I'm new here. My husband is cheating but I don't yet have enough evidence to confront him. What do I do? I'm so scared and confused.

We need a little more anne.

Your ages?
How long married?
Kids?
Is the OW (other woman)a co-worker with WH (wayward husband)?
How long?
Is the OW married?
What's your clues and evidence?
A little background on your life and marriage.

Sorry your here but we may be able to help.

I am 40, he's 39.

Married 10 years. Together for 19 years.

Two boys, 9 and 5. I'm 7 weeks pregnant.

OW is a potential cilent he is trying to get some business from.

I don't know how long it's been going on or how many times. He met her in November '08. OW is not married and is 39 or 40. She had a bad breakup with her boyfriend in October '09.

Clues are that he isn't honest when he goes out with her. In fact, the first few times, he saw her, he didn't even tell me about it. He saw her in November and I know he gave her a ride to and from the restaurant but lied to me about it when I asked him why he took my car that night. Another clue is that he wanted his friends to meet her. He took her out Friday night and had his friends pretend to call him on the spur of the moment to see if he wanted to go out and then he invited them out with him to meet OW. He made it sound to me (and to her) that it was all spontaneous and unplanned but he planned it out with his best friend (a HUGE cheater) all week long.

I found some evidence in his emails. He and his best friend were emailing back and forth about their upcoming plans for Friday night. In one email, the friend asked if he was planning to [censored] her Friday night. WH answered with a joke so he could always say they were both joking. In a separate email, the friend asked him if I knew he was going out with her or if it was hush hush. WH says "Unlike you. She knows. I'm trying to get business from her." Friend replies with "ya I am sure but does she know what kind of business come on you know you are trying to [censored] her again" WH's reply was "That would be too close for comfort, but would be convienient since she lives five minutes away."

I don't want to confront him yet for two reasons. One is that he can (and I'm sure will) lie his way out of it. The second is that he has no idea I'm reading his emails and if he finds out, he will no longer talk openly in them.

Do I just wait and hope he says more?

How did you get this information? If it was from your (clearly) wayward husband you need to confirm it.

How are you getting his email? Do you have a keylogger or just hacked his passwords?

Do you have any cell phone bill information?




Is this in reference to THIS upcoming Friday night?

You are very correct on both counts. You need more.

I can read his emails because I have his password but he does not know that.

I know about the bad breakup because I saw her Facebook profile and she wrote about in on here.

In reference to last Friday, when he planned for his friends to meet up with him and OW.

Here is what his friend had to say about meeting OW "I liked your girl a little bit of a butter face but you guys looked great together we thought she was going to be all over you friday night Lets go out with her again soon"

Is this enough proof for a confrontation?

I know it's hard, but see if you can get anything else - he can spin that. It's a little vague and a WS will turn it into "Oh, he was just talking about her kicking my butt on the Golden Tee game..." or "He meant our SCORE looked great when we played on the same team!" And boom. You just lost a prime snooping source.

You have a golden opportunity with the email - don't lose your cool and tip your hand that you have his pw. Keep snooping. The best intel will be email between the two of them. Sorry if I missed this, but do you have access to his cell phone, or cell phone records? Those are prime snooping sources. How about his banking statements, credit card bills? Any unusual charges on those?

Can you snoop through his car for evidence? How about getting a VAR (voice activated recorder) to plant in his car to record anything he says while he's in it?

Key loggers - check them out. Go to http://www.spectorsoft.com Can you install one on his computer? They are virtually undetectable and are invaluable.

It sure is for me but he will still deny. We had a guy caught here once in his underwear in the doorway of a motel room and he still denied.

More would be better and before you do anything get a keylogger that takes screenshots on that computer. If he thinks you are onto him he will change passwords. Better if you have a keylogger on it first.

Don't tell him about this place. Stay cool.

Delete your history and cookies from here after every visit.

Have you done snooping? Bills, phones, cars, briefcases, drawers, the garage, everywhere? You need to carefully and thoroughly snoop.

Are you a stay at home mom?

Don't get caught snooping.

If your real name is anne you should consider changing the screen name.

By the way, his frend is a real stinking pile.

What Chrisner said - look everywhere. WS's are notorious for leaving clues. You just need to look to find them. If I had been suspicious, I could have caught my FWH with the first month's cell phone bill. And his emails.

Another thing: see if you can get his cell phone away from him. If it's glued to his side, even when he goes to the bathroom, that's a huge . See if you can get it long enough to check his texts. If they are erased, . Write down the cell phone number and the message for each incriminating text. Check his contacts - write them all down, including phone numbers. Pay attention to odd-sounding contacts, like the name of a company instead of a person's name. Call the numbers you don't recognize (use *67 so your number doesn't show up) and ask for an unusual name, like Jezreal Constantopoulos, or whatever. Any name that the owner of the phone probably wouldn't be called. You don't want to be caught flat-footed if the owner of the phone is the name you ask for.

A private eye would probably wrap this one up pretty quick.

I do have access to his cell phone at times but he doesn't make frequent calls to her. There migth be another phone (his cheating friend has another phone) but I haven't been able to find one. As for cell phone records, his work pays for his phone so I can't get to those. I check the banking statements and credit card bills but nothing unusual.

He cleaned out his car after his weekend so I'm sure there isn't anything in there but I can check. Which VAR should I get? That sounds like a great idea.

A key loggers doesn't help me since his laptop is his work computer and I can't put anything like that on it. He doesn't use our home computer.

I know with what little I have, he will deny and say his friends are playing a joke on him. I'm trying to remain calm but this is so new to me and being pregnant doesn't help (yes, it was planned).

I am a stay at home mom. I am not using my real name.

And, yes, his frend is a real stinking pile. And, as much as it breaks my heart, I'm beginning to think he is too. The friend has cheated on his wife for two years with at least three different women. WH would used to tell me all about it.

Get the evidence and then come back here.

I can't afford a private eye.

I'm trying to get proof. I will just keep reading the emails. It's almost impossible to pretend like nothing is wrong. How do you pull that off?

You can install a keylogger on his laptop if you can get it away from him for any length of time. You can install a keylogger that will email reports to your email address. It only takes about 10 minutes to install. The program erases its own files. You may have to tell the spyware program to ignore the keylogger program. What is your reluctance to install it?

I can't remember the name of the VAR I used, but plan on spending at least $40. The first one I bought ($25) was worthless.

I thought it was illegal to install a keylogger on a computer you do not own. WH is a lawyer. I'm just trying to be careful.

Where can I find a VAR?

You think your lawyer H will take you to court? Get the keylogger.

Check RadioShack for the VAR.

His boss owns the computer, not WH.

I'll look at RadioShack.

I would make some calls anyway. You might be surprised. If you catch his emails making another date sometime soon this would all be over in a few hours.

Be sure to print and hide multiple copies of whatever you find.

I am keeping copies of everything. I checked his computer and he keeps it pretty clean so I'm not getting anything off of that without the keylogger. I will get a VAR. I think that will help a lot.

This makes me so sick! I can't believe I'm pregnant and in this situation. Thank you for being so helpful. I hope this gets resolved (one way or another) sooner rather than later.

I have the gut feeling and some minor evidence of WH's affair but it is not enough. What I have could be explained away as a prank by his moron friends. I need more proof but it's just so hard not to confront him. Where do you find the patience for the waiting game?

How much snooping have you done? have you checked cell phone records? Installed a keylogger?

Admittedly, I don't have it....and I am a very patient person.

However, since your husband does not know that you suspect anything, then you do have the upper hand. Having an affair is very difficult. Lies upon lies, hiding things, covering up things, etc. If you can be patient, then he WILL slip up and you will find out. If you confront too fast, then he'll go underground and it will be more difficult.

There are a lot of posts here that deal with snooping. Check the cell phone records, get a keylogger, get a GPS, and a voice recorder (thats how I finally found out) because she was talking to her friend about her affair (some friend huh).

Don't confront until you have some proof, they will just lie.

This all started Saturday so I've made my way through all the emails. Cell phone records don't help since OW is a potential client of his and he took her out Friday night (said it was business but I found out otherwise). No keylogger yet but I do oplan to get an AVR this week and place in his car. Any advice on where to put it or how those work? I am clueless!

How would a GPS help? This is all so new to me. I know his friends met her and they are helping to cover up too. The best man from our wedding (although he is a huge cheater so I shouldn't be surprised). This is horrible

get some velcro and you can put it under the seat or steering wheel or inside dash

Anne- I know it is frustrating, but could you please stick to one thread and maybe add a signature line. There are a few newly BS on here today and we might get confused and you will not get the help you need if we keep asking the same questions. You can click notify on the bottom of your post and ask the mods to combine your threads. Thanx


As far as how you find the patience, well it is hard. I was very bad with AO's and I would not be able to contain what I had found. It was bad because it would make my WH go further underground and make it harder for me to find things.

Anne,

It may help a little to just use one thread on here. I just read your other thread and I'm a little more caught up.

First of all, I"m so sorry you are here- but, you are in the right place and you are not alone. You will get some great advice from many who have been through this. You have already gotten some good advice:

Keep snooping
Don't confront just yet.

I got a VAR at best buy for around $60. Make sure you get a digital one that is voice activated so the batteries last longer. If you suspect WH is talking to skank in the house, place it in that room. If you think WH talks to skank OW in the car, place one there too. There is a separate thread on SPying 101 that has some good advice.

Keep copies of the emails you are reading as you may need them down the road.

As far as patience- can't help you there. I snooped for quite a while and I still am! It does help to know that you are no longer simply a victim in this. You are now taking action.

Best of luck.

get a digital voice recorder and use the VOR (voice activated feature) and plenty of batteries. Be prepared for what you may hear. My experience was very painful.

If he has an iphone or blackberry there is a download called flexispy. I havent been able to use it but it looks promising.

A GPS in his car will track where he's been going. If he winds up at her house or somewhere else he shouldn't be, you'll know. A PI or a friend that he doesnt know can also help.

What surprised me most about my wife's affair was how she turned from a sweet, innocent girl next door into a master manipulator and BIG TIME LIAR, even swore on my kids' lives. Don't underestimate what you may be dealing with.

Good luck.

Thanks for all the advice. I apologize for not using better manners no the forum. This is all so new and I'm in a state of panic. It's so hard to deal with the constant anxiety. Again, thanks for all your help.


Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)

Here is an email update. I guess a friend of WH played a prank on him him and he is mad. He told their mutal friend that he would get back at him. Here his the mutal friend's reply:

"I just talked to him. DO YOURSELF A FAVOR because he is not in the mood i guess he has lost a lot of money in the stockmarket. Do you know that he took a picture of you and your girl on Friday with his iphone. He says he is going to make a profile page on facebook and use the picture and state all these reasons that he likes this girl and wants to leave his wife. I AM TELLING YOU LEAVE IT ALONE"

Any thoughts on this latest development? WH hasn't replied yet and might not since he might just use the phone.


Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)

Has your husband cheated before? Just wondering because he sure has some sleazy friends.

Well, I'll throw in a comment here about how he's a low-life dog for doing this to you while you're pregnant, but he's a low-life dog for doing it to you at all. So I'll leave that there, and tell you to take care of yourself. Eat healthy food. Rest. Light exercise. Walking is good for the baby and a good stress reliever. Try to do good things for yourself. Don't neglect yourself right now. I know that's easier said than done. Take care of that baby.

@ believer - If you had asked me that question a week ago, the answer would have been no. Now, I can only guess that this is not the first time. His best friend has been cheating on his wife for three years. I've known about it all along because WH used to tell me all about it. Lately, he's stopped talking about it and telling me nothing is going on right now.

WH's father cheated on his mother when he was young and destroyed their marriage. Both friends in the post above are cheaters. I guess I should have seen this coming. I feel so stupid.

Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)

@ marital bliss - Thank you so much for the kind words. It brougth me to tears to know that someone cares about what I'm going through.

Can you believe he told me in December that he wanted another baby and we tried for three months to have another kid? He was overjoyed when I told him and sent me roses. I am simply in shock.

Anne, it's possible that your H did not cheat on you prior to this since he was talking to you about his friends. His going quiet about them is a red flag to me.

You've gotten some great advice here. I would also add:

1. Ramp up the snooping, however/whichever way you can. The sooner you have evidence to confront, the sooner you can begin taking the next steps to bust up the affair and hopefully save your marriage. The longer the A goes on, the harder this will be.

2. There are some things you can begin doing RIGHT NOW, even before you have enough proof.

---read up on everything here. Basic concepts; Plan A, Plan B, etc.
--- figure out what you think his ENs are and start executing a Plan A to meet them.
---The reason you got here most likely was that the two of you stopped meeting each other's top ENs. You created an atmosphere where someone else could come in and meet them. You share that fault with your husband 50%. But remember...


THE AFFAIR IS IN NO WAY YOUR FAULT. Whatever was wrong or missing in your marriage to date, can be addressed and fixed. His choosing to have an affair to "fix" it, it completely his fault and his alone. He owns 100% of the blame for the affair.

@OurHouse - Thank you for the advice. I really just want to know what I'm dealing with and it kills me that he would probably lie to me if I talked to him about it now.

This may sound like a stupid question but how do you know when you have enough proof? I won't be able to get photos so when do I go to him with what I have? Advice?

Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)

This sounds manufactured, to me. Is it possible that your H knows you've got access to his emails? Maybe I'm just overly suspicious...

Let us know what you've got and we'll tell you when you're ready. Don't go off too soon and blow your cover.

There are a lot of and I know it's difficult to remain quiet. But you've got to do this right now.

Anne- STAY CALM, COOL AND COLLECTED.

This is really hard and it may get even harder for you so you definitely have to take care of yourself.

I don't like the feeling of that email. I guess you know which friends you are going to ask him to stay away from if you have a chance to R your M.

I can't even imagine going through this all while you are pregnant. Take care of yourself and listen to what the people are telling you on here. You will be FINE.

@maritalbliss - I know, I considered that possiblity too and wish it were true. However, he is acting soooo strange. I'm sure if I confront him, that would be his story. I need proof one way or another since I've lost trust in him. There are just too many red flags. As for proof, these emails are it. Everything else is just clues and red flags. But I feel the emails, especially the one where the friend asks WH if he's goign to [censored] this girl again says it all.

@Scotland - yes that email (along with the others in my post) tells me what I need to know. But, I need solid proof he will just say it's a joke or he was trying to see if I check his email. As for him staying away from those friends, I sadly think that will never happen.

No luck getting a voice activated recorder. Best Buy and Radio Shack had voice recorders but they were not voice activated. Any suggestions?

Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)

Google VAR and see what you get. (delete your browsing history when done).

You need to have some solid proof because when you do confront, chances are he'll deny everything and you have to stand firm in your convictions without divulging your sources. If it's vague stuff you have and you are not feeling sure, it's possible for him to derail you. Thinking about it like a chess game...you've got to plan about 3-4 moves out...might help you stay calm and focused.

Also, rethink the keylogger. I know it's a work computer but I doubt he or his employer will drag you into court. Once you get your evidence and print/copy it, you can delete the keylogger. You never have to tell him how you know what you know. Just that *YOU KNOW*.

@OurHouse - I am sure he's cheating. But I do understand that they will deny, deny, deny unless you have solid proof. What I have will be explained away and then he will throw it back on me for snooping and not trusting him. Classic guilty behavior. Plus, me being pregnant works against me because I'm emotional and sensitive right now. He will use that in his favor too. I will check out the VARs and see what I find. I want to buy one at a store if I can but no luck so far.

As for the keylogger on his work computer, I am thinking about it. I am trying to keep in mind how important his job is to me and my kids no matter what happens. I really don't want to cause problems for him at work. As tempting as it is...


Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)

Anne- He already caused problems at his work by doing this with a potential client. I think a keylogger may give you some SOLID proof. As far as the VA, I bought mine at Radio Shack. I just walked in and said, "Can I have a VAR please?" It was on sale so I got lucky.

My WH denied up until the moment when I said, "You know I installed a keylogger, you found it after 2 hours. Think about what you wrote to her." Then he just said, "Yes" but that was all he would say.

As far as his friends, what I meant was that IF you have a chance at recovery, these friends will HAVE to go. It will be a condition of yours. You'll see what I mean in time.

Anne, if he is cheating with someone at work, exposure could very well mess with his employment. But you will HAVE to expose at the workplace. Just something to think about.

Then skip Best Buy and Radio Shack! I got mine at WalMart. Try there. Try any store that has an electronics department.

Put it under the dash - there should be an opening that is near the steering column. There may also be an area on the passenger side just below the glove compartment. Under the seat may work, depending on where the seat adjustment device is placed. Use velcro - liberal amounts, you don't want it shake loose and drop on the floor.

Try it out on your own car first, to determine best placement. Place it, then drive around and talk to determine where you'll get the best audio.

Honey, you'd better consider his losing those friends as one of your requirements for R, or you'll find yourself here again.

@OurHouse - OW is a potential client so they don't work together. Thank God for that since he doesn't get to see her much.

@maritalbliss - thanks for the tips on the VAR. I'm working on it!

Believe me, losing those friends is key if we want to stay together. I just don't think he will give up his friends. I guess what I'm saying is I don't have much hope.


Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)

So, listen to what you're saying. Your WH would rather lose you and your children (including the one he was thrilled to hear was on the way back at Christmas-time) so he can hang with his friends? They sound like a bunch of damned frat boys!

First, I suspect he will lose the friends when he's out of his fog and realizes what he has done. Second, do you really want a life like that? With these guys around, constantly chipping away at any boundaries your H has? Think about that. Decide later.

I don't even know what I'm saying or doing anymore. It was just a few weeks ago on March 3 that I told WH I was pregnant and he was thrilled. 10 days later and my entire world has been turned upside down.

Right now I'm biding my time because I can't check his email until I know he's not in it. It's his work email so it will be awhile before I can access it today. I've been researching VARs but I'm so confused and overwhelmed by everything that I can't think straight.

What keylogger software does everyone recommend?


Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)

Does he use a blackberry? Or an Iphone?

Google Flexispy. Its great for those types of phones.
Then if he is accessing his work emails from his phone, you would be able to capture a lot.

So sorry for what you are going through Anne.
Talk to your OB on your next appointment and ask for their recommendation on dealing with the added stress.


When you are ready to confront him -- do not feel like you have to justify or reveal your sources. Just look at him and say "I know."

This should help.



Keylogger Reviews

He uses a regular cell and either doesn't text much or erases them a lot. I can access his work emails but I have to wait until he's not at work. I don't know what would happen if I tried to read the emails while he was logged on at work. Seems like that could cause a problem.

Thanks for the kind words, Lexxxy. It really means so much. I was thinking of speaking to my OB but I'm just so ashamed and embarassed. I have an ultrasound on Thursdy. Was supposed to be a happy day for me and now I can't even think about it. The week of my first OB appointment, he was busy making plans for his Friday night outing (March 19) with OW and his horrible friends.

I don't want to reveal my sources but I do want to have more proof so he can't lie his way out of it.

Thanks chrisner!

Your M is a priority AND also is the little one growing inside of you.
Dont let the A take away from what you need in order to keep youself healthy and in turn the baby healthy.
If you think it will make you FEEL better to talk to the OB about your "mental crisis" then dont be afraid of doing so. Doctors can help you better deal with your PHYSICAL symptoms when they know you mental state.
If you are embarrsed to reveal details, then perhaps you can let him/her know that you are having M issues and the home evrironment is pretty stressed at th emoment, meawhile you want to make sure that you have the tools you need in order to insulate your body & baby from the mental stress.
Post D day I fell physically sick, could not eat could not breathe and barely could function and take care of the 3 semi-independent kids. I cant even begin to imagine keeping my body in a state healty enough for a pregnancy.
Thank god women are strong enough mentally and physically to deal with childbirth. I have no doubt that you can dig deep in and pull out the strenght you need to survive this.
Dont be afraid to take help from where ever you can get it. If talking to the OB will help then do it.

I talked to my OB about H's A. He (OB) was wonderful - very understanding.

@maritalbliss & wannamoveforward - Thanks for the advice. I am starting to worry about the effect all this stress will have on my baby, not to mention my two sons. Due to my age, I will have a CVS test to make sure the baby is all right. I was so worried about the test and now I don't even think about it. Instead, this is all I think about.

We're planning a trip to my mom's for Easter and I just don't know how I'm going to get through that. I was planning to tell her about the baby then but now I just don't know. What do I say? "Hey Mom, I have good knews and bad news. Good news is I'm pregnant. Bad news is my husband is cheating on me."

Thanks so much for all your helpful advice and for listening. I don't know what I would do if I had to get through this alone.


Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)

Yes.

You can do this, just pay close attention to your body's needs. You are going to have to pull it together even if it for short bursts in order to be able to function enough for all 4 of you.
As far as telling mom I think I can turn into a positive form of support. Who better but another mom especially your own can understand what your body needs to be able to get thru in order to have a healthy smiling baby.

Tell your mom what is going on. She may be in a position to help you, at least with emotional support.

Could your parents help you afford a PI?

Can you talk to your parents without this blowing up and your H finding out?

My mom is divorced and recently laid off so she can't provide financial help. Although she would let me and my kids move in with her at any point so that is a comfort.

As far as telling her, I'm afraid she would act different around him and might clue him into the fact that I'm on to him. I'm just so sad since I was going to tell her about the baby and then maybe do some maternity shopping. Now I think it might be best if I just keep quiet.

It's tearing me up inside that this is keeping me from being excited about my baby.

Hi Anne,

I think I read that your husband is an attorney and that OW is a potential client? If that is true (meaning he's not lying to you about her potential as a client) then you've got a golden opportunity for exposure once you get your definitive proof.

If he works in a firm (and he's not a solo) I'm sure the partners or his supervising attorney would not appreciate his trying to or bedding a potential client. That would create a HUGE conflict of interest in their representation of the client. It's also a big no no in law firms.

Hi princessmeggy,

Yes, WH is a lawyer and I have confirmed via some emails that he is trying to get business from OW. He works in a very small firm and they are submitting a proposal for this business very soon. One problem with his firm is that I suspect his boss is a cheater and wouldn't care about the relationship as long as they get the business. I don't know that for sure, it's just my gut telling me that.

Saturday nigth (the night after his outing with OW and scumbag friends) he was telling me how great it would be to get this business and how it would be so good for us financially because we could move to a bigger house, have better schools for the boys, etc. It's so weird because he was talking all about our future but now I'm starting to get concerned that he might have plans for OW to come in and take my place. She does not have kids and is not married.

Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)

Why do you suspect that his boss is a cheater?

Why do you suspect he wouldn't care about the relationship?

