me like you are doing better than you think.

Here is an idea. It will cost you $195. Make an appointment with the coaching center and ask for an audit session. They may decide to do it with you. You might also consider the home study course. I dunno what it costs, but what price Marriage?

The home study course is something that both you and your husband can do, which also complies with the 20 hours of focus on each other Dr. Harley recommends.

Do you have kids together or in a blended family?

Larry

Hi Larry -

No kids. This is the first marriage for both of us. He is nearly three years younger than I (I am 31, he will be 29 in a few weeks). I believe that with my husband and I, maturity has always been an issue. I know the age gap seems to count for less and less as we get older (so you can imaging that it was really a GAP there for awhile when we were in our 20's). The gap seems to have closed up a bit for a while there around the time we were married (2 years ago) but with the events of the past year, it seems to have been blown wide open again. Family members and friends of mine have always said the same thing..."He's a great guy, but he's immature". I often wonder if even now, if he just got married too young and was not ready for the the work it takes to maintain a relationship?

Looking back, I realize there are things that I have done (or not done) in our marriage that I am learning from so in no way was I perfect either! I'm also not afraid of a little hard work

Husband is gonna be a bit longer in recovery from affair, imho.

Time line is usually the length of the affair, which is from first contact to last.

How are you doing?

Maturity is somewhat conditional on what kind of job he has and how much he is willing to learn from life's, uh, little, adventures.

Larry

Hi Larry - what is meant by "imho"? I'm afraid I'm still getting used to the lingo here on MB I am doing well - working hard to stay busy. As for the recovery taking about as long as the affair lasted - oh boy. I'm probably in for a long "wait"...

With that said, I moved out of our home 6 weeks ago and 2 weeks ago told WH I could not do this anymore - I could not go on in this relationship giving and giving and getting very little in return. I suppose one could say we are in a sort of hybrid Plan B. There is still some communication - mostly over bills, etc. but we do talk about other things, and I have seen him a few times (doing taxes, sorting out bills, and so forth - so far, he seems to always get a little sad whan I leave). It is my understanding that Plan B stresses no contact with the WS until the A is over. The A is over as far as I know (but I've been fooled before!) I am seriously considering cutting off ALL contact with my WH aside from the absolute necessary. Thoughts? Ideas anyone?

My husband in the meantime continues therapy, and keeps busy by doing projects around the house. His dad is a contractor and has been putting him to work in his spare time which is good. I believe he is also going to be attending a small group at church. I (mostly) think my WH has what it takes to turn around, but I'm feeling a lot of pressure from all around (I'll explain that in a later post!)

Also, I am seriously considering contacting the counseling center as a previous posting advised. Money is a little tight right now (even though its not that expensive!) and so I'll see what's going on when I get my budget in order

Valerie

Hi Valerie:

IMHO = In my humble opinion. IMO = not so humble

Putting pressure on WH is not a bad idea and that is essentially what you are doing. I assume you have read everything on this site and if you haven't, imo you are short changing yourself.

The more you know, the more emotional tools you have to work with.

By all means, contact the coaching center (they coach). Best money you could invest. They can help you with a plan and to work the plan.

What kind of pressure are you getting and from whom?

Larry

I feel pressure from myself to DO something - make something happen and usually that self-pressure is the side that's leaning towards divorce. You know how when you're stuck in a situation there's always that sort of irrational part of yourself that just wants to get out and be comfortable again even if it means chewing your own arm off? So, I think the self-pressure is pretty much a given - we're all our own worst critics right?

The other set of pressure is from my family. They feel divorce is the only option and ask me, "Are you still on course for the divorce?...Don't take so long...You're just letting your life pass you by sitting around in limbo...The kind of recovery he's going through can take YEARS and he still might not grow up". I'm living in a condo rent-free (but still paying bills towards the home WH and I own) by the good graces of my aunt and uncle. I've been there nearly two months and I just have 4 months left before our "agreement" is up and I have to sink or swim. I suppose their response (my family) is understandable considering I've leaned heavily on them during this tough time and they've seen the Valerie they used to know waste away. I've waffled back and forth a lot and they just want me to make a decision and stick with it. One minute I want to shove divorce papers down WH's throat, and the next I want to try to make it work.

Part of me keeps trying to tell me to be patient with things. Take some time to formulate a plan (counseling center), implement said plan, take care of myself, live my life, and see what happens from there. Another part of me keeps saying, "Why should I have to sit here and wait around for him to 'find himself'? There are no guarantees so get out while you can!". Very impatient and I sort of end up making myself crazy over it.

Valerie

i know how you feel. i think my parents and family are afraid to give me any opinion on recovering my relationship because they don't know what i want anymore. it so often seems that i don't know what i want.

i have gone from a strong sure woman to anervous wreck pandering to her husbands emotional needs. sometimes i feel like i don't even know who i am anymore. i look different, dress different, feel differently about people and situations that used to not bother me.

i understand what you mean when you say sometimes you just want to gnaw off your own leg. this is exactly how it is for me sometimes.
good luck to you. your husband seems to have a glimmer and you being gone is excellent motivation for him to finally change. work on your lovebusters in the meantime. they make you unhappy too and don;t really help you get what you want- at least not in the way you want it. keep giving him inforamtion though- by all means. you have to let him know how to make you happy. then, whether he lives up to it or not shows how much he cares. set the bar high! you deserve a great love!

also, we have the same d-day- february 11- the day my life turned upside-down. not as good as a b-day. but aren't you glad there are people here who care.

i think it is useful to have people to tell our story to in full. i don't want to go thru it with my family anymore. the details are too much.

we are like trauma victims here, and we need to have the experience of working out the details of the trauma with safe supportive people. just being able to tell someone my story and tell me i'm alright makes a world of difference. holding it in makes me want to choke. i need someone to listen and talk it over with me. do you want this too?

i know we need to have a positive plan for our relationships future. that is very true. things were wrong before somehow and we need to find out how to make them right. but i think dealing with the memories is a useful endeavor and should not be just written off as venting or complaining. i prefer to think of it as reflecting and learning. those who do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them, they say.

