You're right, contact between WH and OW is haphazard and they go months without seeing one another. Weeks at a time without contact at all. I did respond to that email but I'm afraid I may never hear back. I have a feeling they were just trying to cause trouble for my WH and had no intention of ever sending me the pictures. If they did, why not just send them in the first place? This is driving me crazy but I have to find a way to cope. Nothing good will come if I confront too early and without sufficent evidence. I've caught him in several lies over the last few weeks but none of them pertain to OW. It really doesn't do me much good to catch him in lies about his Dirtbag Friends. If I confront him about that, he will just get better at covering up situation with OW.

The part that bothers me the most is that I think he has justified this in his mind as not being an affair and therefore, it's okay. Has anyone else ever been in a situation like this?

It's more common than you can imagine. It's one of the main ways adulterers are able to conduct their affairs. (As in "We're Just Friends")

Your H is displaying IB with his white lies about where he is and what he's doing. He also may be compartmentalizing the A - keeping it 'at the office'.

The emailer was testing the waters. This tells me it's someone you know well.

What is IB? I can't find it anywhere. I'm 100% certain he's compartmentalizing the A. And I'm also certain he doesn't think it even counts as an A since it's so sporadic seems to be just about sex. I think at some point, he decided his friends were having so much fun and not getting caught that he decided to join their games. Or maybe he's been doing this all these years. I don't even know what to think anymore.

The worst part is that I'm almost hoping he has a meeting with OW soon so I can get some proof. That makes me feel sick.

I found out today that my mother has breast cancer. When it rains, it pours.

Independent Behavior.

If you DO get a response back from the emailer, make sure you are in a safe place before you open it and read it. Have a friend come over, or something.

I finally got something from the VAR but I don't know if it's enough so I thought I would run it past you guys. WH sent an email inviting OW to golf with him and Dirtbag Friend. Dirtbag called WH last night and it was brought up on the phone. WH did say about OW that "I could never date her because she talks to much." A bit later in the conversation they were talking about how she's not married (something was said on Facebook) and doesn't want to get married. They they started talking about her meeting them for golf and this is what followed (the ... represent times when WH is not talking but listening - keep in mind, it seems like he's talking to OW but this is really a conversation between him and Dirtbag Friend):

"Tell her to bring her little toys, Man...Everyone gets friends with benefits on her, take turns on her. Make her happy. Listen, Honey, you make me happy, I'll make you happy, that's all we need. What more do you want? Isn't that what life's all about? Come on, I'll make you happy, give you a little tickle-tickle. That's all...Exactly. I won't embarass you. You take me back, you give me a little hand job under the table, that's all I ask for. In return, I'll go down on you. You know, you seem like a clean lady. What the heck, you know? Throw me a little bone every once in awhile and that's all. I'll take you for dinner, you don't tell my wife, that's all. See, that's how things work. You don't really want to get married." And then laughter following by a little chat about how she lives in a townhome and then they change the subject.

So, what do you all think? I think the pro of confronting now is that I get it over with. The con is that I'm not sure this is enough to go forward with. I'm inclined to wait since I'm certain there will be more conversations because they plan to golf with her in the next few weeks.

Ugh. You poor woman. The above would be plenty for me to know your WH is not a man I want to be married to...but I guess that is not very marriage builderish.

I do have a question though....It sounds like your WH is telling DB how to handle a woman....?? Are they sharing her? Are they talking about your WHs OW or DB's OW.

I guess you never heard anything else back from that anonymous email?

What are your intentions with this marriage? Do you think it is salvagable?

Edit: Upon further reading....are you thinking your WH hasn't actually been WITH her? I think that is how he would spin it....that it is DB friend's OW---not your WHs....

If you can stand it, I probably would not reveal your source yet or even confront at all. I kept my kelogger in place for approximately 9 weeks...it paid off. I got more and more info. So much that I know he is bad enough that I will NEVER take him back. I had to have that for ME.

So when you say you want to 'move forward'....does that mean divorce? Is that what you want?

Sigh. Oh, Anne. It's something, but it's not enough, IMO. I re-read it and can see where your H can spin it to be all about the POS friend's exploits.

Can you hang on a while longer?

I would sit tight.

Your H is clearly having a "pretend" conversation.
It's not anything he's said or plans to say to any OW **that we know of**.

Right now it's nothing more than a big laugh about OW and her lack of morals.

KEEP THE RECORDING just in case it proves useful in the future, but right now I wouldn't give it any more credence than if you were to hear your WH impersonating a prostitute and saying "Me so horney... me love you long time!" or similar. It's an impersonation and a caricature, nothing more. That we know of.

Thanks for confirming what I already knew. He will twist this and turn it into a big joke and then put it on me and say "I can't believe you don't trust me.". As many of you know, I have more than enough patience necessary to wait this out. The golf date is supposed to take place in a few weeks so there will be more emails and phone calls.

The way he was talking was sort of summing up his attitude towards OW. He was sort of telling DB how it is with her. And he got a good laugh out of it too.

I should get access to his computer in the next week which will allow me to get a keylogger on his laptop. Until then, the emails will have to do. Has anyone ever used club mz e-spy? I'm thinking of buying it. It's cheap so I won't be out a lot of money if it doesn't work. It's supposed to work on all phones (he does not have a touch or iphone).

To answer a few of the questions Smiling asked, here goes:

I don't think they are sharing her YET. WH was definitely there first and I know that DB has a thing for her now and wants to [censored] her (his words, not mine). You'll note that WH made a reference to "Everyone gets friends with benefits on her, take turns on her." This golf date seems designed to put the wheels in motion for DB to get his "turn".