Why do you suspect that his boss is a cheater?

Why do you suspect he wouldn't care about the relationship?

I seem to remember WH telling me about some rumors floating around the office about boss and some employees. It's a small firm so business is really important. I think he would rather have the business than worry about anything else. I'm guessin though so who knows?

I'm having trouble figuring out how to quote previous posts. Bear with me while I figure this out. Thanks!

Did you say OW is on Facebook? If so, go to her page now before you're blocked and get a copy of all her FB friends' names. Store it somewhere safe and delete your browser history. This will be VERY useful in the not so distant future.

You are doing amazingly well. If you just can't put on a happy face and act "normally" around your WH, tell him you're tired because of the pregnancy or your hormones have you in a tailspin. He'll never question it.

You do need to work hard on a Plan A.
What are his top ENs? How well are you meeting them?
What about LBs, do you have them under control?

It's very hard to suck it up and do Plan A while your spouse is wayward but the thing is you have to show them that marriage with you is more attractive than that nasty old skank they're obsessing over. Every LB you commit, he will tell himself how rotten you are and how great OW is. Every EN that you aren't filling is a missed opportunity for you to make deposits in his love bank, when you know she's making deposits. So read up on Plan A if you haven't already, and put on your game face.

Boy, I hate to bring this up...

....but talk to your OB about STDs.

I wonder if she knows he is married? Pretty common.

Wow, thanks for the tip on Facebook friends. I never would have thought of that.

Thanks for the kind words. I'm still trying to get evidence and then I can proceed. As for EN's, I have no idea. Until just a few days ago, I thought everything was fine and we were doing really well. How do you figure out your WH's ENs? Sorry if this is listed somewhere. I'm still trying to figure it all out. Where can I find the info on LB?

Yes, I already thought of this. It makes me sick but I did think of it. I will have to talk to OB about it.

Chrisner - she does know he's married. In fact, he had me add her to our Christmas card list just this year. The fact that I sent a picture of my adorable kids to her makes me sick.

Here is a telling quote from today's emails. This was sent to him by his scummy friend who is a huge cheater:

THE TRUTRH IS WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS ON EACH OTHER, ALL OF US. I HOPE WE CAN CONTAIN IT FROM GETTING TO OUR WIVES.

WH did not reply. One of the emails was from WH telling his friend to call him. Wish I could have hear that conversation.

Wow, that's a keeper for evidence.

Does he have a blackberry or other smartphone? You can install flexispy and hear the convo's.

Are you printing these off and/or saving them, anne? This is VERY valuable info.

Anne..another thought. Are you erasing your tracks on the home computer? Deleting browsing history so he doesn't know you've been here, doesn't know you're looking for VARs and doesn't know you're into his email?

Well, I guess I can officially call her ButterBall now.


What do you know about your WH's sleazy friend's betrayed wife?

Something is clearly not right with your WH and Sleazoid.

Keep you browser clean.




I think we are getting close to something big soon.

just be careful. In my attempt to make sure I deleted my browser history I accidentally erased WH's entire profile. He was MAD because he thought I did it on purpose to erase him from my life. Funny thing is that his profile is still on the computer now but only because he did something to the computer so the kids can only play a certain game on his profile.

Ha! I never heard the term Butter Face before. I finally looked it up.

Here's what I found:

1. BUTTERFACE A girl with an exceptionally hot body but an exceptionally ugly face. Everything but-her-face is attractive.
Damn look at the cans on that girl but her butterface would scare small children and large dogs away.


So Sleazoid told your WH essentially, �Your girl's face could make paint peel but she looks real good on your arm.�

Really? You never heard of that? HEHEHEHEHE How old are you? j/k

I have heard that one MANY times.

I have heard other things like, "I would wrap a flag around her head and F her for my country."

I was in Air Cadets and it was predominately male organization. I heard A LOT of disgusting things.

Anonymously tip off the friend's W about his adulterous activities.

Thanks for all the feedback. It's really helping me. I am keeping track of the emails and printing them. I'm also deleting my history every time I use my computer.

He does not have an iphone or blackberry.

As for the butter face comment, I don't get it because OW is fat.

@ManInMotion - I've been thinking about that. How do I do it without getting caught?

@chrishner - I know the names and approximate dates of three different women the friend has slept with over the past two years. I have an emal address for one and facebook info for another.

I think WH might be real sorry he had his friends meet his OW. It seems like it opened a can of worms for him. Good.

Here is a question to anyone who has been in counseling. Is it possible to go before an affair is revealed? Would this do any good or make it worse for me to prove in the long run?

My experience with the MC was non-productive while WW was in an A. She did not heed any advice, and blatantly disregaurded everything we would agree to with the MC present. In order to fix your marriage you have to end the A through exposure. Plan it out don't do it in a sloppy angry mess.

I was thinking the wifes of your WH friends, they might want to know their husbands are cheating on them. To everyone out there, could this be a team effort between anne, and the other WHW?

So the affair did not come out in counseling? I was hoping that might be an option. I guess I didn't really think so but was hoping. Still trying to figure this all out!

I knew about her A, and there were problems previous to counseling. I confronted her about 2 weeks after we went to counseling, but it didn't really change anything. There was no motivation on her part to fix the marriage until I exposed about 2 months later. So far 4 weeks have gone by with no contact with the OM, and she is actively engaged to fix our marriage.

She is counseling by herself, and we are doing MC now...lots of stuff to do.

Anne:

Dr. Harley's standard advice is that counseling or coaching won't work while there's an active affair.

I love the idea of narc-ing on your WH's wayward friends. The more eyes you have, the better.

I have decided to go to counseling on my own to deal with my depression and anxiety. If I don't do something, I will go crazy. I think it will help to talk to someone while I try to figure this out.

It will help. The Harley's do insist that the BS be on anti-depressents or get counseling so you don't go "crazy". Its tough to see the alien inhabiting your spouses body. It will also help you calm down enough to think logically about your plan to fix your marriage.

Thanks for the feedback. I am calling today.

Yes, that makes sense. I don't want him in counseling with me if all he's going to do is lie anyway. I'm still at the point where he will deny it to my face if I confront him now. I'm trying to be patient.

as for narc-in on his friends, how do I do it without getting caught?

Set up a lunch date with some of the friends wives. If they are friends of yours this would be easy. If they aren't, then you might have to do it without him knowing. Bring them here, share snooping techniques, and evidence. Im sure your hubby and his friends are discussing and using the same hiding techniques.

None of us are friends. It wouldn't be at all normal for me to conact any of them. How could I do it without him knowing and without getting caught? Anonymous email? Can my IP address be tracked?

Does your husband snoop on you? I doubt it, he is too busy trying to hide his own crap. You can figure something out.

I don't think he snoops on me and I opened an hotmail account in order to store emails in there. But, if I use it to contact friends BS or one of his OW's can it be tracked? He works with some IT people who know a lot about IP addresses. I would like to set some things in motion so that more info will come out for me to collect.

Hang on. Don't be too quick to expose this site to these women. They may run to their husbands, blabbing about you, your H, this site...the other H's will be spinning like crazy and then your H will be aware of this site. Don't expect these women you don't know to immediately embrace the concepts of snooping, etc.

@maritalbliss - I will not tell anyone about this website. The wife would go to her husband and he would lie his way out of it as he has done in the past. I have names which would give her the proof she needs. She has suspected him of cheating before but he was always able to convince her he's not. That would be hard to do if she had names and contact info for the women involved (who, by the way, don't even know the friend's real name).

Go to the library...they have computer access. Open another account..yahoo,gmail...etc. and email them from there. You don't even have to identify yourself until you know what their reaction is.

One problem with that...I live in a different town than the friend's wife so the IP address being traced back to my town's library could be a problem, don't you think? I'm just trying to find a way for this to work without blowing up in my face.

If you don't want them to be able to identify you, send a letter via registered mail that they will have to use their ID to retrieve at the post office.

I LOVE the library idea,
If you are concerend about town how far does the friend live ?can you visit that library and send from there.

Go to the nearest big city's library and do it.

Simple.

1. Create a new GMail or Hotmail e-mail account for the purpose

2. Use the account only from a public connection (WiFI) that can't be traced back to you.

You can also configure your PC to use an anonymous proxy to hide your IP address. Google "anonymous proxy" for more details.

When you configure your PC to use one, send a message to yourself, then check the message headers, to confirm that connection's IP address is not listed in the headers.

Even better...if you know someone who can 'spoof' your husband's work IP....you can copy/paste the emails and send them along!

Anne --

I suggest holding off on exposing his scummy friends for now.
For one reason: Once one of them gets busted, the rest are going to be wayyyy more cautious. You need to get your spying done, and the proof you need before he senses any danger!

Concentrate on catching your wandering husband.
Work on eliminate any love busters.
Work on meeting his top emotional needs.
Work YOUR plan.

I commend you for exposing what you know to the other betrayed wives -- but I would hold off on that for now. Work on your situataion first. Then after you have confronted your husband and worked out your plan for reconciliation -- then you can inform the other betrayed wives OPENLY and guide them here for assistance.

I agree 100% with Lexxxy.

Get your solid proof and work on Plan A.

@chrisner and Lexxxy - you are right. I'm going to hold off and see if I can get solid proof. I think things might die down a bit on the emails until the next time he has plans to see her. I'm going to be patient, see a therapist and snoop.

Agree. They should be part of nuclear exposure.

I agree too. But that shouldn't stop you from developing a strategy of how you are going to expose to them!

A pregnant gal only has so much energy!

I suggest you focus on 3 things: self-care (pamper yourself!)
and develop your Plan A while also preparing for exposure.

But you can start on 1 and 2 today -- while you wait for evidence.

Do something nice for yourself. (Pedicure. Personal favorite)

Then figure out what made your marriage vulnerable to an affair.
What does OW do for him that is pulling him away from his family?
Often times its an ego stroking.

But I will also say that it seems like men OFTEN cheat when wives are pregnant. So maybe that is at play here too.
Maybe the pregnancy messes with his mind in regard to sexual attraction to you. ?? Just throwing that out there.

How do you develop a strategy to expose the A? It's one thing to confront the WH but how do you expose it? What is the typical reaction from WS once A is exposed? Sounds like something that would make them really mad. Can someone brief me or direct me to this info. I know that much of it is on here but this is all so overwhelming and I'm having trouble keeping it all in focus.

Lexxxy - thanks so much. I know men often cheat on pregnant wives and now I'm wondering if anything like this happened during my first two pregnancies. But, from what I can tell, he has been with this woman before my pregnancy so I'm not sure that's it. He doesn't see her a lot. It looks like he last saw her November 5th (about a month before he told me he wanted another baby) and then not again until March 19th. One of the key phrases to him by his friend in an email was "come one you know you are going to try to [censored] her again". Now I am dying to know when exactly it started (I know when they met but when they first sleep together?) and how many times it's been. Really, from what I can tell, he doesn't see her much. I am concerned that could change. She lives very closeby.

hehehe -- an understatement. They go ballistic.
But come on, really? Who should appropriately be "angry" in this situation? The person who was lied to and cheated on -- or the one who got caught?

But they throw an absolute tantrum when exposed. And they follow a VERY predictable script.
"how can I ever trust you now that you told everyone?"
"I was just about to end it."
"this is nobody's business but ours."

blah blah blah.

We'll fill you in on more so you know what to expect when you are ready.

As far as the confrontation goes -- it can go just about any which way. He might be humbled and shamed. He might try to deny. He might try to flip the discussion to you and your snooping (very common...blame YOU for snooping and throw a big fit, rather than admitting what he did.)

For exposure -- its best to do it all at once. Since he is going to throw a monumental hissy fit -- its better to get it all over with at once. Why piss him off over and over again?
Plus he will try to stop you if you do it in little pieces. He will bargain, threaten, plead, cry, (etc. etc.) to prevent you from telling anyone. So just do it without forewarning.

Anne,

What other changes have you noticed in you husband over the past few months?

Losing weight?
Working out more?
Guarding phone and briefcase?
Withdrawal from you in affection/emotion?
Upgrade in dressing?
New interests?
More nights out without you?

Based on what I've read of the emails he really does not seem that over interested in Butter Face. It's more like a sick big boy game with his friends.

Carrot/Stick thread

This link might answer some of your questions.

Best wishes.

Thanks Lexxxy. Hopefully I will asking about exposure sooner rather than later.

Pepperband - thanks...that is so helpful.

You're welcome.

I'm starting to think that might be it too. It seems he really doesn't want me to know. In his emails with friend about the picture another friend has of him and BF (Butter Face), WH said: Let him know I have his girlfriend's pictures as well so he should simply erase whatever he has on his phone. Like I said, if I ever see a photo he took Friday night anywhere on line, under anyone's name, I will hand deliver the photos I have to his wife. Enough f*cking around. It isn't funny.

Friend's reply: HE IS KEEPING THE PICS FOR INSURANCE. ITS YOUR BUSINESS DONT F*CKIN DRAG ME INTO IT. THE TRUTRH IS WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS ON EACH OTHER ALL OF US. I HOPE WE CAN CONTAIN IT FROM GETTING TO OUR WIVES.

Almost forgot to ask...does anyone know how to handle it if your husband is just screwing around for fun and because he can? Can that kind of situation even be fixed? Also, it seems like it would be LOTS harder to prove. Thoughts?

What a great bunch of friends...

Anne --

After confrontation and exposure -- you're gonna introduce him to Marriage Builders. Its going to be one of the requirements if he wants to stay married.

(I would love to see you counsel with one of the Harleys -- or attend a MB weekend.)

Then he is going to undergo a profound change in his attitude and understanding of marriage. You're going to have a new marriage with new tools.

Now I am not advocating this at all but I would sure like to see his face if he came home tonight and you say, �Hun, I got the strangest email today. I did not recognize who sent it but the subject line was, �Anne you need to see this�. There was a picture attached but I couldn�t open the file attachment. Well I just deleted it after that. Probably some spam. I wonder why it had my name though?�

That would let the feces impact the rotary oscillator.

Where can I find the General Questions infidelity forum? This site still confuses me. Thanks for everyone's help.

Lexxxy - yes, his friends suck. I'm beginning to think he is no better than any of them. The only difference is he is a father and they are not. I hope you are right about the new marrage part. Honestly, I can't see him getting on board with all these concepts but I guess we'll see what happens. I'm trying to be positive. It's so hard!!! I'm constantly on the verge of a panic attack!

Great minds thing alike. I've been thinking about doing that all day long. The email I wrote in my mind was a little more explicit though.

I bet you would see some REALLY interesting emails tomorrow if you did it....

There's nothing like a wayward in panic mode.

It's like the smell of napalm in the morning.




Less is usually more.

There is blood in the water and the sharks are starting to turn on themselves.




I am not sure there will be any more double dates.

That's what I thought but then I also thought it might make him nervous and more careful.

@chrisner - yes, the sharks are swimming chum. You would think some of them might realize it's not all worth it but what do I know? What's most ironic is that the friend with the pics has been caught by his wife a few times so obviously she doesn't care. And they don't have kids. I wonder if WH is beginning to realize that he is the one with the most to lose.

May be its just me,
But I am just wondering,

if your H is POTENTIALLY having an A or is on the slippery slope from an EA to a PA ...

is it not better to CONFRONT him sooner rather that later so that it can be stopped in its tracks, before its too late.

SO he MIGHT deny it. That will be the first time a WH has done that.

I guess I just dont understand what concrete proof like pictures with a P.I. or walking in on the act will do.
IMO if its walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then...
At the very least your H has poor EP's in place and the sooner you 2 can have an O&H discussion about this the sooner they can begin to protect your M from this or any future A's.

@wannamoveforward - it appears to me he's had sexual contact with this woman more than once (i.e., friend asking him in the email if he was going to [censored] her again). I think it might be just sex and that he's doing it for fun. I want more proof before I confront him because I don't want to reveal how I'm getting my info and I don't want him to be able to lie and explain it away as WHs will do in these situations.

Because it will drive him underground. It won't necessarily stop the A. And - even worse - these boys seem to thrive on drama. What more dramatic than a BS confronting her wayward?

Anne --

I wouldn't ever assume that a betrayed wife doesn't care.
More likely is that said scumbag did a magnificent sales job to convince her that she's crazy for suspecting anything.

We call that gaslighting around here.

The waywards always have a ready excuse, or a way to twist the meanings, or a perfectly innocent explanation -- that always makes the betrayed feel like they were totally in the wrong to suspect.

Or the waywards try anger at the snooping tactics as a way to disarm the betrayed. "how dare you access my private email..."
while completely ignoring the bigger offense...

I think its far better for you to know EXACTLY what you are dealing with so that those manuevers can't be used on you.

And I think eventually these other wives should know exactly what the boys-club has been up to....
But for now, use your energy on your situation!

THAT is called having an Affair.
For fun for sickness for boredom for love, just beacuse....
what ever the reason, the act is still the same.
So what are we waiting for

If I suspected, I guess I would not be able to be as PATIENT and calm as you are being.
I would have stared knocking down some walls, buts that just me.
Perhaps this proof gathering process has its merits.
IMHO its just delaying the inevitable D day.

Does that mean that once there is absolute proof the A will stop ??

NOT .....

These "Bad boys" need to make a choice to either remain M to women who unwilling to accept this kind of cr*ppy behavior and its up to the women to step up and scream that this behaviour is UNACCEPTABLE to them.

The need for drama is why plan A is most effective cause it cuts out on the LB's the DJ's and leaves the drama at the door. The WH is so shocked by the rational BS that any drama on their part just makes their actions seem more insane.

Anne wants to make sure that she has irrefutable evidence that her WH can't worm his way out of.

Anne...would be great if you could find a story online or a movie to rent, or somehow something similar to this situation...that you could then bring up with your WH as in a "geez, what is this world coming to...can you believe this?"

And see how he reacts.

Anne, exposure notes.

It's amazing how they all sing the same song when exposed. Don't let that faze you. In fact, since you know it's coming you might be able to convince yourself to find it entertaining. Would help with the stress if you could do that.

Also, get your ducks in a row and expose all at once. Trickle exposure is not nearly as powerful as all-at-once exposure.

And, finally, remember that exposure is not an act of revenge. It is an act of love and protecting the marriage.

--

--Exposure targets
Anyone with influence over your WS or the marriage. WS' parents, siblings, best friend, children if they're over 4. OP's siblings, parents, spouse. Your priest or similar if you're religious. Their employer if they work together. Work exposure should be done *in writing* to the head of HR, the CEO, and WS' boss. All of them should know the others were copied; this makes it harder for them to toss the letter into the trash and forget about it.

--Exposure message
Use a formal letter for work exposure. Everything else is short and sweet: "OP and WS are having an affair. I love WS and I am committed to doing whatever it takes to repair our marriage and make it better than ever. I'd appreciate any advice you might have." The exposure message is not vengeful; it is a message of love.

--No warning
Do NOT threaten to expose, do not tell WS you're going to expose. Just do it. If WS has advance warning, they will tell their friends and family "We are having trouble in our marriage. BS is controlling and angry. BS won't talk to me, won't listen to me. BS is possessive and jealous, and accuses me of insane things. Sometimes I'm scared for my physical well-being, (s(s))he's changed that much. Thank goodness I have friends to talk to, otherwise I don't think I could bear the abuse. OP has been especially helpful in offering insights into how a member of the opposite sex would see things. I just hope we can make it but I'm not sure we can." How do you think your exposure is going to sound after an oscar winning performance like that?

--Exposure after-effects
Your WS is going to be furious. You will hear predictable things like "I can never trust you again. I was going to dump OP and reconcile but you've blown any chance of that. I hate you. I'm filing for D." Don't EVEN pay attention to this stuff. Your WS is just angry because the super-fun super-secret affair is suddenly looking downright tawdry and the fun is turning into a nightmare. Just ignore most of it. If your WS tries to talk about divorce, say "I don't do divorce, I do marriage." Then change the subject. If your WS tries to pick a fight, tell them you'd very much like to discuss things when you can both be calm and rational, and leave the room if you have to. If she says things like "How could you do this?!" tell her you'll do whatever it takes to save your marriage.

Yes, that is exactly what he will do. And I'm sure he will pretend to be sad that I don't trust him. You're right, I need more proof and I plan to get it. Thanks!

If you think I am calm, then you misunderstand. I am in a constant state of panic. I am waiting for more proof. If I go to him with what I suspect, he can explain it away and I'm back to square one. I don't want that to happen. The people on this board have helped me to be patient and not fly off the handle. For that, I thank everyone.

Thanks Scotland, that is exactly what I'm doing.

How strange, I actually did that the other night. He played along about how wrong it is to cheat and how he would never do it. Can't believe a word this man says.

I'm looking for a decent GSP. Any suggestions or are they all pretty much the same? Any ideas on where to hide it? He's started talking about going to the gym again and OW lives closeby. He used to work out in the a.m. but now he's talking about doing it in the evening. Yes, I know it's a red flag and might give me a great opporunity to get the proof I need. I need that GPS.

Thanks everyone. You've all been so helpful.

Can you find a VAR w/ GPS?

I'll check and see if I can find something like that

OW just became Facebook friends with WH's best friend. God this makes me sick.

It will get better, eventually.

How are you doing? What are you doing to get that evidence? You need to get moving so you get on to the next level. You need to get that evidence so you will feel like you are doing something productive.

Have you made your list of people who you will expose to?

What are your WHs top EN? Have you eliminated LBs?

Don't forget the carrot part of Plan A too. There is a carrot and a stick for a reason. You need your M to be more inviting than the A.

@Scotland - I am trying to find a VAR and/or GPS (checking the local stores as I don't want to order online). I've checked email every day but all is quiet since the threats back and forth to show the pictures they have on each other.

I'm working on the list.

How do you figure out your WH's top EN? Working on eliminating LBs and making M inviting (which I honestly thought it was).

I fear and dread the next step but I do know it's necessary. Also, I don't want to try to move into it before I have the proof I need which I don't.

MOST men's top ENs are SF, Admiration, RC, DS and PA. There is also affection, conversation, FS, OH, FC.

My WH would not do the ENQ but I know that SF is a TOP need. He would complain about frequency of SF and that i didn't seem "in to it"(sorry TMI). I also believe that admiration is HUGE for him. He always loved the fact that he could make me laugh. I stopped laughing over the passed few years. I know that POSOW finds him funny(he told me).

You should look back over your M and think about the things that your WH would complain about. You may find clues in there.

That is so sad. But, remember, those people are no friends. They are clearly not morally-minded indididuals and probably encourage other bad behavior as well.

My wife's friend added the OM to her Facebook account, too-- right after she deleted me as a friend. Unfortunately there are lots of people like that in the world.

