Marriage Builders®
Posted By: anne505 I Need Help! - 03/22/10 07:38 PM
I'm new here. My husband is cheating but I don't yet have enough evidence to confront him. What do I do? I'm so scared and confused.
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 07:41 PM
We need a little more anne.

Your ages?
How long married?
Kids?
Is the OW (other woman)a co-worker with WH (wayward husband)?
How long?
Is the OW married?
What's your clues and evidence?
A little background on your life and marriage.

Sorry your here but we may be able to help.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 08:00 PM
I am 40, he's 39.

Married 10 years. Together for 19 years.

Two boys, 9 and 5. I'm 7 weeks pregnant.

OW is a potential cilent he is trying to get some business from.

I don't know how long it's been going on or how many times. He met her in November '08. OW is not married and is 39 or 40. She had a bad breakup with her boyfriend in October '09.

Clues are that he isn't honest when he goes out with her. In fact, the first few times, he saw her, he didn't even tell me about it. He saw her in November and I know he gave her a ride to and from the restaurant but lied to me about it when I asked him why he took my car that night. Another clue is that he wanted his friends to meet her. He took her out Friday night and had his friends pretend to call him on the spur of the moment to see if he wanted to go out and then he invited them out with him to meet OW. He made it sound to me (and to her) that it was all spontaneous and unplanned but he planned it out with his best friend (a HUGE cheater) all week long.

I found some evidence in his emails. He and his best friend were emailing back and forth about their upcoming plans for Friday night. In one email, the friend asked if he was planning to [censored] her Friday night. WH answered with a joke so he could always say they were both joking. In a separate email, the friend asked him if I knew he was going out with her or if it was hush hush. WH says "Unlike you. She knows. I'm trying to get business from her." Friend replies with "ya I am sure but does she know what kind of business come on you know you are trying to [censored] her again" WH's reply was "That would be too close for comfort, but would be convienient since she lives five minutes away."

I don't want to confront him yet for two reasons. One is that he can (and I'm sure will) lie his way out of it. The second is that he has no idea I'm reading his emails and if he finds out, he will no longer talk openly in them.

Do I just wait and hope he says more?
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 08:08 PM
Quote
She had a bad breakup with her boyfriend in October '09.


How did you get this information? If it was from your (clearly) wayward husband you need to confirm it.

How are you getting his email? Do you have a keylogger or just hacked his passwords?

Do you have any cell phone bill information?



Quote
He and his best friend were emailing back and forth about their upcoming plans for Friday night.

Is this in reference to THIS upcoming Friday night?
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 08:11 PM
Quote
I don't want to confront him yet for two reasons. One is that he can (and I'm sure will) lie his way out of it. The second is that he has no idea I'm reading his emails and if he finds out, he will no longer talk openly in them.


You are very correct on both counts. You need more.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 08:19 PM
I can read his emails because I have his password but he does not know that.

I know about the bad breakup because I saw her Facebook profile and she wrote about in on here.

In reference to last Friday, when he planned for his friends to meet up with him and OW.

Here is what his friend had to say about meeting OW "I liked your girl a little bit of a butter face but you guys looked great together we thought she was going to be all over you friday night Lets go out with her again soon"

Is this enough proof for a confrontation?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 08:31 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I can read his emails because I have his password but he does not know that.

I know about the bad breakup because I saw her Facebook profile and she wrote about in on here.

In reference to last Friday, when he planned for his friends to meet up with him and OW.

Here is what his friend had to say about meeting OW "I liked your girl a little bit of a butter face but you guys looked great together we thought she was going to be all over you friday night Lets go out with her again soon"

Is this enough proof for a confrontation?

I know it's hard, but see if you can get anything else - he can spin that. It's a little vague and a WS will turn it into "Oh, he was just talking about her kicking my butt on the Golden Tee game..." or "He meant our SCORE looked great when we played on the same team!" And boom. You just lost a prime snooping source.

You have a golden opportunity with the email - don't lose your cool and tip your hand that you have his pw. Keep snooping. The best intel will be email between the two of them. Sorry if I missed this, but do you have access to his cell phone, or cell phone records? Those are prime snooping sources. How about his banking statements, credit card bills? Any unusual charges on those?

Can you snoop through his car for evidence? How about getting a VAR (voice activated recorder) to plant in his car to record anything he says while he's in it?

Key loggers - check them out. Go to http://www.spectorsoft.com Can you install one on his computer? They are virtually undetectable and are invaluable.
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 08:38 PM
Quote
Here is what his friend had to say about meeting OW "I liked your girl a little bit of a butter face but you guys looked great together we thought she was going to be all over you friday night Lets go out with her again soon"

Is this enough proof for a confrontation?


It sure is for me but he will still deny. We had a guy caught here once in his underwear in the doorway of a motel room and he still denied.

More would be better and before you do anything get a keylogger that takes screenshots on that computer. If he thinks you are onto him he will change passwords. Better if you have a keylogger on it first.

Don't tell him about this place. Stay cool.

Delete your history and cookies from here after every visit.

Have you done snooping? Bills, phones, cars, briefcases, drawers, the garage, everywhere? You need to carefully and thoroughly snoop.

Are you a stay at home mom?

Don't get caught snooping.

If your real name is anne you should consider changing the screen name.

By the way, his frend is a real stinking pile.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 08:51 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I can read his emails because I have his password but he does not know that.

I know about the bad breakup because I saw her Facebook profile and she wrote about in on here.

In reference to last Friday, when he planned for his friends to meet up with him and OW.

Here is what his friend had to say about meeting OW "I liked your girl a little bit of a butter face but you guys looked great together we thought she was going to be all over you friday night Lets go out with her again soon"

Is this enough proof for a confrontation?

What Chrisner said - look everywhere. WS's are notorious for leaving clues. You just need to look to find them. If I had been suspicious, I could have caught my FWH with the first month's cell phone bill. And his emails.

Another thing: see if you can get his cell phone away from him. If it's glued to his side, even when he goes to the bathroom, that's a huge redflag . See if you can get it long enough to check his texts. If they are erased, redflag . Write down the cell phone number and the message for each incriminating text. Check his contacts - write them all down, including phone numbers. Pay attention to odd-sounding contacts, like the name of a company instead of a person's name. Call the numbers you don't recognize (use *67 so your number doesn't show up) and ask for an unusual name, like Jezreal Constantopoulos, or whatever. Any name that the owner of the phone probably wouldn't be called. You don't want to be caught flat-footed if the owner of the phone is the name you ask for. shocked
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 08:52 PM
A private eye would probably wrap this one up pretty quick.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 08:52 PM
I do have access to his cell phone at times but he doesn't make frequent calls to her. There migth be another phone (his cheating friend has another phone) but I haven't been able to find one. As for cell phone records, his work pays for his phone so I can't get to those. I check the banking statements and credit card bills but nothing unusual.

He cleaned out his car after his weekend so I'm sure there isn't anything in there but I can check. Which VAR should I get? That sounds like a great idea.

A key loggers doesn't help me since his laptop is his work computer and I can't put anything like that on it. He doesn't use our home computer.

I know with what little I have, he will deny and say his friends are playing a joke on him. I'm trying to remain calm but this is so new to me and being pregnant doesn't help (yes, it was planned).

I am a stay at home mom. I am not using my real name.

And, yes, his frend is a real stinking pile. And, as much as it breaks my heart, I'm beginning to think he is too. The friend has cheated on his wife for two years with at least three different women. WH would used to tell me all about it.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I'm new here. My husband is cheating but I don't yet have enough evidence to confront him. What do I do? I'm so scared and confused.

Get the evidence and then come back here.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 08:55 PM
I can't afford a private eye.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 08:57 PM
I'm trying to get proof. I will just keep reading the emails. It's almost impossible to pretend like nothing is wrong. How do you pull that off?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 08:58 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I do have access to his cell phone at times but he doesn't make frequent calls to her. There migth be another phone (his cheating friend has another phone) but I haven't been able to find one. As for cell phone records, his work pays for his phone so I can't get to those. I check the banking statements and credit card bills but nothing unusual.

He cleaned out his car after his weekend so I'm sure there isn't anything in there but I can check. Which VAR should I get? That sounds like a great idea.

A key loggers doesn't help me since his laptop is his work computer and I can't put anything like that on it. He doesn't use our home computer.

I know with what little I have, he will deny and say his friends are playing a joke on him. I'm trying to remain calm but this is so new to me and being pregnant doesn't help (yes, it was planned).

I am a stay at home mom. I am not using my real name.

And, yes, his frend is a real stinking pile. And, as much as it breaks my heart, I'm beginning to think he is too. The friend has cheated on his wife for two years with at least three different women. WH would used to tell me all about it.

You can install a keylogger on his laptop if you can get it away from him for any length of time. You can install a keylogger that will email reports to your email address. It only takes about 10 minutes to install. The program erases its own files. You may have to tell the spyware program to ignore the keylogger program. What is your reluctance to install it?

I can't remember the name of the VAR I used, but plan on spending at least $40. The first one I bought ($25) was worthless.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 08:59 PM
I thought it was illegal to install a keylogger on a computer you do not own. WH is a lawyer. I'm just trying to be careful.

Where can I find a VAR?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 09:01 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I thought it was illegal to install a keylogger on a computer you do not own. WH is a lawyer. I'm just trying to be careful.

Where can I find a VAR?

You think your lawyer H will take you to court? Get the keylogger.

Check RadioShack for the VAR.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 09:03 PM
His boss owns the computer, not WH.

I'll look at RadioShack.
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 09:09 PM
Quote
I can't afford a private eye.


I would make some calls anyway. You might be surprised. If you catch his emails making another date sometime soon this would all be over in a few hours.

Be sure to print and hide multiple copies of whatever you find.



Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/22/10 10:59 PM
I am keeping copies of everything. I checked his computer and he keeps it pretty clean so I'm not getting anything off of that without the keylogger. I will get a VAR. I think that will help a lot.

This makes me so sick! I can't believe I'm pregnant and in this situation. Thank you for being so helpful. I hope this gets resolved (one way or another) sooner rather than later.
Posted By: anne505 How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 12:55 AM
I have the gut feeling and some minor evidence of WH's affair but it is not enough. What I have could be explained away as a prank by his moron friends. I need more proof but it's just so hard not to confront him. Where do you find the patience for the waiting game?
Posted By: _SOL Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 01:03 AM
How much snooping have you done? have you checked cell phone records? Installed a keylogger?
Posted By: arkhawk1 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 01:04 AM
Admittedly, I don't have it....and I am a very patient person.

However, since your husband does not know that you suspect anything, then you do have the upper hand. Having an affair is very difficult. Lies upon lies, hiding things, covering up things, etc. If you can be patient, then he WILL slip up and you will find out. If you confront too fast, then he'll go underground and it will be more difficult.

There are a lot of posts here that deal with snooping. Check the cell phone records, get a keylogger, get a GPS, and a voice recorder (thats how I finally found out) because she was talking to her friend about her affair (some friend huh).

Don't confront until you have some proof, they will just lie.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 01:06 AM
This all started Saturday so I've made my way through all the emails. Cell phone records don't help since OW is a potential client of his and he took her out Friday night (said it was business but I found out otherwise). No keylogger yet but I do oplan to get an AVR this week and place in his car. Any advice on where to put it or how those work? I am clueless!
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 01:07 AM
How would a GPS help? This is all so new to me. I know his friends met her and they are helping to cover up too. The best man from our wedding (although he is a huge cheater so I shouldn't be surprised). This is horrible
Posted By: arkhawk1 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 01:08 AM
get some velcro and you can put it under the seat or steering wheel or inside dash
Posted By: Scotland Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 01:10 AM
Anne- I know it is frustrating, but could you please stick to one thread and maybe add a signature line. There are a few newly BS on here today and we might get confused and you will not get the help you need if we keep asking the same questions. You can click notify on the bottom of your post and ask the mods to combine your threads. Thanx


As far as how you find the patience, well it is hard. I was very bad with AO's and I would not be able to contain what I had found. It was bad because it would make my WH go further underground and make it harder for me to find things.
Posted By: _SOL Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 01:12 AM
Anne,

It may help a little to just use one thread on here. I just read your other thread and I'm a little more caught up.

First of all, I"m so sorry you are here- but, you are in the right place and you are not alone. You will get some great advice from many who have been through this. You have already gotten some good advice:

Keep snooping
Don't confront just yet.

I got a VAR at best buy for around $60. Make sure you get a digital one that is voice activated so the batteries last longer. If you suspect WH is talking to skank in the house, place it in that room. If you think WH talks to skank OW in the car, place one there too. There is a separate thread on SPying 101 that has some good advice.

Keep copies of the emails you are reading as you may need them down the road.

As far as patience- can't help you there. I snooped for quite a while and I still am! It does help to know that you are no longer simply a victim in this. You are now taking action.

Best of luck.
Posted By: arkhawk1 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 01:16 AM
get a digital voice recorder and use the VOR (voice activated feature) and plenty of batteries. Be prepared for what you may hear. My experience was very painful.

If he has an iphone or blackberry there is a download called flexispy. I havent been able to use it but it looks promising.

A GPS in his car will track where he's been going. If he winds up at her house or somewhere else he shouldn't be, you'll know. A PI or a friend that he doesnt know can also help.

What surprised me most about my wife's affair was how she turned from a sweet, innocent girl next door into a master manipulator and BIG TIME LIAR, even swore on my kids' lives. Don't underestimate what you may be dealing with.

Good luck.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 01:08 PM
Thanks for all the advice. I apologize for not using better manners no the forum. This is all so new and I'm in a state of panic. It's so hard to deal with the constant anxiety. Again, thanks for all your help.


Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 01:22 PM
Here is an email update. I guess a friend of WH played a prank on him him and he is mad. He told their mutal friend that he would get back at him. Here his the mutal friend's reply:

"I just talked to him. DO YOURSELF A FAVOR because he is not in the mood i guess he has lost a lot of money in the stockmarket. Do you know that he took a picture of you and your girl on Friday with his iphone. He says he is going to make a profile page on facebook and use the picture and state all these reasons that he likes this girl and wants to leave his wife. I AM TELLING YOU LEAVE IT ALONE"

Any thoughts on this latest development? WH hasn't replied yet and might not since he might just use the phone.


Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)
Posted By: believer Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 01:34 PM
Has your husband cheated before? Just wondering because he sure has some sleazy friends.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 03/23/10 01:39 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I am keeping copies of everything. I checked his computer and he keeps it pretty clean so I'm not getting anything off of that without the keylogger. I will get a VAR. I think that will help a lot.

This makes me so sick! I can't believe I'm pregnant and in this situation. Thank you for being so helpful. I hope this gets resolved (one way or another) sooner rather than later.

Well, I'll throw in a comment here about how he's a low-life dog for doing this to you while you're pregnant, but he's a low-life dog for doing it to you at all. So I'll leave that there, and tell you to take care of yourself. Eat healthy food. Rest. Light exercise. Walking is good for the baby and a good stress reliever. Try to do good things for yourself. Don't neglect yourself right now. I know that's easier said than done. Take care of that baby.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 01:40 PM
@ believer - If you had asked me that question a week ago, the answer would have been no. Now, I can only guess that this is not the first time. His best friend has been cheating on his wife for three years. I've known about it all along because WH used to tell me all about it. Lately, he's stopped talking about it and telling me nothing is going on right now.

WH's father cheated on his mother when he was young and destroyed their marriage. Both friends in the post above are cheaters. I guess I should have seen this coming. I feel so stupid.

Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 01:46 PM
@ marital bliss - Thank you so much for the kind words. It brougth me to tears to know that someone cares about what I'm going through.

Can you believe he told me in December that he wanted another baby and we tried for three months to have another kid? He was overjoyed when I told him and sent me roses. I am simply in shock.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 01:51 PM
Anne, it's possible that your H did not cheat on you prior to this since he was talking to you about his friends. His going quiet about them is a red flag to me.

You've gotten some great advice here. I would also add:

1. Ramp up the snooping, however/whichever way you can. The sooner you have evidence to confront, the sooner you can begin taking the next steps to bust up the affair and hopefully save your marriage. The longer the A goes on, the harder this will be.

2. There are some things you can begin doing RIGHT NOW, even before you have enough proof.

---read up on everything here. Basic concepts; Plan A, Plan B, etc.
--- figure out what you think his ENs are and start executing a Plan A to meet them.
---The reason you got here most likely was that the two of you stopped meeting each other's top ENs. You created an atmosphere where someone else could come in and meet them. You share that fault with your husband 50%. But remember...


THE AFFAIR IS IN NO WAY YOUR FAULT. Whatever was wrong or missing in your marriage to date, can be addressed and fixed. His choosing to have an affair to "fix" it, it completely his fault and his alone. He owns 100% of the blame for the affair.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 02:49 PM
@OurHouse - Thank you for the advice. I really just want to know what I'm dealing with and it kills me that he would probably lie to me if I talked to him about it now.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 03:04 PM
This may sound like a stupid question but how do you know when you have enough proof? I won't be able to get photos so when do I go to him with what I have? Advice?

Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Here is an email update. I guess a friend of WH played a prank on him him and he is mad. He told their mutal friend that he would get back at him. Here his the mutal friend's reply:

"I just talked to him. DO YOURSELF A FAVOR because he is not in the mood i guess he has lost a lot of money in the stockmarket. Do you know that he took a picture of you and your girl on Friday with his iphone. He says he is going to make a profile page on facebook and use the picture and state all these reasons that he likes this girl and wants to leave his wife. I AM TELLING YOU LEAVE IT ALONE"

Any thoughts on this latest development? WH hasn't replied yet and might not since he might just use the phone.


Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)

This sounds manufactured, to me. Is it possible that your H knows you've got access to his emails? Maybe I'm just overly suspicious...

Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 03:22 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
This may sound like a stupid question but how do you know when you have enough proof? I won't be able to get photos so when do I go to him with what I have? Advice?

Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)

Let us know what you've got and we'll tell you when you're ready. Don't go off too soon and blow your cover.

There are a lot of redflag and I know it's difficult to remain quiet. But you've got to do this right now.
Posted By: Scotland Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 03:34 PM
Anne- STAY CALM, COOL AND COLLECTED.

This is really hard and it may get even harder for you so you definitely have to take care of yourself.

I don't like the feeling of that email. I guess you know which friends you are going to ask him to stay away from if you have a chance to R your M.

I can't even imagine going through this all while you are pregnant. Take care of yourself and listen to what the people are telling you on here. You will be FINE. laugh
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 03:44 PM
@maritalbliss - I know, I considered that possiblity too and wish it were true. However, he is acting soooo strange. I'm sure if I confront him, that would be his story. I need proof one way or another since I've lost trust in him. There are just too many red flags. As for proof, these emails are it. Everything else is just clues and red flags. But I feel the emails, especially the one where the friend asks WH if he's goign to [censored] this girl again says it all.

@Scotland - yes that email (along with the others in my post) tells me what I need to know. But, I need solid proof he will just say it's a joke or he was trying to see if I check his email. As for him staying away from those friends, I sadly think that will never happen.

No luck getting a voice activated recorder. Best Buy and Radio Shack had voice recorders but they were not voice activated. Any suggestions?

Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)
Posted By: OurHouse Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 03:47 PM
Google VAR and see what you get. (delete your browsing history when done).

You need to have some solid proof because when you do confront, chances are he'll deny everything and you have to stand firm in your convictions without divulging your sources. If it's vague stuff you have and you are not feeling sure, it's possible for him to derail you. Thinking about it like a chess game...you've got to plan about 3-4 moves out...might help you stay calm and focused.

Also, rethink the keylogger. I know it's a work computer but I doubt he or his employer will drag you into court. Once you get your evidence and print/copy it, you can delete the keylogger. You never have to tell him how you know what you know. Just that *YOU KNOW*.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 03:49 PM
@OurHouse - I am sure he's cheating. But I do understand that they will deny, deny, deny unless you have solid proof. What I have will be explained away and then he will throw it back on me for snooping and not trusting him. Classic guilty behavior. Plus, me being pregnant works against me because I'm emotional and sensitive right now. He will use that in his favor too. I will check out the VARs and see what I find. I want to buy one at a store if I can but no luck so far.

As for the keylogger on his work computer, I am thinking about it. I am trying to keep in mind how important his job is to me and my kids no matter what happens. I really don't want to cause problems for him at work. As tempting as it is...


Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)

Posted By: Scotland Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 03:59 PM
Anne- He already caused problems at his work by doing this with a potential client. I think a keylogger may give you some SOLID proof. As far as the VA, I bought mine at Radio Shack. I just walked in and said, "Can I have a VAR please?" It was on sale so I got lucky.

My WH denied up until the moment when I said, "You know I installed a keylogger, you found it after 2 hours. Think about what you wrote to her." Then he just said, "Yes" but that was all he would say.

As far as his friends, what I meant was that IF you have a chance at recovery, these friends will HAVE to go. It will be a condition of yours. You'll see what I mean in time. laugh
Posted By: OurHouse Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 04:00 PM
Anne, if he is cheating with someone at work, exposure could very well mess with his employment. But you will HAVE to expose at the workplace. Just something to think about.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
@maritalbliss - I know, I considered that possiblity too and wish it were true. However, he is acting soooo strange. I'm sure if I confront him, that would be his story. I need proof one way or another since I've lost trust in him. There are just too many red flags. As for proof, these emails are it. Everything else is just clues and red flags. But I feel the emails, especially the one where the friend asks WH if he's goign to [censored] this girl again says it all.

@Scotland - yes that email (along with the others in my post) tells me what I need to know. But, I need solid proof he will just say it's a joke or he was trying to see if I check his email. As for him staying away from those friends, I sadly think that will never happen.

No luck getting a voice activated recorder. Best Buy and Radio Shack had voice recorders but they were not voice activated. Any suggestions?

Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)

Then skip Best Buy and Radio Shack! I got mine at WalMart. Try there. Try any store that has an electronics department.

Put it under the dash - there should be an opening that is near the steering column. There may also be an area on the passenger side just below the glove compartment. Under the seat may work, depending on where the seat adjustment device is placed. Use velcro - liberal amounts, you don't want it shake loose and drop on the floor.

Try it out on your own car first, to determine best placement. Place it, then drive around and talk to determine where you'll get the best audio.

Honey, you'd better consider his losing those friends as one of your requirements for R, or you'll find yourself here again.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 04:09 PM
@OurHouse - OW is a potential client so they don't work together. Thank God for that since he doesn't get to see her much.

@maritalbliss - thanks for the tips on the VAR. I'm working on it!

Believe me, losing those friends is key if we want to stay together. I just don't think he will give up his friends. I guess what I'm saying is I don't have much hope.


Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)

Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 04:14 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
@OurHouse - OW is a potential client so they don't work together. Thank God for that since he doesn't get to see her much.

@maritalbliss - thanks for the tips on the VAR. I'm working on it!

Believe me, losing those friends is key if we want to stay together. I just don't think he will give up his friends. I guess what I'm saying is I don't have much hope.


Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)

So, listen to what you're saying. Your WH would rather lose you and your children (including the one he was thrilled to hear was on the way back at Christmas-time) so he can hang with his friends? They sound like a bunch of damned frat boys!

First, I suspect he will lose the friends when he's out of his fog and realizes what he has done. Second, do you really want a life like that? With these guys around, constantly chipping away at any boundaries your H has? Think about that. Decide later.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 05:11 PM
I don't even know what I'm saying or doing anymore. It was just a few weeks ago on March 3 that I told WH I was pregnant and he was thrilled. 10 days later and my entire world has been turned upside down.