No, I did not hear from back from the anonymous email and I don't think I will. I do know from reading WH's email that pictures of him and OW exist but I doubt I will ever get my hands on them.

As for my intentions with this marriage, I just don't know. The fact that I'm 11 weeks pregnant changes a lot of things for me. If I wasn't, I would be leaning strongly towards walking away. That still might happen but it's hard to think clearly right now between this situation with WH/OW/DB, the fact that I'm pregnant and the fact that I recently learned that my mom has breast cancer.

I do believe that WH has had sexual contact with her. He may not have had actual intercourse with her which makes some sense as he would think it's not really cheating (ala Clinton-Lewinsky). I'm certain that there have been sexual acts such as hand jobs and oral sex. Although I'm not ruling out the fact that he very well may have had intercourse with her. And it is WH's OW but DB is trying to get with her too. But he would spin it that it's only DB who wants to get with her and he's trying to help. Maybe they are planning to get her drunk and talk her into a threesome.

I am going to stay quiet and try to act normal. When I say I want to 'move forward' that means one way or another. Either we get counseling and start a very long process of rebuilding our marriage or we get a divorce. I have no idea which one it's going to be.

anne505,

I haven't read this entire thread so plz forgive if this is a repeat but you mention again and again how much Dirtbag cheats on wife. Have you ever thought of informing his wife?? I guess you have no proof right?

The thing is overall, these guys are a-holes. Sorry to be so insulting to your husband but he lies about small stuff and has an attitude of contempt for women as does his whole crew. Do you have to socialize with these people too? I hope you take very precaution since he is a lawyer but you deserve basic respect and I don't see it coming in your marriage. Years of that alone would be enough to divorce. Are you even thinking of it or do you feel like as long as he isn't cheating its an ok relationship?

As much as we all want to see marriage building here, the long road of recovery that you spoke about is only really beneficial IF you have a spouse that has basic respect for you. I don't see that happening with him.

I do have proof that DB cheats on his wife. But if I go to her, I will not be able to get proof of WH's involvement with OW.

I do not socialize with these people. I just found out that this is what WH is really like about a month ago. Before then, I thought we were happy and that I was married to an amazing man. I knew that his friends were a bit questionable but he had always been honest with me about the things they did and how he wasn't like that. I feel stupid now for believing him.

I have been considering a divorce. I know that it is just as likely as us staying together. I only wish I had known these things before I got pregnant. And no, it wasn't an accident. It was very much planned and he was thrilled when I told him.

My best friend became pregnant--planned no less--during her WH's affair. It was VERY difficult for her to leave...but she did it. I cannot stomach what I am reading about your WH....it makes me physically ill.....

Just remember.....just because you are pregnant...doesn't mean you are trapped.

DB's wife is not your prime obejective here. YOUR LIFE is. Keep the intel and inform her when/if you can...YOUR life is most important now.

You're right. I think about it every day. It's come to the point that I feel the need to know and have proof of exactly what is going on for legal purposes as much as anything else.

I am not doing anything to let DB's wife know but I am keeping a file to give to her when the time is right. I do know that she suspects that he has cheated on her, has caught him in many lies and has come very close to catching him. She isn't going about her snooping in the right way and she lets him know that she suspects something. I can help her but not until I have what I need which is harder to get becuase WH has a much busier job, not to mention a wife and kids, to deal with. Dirtbag doesn't have children and has a job that requires little thought or skill. He's not very sharp. WH is the smart one which is why he's harder to catch. But I am more patient and smarter than Dirtbag's wife. I will find out what's going on. And then their house of cards will come tumbling down.

Interesting that your WH has this man for a friend...

Were they friends from their school years?

You do have an amazing amount of patience....it will pay off I feel sure.

My WH (now X) signed over custody due to the amount of evidence I was willing to use against him. And the fact that your WH's OW is a potential client leads me to believe he will cooperate with you in a divorce to avoid the embarrasment of having his true character publically revealed.

Here's a thought,

Is there any way you can follow him on this "golf outing?"

If you were to catch him at a restaurant with here, especially if he lied about where he was going or who he was going with, wouldn't that be enough for a confrontation?

Or even better, stake out her townhouse and see if they show up there?

You have known him for 19 years and this is the first you've seen of his dark side. Considering the children and the one on the way, I suggest you gather your strength to consider divorce if needed, but keep it in your back pocket. It might be that his idea of being a Man's Man includes the nasty behavior when you aren't looking. That can be changed if he wants to change it once you confront him. He apparently thinks what he is doing is OK, but there are a lot of betrayers represented here who thought it was OK until they saw the damage done.

I think you are doing great at remaining patient while you gather more evidence. If this marriage can be saved (depending on his deep down character), you certainly have what it takes to create another MB success story. You also have what it takes to do well if you have to go to Plan D. You are awesome!

I'd like to whack some sense into your husband. I suspect he knows how great he has it with you . . . what man wouldn't know that? Perhaps his big man brain excuses his little man brain by telling him that what the wifey doesn't know can't hurt.

You know, I never understood this friendship before but now I'm starting to. They have been friends for 25 years. Dirtbag started cheating on his wife after he almost died from kidney failure and lots a lot of weight. This was 3 or 4 years ago. He started cheating during the summer of 2008. Interesting reaction to almost dying, huh?

I have been trying to think of a way to do this. The thing is that they are actually planning to golf. But, it's the after part I'm worried about. The problem with staking out her townhouse is that I will have my kids with me. There is no one I can get to watch them on a Sunday morning (which is when they are going).