You could try all EN's on him, and see what gets him going. It could be like your own questionaire. My best bet is that he is no different than any other man. My top 5 ENs are SF, conversation, DS, FC, and PA. Notice I share 3/5 of the top EN's for men, but the other EN's are important too.

How soon is he going to start going to the "gym"?

If it's so close couldn't you just drive over to the gym and OW's and check for his car on those nights?

I think the quarrel between the Bad Party Boys Club will start to severely limit you email intel now.



Anne, you have never really said what the state of your marriage was prior to your H becoming wayward. This is important to understand how to do a really good Plan A.

@Chrisner - not sure on the gym. Both the gym and the OW are very close by so I could check it out. However, if he goes late, I would have my kids with me and that might be a problem. But I guess I have to do what I have to do.

The emails were pretty fast and flowing so it doesn't seem like they are afraid to email about it. I think it just died down after the threats and now everyone is busy with the work week.

That's the hardest part. The state of our marriage was fantastic before all this started. We celebrated our 10 year anniversary, decided to have another baby, he took me on two different weekend getaways over the past few months. He said the nicest and romantic things to me on our trips about how happy we are together. And then Friday night happens and he starts acting all weird so I check the email and BAM! The fact that this has happened before is what is hardest to take. I'm starting to think I don't know him at all.

I got my VAR at Target it is a Sony and sells for about $60. I also bought a Zoombak GPS there. It requires a year subscription (you can pay it in one payment) but you can get real-time info by logging into your account. Does your husband have carseats in his car? If so, I hid the GPS and recorder between in the carseat under the seat cover. I used the external microphone for the recorder and had it just barely sticking out from the cover. My WH has searched and searched his car for these and has not found them (knock on wood!). HTH!

Well just remember adultery attacks just as many good marriages as neglectful ones. At least that is what Harley's experience says.

No car seats. Any other suggestions? Thanks for your help - this board is saving me rigth now.

Anne- I am going to give you a little padded 2x4 right now. It seems like you are trying to get US to tell you what to do and when we ask you a question you say, "I am trying." The day that I bought my VAR, I drove 45 minutes to the mall where I thought I could buy one and I did. I also placed a keylogger on the computer that same day. If you need to get the evidence, you are going to have to DO IT. We can't come through the computer and do it for you. You have to not only TRY you have to DO.

In his car, where would YOU put the VAR(when you GET one)?

Scotland, I'm doing the best I can while dealing with almost constant morning sickness and taking care of my two sons (one of whom is home with me most of the day). Having to work around being sick all the time and my son's schedule limits the time I can spend on trying to snoop. Also, I don't have total access to WH's computer so I have not been able to install a keylogger. I will just as soon as I can get him out of the house without it (it's a laptop and he usually takes it with him). I have one on our home computer but he does not use it. That I check his email every day does not mean I can get on his computer any time I like. I am able to check his email from any computer because they have remote access. I'm glad you were able to move so quickly in your situation and I wish I could as well. Believe me when I say I want this to be over. But I can only do what I can. I do appreciate all the advice I've been given. This is foreign territory to me and I'm just trying to make my way.

I understand that, but you also have to understand that we are trying to help you but we can't do the work for you. It is frustrating at times to be reading your thread and see how you could be doing something and you aren't. I want you to have a GREAT life. I would love it if you could also save your M. It's not that I think you don't have a lot to deal with. We all have reasons why we CAN'T do something. You need to find the reasons that YOU CAN. I hate to see you stuck in the beginning because you can't find a VAR. People have told you where to buy one. Believe me, I suffered some MAJOR 2x4's myself and I learned from them and grew from them.

It's like that old saying, "Give a man a fish, and he will eat for 1 day. Teach a man to fish, and he will eat for a LIFETIME."

That's all I am saying.

On the remote access...she has a valid point, Scotty. I have remote access to my work computer and if I were logged on at work and someone logged on remotely, I'd get kicked off.

I know about that. I am not talking about the emails. She said those stopped anyways. I was talking about the VAR and GPS.

I know that this is foreign territory. It was foreign to all of us here when we first got here. You have to learn and grow through this process and sometimes the 2x4's help nudge you in the right direction.

The VAR is my next project. So far, every store I've been to has not had voice actived recorders, only manual voice recorders which does not help me. I was unable to go anywhere else today as I had an ultrasound this morning. This is something I can not do with my young son with me because he is a huge talker and would tell daddy "we went shopping and mommy bought something". I can not risk that. Just as soon as I have another chunk of time to myself, I will go out and get the VAR. It's very frustrating that every place I have been to does not have what I am looking for. Very frustrating. In the meantime, I am doing what I can by checking email and Facebook. It's not that I'm doing nothing. I know I ask a lot of questions because my mind is not clear and I'm having lots of trouble focusing. I do not expect anyone to do the work for me - how could they? I thought I had simply been asking for advice. Yes, I know I have been asking for lots of it and I am probably asking the same questions over and over. Again, my head is not clear. I really don't feel that there is anything I can do right now that I'm not already doing. For some of these things to happen, I simply have to wait for the opportunity. I do remember everyone telling me to be patient and not blow it. That has been my main focus and something that is very hard for me to do. I start counseling on Monday which I hope will help.

Thanks for the tip. I always wondered what would happen if I logged in while he was logged in. I always make sure he has already left working before checking.

Careful - he might remove the carseats and throw them in the trunk when he's out and about. (Nothing romantic about carseats when you're seducing OW )

Anne, what are your sleeping arrangements? Do you share your marital bed with WH? Get up at 1 - 2 AM, tell him you're feeling queasy, might throw up, whatever, and that you're going to sleep on the couch so you don't disturb him. (Or the den, or wherever the closest area to the laptop is.)

If he has the laptop near him by the bed, toss and turn for a bit and then ask him sweetly if he would mind sleeping on the couch, or wherever, so you can spread out to maybe get over the queasiness. If he takes the laptop with him, you've gained nothing, but that's a smoking gun that there is intel on there that he doesn't want you to see. Double your efforts to get the keylogger on it.

The object here is to get him away from his laptop long enough to install the keylogger. If he takes it with him, you've lost nothing in trying.

Does he ever keep the laptop in his car? Get into it overnight while he sleeps.

Anne,

Wow, so much drama to get absolutely nowhere. Look at it from my perspective for a minute. No matter what your husband tells you at this point, you will never believe him. In your mind, forever, he has had at least one affair. The reason for it is right before you, and it is the same reason for every affair that happens, selfishness.

The real question is, what are you going to do when you find out your 'proof'? Honestly, the proof is irrelevant, it's not going to do you any good, in your marraige or court. What are you planning for the future? You can forgive and try to save your marriage... you can forgive and get divorced... you can not forgive and have those two same outcomes. It's really up to you. What you need to know, is you can't control him, or force his hand on anything.

At this point, I would really evaluate just having a conversation about his actions, and what you feel about them. His responses and words are meaningless, you already know he is a lawyer, I mean liar (sorry, couldn't resiste that one). It just seems like to much stress about trying to catch him, and well, catching him doesn't even matter anymore. What happened in the past needs to be confessed, cacthing him won't really comfort you in the future....

For now, you are in this on your own (on your own meaning no help from your husband), turn to friends and family to help you stay strong to your decision. Stick around the people that will support your decision, without trying to burn your friendships with those in opposition. They don't need to understand your reasoning, it is your decision. Make up your mind about what you want, and then go that direction...

-hang in there

@maritalbliss - thanks for the tip. I honestly never thought about getting up in the middle of the night and doing it. This is why I like this board - someone can always point out the obvious things you sometimes fail to see. I am going to try this first chance I get (he doesn't always bring computer home from work with him).

@RookKev - I do see all the points you are making and thank you for the feedback. I do feel it is most important to get 100% proof so that he can't deny it and try to say it's either some elaborate prank played by his friends or me just being paranoid since I'm pregnant. Only if I have proof will I feel comfortable in confronting him and trying to get him to move forward with me. Given any chance to deny, I think he will. I think it's a bit early for the conversation you suggested and I don't want to tip him off to what I know. Once I get VAR or am able to follow him to OW's house during a "workout" then I will be able to have that confrontation. Thanks again for your feedback. I do appreciate hearing from people with a different viewpoint.

So, how long do you search for proof? When are you comfortable with what you currenlty know vs what events have already unfolded before you? as well as his explanations.

I KNOW where you are at. We get focused on the 'game' of catching someone, and take our eyes off of what US betrayed spouses can't realize in the moment... WE have the power. My post was trying to indirectly to get you to realize that.

All it takes is to be betrayed once.

He doesn't always bring the computer home...hmmm...how do you know that for sure? Is there a chance the computer is in his car and he just doesn't bring it in? Can you get into the car in the wee hours of the night/morning and check it? How about when he's in the shower, getting ready for work? You've got a good few minutes to get into the car while the water's running and he won't be able to hear car doors open and close (my worry in my sitch, and I found that the running water covers up quite a bit of sound.)

I feel like I need to give it another week or two. I also feel like the time is helping me to become more rational and think about what I want. If I had said something a few days ago, it would have been a mistake because I was out of my mind. I still am but I am learning some control.

@maritalbliss - thanks again for stating some obvious ideas I never even thought of. If I don't see it tonight, I will find a way to check the car. I feel so silly for not thinking of some of this myself.

We've got your back, gf.

Right, and I"m not really advising you rush to the conversation either. Just trying to help out.

A couple of things, while I'm thinking about it:

Unless you bought two licenses for that keylogger that you've got on your home computer, the same installation program won't work on the laptop. You'll have to purchase another installation key.

If you go out to snoop in his car while he is showering, just plan to look to see if the laptop is there. You just want to confirm that he's keeping in his car. (My money is on that.) Don't necessarily plan to install the keylogger while he is showering, unless you know for a fact that he a taking a long-enough shower. You don't want to get busted. Just confirm that it's there.

Also, take a note out with you. The note should be some little sweet note "Honey, just a note to let you know I'm thinking of you - have a great day!" So if you DO get busted, you can pretend you were just putting a surprise note in his car for him. "Oh, sweetie - you caught me! I wanted to surprise you with a note!" Leave it on the driver's seat when you're done snooping, in case he catches you walking back in to the house.

Once you find the laptop, plan to put the keylogger on when you know you've got time.

The perfect scenario is if your H takes 20 minute showers, spends half an hour in the bathroom getting ready for work, that kind of thing. Don't forget how he had the laptop placed in his car, which way the handle lays, which way he had it zipped, so you can leave it exactly how you found it.

Anne- I in no way intended that you don't ask for advice on here. That is precisely what this is for. I meant to say to you that you needed to not just TRY to do these things, you needed to IMPLEMENT a PLAN AND EXECUTE some steps towards that plan.

There are a lot of people reading your thread, and there are a lot of people who are trying to help you. Sometimes you need the nudge. I needed it(them) and it helped. People don't just help you by telling you what you WANT to hear, they help by telling you what you NEED to hear.

I think that a better answer for the question about how long you were going to keep snooping could have been, "I will snoop until I get enough proof to EXPOSE." You could get that in 2 days not weeks.

Are you in Plan A right now? Is that what you are doing? I am just curious.

Thanks. You really are helping and I appreciate it so much!

@maritalbliss - wow, thanks so much! You have helped me a great deal and I truly appreciate it. No computer today. I checked in the car and it's not there so that will have to wait. Since it's his work laptop, I will have to download separate keylogger software. I'll have to wait for another opportunity.

Thanks Scottland. I have my plan and I am putting it into place. Thanks to al the wonderful people on this board who have been so kind and willing to help.

My answer to the question about how long was based on my estimation of how long I think it will take me to get proof to expose. For me, that is not likely to happen in two days. This is based on many factors that are out of my control. Despite what's going on, I really don't think he sees or talks to OW very often but his chat about starting at the gym made me wonder if he was planning to pick up the pace. Regardless, I'd rather get what I need and feel confident about it than rush it.

Anne,
I really applaud your patience. I don't think I could wait it out. Trust me, though, waiting until you have proof is the right way to go. There is nothing a wayward will not lie about. Keep coming here for support if you need it.

Thank you. The support I get here is keeping me going.

Anne,

I am so sorry that you find yourself in this situation. I applaud your patience and restraint. I calmly and cooly waited and watched my WH for almost two weeks before I confronted him and I confronted with no LBs and few tears.

I monitored his cell phone, read all of his text conversations with OW, listened to his voice mails and searched his car nightly while he slept.I was up all night anyhow. (-: I was able during that time to watch his moods and reactions and begin my Plan A. It was the most difficult thing I have ever done in my life. My prayers are with you.

God's Blessings,

Say

Thank you Say. It is difficult and I'm sorry you had to go through this too. I don't wish this horrible feeling on anyone (except WH & OW - they deserve to feel this kind of pain). The time is helping me to remain calm and rational. I have my plan and I am working on it at a pace which makes me feel comfortable and in control. Your support and kind words mean so much. Thank you again.

I have a question for those who have used keyloggers. Did you set up a separate email for the reports to be sent to?

Also, any ideas how to find secret bank accounts? I think he might have one I don't know about.

Thanks.

I got my VAR! I'm going to figure out how to use, find a good spot in his car and see what happens. No luck on keylogger software. Haven't had the opportunity...yet.

attagirl...

Very good! Consider trying it in your own car to figure out the best place for reception.

I think I even figured it out already! I'm not exactly tech savvy and find these things intimidating. Right now, I'm feeling a bit empowered and like I have at least some control. That has to be a step in the right direction!

Good job getting the VAR. As far as the keylogger, I am not a good person to tell you about that. When I installed the keylogger on our computer, my WH found it after 2 hours and deleted it. I got what I needed in that time(and I am somewhat relieved that I didn't have more to read, what I did get KILLED me).

When you do listen to the VAR or read anything that you find, please don't confront right away. I know you managed holding it in with the emails, but the things you read/hear may be VERY hurtful. Come on here and vent. Get it all out so you can continue the Plan A. We will help you develop a plan.

Good Job.

Thanks Scotland. All the advice and kind words really mean so much. I will come here and vent about whatever I hear/read so I can remain calm and focused so I can continue to work on Plan A.

Wow, you got what you needed in two hours?!?

Now to find the best location for it in his car...

OW's birthday is tomorrow. I really hope I can get the VAR in there and running so I can hear what goes on tomorrow. I've been checking her status on Facebook every day. She really doesn't seem to have much of a life. She's one of those people who spends LOTS of time on Farmville, Cafe World, etc. (not to offend anyone who plays around on those but she really does spend a lot of time doing those Fackbook games). She sounds very whiney too.

Well, I don't know how long it actually took until he said, "That's why I want to do other things with you so it's not just about sex." That was KILLER. He also said, "You looked cute today babe, thanx. Oh come on, you look cute everyday. I love you. What? You want me to want it MORE. How could I want it more I am already like a horny teenager but that's okay my Babe is a horny teenager too." Just retelling this is making my stomach turn. I haven't looked at the actually things that were emailed to me for about 4 months. It will always be burned into my brain. That's why I am warning you about it. You will be hurt by what you read and hear. I just want you to be prepared.

I was just getting ready to eat lunch. I didn't need all those calories, anyway.

Sorry MB. I already ate lunch.

Chocolate-covered ants and a Diet Dr. Pepper, perhaps?

On pasta of course HAHAHAHA

Anne, be sure to use an email WH has no access to when you get the keylogger. You will receive the occasional keylogger offer via email.
Also, be sure to turn the commputer off a couple of times, to be sure your security program doesn't pick it up. Mine detected it the first time I turned the computer off, so there is where you will put in the rule to ignore it, if you aren't prompted to do so earlier. spector) Good luck, you can do this GF

Scotland - wow, that IS hurtful. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. No one deserves that kind of pain. I do want to thank you for sharing it with me. I know it wasn't easy but it does give me some idea of what I might be in for once I hear the recordings. Reading his emails hurt so much. Whatever I find out this way will likely be magnified 10X. My goal is to hold off on any confrontation until A) I have solid proof and B) I can remain calm. It's not going to be easy but it does help to know I can come here to vent.

Thanks Going Forward.

I put the VAR in the car. For anyone else who used one, how did it make you feel? I am constantly worried that it will fall out or be discovered. I don't know what would happen then.

Also, WH might be on to the fact that I read emails. He and the dirtbag friend were emailing about how the friend is possibly interested in OW. It sounded set up to me.

Just needed to vent about my concerns a little. Thanks for listening.

I know how you feel. I've bought a VAR but haven't had the guts to put it in the car, yet.

I'm 2.5 months in since D-day and have been through half a dozen rounds of discovering contacts and the ensuing confrontations.

She claims that it is done now and that all she needed was closure. But, I still have that nagging feeling that we all know too well.

All the confrontations about cell phone logs, prepay phones, and sneaking around have really exacted a toll from us. I was prone to be preoccupied with the snooping, and she felt like a "caged animal."

Bottom line, if she was to find the VAR in her truck it would be catastrophic to any recovery. On the other hand, if she is cntacting the OM that too would be catastrophic.

Yes, there is the possibility that it will fall. But DON'T worry about that! You are on a mission. If you've velcroed it securely you'll be in good shape.

Also, if you remember, I wondered about the emails being a set-up. But if you're remaining consistently pleasant and acting 'ignorant' (and we all know you're not, so go for the Academy Award)that is immaterial. Just wait for the intel on the VAR.

This should in no way hinder your R. Why do you believe that? If she is truly remorseful she shouldn't care that you are doing what it takes for your healing. She should be an open book - I'm concerned that she feels like a 'caged animal'. There should be no independent behavior interfering with your R.

Maritalbliss - I do remember you questioning whether the emails were a set up. I don't think they started out that way but may be now. I'm praying that all goes well with the VAR. I guess if he does discover it, I will go ahead and confront with what I have. The phrase "He who has nothing to hide, hides nothing" is what I'm operating on.

Yep. That's all you can do, and there's nothing wrong with that. If you've got to confront sooner rather than later, then so be it.

Whaaat? They're talking about passing her around now?

Okay........ewwwwwwwwww

Chrishner - I don't know what's going on. They are either passing her around or he's trying to throw me off track since I know that dirtbag friend is a huge cheater. I'm hoping the VAR will give me some much needed answers. Today is OW's birthday. Dirtbag friend said in yesterday's email to WH that maybe he should take her out for a birthday drink. He also reminded WH to say happy birthday to her to which WH replied "When's her birthday?" I don't know what is going on!

Thanks, as always, for listening. I think I would be going crazy if I couldn't vent about all this.

I was scared about WH finding the VAR and he DID. So I didn't get anything from that from the car. I then took it and put it in the house right near the computer and BAM_O I got him on the phone with her while I was at work. No waste in money there. What's the worst thing that he will do if he finds it? What is the worst thing that will happen? Don't worry about that. You are doing what is BEST for YOU and your M. Good Work.

Yuck. Brings a whole new meaning to "Pass the butter."

OMG chrisner...I can't believe you actually made me laugh about this but you did!!! You are too funny!

Good news...the VAR worked. Bad news, it didn't find anything. Yesterday was very routine. Lots of radio, a call to work, a call to me. Nothing else. If he talked to OW on her birthday (yesterday), then it was from his office. Wasn't able to get to his phone so I couldn't check it. He did write a birthday wish on her Facebook wall and then removed the statement so I wouldn't see it (the notification that would say "WH wrote on Butter's wall"). The message only said "Happy birthday my friend" so it's a huge red flag that he wouldn't want me to see that.

Since I pulled the VAR out of the car yesterday to listen to it, I was unable to get it back in there so I won't get anything from today. I can get it back in there tomorrow and I'll see what happens.

No luck with keylogger. I've been reading up on the issues of installing something like that on a corporate computer and I'm just not sure I want to do that. It may take longer this way but I think I can get what I need.

WH's dirtbag friend has started emailing me to see how I'm doing. He used to do that but it's been months since I've heard from him. Curious that I'm hearing from him now and I'm 100% certain it's to see how I will react to him so they can figure out if I know anything or not.

That's all for now. Sorry that there are no real updates. Things are kind of in limbo right now. I think this is giving me some insight as to what I'm dealing with though. I had suspected that he was seeing this woman only here and there and they were (for lack of a better term) occassional [censored] buddies. Not that it makes it any easier to handle but that does seem to be what I could be dealing with. It will also make my discovery a longer process because there doesn't seem to be lots of contact. I could be wrong but that's what it looks like now. Anyone else ever dealth with an A of this nature?

Thanks marital bliss...great advice. I actually do plan to leave it in there longer next time. I really just wanted to verify that it was working and in a good location. I can also download the contents on my computer and then get it back in the car right away. It's going back in tonight and staying there until Friday. We will be out of town this weekend so it doesn't need to to back until Monday. I'm investing in lots of batteries because it seems to go through them quickly.

I'm sending a very sweet email to the dirtbag friend but not until tomorrow when the VAR is back in the car. WH does talk to dirtbag on the way to work and on the way home fairly often.

Hmmmmmmm..........that's creepy.

Not to mention cold and calculating...

Just chiming in to say you're doing really well. This stuff is exhausting.

I love the names you've given to your cast of characters. "Butter", "Dirtbag Friend" - very descriptive!

Thanks Turtlehead. I couldn't have made it this far without the help of everyone on this board. You're right, it is exhausting. For the first week, I couldn't focus or think about anything else. At least now I'm doing what I need to do and I'm feeling a little more in control.

My "cast of characters" is quite an amusing bunch. I guess I need a more descriptive nickname for WH since those around him are so "colorful". Of course I do have names for him but none of which I could repeat on this board without being censored...

Okay, I just had to share this. Dirtbag Friend (maybe I should call him DF) blogs under a fake name on Facebook. This is what he posted a few days ago:

why are tiger and jesse the bad guys. Did anyone ever take the time to think why. I bet those broads dont know how to give blowjobs . They should concentrate more on how to keep a husband satisfied and a little less time crying about the cheating. Come on people. Its a fact all men cheat. These women need to wake up

What a sicko, huh?

Pondscum.

"All men cheat." Certainly not all. Well, all pea-brained self-centered, insecure, uncaring POS men do.

I really resent this type of thinking as a BH who has always been 100% faithful in my M, as well as any previous relationships from high school to my M.

What a real winner this guy is. I'm guessing DF is single? Can't imagine anyone stupid enough to be with a guy like this.

Anne- just a side thought...

Maybe WH hangs with a lower bunch so as to feel better about himself by comparison?

DF is not single. He has been married for 8 years and has been cheating on his wife for three years. She came close to catching him but doesn't want to believe it.