Right now I'm biding my time because I can't check his email until I know he's not in it. It's his work email so it will be awhile before I can access it today. I've been researching VARs but I'm so confused and overwhelmed by everything that I can't think straight.

What keylogger software does everyone recommend?


Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 05:25 PM
Does he use a blackberry? Or an Iphone?

Google Flexispy. Its great for those types of phones.
Then if he is accessing his work emails from his phone, you would be able to capture a lot.

So sorry for what you are going through Anne.
Talk to your OB on your next appointment and ask for their recommendation on dealing with the added stress.


When you are ready to confront him -- do not feel like you have to justify or reveal your sources. Just look at him and say "I know."


Posted By: chrisner Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 05:30 PM
This should help.



Keylogger Reviews
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 05:33 PM
He uses a regular cell and either doesn't text much or erases them a lot. I can access his work emails but I have to wait until he's not at work. I don't know what would happen if I tried to read the emails while he was logged on at work. Seems like that could cause a problem.

Thanks for the kind words, Lexxxy. It really means so much. I was thinking of speaking to my OB but I'm just so ashamed and embarassed. I have an ultrasound on Thursdy. Was supposed to be a happy day for me and now I can't even think about it. The week of my first OB appointment, he was busy making plans for his Friday night outing (March 19) with OW and his horrible friends.

I don't want to reveal my sources but I do want to have more proof so he can't lie his way out of it.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 05:33 PM
Thanks chrisner!
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I don't even know what I'm saying or doing anymore. It was just a few weeks ago on March 3 that I told WH I was pregnant and he was thrilled. 10 days later and my entire world has been turned upside down.

Right now I'm biding my time because I can't check his email until I know he's not in it. It's his work email so it will be awhile before I can access it today. I've been researching VARs but I'm so confused and overwhelmed by everything that I can't think straight.

What keylogger software does everyone recommend?

http://www.spectorsoft.com

Pay close attention to the one that will email reports to you.


Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)
Posted By: wannamoveforward Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 06:32 PM
Quote
was thinking of speaking to my OB but I'm just so ashamed and embarassed. I have an ultrasound on Thursdy. Was supposed to be a happy day for me and now I can't even think about it. The week of my first OB appointment, he was busy making plans for his Friday night outing (March 19) with OW and his horrible friends.


Your M is a priority AND also is the little one growing inside of you.
Dont let the A take away from what you need in order to keep youself healthy and in turn the baby healthy.
If you think it will make you FEEL better to talk to the OB about your "mental crisis" then dont be afraid of doing so. Doctors can help you better deal with your PHYSICAL symptoms when they know you mental state.
If you are embarrsed to reveal details, then perhaps you can let him/her know that you are having M issues and the home evrironment is pretty stressed at th emoment, meawhile you want to make sure that you have the tools you need in order to insulate your body & baby from the mental stress.
Post D day I fell physically sick, could not eat could not breathe and barely could function and take care of the 3 semi-independent kids. I cant even begin to imagine keeping my body in a state healty enough for a pregnancy.
Thank god women are strong enough mentally and physically to deal with childbirth. I have no doubt that you can dig deep in and pull out the strenght you need to survive this.
Dont be afraid to take help from where ever you can get it. If talking to the OB will help then do it.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 06:40 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Thanks for the kind words, Lexxxy. It really means so much. I was thinking of speaking to my OB but I'm just so ashamed and embarassed. I have an ultrasound on Thursdy. Was supposed to be a happy day for me and now I can't even think about it. The week of my first OB appointment, he was busy making plans for his Friday night outing (March 19) with OW and his horrible friends.

I talked to my OB about H's A. He (OB) was wonderful - very understanding.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 06:52 PM
@maritalbliss & wannamoveforward - Thanks for the advice. I am starting to worry about the effect all this stress will have on my baby, not to mention my two sons. Due to my age, I will have a CVS test to make sure the baby is all right. I was so worried about the test and now I don't even think about it. Instead, this is all I think about.

We're planning a trip to my mom's for Easter and I just don't know how I'm going to get through that. I was planning to tell her about the baby then but now I just don't know. What do I say? "Hey Mom, I have good knews and bad news. Good news is I'm pregnant. Bad news is my husband is cheating on me."

Thanks so much for all your helpful advice and for listening. I don't know what I would do if I had to get through this alone.


Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)
Posted By: Pepperband Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
What do I say? "Hey Mom, I have good knews and bad news. Good news is I'm pregnant. Bad news is my husband is cheating on me."

Yes.
Posted By: wannamoveforward Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 07:05 PM
Quote
I am starting to worry about the effect all this stress will have on my baby, not to mention my two sons.



You can do this, just pay close attention to your body's needs. You are going to have to pull it together even if it for short bursts in order to be able to function enough for all 4 of you.
As far as telling mom I think I can turn into a positive form of support. Who better but another mom especially your own can understand what your body needs to be able to get thru in order to have a healthy smiling baby.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
@maritalbliss & wannamoveforward - Thanks for the advice. I am starting to worry about the effect all this stress will have on my baby, not to mention my two sons. Due to my age, I will have a CVS test to make sure the baby is all right. I was so worried about the test and now I don't even think about it. Instead, this is all I think about.

We're planning a trip to my mom's for Easter and I just don't know how I'm going to get through that. I was planning to tell her about the baby then but now I just don't know. What do I say? "Hey Mom, I have good knews and bad news. Good news is I'm pregnant. Bad news is my husband is cheating on me."

Thanks so much for all your helpful advice and for listening. I don't know what I would do if I had to get through this alone.


Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)

Tell your mom what is going on. She may be in a position to help you, at least with emotional support.
Posted By: chrisner Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 07:24 PM
Could your parents help you afford a PI?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 07:34 PM
Originally Posted by chrisner
Could your parents help you afford a PI?

Can you talk to your parents without this blowing up and your H finding out?
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 07:46 PM
My mom is divorced and recently laid off so she can't provide financial help. Although she would let me and my kids move in with her at any point so that is a comfort.

As far as telling her, I'm afraid she would act different around him and might clue him into the fact that I'm on to him. I'm just so sad since I was going to tell her about the baby and then maybe do some maternity shopping. Now I think it might be best if I just keep quiet.

It's tearing me up inside that this is keeping me from being excited about my baby.
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 08:01 PM
Hi Anne,

I think I read that your husband is an attorney and that OW is a potential client? If that is true (meaning he's not lying to you about her potential as a client) then you've got a golden opportunity for exposure once you get your definitive proof.

If he works in a firm (and he's not a solo) I'm sure the partners or his supervising attorney would not appreciate his trying to or bedding a potential client. That would create a HUGE conflict of interest in their representation of the client. It's also a big no no in law firms.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 08:06 PM
Hi princessmeggy,

Yes, WH is a lawyer and I have confirmed via some emails that he is trying to get business from OW. He works in a very small firm and they are submitting a proposal for this business very soon. One problem with his firm is that I suspect his boss is a cheater and wouldn't care about the relationship as long as they get the business. I don't know that for sure, it's just my gut telling me that.

Saturday nigth (the night after his outing with OW and scumbag friends) he was telling me how great it would be to get this business and how it would be so good for us financially because we could move to a bigger house, have better schools for the boys, etc. It's so weird because he was talking all about our future but now I'm starting to get concerned that he might have plans for OW to come in and take my place. She does not have kids and is not married.

Me BW 40
Him WH 39
Married 10 years, together 19
Sons 5,9
I am 7 weeks pregnant
DDay March 20, 2010
Trying to get enough evidence to confront him so we can deal with it and move on (one way or another)
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 08:10 PM
Quote
One problem with his firm is that I suspect his boss is a cheater and wouldn't care about the relationship as long as they get the business.


Why do you suspect that his boss is a cheater?

Why do you suspect he wouldn't care about the relationship?
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 08:16 PM
Why do you suspect that his boss is a cheater?

Why do you suspect he wouldn't care about the relationship?

I seem to remember WH telling me about some rumors floating around the office about boss and some employees. It's a small firm so business is really important. I think he would rather have the business than worry about anything else. I'm guessin though so who knows?

I'm having trouble figuring out how to quote previous posts. Bear with me while I figure this out. Thanks!
Posted By: turtlehead Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 09:51 PM
Did you say OW is on Facebook? If so, go to her page now before you're blocked and get a copy of all her FB friends' names. Store it somewhere safe and delete your browser history. This will be VERY useful in the not so distant future.

You are doing amazingly well. If you just can't put on a happy face and act "normally" around your WH, tell him you're tired because of the pregnancy or your hormones have you in a tailspin. He'll never question it.

You do need to work hard on a Plan A.
What are his top ENs? How well are you meeting them?
What about LBs, do you have them under control?

It's very hard to suck it up and do Plan A while your spouse is wayward but the thing is you have to show them that marriage with you is more attractive than that nasty old skank they're obsessing over. Every LB you commit, he will tell himself how rotten you are and how great OW is. Every EN that you aren't filling is a missed opportunity for you to make deposits in his love bank, when you know she's making deposits. So read up on Plan A if you haven't already, and put on your game face.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 09:56 PM
Boy, I hate to bring this up...

....but talk to your OB about STDs.
Posted By: chrisner Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 10:11 PM
Quote
Saturday nigth (the night after his outing with OW and scumbag friends) he was telling me how great it would be to get this business and how it would be so good for us financially because we could move to a bigger house, have better schools for the boys, etc. It's so weird because he was talking all about our future but now I'm starting to get concerned that he might have plans for OW to come in and take my place. She does not have kids and is not married.


I wonder if she knows he is married? Pretty common.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 10:40 PM
Originally Posted by turtlehead
Did you say OW is on Facebook? If so, go to her page now before you're blocked and get a copy of all her FB friends' names. Store it somewhere safe and delete your browser history. This will be VERY useful in the not so distant future.

You are doing amazingly well. If you just can't put on a happy face and act "normally" around your WH, tell him you're tired because of the pregnancy or your hormones have you in a tailspin. He'll never question it.

You do need to work hard on a Plan A.
What are his top ENs? How well are you meeting them?
What about LBs, do you have them under control?

It's very hard to suck it up and do Plan A while your spouse is wayward but the thing is you have to show them that marriage with you is more attractive than that nasty old skank they're obsessing over. Every LB you commit, he will tell himself how rotten you are and how great OW is. Every EN that you aren't filling is a missed opportunity for you to make deposits in his love bank, when you know she's making deposits. So read up on Plan A if you haven't already, and put on your game face.

Wow, thanks for the tip on Facebook friends. I never would have thought of that.

Thanks for the kind words. I'm still trying to get evidence and then I can proceed. As for EN's, I have no idea. Until just a few days ago, I thought everything was fine and we were doing really well. How do you figure out your WH's ENs? Sorry if this is listed somewhere. I'm still trying to figure it all out. Where can I find the info on LB?
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 10:40 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
Boy, I hate to bring this up...

....but talk to your OB about STDs.

Yes, I already thought of this. It makes me sick but I did think of it. I will have to talk to OB about it.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 10:42 PM
Chrisner - she does know he's married. In fact, he had me add her to our Christmas card list just this year. The fact that I sent a picture of my adorable kids to her makes me sick.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 10:44 PM
Here is a telling quote from today's emails. This was sent to him by his scummy friend who is a huge cheater:

THE TRUTRH IS WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS ON EACH OTHER, ALL OF US. I HOPE WE CAN CONTAIN IT FROM GETTING TO OUR WIVES.

WH did not reply. One of the emails was from WH telling his friend to call him. Wish I could have hear that conversation.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 10:47 PM
Wow, that's a keeper for evidence.

Does he have a blackberry or other smartphone? You can install flexispy and hear the convo's.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 10:47 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Here is a telling quote from today's emails. This was sent to him by his scummy friend who is a huge cheater:

THE TRUTRH IS WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS ON EACH OTHER, ALL OF US. I HOPE WE CAN CONTAIN IT FROM GETTING TO OUR WIVES.

WH did not reply. One of the emails was from WH telling his friend to call him. Wish I could have hear that conversation.

Are you printing these off and/or saving them, anne? This is VERY valuable info.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 10:48 PM
Anne..another thought. Are you erasing your tracks on the home computer? Deleting browsing history so he doesn't know you've been here, doesn't know you're looking for VARs and doesn't know you're into his email?
Posted By: chrisner Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 11:00 PM
Quote
Chrisner - she does know he's married. In fact, he had me add her to our Christmas card list just this year. The fact that I sent a picture of my adorable kids to her makes me sick.


Well, I guess I can officially call her ButterBall now.


What do you know about your WH's sleazy friend's betrayed wife?

Something is clearly not right with your WH and Sleazoid.

Keep you browser clean.


Quote
THE TRUTRH IS WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS ON EACH OTHER, ALL OF US. I HOPE WE CAN CONTAIN IT FROM GETTING TO OUR WIVES.


I think we are getting close to something big soon.
Posted By: Scotland Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 11:03 PM
just be careful. In my attempt to make sure I deleted my browser history I accidentally erased WH's entire profile. He was MAD because he thought I did it on purpose to erase him from my life. Funny thing is that his profile is still on the computer now but only because he did something to the computer so the kids can only play a certain game on his profile.
Posted By: chrisner Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 11:16 PM
Ha! I never heard the term Butter Face before. I finally looked it up.

Here's what I found:

1. BUTTERFACE A girl with an exceptionally hot body but an exceptionally ugly face. Everything but-her-face is attractive.
Damn look at the cans on that girl but her butterface would scare small children and large dogs away.


So Sleazoid told your WH essentially, �Your girl's face could make paint peel but she looks real good on your arm.�
Posted By: Scotland Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/23/10 11:56 PM
Really? You never heard of that? HEHEHEHEHE How old are you? j/k

I have heard that one MANY times.

I have heard other things like, "I would wrap a flag around her head and F her for my country."

I was in Air Cadets and it was predominately male organization. I heard A LOT of disgusting things.
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Here is a telling quote from today's emails. This was sent to him by his scummy friend who is a huge cheater:

THE TRUTRH IS WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS ON EACH OTHER, ALL OF US. I HOPE WE CAN CONTAIN IT FROM GETTING TO OUR WIVES.

WH did not reply. One of the emails was from WH telling his friend to call him. Wish I could have hear that conversation.

Anonymously tip off the friend's W about his adulterous activities.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 01:45 PM
Thanks for all the feedback. It's really helping me. I am keeping track of the emails and printing them. I'm also deleting my history every time I use my computer.

He does not have an iphone or blackberry.

As for the butter face comment, I don't get it because OW is fat.

@ManInMotion - I've been thinking about that. How do I do it without getting caught?
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 01:48 PM
@chrishner - I know the names and approximate dates of three different women the friend has slept with over the past two years. I have an emal address for one and facebook info for another.

I think WH might be real sorry he had his friends meet his OW. It seems like it opened a can of worms for him. Good.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 01:49 PM
Here is a question to anyone who has been in counseling. Is it possible to go before an affair is revealed? Would this do any good or make it worse for me to prove in the long run?
Posted By: Wheels_spinning Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 02:11 PM
My experience with the MC was non-productive while WW was in an A. She did not heed any advice, and blatantly disregaurded everything we would agree to with the MC present. In order to fix your marriage you have to end the A through exposure. Plan it out don't do it in a sloppy angry mess.

I was thinking the wifes of your WH friends, they might want to know their husbands are cheating on them. To everyone out there, could this be a team effort between anne, and the other WHW?
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 02:32 PM
Originally Posted by Wheels_spinning
My experience with the MC was non-productive while WW was in an A. She did not heed any advice, and blatantly disregaurded everything we would agree to with the MC present. In order to fix your marriage you have to end the A through exposure. Plan it out don't do it in a sloppy angry mess.

I was thinking the wifes of your WH friends, they might want to know their husbands are cheating on them. To everyone out there, could this be a team effort between anne, and the other WHW?


So the affair did not come out in counseling? I was hoping that might be an option. I guess I didn't really think so but was hoping. Still trying to figure this all out!
Posted By: Wheels_spinning Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 02:45 PM
I knew about her A, and there were problems previous to counseling. I confronted her about 2 weeks after we went to counseling, but it didn't really change anything. There was no motivation on her part to fix the marriage until I exposed about 2 months later. So far 4 weeks have gone by with no contact with the OM, and she is actively engaged to fix our marriage.

She is counseling by herself, and we are doing MC now...lots of stuff to do.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 02:54 PM
Anne:

Dr. Harley's standard advice is that counseling or coaching won't work while there's an active affair.

I love the idea of narc-ing on your WH's wayward friends. The more eyes you have, the better.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by Wheels_spinning
I knew about her A, and there were problems previous to counseling. I confronted her about 2 weeks after we went to counseling, but it didn't really change anything. There was no motivation on her part to fix the marriage until I exposed about 2 months later. So far 4 weeks have gone by with no contact with the OM, and she is actively engaged to fix our marriage.

She is counseling by herself, and we are doing MC now...lots of stuff to do.

I have decided to go to counseling on my own to deal with my depression and anxiety. If I don't do something, I will go crazy. I think it will help to talk to someone while I try to figure this out.
Posted By: Wheels_spinning Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 03:00 PM
It will help. The Harley's do insist that the BS be on anti-depressents or get counseling so you don't go "crazy". Its tough to see the alien inhabiting your spouses body. It will also help you calm down enough to think logically about your plan to fix your marriage.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by Wheels_spinning
It will help. The Harley's do insist that the BS be on anti-depressents or get counseling so you don't go "crazy". Its tough to see the alien inhabiting your spouses body. It will also help you calm down enough to think logically about your plan to fix your marriage.

Thanks for the feedback. I am calling today.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 03:34 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
Anne:

Dr. Harley's standard advice is that counseling or coaching won't work while there's an active affair.

I love the idea of narc-ing on your WH's wayward friends. The more eyes you have, the better.

Yes, that makes sense. I don't want him in counseling with me if all he's going to do is lie anyway. I'm still at the point where he will deny it to my face if I confront him now. I'm trying to be patient.

as for narc-in on his friends, how do I do it without getting caught?
Posted By: Wheels_spinning Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 03:44 PM
Set up a lunch date with some of the friends wives. If they are friends of yours this would be easy. If they aren't, then you might have to do it without him knowing. Bring them here, share snooping techniques, and evidence. Im sure your hubby and his friends are discussing and using the same hiding techniques.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 03:46 PM
None of us are friends. It wouldn't be at all normal for me to conact any of them. How could I do it without him knowing and without getting caught? Anonymous email? Can my IP address be tracked?
Posted By: Wheels_spinning Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 03:49 PM
Does your husband snoop on you? I doubt it, he is too busy trying to hide his own crap. You can figure something out.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 03:53 PM
I don't think he snoops on me and I opened an hotmail account in order to store emails in there. But, if I use it to contact friends BS or one of his OW's can it be tracked? He works with some IT people who know a lot about IP addresses. I would like to set some things in motion so that more info will come out for me to collect.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by Wheels_spinning
Set up a lunch date with some of the friends wives. If they are friends of yours this would be easy. If they aren't, then you might have to do it without him knowing. Bring them here, share snooping techniques, and evidence. Im sure your hubby and his friends are discussing and using the same hiding techniques.


Hang on. Don't be too quick to expose this site to these women. They may run to their husbands, blabbing about you, your H, this site...the other H's will be spinning like crazy and then your H will be aware of this site. Don't expect these women you don't know to immediately embrace the concepts of snooping, etc.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 04:04 PM
@maritalbliss - I will not tell anyone about this website. The wife would go to her husband and he would lie his way out of it as he has done in the past. I have names which would give her the proof she needs. She has suspected him of cheating before but he was always able to convince her he's not. That would be hard to do if she had names and contact info for the women involved (who, by the way, don't even know the friend's real name).
Posted By: OurHouse Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 04:05 PM
Go to the library...they have computer access. Open another account..yahoo,gmail...etc. and email them from there. You don't even have to identify yourself until you know what their reaction is.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
Go to the library...they have computer access. Open another account..yahoo,gmail...etc. and email them from there. You don't even have to identify yourself until you know what their reaction is.

One problem with that...I live in a different town than the friend's wife so the IP address being traced back to my town's library could be a problem, don't you think? I'm just trying to find a way for this to work without blowing up in my face.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 04:31 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
None of us are friends. It wouldn't be at all normal for me to conact any of them. How could I do it without him knowing and without getting caught? Anonymous email? Can my IP address be tracked?

If you don't want them to be able to identify you, send a letter via registered mail that they will have to use their ID to retrieve at the post office.
Posted By: wannamoveforward Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 05:00 PM
Quote
One problem with that...I live in a different town than the friend's wife


I LOVE the library idea,
If you are concerend about town how far does the friend live ?can you visit that library and send from there.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
One problem with that...I live in a different town than the friend's wife so the IP address being traced back to my town's library could be a problem, don't you think? I'm just trying to find a way for this to work without blowing up in my face.

Go to the nearest big city's library and do it.
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
@ManInMotion - I've been thinking about that. How do I do it without getting caught?

Simple.

1. Create a new GMail or Hotmail e-mail account for the purpose

2. Use the account only from a public connection (WiFI) that can't be traced back to you.

Posted By: ManInMotion Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 05:06 PM
You can also configure your PC to use an anonymous proxy to hide your IP address. Google "anonymous proxy" for more details.

When you configure your PC to use one, send a message to yourself, then check the message headers, to confirm that connection's IP address is not listed in the headers.

Posted By: OurHouse Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by ManInMotion
You can also configure your PC to use an anonymous proxy to hide your IP address. Google "anonymous proxy" for more details.

When you configure your PC to use one, send a message to yourself, then check the message headers, to confirm that connection's IP address is not listed in the headers.


Even better...if you know someone who can 'spoof' your husband's work IP....you can copy/paste the emails and send them along!
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 05:33 PM
Anne --

I suggest holding off on exposing his scummy friends for now.
For one reason: Once one of them gets busted, the rest are going to be wayyyy more cautious. You need to get your spying done, and the proof you need before he senses any danger!

Concentrate on catching your wandering husband.
Work on eliminate any love busters.
Work on meeting his top emotional needs.
Work YOUR plan.

I commend you for exposing what you know to the other betrayed wives -- but I would hold off on that for now. Work on your situataion first. Then after you have confronted your husband and worked out your plan for reconciliation -- then you can inform the other betrayed wives OPENLY and guide them here for assistance.
Posted By: chrisner Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by lexxxy
Anne --

I suggest holding off on exposing his scummy friends for now.
For one reason: Once one of them gets busted, the rest are going to be wayyyy more cautious. You need to get your spying done, and the proof you need before he senses any danger!

Concentrate on catching your wandering husband.
Work on eliminate any love busters.
Work on meeting his top emotional needs.
Work YOUR plan.

I commend you for exposing what you know to the other betrayed wives -- but I would hold off on that for now. Work on your situataion first. Then after you have confronted your husband and worked out your plan for reconciliation -- then you can inform the other betrayed wives OPENLY and guide them here for assistance.



I agree 100% with Lexxxy.

Get your solid proof and work on Plan A.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 05:45 PM
@chrisner and Lexxxy - you are right. I'm going to hold off and see if I can get solid proof. I think things might die down a bit on the emails until the next time he has plans to see her. I'm going to be patient, see a therapist and snoop.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 05:46 PM
Originally Posted by Lexxxy
Anne --

I suggest holding off on exposing his scummy friends for now.
For one reason: Once one of them gets busted, the rest are going to be wayyyy more cautious. You need to get your spying done, and the proof you need before he senses any danger!