Hi Mamasita!

You hit it right on the mark when you described how you�ve gone from a �strong sure woman to a nervous wreck pandering to her husbands emotional needs��I feel much the same way! Meanwhile, my needs for love and safety are not returned. I also feel differently to people and situations that used to not bother me so much or not at all. Yesterday, I finally sent him the link to the MB website so we�ll see what he gets from it. Part of me hopes that it may prompt him to take more of an active role, but I seriously have my doubts. My husband is mostly the type to not stick his neck out and take risks where he might end up hurt. Like he�s just been waffling back and forth between me and this other woman to figure out which is more convenient and then go for that one, which drags me through hell in the meantime. Please excuse my rant. I�ve been feeling very frustrated these past few days about what I�m doing here (still in the marriage). I can read all I want, send tidbits his way, work on my lovebusters and at the very least they will give me emotional tools for the future but in terms of him and my marriage, it�s like we�re at a stalemate. I do find myself closing up to him because I�ve thrown myself heart and soul into this repeatedly and I have repeatedly been hurt and disappointed. As recently as 6 weeks ago, I was damn-near suicidal (I have since gone on anti-depressants which have been helping) so what next? Here you have a husband who won�t venture beyond his comfort zone, and a wife who may or may not be willing to take any more risks on this man. Where to draw the line?

Again, I apologize for the rant. Mamasita, if you want someone to listen to your story and talk things over with you, I�m here! I wish you best of luck too

Valerie

Incredibly frustrated here! Two weeks ago, I tell my husband that I just can't live like this anymore- me putting for all my energy into the marriage while WH does little to nothing. I know he loves me YET I do not feel loved, yadda yadda. So today, I call WH to inquire about status of property settlement and comes out that he does not want divorce, etc. How many times have I heard this story from him now before he goes cold on me and backs out of his word? I've lost count now. I ask him before we tried to reconcile in February when was last time he talked to her? He tells me feb -he called her to tell her that he really does have feelings for me and wants to try to work it out with me and so he cannot talk to her anymore. Then he proceeds to tell me that after I "left" two weeks ago (and he's been so much nicer to me since), he called her again to tell her that he couldn't talk to her. If he had already broken it off in February and he claims that he's no longer going through withdrawal, WHY would he feel the need to call her up and really sever all ties? I think it's because he left off in feb with her with an attitude of "we'll see how things go with my wife...". He denies feeling like this but I disagree.

OPINIONS ANYONE????

Sorry for the rant but this has just frustrated the hell outta me!!!

I'm wondering why you are not following Plan A and Plan B?

Is the other woman married?

Scotland, thanks for the link. I had read that awhile ago but will likely re-read for clarification.

The OW is divorced (newly) because her husband cheated on her. Her family knows of her affair with WH because they were in favor of it. I guess they felt after what she went thru with her WH that she deserved to get some.

Went through plan A last fall and A did not stop. Took awhile for me to move into plan B but just found out today that he talked to her as recently as two weeks ago. I sort of get the feeling that he's just always going to "run" to her (she lives about 800 miles away so call her I guess) whenever he's not getting what he wants out of me.

Okay - so just prior to my rant here on Saturday night, WH had suggested "sleeping on it" before we came to any major decisions. I think he wanted more time for me to make a decision because I was pressing towards divorce and he was vocalizing in his own way (though he puts up a front) that he did not want this to happen. So, yesterday, we were able to come together and talk calmly and rationally about things.

My point here is that I am trying to avoid another False Recovery. I asked WH how many more times is he supposed to go running to OW every time something wrong goes on between us? (e.g. I "left" almost 3 weeks ago and WH called OW again this time to tell her that he really couldn't talk to her anymore - he'd called her right before reconciling with me in Feb that he was going to try to work things out with me) I again stated that when he tried to reconcile with me in February then went cold on me after a week, I believe he was still going through withdrawal. He had previously denied going through withdrawal but then agreed with me yesterday that that likely was the case. So what WH's attempt this time any different from the rest? In response to my question to WH at the beginning of this paragraph, WH stated something along the lines of him running to me now (I can't remember ver batim what he said). That a few days before I called things off with him, he was realizing his true feelings for me and was beginning to feel things again (but for me I was sort of already "on my way out").

During the last 2 1/2 weeks, WH was always telling me what he was up to, work he's doing for his dad, sort of keeping me updated as to his whereabouts, calling me over little things to talk, etc. - all without any prompts from me. I told him that it was great that he's doing all these things for himself, but what is he doing for the marriage? During our brief recent reconciliation, he had mentioned taking a trip or two this summer. He reminded me of this and said that he had wanted to go camping with me this weekend because he knows its what I enjoy. I think we both agree that our communication skills are not very good and I think that's a gap right there. My ideas for helping the marriage involve talking about things and his ideas involve doing things together; creating bonding experiences. I feel that our reconciliation should involve a combination of the two?

I've just read up on the Guide to recovering after an affair and hopefully we can begin working on our lovebusters. I suppose after 5 False Recoveries, I'm sort of looking at him with one eye...

After 5 FRs and him waffling back and forth it's pretty obvious you cannot do this on your own..."hope" is not a plan.

My opinion is that you desperately need to counsel with the Harley's: Coaching Center

If he is serious about wanting to recover, he will do this with you. This is really your only hope, IMHO.