I'm glad to hear that not all men cheat. I'm sorry you are a BH. No one deserves to have this happen to them.

That is an interesting thought. I've been thinking about this non-stop. WH has been friends with Dirtbag since high school. Best friends. This was the best man at our wedding who gave an amazing toast. It hurts to think about it. Part of me just feels that if these are the kind of people that WH wants to surround himself with then maybe I don't have a place in his life. Seriously, it's like I don't know who he is.

Wow. Obviously DF is justifying his actions with those facebook posts. Guess he can't just rise above his baser instincts and it's interesting how he blames the BS. He's not worth any further thought from me.

I won't attempt judge the character of your WH as I don't really know him or your whole sitch. What I do know that like my WW, these waywards become somebody different when they start the A. It's that whole 'alien' theory and it sure seems to fit.

Save a screenshot of that to show Dirtbag's wife later.

Myself? I would be tempted to create a fake account JUST for the purpose of responding to that really stupid remark.

Anne,

What is the situation at home? Are you in Plan A right now?

What has your husband�s demeanor and attitude been these past couple weeks?

I don't even know him anymore. He's not the man I married. Maybe he was like this all along and I never knew it. Right now I'm questioning everything.

I've been saving info for Dirtbag's wife when it comes to that.

It's tempting to start a fake account and respond to Dirtbag's blogs but I don't want to get off track.

His demeanor hasn't changed. He acted a bit strange last week but is back to normal. I'm working on getting evidence and the carrot part of Plan A. Still checking those emails and hopeful more will turn up. I don't think he's on to me with that yet. The VAR is back in the car with fresh batteries. There was some contact via email between he and Dirtbag today and since the weekend is coming up, I am hopeful that they will talk in the car tomorrow or Friday. I think I will learn alot from what is said when he talks to him. Dirtbag seems to know him better than I do. Wish me luck!

I hope you get something tangible too. I don't hope that your WH is actually doing anything, but I just hope that you can KNOW so you can get past this step and on to the next one. Keep it up. You are doing GREAT.

Not sure if you want to invest in another VAR, but I had 2 so that when I was listening/reviewing one the other was in the car taping. That way I was sure that at least I was monitoring the time that WH was in the car. Yes, they do use a lot of batteries!

I previously shared that I hid the VAR within one of the carseats. Wouldn't you know that a few days later, my WH discovered the microphone! Thank goodness I had removed the taperecorder earlier in the day. Of course he wanted to know what it was. I told him it had been there a long time (not a lie, but I also didn't offer that I was still recording him). Now I have to find another hiding place!


Good luck and I hope that you can get the information you need to move forward one way or another.

t/j Crushed4, I do remember you sharing where your hiding place was and someone warning you that he might find out. Wow EERIE. t/j done

Thanks Scotland. You have been a great source for advice and support for me. I really appreciate it.

Crushed - I do remember you talking about the car seats being a good spot. How strange that he found it shortly after we talked about that. Have you confronted him? If you don't mind my asking, why do you still have a VAR? Just trying to get an idea of what I might be in for in the future. Thanks.

Also, I did consider getting another for that purpose. I'm going to see how it goes with the one I have and take it from there.

My two cents - don't respond to his blog, even anonymously. You're right - it would just serve as a distraction. Plus, the chance is good he would figure out that it's you.

Maritalbliss - you're right. And Dirtbag does not deserve any of the time and energy that I should be spending on my marriage.

How do you get through the really bad days? Today has been very difficult.

Get up. Stretch. Take a walk. Go to the library and pick out a recipe book that has some ethnic, nifty recipe in it that you'd like to try. Then make the meal and eat it.

Go to see a movie (without adultery in the plot.) Plant some flowers. Pull some weeds. Buy new rugs for the kitchen. Buy dishtowels to match. Heck, throw in some new neat-colored cooking utensils while you're at it.

But mainly, get up, get moving. Anne

I was there when he found the microphone. His hand brushed against it when he was getting one of the kids out of the carseat. UGH! Although we are trying to recover, I am still snooping to make sure there is NC. He broke NC so many times after the DD#1 in August. Also, this was not WH first A. I'm probably obsessed but I need to know he is not lying to me anymore. Although I'm not able to monitor his conversations when he is at work. It really sucks!

Definitely get moving.

Also if you're a reader get a book by your favorite author (without adultery in the plot - harder to do than you might think unfortunately).

Take a deep hot bubblebath with candles and your favorite music.

Clean out a closet or the fridge.

Sorry it's a rough one.

Thanks for all the advice. It helps to know the people care. It's just been a rough day. My morning sickness is really bad today (I'm 8 weeks pregnant) and I have been asking myself the tough questions all day long. I found another bad email but it's still not proof and could be explained away (and would if I were to confront now). Just having a tough time today and broke into tears several times today. Tomorrow will be better.

I must say that the above wasn't true for me. I got LOTS of proof and it did help me. First it gave me clarity. Never again would my Wxh be able to gaslight me. Never again would I think maybe I should stick it out. And second, my proof did help me in court. It is what got me total custody of our child and the visitation schedule *I* wanted.

Not all waywards confess.

Anne, I just read through your thread and want to say (((Anne)))

I gathered evidence for 2 weeks (with a keylogger). Then, because I wanted to keep my keylogger source I hired a PI and we busted him out that way. (at least he thot that was how I found out). I filed for divorce, got him to sign a separation agreement, and he moved out of the house. Then I continued to gather evidence from the keylogger for another 6 weeks. It was AGONIZING. However, at the end of that 6 weeks I had proof that he had also had an affair with my young cousin 7 years earlier. When I read that info I nearly fell to my knees and shouted 'Thank you GOD for this gift of clarity!'

My point of telling you all that is that I DO understand what you are going through. It is tough to put on a ignorant face and keep gathering. And I know what you mean about having your chid aroudn who might tell your WH that you wee on his computer that day. I had to keep all of that from my son who was 9 at the time.

Just hang in there. Use your pregnancy as a smoke screen if you can't stand to look at him.....tell him you just feel so bad you need to go to bed or whatever.

Er, um, hey Anne - that method might have worked for SmilingWoman, but I'd suggest you stick to just logging keystrokes, not peeing on his computer. That could damage it.

Sorry, SW - couldn't resist!

Thanks SmilingWoman. I'm sorry for what happened to you and how you got here. I agree about getting 100% proof when you can. The wait is difficult but if I confront too early, not only will he lie his way out of it but I will lose my access to his email which has been my most valuable source. As difficult as it is, waiting and trying to get the evidence I need is the best thing I can do.

Dirtbag friend continues to email me about stuff and how the four of us (he and his wife and me and WH) should get together. Now, we NEVER go out. I also happen to know that Dirtbag is emailing with OW (Butter) about he, WH and Butter going out again soon. He is really playing some sick games and I resent being part of them. I hate that I have to play along. It sickens me that he is getting a kick out of all of this. The worst part is that WH is playing a role in any of it.

After reading what I just wrote, it's hitting me how twisted this is. I really do need to get to the bottom of it and get myself out of this sick situation one way or another.

So WHATCHA GONNA DO ABOUT IT?

Everything I'm doing already...keep listening to the VAR, checking emails and try to get the keylogger on there (computer is VERY hard to get at these days). Just not a lot of info lately - maybe because he had a busy work week.

Why is it hard to get to? Is he guarding it, or leaving it at the office? Are you still checking his car? He's eventually going to have to bring that laptop home.

If the computer is harder to get to than usual, IT IS THE BEST PLACE TO GET INTEL.

I know it is hard to wait. It is hard to Plan A when you are in limbo like that. What Plan A things are you going to do today? What colour are your toes?

Hilarious! LOL

Question for those of you who had success with VAR's. Did you save incriminating conversations on a CD or just take notes once you listened to them?

I would buy extra tapes and save the originals.

Larry

It's digital so I have to download to CD.

Another question...when you confront, do you reveal the source of your information?

NOPE. You try to keep your sources for as long as you can so you can continue to use them. Let us know what you found and we can advise you on the best way to confront WH.

Okay, that is what I thought. I don't have anything new but I think that will change soon. I was able to check his phone and it's been almost a week since he's talked with Dirtbag friend so he's due for a conversation (his last conversation with him was the day BEFORE I put the VAR in the car...RATS!). He usually talks on the way to or from work. He doesn't keep voicemails or texts on his phone unless they are business related but I'll keep checking that when I can. Keep your fingers crossed that I get something good this week. I'll let you know just as soon as I do!

I've been using VAR for a couple months. I still haven't really gotten anything 'good', but you never know. If I did, I would download to my computer/CD. I probably need to get a couple more to put in other rooms. There are times I can hear her talking in her 'isolation chamber', but I think my battery dies before because I haven't picked up those conversations yet.

I had a problem with the mic picking up the TV more than WH and he was sitting right beside it. I didn't need to hear the Lord of the Rings trilogy on VAR, we own it. HAHAHAHA.

I think most of his conversations take place in the car and in his office. There is nothing I can do to get the conversations in his office. The next time I go out, I will leave a VAR in the house near where he might use the phone and see what happens. He doesn't talk on the phone in the house when I am home (I know, I know...red flag).

WH has an extremely busy week at work (I verified this by looking through emails). When he's busy, it tends to be quiet. From what I can piece together, he saw OW mid-July, early November and mid-March. Based on that, it might take longer than I thought to get some proof. I'm willing to wait. It sucks but I can do it. Confronting too early would be a big mistake.

Yes, confronting too early without SOLID proof would be a bad thing. On the other hand, you won't be able to pull off a SOLID Plan A forever. DrH usually recommends that women only do Plan A for 3-4 weeks. Some can do it longer but not indefinitely. From someone who did Plan A, let me tell you, "I BELIEVE HIM." Letting only your GIVER come out is really hard when your ENs are not being met.

I know you may have to sit around and wait to find something on the VAR, is there any other way for you to snoop? Brainstorm.

Scotland - as always, you make some good points. The timeframe of Plan A is something I never thought of. I do need SOLID proof and I need to find a way to get it. I have no choice but to wait for something to happen with the VAR and emails but I do need to find another way to get some info so I can move forward.

Well, now you know why I was being so pushy. It was for you.

So how has your Plan A carrot part been going? Did you eliminate your LB? How are you going to meet your WH's top 3 ENs TODAY?

Not pushy, just helpful and I appreciate it.

Honestly, the carrot part is not going so well. I am having a hard time just acting normal and trying to be a good mom to my kids. I feel like I've been using all my energy on trying to find out what's going on and on simply keeping it together for my kids. I had several bad days last week but I did make it through. I do know how important it is though and I'm determined to work on it. So, my goal for today and in the days to come is to focus on the carrot part of Plan A. I can do it...I know I can.

I've been reading about EN's and LB's and am gaining a greater understanding of them. It was all so much to take in at first but now I'm able to get a grasp of what Plan A really means and why it's so important.

That aside, I am very frustrated that I haven't been able to get anything solid. I hate this state of limbo. Knowing I'm doing what I can does help. So does making my plan. But, as you know, it's all so hard to deal with. But I am dealing the best way I know how. I am determined to keep it together and have a better week.

I wish I was posting about the progress I'm making but instead I have a little vent about technology. I had been using a VAR which worked like a charm last week (even though it didn't catch anything of value to me it did record conversations). After being out of town for the weekend, I put in fresh batteries and secured it in WH's car Sunday night. I was not able to get to it until last night only to find out it only recored 6 MINUTES from the past THREE DAYS!!! WH has a LONG commute so it should have been HOURS! I am so annoyed! I didn't have any time to trouble shoot so I re-set it and put it back in and am hoping it works. I can get to it tonight and will hopefully figure out what happened. I guess one scenario is that he found it and messed with it. Time will tell!

I have a serious question though. Although nothing is happening with my situation, I have obtained some very valuable information about WH's Dirtbag Friend's relationships. I know many of you recommended that at some point, I let Dirtbag's BS know what's going on so I'm keeping a separate file for when that day comes. However, I have recently found an email address for one of his OW's (he has 2 or 3 right now) who doesn't even know his real name. I've read emails between them (Dirtbag forwarded them to WH) and she really seems to like him and believes his many lies. Now that I can contact her, should I let her know his real name, address, etc.? I heard about anonymail and anonemail which lets you send an anonymous email that can't be traced without a subpeona (or so they say). Any of you have any experience with this? I would send it from the library or other location and not from my home computer. Thoughts? I feel really bad for this woman and could potentially get her out of a very bad situation. But, as selfish as it sounds, I don't want to jeopardize my own investigation. Any insight would be appreciated.

Also, the carrot part of Plan A has been much improved this week. I'm proud to say I'm doing much better at it. Thanks for all the advice. You've all been so helpful. Now if I can get that darn VAR to work!!!

I don't have any experience with the anonymous email thing but I do with the VARs.

Have you checked the settings to make sure it is set on Voice activated? Did it record continuously while the car was empty? Sometimes when you change the batteries it may go back to the factory default settings.

Do you still have the instruction manual that came with it? After putting in new batteries, test it out yourself before placing again. I usually say the date into it and then wait a few seconds to see if it goes into 'standby' and then speak again to ensure it picks it up again. I do this each time I place it.

Keep working your plan! Keep doing the best you can with your 'carrot' efforts. We all make mistakes. Just continue to try to improve. You are doing fine.

Yes, the voice activation was on and it went into standby mode. Not sure what happened but I hope to get it figured out tonight when I have more time. I thought I reset all the functions when I changed the battery but I could have missed something. It seemed to be working fine when I put it in there. That's why I think WH could have found it but I hope not!

I've been reading the emails between his Dirtbag Friend and one of the women he's seeing. The lies he's telling her are just out of control. I don't know how he keeps it strait. And she really seems to like him. Sad that she knows nothing about him at all. I want to let her know what's going on but not sure it's worth risking something happening to my own situation (like making WH more careful or putting him on guard). I feel stuck in a moral dilema for sure.

Maritalbliss - I got a really nice digital one by Olympus which had great customer reviews. It worked really well last week. It picked up everything (believe me, I had to listen to hours of radio chatter in order to get through everything). It was in a good spot, secrure, etc. That's what makes me nervous is that it worked for a week and then didn't as of Monday. I'm going to be able to troubleshoot it tonight and hopefully find out what happened. If it no longer works then I will have a red flad that WH found it.

Good advice about my other situation. I am saving everything, making notes and tracking what I can. I know sometimes I'm overly cautious but I don't want to move too fast, especially on the part of the situation that doesn't pertain to me. I'm not used to being so selfish but that's what I need to be right now.

Thanks for the great advice.

I doubt he found it. If he was cool enough to NOT confront you with it, he sure wouldn't only let it capture 6 minutes.

I agree with MB....don't reveal what you know yet....but definitely keep a file to bust Dirtbag wide open and alert all his victims...but just when the time is right for you.

@SmilingWoman - I certainly hope he didn't find it but he is really cool about things and can hide his emotions very well (even better than I thought as I'm learning). He's also turning out to be an expert liar. There was a change of plans tonight so I couldn't check it - I will have to wait until tomorrow. For now, I keep my fingers crossed and pray! This is a setback for sure but one I have to deal with.

I am going to keep quiet about Dirtbag's activities but continue to add to my file. It's too bad I can't get this kind of information about my own situation. I got lots more info on Dirtbag today, including the fact that there is yet another woman in the picture. This is the 6th woman (that I know of) since November 2008. The red flag for me is that WH told me a few days ago that nothing is going on with Dirtbag and that he isn't seeing anyone. He used to tell me what was going on but that has all changed. I realize I no longer know the man I'm married too. I wish I had known about this before I got pregnant.

Looking for some recommendations for VARs. The one I have (a digital by Olympus) seems to be unreliable. I needed to buy a second one anyway but had intended on buying the same one. Now, I don't think that's such a good idea and think this one needs to be my back-up. I left it in his car from Wednesday night through Friday night. It recorded everything up until his commute home (I checked his phone and there was a call made that would have been helpful to hear on his way home). I'm not sure what's going on with it. Any suggestions for my next purchase? I don't mind spending a lot on it (the one I have cost $70 so I'm perfectly happy to spend that much or more on one that will be more reliable).

A question about settings. Since it's going to be in there for a few days at a time, should I change the record mode to one that is more suitable for long term recording? Since it records up to 70 hours in High Quality recording, that is what I have it set on. Maybe I need to change it to standard or long term recording? I read over the brochure and it wasn't very helpful so I was hoping someone had exerience with this. Whent it works, it's great. But it doesn't always work. Ugh!

Good grief. I would think a $70 VAR would work. I would get my money back on that one...

Hope someone has a good recommendation for a good one.

How is it going? Anymore emails?

I am really frustrated with this thing. One day it works, the next day it doesn't. You're right, I should get my money back. I've been researching consumer reviews and hope to find a better one.

No luck with the emails. WH is very busy with work right now (I have verified this). Dirtbag Friend keeps emailing him but it's all about his situation and WH has not been responding much (typical for him when he is so busy). Because of my crappy VAR, I missed two conversations they had this week. Darn it!

The kids are back in school Monday so I can do some VAR shopping and hopefully get a good one! Would love some recommendations from everyone!

I use a Sony (about $60 at Target) and it works really well. I use the high microphone setting on it. I change the batteries every night or switch to a different VAR.

Thanks. There are a number of Sony models at the store near my house. I'm buying a second this week. For now, the crappy one is back in his car simply because I don't have another one. I hope it works! Looks like I'll have better opportunities to check on it this week too and maybe not have to leave it in there for so long. Thanks again!

I use the Sony one. $39 at Walmart.
I use the VOR setting so it will sit in the car all day but only record when someone is talking. I take it out every evening. Keep an eye on the battery level.

Thanks for the recommendations. I'm getting a new one tomorrow. Hopefully it will work better than what I have!

Big development in my situation although it's not exactly the one I was hoping for. While it's damaging, it's not exactly proof but something I might need to act on. Let me explain.

I received an email today from what is obviously a made up email account. Someone (I'm assuming one of WH's dirtbag friends) made up a fake email account using a combination of WH's and OW's names (think "Brangelina" or "Bennifer"). From this account, someone sent me an email and the subject was "your husband". The email says "f*cked OW i have pictures of them together." That is all it says and there are no attachments. In case you don't remember, I do know from reading his emails that there are pictures of WH and OW from the night they went out in March.

My guess is that one of the dirtbag friends got mad at WH and did this to get back at him or as a joke. WH's dirtbag friends are notorious for playing stupid and sometimes sick pranks on one another. As far as I know WH does not participate too much in that. Some of the emails that I saw about the pictures one of them has of WH were threats going back and forth about if those pictures ever showed up anywhere.

So, here are what I feel my options are:

1. Do nothing and try to get more solid proof.

2. Show it to him and then pretend to believe him when he tells me it's not true. In this case, I would hope to get some proof from the emails and phone calls that would follow in the upcoming days.

3. Show it to him and tell him I know. The problem with this scenario is that I don't have enough proof and I risk him figuring out how I know what I know and then becoming better at covering up his activities.

I'm not looking for anyone to tell me what to do. Instead, I am hoping I can get some insight from some of you as to what you feel are the pros and cons to each of my options. As of right now, I am leaning towards option #2 which I feel might lead to me getting actual proof of what's going on. Thoughts? Opinions? All views are appreciated.

You have all been so great about making me see things clearer. Hoping you can help me this time too!

There is some good news in my life. I got to hear my baby's heartbeat today. While my circumstances are not ideal, it was nice to feel some joy today.

You forgot option 4:
Get the pics, then expose.
Do NOT tell your H about this. Yet.

And btw, congrats on hearing the baby! You are blessed, in spite of the other circumstances going on right now.

You could respond to the email by saying you do not believe it and to send the pics. ??

But - what if WH had his friend send the email to guage her response? If she doesn't tell him about it after responding to it, he'll know she's collecting intel.

And if she doesn't respond to it at all he may think that she'd never consider him having an A and deleted it, so he's free to continue.

Just a thought.

Check the email message header and compare to the other emails sent by scumbag.

Check Message Header

Well I am not one to possibly understand the workings of a wayward's logic but it would be hard to imagine an adulterer giving out actual accurate hints about their adultery to the betrayed spouse in order to see if they are being suspected.

But I suppose anything is possible.

I'd reply to the email and say "Really? Send them."

This is something that came up earlier in the thread, the possibility that WH and his buddies were up to something like that.

I'm just trying to cover all the possible scenarios in her sitch.

Wow, thanks for all the really great advice. The only trouble is that I'm now more confused than ever. Which is actually a good thing because many of you brought up points I didn't even think about. Which is exactly why I wanted to hear from all of you.

I didn't really consider the idea that showing it to him would make him more careful but that is a really good point. As for it being a set up with WH involved, my gut says no but it's possible (as we all know, anything is possible) and something I do consider. Also, that's a very excellent point that he may be doing it to see if I'm snooping and me not responding might be a red flag. So hard to know which of the scenarios is the truth. My guts says dirtbag friends are messing with him either for fun or because they are mad at him. Yes, I know these are some sick people that I am dealing with. I thank you all for (once again) helping me to see the possible outcomes.

If I do show it to him, I would pretend to believe him when he says it's not true (as we all know he will). This, I think will make him feel more comfortable. Right now, I have no idea what to do so keep the advice coming! Whatever I decide, I'm not dealing with it until next week anyway. We have some family stuff planned this weekend and I continue to work hard on Plan A, especially the carrot part. Since I'm so confused about what my next step should be, then this can wait a few days (especially since my next step might be to take no action).

Right now I'm leaning towards responding to the email as someone had suggested and say that I don't believe them and if they have pictures then they should go ahead and send them. I do wish I could get my hands on those pictures. But, if WH is somehow involved, that might not be the right thing to do. I hope the next few days will give me some clarity and help me know what is the right thing for me to do.

More good news for me is that my last OB appointment included a screening for STDs which is standard so I didn't have to request that. Everything came back fine and since there hasn't been any WH/OW contact, that is one less thing I have to worry about for now.

Thanks again for all the great advice. I seriously don't know what I would do if I coudln't come here for help. You all do wonderful work here and I am so thankful I found you.

Yeah, it might make him more comfortable, but it may also have the undesired effect of making him more careful. Until now he's believed there's absolutely no hint of suspicion on your part and no reason for you to be suspicious. That'll change when he hears about the email, regardless of whether or not you can make him believe you aren't taking it seriously.

He's been careful so far - if he hears about the email he's going to be doubly careful and avoid an 'enemy' (the friend). And I believe he'd have a good idea who that friend is.

Think about it, Anne, and make your decision. You can't unring the bell, so be sure about what you want to do. I'm glad you're taking a few days to think about it.