Concentrate on catching your wandering husband.
Work on eliminate any love busters.
Work on meeting his top emotional needs.
Work YOUR plan.

I commend you for exposing what you know to the other betrayed wives -- but I would hold off on that for now. Work on your situataion first. Then after you have confronted your husband and worked out your plan for reconciliation -- then you can inform the other betrayed wives OPENLY and guide them here for assistance.

Agree. They should be part of nuclear exposure.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 06:04 PM
I agree too. But that shouldn't stop you from developing a strategy of how you are going to expose to them!
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 06:07 PM
A pregnant gal only has so much energy!

I suggest you focus on 3 things: self-care (pamper yourself!)
and develop your Plan A while also preparing for exposure.

But you can start on 1 and 2 today -- while you wait for evidence.

Do something nice for yourself. (Pedicure. Personal favorite)

Then figure out what made your marriage vulnerable to an affair.
What does OW do for him that is pulling him away from his family?
Often times its an ego stroking.

But I will also say that it seems like men OFTEN cheat when wives are pregnant. So maybe that is at play here too.
Maybe the pregnancy messes with his mind in regard to sexual attraction to you. ?? Just throwing that out there.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 06:57 PM
How do you develop a strategy to expose the A? It's one thing to confront the WH but how do you expose it? What is the typical reaction from WS once A is exposed? Sounds like something that would make them really mad. Can someone brief me or direct me to this info. I know that much of it is on here but this is all so overwhelming and I'm having trouble keeping it all in focus.

Lexxxy - thanks so much. I know men often cheat on pregnant wives and now I'm wondering if anything like this happened during my first two pregnancies. But, from what I can tell, he has been with this woman before my pregnancy so I'm not sure that's it. He doesn't see her a lot. It looks like he last saw her November 5th (about a month before he told me he wanted another baby) and then not again until March 19th. One of the key phrases to him by his friend in an email was "come one you know you are going to try to [censored] her again". Now I am dying to know when exactly it started (I know when they met but when they first sleep together?) and how many times it's been. Really, from what I can tell, he doesn't see her much. I am concerned that could change. She lives very closeby.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 07:07 PM
Quote
Sounds like something that would make them really mad.


hehehe -- an understatement. They go ballistic.
But come on, really? Who should appropriately be "angry" in this situation? The person who was lied to and cheated on -- or the one who got caught?

But they throw an absolute tantrum when exposed. And they follow a VERY predictable script.
"how can I ever trust you now that you told everyone?"
"I was just about to end it."
"this is nobody's business but ours."

blah blah blah.

We'll fill you in on more so you know what to expect when you are ready.

As far as the confrontation goes -- it can go just about any which way. He might be humbled and shamed. He might try to deny. He might try to flip the discussion to you and your snooping (very common...blame YOU for snooping and throw a big fit, rather than admitting what he did.)

For exposure -- its best to do it all at once. Since he is going to throw a monumental hissy fit -- its better to get it all over with at once. Why piss him off over and over again?
Plus he will try to stop you if you do it in little pieces. He will bargain, threaten, plead, cry, (etc. etc.) to prevent you from telling anyone. So just do it without forewarning.




Posted By: chrisner Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 07:19 PM
Anne,

What other changes have you noticed in you husband over the past few months?

Losing weight?
Working out more?
Guarding phone and briefcase?
Withdrawal from you in affection/emotion?
Upgrade in dressing?
New interests?
More nights out without you?

Based on what I've read of the emails he really does not seem that over interested in Butter Face. It's more like a sick big boy game with his friends.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 07:32 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
How do you develop a strategy to expose the A? It's one thing to confront the WH but how do you expose it? What is the typical reaction from WS once A is exposed?
Carrot/Stick thread

This link might answer some of your questions.

Best wishes.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 07:37 PM
Quote
Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.


Exposure is your most effective tool to end the affair !

It is important to SNOOP ~before~ exposure.

There are ways to snoop in order to gather evidence. If you have questions about snooping tactics ... go to the general Questions infidelity forum and begin a thread titled something like: ~~~> I need to snoop. Teach me everything you know!

OK ... once you've snooped and you know there is an affair ... and your spouse refuses to end the affair relationship ... you will hear:

"It's only a friendship."
"You are too controling."
"I love you but I am not in love with you."
"You are too suspicious."
"You are crazy."
"Our marriage never worked."
"I've never been happy."
"Our marriage was a mistake from the start."

TIME for exposure.

WAT has a great exposure thread ... read it

Exposure is NOT to the 2 infidels ... they already know they are in an affair!

You expose to the other betrayed spouse first.

You expose to your family as well as your spouse's family (if appropriate)
You expose to work, or neighbors, or others .... ASK the board for help regarding who to expose to

HOW you expose is important

wording something like:

I am saddened to tell you my sweetie is having an affair. It's been going on for (length of time).He/she refuses to end the affair. I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on my sweetie, please do what you can to get him/her to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.

don't forget these words

swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

you NEVER tell your adulterous spouse you are going to expose

you just do it


Quote
Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Exposure makes the infidel furious

stay calm
breathe

no one can stay furious forever ... being furious is exhausting ... consumes a lot of energy ... let the furious infidel fume and exhaust his/her self

YOU stay cool

You will hear:

"That's it. We are never going to stay married after what YOU did."
"I am moving out now, thanks to you."
"You are getting OP in trouble at home."
"Now our kids will have a broken home thanks to you."

blah blah blah

You respond to all the raging comments: I am still holding out hope for our marriage.

You stay calm

You don't argue

You don't explain

You do not preach

You do not educate

~and~ you do NOT apologize for standing up for truth and marriage and keeping your family intact

YOU calmly re-state your belief that there is hope for the marriage ....

if things get out of hand ... excuse yourself and go for a walk or a drive ...

remember ... exposure makes the already foggy spouse act insane ... but it is temporary


Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 07:43 PM
Thanks Lexxxy. Hopefully I will asking about exposure sooner rather than later.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 07:45 PM
Pepperband - thanks...that is so helpful.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 07:49 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Pepperband - thanks...that is so helpful.

You're welcome.
kiss
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by chrisner
Anne,

Based on what I've read of the emails he really does not seem that over interested in Butter Face. It's more like a sick big boy game with his friends.

I'm starting to think that might be it too. It seems he really doesn't want me to know. In his emails with friend about the picture another friend has of him and BF (Butter Face), WH said: Let him know I have his girlfriend's pictures as well so he should simply erase whatever he has on his phone. Like I said, if I ever see a photo he took Friday night anywhere on line, under anyone's name, I will hand deliver the photos I have to his wife. Enough f*cking around. It isn't funny.

Friend's reply: HE IS KEEPING THE PICS FOR INSURANCE. ITS YOUR BUSINESS DONT F*CKIN DRAG ME INTO IT. THE TRUTRH IS WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS ON EACH OTHER ALL OF US. I HOPE WE CAN CONTAIN IT FROM GETTING TO OUR WIVES.

Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 07:58 PM
Almost forgot to ask...does anyone know how to handle it if your husband is just screwing around for fun and because he can? Can that kind of situation even be fixed? Also, it seems like it would be LOTS harder to prove. Thoughts?
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 07:58 PM
What a great bunch of friends... MrRollieEyes
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 08:00 PM
Anne --

After confrontation and exposure -- you're gonna introduce him to Marriage Builders. Its going to be one of the requirements if he wants to stay married.

(I would love to see you counsel with one of the Harleys -- or attend a MB weekend.)

Then he is going to undergo a profound change in his attitude and understanding of marriage. You're going to have a new marriage with new tools.



Posted By: chrisner Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 08:06 PM
Now I am not advocating this at all but I would sure like to see his face if he came home tonight and you say, �Hun, I got the strangest email today. I did not recognize who sent it but the subject line was, �Anne you need to see this�. There was a picture attached but I couldn�t open the file attachment. Well I just deleted it after that. Probably some spam. I wonder why it had my name though?�

That would let the feces impact the rotary oscillator.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 08:07 PM
Where can I find the General Questions infidelity forum? This site still confuses me. Thanks for everyone's help.

Lexxxy - yes, his friends suck. I'm beginning to think he is no better than any of them. The only difference is he is a father and they are not. I hope you are right about the new marrage part. Honestly, I can't see him getting on board with all these concepts but I guess we'll see what happens. I'm trying to be positive. It's so hard!!! I'm constantly on the verge of a panic attack!
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 08:08 PM
Originally Posted by chrisner
Now I am not advocating this at all but I would sure like to see his face if he came home tonight and you say, �Hun, I got the strangest email today. I did not recognize who sent it but the subject line was, �Anne you need to see this�. There was a picture attached but I couldn�t open the file attachment. Well I just deleted it after that. Probably some spam. I wonder why it had my name though?�

That would let the feces impact the rotary oscillator.

Great minds thing alike. I've been thinking about doing that all day long. The email I wrote in my mind was a little more explicit though.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 08:19 PM
I bet you would see some REALLY interesting emails tomorrow if you did it....
Posted By: chrisner Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by lexxxy
I bet you would see some REALLY interesting emails tomorrow if you did it....

There's nothing like a wayward in panic mode.

It's like the smell of napalm in the morning.



Quote
The email I wrote in my mind was a little more explicit though.

Less is usually more.
Posted By: chrisner Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 08:31 PM
There is blood in the water and the sharks are starting to turn on themselves.


Quote
WH said: Let him know I have his girlfriend's pictures as well so he should simply erase whatever he has on his phone. Like I said, if I ever see a photo he took Friday night anywhere on line, under anyone's name, I will hand deliver the photos I have to his wife. Enough f*cking around. It isn't funny.

Yeah right. Tell him to drop his gun while I continue to aim at his head.


Friend's reply: HE IS KEEPING THE PICS FOR INSURANCE. ITS YOUR BUSINESS DONT F*CKIN DRAG ME INTO IT. THE TRUTRH IS WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS ON EACH OTHER ALL OF US. I HOPE WE CAN CONTAIN IT FROM GETTING TO OUR WIVES.


I am not sure there will be any more double dates.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 08:35 PM
Originally Posted by Lexxxy
I bet you would see some REALLY interesting emails tomorrow if you did it....

That's what I thought but then I also thought it might make him nervous and more careful.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 08:36 PM
@chrisner - yes, the sharks are swimming chum. You would think some of them might realize it's not all worth it but what do I know? What's most ironic is that the friend with the pics has been caught by his wife a few times so obviously she doesn't care. And they don't have kids. I wonder if WH is beginning to realize that he is the one with the most to lose.
Posted By: wannamoveforward Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 08:41 PM
May be its just me,
But I am just wondering,

if your H is POTENTIALLY having an A or is on the slippery slope from an EA to a PA ...

is it not better to CONFRONT him sooner rather that later so that it can be stopped in its tracks, before its too late.

SO he MIGHT deny it. That will be the first time a WH has done that. dramaqueen

I guess I just dont understand what concrete proof like pictures with a P.I. or walking in on the act will do.
IMO if its walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then...
At the very least your H has poor EP's in place and the sooner you 2 can have an O&H discussion about this the sooner they can begin to protect your M from this or any future A's.

Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 08:45 PM
@wannamoveforward - it appears to me he's had sexual contact with this woman more than once (i.e., friend asking him in the email if he was going to [censored] her again). I think it might be just sex and that he's doing it for fun. I want more proof before I confront him because I don't want to reveal how I'm getting my info and I don't want him to be able to lie and explain it away as WHs will do in these situations.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 08:45 PM
Originally Posted by wannamoveforward
May be its just me,
But I am just wondering,

if your H is POTENTIALLY having an A or is on the slippery slope from an EA to a PA ...

is it not better to CONFRONT him sooner rather that later so that it can be stopped in its tracks, before its too late.

SO he MIGHT deny it. That will be the first time a WH has done that. dramaqueen

I guess I just dont understand what concrete proof like pictures with a P.I. or walking in on the act will do.
IMO if its walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then...
At the very least your H has poor EP's in place and the sooner you 2 can have an O&H discussion about this the sooner they can begin to protect your M from this or any future A's.

Because it will drive him underground. It won't necessarily stop the A. And - even worse - these boys seem to thrive on drama. What more dramatic than a BS confronting her wayward?
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 08:47 PM
Anne --

I wouldn't ever assume that a betrayed wife doesn't care.
More likely is that said scumbag did a magnificent sales job to convince her that she's crazy for suspecting anything.

We call that gaslighting around here.

The waywards always have a ready excuse, or a way to twist the meanings, or a perfectly innocent explanation -- that always makes the betrayed feel like they were totally in the wrong to suspect.

Or the waywards try anger at the snooping tactics as a way to disarm the betrayed. "how dare you access my private email..."
while completely ignoring the bigger offense...

I think its far better for you to know EXACTLY what you are dealing with so that those manuevers can't be used on you.

And I think eventually these other wives should know exactly what the boys-club has been up to....
But for now, use your energy on your situation!
Posted By: wannamoveforward Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 10:08 PM
Quote
@wannamoveforward - it appears to me he's had sexual contact with this woman more than once (i.e., friend asking him in the email if he was going to [censored] her again). I think it might be just sex and that he's doing it for fun. I want more proof before I confront him because I don't want to reveal how I'm getting my info and I don't want him to be able to lie and explain it away as WHs will do in these situations.

THAT is called having an Affair.
For fun for sickness for boredom for love, just beacuse....
what ever the reason, the act is still the same.
So what are we waiting for toe tap

If I suspected, I guess I would not be able to be as PATIENT and calm as you are being.
I would have stared knocking down some walls, buts that just me.
Perhaps this proof gathering process has its merits.
IMHO its just delaying the inevitable D day.
Posted By: wannamoveforward Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 10:14 PM
Quote
Because it will drive him underground. It won't necessarily stop the A. And - even worse - these boys seem to thrive on drama. What more dramatic than a BS confronting her wayward?


Does that mean that once there is absolute proof the A will stop ??

NOT .....

These "Bad boys" need to make a choice to either remain M to women who unwilling to accept this kind of cr*ppy behavior and its up to the women to step up and scream that this behaviour is UNACCEPTABLE to them.

The need for drama is why plan A is most effective cause it cuts out on the LB's the DJ's and leaves the drama at the door. The WH is so shocked by the rational BS that any drama on their part just makes their actions seem more insane.
Posted By: Scotland Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 11:10 PM
Anne wants to make sure that she has irrefutable evidence that her WH can't worm his way out of.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/24/10 11:39 PM
Anne...would be great if you could find a story online or a movie to rent, or somehow something similar to this situation...that you could then bring up with your WH as in a "geez, what is this world coming to...can you believe this?"

And see how he reacts.
Posted By: turtlehead Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/25/10 12:10 AM
Anne, exposure notes.

It's amazing how they all sing the same song when exposed. Don't let that faze you. In fact, since you know it's coming you might be able to convince yourself to find it entertaining. Would help with the stress if you could do that.

Also, get your ducks in a row and expose all at once. Trickle exposure is not nearly as powerful as all-at-once exposure.

And, finally, remember that exposure is not an act of revenge. It is an act of love and protecting the marriage.

--

--Exposure targets
Anyone with influence over your WS or the marriage. WS' parents, siblings, best friend, children if they're over 4. OP's siblings, parents, spouse. Your priest or similar if you're religious. Their employer if they work together. Work exposure should be done *in writing* to the head of HR, the CEO, and WS' boss. All of them should know the others were copied; this makes it harder for them to toss the letter into the trash and forget about it.

--Exposure message
Use a formal letter for work exposure. Everything else is short and sweet: "OP and WS are having an affair. I love WS and I am committed to doing whatever it takes to repair our marriage and make it better than ever. I'd appreciate any advice you might have." The exposure message is not vengeful; it is a message of love.

--No warning
Do NOT threaten to expose, do not tell WS you're going to expose. Just do it. If WS has advance warning, they will tell their friends and family "We are having trouble in our marriage. BS is controlling and angry. BS won't talk to me, won't listen to me. BS is possessive and jealous, and accuses me of insane things. Sometimes I'm scared for my physical well-being, (s(s))he's changed that much. Thank goodness I have friends to talk to, otherwise I don't think I could bear the abuse. OP has been especially helpful in offering insights into how a member of the opposite sex would see things. I just hope we can make it but I'm not sure we can." How do you think your exposure is going to sound after an oscar winning performance like that?

--Exposure after-effects
Your WS is going to be furious. You will hear predictable things like "I can never trust you again. I was going to dump OP and reconcile but you've blown any chance of that. I hate you. I'm filing for D." Don't EVEN pay attention to this stuff. Your WS is just angry because the super-fun super-secret affair is suddenly looking downright tawdry and the fun is turning into a nightmare. Just ignore most of it. If your WS tries to talk about divorce, say "I don't do divorce, I do marriage." Then change the subject. If your WS tries to pick a fight, tell them you'd very much like to discuss things when you can both be calm and rational, and leave the room if you have to. If she says things like "How could you do this?!" tell her you'll do whatever it takes to save your marriage.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/25/10 02:05 PM
Originally Posted by Lexxxy
Anne --

Or the waywards try anger at the snooping tactics as a way to disarm the betrayed. "how dare you access my private email..."
while completely ignoring the bigger offense...

I think its far better for you to know EXACTLY what you are dealing with so that those manuevers can't be used on you.

And I think eventually these other wives should know exactly what the boys-club has been up to....
But for now, use your energy on your situation!


Yes, that is exactly what he will do. And I'm sure he will pretend to be sad that I don't trust him. You're right, I need more proof and I plan to get it. Thanks!
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/25/10 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by wannamoveforward
[quote] So what are we waiting for toe tap

If I suspected, I guess I would not be able to be as PATIENT and calm as you are being.
I would have stared knocking down some walls, buts that just me.
Perhaps this proof gathering process has its merits.
IMHO its just delaying the inevitable D day.

If you think I am calm, then you misunderstand. I am in a constant state of panic. I am waiting for more proof. If I go to him with what I suspect, he can explain it away and I'm back to square one. I don't want that to happen. The people on this board have helped me to be patient and not fly off the handle. For that, I thank everyone.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/25/10 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by Scotland
Anne wants to make sure that she has irrefutable evidence that her WH can't worm his way out of.

Thanks Scotland, that is exactly what I'm doing.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/25/10 02:12 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
Anne...would be great if you could find a story online or a movie to rent, or somehow something similar to this situation...that you could then bring up with your WH as in a "geez, what is this world coming to...can you believe this?"

And see how he reacts.

How strange, I actually did that the other night. He played along about how wrong it is to cheat and how he would never do it. Can't believe a word this man says.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/25/10 03:46 PM
I'm looking for a decent GSP. Any suggestions or are they all pretty much the same? Any ideas on where to hide it? He's started talking about going to the gym again and OW lives closeby. He used to work out in the a.m. but now he's talking about doing it in the evening. Yes, I know it's a red flag and might give me a great opporunity to get the proof I need. I need that GPS.

Thanks everyone. You've all been so helpful.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/25/10 03:56 PM
Can you find a VAR w/ GPS?
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/25/10 04:53 PM
I'll check and see if I can find something like that

OW just became Facebook friends with WH's best friend. God this makes me sick.
Posted By: Scotland Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/25/10 05:21 PM
It will get better, eventually.

How are you doing? What are you doing to get that evidence? You need to get moving so you get on to the next level. You need to get that evidence so you will feel like you are doing something productive.

Have you made your list of people who you will expose to?

What are your WHs top EN? Have you eliminated LBs?

Don't forget the carrot part of Plan A too. There is a carrot and a stick for a reason. You need your M to be more inviting than the A.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/25/10 05:35 PM
@Scotland - I am trying to find a VAR and/or GPS (checking the local stores as I don't want to order online). I've checked email every day but all is quiet since the threats back and forth to show the pictures they have on each other.

I'm working on the list.

How do you figure out your WH's top EN? Working on eliminating LBs and making M inviting (which I honestly thought it was).

I fear and dread the next step but I do know it's necessary. Also, I don't want to try to move into it before I have the proof I need which I don't.
Posted By: Scotland Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/25/10 05:43 PM
MOST men's top ENs are SF, Admiration, RC, DS and PA. There is also affection, conversation, FS, OH, FC.

My WH would not do the ENQ but I know that SF is a TOP need. He would complain about frequency of SF and that i didn't seem "in to it"(sorry TMI). I also believe that admiration is HUGE for him. He always loved the fact that he could make me laugh. I stopped laughing over the passed few years. I know that POSOW finds him funny(he told me).

You should look back over your M and think about the things that your WH would complain about. You may find clues in there.
Posted By: arkhawk1 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/25/10 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I'll check and see if I can find something like that

OW just became Facebook friends with WH's best friend. God this makes me sick.

That is so sad. But, remember, those people are no friends. They are clearly not morally-minded indididuals and probably encourage other bad behavior as well.

My wife's friend added the OM to her Facebook account, too-- right after she deleted me as a friend. Unfortunately there are lots of people like that in the world.
Posted By: Wheels_spinning Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/25/10 05:49 PM
You could try all EN's on him, and see what gets him going. It could be like your own questionaire. My best bet is that he is no different than any other man. My top 5 ENs are SF, conversation, DS, FC, and PA. Notice I share 3/5 of the top EN's for men, but the other EN's are important too.
Posted By: chrisner Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/25/10 05:52 PM
How soon is he going to start going to the "gym"?

If it's so close couldn't you just drive over to the gym and OW's and check for his car on those nights?

I think the quarrel between the Bad Party Boys Club will start to severely limit you email intel now.



Anne, you have never really said what the state of your marriage was prior to your H becoming wayward. This is important to understand how to do a really good Plan A.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/25/10 06:12 PM
@Chrisner - not sure on the gym. Both the gym and the OW are very close by so I could check it out. However, if he goes late, I would have my kids with me and that might be a problem. But I guess I have to do what I have to do.

The emails were pretty fast and flowing so it doesn't seem like they are afraid to email about it. I think it just died down after the threats and now everyone is busy with the work week.

That's the hardest part. The state of our marriage was fantastic before all this started. We celebrated our 10 year anniversary, decided to have another baby, he took me on two different weekend getaways over the past few months. He said the nicest and romantic things to me on our trips about how happy we are together. And then Friday night happens and he starts acting all weird so I check the email and BAM! The fact that this has happened before is what is hardest to take. I'm starting to think I don't know him at all.

Posted By: crushed4 Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 06:16 PM
I got my VAR at Target it is a Sony and sells for about $60. I also bought a Zoombak GPS there. It requires a year subscription (you can pay it in one payment) but you can get real-time info by logging into your account. Does your husband have carseats in his car? If so, I hid the GPS and recorder between in the carseat under the seat cover. I used the external microphone for the recorder and had it just barely sticking out from the cover. My WH has searched and searched his car for these and has not found them (knock on wood!). HTH!
Posted By: chrisner Re: How do you find the patience? - 03/25/10 06:19 PM
Well just remember adultery attacks just as many good marriages as neglectful ones. At least that is what Harley's experience says.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by crushed4
I got my VAR at Target it is a Sony and sells for about $60. I also bought a Zoombak GPS there. It requires a year subscription (you can pay it in one payment) but you can get real-time info by logging into your account. Does your husband have carseats in his car? If so, I hid the GPS and recorder between in the carseat under the seat cover. I used the external microphone for the recorder and had it just barely sticking out from the cover. My WH has searched and searched his car for these and has not found them (knock on wood!). HTH!