I don't even know why I'm cautioning you to not be hasty - you're one of the most patient posters I've seen on here.

Thank you! I'm not enjoying this pregnancy as I had hoped but I do try to remember how blessed I am to be having a baby.

MaritalBliss, that's funny that you comment no my patience since that is something that has frustrated others about me. From the intel that I have gathered, it seems that I'm going to have no choice but to be patient. I have pinpointed the times that WH has seen OW since mid-summer. He saw her July 17, November 5 and March 19. In between those times, their contact is very limited and usually pertains to business. From what I can tell, he seems to hook up with her once every three months or so. That is going to make it more challenging to get evidence but my patience will come in handy. I'm just thankful that I'm starting to have good days again. There was a time when I didn't think that was possible. I know not every day will be a good one but I'm thankful for the ones that are!

I know many of you have mentioned how it's not healthy or reasonable to be in Plan A for more than a few weeks. It seems like I don't have much of a choice about that since I am unwilling to confront with what I have. To help cope, I am seeing a therapist and she has been amazing in helping me to figure out ways to deal with this stress while trying to get the information that I need. At my last appointment we talked a lot about how it might be months before I have another opportunity to find out what's really going on. I don't like it but it's out of my control. I can't make something happen but have to wait until it does.

Do WS tend to tell lies about many things and not just those things related to their affairs? My WH told me he is going to play golf tomorrow morning with Dirtbag Friend when he is really going gambling with Dirtbag. I don't care about gambling so I don't know why the lies unless he is just getting caught up in this lifestyle. Maybe he gets a kick out of deceiving me? He also mentioned to Dirtbag that he hasn't talked to OW (Butter) in a while and needs to call her so she doesn't think he forgot about her. Then he made a joke about how they should go to a bar and "p*ss where they eat". It's a bar close to our house in our town so that means they would be taking some risks. Sounds like he likes that.

Frustrated that none of this is proof but hopefully I can get that soon. While I'm not happy to find out he lied about where he's going tomorrow, it doesn't help me since he's not seeing OW. Catching him in a lie about where he was with his friend does me no good.

Anyone had any luck with cell phone spy software (not for an Iphone)?

WH is out gambling today with Dirtbag Friend. He told me he was playing golf. I don't know why he would lie about that since I don't have a problem with gambling. Maybe he just finds it thrilling and exciting to lie to me and get away with things. He did tell Dirtbag that he should call OW. Hopefully he will do that this week. He'll probably call her from work and not his car but he might talk about it in his car with Dirtbag (most of his conversations with Dirtbag are in the car).

Still mulling over what to do about the anonymous email I got (the one that said "your husband f*cked OW i have pictures of them together"). Someone had suggested I reply and ask for the pictures. I'm thinking of doing that. It's hard to know what to do.

Wish me luck that I can get some more positive proof so that I can move forward. As always, thanks for listening.

If you don't have cell phone spy software you could try this until you have it:

1. First get your husbands cell phone and program it to forward all calls to your own phone number after 15 or 20 seconds.
2. You then program your own simcard to forward any calls to husbands number directly.
3. Then take your own cell phone and your husbands and switch sim-cards.

This will give you the opportunity to screen all his calls before he sees them.
You can autoforward all his text messages to your own number (which is in his cell phone) if you want, or you can read them first and then put them through.
Please remember to program the phone to hide the number when calling. And it might be a good idea to also switch the voicemail box number if your phone company/cell phone allows for it, he won't notice anything off if all unanswered calls (he gets on your sim) are forwarded to his mailbox.

It may take some thinking but if you know your way around his cell phone it is certainly worth the trouble.

Also, because it is your own sim-card, you can add a tracking function to it via internet. They will always send you a notice to your phone after you sign up, but once you have it, you can trace where the phone with this sim is via the internet.

Hope this helps.

(legal notice: laws in your state might require you to inform your husband of this in advance)

I suggest do it, but make the response brief, and go entirely silent if they try to extort money or favours from you.

Now THAT was a priceless comment.

Larry

Another idea on the email response that would allow you to play dumb but might prompt the sender to get those pics to you:

Hello Which-Ever "Friend" of Husband's you are:

I'm very familiar with the games you all play with each other and the pranks you pull. I don't agree with them. Please leave me out of the loop when you pull nasty tricks on my husband. I am sure he leaves your wife out of whatever stunts he pulls as he is too honorable to go that low with a prank.

I know this is a prank because if you'd had pictures and were really concerned with me, you would have sent them.

Thank You.

I did respond to the "your husband" email saying that I don't believe them and if they have pictures why not just send them? We'll see if that gets any response. WH's friend may not be mad at him anymore but who knows? I am getting frustrated. I would like to catch him doing more than telling me lies about golf/gambling with Dirtbag Friend. It's just another red flag that makes me certain I can't trust him yet doesn't offer enough proof for confrontation.

Question for Happy Heart - First, thanks for that suggestion. I had no idea you could do something like that. If I were to do what you suggested, would he no longer get his voicemails? That could be a big problem since he uses his cell for business so much. I'm just trying to imagine any potential pitfalls if I were to do that. I'd really like to just get the cell phone spy software but those seem to be geared towards Iphones and touch phones and he has a regular cell.

I was one poster who initially advised you to not respond to the email; however, because it appears that contact between H & AP may be haphazard, I'm starting to think it might be a good idea to respond to the email. I'm afraid it'll make you crazy if you have to remain in suspended animation like you have been.

You're right, contact between WH and OW is haphazard and they go months without seeing one another. Weeks at a time without contact at all. I did respond to that email but I'm afraid I may never hear back. I have a feeling they were just trying to cause trouble for my WH and had no intention of ever sending me the pictures. If they did, why not just send them in the first place? This is driving me crazy but I have to find a way to cope. Nothing good will come if I confront too early and without sufficent evidence. I've caught him in several lies over the last few weeks but none of them pertain to OW. It really doesn't do me much good to catch him in lies about his Dirtbag Friends. If I confront him about that, he will just get better at covering up situation with OW.

The part that bothers me the most is that I think he has justified this in his mind as not being an affair and therefore, it's okay. Has anyone else ever been in a situation like this?

It's more common than you can imagine. It's one of the main ways adulterers are able to conduct their affairs. (As in "We're Just Friends")

Your H is displaying IB with his white lies about where he is and what he's doing. He also may be compartmentalizing the A - keeping it 'at the office'.

The emailer was testing the waters. This tells me it's someone you know well.

What is IB? I can't find it anywhere. I'm 100% certain he's compartmentalizing the A. And I'm also certain he doesn't think it even counts as an A since it's so sporadic seems to be just about sex. I think at some point, he decided his friends were having so much fun and not getting caught that he decided to join their games. Or maybe he's been doing this all these years. I don't even know what to think anymore.

The worst part is that I'm almost hoping he has a meeting with OW soon so I can get some proof. That makes me feel sick.

I found out today that my mother has breast cancer. When it rains, it pours.

Independent Behavior.

If you DO get a response back from the emailer, make sure you are in a safe place before you open it and read it. Have a friend come over, or something.

I finally got something from the VAR but I don't know if it's enough so I thought I would run it past you guys. WH sent an email inviting OW to golf with him and Dirtbag Friend. Dirtbag called WH last night and it was brought up on the phone. WH did say about OW that "I could never date her because she talks to much." A bit later in the conversation they were talking about how she's not married (something was said on Facebook) and doesn't want to get married. They they started talking about her meeting them for golf and this is what followed (the ... represent times when WH is not talking but listening - keep in mind, it seems like he's talking to OW but this is really a conversation between him and Dirtbag Friend):

"Tell her to bring her little toys, Man...Everyone gets friends with benefits on her, take turns on her. Make her happy. Listen, Honey, you make me happy, I'll make you happy, that's all we need. What more do you want? Isn't that what life's all about? Come on, I'll make you happy, give you a little tickle-tickle. That's all...Exactly. I won't embarass you. You take me back, you give me a little hand job under the table, that's all I ask for. In return, I'll go down on you. You know, you seem like a clean lady. What the heck, you know? Throw me a little bone every once in awhile and that's all. I'll take you for dinner, you don't tell my wife, that's all. See, that's how things work. You don't really want to get married." And then laughter following by a little chat about how she lives in a townhome and then they change the subject.

So, what do you all think? I think the pro of confronting now is that I get it over with. The con is that I'm not sure this is enough to go forward with. I'm inclined to wait since I'm certain there will be more conversations because they plan to golf with her in the next few weeks.

Ugh. You poor woman. The above would be plenty for me to know your WH is not a man I want to be married to...but I guess that is not very marriage builderish.

I do have a question though....It sounds like your WH is telling DB how to handle a woman....?? Are they sharing her? Are they talking about your WHs OW or DB's OW.

I guess you never heard anything else back from that anonymous email?

What are your intentions with this marriage? Do you think it is salvagable?

Edit: Upon further reading....are you thinking your WH hasn't actually been WITH her? I think that is how he would spin it....that it is DB friend's OW---not your WHs....

If you can stand it, I probably would not reveal your source yet or even confront at all. I kept my kelogger in place for approximately 9 weeks...it paid off. I got more and more info. So much that I know he is bad enough that I will NEVER take him back. I had to have that for ME.

So when you say you want to 'move forward'....does that mean divorce? Is that what you want?

Sigh. Oh, Anne. It's something, but it's not enough, IMO. I re-read it and can see where your H can spin it to be all about the POS friend's exploits.

Can you hang on a while longer?

I would sit tight.

Your H is clearly having a "pretend" conversation.
It's not anything he's said or plans to say to any OW **that we know of**.

Right now it's nothing more than a big laugh about OW and her lack of morals.

KEEP THE RECORDING just in case it proves useful in the future, but right now I wouldn't give it any more credence than if you were to hear your WH impersonating a prostitute and saying "Me so horney... me love you long time!" or similar. It's an impersonation and a caricature, nothing more. That we know of.

Thanks for confirming what I already knew. He will twist this and turn it into a big joke and then put it on me and say "I can't believe you don't trust me.". As many of you know, I have more than enough patience necessary to wait this out. The golf date is supposed to take place in a few weeks so there will be more emails and phone calls.

The way he was talking was sort of summing up his attitude towards OW. He was sort of telling DB how it is with her. And he got a good laugh out of it too.

I should get access to his computer in the next week which will allow me to get a keylogger on his laptop. Until then, the emails will have to do. Has anyone ever used club mz e-spy? I'm thinking of buying it. It's cheap so I won't be out a lot of money if it doesn't work. It's supposed to work on all phones (he does not have a touch or iphone).

To answer a few of the questions Smiling asked, here goes:

I don't think they are sharing her YET. WH was definitely there first and I know that DB has a thing for her now and wants to [censored] her (his words, not mine). You'll note that WH made a reference to "Everyone gets friends with benefits on her, take turns on her." This golf date seems designed to put the wheels in motion for DB to get his "turn".

No, I did not hear from back from the anonymous email and I don't think I will. I do know from reading WH's email that pictures of him and OW exist but I doubt I will ever get my hands on them.

As for my intentions with this marriage, I just don't know. The fact that I'm 11 weeks pregnant changes a lot of things for me. If I wasn't, I would be leaning strongly towards walking away. That still might happen but it's hard to think clearly right now between this situation with WH/OW/DB, the fact that I'm pregnant and the fact that I recently learned that my mom has breast cancer.

I do believe that WH has had sexual contact with her. He may not have had actual intercourse with her which makes some sense as he would think it's not really cheating (ala Clinton-Lewinsky). I'm certain that there have been sexual acts such as hand jobs and oral sex. Although I'm not ruling out the fact that he very well may have had intercourse with her. And it is WH's OW but DB is trying to get with her too. But he would spin it that it's only DB who wants to get with her and he's trying to help. Maybe they are planning to get her drunk and talk her into a threesome.

I am going to stay quiet and try to act normal. When I say I want to 'move forward' that means one way or another. Either we get counseling and start a very long process of rebuilding our marriage or we get a divorce. I have no idea which one it's going to be.

anne505,

I haven't read this entire thread so plz forgive if this is a repeat but you mention again and again how much Dirtbag cheats on wife. Have you ever thought of informing his wife?? I guess you have no proof right?

The thing is overall, these guys are a-holes. Sorry to be so insulting to your husband but he lies about small stuff and has an attitude of contempt for women as does his whole crew. Do you have to socialize with these people too? I hope you take very precaution since he is a lawyer but you deserve basic respect and I don't see it coming in your marriage. Years of that alone would be enough to divorce. Are you even thinking of it or do you feel like as long as he isn't cheating its an ok relationship?

As much as we all want to see marriage building here, the long road of recovery that you spoke about is only really beneficial IF you have a spouse that has basic respect for you. I don't see that happening with him.

I do have proof that DB cheats on his wife. But if I go to her, I will not be able to get proof of WH's involvement with OW.

I do not socialize with these people. I just found out that this is what WH is really like about a month ago. Before then, I thought we were happy and that I was married to an amazing man. I knew that his friends were a bit questionable but he had always been honest with me about the things they did and how he wasn't like that. I feel stupid now for believing him.

I have been considering a divorce. I know that it is just as likely as us staying together. I only wish I had known these things before I got pregnant. And no, it wasn't an accident. It was very much planned and he was thrilled when I told him.

My best friend became pregnant--planned no less--during her WH's affair. It was VERY difficult for her to leave...but she did it. I cannot stomach what I am reading about your WH....it makes me physically ill.....

Just remember.....just because you are pregnant...doesn't mean you are trapped.

DB's wife is not your prime obejective here. YOUR LIFE is. Keep the intel and inform her when/if you can...YOUR life is most important now.

You're right. I think about it every day. It's come to the point that I feel the need to know and have proof of exactly what is going on for legal purposes as much as anything else.

I am not doing anything to let DB's wife know but I am keeping a file to give to her when the time is right. I do know that she suspects that he has cheated on her, has caught him in many lies and has come very close to catching him. She isn't going about her snooping in the right way and she lets him know that she suspects something. I can help her but not until I have what I need which is harder to get becuase WH has a much busier job, not to mention a wife and kids, to deal with. Dirtbag doesn't have children and has a job that requires little thought or skill. He's not very sharp. WH is the smart one which is why he's harder to catch. But I am more patient and smarter than Dirtbag's wife. I will find out what's going on. And then their house of cards will come tumbling down.

Interesting that your WH has this man for a friend...

Were they friends from their school years?

You do have an amazing amount of patience....it will pay off I feel sure.

My WH (now X) signed over custody due to the amount of evidence I was willing to use against him. And the fact that your WH's OW is a potential client leads me to believe he will cooperate with you in a divorce to avoid the embarrasment of having his true character publically revealed.

Here's a thought,

Is there any way you can follow him on this "golf outing?"

If you were to catch him at a restaurant with here, especially if he lied about where he was going or who he was going with, wouldn't that be enough for a confrontation?

Or even better, stake out her townhouse and see if they show up there?

You have known him for 19 years and this is the first you've seen of his dark side. Considering the children and the one on the way, I suggest you gather your strength to consider divorce if needed, but keep it in your back pocket. It might be that his idea of being a Man's Man includes the nasty behavior when you aren't looking. That can be changed if he wants to change it once you confront him. He apparently thinks what he is doing is OK, but there are a lot of betrayers represented here who thought it was OK until they saw the damage done.

I think you are doing great at remaining patient while you gather more evidence. If this marriage can be saved (depending on his deep down character), you certainly have what it takes to create another MB success story. You also have what it takes to do well if you have to go to Plan D. You are awesome!

I'd like to whack some sense into your husband. I suspect he knows how great he has it with you . . . what man wouldn't know that? Perhaps his big man brain excuses his little man brain by telling him that what the wifey doesn't know can't hurt.

You know, I never understood this friendship before but now I'm starting to. They have been friends for 25 years. Dirtbag started cheating on his wife after he almost died from kidney failure and lots a lot of weight. This was 3 or 4 years ago. He started cheating during the summer of 2008. Interesting reaction to almost dying, huh?

I have been trying to think of a way to do this. The thing is that they are actually planning to golf. But, it's the after part I'm worried about. The problem with staking out her townhouse is that I will have my kids with me. There is no one I can get to watch them on a Sunday morning (which is when they are going).

Wow, thank you for that post...you made my day! It's so good to know that there are still decent people in the world! I guess I will have to see how things go once I confront him. Your advice is exactly what my therapist told me this morning when I was there (except for the whack part I am so thankful for all the wonderful advice and support I get here. I don't know if I could have made it this far without it!

Okay......Barf. Take turns? Clean lady? You want to take a shower after reading that.

Sorry you are going through this anne. I think it's all coming to a head now and you may not have to wait too much longer to get the smoking gun. I sure hope so.

How is he at home at night? Any changes?

Chrisner - yes, it makes me sick. At least I think I'm finally going to get to the end of this. Hopefully this little golf date will spark some good emails and conversations on the VAR. The only problem with the VAR is it does pick up a lot of background noise so it's a bit unreliable. But, it's got me some good info so far so I will keep at it.

I wonder how OW would feel if she knew how they talked about her. I don't feel bad though. She deserves what she gets.

At home, he acts like a loving husband and wonderful father. He makes me sick.

My friend...the one who finally left her WH when she was pregnant....she said the same thing about him. He was always so loving and kind to her--I think these type of Waywards are particularly sinister. Creepy.

SmilingWoman - did your friend have other children with her WH? This is child #3 for me so I'm feeilng very overwhelmed by all of this. If I had known about any of this, I never would have got pregnant. Of course I look back now and see the red flags that should have put me on notice. But, hindsight is 20/20.

Creepy and sinister about covers it. He's so nice and normal that I often find myself reading the emails and listening to those coverstaions just to remind myself that this is really happening.

Well it does not appear that he has a romantic/addiction type adultery going with Butter Butt. Perhaps good in the short term but tough for the long haul.

He is going to be totally blindsided when you have everything to confront. I think we may have a begger/pleader on our hands when the feces finally impacts the rotary oscillator. He does not want this to destroy his marriage. And yet he has poured gasoline all over it and is playing with matches. Waywards seem to have a teenage view of invincibility with their risk taking.

How he reacts will say a lot about your chances.

He is going to have to address his whole entitled wayward mindset if you even chose to recover the marriage.

The toxic friends will have to go for life. That can�t be negotiable.

He will have to make a lot of changes.

Oh I would make sure she finds out how exactly how they speak of her when exposure comes. Every good skank-ho deserves feedback on her performances and techniques. Bet she would be real pleased to know she�s a �butter face.�


I would be more worried about what she may be giving seeing as she is everyone�s friend with benefits. Oh wait, that�s right. She seems like a clean lady.


So anne, I am curious. If you got irrefutable proof today, what are you going to do with it? What�s your Pearl Harbor plan of attack?

My friend did not have other children. It was their first pregnancy. They were married about 14 years total...and he was cheating on her during the last 4 years for sure---who really knows how much longer. He kept telling her over and over that he wouldn't do it again. And it wasn't just one affair...several different women. She wanted so bad to believe he was going to stop. So when he told her he wanted a baby with her after 12 or so years of marriage she took that to be a good sign that he was done cheating. Later when she was pregnant and found out he was still seeing his latest she asked him WHY he wanted a baby if he wouldn't/couldn't give up his girlfriend. He said he thought it would give him the strength to stop seeing the OW if he had a baby. Crazy. He eventually married that last OW---but he didn't stop cheating. He cheated on her too---but she stayed with him and they've been married for at least 10 years---and have a child together.

I loved him like a brother---but his betrayal was so long and broad that I will NEVER trust a single word out of his mouth again.



I did this same thing! It has been almost a year since I collected my first keylogger info. I would sometimes just read over them to remind myself of how sick he is. I haven't looked at them in a long time though. My WH was also living a VERY double life. Much of what I know now about him just freaks me out sometimes....when I think of how I lived with him all those years thinking he was one kind of person when he was really another kind.

Here is an example that I was thinking of just yesterday. He had sex with my 19 year old cousin many times (he was 37 at the time). My cousins friend told me about it. My cousin is a total nut case and everyone in my life (her parents, my parents, all our close friends) felt that it was entirely possible she just made it up. WH denied it happened, cousin denied it happened and she also denied ever telling her friend that it did. I chose to believe that it didn't happen. The only thing I knew FOR SURE was that the friend wasn't lying about what was told to her. So life goes on. 7 long years pass before I got proof that it DID happen. During that 7 years many many times when WH would hear the friend's name he would go off on her for telling a lie about him and my cousin. AND he would casually ask how my cousin was doing when he heard her name or her parents name. So not only did he continue to LIE and cover up what he did, he also continued to slander the only Truthteller in the know. That boggles my mind.

Also, during this time period right after he had sex with her, I really really wanted another baby. Suddenly, WH wouldn't come near me without a condom. He claimed it was because he didn't want another baby....but I now believe he was worried he had contracted something from my cousin. It was about 4 years before he stopped using them. By then it was too late and I couldn't get pregnant.

Anyway, sorry for the T/J!!!!!! I get going sometimes and can't stop.


I'm anxious to hear if you have more info. You are doing a great job.

Yes, I know the friends must go. I can't live like this.

I will be letting ButterFace know exactly what they have said about her when the time comes. She deserves to know and I deserve to get the chance to tell her.

As for my plan of attack, I really don't know. The more I find out, the more it changes. I know I need to focus on remaining calm and not revealing exactly what I know and how I know it. But I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed as this thing develops. Someone on here said to just say "I know" and leave it at that and watch him scramble. Thoughts?

Smiling Woman - thank you for sharing both the story about your friend and also your own experience. It helps to know I'm not alone in this. I can't believe what these WS are capable of. It boggles my mind.

WH has been busy at work for the past few days and has a deadline for something which is today. Maybe once that is done, he can get back to his emails and phone calls which were both fairly quiet yesterday so I didn't get anything. I keep reminding myself that I won't get new evidence every day but it's so disappointing when that happens. I'm hopeful that this upcoming golf date will get me what I need. If only I knew about this over a month ago. I would have everything I need if I put the VAR in his car before the night they went out. She was in his car that night. Although I'm pretty sure that whatever sex too place was in her office. I could be wrong though. This time, it will probably take place at her house (after golf) but I'm hoping the conversation in the car will be revealing.

I'm going to start gathering our financial records and I am thinking of speaking with an attorney to see what my options are. I don't know what my plan is but I'm keeping an open mind and want to prepare myself for the worst possible scenario. I have come to the point in this where I realize that there worse things than going through a divorce. I would hate to see that happen to my kids but our current situation is very unhealthy too.