No car seats. Any other suggestions? Thanks for your help - this board is saving me rigth now.
Posted By: Scotland Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 06:36 PM
Anne- I am going to give you a little padded 2x4 right now. It seems like you are trying to get US to tell you what to do and when we ask you a question you say, "I am trying." The day that I bought my VAR, I drove 45 minutes to the mall where I thought I could buy one and I did. I also placed a keylogger on the computer that same day. If you need to get the evidence, you are going to have to DO IT. We can't come through the computer and do it for you. You have to not only TRY you have to DO.

In his car, where would YOU put the VAR(when you GET one)?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 06:57 PM
Scotland, I'm doing the best I can while dealing with almost constant morning sickness and taking care of my two sons (one of whom is home with me most of the day). Having to work around being sick all the time and my son's schedule limits the time I can spend on trying to snoop. Also, I don't have total access to WH's computer so I have not been able to install a keylogger. I will just as soon as I can get him out of the house without it (it's a laptop and he usually takes it with him). I have one on our home computer but he does not use it. That I check his email every day does not mean I can get on his computer any time I like. I am able to check his email from any computer because they have remote access. I'm glad you were able to move so quickly in your situation and I wish I could as well. Believe me when I say I want this to be over. But I can only do what I can. I do appreciate all the advice I've been given. This is foreign territory to me and I'm just trying to make my way.
Posted By: Scotland Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 07:02 PM
I understand that, but you also have to understand that we are trying to help you but we can't do the work for you. It is frustrating at times to be reading your thread and see how you could be doing something and you aren't. I want you to have a GREAT life. I would love it if you could also save your M. It's not that I think you don't have a lot to deal with. We all have reasons why we CAN'T do something. You need to find the reasons that YOU CAN. I hate to see you stuck in the beginning because you can't find a VAR. People have told you where to buy one. Believe me, I suffered some MAJOR 2x4's myself and I learned from them and grew from them.

It's like that old saying, "Give a man a fish, and he will eat for 1 day. Teach a man to fish, and he will eat for a LIFETIME."

That's all I am saying.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 07:04 PM
On the remote access...she has a valid point, Scotty. I have remote access to my work computer and if I were logged on at work and someone logged on remotely, I'd get kicked off.
Posted By: Scotland Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 07:07 PM
I know about that. I am not talking about the emails. She said those stopped anyways. I was talking about the VAR and GPS.

I know that this is foreign territory. It was foreign to all of us here when we first got here. You have to learn and grow through this process and sometimes the 2x4's help nudge you in the right direction.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 07:13 PM
The VAR is my next project. So far, every store I've been to has not had voice actived recorders, only manual voice recorders which does not help me. I was unable to go anywhere else today as I had an ultrasound this morning. This is something I can not do with my young son with me because he is a huge talker and would tell daddy "we went shopping and mommy bought something". I can not risk that. Just as soon as I have another chunk of time to myself, I will go out and get the VAR. It's very frustrating that every place I have been to does not have what I am looking for. Very frustrating. In the meantime, I am doing what I can by checking email and Facebook. It's not that I'm doing nothing. I know I ask a lot of questions because my mind is not clear and I'm having lots of trouble focusing. I do not expect anyone to do the work for me - how could they? I thought I had simply been asking for advice. Yes, I know I have been asking for lots of it and I am probably asking the same questions over and over. Again, my head is not clear. I really don't feel that there is anything I can do right now that I'm not already doing. For some of these things to happen, I simply have to wait for the opportunity. I do remember everyone telling me to be patient and not blow it. That has been my main focus and something that is very hard for me to do. I start counseling on Monday which I hope will help.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
On the remote access...she has a valid point, Scotty. I have remote access to my work computer and if I were logged on at work and someone logged on remotely, I'd get kicked off.

Thanks for the tip. I always wondered what would happen if I logged in while he was logged in. I always make sure he has already left working before checking.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 07:21 PM
Originally Posted by crushed4
I got my VAR at Target it is a Sony and sells for about $60. I also bought a Zoombak GPS there. It requires a year subscription (you can pay it in one payment) but you can get real-time info by logging into your account. Does your husband have carseats in his car? If so, I hid the GPS and recorder between in the carseat under the seat cover. I used the external microphone for the recorder and had it just barely sticking out from the cover. My WH has searched and searched his car for these and has not found them (knock on wood!). HTH!

Careful - he might remove the carseats and throw them in the trunk when he's out and about. (Nothing romantic about carseats when you're seducing OW puke )

Anne, what are your sleeping arrangements? Do you share your marital bed with WH? Get up at 1 - 2 AM, tell him you're feeling queasy, might throw up, whatever, and that you're going to sleep on the couch so you don't disturb him. (Or the den, or wherever the closest area to the laptop is.)

If he has the laptop near him by the bed, toss and turn for a bit and then ask him sweetly if he would mind sleeping on the couch, or wherever, so you can spread out to maybe get over the queasiness. If he takes the laptop with him, you've gained nothing, but that's a smoking gun that there is intel on there that he doesn't want you to see. Double your efforts to get the keylogger on it.

The object here is to get him away from his laptop long enough to install the keylogger. If he takes it with him, you've lost nothing in trying.

Does he ever keep the laptop in his car? Get into it overnight while he sleeps.
Posted By: RookKev Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 07:33 PM
Anne,

Wow, so much drama to get absolutely nowhere. Look at it from my perspective for a minute. No matter what your husband tells you at this point, you will never believe him. In your mind, forever, he has had at least one affair. The reason for it is right before you, and it is the same reason for every affair that happens, selfishness.

The real question is, what are you going to do when you find out your 'proof'? Honestly, the proof is irrelevant, it's not going to do you any good, in your marraige or court. What are you planning for the future? You can forgive and try to save your marriage... you can forgive and get divorced... you can not forgive and have those two same outcomes. It's really up to you. What you need to know, is you can't control him, or force his hand on anything.

At this point, I would really evaluate just having a conversation about his actions, and what you feel about them. His responses and words are meaningless, you already know he is a lawyer, I mean liar (sorry, couldn't resiste that one). It just seems like to much stress about trying to catch him, and well, catching him doesn't even matter anymore. What happened in the past needs to be confessed, cacthing him won't really comfort you in the future....

For now, you are in this on your own (on your own meaning no help from your husband), turn to friends and family to help you stay strong to your decision. Stick around the people that will support your decision, without trying to burn your friendships with those in opposition. They don't need to understand your reasoning, it is your decision. Make up your mind about what you want, and then go that direction...

-hang in there
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 07:53 PM
@maritalbliss - thanks for the tip. I honestly never thought about getting up in the middle of the night and doing it. This is why I like this board - someone can always point out the obvious things you sometimes fail to see. I am going to try this first chance I get (he doesn't always bring computer home from work with him).
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 08:01 PM
@RookKev - I do see all the points you are making and thank you for the feedback. I do feel it is most important to get 100% proof so that he can't deny it and try to say it's either some elaborate prank played by his friends or me just being paranoid since I'm pregnant. Only if I have proof will I feel comfortable in confronting him and trying to get him to move forward with me. Given any chance to deny, I think he will. I think it's a bit early for the conversation you suggested and I don't want to tip him off to what I know. Once I get VAR or am able to follow him to OW's house during a "workout" then I will be able to have that confrontation. Thanks again for your feedback. I do appreciate hearing from people with a different viewpoint.
Posted By: RookKev Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 08:04 PM
So, how long do you search for proof? When are you comfortable with what you currenlty know vs what events have already unfolded before you? as well as his explanations.

I KNOW where you are at. We get focused on the 'game' of catching someone, and take our eyes off of what US betrayed spouses can't realize in the moment... WE have the power. My post was trying to indirectly to get you to realize that.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
@maritalbliss - thanks for the tip. I honestly never thought about getting up in the middle of the night and doing it. This is why I like this board - someone can always point out the obvious things you sometimes fail to see. I am going to try this first chance I get (he doesn't always bring computer home from work with him).

All it takes is to be betrayed once. wink

He doesn't always bring the computer home...hmmm...how do you know that for sure? Is there a chance the computer is in his car and he just doesn't bring it in? Can you get into the car in the wee hours of the night/morning and check it? How about when he's in the shower, getting ready for work? You've got a good few minutes to get into the car while the water's running and he won't be able to hear car doors open and close (my worry in my sitch, and I found that the running water covers up quite a bit of sound.)
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by RookKev
So, how long do you search for proof? When are you comfortable with what you currenlty know vs what events have already unfolded before you? as well as his explanations.

I KNOW where you are at. We get focused on the 'game' of catching someone, and take our eyes off of what US betrayed spouses can't realize in the moment... WE have the power. My post was trying to indirectly to get you to realize that.

I feel like I need to give it another week or two. I also feel like the time is helping me to become more rational and think about what I want. If I had said something a few days ago, it would have been a mistake because I was out of my mind. I still am but I am learning some control.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 08:14 PM
@maritalbliss - thanks again for stating some obvious ideas I never even thought of. If I don't see it tonight, I will find a way to check the car. I feel so silly for not thinking of some of this myself.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
@maritalbliss - thanks again for stating some obvious ideas I never even thought of. If I don't see it tonight, I will find a way to check the car. I feel so silly for not thinking of some of this myself.

We've got your back, gf. smile
Posted By: RookKev Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 08:50 PM
Right, and I"m not really advising you rush to the conversation either. Just trying to help out.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 09:13 PM
A couple of things, while I'm thinking about it:

Unless you bought two licenses for that keylogger that you've got on your home computer, the same installation program won't work on the laptop. You'll have to purchase another installation key.

If you go out to snoop in his car while he is showering, just plan to look to see if the laptop is there. You just want to confirm that he's keeping in his car. (My money is on that.) Don't necessarily plan to install the keylogger while he is showering, unless you know for a fact that he a taking a long-enough shower. You don't want to get busted. Just confirm that it's there.

Also, take a note out with you. The note should be some little sweet note "Honey, just a note to let you know I'm thinking of you - have a great day!" So if you DO get busted, you can pretend you were just putting a surprise note in his car for him. "Oh, sweetie - you caught me! I wanted to surprise you with a note!" Leave it on the driver's seat when you're done snooping, in case he catches you walking back in to the house.

Once you find the laptop, plan to put the keylogger on when you know you've got time.

The perfect scenario is if your H takes 20 minute showers, spends half an hour in the bathroom getting ready for work, that kind of thing. Don't forget how he had the laptop placed in his car, which way the handle lays, which way he had it zipped, so you can leave it exactly how you found it.

Posted By: Scotland Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 09:25 PM
Anne- I in no way intended that you don't ask for advice on here. That is precisely what this is for. I meant to say to you that you needed to not just TRY to do these things, you needed to IMPLEMENT a PLAN AND EXECUTE some steps towards that plan.

There are a lot of people reading your thread, and there are a lot of people who are trying to help you. Sometimes you need the nudge. I needed it(them) and it helped. People don't just help you by telling you what you WANT to hear, they help by telling you what you NEED to hear.

I think that a better answer for the question about how long you were going to keep snooping could have been, "I will snoop until I get enough proof to EXPOSE." You could get that in 2 days not weeks.

Are you in Plan A right now? Is that what you are doing? I am just curious.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 10:47 PM
Originally Posted by RookKev
Right, and I"m not really advising you rush to the conversation either. Just trying to help out.

Thanks. You really are helping and I appreciate it so much!
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 10:50 PM
@maritalbliss - wow, thanks so much! You have helped me a great deal and I truly appreciate it. No computer today. I checked in the car and it's not there so that will have to wait. Since it's his work laptop, I will have to download separate keylogger software. I'll have to wait for another opportunity.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 10:56 PM
Thanks Scottland. I have my plan and I am putting it into place. Thanks to al the wonderful people on this board who have been so kind and willing to help.

My answer to the question about how long was based on my estimation of how long I think it will take me to get proof to expose. For me, that is not likely to happen in two days. This is based on many factors that are out of my control. Despite what's going on, I really don't think he sees or talks to OW very often but his chat about starting at the gym made me wonder if he was planning to pick up the pace. Regardless, I'd rather get what I need and feel confident about it than rush it.
Posted By: arkhawk1 Re: I Need Help! - 03/25/10 11:59 PM
Anne,
I really applaud your patience. I don't think I could wait it out. Trust me, though, waiting until you have proof is the right way to go. There is nothing a wayward will not lie about. Keep coming here for support if you need it.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/26/10 02:02 PM
Originally Posted by arkhawk1
Anne,
I really applaud your patience. I don't think I could wait it out. Trust me, though, waiting until you have proof is the right way to go. There is nothing a wayward will not lie about. Keep coming here for support if you need it.

Thank you. The support I get here is keeping me going.
Posted By: saynomore Re: I Need Help! - 03/26/10 02:13 PM
Anne,

I am so sorry that you find yourself in this situation. I applaud your patience and restraint. I calmly and cooly waited and watched my WH for almost two weeks before I confronted him and I confronted with no LBs and few tears.

I monitored his cell phone, read all of his text conversations with OW, listened to his voice mails and searched his car nightly while he slept.I was up all night anyhow. (-: I was able during that time to watch his moods and reactions and begin my Plan A. It was the most difficult thing I have ever done in my life. My prayers are with you.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/26/10 04:11 PM
Thank you Say. It is difficult and I'm sorry you had to go through this too. I don't wish this horrible feeling on anyone (except WH & OW - they deserve to feel this kind of pain). The time is helping me to remain calm and rational. I have my plan and I am working on it at a pace which makes me feel comfortable and in control. Your support and kind words mean so much. Thank you again.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/29/10 12:58 PM
I have a question for those who have used keyloggers. Did you set up a separate email for the reports to be sent to?

Also, any ideas how to find secret bank accounts? I think he might have one I don't know about.

Thanks.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/29/10 03:32 PM
I got my VAR! I'm going to figure out how to use, find a good spot in his car and see what happens. No luck on keylogger software. Haven't had the opportunity...yet.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: I Need Help! - 03/29/10 03:41 PM
hurray

attagirl...
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 03/29/10 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I got my VAR! I'm going to figure out how to use, find a good spot in his car and see what happens. No luck on keylogger software. Haven't had the opportunity...yet.

Very good! Consider trying it in your own car to figure out the best place for reception.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/29/10 03:54 PM
I think I even figured it out already! I'm not exactly tech savvy and find these things intimidating. Right now, I'm feeling a bit empowered and like I have at least some control. That has to be a step in the right direction!
Posted By: Scotland Re: I Need Help! - 03/29/10 04:06 PM
hurray dance2

Good job getting the VAR. As far as the keylogger, I am not a good person to tell you about that. When I installed the keylogger on our computer, my WH found it after 2 hours and deleted it. I got what I needed in that time(and I am somewhat relieved that I didn't have more to read, what I did get KILLED me).

When you do listen to the VAR or read anything that you find, please don't confront right away. I know you managed holding it in with the emails, but the things you read/hear may be VERY hurtful. Come on here and vent. Get it all out so you can continue the Plan A. We will help you develop a plan.

Good Job.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/29/10 04:16 PM
Thanks Scotland. All the advice and kind words really mean so much. I will come here and vent about whatever I hear/read so I can remain calm and focused so I can continue to work on Plan A.

Wow, you got what you needed in two hours?!?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/29/10 04:17 PM
Now to find the best location for it in his car...

OW's birthday is tomorrow. I really hope I can get the VAR in there and running so I can hear what goes on tomorrow. I've been checking her status on Facebook every day. She really doesn't seem to have much of a life. She's one of those people who spends LOTS of time on Farmville, Cafe World, etc. (not to offend anyone who plays around on those but she really does spend a lot of time doing those Fackbook games). She sounds very whiney too.
Posted By: Scotland Re: I Need Help! - 03/29/10 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Thanks Scotland. All the advice and kind words really mean so much. I will come here and vent about whatever I hear/read so I can remain calm and focused so I can continue to work on Plan A.

Wow, you got what you needed in two hours?!?

Well, I don't know how long it actually took until he said, "That's why I want to do other things with you so it's not just about sex." That was KILLER. He also said, "You looked cute today babe, thanx. Oh come on, you look cute everyday. I love you. What? You want me to want it MORE. How could I want it more I am already like a horny teenager but that's okay my Babe is a horny teenager too." Just retelling this is making my stomach turn. I haven't looked at the actually things that were emailed to me for about 4 months. It will always be burned into my brain. That's why I am warning you about it. You will be hurt by what you read and hear. I just want you to be prepared.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 03/29/10 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by Scotland
Well, I don't know how long it actually took until he said, "That's why I want to do other things with you so it's not just about sex." That was KILLER. He also said, "You looked cute today babe, thanx. Oh come on, you look cute everyday. I love you. What? You want me to want it MORE. How could I want it more I am already like a horny teenager but that's okay my Babe is a horny teenager too."

puke I was just getting ready to eat lunch. I didn't need all those calories, anyway.
Posted By: Scotland Re: I Need Help! - 03/29/10 05:09 PM
Sorry MB. I already ate lunch. laugh
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 03/29/10 05:13 PM
Originally Posted by Scotland
Sorry MB. I already ate lunch. laugh

Chocolate-covered ants and a Diet Dr. Pepper, perhaps? grin
Posted By: Scotland Re: I Need Help! - 03/29/10 05:14 PM
On pasta of course HAHAHAHA
Posted By: Going_Forward Re: I Need Help! - 03/29/10 05:16 PM
Anne, be sure to use an email WH has no access to when you get the keylogger. You will receive the occasional keylogger offer via email.
Also, be sure to turn the commputer off a couple of times, to be sure your security program doesn't pick it up. Mine detected it the first time I turned the computer off, so there is where you will put in the rule to ignore it, if you aren't prompted to do so earlier. spector) Good luck, you can do this GF
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/29/10 05:19 PM
Scotland - wow, that IS hurtful. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. No one deserves that kind of pain. I do want to thank you for sharing it with me. I know it wasn't easy but it does give me some idea of what I might be in for once I hear the recordings. Reading his emails hurt so much. Whatever I find out this way will likely be magnified 10X. My goal is to hold off on any confrontation until A) I have solid proof and B) I can remain calm. It's not going to be easy but it does help to know I can come here to vent.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/29/10 05:20 PM
Thanks Going Forward.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/30/10 01:04 PM
I put the VAR in the car. For anyone else who used one, how did it make you feel? I am constantly worried that it will fall out or be discovered. I don't know what would happen then.

Also, WH might be on to the fact that I read emails. He and the dirtbag friend were emailing about how the friend is possibly interested in OW. It sounded set up to me.

Just needed to vent about my concerns a little. Thanks for listening.
Posted By: schtoop Re: I Need Help! - 03/30/10 01:15 PM
I know how you feel. I've bought a VAR but haven't had the guts to put it in the car, yet.

I'm 2.5 months in since D-day and have been through half a dozen rounds of discovering contacts and the ensuing confrontations.

She claims that it is done now and that all she needed was closure. But, I still have that nagging feeling that we all know too well.

All the confrontations about cell phone logs, prepay phones, and sneaking around have really exacted a toll from us. I was prone to be preoccupied with the snooping, and she felt like a "caged animal."

Bottom line, if she was to find the VAR in her truck it would be catastrophic to any recovery. On the other hand, if she is cntacting the OM that too would be catastrophic.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 03/30/10 01:32 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I put the VAR in the car. For anyone else who used one, how did it make you feel? I am constantly worried that it will fall out or be discovered. I don't know what would happen then.

Also, WH might be on to the fact that I read emails. He and the dirtbag friend were emailing about how the friend is possibly interested in OW. It sounded set up to me.

Just needed to vent about my concerns a little. Thanks for listening.

Yes, there is the possibility that it will fall. But DON'T worry about that! You are on a mission. If you've velcroed it securely you'll be in good shape.

Also, if you remember, I wondered about the emails being a set-up. But if you're remaining consistently pleasant and acting 'ignorant' (and we all know you're not, so go for the Academy Award)that is immaterial. Just wait for the intel on the VAR.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 03/30/10 01:34 PM
Originally Posted by schtoop
Bottom line, if she was to find the VAR in her truck it would be catastrophic to any recovery. On the other hand, if she is cntacting the OM that too would be catastrophic.

This should in no way hinder your R. Why do you believe that? If she is truly remorseful she shouldn't care that you are doing what it takes for your healing. She should be an open book - I'm concerned that she feels like a 'caged animal'. There should be no independent behavior interfering with your R.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/30/10 03:21 PM
Maritalbliss - I do remember you questioning whether the emails were a set up. I don't think they started out that way but may be now. I'm praying that all goes well with the VAR. I guess if he does discover it, I will go ahead and confront with what I have. The phrase "He who has nothing to hide, hides nothing" is what I'm operating on.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 03/30/10 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Maritalbliss - I do remember you questioning whether the emails were a set up. I don't think they started out that way but may be now. I'm praying that all goes well with the VAR. I guess if he does discover it, I will go ahead and confront with what I have. The phrase "He who has nothing to hide, hides nothing" is what I'm operating on.

Yep. That's all you can do, and there's nothing wrong with that. If you've got to confront sooner rather than later, then so be it.
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 03/30/10 03:43 PM
Quote
He and the dirtbag friend were emailing about how the friend is possibly interested in OW. It sounded set up to me.


Whaaat? They're talking about passing her around now?

Okay........ewwwwwwwwww
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/30/10 05:31 PM
Chrishner - I don't know what's going on. They are either passing her around or he's trying to throw me off track since I know that dirtbag friend is a huge cheater. I'm hoping the VAR will give me some much needed answers. Today is OW's birthday. Dirtbag friend said in yesterday's email to WH that maybe he should take her out for a birthday drink. He also reminded WH to say happy birthday to her to which WH replied "When's her birthday?" I don't know what is going on!

Thanks, as always, for listening. I think I would be going crazy if I couldn't vent about all this.
Posted By: Scotland Re: I Need Help! - 03/30/10 05:45 PM
I was scared about WH finding the VAR and he DID. So I didn't get anything from that from the car. I then took it and put it in the house right near the computer and BAM_O I got him on the phone with her while I was at work. No waste in money there. What's the worst thing that he will do if he finds it? What is the worst thing that will happen? Don't worry about that. You are doing what is BEST for YOU and your M. Good Work.
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 03/30/10 09:09 PM
Originally Posted by anne
They are either passing her around.....

Yuck. puke Brings a whole new meaning to "Pass the butter."
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/31/10 01:52 PM
OMG chrisner...I can't believe you actually made me laugh about this but you did!!! You are too funny!

Good news...the VAR worked. Bad news, it didn't find anything. Yesterday was very routine. Lots of radio, a call to work, a call to me. Nothing else. If he talked to OW on her birthday (yesterday), then it was from his office. Wasn't able to get to his phone so I couldn't check it. He did write a birthday wish on her Facebook wall and then removed the statement so I wouldn't see it (the notification that would say "WH wrote on Butter's wall"). The message only said "Happy birthday my friend" so it's a huge red flag that he wouldn't want me to see that.

Since I pulled the VAR out of the car yesterday to listen to it, I was unable to get it back in there so I won't get anything from today. I can get it back in there tomorrow and I'll see what happens.

No luck with keylogger. I've been reading up on the issues of installing something like that on a corporate computer and I'm just not sure I want to do that. It may take longer this way but I think I can get what I need.

WH's dirtbag friend has started emailing me to see how I'm doing. He used to do that but it's been months since I've heard from him. Curious that I'm hearing from him now and I'm 100% certain it's to see how I will react to him so they can figure out if I know anything or not.

That's all for now. Sorry that there are no real updates. Things are kind of in limbo right now. I think this is giving me some insight as to what I'm dealing with though. I had suspected that he was seeing this woman only here and there and they were (for lack of a better term) occassional [censored] buddies. Not that it makes it any easier to handle but that does seem to be what I could be dealing with. It will also make my discovery a longer process because there doesn't seem to be lots of contact. I could be wrong but that's what it looks like now. Anyone else ever dealth with an A of this nature?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 03/31/10 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Good news...the VAR worked. Bad news, it didn't find anything. No luck with keylogger. I've been reading up on the issues of installing something like that on a corporate computer and I'm just not sure I want to do that. It may take longer this way but I think I can get what I need.

I should have mentioned - try to be patient and leave the VAR alone for a few days. That way you can collect intel over time, which is much more damning. Get it back into the car as soon as you can and plan to leave it there 3-5 days.

WH's dirtbag friend has started emailing me to see how I'm doing. He used to do that but it's been months since I've heard from him. Curious that I'm hearing from him now and I'm 100% certain it's to see how I will react to him so they can figure out if I know anything or not.

You can pretty much take that to the bank. Something is definitely afoot. Cut them off at the pass - be your sweet, normal self. Waywards and their buddies are notoriously naive when it comes to thinking they're pulling the wool over someone's eyes.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/31/10 04:09 PM
Thanks marital bliss...great advice. I actually do plan to leave it in there longer next time. I really just wanted to verify that it was working and in a good location. I can also download the contents on my computer and then get it back in the car right away. It's going back in tonight and staying there until Friday. We will be out of town this weekend so it doesn't need to to back until Monday. I'm investing in lots of batteries because it seems to go through them quickly.

I'm sending a very sweet email to the dirtbag friend but not until tomorrow when the VAR is back in the car. WH does talk to dirtbag on the way to work and on the way home fairly often.
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 03/31/10 04:12 PM
Quote
WH's dirtbag friend has started emailing me to see how I'm doing. He used to do that but it's been months since I've heard from him.



Hmmmmmmm..........that's creepy.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/31/10 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by chrisner
[quote] Hmmmmmmm..........that's creepy.

Not to mention cold and calculating...
Posted By: turtlehead Re: I Need Help! - 03/31/10 05:45 PM
Just chiming in to say you're doing really well. This stuff is exhausting.

I love the names you've given to your cast of characters. "Butter", "Dirtbag Friend" - very descriptive!
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/31/10 06:59 PM
Thanks Turtlehead. I couldn't have made it this far without the help of everyone on this board. You're right, it is exhausting. For the first week, I couldn't focus or think about anything else. At least now I'm doing what I need to do and I'm feeling a little more in control.

My "cast of characters" is quite an amusing bunch. I guess I need a more descriptive nickname for WH since those around him are so "colorful". Of course I do have names for him but none of which I could repeat on this board without being censored...
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/31/10 07:03 PM
Okay, I just had to share this. Dirtbag Friend (maybe I should call him DF) blogs under a fake name on Facebook. This is what he posted a few days ago:

why are tiger and jesse the bad guys. Did anyone ever take the time to think why. I bet those broads dont know how to give blowjobs . They should concentrate more on how to keep a husband satisfied and a little less time crying about the cheating. Come on people. Its a fact all men cheat. These women need to wake up

What a sicko, huh?
Posted By: _SOL Re: I Need Help! - 03/31/10 07:18 PM
Pondscum.

"All men cheat." Certainly not all. Well, all pea-brained self-centered, insecure, uncaring POS men do.

I really resent this type of thinking as a BH who has always been 100% faithful in my M, as well as any previous relationships from high school to my M.

What a real winner this guy is. I'm guessing DF is single? Can't imagine anyone stupid enough to be with a guy like this.
Posted By: _SOL Re: I Need Help! - 03/31/10 07:20 PM
Anne- just a side thought...

Maybe WH hangs with a lower bunch so as to feel better about himself by comparison?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/31/10 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by SickofLimbo
Pondscum.

"All men cheat." Certainly not all. Well, all pea-brained self-centered, insecure, uncaring POS men do.

I really resent this type of thinking as a BH who has always been 100% faithful in my M, as well as any previous relationships from high school to my M.

What a real winner this guy is. I'm guessing DF is single? Can't imagine anyone stupid enough to be with a guy like this.

DF is not single. He has been married for 8 years and has been cheating on his wife for three years. She came close to catching him but doesn't want to believe it.

I'm glad to hear that not all men cheat. I'm sorry you are a BH. No one deserves to have this happen to them.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 03/31/10 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by SickofLimbo
Anne- just a side thought...

Maybe WH hangs with a lower bunch so as to feel better about himself by comparison?

That is an interesting thought. I've been thinking about this non-stop. WH has been friends with Dirtbag since high school. Best friends. This was the best man at our wedding who gave an amazing toast. It hurts to think about it. Part of me just feels that if these are the kind of people that WH wants to surround himself with then maybe I don't have a place in his life. Seriously, it's like I don't know who he is.
Posted By: _SOL Re: I Need Help! - 03/31/10 07:42 PM
Wow. Obviously DF is justifying his actions with those facebook posts. Guess he can't just rise above his baser instincts and it's interesting how he blames the BS. He's not worth any further thought from me.

I won't attempt judge the character of your WH as I don't really know him or your whole sitch. What I do know that like my WW, these waywards become somebody different when they start the A. It's that whole 'alien' theory and it sure seems to fit.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: I Need Help! - 03/31/10 07:46 PM
Save a screenshot of that to show Dirtbag's wife later.

Myself? I would be tempted to create a fake account JUST for the purpose of responding to that really stupid remark.

Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 03/31/10 07:54 PM
Anne,

What is the situation at home? Are you in Plan A right now?

What has your husband�s demeanor and attitude been these past couple weeks?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/01/10 03:02 AM
Originally Posted by SickofLimbo
I won't attempt judge the character of your WH as I don't really know him or your whole sitch. What I do know that like my WW, these waywards become somebody different when they start the A. It's that whole 'alien' theory and it sure seems to fit.

I don't even know him anymore. He's not the man I married. Maybe he was like this all along and I never knew it. Right now I'm questioning everything.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/01/10 03:31 AM
Originally Posted by Lexxxy
Save a screenshot of that to show Dirtbag's wife later.

Myself? I would be tempted to create a fake account JUST for the purpose of responding to that really stupid remark.

I've been saving info for Dirtbag's wife when it comes to that.

It's tempting to start a fake account and respond to Dirtbag's blogs but I don't want to get off track.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/01/10 03:38 AM
Originally Posted by chrisner
What is the situation at home? Are you in Plan A right now?

What has your husband�s demeanor and attitude been these past couple weeks?

His demeanor hasn't changed. He acted a bit strange last week but is back to normal. I'm working on getting evidence and the carrot part of Plan A. Still checking those emails and hopeful more will turn up. I don't think he's on to me with that yet. The VAR is back in the car with fresh batteries. There was some contact via email between he and Dirtbag today and since the weekend is coming up, I am hopeful that they will talk in the car tomorrow or Friday. I think I will learn alot from what is said when he talks to him. Dirtbag seems to know him better than I do. Wish me luck!
Posted By: Scotland Re: I Need Help! - 04/01/10 03:48 AM
I hope you get something tangible too. I don't hope that your WH is actually doing anything, but I just hope that you can KNOW so you can get past this step and on to the next one. Keep it up. You are doing GREAT.
Posted By: crushed4 Re: I Need Help! - 04/01/10 03:51 AM
Not sure if you want to invest in another VAR, but I had 2 so that when I was listening/reviewing one the other was in the car taping. That way I was sure that at least I was monitoring the time that WH was in the car. Yes, they do use a lot of batteries!

I previously shared that I hid the VAR within one of the carseats. Wouldn't you know that a few days later, my WH discovered the microphone! Thank goodness I had removed the taperecorder earlier in the day. Of course he wanted to know what it was. I told him it had been there a long time (not a lie, but I also didn't offer that I was still recording him). Now I have to find another hiding place!


Good luck and I hope that you can get the information you need to move forward one way or another.
Posted By: Scotland Re: I Need Help! - 04/01/10 03:54 AM
t/j Crushed4, I do remember you sharing where your hiding place was and someone warning you that he might find out. Wow EERIE. t/j done
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/01/10 12:49 PM
Originally Posted by Scotland
I hope you get something tangible too. I don't hope that your WH is actually doing anything, but I just hope that you can KNOW so you can get past this step and on to the next one. Keep it up. You are doing GREAT.

Thanks Scotland. You have been a great source for advice and support for me. I really appreciate it.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/01/10 12:51 PM
Crushed - I do remember you talking about the car seats being a good spot. How strange that he found it shortly after we talked about that. Have you confronted him? If you don't mind my asking, why do you still have a VAR? Just trying to get an idea of what I might be in for in the future. Thanks.

Also, I did consider getting another for that purpose. I'm going to see how it goes with the one I have and take it from there.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 04/01/10 01:03 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by Lexxxy
Save a screenshot of that to show Dirtbag's wife later.

Myself? I would be tempted to create a fake account JUST for the purpose of responding to that really stupid remark.

I've been saving info for Dirtbag's wife when it comes to that.

It's tempting to start a fake account and respond to Dirtbag's blogs but I don't want to get off track.

My two cents - don't respond to his blog, even anonymously. You're right - it would just serve as a distraction. Plus, the chance is good he would figure out that it's you.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/01/10 01:06 PM
Maritalbliss - you're right. And Dirtbag does not deserve any of the time and energy that I should be spending on my marriage.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/01/10 05:48 PM
How do you get through the really bad days? Today has been very difficult.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 04/01/10 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
How do you get through the really bad days? Today has been very difficult.

Get up. Stretch. Take a walk. Go to the library and pick out a recipe book that has some ethnic, nifty recipe in it that you'd like to try. Then make the meal and eat it.

Go to see a movie (without adultery in the plot.) Plant some flowers. Pull some weeds. Buy new rugs for the kitchen. Buy dishtowels to match. Heck, throw in some new neat-colored cooking utensils while you're at it.

But mainly, get up, get moving. hug Anne
Posted By: crushed4 Re: I Need Help! - 04/01/10 07:21 PM
I was there when he found the microphone. His hand brushed against it when he was getting one of the kids out of the carseat. UGH! Although we are trying to recover, I am still snooping to make sure there is NC. He broke NC so many times after the DD#1 in August. Also, this was not WH first A. I'm probably obsessed but I need to know he is not lying to me anymore. Although I'm not able to monitor his conversations when he is at work. It really sucks!
Posted By: turtlehead Re: I Need Help! - 04/01/10 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
How do you get through the really bad days? Today has been very difficult.
Definitely get moving.

Also if you're a reader get a book by your favorite author (without adultery in the plot - harder to do than you might think unfortunately).

Take a deep hot bubblebath with candles and your favorite music.

Clean out a closet or the fridge.

Sorry it's a rough one.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/01/10 10:55 PM
Thanks for all the advice. It helps to know the people care. It's just been a rough day. My morning sickness is really bad today (I'm 8 weeks pregnant) and I have been asking myself the tough questions all day long. I found another bad email but it's still not proof and could be explained away (and would if I were to confront now). Just having a tough time today and broke into tears several times today. Tomorrow will be better.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 04/02/10 01:09 AM
Originally Posted by RookKev
Anne,


Honestly, the proof is irrelevant, it's not going to do you any good, in your marraige or court.


What happened in the past needs to be confessed, cacthing him won't really comfort you in the future....

I must say that the above wasn't true for me. I got LOTS of proof and it did help me. First it gave me clarity. Never again would my Wxh be able to gaslight me. Never again would I think maybe I should stick it out. And second, my proof did help me in court. It is what got me total custody of our child and the visitation schedule *I* wanted.

Not all waywards confess.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 04/02/10 01:23 AM
Anne, I just read through your thread and want to say (((Anne)))

I gathered evidence for 2 weeks (with a keylogger). Then, because I wanted to keep my keylogger source I hired a PI and we busted him out that way. (at least he thot that was how I found out). I filed for divorce, got him to sign a separation agreement, and he moved out of the house. Then I continued to gather evidence from the keylogger for another 6 weeks. It was AGONIZING. However, at the end of that 6 weeks I had proof that he had also had an affair with my young cousin 7 years earlier. When I read that info I nearly fell to my knees and shouted 'Thank you GOD for this gift of clarity!'

My point of telling you all that is that I DO understand what you are going through. It is tough to put on a ignorant face and keep gathering. And I know what you mean about having your chid aroudn who might tell your WH that you wee on his computer that day. I had to keep all of that from my son who was 9 at the time.

Just hang in there. Use your pregnancy as a smoke screen if you can't stand to look at him.....tell him you just feel so bad you need to go to bed or whatever.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 04/02/10 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I know what you mean about having your chid aroudn who might tell your WH that you wee on his computer that day.

Er, um, hey Anne - that method might have worked for SmilingWoman, but I'd suggest you stick to just logging keystrokes, not peeing on his computer. That could damage it.

Sorry, SW - couldn't resist! dance2
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/02/10 02:40 PM
Thanks SmilingWoman. I'm sorry for what happened to you and how you got here. I agree about getting 100% proof when you can. The wait is difficult but if I confront too early, not only will he lie his way out of it but I will lose my access to his email which has been my most valuable source. As difficult as it is, waiting and trying to get the evidence I need is the best thing I can do.

Dirtbag friend continues to email me about stuff and how the four of us (he and his wife and me and WH) should get together. Now, we NEVER go out. I also happen to know that Dirtbag is emailing with OW (Butter) about he, WH and Butter going out again soon. He is really playing some sick games and I resent being part of them. I hate that I have to play along. It sickens me that he is getting a kick out of all of this. The worst part is that WH is playing a role in any of it.

After reading what I just wrote, it's hitting me how twisted this is. I really do need to get to the bottom of it and get myself out of this sick situation one way or another.
Posted By: Scotland Re: I Need Help! - 04/02/10 03:02 PM
So WHATCHA GONNA DO ABOUT IT?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/02/10 03:24 PM
Everything I'm doing already...keep listening to the VAR, checking emails and try to get the keylogger on there (computer is VERY hard to get at these days). Just not a lot of info lately - maybe because he had a busy work week.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 04/02/10 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Everything I'm doing already...keep listening to the VAR, checking emails and try to get the keylogger on there (computer is VERY hard to get at these days). Just not a lot of info lately - maybe because he had a busy work week.

Why is it hard to get to? Is he guarding it, or leaving it at the office? Are you still checking his car? He's eventually going to have to bring that laptop home.
Posted By: Scotland Re: I Need Help! - 04/02/10 03:53 PM
If the computer is harder to get to than usual, IT IS THE BEST PLACE TO GET INTEL.

I know it is hard to wait. It is hard to Plan A when you are in limbo like that. What Plan A things are you going to do today? What colour are your toes?
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 04/02/10 04:12 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I know what you mean about having your chid aroudn who might tell your WH that you wee on his computer that day.

Er, um, hey Anne - that method might have worked for SmilingWoman, but I'd suggest you stick to just logging keystrokes, not peeing on his computer. That could damage it.

Sorry, SW - couldn't resist! dance2

Hilarious! LOL
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/04/10 09:54 PM
Question for those of you who had success with VAR's. Did you save incriminating conversations on a CD or just take notes once you listened to them?
Posted By: _Larry_ Re: I Need Help! - 04/04/10 10:29 PM

I would buy extra tapes and save the originals.

Larry
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/04/10 10:30 PM
It's digital so I have to download to CD.

Another question...when you confront, do you reveal the source of your information?
Posted By: Scotland Re: I Need Help! - 04/04/10 10:47 PM
NOPE. You try to keep your sources for as long as you can so you can continue to use them. Let us know what you found and we can advise you on the best way to confront WH.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/04/10 11:01 PM
Okay, that is what I thought. I don't have anything new but I think that will change soon. I was able to check his phone and it's been almost a week since he's talked with Dirtbag friend so he's due for a conversation (his last conversation with him was the day BEFORE I put the VAR in the car...RATS!). He usually talks on the way to or from work. He doesn't keep voicemails or texts on his phone unless they are business related but I'll keep checking that when I can. Keep your fingers crossed that I get something good this week. I'll let you know just as soon as I do!
Posted By: _SOL Re: I Need Help! - 04/04/10 11:10 PM
I've been using VAR for a couple months. I still haven't really gotten anything 'good', but you never know. If I did, I would download to my computer/CD. I probably need to get a couple more to put in other rooms. There are times I can hear her talking in her 'isolation chamber', but I think my battery dies before because I haven't picked up those conversations yet.
Posted By: Scotland Re: I Need Help! - 04/04/10 11:44 PM
I had a problem with the mic picking up the TV more than WH and he was sitting right beside it. I didn't need to hear the Lord of the Rings trilogy on VAR, we own it. HAHAHAHA.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/05/10 01:53 PM
I think most of his conversations take place in the car and in his office. There is nothing I can do to get the conversations in his office. The next time I go out, I will leave a VAR in the house near where he might use the phone and see what happens. He doesn't talk on the phone in the house when I am home (I know, I know...red flag).

WH has an extremely busy week at work (I verified this by looking through emails). When he's busy, it tends to be quiet. From what I can piece together, he saw OW mid-July, early November and mid-March. Based on that, it might take longer than I thought to get some proof. I'm willing to wait. It sucks but I can do it. Confronting too early would be a big mistake.
Posted By: Scotland Re: I Need Help! - 04/05/10 02:44 PM
Yes, confronting too early without SOLID proof would be a bad thing. On the other hand, you won't be able to pull off a SOLID Plan A forever. DrH usually recommends that women only do Plan A for 3-4 weeks. Some can do it longer but not indefinitely. From someone who did Plan A, let me tell you, "I BELIEVE HIM." Letting only your GIVER come out is really hard when your ENs are not being met.

I know you may have to sit around and wait to find something on the VAR, is there any other way for you to snoop? Brainstorm. laugh
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/05/10 03:14 PM
Scotland - as always, you make some good points. The timeframe of Plan A is something I never thought of. I do need SOLID proof and I need to find a way to get it. I have no choice but to wait for something to happen with the VAR and emails but I do need to find another way to get some info so I can move forward.
Posted By: Scotland Re: I Need Help! - 04/05/10 03:17 PM
Well, now you know why I was being so pushy. laugh It was for you.

So how has your Plan A carrot part been going? Did you eliminate your LB? How are you going to meet your WH's top 3 ENs TODAY?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/05/10 04:25 PM
Not pushy, just helpful and I appreciate it.

Honestly, the carrot part is not going so well. I am having a hard time just acting normal and trying to be a good mom to my kids. I feel like I've been using all my energy on trying to find out what's going on and on simply keeping it together for my kids. I had several bad days last week but I did make it through. I do know how important it is though and I'm determined to work on it. So, my goal for today and in the days to come is to focus on the carrot part of Plan A. I can do it...I know I can.

I've been reading about EN's and LB's and am gaining a greater understanding of them. It was all so much to take in at first but now I'm able to get a grasp of what Plan A really means and why it's so important.

That aside, I am very frustrated that I haven't been able to get anything solid. I hate this state of limbo. Knowing I'm doing what I can does help. So does making my plan. But, as you know, it's all so hard to deal with. But I am dealing the best way I know how. I am determined to keep it together and have a better week.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/08/10 02:46 PM
I wish I was posting about the progress I'm making but instead I have a little vent about technology. I had been using a VAR which worked like a charm last week (even though it didn't catch anything of value to me it did record conversations). After being out of town for the weekend, I put in fresh batteries and secured it in WH's car Sunday night. I was not able to get to it until last night only to find out it only recored 6 MINUTES from the past THREE DAYS!!! WH has a LONG commute so it should have been HOURS! I am so annoyed! I didn't have any time to trouble shoot so I re-set it and put it back in and am hoping it works. I can get to it tonight and will hopefully figure out what happened. I guess one scenario is that he found it and messed with it. Time will tell!

I have a serious question though. Although nothing is happening with my situation, I have obtained some very valuable information about WH's Dirtbag Friend's relationships. I know many of you recommended that at some point, I let Dirtbag's BS know what's going on so I'm keeping a separate file for when that day comes. However, I have recently found an email address for one of his OW's (he has 2 or 3 right now) who doesn't even know his real name. I've read emails between them (Dirtbag forwarded them to WH) and she really seems to like him and believes his many lies. Now that I can contact her, should I let her know his real name, address, etc.? I heard about anonymail and anonemail which lets you send an anonymous email that can't be traced without a subpeona (or so they say). Any of you have any experience with this? I would send it from the library or other location and not from my home computer. Thoughts? I feel really bad for this woman and could potentially get her out of a very bad situation. But, as selfish as it sounds, I don't want to jeopardize my own investigation. Any insight would be appreciated.

Also, the carrot part of Plan A has been much improved this week. I'm proud to say I'm doing much better at it. Thanks for all the advice. You've all been so helpful. Now if I can get that darn VAR to work!!!
Posted By: _SOL Re: I Need Help! - 04/08/10 02:56 PM
I don't have any experience with the anonymous email thing but I do with the VARs.

Have you checked the settings to make sure it is set on Voice activated? Did it record continuously while the car was empty? Sometimes when you change the batteries it may go back to the factory default settings.

Do you still have the instruction manual that came with it? After putting in new batteries, test it out yourself before placing again. I usually say the date into it and then wait a few seconds to see if it goes into 'standby' and then speak again to ensure it picks it up again. I do this each time I place it.

Keep working your plan! Keep doing the best you can with your 'carrot' efforts. We all make mistakes. Just continue to try to improve. You are doing fine.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 04/08/10 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I wish I was posting about the progress I'm making but instead I have a little vent about technology.

My cheap one did the same thing. How much did you pay? Maybe you need to reposition it? Did you try it out in your car first, for best placement?


I have a serious question though. Although nothing is happening with my situation, I have obtained some very valuable information about WH's Dirtbag Friend's relationships.

I would make copies of those emails and save them, but not act on them right now.

Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/08/10 03:35 PM
Yes, the voice activation was on and it went into standby mode. Not sure what happened but I hope to get it figured out tonight when I have more time. I thought I reset all the functions when I changed the battery but I could have missed something. It seemed to be working fine when I put it in there. That's why I think WH could have found it but I hope not!

I've been reading the emails between his Dirtbag Friend and one of the women he's seeing. The lies he's telling her are just out of control. I don't know how he keeps it strait. And she really seems to like him. Sad that she knows nothing about him at all. I want to let her know what's going on but not sure it's worth risking something happening to my own situation (like making WH more careful or putting him on guard). I feel stuck in a moral dilema for sure.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/08/10 03:40 PM
Maritalbliss - I got a really nice digital one by Olympus which had great customer reviews. It worked really well last week. It picked up everything (believe me, I had to listen to hours of radio chatter in order to get through everything). It was in a good spot, secrure, etc. That's what makes me nervous is that it worked for a week and then didn't as of Monday. I'm going to be able to troubleshoot it tonight and hopefully find out what happened. If it no longer works then I will have a red flad that WH found it.

Good advice about my other situation. I am saving everything, making notes and tracking what I can. I know sometimes I'm overly cautious but I don't want to move too fast, especially on the part of the situation that doesn't pertain to me. I'm not used to being so selfish but that's what I need to be right now.

Thanks for the great advice.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 04/08/10 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Yes, the voice activation was on and it went into standby mode. Not sure what happened but I hope to get it figured out tonight when I have more time. I thought I reset all the functions when I changed the battery but I could have missed something. It seemed to be working fine when I put it in there. That's why I think WH could have found it but I hope not!