I'm curious, did anyone ask their WS to move out? Wondering how that went for everyone.

There are worse things than a divorce....for sure.

I was a SAHM and homeschooling at that. Still am. But anyway, I asked my WH to move out...told him he had to. I knew he wouldnt' without a court order and sure enough he let it go to within one hour of the temporary hearing before he signed off on a separation agreement that he and I put together for visitation and support.

Also, Scotland's story details how she packed her WHs bags and sent him on his way. She is in a very dark plan B and has been for months.

My WH had the nerve to suggest that I take ds and move into a rent house my parents own. I said, 'you must be out of your mind. You want me and ds to move into a tiny little rent house while you stay in our beautiful 2300 sf home? I am not going to do that and you will find that the judge won't think I should have to do that either.'

You are a SAHM mom right? You have 2 small children and one on the way? Your WH is so going to come out on the losing end on this. Talk to an attorney and get your ducks in a row. If your WH is the type who won't leave without a court order you need to be prepared to do what you have to do. I sure wouldn't leave your home though if I were you.

I am a SAHM which is something I dearly LOVE and I hate the thought of giving it up. Which is becoming one of the very few reasons I can think of to even attempt recovery. My kids are 5 and 9 and will both be in full-time school next year. The baby is due early November. I have been researching divorce laws in my state. I can file on grounds of adultery. I also know not to leave my house so that I won't be viewed as he abandoner by the courts. There is some debt which I would get stuck with half of but it might end up being a small price to pay. I haven't completely ruled out recover but i just don't know if it's possible and want to prepare myself for what might yet come.

Any advice on how to confront him, given my recent turn of events?

Anne,

Here's just one man's take for what it's worth. You have been sitting on this whole situation too long and really letting it eat you up inside. It's clear you are a very strong woman and have held it together better than most could under the circumstances, but it's getting to you now.

From everything you've relayed here, it sounds like your husband is a pretty good man who has gotten sucked into an adulterous lifestyle by his friend. At some points when you're describing the emails and conversations with his friend, your husband actually sounds somewhat reluctant.

I'd bet money that once you confront your husband with even the evidence you have now, he'll come clean and beg for forgiveness. Then you will hold the key to this all and can introduce him to MB's and all the concepts here, and he should be receptive. I bet he'll dump butterface like sack of bricks and little problem maintaining no contact. Sounds to me like he's not too infatuated with her anyway.

But, sitting on this is eating away at the love you have for your husband. You're already considering divorce and haven't even confronted him about the affair yet.

You don't know what some of us on this board wouldn't give for a repentant spouse, and I bet that's exactly what will happen with your husband. Take advantage of that opportunity instead of planning for divorce.

Interesting view of it. My view is totally different. I see him as a man living a double life---and the hidden life is just about as scummy as I've seen on these boards. I am hoping you are right and I am wrong.

Anne It is doubtful much will change for you in the immediate future if you do decide to divorce him. So don't worry too much about that.

I put up with a lot of junk out of my now Xh because I wanted to keep my family together and I wanted to continue being a SAHM and homeschool our son. However, once I found out he was a cheater and basically had been living a lie for years...Iknew I could never go back to that.

Btw, I filed for divorce before I ever confronted my WH. I didn't want to hear his explanations and excuses. I just knew i had reached my limit with him.

YMMV.

Schtoop - Thank you for your input. It's very valuable to me to hear about this from a man's perspective. You'r right, this is eating me up inside. But I am coping because I know that I need more time to get solid evidence. Confronting too early would be a huge mistake.

As for my husband being a good man, I'm not so sure about that anymore. When it comes down to it, I really don't think he would give up his friendship with Dirtbag in order to save our marriage. He might pretend to do it and then carry on behind my back, much like he is doing now. He's found how easy it is for him to lie to me and get away with it. Once he knows I'm on to him, he will find better ways to lie to me. I don't agree that he sounds reluctant in the conversations and emails. To me, he sounds very calculating and is acting as if he knows exactly what he's doing and is enjoying the hell out of it. Which I'm sure he is.

I have no idea what will happen once I confront him. Well, that's not true. I do know that, at first, he will lie to me, swear it's not true and then try to find out what I know and how I know it. I really don't see the begging for forgiveness scenario happening but I do know that anything is possible. I do agree that he doesn't seem too infatuated. He likes what he gets from ButterFace and doesn't care to deal with her too much otherwise. She's there when he wants her and that's probably all that matters to him.

Right now, sitting on this is my best option. What is truly eating at my love for him is my discovery of what he's been doing behind my back and his utter lack of respect for me and our marriage. Considering divorce is my way of preparing for all possible options. Given my circumstances, I would have to say it's one of the possible outcomes. I simply want to be prepared.

That being said, if WH were to tell me he wants to stay together and work on our marriage, I would give him that chance as long as he could convince me he was sincere. Given his track record of lies, that would take a lot of convincing on his part.

I really don't know what my future holds. Right now I'm doing what I need to do. I really do thank you for giving your thoughts on this. I appreicate it and welcome anything else you have to say. I love this board because there are so many who are willing to share their experiences in order to help me. Every time I come here, I see something from a new perpsective.

WH is planning some golf with Dirtbag on May 2 which is only a week away. Unsure if it's the golf date with ButterFace or if this is one of those golf dates where they really go gambling but just say they are going to play golf. They made plans to talk more early next week about. The only problem will be that they take Dirtbag's car when they go out so I can't get to those conversations. Keep your fingers crossed that I can get what I need from hearing them make their plans next week.

Thanks again!

SmilingWoman - I am inclined to agree with you. He is living a double life and really seems to get off on it. I too hope that Schtoop is right though.

I'm glad someone understands how important being a SAHM is to me. It's not important enough for me to put up with what's been going on though. I deserve better!

Thanks, as always, for the words of advice. You've been so very helpful to me!

This is EXACTLY the way I read him from your postings of his conversation.


Again, just the way I imagine it....and it IS the way it played out for me. I guess I am just seeing the similarities to your WH and mine.



This was my problem. When someone reveals themself to be SUCH a liar...how can you EVER trust them again. Especially when he isn't lying because of some 'fog' he is in...he clearly isn't into this OW the way many WSs are this board seem to be. He is just living a double life.
[/quote]

Anything new Ann?

You've been on my mind all weekend.

Thanks SmilingWoman. It sounds like we have much in common. There is nothing new. It looks like his golf date isn't going to happen because ButterFace will be out of town. He and Dirtbag are planning to "golf" Sunday which means he is going gambling with him and telling me he's golfing. It's just not helpful to catch him in lies with his friend.

He may have found the VAR in his car. I have it attached to the passenger seat with velcro. When I went to switch them out, I noticed he had cleaned out underneath there. I'll just have to wait and see if that happened or not. I would hate it if something like this happened before I got what I need.

It's offical. It appears that he's found the VAR. He didn't confront me about it but that doesn't surprise me since it wouldn't be at all like him to do so. Instead, he has stopped talking on his phone in the car. He has a long commute and makes many phone calls in his car. Since the other day when I thougth he found it, the only calls he has made in his car have been to me. I can't be 100% certain he found it but I am 99% sure.

This is a bad turn of events for me. He has never spoken that freely on emails (plus this will clue him into the fact that I am reading emails) and I really felt that the VAR was my only hope for proof. Right now I'm at a loss as to what to do next. Any suggestions?

Wait him out and see what he says. He's going to start wondering how long it's been there and what you've heard. This will become a mind game. Do not let on about anything.

He might not be clued in that you you are reading his emails. If he thinks it is possible he will change his password....but you have been cool as a cucumber so far. I'm really impressed.

How do you feel Anne? I mean....in your mind is there enough evidence for YOU to KNOW he is a cheater and moral off? True you may not have enough evidence to prove it to a judge, (and I'm not sure you woud need that anyway), but you have plenty in my opinion to know this man is not what he presents himself to be to you.

Although I know that he is not the man I thought he was, I need to know more and find out exactly what is going on. I'm very afraid that if I confront without enough evidence, that I will let him talk his way out of it because I really don't want to believe what's been going on. He and his friends are such good liars that I need to be equipped with as much knowledge and evidence as possible. I could be my own worst enemy during a confrontation and I'm trying not to let that happen. Two of his friends have talked their way out of situations like this. I don't want that to happen to me.

I'm going to take MaritalBliss' advice and keep quiet. He won't say anything - he's a total ostrich about stuff like this. I'll just keep my cool and continue to snoop. It's frustrating though. I was so close to getting something from the conversations in the car. The fact that they have stopped does not bode well for me.

Can you hire a PI?

Not enough cash for a PI. Plus, he sees OW so rarely that it's going to be difficult, not to mention costly, to go that route. OW is in Florida right now so the planned golf date won't happen until the end of May (WH and Dirtbag were trying to set it up for this weekend but they didn't realize she wouldn't be around so they are going gambling, um, I mean GOLFING instead). WH is busy with family stuff for the next several weekends so it's going to be awhile before he sees her again. In the meantime, he is telling me lies but not about her. I wouldn't want to waste my confrontation on his lies with Dirtbag. It's a catch-22 for sure. I have made it this long, I can last another several weeks or as long as it takes. This is my future I'm talking about so I am willing to do whatever it takes.

Anne, what about a GPS in the car this weekend? That way, you'd definitely catch him in a lie about golfing vs gambling.

Anne,


I agree with your approach to be very patient. A lie about golf vs. gambling is not going to get you anywhere. He may have cheated in the past, he may do it again but it doesn't seem like there is a current adultery. How is SF between you two?? Has there been any changes lately?? Has there been any changes in his mood or temper? I forgot, what was the outcome from the strange email offering you photos of him cheating?

BigPicture is right. That is not the lie I want to catch him in. I already have sufficient proof of those lies. As for current adultery, it doesn't seem like there is anything right now. SF between us for the past year or so has been really good. It tapered off a bit when I got pregnant due to morning sickness but I can't help that. The fact remains that he was doing this during times when SF was very good and long before I got pregnant. He seems to be one of those types who knows he can get away with it so he does it. He seems to like his cake and eat it too. As for the outcome from the email, I never heard back from our emailer. I think they were just playing a joke. Although I know those pictures exist, it's unlikely I will ever get my hands on them. If I didn't know about the lies, I would have no clue that anything was going on. He acts perfectly normal. I'm starting to wonder if he's some kind of sociopath because he is so GOOD at the lies!

Good news though. It looks like he may not know about the VAR. Although today's conversations don't provide me with proof, I did catch some things on there that he would never say if he knew I was listening. So I'm fairly hopefull that I will eventually get what I need. It won't come from email because part of today's converstaion was him advising Dirtbag Friend not to say too much in email because they are never truly deleted and can always be retrieved. Interesting, huh? That explains the lack of emails between WH and ButterFace who is also a lawyer.

He and Dirtbag are going "golfing" Sunday morning unless it rains in which case they will "Just say we are going bowling." Which means they are planning to gamble. Which does me no good because I am not interested in catching him in a lie with Dirtbag. But I've waited this long, I can wait a lot longer.

Anne,
While you are waiting, there is the possiblity that your Dday may never come. Joyous news BUT in the meantime what about your Plan A. Or at least doing your best to meet his ENs, avoid LBers and have a great marriage? If Dday does come look at what he will have experienced and will be sorely missing come B or D!?! Are you in the marriage or just waiting?

Big Picture - those are the very questions I struggle with every day. I have enough information to know that I'm not in the type of marriage that I want to be in. I am holding out hope that I will get more proof which will result in a confrontation. Of course, I realize that it's possible that might not happen in which case, I will need to move forward with what I have.

As for Plan A, that was not going so well for the past few weeks. I have not been good at consistently working on Plan A. Part of that is my unhappiness with my current situation and part of it was my worry and sickness caused by my pregnancy. I had a CVS test a few weeks ago and was waiting for the results. Honestly, during that time period, Plan A was not a priority to me. Now that I have the results and they are normal, I am more clear headed. The nice thing is that WH chalks up all my behavior during this time to morning sickness and being worried about the test results. Since we have our results now and they are good, I go back to my focus on Plan A and the carrot part. He has a lot to lose and I want to remind him of that. I guess I am both in the marriage but also waiting. Not the easiest balance to strike but it's what I feel I need to do.

Interesting conversation just took place between us. He told me he wants to go gambling tomorrow morning with Dirtbag (not bowling or golfing as he had intended to tell me). Now, this might be another lie because they have been talking about going to a strip club lately but not too many places are open on a Sunday morning. I no longer trust anything he says so who knows why he is telling me this. Also, he still says he went golfing the last time they went out gambling a few weeks ago. I can check his frequent flyer card for the casino they are going to and that will tell me if he goes tomorrow. If there is no activity on it, I will know they went somewhere else. They always take Dirtbag's car when they go out so the VAR does me no good.

How's this for getting back to Plan A with focus on the carrot. Today we have our son's birthday party. Tonight, while we are relaxing, I am going to tell him that we are having a little girl (we have two boys). Now if that isn't a carrot, then I don't know what is! Wish me luck!!!

I don't know how you keep doing it....you are doing great though. Congrats on your baby girl....that is awesome.

I could never understand some of the lies my now Xh told me.

Thanks SmilingWoman. You are always so nice to me and I appreciate it. I'm just doing what I have to do. It won't always be like this.

Anything of interest over the weekend? Your story resonates with me....so similar to my own...I always look for your updates first thing.

SmilingWoman - You are so sweet to check in! As frustrating as it is, nothing is happening right now. In fact, he told me the truth about going gambling as well as some of the activities of Dirtbag with his women (there are currently two of them right now). He even took my car so I heard him and Dirtbag talking first hand and it was all about Dirtbag's cheating and nothing about WH. He even told Dirtbag he needs to stop doing this. I don't think he had any idea I had a VAR in my own car.

However, OW was out of town and is back now. I suspect he will get the itch to see her as he does every few months or so. I'm not letting my guard down.

In the meantime, he's making tons of plans for the future of our family. He was thrilled to hear we are having a girl and was talking about buying a new house, baby names, calling her his little angel, etc. I'd say I'm setting up quite a carrot for him in my Plan A which I have refocused on over the course of the last few days. I don't think this is a man who wants to lose his family.

Just curious...is it normal for WH to go through a "truth telling phase" like this?

I'd be careful with this, Anne. It sounds almost too good to be true. Think about this: so, he's telling Dirtbag he needs to change his errant ways, right? Wouldn't Dirtbag's response be something akin to "hey, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?"

OTOH, maybe he had a 'come to Jesus' moment somewhere and has decided that the role of unfaithful H didn't suit him. I'd like to think so, but still...just sayin'...

MaritalBliss - I am being careful and remaining viligant about snooping. OW is back in town now so he might get interested in seeing her soon. He and Dirtbag were trying to get her to go out with them a few weeks ago. Now that she's back, I suspect that will be back on.

As for Dirtbag not saying anything about WH's activity with OW, I'm not really surprised. Dirtbag is a VERY selfish person who only thinks of himself. When they are talking about his situation, he is not going to change the subject and talk about someone else - not even to prove a point. So, him not bringing up WH's activity is more of an indication that he wanted to keep the focus on himself.

I just find it odd that WH is telling me the truth about stuff that he lied to me about only a few weeks ago (gambling, Dirtbag's OW's). I was wondering if anyone else has had this experience. Is he going through a "honeymoon" phase? Is this something that even happens? Not sure what to think!

I'm going to jump off-subject for a sec, here, Anne. Just wanted to ask you: have you ever told your H that his social activities w/Butterface make you uncomfortable? That you would prefer that he socialize with her only when you're around? I can't remember - does he know that you are aware of her?

No, I haven't told him that. Since it's been his position that she's a potential client, there is really no reason I should be uncomfortable (since he has no clue I know at least part of what has taken place). He does know that I know about her and that he takes her out every few months. He says he does that so he can get business from her.

"Business" from her...

I don't know how you're doing this but I admire you. And you're doing it the way you feel is best.

Good on your revitalized plan A. Just watch your love bank...remember, you are important here!!!

Okay...just trying to work all the angles, here. I just see you sort of running in place, through no fault of your own, and I don't want you to make yourself crazy. The truth may be that your H likes a little different flavor every now and then and sees himself as entitled to it, as long as you don't know about it. That philosophy is being bolstered by a wingnut buddy and a potential 'client' with poor boundaries. It sounds like a recipe for craziness, Anne. It sounds like a lifetime gig for him. And it sounds like a lifetime of you always having to track an unrepentent H around.

I'm just wondering if you can approach this differently. If you can approach him and try to rewrite some rules that the two of you have. The main one being, of course, that he doesn't have one-on-one outings with female clients.

That may sound to him like it's coming out of left field. And he may well say that he 'has' to do that for his job. But truth be told, I know a lot of attorneys, and the ones I know don't "have" to take female clients out drinking. They don't "have" to meet clients alone. (And he really hasn't been meeting her alone, now, has he?)

You have been putting yourself through a great deal of stress with little to show for your efforts. He's good, I'll give him that. That's why I'm wondering if you can change this pattern?

Just a thought...

My WX did this. I think it is part of the desire to stop what he was doing. I think he told me things in order to be sort of accountable to me. I've even heard him tell friends that any time a woman hit on him he would come home and tell me about it to keep himself in check. And he OFTEN told me details about friends or workmates of his who were doing terrible things. I think he also did it to bolster his believablity as the faithful husband.

The fact is though that even if he IS sorry about what he has done (and thus trying to be honest with you now) he has still done it a he needs to come clean. I can't get past DBs comment to your WH 'are you going to F her again.' Again. He did he it---I feel sure.

I can't remember...is there anyway you can install a keylogger on his computer? Or does he even get on a computer at home? That is where I got my best intel.

@MaritalBliss - Yes, I'm certain you are right about him liking something a little different every once in awhile and feeling entitled to it. I know he will not stop this behavior until forced to do so (and maybe not even then). Since I am finding this out only AFTER his last daliance with OW, I have not yet been able to catch him. So, yes, things are on hold but only because of timing. I am just waiting until his next episode and hope that I get what I need to catch him and confront him (via the VAR in his car). He goes out with OW about every 3 months or so. The last meeting was March 19 so he's due. I just have to bide my time. If she wasn't out of town, she might have been invited along with him and Dirtbag yesterday.

@SmilingWoman - Interesting that your XW did this too. I have wondered if he is starting to give me a dose of the truth in order to more easily set up his next meeting with OW (get me to trust him and feel comfortable about him going out with her). Yes, he does have to come clean with me about the past but that will only happen once I get proof and make him come clean about what he's been doing. The "you know you are going to try to F her again" comment tells me what I need to know but WH will twist it and lie about it since he answered that comment with a joke. If I can get a recording of him and OW talking, he will not be able to get around that. All in due time though.

I can install keylogger on his computer but it would likely be a waste of time and money. I have him on recording telling Dirtbag how you NEVER do anything on email or Facebook because it can be used against you. Funny how he specifically said that Facebook and email have ruined many marriages and that divorce lawyers love having this technology to use because it's so helpful. I guess he's thought about this a lot, huh? Anyway, he told Dirtbag to only talk to his OW on the phone - he stressed that. Which tells me that I'm not going to get much from email which makes the VAR my best, if not my only, hope in catching him.

The evidence I got via the keylogger was Instant Messaging chats between him and his OWs. You might be surprised the mistakes he will make even though he thinks he is so smart. You also never know what site he might visit that will aid you in other ways of catching him. And tell you LOTS about what he is up to. For instance, one of the sites my WH went to was the state child support site that lists the amount he would have to pay me.

Anyway, I definitely think you are being smart and I think trying to discuss changing his behavior at this point (as someone suggested asking him to not take OW out alone) will only clue him in to the fact that you are probably suspicious and he needs to be more careful.

Good point, SmilingWoman. It can't hurt and I might get something. Plus, that would cover me if he happens to get on to me and changes his password. I will do that the next chance I get.

Thanks for the kind words, as always. I have no intention of living this way long term and am just trying to proceed the best way under these difficult circumstances. Right now my focus is to work on Plan A, make our marriage/family life as appealing as possile and snoop, snoop, SNOOP!

Sounds like a good plan. Did you get anything new this week so far?

Not a thing! WH has been really busy at work. When he's busy or on a deadline, there is less activity. I know he talked to Dirtbag this week but he was in his office for that phone call. Otherwise, all is quiet.

I haven't installed keylogger because I haven't had access to the computer this week. I should be able to get to it next week.

Thanks for checking in - you are so sweet to ask how it's going. Nice to know that good people are thinking of me!

I'm considering confronting WH with the little evidence I have. It doesn't look like I'm going to get the proof I need any time soon - maybe in another month but maybe not even then. Any thoughts about this? It feels like it would be a big mistake but I don't know what to do anymore. Things are at a standstill and have been for well over a month. I've been so patient but I'm still no closer to actual proof than I was three weeks ago. I can't help but think that it would be better to work through my frustration and continue to gather evidence. I'm not looking for anyone to tell me what to do, rather trying to weigh the pros and cons before I make my decision.

I'm in the same boat right now. Some evidence but not quite enough to nail him to the wall. I feel like the little bit I have could be explained away, then he'll know I'm snooping and just be sneakier, all before I found something concrete...

I feel ya, sorry no advice...

This is strictly from where I sit, Anne, so take it for what it's worth: I suspect you may have a husband with a wayward/entitlement mentality. This chick is obviously not the "love of his life" or your sleuthing would have outed him by now. Rather, I worry that he is one of those spouses who just take the opportunity here and there, when it comes up, to have something a little different to add some spice to his life. Requisite 'barf' icon for that.

So, if that's the case, what do YOU think you can do? Can you ride this out, continuing to snoop, waiting to catch him? Whether it be this skank or some other? You've seen that that may take some time. And while that's going on, life is going on as well. Which may be good or bad: the good being that maybe he's sewn a few wild oats (more barf) and is settling down. Or, the bad thing: he liked sewing his oats and will do it again.

You've shown tremendous patience, and I admire you for that. I wouldn't blame you if you're ready to move to the next level, whatever that may be.

If it were me: I would lay out everything I've found so far and just let the chips fall where they may. I'll bet the farm that he denies denies denies, and spins the whole thing on his loser friend. So you probably won't get a confession. You will put him on notice that you're snooping, so come right out with that and tell him that you're keeping an eye on his activities.

Note that I said "if it were me". Because I don't think I could have had the patience that you've displayed and I probably would have sat him down with my limited intel by now, letting him know that I'm conscious of questionable activities on his part and that they make me uncomfortable.

You may never know what happened with Butter Face. But he will probably not have anything more to do with her.

Then maybe the two of you can work on strengthening your M.