I've been reading the emails between his Dirtbag Friend and one of the women he's seeing. The lies he's telling her are just out of control. I don't know how he keeps it strait. And she really seems to like him. Sad that she knows nothing about him at all. I want to let her know what's going on but not sure it's worth risking something happening to my own situation (like making WH more careful or putting him on guard). I feel stuck in a moral dilema for sure.

I doubt he found it. If he was cool enough to NOT confront you with it, he sure wouldn't only let it capture 6 minutes.

I agree with MB....don't reveal what you know yet....but definitely keep a file to bust Dirtbag wide open and alert all his victims...but just when the time is right for you.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/09/10 02:55 AM
@SmilingWoman - I certainly hope he didn't find it but he is really cool about things and can hide his emotions very well (even better than I thought as I'm learning). He's also turning out to be an expert liar. There was a change of plans tonight so I couldn't check it - I will have to wait until tomorrow. For now, I keep my fingers crossed and pray! This is a setback for sure but one I have to deal with.

I am going to keep quiet about Dirtbag's activities but continue to add to my file. It's too bad I can't get this kind of information about my own situation. I got lots more info on Dirtbag today, including the fact that there is yet another woman in the picture. This is the 6th woman (that I know of) since November 2008. The red flag for me is that WH told me a few days ago that nothing is going on with Dirtbag and that he isn't seeing anyone. He used to tell me what was going on but that has all changed. I realize I no longer know the man I'm married too. I wish I had known about this before I got pregnant.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/10/10 02:55 PM
Looking for some recommendations for VARs. The one I have (a digital by Olympus) seems to be unreliable. I needed to buy a second one anyway but had intended on buying the same one. Now, I don't think that's such a good idea and think this one needs to be my back-up. I left it in his car from Wednesday night through Friday night. It recorded everything up until his commute home (I checked his phone and there was a call made that would have been helpful to hear on his way home). I'm not sure what's going on with it. Any suggestions for my next purchase? I don't mind spending a lot on it (the one I have cost $70 so I'm perfectly happy to spend that much or more on one that will be more reliable).

A question about settings. Since it's going to be in there for a few days at a time, should I change the record mode to one that is more suitable for long term recording? Since it records up to 70 hours in High Quality recording, that is what I have it set on. Maybe I need to change it to standard or long term recording? I read over the brochure and it wasn't very helpful so I was hoping someone had exerience with this. Whent it works, it's great. But it doesn't always work. Ugh!
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 04/10/10 03:47 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Looking for some recommendations for VARs. The one I have (a digital by Olympus) seems to be unreliable. I needed to buy a second one anyway but had intended on buying the same one. Now, I don't think that's such a good idea and think this one needs to be my back-up. I left it in his car from Wednesday night through Friday night. It recorded everything up until his commute home (I checked his phone and there was a call made that would have been helpful to hear on his way home). I'm not sure what's going on with it. Any suggestions for my next purchase? I don't mind spending a lot on it (the one I have cost $70 so I'm perfectly happy to spend that much or more on one that will be more reliable).

A question about settings. Since it's going to be in there for a few days at a time, should I change the record mode to one that is more suitable for long term recording? Since it records up to 70 hours in High Quality recording, that is what I have it set on. Maybe I need to change it to standard or long term recording? I read over the brochure and it wasn't very helpful so I was hoping someone had exerience with this. Whent it works, it's great. But it doesn't always work. Ugh!

Good grief. I would think a $70 VAR would work. I would get my money back on that one...

Hope someone has a good recommendation for a good one.

How is it going? Anymore emails?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/10/10 04:08 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Good grief. I would think a $70 VAR would work. I would get my money back on that one...

Hope someone has a good recommendation for a good one.

How is it going? Anymore emails?

I am really frustrated with this thing. One day it works, the next day it doesn't. You're right, I should get my money back. I've been researching consumer reviews and hope to find a better one.

No luck with the emails. WH is very busy with work right now (I have verified this). Dirtbag Friend keeps emailing him but it's all about his situation and WH has not been responding much (typical for him when he is so busy). Because of my crappy VAR, I missed two conversations they had this week. Darn it!

The kids are back in school Monday so I can do some VAR shopping and hopefully get a good one! Would love some recommendations from everyone!
Posted By: crushed4 Re: I Need Help! - 04/11/10 01:20 AM
I use a Sony (about $60 at Target) and it works really well. I use the high microphone setting on it. I change the batteries every night or switch to a different VAR.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/11/10 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by crushed4
I use a Sony (about $60 at Target) and it works really well. I use the high microphone setting on it. I change the batteries every night or switch to a different VAR.

Thanks. There are a number of Sony models at the store near my house. I'm buying a second this week. For now, the crappy one is back in his car simply because I don't have another one. I hope it works! Looks like I'll have better opportunities to check on it this week too and maybe not have to leave it in there for so long. Thanks again!
Posted By: arkhawk1 Re: I Need Help! - 04/11/10 09:03 PM
I use the Sony one. $39 at Walmart.
I use the VOR setting so it will sit in the car all day but only record when someone is talking. I take it out every evening. Keep an eye on the battery level.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/12/10 03:42 PM
Thanks for the recommendations. I'm getting a new one tomorrow. Hopefully it will work better than what I have!
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/16/10 04:21 PM
Big development in my situation although it's not exactly the one I was hoping for. While it's damaging, it's not exactly proof but something I might need to act on. Let me explain.

I received an email today from what is obviously a made up email account. Someone (I'm assuming one of WH's dirtbag friends) made up a fake email account using a combination of WH's and OW's names (think "Brangelina" or "Bennifer"). From this account, someone sent me an email and the subject was "your husband". The email says "f*cked OW i have pictures of them together." That is all it says and there are no attachments. In case you don't remember, I do know from reading his emails that there are pictures of WH and OW from the night they went out in March.

My guess is that one of the dirtbag friends got mad at WH and did this to get back at him or as a joke. WH's dirtbag friends are notorious for playing stupid and sometimes sick pranks on one another. As far as I know WH does not participate too much in that. Some of the emails that I saw about the pictures one of them has of WH were threats going back and forth about if those pictures ever showed up anywhere.

So, here are what I feel my options are:

1. Do nothing and try to get more solid proof.

2. Show it to him and then pretend to believe him when he tells me it's not true. In this case, I would hope to get some proof from the emails and phone calls that would follow in the upcoming days.

3. Show it to him and tell him I know. The problem with this scenario is that I don't have enough proof and I risk him figuring out how I know what I know and then becoming better at covering up his activities.

I'm not looking for anyone to tell me what to do. Instead, I am hoping I can get some insight from some of you as to what you feel are the pros and cons to each of my options. As of right now, I am leaning towards option #2 which I feel might lead to me getting actual proof of what's going on. Thoughts? Opinions? All views are appreciated.

You have all been so great about making me see things clearer. Hoping you can help me this time too!

There is some good news in my life. I got to hear my baby's heartbeat today. While my circumstances are not ideal, it was nice to feel some joy today.
Posted By: turtlehead Re: I Need Help! - 04/16/10 04:26 PM
You forgot option 4:
Get the pics, then expose.
Do NOT tell your H about this. Yet.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 04/16/10 04:27 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Big development in my situation although it's not exactly the one I was hoping for.

So, here are what I feel my options are:

1. Do nothing and try to get more solid proof.
This one gets my vote. You've already invalidated the email yourself, by saying it could be a joke. WH will say the same thing, go underground even farther than he is, and track down whoever tried to get back at him. And make no mistake - this kind of email is no prank. Someone is seriously p*ssed at your H. And I'll bet he's waiting for a reaction from your H. When he doesn't see one, he may send pictures that will give you evidence.

2. Show it to him and then pretend to believe him when he tells me it's not true. In this case, I would hope to get some proof from the emails and phone calls that would follow in the upcoming days.
I won't get mad at you if you go this route. smile I can understand your thoughts. But I suspect it's the last time you'll be able to collect intel. He'll be knocking himself out to cover up because you've been tipped.

3. Show it to him and tell him I know. The problem with this scenario is that I don't have enough proof and I risk him figuring out how I know what I know and then becoming better at covering up his activities.
Don't consider this one. You *don't* know. Even if you strongly suspect.

I'm not looking for anyone to tell me what to do. Instead, I am hoping I can get some insight from some of you as to what you feel are the pros and cons to each of my options. As of right now, I am leaning towards option #2 which I feel might lead to me getting actual proof of what's going on. Thoughts? Opinions? All views are appreciated.

You have all been so great about making me see things clearer. Hoping you can help me this time too!

There is some good news in my life. I got to hear my baby's heartbeat today. While my circumstances are not ideal, it was nice to feel some joy today.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 04/16/10 04:29 PM
And btw, congrats on hearing the baby! You are blessed, in spite of the other circumstances going on right now.
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 04/16/10 04:45 PM
Quote
I received an email today from what is obviously a made up email account. Someone (I'm assuming one of WH's dirtbag friends) made up a fake email account using a combination of WH's and OW's names (think "Brangelina" or "Bennifer"). From this account, someone sent me an email and the subject was "your husband". The email says "f*cked OW i have pictures of them together."


You could respond to the email by saying you do not believe it and to send the pics. ??
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 04/16/10 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by chrisner
You could respond to the email by saying you do not believe it and to send the pics. ??

But - what if WH had his friend send the email to guage her response? If she doesn't tell him about it after responding to it, he'll know she's collecting intel.

And if she doesn't respond to it at all he may think that she'd never consider him having an A and deleted it, so he's free to continue.

Just a thought.
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 04/16/10 04:56 PM
Check the email message header and compare to the other emails sent by scumbag.

Check Message Header
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 04/16/10 05:23 PM

Quote
But - what if WH had his friend send the email to guage her response?


Well I am not one to possibly understand the workings of a wayward's logic but it would be hard to imagine an adulterer giving out actual accurate hints about their adultery to the betrayed spouse in order to see if they are being suspected.

But I suppose anything is possible.
Posted By: turtlehead Re: I Need Help! - 04/16/10 05:31 PM
I'd reply to the email and say "Really? Send them."
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 04/16/10 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by chrisner
Quote
But - what if WH had his friend send the email to guage her response?


Well I am not one to possibly understand the workings of a wayward's logic but it would be hard to imagine an adulterer giving out actual accurate hints about their adultery to the betrayed spouse in order to see if they are being suspected.

But I suppose anything is possible.

This is something that came up earlier in the thread, the possibility that WH and his buddies were up to something like that.

I'm just trying to cover all the possible scenarios in her sitch.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/16/10 07:56 PM
Wow, thanks for all the really great advice. The only trouble is that I'm now more confused than ever. Which is actually a good thing because many of you brought up points I didn't even think about. Which is exactly why I wanted to hear from all of you.

I didn't really consider the idea that showing it to him would make him more careful but that is a really good point. As for it being a set up with WH involved, my gut says no but it's possible (as we all know, anything is possible) and something I do consider. Also, that's a very excellent point that he may be doing it to see if I'm snooping and me not responding might be a red flag. So hard to know which of the scenarios is the truth. My guts says dirtbag friends are messing with him either for fun or because they are mad at him. Yes, I know these are some sick people that I am dealing with. I thank you all for (once again) helping me to see the possible outcomes.

If I do show it to him, I would pretend to believe him when he says it's not true (as we all know he will). This, I think will make him feel more comfortable. Right now, I have no idea what to do so keep the advice coming! Whatever I decide, I'm not dealing with it until next week anyway. We have some family stuff planned this weekend and I continue to work hard on Plan A, especially the carrot part. Since I'm so confused about what my next step should be, then this can wait a few days (especially since my next step might be to take no action).

Right now I'm leaning towards responding to the email as someone had suggested and say that I don't believe them and if they have pictures then they should go ahead and send them. I do wish I could get my hands on those pictures. But, if WH is somehow involved, that might not be the right thing to do. I hope the next few days will give me some clarity and help me know what is the right thing for me to do.

More good news for me is that my last OB appointment included a screening for STDs which is standard so I didn't have to request that. Everything came back fine and since there hasn't been any WH/OW contact, that is one less thing I have to worry about for now.

Thanks again for all the great advice. I seriously don't know what I would do if I coudln't come here for help. You all do wonderful work here and I am so thankful I found you.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 04/16/10 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
If I do show it to him, I would pretend to believe him when he says it's not true (as we all know he will). This, I think will make him feel more comfortable. Right now, I have no idea what to do so keep the advice coming! Whatever I decide, I'm not dealing with it until next week anyway. We have some family stuff planned this weekend and I continue to work hard on Plan A, especially the carrot part. Since I'm so confused about what my next step should be, then this can wait a few days (especially since my next step might be to take no action).

Yeah, it might make him more comfortable, but it may also have the undesired effect of making him more careful. Until now he's believed there's absolutely no hint of suspicion on your part and no reason for you to be suspicious. That'll change when he hears about the email, regardless of whether or not you can make him believe you aren't taking it seriously.

He's been careful so far - if he hears about the email he's going to be doubly careful and avoid an 'enemy' (the friend). And I believe he'd have a good idea who that friend is.

Think about it, Anne, and make your decision. You can't unring the bell, so be sure about what you want to do. I'm glad you're taking a few days to think about it.

I don't even know why I'm cautioning you to not be hasty - you're one of the most patient posters I've seen on here. smile
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/17/10 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
And btw, congrats on hearing the baby! You are blessed, in spite of the other circumstances going on right now.

Thank you! I'm not enjoying this pregnancy as I had hoped but I do try to remember how blessed I am to be having a baby.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/17/10 04:10 PM
MaritalBliss, that's funny that you comment no my patience since that is something that has frustrated others about me. From the intel that I have gathered, it seems that I'm going to have no choice but to be patient. I have pinpointed the times that WH has seen OW since mid-summer. He saw her July 17, November 5 and March 19. In between those times, their contact is very limited and usually pertains to business. From what I can tell, he seems to hook up with her once every three months or so. That is going to make it more challenging to get evidence but my patience will come in handy. I'm just thankful that I'm starting to have good days again. There was a time when I didn't think that was possible. I know not every day will be a good one but I'm thankful for the ones that are!

I know many of you have mentioned how it's not healthy or reasonable to be in Plan A for more than a few weeks. It seems like I don't have much of a choice about that since I am unwilling to confront with what I have. To help cope, I am seeing a therapist and she has been amazing in helping me to figure out ways to deal with this stress while trying to get the information that I need. At my last appointment we talked a lot about how it might be months before I have another opportunity to find out what's really going on. I don't like it but it's out of my control. I can't make something happen but have to wait until it does.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/17/10 07:08 PM
Do WS tend to tell lies about many things and not just those things related to their affairs? My WH told me he is going to play golf tomorrow morning with Dirtbag Friend when he is really going gambling with Dirtbag. I don't care about gambling so I don't know why the lies unless he is just getting caught up in this lifestyle. Maybe he gets a kick out of deceiving me? He also mentioned to Dirtbag that he hasn't talked to OW (Butter) in a while and needs to call her so she doesn't think he forgot about her. Then he made a joke about how they should go to a bar and "p*ss where they eat". It's a bar close to our house in our town so that means they would be taking some risks. Sounds like he likes that.

Frustrated that none of this is proof but hopefully I can get that soon. While I'm not happy to find out he lied about where he's going tomorrow, it doesn't help me since he's not seeing OW. Catching him in a lie about where he was with his friend does me no good.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/17/10 09:10 PM
Anyone had any luck with cell phone spy software (not for an Iphone)?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/18/10 02:32 PM
WH is out gambling today with Dirtbag Friend. He told me he was playing golf. I don't know why he would lie about that since I don't have a problem with gambling. Maybe he just finds it thrilling and exciting to lie to me and get away with things. He did tell Dirtbag that he should call OW. Hopefully he will do that this week. He'll probably call her from work and not his car but he might talk about it in his car with Dirtbag (most of his conversations with Dirtbag are in the car).

Still mulling over what to do about the anonymous email I got (the one that said "your husband f*cked OW i have pictures of them together"). Someone had suggested I reply and ask for the pictures. I'm thinking of doing that. It's hard to know what to do.

Wish me luck that I can get some more positive proof so that I can move forward. As always, thanks for listening.
Posted By: happyheart Re: I Need Help! - 04/18/10 09:09 PM
If you don't have cell phone spy software you could try this until you have it:

1. First get your husbands cell phone and program it to forward all calls to your own phone number after 15 or 20 seconds.
2. You then program your own simcard to forward any calls to husbands number directly.
3. Then take your own cell phone and your husbands and switch sim-cards.

This will give you the opportunity to screen all his calls before he sees them.
You can autoforward all his text messages to your own number (which is in his cell phone) if you want, or you can read them first and then put them through.
Please remember to program the phone to hide the number when calling. And it might be a good idea to also switch the voicemail box number if your phone company/cell phone allows for it, he won't notice anything off if all unanswered calls (he gets on your sim) are forwarded to his mailbox.

It may take some thinking but if you know your way around his cell phone it is certainly worth the trouble.

Also, because it is your own sim-card, you can add a tracking function to it via internet. They will always send you a notice to your phone after you sign up, but once you have it, you can trace where the phone with this sim is via the internet.

Hope this helps.

(legal notice: laws in your state might require you to inform your husband of this in advance)
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: I Need Help! - 04/19/10 01:43 AM
Originally Posted by anne505
Still mulling over what to do about the anonymous email I got (the one that said "your husband f*cked OW i have pictures of them together"). Someone had suggested I reply and ask for the pictures. I'm thinking of doing that. It's hard to know what to do.

I suggest do it, but make the response brief, and go entirely silent if they try to extort money or favours from you.
Posted By: _Larry_ Re: I Need Help! - 04/19/10 04:31 AM

Originally Posted by maninmotion
go entirely silent if they try to extort money or favours from you.

Now THAT was a priceless comment.

Larry
Posted By: GoingUphill Re: I Need Help! - 04/19/10 01:39 PM
Another idea on the email response that would allow you to play dumb but might prompt the sender to get those pics to you:

Hello Which-Ever "Friend" of Husband's you are:

I'm very familiar with the games you all play with each other and the pranks you pull. I don't agree with them. Please leave me out of the loop when you pull nasty tricks on my husband. I am sure he leaves your wife out of whatever stunts he pulls as he is too honorable to go that low with a prank.

I know this is a prank because if you'd had pictures and were really concerned with me, you would have sent them.

Thank You.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/19/10 03:53 PM
I did respond to the "your husband" email saying that I don't believe them and if they have pictures why not just send them? We'll see if that gets any response. WH's friend may not be mad at him anymore but who knows? I am getting frustrated. I would like to catch him doing more than telling me lies about golf/gambling with Dirtbag Friend. It's just another red flag that makes me certain I can't trust him yet doesn't offer enough proof for confrontation.

Question for Happy Heart - First, thanks for that suggestion. I had no idea you could do something like that. If I were to do what you suggested, would he no longer get his voicemails? That could be a big problem since he uses his cell for business so much. I'm just trying to imagine any potential pitfalls if I were to do that. I'd really like to just get the cell phone spy software but those seem to be geared towards Iphones and touch phones and he has a regular cell.

Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 04/19/10 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I did respond to the "your husband" email saying that I don't believe them and if they have pictures why not just send them? We'll see if that gets any response. WH's friend may not be mad at him anymore but who knows? I am getting frustrated. I would like to catch him doing more than telling me lies about golf/gambling with Dirtbag Friend. It's just another red flag that makes me certain I can't trust him yet doesn't offer enough proof for confrontation.

Question for Happy Heart - First, thanks for that suggestion. I had no idea you could do something like that. If I were to do what you suggested, would he no longer get his voicemails? That could be a big problem since he uses his cell for business so much. I'm just trying to imagine any potential pitfalls if I were to do that. I'd really like to just get the cell phone spy software but those seem to be geared towards Iphones and touch phones and he has a regular cell.

I was one poster who initially advised you to not respond to the email; however, because it appears that contact between H & AP may be haphazard, I'm starting to think it might be a good idea to respond to the email. I'm afraid it'll make you crazy if you have to remain in suspended animation like you have been.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/19/10 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
I was one poster who initially advised you to not respond to the email; however, because it appears that contact between H & AP may be haphazard, I'm starting to think it might be a good idea to respond to the email. I'm afraid it'll make you crazy if you have to remain in suspended animation like you have been.

You're right, contact between WH and OW is haphazard and they go months without seeing one another. Weeks at a time without contact at all. I did respond to that email but I'm afraid I may never hear back. I have a feeling they were just trying to cause trouble for my WH and had no intention of ever sending me the pictures. If they did, why not just send them in the first place? This is driving me crazy but I have to find a way to cope. Nothing good will come if I confront too early and without sufficent evidence. I've caught him in several lies over the last few weeks but none of them pertain to OW. It really doesn't do me much good to catch him in lies about his Dirtbag Friends. If I confront him about that, he will just get better at covering up situation with OW.

The part that bothers me the most is that I think he has justified this in his mind as not being an affair and therefore, it's okay. Has anyone else ever been in a situation like this?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 04/19/10 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
The part that bothers me the most is that I think he has justified this in his mind as not being an affair and therefore, it's okay. Has anyone else ever been in a situation like this?

It's more common than you can imagine. It's one of the main ways adulterers are able to conduct their affairs. (As in "We're Just Friends")

Your H is displaying IB with his white lies about where he is and what he's doing. He also may be compartmentalizing the A - keeping it 'at the office'.

The emailer was testing the waters. This tells me it's someone you know well.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/19/10 08:26 PM
What is IB? I can't find it anywhere. I'm 100% certain he's compartmentalizing the A. And I'm also certain he doesn't think it even counts as an A since it's so sporadic seems to be just about sex. I think at some point, he decided his friends were having so much fun and not getting caught that he decided to join their games. Or maybe he's been doing this all these years. I don't even know what to think anymore.

The worst part is that I'm almost hoping he has a meeting with OW soon so I can get some proof. That makes me feel sick.

I found out today that my mother has breast cancer. When it rains, it pours.
Posted By: turtlehead Re: I Need Help! - 04/19/10 08:31 PM
Independent Behavior.

If you DO get a response back from the emailer, make sure you are in a safe place before you open it and read it. Have a friend come over, or something.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/21/10 05:52 PM
I finally got something from the VAR but I don't know if it's enough so I thought I would run it past you guys. WH sent an email inviting OW to golf with him and Dirtbag Friend. Dirtbag called WH last night and it was brought up on the phone. WH did say about OW that "I could never date her because she talks to much." A bit later in the conversation they were talking about how she's not married (something was said on Facebook) and doesn't want to get married. They they started talking about her meeting them for golf and this is what followed (the ... represent times when WH is not talking but listening - keep in mind, it seems like he's talking to OW but this is really a conversation between him and Dirtbag Friend):

"Tell her to bring her little toys, Man...Everyone gets friends with benefits on her, take turns on her. Make her happy. Listen, Honey, you make me happy, I'll make you happy, that's all we need. What more do you want? Isn't that what life's all about? Come on, I'll make you happy, give you a little tickle-tickle. That's all...Exactly. I won't embarass you. You take me back, you give me a little hand job under the table, that's all I ask for. In return, I'll go down on you. You know, you seem like a clean lady. What the heck, you know? Throw me a little bone every once in awhile and that's all. I'll take you for dinner, you don't tell my wife, that's all. See, that's how things work. You don't really want to get married." And then laughter following by a little chat about how she lives in a townhome and then they change the subject.

So, what do you all think? I think the pro of confronting now is that I get it over with. The con is that I'm not sure this is enough to go forward with. I'm inclined to wait since I'm certain there will be more conversations because they plan to golf with her in the next few weeks.

Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 04/21/10 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I finally got something from the VAR but I don't know if it's enough so I thought I would run it past you guys. WH sent an email inviting OW to golf with him and Dirtbag Friend. Dirtbag called WH last night and it was brought up on the phone. WH did say about OW that "I could never date her because she talks to much." A bit later in the conversation they were talking about how she's not married (something was said on Facebook) and doesn't want to get married. They they started talking about her meeting them for golf and this is what followed (the ... represent times when WH is not talking but listening - keep in mind, it seems like he's talking to OW but this is really a conversation between him and Dirtbag Friend):

"Tell her to bring her little toys, Man...Everyone gets friends with benefits on her, take turns on her. Make her happy. Listen, Honey, you make me happy, I'll make you happy, that's all we need. What more do you want? Isn't that what life's all about? Come on, I'll make you happy, give you a little tickle-tickle. That's all...Exactly. I won't embarass you. You take me back, you give me a little hand job under the table, that's all I ask for. In return, I'll go down on you. You know, you seem like a clean lady. What the heck, you know? Throw me a little bone every once in awhile and that's all. I'll take you for dinner, you don't tell my wife, that's all. See, that's how things work. You don't really want to get married." And then laughter following by a little chat about how she lives in a townhome and then they change the subject.

So, what do you all think? I think the pro of confronting now is that I get it over with. The con is that I'm not sure this is enough to go forward with. I'm inclined to wait since I'm certain there will be more conversations because they plan to golf with her in the next few weeks.
Ugh. You poor woman. The above would be plenty for me to know your WH is not a man I want to be married to...but I guess that is not very marriage builderish.

I do have a question though....It sounds like your WH is telling DB how to handle a woman....?? Are they sharing her? Are they talking about your WHs OW or DB's OW.

I guess you never heard anything else back from that anonymous email?

What are your intentions with this marriage? Do you think it is salvagable?

Edit: Upon further reading....are you thinking your WH hasn't actually been WITH her? I think that is how he would spin it....that it is DB friend's OW---not your WHs....

If you can stand it, I probably would not reveal your source yet or even confront at all. I kept my kelogger in place for approximately 9 weeks...it paid off. I got more and more info. So much that I know he is bad enough that I will NEVER take him back. I had to have that for ME.

So when you say you want to 'move forward'....does that mean divorce? Is that what you want?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 04/21/10 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I finally got something from the VAR but I don't know if it's enough so I thought I would run it past you guys. WH sent an email inviting OW to golf with him and Dirtbag Friend. Dirtbag called WH last night and it was brought up on the phone. WH did say about OW that "I could never date her because she talks to much." A bit later in the conversation they were talking about how she's not married (something was said on Facebook) and doesn't want to get married. They they started talking about her meeting them for golf and this is what followed (the ... represent times when WH is not talking but listening - keep in mind, it seems like he's talking to OW but this is really a conversation between him and Dirtbag Friend):

"Tell her to bring her little toys, Man...Everyone gets friends with benefits on her, take turns on her. Make her happy. Listen, Honey, you make me happy, I'll make you happy, that's all we need. What more do you want? Isn't that what life's all about? Come on, I'll make you happy, give you a little tickle-tickle. That's all...Exactly. I won't embarass you. You take me back, you give me a little hand job under the table, that's all I ask for. In return, I'll go down on you. You know, you seem like a clean lady. What the heck, you know? Throw me a little bone every once in awhile and that's all. I'll take you for dinner, you don't tell my wife, that's all. See, that's how things work. You don't really want to get married." And then laughter following by a little chat about how she lives in a townhome and then they change the subject.

So, what do you all think? I think the pro of confronting now is that I get it over with. The con is that I'm not sure this is enough to go forward with. I'm inclined to wait since I'm certain there will be more conversations because they plan to golf with her in the next few weeks.

Sigh. Oh, Anne. hug It's something, but it's not enough, IMO. I re-read it and can see where your H can spin it to be all about the POS friend's exploits.

Can you hang on a while longer?
Posted By: turtlehead Re: I Need Help! - 04/21/10 07:24 PM
I would sit tight.

Your H is clearly having a "pretend" conversation.
It's not anything he's said or plans to say to any OW **that we know of**.

Right now it's nothing more than a big laugh about OW and her lack of morals.

KEEP THE RECORDING just in case it proves useful in the future, but right now I wouldn't give it any more credence than if you were to hear your WH impersonating a prostitute and saying "Me so horney... me love you long time!" or similar. It's an impersonation and a caricature, nothing more. That we know of.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/21/10 08:47 PM
Thanks for confirming what I already knew. He will twist this and turn it into a big joke and then put it on me and say "I can't believe you don't trust me.". As many of you know, I have more than enough patience necessary to wait this out. The golf date is supposed to take place in a few weeks so there will be more emails and phone calls.

The way he was talking was sort of summing up his attitude towards OW. He was sort of telling DB how it is with her. And he got a good laugh out of it too.

I should get access to his computer in the next week which will allow me to get a keylogger on his laptop. Until then, the emails will have to do. Has anyone ever used club mz e-spy? I'm thinking of buying it. It's cheap so I won't be out a lot of money if it doesn't work. It's supposed to work on all phones (he does not have a touch or iphone).

To answer a few of the questions Smiling asked, here goes:

I don't think they are sharing her YET. WH was definitely there first and I know that DB has a thing for her now and wants to [censored] her (his words, not mine). You'll note that WH made a reference to "Everyone gets friends with benefits on her, take turns on her." This golf date seems designed to put the wheels in motion for DB to get his "turn".

No, I did not hear from back from the anonymous email and I don't think I will. I do know from reading WH's email that pictures of him and OW exist but I doubt I will ever get my hands on them.

As for my intentions with this marriage, I just don't know. The fact that I'm 11 weeks pregnant changes a lot of things for me. If I wasn't, I would be leaning strongly towards walking away. That still might happen but it's hard to think clearly right now between this situation with WH/OW/DB, the fact that I'm pregnant and the fact that I recently learned that my mom has breast cancer.

I do believe that WH has had sexual contact with her. He may not have had actual intercourse with her which makes some sense as he would think it's not really cheating (ala Clinton-Lewinsky). I'm certain that there have been sexual acts such as hand jobs and oral sex. Although I'm not ruling out the fact that he very well may have had intercourse with her. And it is WH's OW but DB is trying to get with her too. But he would spin it that it's only DB who wants to get with her and he's trying to help. Maybe they are planning to get her drunk and talk her into a threesome.

I am going to stay quiet and try to act normal. When I say I want to 'move forward' that means one way or another. Either we get counseling and start a very long process of rebuilding our marriage or we get a divorce. I have no idea which one it's going to be.
Posted By: bigpicture Re: I Need Help! - 04/21/10 09:44 PM
anne505,

I haven't read this entire thread so plz forgive if this is a repeat but you mention again and again how much Dirtbag cheats on wife. Have you ever thought of informing his wife?? I guess you have no proof right?

The thing is overall, these guys are a-holes. Sorry to be so insulting to your husband but he lies about small stuff and has an attitude of contempt for women as does his whole crew. Do you have to socialize with these people too? I hope you take very precaution since he is a lawyer but you deserve basic respect and I don't see it coming in your marriage. Years of that alone would be enough to divorce. Are you even thinking of it or do you feel like as long as he isn't cheating its an ok relationship?

As much as we all want to see marriage building here, the long road of recovery that you spoke about is only really beneficial IF you have a spouse that has basic respect for you. I don't see that happening with him.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/21/10 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by bigpicture
Have you ever thought of informing his wife?? I guess you have no proof right?

I do have proof that DB cheats on his wife. But if I go to her, I will not be able to get proof of WH's involvement with OW.

I do not socialize with these people. I just found out that this is what WH is really like about a month ago. Before then, I thought we were happy and that I was married to an amazing man. I knew that his friends were a bit questionable but he had always been honest with me about the things they did and how he wasn't like that. I feel stupid now for believing him.

I have been considering a divorce. I know that it is just as likely as us staying together. I only wish I had known these things before I got pregnant. And no, it wasn't an accident. It was very much planned and he was thrilled when I told him.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 04/22/10 01:40 AM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by bigpicture
Have you ever thought of informing his wife?? I guess you have no proof right?

I do have proof that DB cheats on his wife. But if I go to her, I will not be able to get proof of WH's involvement with OW.

I do not socialize with these people. I just found out that this is what WH is really like about a month ago. Before then, I thought we were happy and that I was married to an amazing man. I knew that his friends were a bit questionable but he had always been honest with me about the things they did and how he wasn't like that. I feel stupid now for believing him.

I have been considering a divorce. I know that it is just as likely as us staying together. I only wish I had known these things before I got pregnant. And no, it wasn't an accident. It was very much planned and he was thrilled when I told him.


My best friend became pregnant--planned no less--during her WH's affair. It was VERY difficult for her to leave...but she did it. I cannot stomach what I am reading about your WH....it makes me physically ill.....

Just remember.....just because you are pregnant...doesn't mean you are trapped.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 04/22/10 01:41 AM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by bigpicture
Have you ever thought of informing his wife?? I guess you have no proof right?

I do have proof that DB cheats on his wife. But if I go to her, I will not be able to get proof of WH's involvement with OW.

DB's wife is not your prime obejective here. YOUR LIFE is. Keep the intel and inform her when/if you can...YOUR life is most important now.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/22/10 01:08 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
My best friend became pregnant--planned no less--during her WH's affair. It was VERY difficult for her to leave...but she did it. I cannot stomach what I am reading about your WH....it makes me physically ill.....

Just remember.....just because you are pregnant...doesn't mean you are trapped.

You're right. I think about it every day. It's come to the point that I feel the need to know and have proof of exactly what is going on for legal purposes as much as anything else.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/22/10 01:14 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
DB's wife is not your prime obejective here. YOUR LIFE is. Keep the intel and inform her when/if you can...YOUR life is most important now.

I am not doing anything to let DB's wife know but I am keeping a file to give to her when the time is right. I do know that she suspects that he has cheated on her, has caught him in many lies and has come very close to catching him. She isn't going about her snooping in the right way and she lets him know that she suspects something. I can help her but not until I have what I need which is harder to get becuase WH has a much busier job, not to mention a wife and kids, to deal with. Dirtbag doesn't have children and has a job that requires little thought or skill. He's not very sharp. WH is the smart one which is why he's harder to catch. But I am more patient and smarter than Dirtbag's wife. I will find out what's going on. And then their house of cards will come tumbling down.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 04/22/10 01:28 PM
Interesting that your WH has this man for a friend...

Were they friends from their school years?

You do have an amazing amount of patience....it will pay off I feel sure.

My WH (now X) signed over custody due to the amount of evidence I was willing to use against him. And the fact that your WH's OW is a potential client leads me to believe he will cooperate with you in a divorce to avoid the embarrasment of having his true character publically revealed.
Posted By: schtoop Re: I Need Help! - 04/22/10 01:45 PM
Here's a thought,

Is there any way you can follow him on this "golf outing?"

If you were to catch him at a restaurant with here, especially if he lied about where he was going or who he was going with, wouldn't that be enough for a confrontation?

Or even better, stake out her townhouse and see if they show up there?
Posted By: GoingUphill Re: I Need Help! - 04/22/10 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
My best friend became pregnant--planned no less--during her WH's affair. It was VERY difficult for her to leave...but she did it. I cannot stomach what I am reading about your WH....it makes me physically ill.....

Just remember.....just because you are pregnant...doesn't mean you are trapped.

You're right. I think about it every day. It's come to the point that I feel the need to know and have proof of exactly what is going on for legal purposes as much as anything else.

You have known him for 19 years and this is the first you've seen of his dark side. Considering the children and the one on the way, I suggest you gather your strength to consider divorce if needed, but keep it in your back pocket. It might be that his idea of being a Man's Man includes the nasty behavior when you aren't looking. That can be changed if he wants to change it once you confront him. He apparently thinks what he is doing is OK, but there are a lot of betrayers represented here who thought it was OK until they saw the damage done.

I think you are doing great at remaining patient while you gather more evidence. If this marriage can be saved (depending on his deep down character), you certainly have what it takes to create another MB success story. You also have what it takes to do well if you have to go to Plan D. You are awesome!

I'd like to whack some sense into your husband. I suspect he knows how great he has it with you . . . what man wouldn't know that? Perhaps his big man brain excuses his little man brain by telling him that what the wifey doesn't know can't hurt. sick
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/22/10 03:58 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Interesting that your WH has this man for a friend...

Were they friends from their school years?

You know, I never understood this friendship before but now I'm starting to. They have been friends for 25 years. Dirtbag started cheating on his wife after he almost died from kidney failure and lots a lot of weight. This was 3 or 4 years ago. He started cheating during the summer of 2008. Interesting reaction to almost dying, huh?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/22/10 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by schtoop
Here's a thought,

Is there any way you can follow him on this "golf outing?"

If you were to catch him at a restaurant with here, especially if he lied about where he was going or who he was going with, wouldn't that be enough for a confrontation?

Or even better, stake out her townhouse and see if they show up there?

I have been trying to think of a way to do this. The thing is that they are actually planning to golf. But, it's the after part I'm worried about. The problem with staking out her townhouse is that I will have my kids with me. There is no one I can get to watch them on a Sunday morning (which is when they are going).
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/22/10 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by GoingUphill
You have known him for 19 years and this is the first you've seen of his dark side. Considering the children and the one on the way, I suggest you gather your strength to consider divorce if needed, but keep it in your back pocket. It might be that his idea of being a Man's Man includes the nasty behavior when you aren't looking. That can be changed if he wants to change it once you confront him. He apparently thinks what he is doing is OK, but there are a lot of betrayers represented here who thought it was OK until they saw the damage done.

I think you are doing great at remaining patient while you gather more evidence. If this marriage can be saved (depending on his deep down character), you certainly have what it takes to create another MB success story. You also have what it takes to do well if you have to go to Plan D. You are awesome!

I'd like to whack some sense into your husband. I suspect he knows how great he has it with you . . . what man wouldn't know that? Perhaps his big man brain excuses his little man brain by telling him that what the wifey doesn't know can't hurt. sick

Wow, thank you for that post...you made my day! It's so good to know that there are still decent people in the world! I guess I will have to see how things go once I confront him. Your advice is exactly what my therapist told me this morning when I was there (except for the whack part wink I am so thankful for all the wonderful advice and support I get here. I don't know if I could have made it this far without it!
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 04/22/10 05:43 PM
Quote
"Tell her to bring her little toys, Man...Everyone gets friends with benefits on her, take turns on her. Make her happy. Listen, Honey, you make me happy, I'll make you happy, that's all we need. What more do you want? Isn't that what life's all about? Come on, I'll make you happy, give you a little tickle-tickle. That's all...Exactly. I won't embarass you. You take me back, you give me a little hand job under the table, that's all I ask for. In return, I'll go down on you. You know, you seem like a clean lady. What the heck, you know? Throw me a little bone every once in awhile and that's all. I'll take you for dinner, you don't tell my wife, that's all. See, that's how things work. You don't really want to get married." And then laughter following by a little chat about how she lives in a townhome and then they change the subject.



Okay......Barf. Take turns? Clean lady? You want to take a shower after reading that.

Sorry you are going through this anne. I think it's all coming to a head now and you may not have to wait too much longer to get the smoking gun. I sure hope so.

How is he at home at night? Any changes?


Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/22/10 06:00 PM
Chrisner - yes, it makes me sick. At least I think I'm finally going to get to the end of this. Hopefully this little golf date will spark some good emails and conversations on the VAR. The only problem with the VAR is it does pick up a lot of background noise so it's a bit unreliable. But, it's got me some good info so far so I will keep at it.

I wonder how OW would feel if she knew how they talked about her. I don't feel bad though. She deserves what she gets.

At home, he acts like a loving husband and wonderful father. He makes me sick.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 04/22/10 06:04 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
At home, he acts like a loving husband and wonderful father. He makes me sick.

My friend...the one who finally left her WH when she was pregnant....she said the same thing about him. He was always so loving and kind to her--I think these type of Waywards are particularly sinister. Creepy.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/22/10 07:06 PM
SmilingWoman - did your friend have other children with her WH? This is child #3 for me so I'm feeilng very overwhelmed by all of this. If I had known about any of this, I never would have got pregnant. Of course I look back now and see the red flags that should have put me on notice. But, hindsight is 20/20.

Creepy and sinister about covers it. He's so nice and normal that I often find myself reading the emails and listening to those coverstaions just to remind myself that this is really happening.
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 04/22/10 09:12 PM
Well it does not appear that he has a romantic/addiction type adultery going with Butter Butt. Perhaps good in the short term but tough for the long haul.

He is going to be totally blindsided when you have everything to confront. I think we may have a begger/pleader on our hands when the feces finally impacts the rotary oscillator. He does not want this to destroy his marriage. And yet he has poured gasoline all over it and is playing with matches. Waywards seem to have a teenage view of invincibility with their risk taking.

How he reacts will say a lot about your chances.

He is going to have to address his whole entitled wayward mindset if you even chose to recover the marriage.

The toxic friends will have to go for life. That can�t be negotiable.

He will have to make a lot of changes.

Originally Posted by anne
I wonder how OW would feel if she knew how they talked about her.
Oh I would make sure she finds out how exactly how they speak of her when exposure comes. Every good skank-ho deserves feedback on her performances and techniques. Bet she would be real pleased to know she�s a �butter face.�


Quote
She deserves what she gets.
I would be more worried about what she may be giving seeing as she is everyone�s friend with benefits. Oh wait, that�s right. She seems like a clean lady.


So anne, I am curious. If you got irrefutable proof today, what are you going to do with it? What�s your Pearl Harbor plan of attack?

Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 04/23/10 02:03 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
SmilingWoman - did your friend have other children with her WH? This is child #3 for me so I'm feeilng very overwhelmed by all of this. If I had known about any of this, I never would have got pregnant. Of course I look back now and see the red flags that should have put me on notice. But, hindsight is 20/20.

Creepy and sinister about covers it. He's so nice and normal that I often find myself reading the emails and listening to those coverstaions just to remind myself that this is really happening.

My friend did not have other children. It was their first pregnancy. They were married about 14 years total...and he was cheating on her during the last 4 years for sure---who really knows how much longer. He kept telling her over and over that he wouldn't do it again. And it wasn't just one affair...several different women. She wanted so bad to believe he was going to stop. So when he told her he wanted a baby with her after 12 or so years of marriage she took that to be a good sign that he was done cheating. Later when she was pregnant and found out he was still seeing his latest she asked him WHY he wanted a baby if he wouldn't/couldn't give up his girlfriend. He said he thought it would give him the strength to stop seeing the OW if he had a baby. Crazy. He eventually married that last OW---but he didn't stop cheating. He cheated on her too---but she stayed with him and they've been married for at least 10 years---and have a child together.

I loved him like a brother---but his betrayal was so long and broad that I will NEVER trust a single word out of his mouth again.


Originally Posted by anne505
Creepy and sinister about covers it. He's so nice and normal that I often find myself reading the emails and listening to those coverstaions just to remind myself that this is really happening.

I did this same thing! It has been almost a year since I collected my first keylogger info. I would sometimes just read over them to remind myself of how sick he is. I haven't looked at them in a long time though. My WH was also living a VERY double life. Much of what I know now about him just freaks me out sometimes....when I think of how I lived with him all those years thinking he was one kind of person when he was really another kind.

Here is an example that I was thinking of just yesterday. He had sex with my 19 year old cousin many times (he was 37 at the time). My cousins friend told me about it. My cousin is a total nut case and everyone in my life (her parents, my parents, all our close friends) felt that it was entirely possible she just made it up. WH denied it happened, cousin denied it happened and she also denied ever telling her friend that it did. I chose to believe that it didn't happen. The only thing I knew FOR SURE was that the friend wasn't lying about what was told to her. So life goes on. 7 long years pass before I got proof that it DID happen. During that 7 years many many times when WH would hear the friend's name he would go off on her for telling a lie about him and my cousin. AND he would casually ask how my cousin was doing when he heard her name or her parents name. So not only did he continue to LIE and cover up what he did, he also continued to slander the only Truthteller in the know. That boggles my mind.

Also, during this time period right after he had sex with her, I really really wanted another baby. Suddenly, WH wouldn't come near me without a condom. He claimed it was because he didn't want another baby....but I now believe he was worried he had contracted something from my cousin. It was about 4 years before he stopped using them. By then it was too late and I couldn't get pregnant.

Anyway, sorry for the T/J!!!!!! I get going sometimes and can't stop.


I'm anxious to hear if you have more info. You are doing a great job.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/23/10 03:47 PM
Originally Posted by chrisner
The toxic friends will have to go for life. That can�t be negotiable.

Oh I would make sure she finds out how exactly how they speak of her when exposure comes. Every good skank-ho deserves feedback on her performances and techniques. Bet she would be real pleased to know she�s a �butter face.�


So anne, I am curious. If you got irrefutable proof today, what are you going to do with it? What�s your Pearl Harbor plan of attack?

Yes, I know the friends must go. I can't live like this.

I will be letting ButterFace know exactly what they have said about her when the time comes. She deserves to know and I deserve to get the chance to tell her.

As for my plan of attack, I really don't know. The more I find out, the more it changes. I know I need to focus on remaining calm and not revealing exactly what I know and how I know it. But I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed as this thing develops. Someone on here said to just say "I know" and leave it at that and watch him scramble. Thoughts?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/23/10 03:55 PM
Smiling Woman - thank you for sharing both the story about your friend and also your own experience. It helps to know I'm not alone in this. I can't believe what these WS are capable of. It boggles my mind.

WH has been busy at work for the past few days and has a deadline for something which is today. Maybe once that is done, he can get back to his emails and phone calls which were both fairly quiet yesterday so I didn't get anything. I keep reminding myself that I won't get new evidence every day but it's so disappointing when that happens. I'm hopeful that this upcoming golf date will get me what I need. If only I knew about this over a month ago. I would have everything I need if I put the VAR in his car before the night they went out. She was in his car that night. Although I'm pretty sure that whatever sex too place was in her office. I could be wrong though. This time, it will probably take place at her house (after golf) but I'm hoping the conversation in the car will be revealing.

I'm going to start gathering our financial records and I am thinking of speaking with an attorney to see what my options are. I don't know what my plan is but I'm keeping an open mind and want to prepare myself for the worst possible scenario. I have come to the point in this where I realize that there worse things than going through a divorce. I would hate to see that happen to my kids but our current situation is very unhealthy too.

I'm curious, did anyone ask their WS to move out? Wondering how that went for everyone.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 04/23/10 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I'm going to start gathering our financial records and I am thinking of speaking with an attorney to see what my options are. I don't know what my plan is but I'm keeping an open mind and want to prepare myself for the worst possible scenario. I have come to the point in this where I realize that there worse things than going through a divorce. I would hate to see that happen to my kids but our current situation is very unhealthy too.

I'm curious, did anyone ask their WS to move out? Wondering how that went for everyone.


There are worse things than a divorce....for sure.

I was a SAHM and homeschooling at that. Still am. But anyway, I asked my WH to move out...told him he had to. I knew he wouldnt' without a court order and sure enough he let it go to within one hour of the temporary hearing before he signed off on a separation agreement that he and I put together for visitation and support.

Also, Scotland's story details how she packed her WHs bags and sent him on his way. She is in a very dark plan B and has been for months.