Just my two bits.

I don't know Anne. You are in a tough spot. I suspect my own now XH was once just like your WH is now. With, like MaritalBliss says, the entitlement mentality...I now know that over the course of our 26 year marriage there were many many such incidents as the one you discovered with your XH and this OW. I think it is a character issue more than a wayward issue. Meaning....it is more that he lacks morals than that he became an alien by getting involved with an OW. I would hate for you to spend the next 10-15 years trying to be a good wife only to find out he never really changed and in fact got worse.

Your WH is already cautious about leaving a trail of any kind. I would definitely install a GOOD keylogger on his computer and see what you get there before I let him know I suspected anything. He will lock everything down so tight you will get nothing once he realizes you suspect him. Oh he may even behave for a while...but honestly....I am more inclined to believe he will not really change.

One thing you might do before confronting him is to write down your expectations moving forward. Can you live with the kind of man he has revealed himself to be? What do you need from him in order to feel safe in your marriage? I would start with insisting he get rid of DB and not take female clients out without you...and NEVER take BF out again EVER.. If you think through what you will need...you will probably know which things he will agree to and which things he won't. That will tell you a lot about how serious he will be about saving your marriage.

And if you do confront him....maybe don't reveal your source. Bluff him. Just look him dead in the eye and say, 'I know. Don't try to deny it because I KNOW you had sex with BF.'

I sure feel for ya. It is bad enough no matter what....but being pregnant adds so much pressure. (((hugs)))

Thanks for the great advice and the valid points. Looks like my decision was made for me. I read WH's emails for the day and he's invited OW (ButterFace) to lunch at 12:30 on Wednesday. She said that would be perfect because she "wanted to bounce something off of you (that's not appropriate for email)." Interesting, huh?

I'm not going to get my hopes up too high because they probably won't be in the same car together so the VAR won't do much good. My best hope is that he decides to talk to Dirtbag about this in the car on the way home. Since something is happening this week, there is no way I'm confronting.

Here is a thought (again, you all give such good insight): Should I make a point to call him during the time I know he's at lunch with her? You know, one of those "I love you and am thinking about you calls"? What do you think?

He's been talking about getting back on his diet so I'm going to make a point to ask him every day what he had for lunch and see what he says on Wednesday. That sounds reasonable, doesn't it?

I wouldn't. Although I did do crazy stuff when I knew and he didn't yet know I knew. I invited him to a special Sunday service....and he went!

And I had an old cell phone of his that I was getting all his incoming texts on. One day when he and OW (a now former friend's wife--the OW who first brought me to MB) were carrying on a suggestive conversation via text and I kept calling him at work--something I rarely did. I would be just as sweet and kind. I was doing it to blow his mind though. I don't recommend it and I don't really know what your motives are. You really need some evidence I think you should play this very low key until you get what you need.

I sure wish you could hire a PI to follow them.

Darn, Anne. If I lived near you I would go to that restaurant and spy on them for you! Is there anyone who can do that for you that he wouldn't recognize?

My thinking in calling is to see if he would even pick up the phone during that time. Also, I would like to put a scare into him and seeing my number pop up during lunch with ButterFace might do that. I'll leave it alone though and hope he gives her a ride or that he at least talks to Dirtbag about what happened over lunch. I am dying to know what she wants to "bounce off him" that is "inappropriate for email." What sucks is that I may never know!

The PI is not really an option because of money. As for having someone who doesn't know him follow him, that probably won't work either because they are meeting near her office which is an hour away from where we live. I don't know of anyone who could do that during the middle of the day. Boy Maritalbliss, I sure do wish you lived near me!!!

I'm going to be sure to have fresh batteries in the VAR. I hope the static I sometimes get doesn't drown out anything important. That happens sometimes when he is travelling at high speeds.

Thanks for your support ladies. Please pray I get something that will help me move forward (one way or another). I'm so ready for it.

I remember well how it feels waiting to see what my keylogger or VAR would tell me. I could barely wait for WH to get out of the house in the morning so I could check the previous evening's keylogger. It was a sickening feeling. But I knew I had to have the evidence to keep me from ever believing his lies and excuses and explanations again. The day I read a chat between my cousin and him that proved beyond a doubt they had slept together I nearly fell to my kneeds thanking God for the clarity He had given me.

Your patience is incredible. I will definitely pray for you to get what you need.

Okay, I've been gnawing on this. You know, Anne, what if you did this? "How was your day, honey?" :::natter natter natter:::
"Oh, that's great, WH. So what did you have for lunch?"

And then find out what he says. Maybe you can get an opening there. Maybe he'll lie. Maybe he'll tell the truth. Or at least give you something to start a dialogue with.

Because I'm starting to think the time has come to let all the cats out of the bag. I don't think this is healthy for you at all.

I don't think it is healthy either...but most people can't fathom the kind of liar that her WH appears to be. He reminds me so much of my WXH.

I'm going to ask him about lunch for sure. No matter what he says about lunch tomorrow, I will wait to see what the VAR says. I might not get anything since she won't be in the car with him but I need to check it out. Also, I am hoping that he will talk to Dirtbag about it sometime this week.

My situation is most certainly NOT healthy and I know that. I am in therapy and my mom knows so I do have a support system. Also I am drawing strength from my children, especially the one on the way. I am doing what I need to do to prepare for a future with or without WH. If nothing else, I need solid proof for divorce proceedings.

Thanks for the prayers and kinds thoughts. That is part of what is getting me through these hard times.

You say you get static on the VAR sometimes at high speeds? What about when/if the radio is loud? I guess if he's talking with the radio loud, he would be louder to, huh?

It will be good if you ask him about lunch and he lies. Carefully observe his body language when you know for a fact he is lying. It will be very helpful for you in the future.

I am curious if you have ever expressed concern about him taking women to lunch and dinner alone---or is it seen as a normal part of his business?

He turns the radio off when he talks in the car. I think the static comes from the wind and road noise you get at higher speeds.

I am going to watch closely when I ask about lunch. I know some of the signs that he's lying but there might be some I've missed.

I haven't expressed concern about him taking a woman out because I've always trusted him. He knows I trust him so it was never a big deal. Since he always referred to her as a client, I thought it was okay. Now I know better. He has used my trust against me which I gather is fairly common among waywards. Now I'm using the fact that he trusts me to aid in my snooping. What comes around, goes around, right?

Yes, true. On all counts.

I woke up thinking about you today. I am hopeful for some really good intel today. And I hope I don't come across as hoping he is proved a liar....but it seems easier to prove that someone IS a liar and a cheat than it is to prove they AREN'T a liar and a cheat.

Thanks SmilingWoman, your messages are always so nice. I know what you mean that you are not hoping he is a liar. We both know that he has already been proven a liar, I just need proof of the extent of his lies. I'm praying for good intel today. They should be having their "lunch" as we speak. Whatever happens, knowing has to be better than living like this (once I get past the inital shock anyway). I am ready to move forward. I keep trying to remind myself that I might not get the intel from today and might need to be even more patient than I've previously been. Hope for the best but prepare for the worse, right?

Thanks for checking in on me. You've been more helpful to me than you will ever know. It's nice to know that someone is thinking of me on this difficult day.

I'm still very worried about you, Anne.

You've been unbelievably strong sitting on this while trying to get confirmation, but I'm very worried about what the wondering and snooping is getting to you inside.

It sounds like a very dangerous place to me when you're actually HOPING to find proof of an affair. If that proof doesn't come, then the cycle of uncertainty continues. And, as long as that cycle continues your love bank balance is taking hit after hit.

We all agree that your husband has undoubtedly been engaging in inappropriate independent behavior, including lies, that is damaging to the marriage. And, what about the small possibility that the physical affair hasn't happened yet?

I'm more and more of the opinion that you need to lay all of your cards on the table and soon. I don't think bluffing is a good idea, if he's as good at lying and gaslighting as you think he will call you on it. Also, state what you know without giving up your sources.

He may be able to defend all of his actions individually, but together they paint a picture of a marriage that needs help and maybe you can parlay that into get him reading MB material such as HNHN.

((hugs)) anne.

I admire your calm approach. I hope you get what you need.

Schtoop - Thank you for your concern. I really do appreciate it. This is very difficult but I am coping. The bottom line is that I have been at this for two months and I am not going to blow it now. My husband is an excellent liar and must be confronted with as much proof as possible. Whether this confrontation will lead to recovery or to divorce court remains to be seen. Either way, I need more information. I simply can not proceed with what I have.

Lexxxy - Thank you. You have no idea what your words mean to me.

I checked his credit card statement and they went to lunch at a place very close to where she works so it's my guess they walked. I was hoping he would give her a ride but it doesn't look like it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he talked to her on the phone in his car. I've already decided that if I don't get what I need from today's lunch date, I will wait it out until I get my proof. That might not make sense to many of you but it's what I need to do.

I do understand and it makes sense.

If you are coping and can hang in there a little longer, then by all means do it.

Just try to keep up with meeting EN's and avoiding lovebusters while you wait. I know how hard that is when one is increasingly bitter and resentful inside.

Anne --

I totally understand your reasons. I've also had experience with that type of man who can weasel out of anything.
You can have drop dead proof -- and he would still try to come up with an angle.

Get what you need.

You certainly don't seem like you are on the edge of a breaking point. Like I said -- I greatly admire your calm strength!
Good for you!

Too many women jump too early with accusations, then find themselve gaslight for months. And then it is just THAT MUCH HARDER to get the proof you need.

Makes perfect sense to me. And I also don't feel like you are on the verge of breaking. It is amazing what you get used to living with this type of personality. I had to suffer through many many weeks of knowing without telling him what I knew and how I knew it.

My sister was visiting from out of state when I found out the last of the info that pushed me over the edge. I kept everything to myself for 10 days until she went home and then told my WH and my family what I'd found. That has been almost a year....the other day my mom told me that haunts her....that I held that in to not ruin my sister's visit....Honestly....that wasn't that difficult for me. I think it would have been more difficult to ruin my sister's visit. One just gets used to dealing with unfathomable realities.

One year later----I'm good. You will be too Anne.

You're right, I'm not on the verge of breaking. I know that my patience will pay off in the long run. This is just a nasty fact of my life now but one with which I must deal. I have to say that this is showing me a strength that I never knew I had. If I can make it through this, I can do anything.

I didn't get what I needed yesterday. I can add a few more lies to the mix but no actual proof. I sent him an email yesterday morning telling him I loved him. I do this sometimes so it doesn't look weird that I did it yesterday. I also sent an email about school stuff and referenced the school email when he got home. The minute I said "email", he jumped and said he didn't check email today which is a lie because I checked his email and I know he read them. Very interesting to see his reaction to that. Now he just sent me a response to my "I love you" email which says, "Just seeing this !!!!!! Thank you so much for being my wife. I am very happy to be having a lil girl with you and the boys! You know I love you guys more than life itself." Is this man a good liar or what?

When I asked what he had for lunch, he told me and I asked him where he went. He said he got a call from ButterFace and had lunch with her (another lie since I know he invited her to lunch on Monday). Does he really think I'm so stupid to think she just happened to call him on the one day he would be near her office (their offices are an hour away from each other). Jeez. Anyway, he told me she is thinking of changing jobs so this might be what she wanted to "bounce off of him". The job would have her working closer to home (also closer to our home). Also, he said he needs to get his presentation in for her business and I said "You haven't done that yet? I thought that's what that night a few months ago was all about and that it was already done." Then he talked about how busy everyone is. I knew he didn't do the presentation yet but I just wanted to see what he would say when I brought up the last time they went out. He acted nervous and slightly defensive.

Here is what I got from the VAR. As I feared, they walked to lunch so she was not in his car. Anyway, as he got out of the car, he said to himself "I'm gonna get lucky." When he got back in the car after lunch, he muttered her name and then something I couldn't make out under his breath. Now, as for whether or not he got lucky, I don't know. If he did, it had to be in the restaurant or bathroom (which is completely possible, I know). But, I don't think anything happened because he talked to Dirtbag Friend on the way home and told him he had lunch with her. I'm inclined to believe (but understand I could be wrong) that he would have mentioned anything that would have resulted in him "getting lucky" during lunch. What fun is cheating on your wife and getting some at lunch if you can't brag to your friends, right?

So, once again, a lot of drama over nothing. However, he did tell Dirtbag that he invited her out to gamble with them but she was not interested. She does want to go out with them but not to gamble. WH made a joke that she wants to get "double dutched".

Here is a rethorical question for you. What kind of woman thinks it's okay to hang out with two married men? Doesn't that raise any red flags for her? And why would you seek advice from your married "friend with benefits" about changing jobs. Shouldn't this be a red flag to WH that she thinks enough of him to get his opinion and maybe has feelings for him? Or am I overthinking this?

I'm doing okay today. Disappointed but determined. Thanks for all the support I get here. I know my situation is not exactly typical and kind of strange and I think you all for helping me to navigate my way through it.

Ok, weird affair stuff possibility aside (I'm not discounting it, just putting it aside for the moment), is it possible that he and Butterface could be in on some below-the-radar, even slightly illegal money making scheme? That might account for the "I'm gonna get lucky" statement. And not sharing it with dirtbag.

The whole situation stinks, Anne. And it's not right in the least. But I have been wondering if he's trying to do some business (and I'm not talking sex-related business) with this woman on the side...stuff his company would NOT like.

OurHouse - They are lawyers so I don't think it's even possible for them to do any business under the table. The phrase "friends with benefits" has come up about ButterFace as well as one of Dirtbag's women (there are several). That is what is going on here but I don't have enough to prove it. Thanks, though, for showing me a possible explanation. It's good to know what I might face when this comes out in the open. I'm sure WH will have an entire bag of lies ready to go when I confront.

I think Dirtbag said it best when he asked if I knew they were going out. WH said "Yes, she knows, I am trying to get business from her." Dirtbag said "I'm sure she does but does she know what kind of business. You know you are trying to [censored] her again." That tells me what I need to know although it doesn't give me proof.

I don't have much time to post but wanted to let you know I read your update and I'm thinking about you. Keep up the work.....I think you will eventually get proof. I do think you might need to consider getting a PI (even if you have to borrow the money)...but I would get one lined up and then the next time you know he is going to see her have him followed.

I will admit he is slippery....and showing more and more that he is a practiced liar. Sounds creepily familiar to me.

(((Anne)))

Thanks SmilingWoman. I know you speak from experience. I will get my proof...eventually. He can't be careful all the time. He is an expert liar, isn't he? His email to me made me sick. How do you go about finding a PI?

The more I listen to the way he said her name after he got back in the car, the more I think something did happen or maybe she teased him. It's the tone he said it with that is so disturbing. I wish I could figure out the few words he says after he says her name.

I'm getting a microphone for the VAR that is supposed to reduce background noise. I hope it helps. I'm sending a money order for the keylogger software (so glad you can do it that way). I should be able to get it on his computer Monday night.

One other thing...guess who was checking out the Ashley Madison Agency website earlier this week. Oh yeah...I'm getting keylogger!!!

Oh Anne...ewwwwwww

What a piece of slime! We all know AM is for one thing, and one thing only. I'd love to be able to see him explain that away!

Any way you can preserve that browser history for your files?

I'm afraid I already know how he will explain it. On the VAR, I heard him listening to talk radio last week on the way to work. They were talking about Ashley Madison and how it's become so popular, especially with newly married women. He will just say he heard them talk about it and looked at it out of curiosity.

I think I am starting to learn to stay one step ahead of him.

I would love to hear how he could explain away the "I'm going to get lucky" comment before meeting ButterFace. But, he's good and I'm sure he would find a way. Maybe he got lucky finding by getting a good parking spot in the city. Oh yeah, I'm learning his ways!

Good for you! My first response to your Ashley Madison comment was "Well, I never had any interest in checking it out the first time I heard of it!" But you're right, he sounds like he could spin just about anything.

Hang in there, Anne - your tenacity is second to none!

The PI I hired was worthless. After I had my evidence I filed for divorce. My attorney told me that the PI I chose (out of the phone book) was an X-cop and said he never did good for anyone....in my fact my attorney sued him on behalf of another client for take his client's money and giving nothing in the way of services. Anyway, all that to say that my attorney said if I had just come to him FIRST he would have given the name of a good PI. And in fact Anne, I definitely think you should consult attorney just to educate yourself...I bet he will have a good recommendation on a PI.

I don't remember if you've said before or not...but how did you get suspicious of your WH in the first place?

@MaritalBliss - Yes, he is good at spinning. Which is why I have to be good at predicting his actions as well as his words. I'm getting better at it.

@SmilingWoman - Good idea to get a PI from an attorney. I had already thought of that knowing that WH is an attorney and works with PIs sometimes. I started my financial file which I will need when I speak to an attorney. Once bills and statements come in, I put them away. Once I have everything, I can consider speaking with an attorney.

I got a little bit suspicious back in November when he went out with her and gave her a ride in my car but lied about why he took my car. I know for a fact he gave her a ride but he simply would not say it and started to get defensive. Honestly, I didn't think much too about it. I thought it was weird that he wouldn't just tell me. Now I know why.

When they went out in March, he was out really late which I thought was odd since A, she's a "client" and B, we had our son's birthday party the next day. So I texted him asking him if he was coming home (he will sometimes crash at his mom's house when he goes out drinking so he doesn't have to drive). He got so angry at me for texting him. One of the first things he said to me when he finally got home was "Don't you trust me?" He also wouldn't come near me or hug me (since he didn't have a chance to shower first, I'm sure...eeeewwww). He told me he was out late because his friends happend to call him and be nearby so they stopped in to have a drink with him and his client. I knew the way he was acting was not right and that I was seeing some pretty severe red flags.

So the next day, I got into his email and saw the "You know you are going to try to [censored] her again" email as well as one that said "Are you planning to [censored] ButterFace Friday night?" and that he and the friends had been planning the night out for a week.

I wish I had been more aware before March. I'm sure I would have seen many more red flags. Until very recently, I did trust him and thought there was no way he would jeopardize our life together. I could not have been more wrong. What hurts is that he's been using my trust against me all this time.

This jumped out at me. I realize that I didn't particularly trust Wxh, as much as I depended on him not being foolish enough to jeopardize our life together. He has always been very fond of his/our material things and I just thought he wouldn't risk giving up half of it in a divorce. What I didn't understand was that he thought I cared about our lifestyle as much as he did...he thought I'd never divorce him even if I caught him. I think he is still shell shocked that I just kicked him to the curb.

You said your mom knows? How is she holding up? I did not tell a single soul until I had enough to file for divorce. In fact, I filed first and then told my parents.

SmilingWoman - It's not the material posessions he values but our family. I never thought he would risk losing his family. Before I found out what was going on, I would have been telling you what an amazing husband and father he is. He just seems so "all in" about the family life and I really thought it made him happy. I guess the three of us (soon to be four) are not enough for him.

My mom does know. I had to tell her because she wanted to make me and WH medical power of attorney now that she is sick (breast cancer). I couldn't let her do that so I told her what was going on. She has been so supportive and it's really nice to be able to call her and talk to her about this. She's shocked, that's for sure. But she is also angry and hopes I find a way to "nail him to the wall" (her words, not mine). She and I are both going through a very rough time so it's good that we have each other. I'm also in therapy which helps a great deal.

I'm sorry you had to go through your ordeal alone. That must have been so hard. You have been such a help to me. I am so greatful to you!

Is this proof? WH told Dirtbag on the phone that he was going to play a practical joke on him. He was going to tell Dirtbag that I'm pregnant by scanning my baby's ultrasound picture and typing ButterFace's name over mine and showing it to Dirtbag and saying "I'm f*cked. This is why I had lunch with her two days ago." What do you think?

The keylogger is wonderful as far as finding out info. It only takes minutes to install and cannot be traced. Trust me if I can install it any one can!!!! Set up an e-mail account to have everything forwarded to. Remember to erase ALL history, every time you are on the computer.

Think of it this way. You are worried about setting up a keylogger on his computer because it is a work computer...hmmm doesn't seem to worry him to use it for NON work related "business" and planning on having sex with a potential client seems to be unethical.

It was the best money I ever spent (under $100). To this day I check it daily and each day that he is honest is a day closer to me healing. Sorry, but I looked at this as a war and I planned on winning.

I sent a money order for the keylogger software on Friday. I will get it installed as soon as I hear from them.

I really want to hear what everyone thinks of the lastest that WH told Dirtbag Friend on the phone that he was going to play a practical joke on him. He was going to tell Dirtbag that I'm pregnant by scanning my baby's ultrasound picture and typing ButterFace's name over mine and showing it to Dirtbag and saying "I'm f*cked. This is why I had lunch with her two days ago." After he had fun tricking Dirtbag into thinking that ButterFace is pregnant, he was going to let him know it's actually me. What do you think?

Even if he's trying to get a rise out of Dirtbag and/or gain acceptance into the cheater's club without actually having cheated (doubtful), I think this is indicative of complete insensitivity and lack of morals on his part.

I can't in a million years imagine my husband doing something like this and I don't have a whole lot of wonderful things to say about him these days.

It is proof enough for me. I can see that he would try to spin it....but if YOU are really convinced it is proof just stand firm and say "I know you have cheated on me with her." Whether he admits it or spins it as just joking will be a good indicator as to whether you want to repair the marriage and stay or kick him to the curb.

It's not quite a smoking gun. He can still spin this. "Oh, honey, I was joking when I told him we had sex!"

This latest development confirms what I already knew. However, Maritalbliss is right, he can spin it. He's very good at that. Because he is so careful and so good at spinning, I feel the need to get creative with my snooping in order to get proof. Here is an idea I had. I know you will all tell me what you think and help me figure out what to do.

I get a prepaid phone and call OW. I give her a fake name and tell her that I thinik we are seeing the same man and see if I can get her to talk about it. The idea being that OW does know he's married but might not like it if he was seeing another woman (other than his wife) behind her back. I've heard that makes them really mad to find out that they are not the only OW.

Please know that I'm not thinking of doing this out of craziness. In fact, it's just the opposite. I am being very calm and rational and trying to find a way to get what I need. WH is very good at lying so I need to get better at snooping. I have not made any decisions about this phone call and I'm simply looking for some feedback (the usual pros and cons). I will also gladly accept suggestions.

Maybe have a friend or family member make the call? Do you know the laws on recording phone calls in your state?

Hmm. As much as I like the idea of you forcing someone's hand, be it your H or ButterFace, I'd say no to this. You will be creating drama for them, and in a weird way I think it will draw them together as another point of having something (the drama) in common. You don't want them to have anything in common. Because you know her first call will be to him. And he'll know it was you because he knows he's not running with any other women. (I hope!)

And you also don't know the extent of their involvement. Maybe it was a ONS. Maybe it's more. Your call may appear to be fishing for info. I'd wait. Keep it in your back pocket as a possible future idea. I'd really like to see an eventual confrontation, but not with you pretending to be anything other than your H's wife.

Because WH's Dirtbag friends are so big on pranking each other, there is a very good chance he will think it was one of them having someone make the call rather than assuming it's me. Any time something weird happens, he assumes it's one of them playing a joke on him. Really, they play lots of stupid and sick jokes on one another.

I just don't think I'd go there right now. Easy enough to do it later, impossible to take it back if you screw any part of it up, KWIM?

You make a good point Maritalbliss. If I mess up, it could put me in a more difficult situation.

I'm having a really rough day. Hearing him joking about my baby's ultrasound pictures and wanting to use them in that way really hurt. I don't know if there is any hope for my marriage at this point. I don't like or respect him anymore and I think he might be too far gone to change. I hope tomorrow will be a better day.

I tend to agree Anne....he is pretty sick. Does he get on his computer much? Maybe the keylogger will yield some non spinnable info.

Again though I'd like to know what your goal is in obtaining absolutely proof? Is it to use in a court of law? Will it help you to have proof? If I were you I would go see an attorney, show him the evidence you have and ask him if you need more to get your best deal in the event of a divorce. If he thinks you need more he might have some ideas on how to get it....a good PI to recommend or something. I know you said funds are tight but I'd borrow money for this....and I think PIs are not always as expensive as we fear.

Back to the need for proof...is it for YOU? Do you doubt what he is really doing? Because if you believe he is a lying cheater....and more proof won't help you in a divorce.....and you think he won't change....then I am not sure you need anything more.

I have to admit absolute proof would be sweet though. It was for me.

If you ever want to do something like that, use a website called spoofcard (saw it on FOX news). It is less than $5.00 for about 25 minutes. You can call anyone you want, make it look like it is any number you want making the call, change your voice (or leave it the same)and record everything that is said. Granted many states have laws about recording phone calls and it may or may not be admissible in court, but if you are just wanting proof for yourself then it is the cheapest way to go.

When we were having issues with my H's ex not answering our phone calls when she had SS, I bought minutes and made it look like it was another number calling and then changed my voice asking for someone else, then called back using our real number. She would not answer when it was us calling. Bottom line was the attorney used it as proof she was not allowing us to talk to SS.

Legally we could not use the recorded part, but the time stamp part we could. It is just cheaper doing it this way than to buy a prepaid phone for making 1 or 2 calls.

I'm so sorry you are having a bad day. I know it is hard for anyone to go through an A, but you being pregnant just seems so much worse for him to be doing it.

SmilingWoman - He's mostly on his computer at work. When he's at home and needs a computer, he uses his work laptop which he brings home every night now. I sent a money order for the keylogger so there wouldn't be a paper trail. I just have to wait for the company to send me the activation code. I should have it up and running in the next few days, depending on when I get the code and when I get his computer alone for long enough.

I have several reasons for wanting undeniable proof. One is for a possible court case. You can file on grounds of adultery in my state so the more SOLID proof I have, the better my case. I'm putting together a folder of our financial information (there is debt which really stinks but it is what it is) and I am compiling a list of people that they can subpeona to testify about his affair (or affairs, whatever the case may be).

The second reason I need proof is for me. I see now that he has been gaslighting me for months. I let him do it so easily. I've loved and trusted this man for 20 years so if he offers up a reasonable explaination for his actions, then I'm afraid I might just be stupid enough to believe him. If I know he can't explain it away, I won't fall for his lies. I guess I'm trying to protect myself. Because I really don't want to believe all of this is true. It would be so much better if it weren't. But I know it is and I need to remember that. Proof will help me to do so.

The final reason I want proof is so that I can try to figure out how far this goes. Is it a new thing or has it been going on for years? Is she the first OW or one in a string of many? The more I find out on my own, the less I have to rely on him telling me the truth once I confront him. I'm not even sure he knows what the truth is anymore. He just seems to be having so much fun and it makes me sick that it's at the expense of everything I hold dear in my life.

If you'll remember, he is talking about getting together with Dirtbag and ButterFace sometime soon (which probably means in the next month or so). I would hate to screw things up now when I could be so close to getting what I've waited so long for. Today has been one of the worst days I've had in a while. Given my situation, bad days are to be expected and I'm surprised there haven't been more. Tomorrow will be better. Tomorrow my patience will return, my frustration will ease up and my sadness and disbelief will be replaced the strength and resolve I need to get me through this.

As always, thanks for listening. It really helps to have a place to go to speak openly about this. It's part of what gets me through the rough times.

Half Unit - Thanks for that info! That might come in handy someday soon, hopefully sooner rather than later!

Anne said

>>One is for a possible court case. >>

>>The second reason I need proof is for me.>>

<<<The final reason I want proof is so that I can try to figure out how far this goes. Is it a new thing or has it been going on for years? Is she the first OW or one in a string of many? The more I find out on my own, the less I have to rely on him telling me the truth once I confront him. I'm not even sure he knows what the truth is anymore. He just seems to be having so much fun and it makes me sick that it's at the expense of everything I hold dear in my life.>>


Your reasons above are well thought out and reasonable. You are being very very smart Anne. I really struggled with number 3 and it was only after I made the decision to leave him that I fully 'got' how far it went. A co-worker of my WXH and my own brother told me things that went back to the first year I was married to X. Some people here have said that they should not be telling me that stuff....but it helps me. And since I already had plenty of evidence I never confronted him with the additional stuff I had learned. For two reasons---one-- my brother and the co-worker did not want to have to deal with my XH...I told them both I would honor that request unless a custody battle would make it necessary to have their story told. And the other reason was I just didn't want to hear XH's explanation and spin and denials. He is a proven liar...so why confront him with more stuff.

Again I applaud your calm and cool way of dealing with this. I think of you every day.

T/J

THERE YOU ARE, SW! I had a thread here for you calling you out to TB's thread "New, Blue and in Need of a Clue".

I'll go bump it.

SmilingWoman - Thank you for your kind words and your support. You have no idea how much your posts mean to me. Yesterday was a very difficult day. Knowing that he was going to play a joke that ButterFace/OW is pregnant with his baby using my daughter's ultrasound pictures was one of the hardest things I've had to deal with. The fact that I didn't explode and confront him shows me that I have the strength and patience to handle this the right way.

I purchased a noice cancellation microphone which should help to reduce the background noise on the VAR. It's being shipped later this week. I just hope I ordered the correct adapter for it. The website was a little confusing.

Does anyone know if the free email carriers such as Yahoo! and Hotmail are okay to use for receiveing emails from keylogger software? I was concerned that the size of the files might cause a problem since those have somewhat limited attachment and storage capabilities. This will be on WH's work computer so there is going to be a lot of volume during the day and I don't want to miss anything. Would love to hear if anyone has had experience wiht this.

Today will be a better day.

I used the free Yahoo and didn't have any trouble. It was not XWH's work computer but at times there was A LOT of volume due to the hours he spent looking at porn.

Anne, I used a Yahoo addy too and had no problem. Also, Yahoo has upgraded their storage ability. But Gmail is also a good option.

Smilingwoman & OurHouse - Thanks for the feedback about free email. I'm going to send it to a Yahoo account I opened. Just waiting for the activation code.

Ugh, Dirtbag sent me a congratulations email about the baby. Sometimes I don't know who is worse...WH or Dirtbag. I wonder what they are planning. I tend to get emails from Dirtbag when they have something in the works. I think it makes it more fun for him to somehow incorporate me into their games.

I find that VERY disturbing. Really creeps me out.

Do you find yourself leaning toward not wanting this man (either one actually) in your life?

I am 100% certain that I do not want Dirtbag in my or my children's life. As for WH, I don't even know who he is anymore so I can't say. I am losing hope every day that he is or ever was the man I thought he was. He will be in my life though since I have children with him. I just need to figure out what role he will play in my life. That's one of the reasons I need to know the truth so badly.

Anything new Anne? Thinking of you this morning.

Nothing new since the horrible news about the ultrasound picture/joke. He's not at it every day so it makes it hard to get intel. He left his phone at home today so there won't be anything from the VAR which is fine because I got a new microphone for it and I wanted to test it anyway. Still waiting on the code for keylogger but I haven't had access to his laptop all week anyway. He got a virus yesterday so the IT guy will have it. Very lucky that I didn't get to install keylogger earlier this week as I had hoped since the IT guy would surely find it.

It was a very rough week but I'm hanging in there. It helps to know that others are thinking of me. Thanks for checking in. As soon as I find anything else out, I will let you know. Hopefully, that will be soon!

Can someone provide some insight?
Married 8 years, wife and I have become indifferent because of life, routine, etc. She stated wanting to leave because of an emotional affair she started with someone she was working with online (online job-work from home). I contacted gentleman to distance himself since wifey and I decided to seek marriage counseling. He has done so, however wife suspects I may have had something to do with it. She hasnt had the courage to do it herself...should i cop to it?

Its been 2 years now since she first mentioned leaving yet, she has done nothing to move in that direction except maintain distant relations with this gentleman. she also says her wanting to leave has nothing to do with him. I believe in the beginning that was the case however, 2 yrs later, i dont believe that.

if she wanted to leave regardless of him, wouldnt she have done so already? its two years later.

Hi Marriedguy,

I am so sorry that you find yourself to be a member of this club that no one wants to join. You really need to start your own thread to get any attention to your situation and also to not threadjack Annie's thread.

Please read all of the info on the site and go through other threads where you will likely find similiar situations. Include such info as yours and your WW's ages, when married, children, how you discovered the A. Things are kind of slow on the weekends so be patient. You are in a good place to get help with your M.

God's blessings,

Say

so sorry for the lack of etiquette, sorry annie

Okay everybody. I have a new development. Tell me what you think of this email I recieved from WH today:

"We were invited over to OW/ButterFace's townhouse for her to show the boys her new dog tomorrow night. We are just going to be outside with the dog at her park across the street, no dinner planned, but still good opportunity for you two to meet. She told me this morning her soon to be ex client the municipal league will be getting a case for us as a test case in the next couple of weeks."

My head is spinning and I don't know what to do/say/think. Thoughts? Advice?

Wait he wants you to meet the OW? WHY?? So you can punch her lights out? That would be the only explanation? But I haven't read threw your thread yet, just this last post of yours.

Interesting. I would agree to go, looking at it as a fact-finding mission. Just to see how they interact. Don't be surprised if they act 'normal' but they may tip their hand without meaning to, and you'll be there to see some sort of confirmation of what you expect.

In the spirit of �Keep your friends close and your enemies closer� I would certainly go.

He�s implying that they will be spending more time together soon and this visit is to gaslight you down the road with the �What are you talking about? You know we�re just friends.�

My first take is they are about to escalate the adultery.

Of course, you'll want to look your best and make sure you occasionally place a loving, possessive hand on H's arm, giggle prettily at his jokes, etc. Just in case he's painted you as the Wicked Wife of the West that he's in a loveless marriage with, KWIM?

I'm bumfuzzled?

Either your husband is one of the most brazen WH's ever, inviting you to her townhouse to meet the OW, thinking you are completely clueless.

Or, this has been a giant red herring? It's completely true that the way your husband has talked about this woman to scumbag friend is far beyond inappropriate, but was it just false bravado for scumbag friend's benefit?

It reminds me of how I behaved with friends in middle school. We all talked so demeaning about girls and bragged about what we would do, should do, and even made up stories about what we have done. But, none of it was real.

Your husband and especially the scumbag friend sound like Jr. High boys. I'm not saying this is the case, but it makes me wonder.

This really is not that uncommon. We have seen this many times before here.

Is the VAR in the car today? It might be interesting.

Okay, first of all... if this OW IS just a friend and they supposedly don't speak often... why would she think to call YOUR husband and ask him to bring YOUR boys over to see her new dog? I can't imagine a casual friend doing this, maybe a friend who I was involved with enough to know that they even HAVE a new dog or who would assume I or my children would be interested in seeing this dog.

And inviting you? This has to be a ruse for you to "see with your own eyes" that hey, we're just friends! See?? Otherwise why all the explanation about where they will be (as in not inside her home just at a dog park.)

Somethin' up here for sure. If it were me, I'd definitely go (looking smokin') and be asking her all kinds of questions or fishing for as much info on her as possible without it being obvious.

I agree. Put your detective hat on, Anne, and see what happens. This is weird and perverse on their parts, of course. But your H has been doing some pretty weird/perverse things. Go and see what happens.

Yes, I am going. I don't see how I can get out of it. Of course, he might be hoping that I won't go because I'm so tired and sick all the time from being pregnant and need to rest a lot (trouble with dehydration was causing some contraction-like symptoms). I'm sure this is a way to reinforce that "we're just friends" routine.

It will be hard to look my best at almost 5 months pregnant but it might be a good idea to go and show her my two kids plus the one growing in my tummy (and wear my most pregnant looking outfit). Although I truly believe she is cold-hearted and won't care or she wouldn't be doing what she's doing in the first place. I do know that she invited him to bring my boys over to meet her dog in an email last week but I wasn't mentioned as part of the deal then. I am DYING to read the emails today though unless they talked about it on the phone in his office. The VAR is in the car. I might not be able to get it out tonight and won't be able to listen to it until tomorrow at the earliest.

I think Chrishner is right and that they are planning to "escalate the adultery". What better way than to get me comfortable with their relationship?

I'm going to go and hope this leads to something I can use. I don't know how much longer I can take this. I will try to look on the bright side and hope that this leads to the break I've been waiting so long for.

Okay, I may be slow but it makes sense now. OW/ButterFace is changing jobs. This means she will not only be living but also working 10 minutes away from where we live. WH tends to work from a local library near her new office a few times a month so it's my guess that this convenient new location of ButterFace will allow them to take things to a new level and see each other more. No wonder he wants me to meet her and get comfortable about this. I think he wants to be able to pop over to her place for "lunch" when he's working from the library. These two make me sick. At least this might get me that proof I need!

As always, thinks for listening. I sure can't wait to hear what SmilingWoman has to say about these recent developments!

Let me say what is also probably obvious: be prepared for the worst, too. If he wants to make nice and pull this stunt to gaslight you, be ready for any contrived opportunities for them to be alone. Waywards are crraaaazy, you can't put anything past them.

Think in advance about what you will do given a variety of scenarios.

I am confused? Have you exposed this A? I've tried reading threw your thread but I haven't finished yet, I would have exposed months ago! To EVERYONE!

I about all over my monitor. He is brazen and he is about to escalate this adulterous relationship with her. He makes me sick. I hope you get your proof soon so you can stop living this lie he is forcing you to live.

Of course you have to go. No way out of it of course. He wants you VERY comfortable and he wants to be able to say 'An affair?!!!! Riiight Anne...I introduced you to my affair partner. That makes TOTAL sense.' As he rolls his eyes and makes a reference to pregnancy hormones.

Be on your toes girl. They are a special kind of sick.

(((Anne)))

There is nothing concrete to expose. He is an opportunist cheater....Every few months or so when the spirit moves him and his work load is not too heavy. The proof she has could be spun by him and it would be. She wants more definitive proof.

So she already lives close by where you live? And she will now be working close by as well? Makes me wonder if he isn't seeing her more often than you know now....but the VAR would probably tell you that....

Get the proof ASAP then dump his A$$! Show him and his buddies who's the IDIOT NOW! MWHAHAHAHAHAA!!! (evil laugh)

....Along this line Anne, I was thinking last night....Your WH thinks he is VERY clever. And as far as Waywards go, he is. However, as with most people who think they are so smart they also think everyone else tends to be an idiot. Use this to your advantage Play up his belief that you are totally clueless about his true character. He will be SHOCKED when you present him with damning evidence. He will also be SHOCKED that you have been able to play this sick game for as long as you have. Even the evidence that seems weak now (not to ME, but he would laugh it off as a joke) will NOT seem weak even to him when presented with undeniable proof.

He thinks he is very smart. Just keep remembering that...those type of people eventually fall due to that very arrogant belief. Use it to your advantage.

I am 99% certain that he does not see her frequently at this point. However, her changing jobs and being closeby all the time is bound to change that. Especially now that the client work he was trying to get from her has actually begun. Although she is leaving the job so this will be her ex-client after another week. WH is talking about her getting him business from her new place of work so there is his excuse to remain in contact with her and take her to lunch when he works from the library. Blech!

From reading the emails I see that this meeting between OW and my kids was her idea. He took her up on it. I also saw that my name was not mentioned in the emails so, unless he spoke with her on the phone from his office, it looks as if she was expecting tonight to be her, him and my two kids. I wonder if she will be surprised to see me there. I wonder if he thought I wouldn't go.

Wish me luck tonight. Thankfully, I have an event at school so I have a good reason to dress nicer than normal without it looking obvious. I just hope this leads to the concrete proof I have been waiting so long for.

good luck and I'm so proud of you for being so strong.....remember you are doing this for those beautiful little children of yours.....
Right now he thinks he is smarter than you, but he will soon learn who the smartest one is.......
I have to say he has a lot of guts and the friend is an ***hole........
He deserves everything he is going to get and feel........
My hat is off to you for sticking up for yourself and your kids.....
Come here for support........

Thanks for the kind thoughts jessitaylor. I think he has underestimated me. He's still being extremely careful but if they escalate things, he might let his guard down - especially after I have met her and see that they are "just friends."

I really don't expect anything big to happen tonight or even in the next few days since she doesn't start her new job for a week. But they are setting something up so I will just be patient and wait for my opportunity. I've made it this far, I can stick it out until I get what I need.

The support I get here is one of the things that has kept me going. I'm so thankful I found the MB website!

What about the keylogger? Have you heard anything back from it?

No, I have contacted customer service from the company I used and am waiting to hear from them. I wonder if my MO got lost somewhere. It doesn't matter because he has not been bringing the computer home anyway so I haven't had oppportunity to install it anyway. Once I finally get the matter figured out with the company and get my access code, I will have to find a way to get it on his computer. He's always warning Dirtbag Friend about what he does on his computer so I may not get much but it's worth a try.

On a positive note, I purchased a noise cancellation microphone for the VAR and it works WONDERS on getting rid of the background noise you get when recording in a car! Now, I just need him to say something incriminating!!! He hasn't done that since the day he talked about the sick ultrasound picture joke which was almost two weeks ago. I wonder if he suspects I bugged his car? I hope not because it's my best shot at getting what I need.

Is there anyway that you can look up an IM sent 3 years ago? I just discovered an affair that had been going on for 5 years, I got into his e mails, but there are some missing info that was exchanged in an IM

teaser -- check out the spying thread.
If you can purchase a SIM card reader, it would provide you with a lenthy history of text messages. I also recommend starting your own thread.

Anne -- I'll be wishing you well tonight. Not easy to come face to face with the enemy! Best of luck to you! Keep that calm-strong-goddess-attitude!

Whoo hoo!!! I just heard from the keylogger software company and I have my access code and they are sending me the CD (which they recommend for installation on other computers). Now, I just need my opportunity. He hasn't been bringing it home lately but I will do it the first chance I get.

Lexxxy - Thanks! I know it won't be easy but I am very calm and focused today. This is not a good day to be falling apart and I know that God is giving me the strength and focus I need to get through tonight. I can fall apart tomorrow - and I'm sure I will. I don't expect much to happen tonight and maybe not even anytime soon. But I will be ready once something finally does break in this sordid situation.

I am sorry but I am new to this site so I will have to ask what you mean by starting my own thread and how do I do that? I am in what I refer to as crisis mode and not thinking clearly

Teaser,

Go to the Surviving an Affair forum and at the top left hand of the thread listing there is a button called "New Topic"

Click on that, enter a thread title and enter your question and information.

Good luck.

Thanks!

Can't wait to find out what happened tonight anne!!

Let us KNOW ASAP

Me too! I've been away at my new house painting all day and the first thing I did was log on to check Anne's thread. I really didn't expect much since she isn't going to OW's house until this evening....but still couldn't wait to log on.

Anne, glad you are getting your keylogger. It is AMAZING what you will find...especially if he generally keeps it with him...he will never susupect you've loaded software on it to track everything he does.

So how was the party?

Here is the latest:

I went with WH and two kids to OW's house last night. On the surface, it was very normal and if I didn't know better, it would have served the purpose WH intended it to (i.e., to get me comfortable and show that they are "just friends"). However, I was on guard and noticed things I probably would otherwise not have. Here are the high points:

1. He made a point to call her and ask for her house number. He acted like he had never been there and even drove past it and had to go back. I know for a fact he was there in November and he is one of those people who remembers exactly how to get somewhere after being there only one time (seriously, the man can remember how to get to places he was at from his childhood over 20 years ago). He put on a good act though.

2. The two of them talked a LOT and made little effort to include me in the converation. It was mostly about her dog and then a little about her job situation (she's starting a new job in a week). He's right, she talks a lot! It was blah, blah, blah for the entire time we were there.

3. WH was VERY nervous. I'm not sure if I would have picked up on that or not if I didn't know what I know but he was jittery in a very subtle way. I could tell he was on edge and he had a nervous energy that he seemed to be trying to control.

4. WH almost tripped on her dogs leash and she made some comment about how she would have had to have told that story to all "everyone we know" and then she sort of corrected herself and said "I would have told everyone I know."

5. Here is a line from an email to Dirtbag Friend yesterday: "I am going over to ButterFace/OW's house tonight with Anne and the boys to see her new dog, and her and my wife to finally meet." No reply from DF but I am dying to see what he says. They made plans to talk but he may have done so from his office. The conversations in the car have been limited lately so I'm not sure if he suspects I'm listening in or what.

that's all I can remember rigth now. My head is spinning. I see now more than ever that I need to have iron-clad proof before I confront. So now, I wait.

He doesn't suspect. He thinks he is too smart for you. Keep on what you are doing. You are doing GREAT!!!

Yeah, but did she actually have a "butterface"?

Thanks SmilingWoman. Hopefully something will break soon. I need WH and Dirtbag to talk in the car because I'm sure Dirtbag has something to say about us meeting. Hopefully, he responded to WH's email about us meeting.

Schtoop - LOL. As the saying goes, she is nothing to write home about. I have seen pictures of her so I knew what to expect. She's blond, a little on the heavy side, rather plain and not such a pretty face. She was wearing a t-shirt and sweatpants.

About 20 minutes after we left, she wrote "I'm really glad that today is over. It was not a fun day." as her Facebook status. Really, ButterFace?!? Now you know how I feel!