My WH had the nerve to suggest that I take ds and move into a rent house my parents own. I said, 'you must be out of your mind. You want me and ds to move into a tiny little rent house while you stay in our beautiful 2300 sf home? I am not going to do that and you will find that the judge won't think I should have to do that either.'

You are a SAHM mom right? You have 2 small children and one on the way? Your WH is so going to come out on the losing end on this. Talk to an attorney and get your ducks in a row. If your WH is the type who won't leave without a court order you need to be prepared to do what you have to do. I sure wouldn't leave your home though if I were you.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/23/10 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
You are a SAHM mom right? You have 2 small children and one on the way? Your WH is so going to come out on the losing end on this. Talk to an attorney and get your ducks in a row. If your WH is the type who won't leave without a court order you need to be prepared to do what you have to do. I sure wouldn't leave your home though if I were you.

I am a SAHM which is something I dearly LOVE and I hate the thought of giving it up. Which is becoming one of the very few reasons I can think of to even attempt recovery. My kids are 5 and 9 and will both be in full-time school next year. The baby is due early November. I have been researching divorce laws in my state. I can file on grounds of adultery. I also know not to leave my house so that I won't be viewed as he abandoner by the courts. There is some debt which I would get stuck with half of but it might end up being a small price to pay. I haven't completely ruled out recover but i just don't know if it's possible and want to prepare myself for what might yet come.

Any advice on how to confront him, given my recent turn of events?
Posted By: schtoop Re: I Need Help! - 04/23/10 07:28 PM
Anne,

Here's just one man's take for what it's worth. You have been sitting on this whole situation too long and really letting it eat you up inside. It's clear you are a very strong woman and have held it together better than most could under the circumstances, but it's getting to you now.

From everything you've relayed here, it sounds like your husband is a pretty good man who has gotten sucked into an adulterous lifestyle by his friend. At some points when you're describing the emails and conversations with his friend, your husband actually sounds somewhat reluctant.

I'd bet money that once you confront your husband with even the evidence you have now, he'll come clean and beg for forgiveness. Then you will hold the key to this all and can introduce him to MB's and all the concepts here, and he should be receptive. I bet he'll dump butterface like sack of bricks and little problem maintaining no contact. Sounds to me like he's not too infatuated with her anyway.

But, sitting on this is eating away at the love you have for your husband. You're already considering divorce and haven't even confronted him about the affair yet.

You don't know what some of us on this board wouldn't give for a repentant spouse, and I bet that's exactly what will happen with your husband. Take advantage of that opportunity instead of planning for divorce.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 04/23/10 08:24 PM
Originally Posted by schtoop
Anne,

Here's just one man's take for what it's worth. You have been sitting on this whole situation too long and really letting it eat you up inside. It's clear you are a very strong woman and have held it together better than most could under the circumstances, but it's getting to you now.

From everything you've relayed here, it sounds like your husband is a pretty good man who has gotten sucked into an adulterous lifestyle by his friend. At some points when you're describing the emails and conversations with his friend, your husband actually sounds somewhat reluctant.

I'd bet money that once you confront your husband with even the evidence you have now, he'll come clean and beg for forgiveness. Then you will hold the key to this all and can introduce him to MB's and all the concepts here, and he should be receptive. I bet he'll dump butterface like sack of bricks and little problem maintaining no contact. Sounds to me like he's not too infatuated with her anyway.

But, sitting on this is eating away at the love you have for your husband. You're already considering divorce and haven't even confronted him about the affair yet.

You don't know what some of us on this board wouldn't give for a repentant spouse, and I bet that's exactly what will happen with your husband. Take advantage of that opportunity instead of planning for divorce.

Interesting view of it. My view is totally different. I see him as a man living a double life---and the hidden life is just about as scummy as I've seen on these boards. I am hoping you are right and I am wrong.

Anne It is doubtful much will change for you in the immediate future if you do decide to divorce him. So don't worry too much about that.

I put up with a lot of junk out of my now Xh because I wanted to keep my family together and I wanted to continue being a SAHM and homeschool our son. However, once I found out he was a cheater and basically had been living a lie for years...Iknew I could never go back to that.

Btw, I filed for divorce before I ever confronted my WH. I didn't want to hear his explanations and excuses. I just knew i had reached my limit with him.

YMMV.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/24/10 07:13 PM
Schtoop - Thank you for your input. It's very valuable to me to hear about this from a man's perspective. You'r right, this is eating me up inside. But I am coping because I know that I need more time to get solid evidence. Confronting too early would be a huge mistake.

As for my husband being a good man, I'm not so sure about that anymore. When it comes down to it, I really don't think he would give up his friendship with Dirtbag in order to save our marriage. He might pretend to do it and then carry on behind my back, much like he is doing now. He's found how easy it is for him to lie to me and get away with it. Once he knows I'm on to him, he will find better ways to lie to me. I don't agree that he sounds reluctant in the conversations and emails. To me, he sounds very calculating and is acting as if he knows exactly what he's doing and is enjoying the hell out of it. Which I'm sure he is.

I have no idea what will happen once I confront him. Well, that's not true. I do know that, at first, he will lie to me, swear it's not true and then try to find out what I know and how I know it. I really don't see the begging for forgiveness scenario happening but I do know that anything is possible. I do agree that he doesn't seem too infatuated. He likes what he gets from ButterFace and doesn't care to deal with her too much otherwise. She's there when he wants her and that's probably all that matters to him.

Right now, sitting on this is my best option. What is truly eating at my love for him is my discovery of what he's been doing behind my back and his utter lack of respect for me and our marriage. Considering divorce is my way of preparing for all possible options. Given my circumstances, I would have to say it's one of the possible outcomes. I simply want to be prepared.

That being said, if WH were to tell me he wants to stay together and work on our marriage, I would give him that chance as long as he could convince me he was sincere. Given his track record of lies, that would take a lot of convincing on his part.

I really don't know what my future holds. Right now I'm doing what I need to do. I really do thank you for giving your thoughts on this. I appreicate it and welcome anything else you have to say. I love this board because there are so many who are willing to share their experiences in order to help me. Every time I come here, I see something from a new perpsective.

WH is planning some golf with Dirtbag on May 2 which is only a week away. Unsure if it's the golf date with ButterFace or if this is one of those golf dates where they really go gambling but just say they are going to play golf. They made plans to talk more early next week about. The only problem will be that they take Dirtbag's car when they go out so I can't get to those conversations. Keep your fingers crossed that I can get what I need from hearing them make their plans next week.

Thanks again!
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/24/10 07:15 PM
SmilingWoman - I am inclined to agree with you. He is living a double life and really seems to get off on it. I too hope that Schtoop is right though.

I'm glad someone understands how important being a SAHM is to me. It's not important enough for me to put up with what's been going on though. I deserve better!

Thanks, as always, for the words of advice. You've been so very helpful to me!
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 04/24/10 10:19 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I don't agree that he sounds reluctant in the conversations and emails. To me, he sounds very calculating and is acting as if he knows exactly what he's doing and is enjoying the hell out of it. Which I'm sure he is.

This is EXACTLY the way I read him from your postings of his conversation.

Originally Posted by anne505
I have no idea what will happen once I confront him. Well, that's not true. I do know that, at first, he will lie to me, swear it's not true and then try to find out what I know and how I know it.

Again, just the way I imagine it....and it IS the way it played out for me. I guess I am just seeing the similarities to your WH and mine.


Originally Posted by anne505
That being said, if WH were to tell me he wants to stay together and work on our marriage, I would give him that chance as long as he could convince me he was sincere. Given his track record of lies, that would take a lot of convincing on his part.

This was my problem. When someone reveals themself to be SUCH a liar...how can you EVER trust them again. Especially when he isn't lying because of some 'fog' he is in...he clearly isn't into this OW the way many WSs are this board seem to be. He is just living a double life.
[/quote]



Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 04/26/10 01:35 PM
Anything new Ann?

You've been on my mind all weekend.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/26/10 09:52 PM
Thanks SmilingWoman. It sounds like we have much in common. There is nothing new. It looks like his golf date isn't going to happen because ButterFace will be out of town. He and Dirtbag are planning to "golf" Sunday which means he is going gambling with him and telling me he's golfing. It's just not helpful to catch him in lies with his friend.

He may have found the VAR in his car. I have it attached to the passenger seat with velcro. When I went to switch them out, I noticed he had cleaned out underneath there. I'll just have to wait and see if that happened or not. I would hate it if something like this happened before I got what I need.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/28/10 02:40 PM
It's offical. It appears that he's found the VAR. He didn't confront me about it but that doesn't surprise me since it wouldn't be at all like him to do so. Instead, he has stopped talking on his phone in the car. He has a long commute and makes many phone calls in his car. Since the other day when I thougth he found it, the only calls he has made in his car have been to me. I can't be 100% certain he found it but I am 99% sure.

This is a bad turn of events for me. He has never spoken that freely on emails (plus this will clue him into the fact that I am reading emails) and I really felt that the VAR was my only hope for proof. Right now I'm at a loss as to what to do next. Any suggestions?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 04/28/10 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
It's offical. It appears that he's found the VAR. He didn't confront me about it but that doesn't surprise me since it wouldn't be at all like him to do so. Instead, he has stopped talking on his phone in the car. He has a long commute and makes many phone calls in his car. Since the other day when I thougth he found it, the only calls he has made in his car have been to me. I can't be 100% certain he found it but I am 99% sure.

This is a bad turn of events for me. He has never spoken that freely on emails (plus this will clue him into the fact that I am reading emails) and I really felt that the VAR was my only hope for proof. Right now I'm at a loss as to what to do next. Any suggestions?

Wait him out and see what he says. He's going to start wondering how long it's been there and what you've heard. This will become a mind game. Do not let on about anything.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 04/28/10 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
It's offical. It appears that he's found the VAR. He didn't confront me about it but that doesn't surprise me since it wouldn't be at all like him to do so. Instead, he has stopped talking on his phone in the car. He has a long commute and makes many phone calls in his car. Since the other day when I thougth he found it, the only calls he has made in his car have been to me. I can't be 100% certain he found it but I am 99% sure.

This is a bad turn of events for me. He has never spoken that freely on emails (plus this will clue him into the fact that I am reading emails) and I really felt that the VAR was my only hope for proof. Right now I'm at a loss as to what to do next. Any suggestions?

He might not be clued in that you you are reading his emails. If he thinks it is possible he will change his password....but you have been cool as a cucumber so far. I'm really impressed.

How do you feel Anne? I mean....in your mind is there enough evidence for YOU to KNOW he is a cheater and moral off? True you may not have enough evidence to prove it to a judge, (and I'm not sure you woud need that anyway), but you have plenty in my opinion to know this man is not what he presents himself to be to you.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/28/10 04:34 PM
Although I know that he is not the man I thought he was, I need to know more and find out exactly what is going on. I'm very afraid that if I confront without enough evidence, that I will let him talk his way out of it because I really don't want to believe what's been going on. He and his friends are such good liars that I need to be equipped with as much knowledge and evidence as possible. I could be my own worst enemy during a confrontation and I'm trying not to let that happen. Two of his friends have talked their way out of situations like this. I don't want that to happen to me.

I'm going to take MaritalBliss' advice and keep quiet. He won't say anything - he's a total ostrich about stuff like this. I'll just keep my cool and continue to snoop. It's frustrating though. I was so close to getting something from the conversations in the car. The fact that they have stopped does not bode well for me.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 04/28/10 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Although I know that he is not the man I thought he was, I need to know more and find out exactly what is going on. I'm very afraid that if I confront without enough evidence, that I will let him talk his way out of it because I really don't want to believe what's been going on. He and his friends are such good liars that I need to be equipped with as much knowledge and evidence as possible. I could be my own worst enemy during a confrontation and I'm trying not to let that happen. Two of his friends have talked their way out of situations like this. I don't want that to happen to me.

I'm going to take MaritalBliss' advice and keep quiet. He won't say anything - he's a total ostrich about stuff like this. I'll just keep my cool and continue to snoop. It's frustrating though. I was so close to getting something from the conversations in the car. The fact that they have stopped does not bode well for me.

Can you hire a PI?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/28/10 07:10 PM
Not enough cash for a PI. Plus, he sees OW so rarely that it's going to be difficult, not to mention costly, to go that route. OW is in Florida right now so the planned golf date won't happen until the end of May (WH and Dirtbag were trying to set it up for this weekend but they didn't realize she wouldn't be around so they are going gambling, um, I mean GOLFING instead). WH is busy with family stuff for the next several weekends so it's going to be awhile before he sees her again. In the meantime, he is telling me lies but not about her. I wouldn't want to waste my confrontation on his lies with Dirtbag. It's a catch-22 for sure. I have made it this long, I can last another several weeks or as long as it takes. This is my future I'm talking about so I am willing to do whatever it takes.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 04/28/10 07:46 PM
Anne, what about a GPS in the car this weekend? That way, you'd definitely catch him in a lie about golfing vs gambling.
Posted By: bigpicture Re: I Need Help! - 04/28/10 08:19 PM
Anne,

Quote
That way, you'd definitely catch him in a lie about golfing vs gambling.

I agree with your approach to be very patient. A lie about golf vs. gambling is not going to get you anywhere. He may have cheated in the past, he may do it again but it doesn't seem like there is a current adultery. How is SF between you two?? Has there been any changes lately?? Has there been any changes in his mood or temper? I forgot, what was the outcome from the strange email offering you photos of him cheating?

Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 04/29/10 12:38 AM
BigPicture is right. That is not the lie I want to catch him in. I already have sufficient proof of those lies. As for current adultery, it doesn't seem like there is anything right now. SF between us for the past year or so has been really good. It tapered off a bit when I got pregnant due to morning sickness but I can't help that. The fact remains that he was doing this during times when SF was very good and long before I got pregnant. He seems to be one of those types who knows he can get away with it so he does it. He seems to like his cake and eat it too. As for the outcome from the email, I never heard back from our emailer. I think they were just playing a joke. Although I know those pictures exist, it's unlikely I will ever get my hands on them. If I didn't know about the lies, I would have no clue that anything was going on. He acts perfectly normal. I'm starting to wonder if he's some kind of sociopath because he is so GOOD at the lies!

Good news though. It looks like he may not know about the VAR. Although today's conversations don't provide me with proof, I did catch some things on there that he would never say if he knew I was listening. So I'm fairly hopefull that I will eventually get what I need. It won't come from email because part of today's converstaion was him advising Dirtbag Friend not to say too much in email because they are never truly deleted and can always be retrieved. Interesting, huh? That explains the lack of emails between WH and ButterFace who is also a lawyer.

He and Dirtbag are going "golfing" Sunday morning unless it rains in which case they will "Just say we are going bowling." Which means they are planning to gamble. Which does me no good because I am not interested in catching him in a lie with Dirtbag. But I've waited this long, I can wait a lot longer.
Posted By: bigpicture Re: I Need Help! - 04/30/10 10:13 PM
Anne,
While you are waiting, there is the possiblity that your Dday may never come. Joyous news BUT in the meantime what about your Plan A. Or at least doing your best to meet his ENs, avoid LBers and have a great marriage? If Dday does come look at what he will have experienced and will be sorely missing come B or D!?! Are you in the marriage or just waiting?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/01/10 04:40 PM
Big Picture - those are the very questions I struggle with every day. I have enough information to know that I'm not in the type of marriage that I want to be in. I am holding out hope that I will get more proof which will result in a confrontation. Of course, I realize that it's possible that might not happen in which case, I will need to move forward with what I have.

As for Plan A, that was not going so well for the past few weeks. I have not been good at consistently working on Plan A. Part of that is my unhappiness with my current situation and part of it was my worry and sickness caused by my pregnancy. I had a CVS test a few weeks ago and was waiting for the results. Honestly, during that time period, Plan A was not a priority to me. Now that I have the results and they are normal, I am more clear headed. The nice thing is that WH chalks up all my behavior during this time to morning sickness and being worried about the test results. Since we have our results now and they are good, I go back to my focus on Plan A and the carrot part. He has a lot to lose and I want to remind him of that. I guess I am both in the marriage but also waiting. Not the easiest balance to strike but it's what I feel I need to do.

Interesting conversation just took place between us. He told me he wants to go gambling tomorrow morning with Dirtbag (not bowling or golfing as he had intended to tell me). Now, this might be another lie because they have been talking about going to a strip club lately but not too many places are open on a Sunday morning. I no longer trust anything he says so who knows why he is telling me this. Also, he still says he went golfing the last time they went out gambling a few weeks ago. I can check his frequent flyer card for the casino they are going to and that will tell me if he goes tomorrow. If there is no activity on it, I will know they went somewhere else. They always take Dirtbag's car when they go out so the VAR does me no good.

How's this for getting back to Plan A with focus on the carrot. Today we have our son's birthday party. Tonight, while we are relaxing, I am going to tell him that we are having a little girl (we have two boys). Now if that isn't a carrot, then I don't know what is! Wish me luck!!!
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/01/10 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Big Picture - those are the very questions I struggle with every day. I have enough information to know that I'm not in the type of marriage that I want to be in. I am holding out hope that I will get more proof which will result in a confrontation. Of course, I realize that it's possible that might not happen in which case, I will need to move forward with what I have.

As for Plan A, that was not going so well for the past few weeks. I have not been good at consistently working on Plan A. Part of that is my unhappiness with my current situation and part of it was my worry and sickness caused by my pregnancy. I had a CVS test a few weeks ago and was waiting for the results. Honestly, during that time period, Plan A was not a priority to me. Now that I have the results and they are normal, I am more clear headed. The nice thing is that WH chalks up all my behavior during this time to morning sickness and being worried about the test results. Since we have our results now and they are good, I go back to my focus on Plan A and the carrot part. He has a lot to lose and I want to remind him of that. I guess I am both in the marriage but also waiting. Not the easiest balance to strike but it's what I feel I need to do.

Interesting conversation just took place between us. He told me he wants to go gambling tomorrow morning with Dirtbag (not bowling or golfing as he had intended to tell me). Now, this might be another lie because they have been talking about going to a strip club lately but not too many places are open on a Sunday morning. I no longer trust anything he says so who knows why he is telling me this. Also, he still says he went golfing the last time they went out gambling a few weeks ago. I can check his frequent flyer card for the casino they are going to and that will tell me if he goes tomorrow. If there is no activity on it, I will know they went somewhere else. They always take Dirtbag's car when they go out so the VAR does me no good.

How's this for getting back to Plan A with focus on the carrot. Today we have our son's birthday party. Tonight, while we are relaxing, I am going to tell him that we are having a little girl (we have two boys). Now if that isn't a carrot, then I don't know what is! Wish me luck!!!

I don't know how you keep doing it....you are doing great though. Congrats on your baby girl....that is awesome.

I could never understand some of the lies my now Xh told me.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/02/10 03:54 PM
Thanks SmilingWoman. You are always so nice to me and I appreciate it. I'm just doing what I have to do. It won't always be like this.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/03/10 11:57 AM
Originally Posted by anne505
Thanks SmilingWoman. You are always so nice to me and I appreciate it. I'm just doing what I have to do. It won't always be like this.

Anything of interest over the weekend? Your story resonates with me....so similar to my own...I always look for your updates first thing.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/03/10 04:06 PM
SmilingWoman - You are so sweet to check in! As frustrating as it is, nothing is happening right now. In fact, he told me the truth about going gambling as well as some of the activities of Dirtbag with his women (there are currently two of them right now). He even took my car so I heard him and Dirtbag talking first hand and it was all about Dirtbag's cheating and nothing about WH. He even told Dirtbag he needs to stop doing this. I don't think he had any idea I had a VAR in my own car.

However, OW was out of town and is back now. I suspect he will get the itch to see her as he does every few months or so. I'm not letting my guard down.

In the meantime, he's making tons of plans for the future of our family. He was thrilled to hear we are having a girl and was talking about buying a new house, baby names, calling her his little angel, etc. I'd say I'm setting up quite a carrot for him in my Plan A which I have refocused on over the course of the last few days. I don't think this is a man who wants to lose his family.

Just curious...is it normal for WH to go through a "truth telling phase" like this?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 05/03/10 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Just curious...is it normal for WH to go through a "truth telling phase" like this?

I'd be careful with this, Anne. It sounds almost too good to be true. Think about this: so, he's telling Dirtbag he needs to change his errant ways, right? Wouldn't Dirtbag's response be something akin to "hey, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?"

OTOH, maybe he had a 'come to Jesus' moment somewhere and has decided that the role of unfaithful H didn't suit him. I'd like to think so, but still...just sayin'...
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/03/10 06:13 PM
MaritalBliss - I am being careful and remaining viligant about snooping. OW is back in town now so he might get interested in seeing her soon. He and Dirtbag were trying to get her to go out with them a few weeks ago. Now that she's back, I suspect that will be back on.

As for Dirtbag not saying anything about WH's activity with OW, I'm not really surprised. Dirtbag is a VERY selfish person who only thinks of himself. When they are talking about his situation, he is not going to change the subject and talk about someone else - not even to prove a point. So, him not bringing up WH's activity is more of an indication that he wanted to keep the focus on himself.

I just find it odd that WH is telling me the truth about stuff that he lied to me about only a few weeks ago (gambling, Dirtbag's OW's). I was wondering if anyone else has had this experience. Is he going through a "honeymoon" phase? Is this something that even happens? Not sure what to think!
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 05/03/10 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
MaritalBliss - I am being careful and remaining viligant about snooping. OW is back in town now so he might get interested in seeing her soon. He and Dirtbag were trying to get her to go out with them a few weeks ago. Now that she's back, I suspect that will be back on.

As for Dirtbag not saying anything about WH's activity with OW, I'm not really surprised. Dirtbag is a VERY selfish person who only thinks of himself. When they are talking about his situation, he is not going to change the subject and talk about someone else - not even to prove a point. So, him not bringing up WH's activity is more of an indication that he wanted to keep the focus on himself.

I just find it odd that WH is telling me the truth about stuff that he lied to me about only a few weeks ago (gambling, Dirtbag's OW's). I was wondering if anyone else has had this experience. Is he going through a "honeymoon" phase? Is this something that even happens? Not sure what to think!

I'm going to jump off-subject for a sec, here, Anne. Just wanted to ask you: have you ever told your H that his social activities w/Butterface make you uncomfortable? That you would prefer that he socialize with her only when you're around? I can't remember - does he know that you are aware of her?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/03/10 06:21 PM
No, I haven't told him that. Since it's been his position that she's a potential client, there is really no reason I should be uncomfortable (since he has no clue I know at least part of what has taken place). He does know that I know about her and that he takes her out every few months. He says he does that so he can get business from her.
Posted By: howtoheal Re: I Need Help! - 05/03/10 06:56 PM
"Business" from her... MrRollieEyes

I don't know how you're doing this but I admire you. And you're doing it the way you feel is best.

Good on your revitalized plan A. Just watch your love bank...remember, you are important here!!!
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 05/03/10 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
No, I haven't told him that. Since it's been his position that she's a potential client, there is really no reason I should be uncomfortable (since he has no clue I know at least part of what has taken place). He does know that I know about her and that he takes her out every few months. He says he does that so he can get business from her.

Okay...just trying to work all the angles, here. I just see you sort of running in place, through no fault of your own, and I don't want you to make yourself crazy. The truth may be that your H likes a little different flavor every now and then and sees himself as entitled to it, as long as you don't know about it. That philosophy is being bolstered by a wingnut buddy and a potential 'client' with poor boundaries. It sounds like a recipe for craziness, Anne. It sounds like a lifetime gig for him. And it sounds like a lifetime of you always having to track an unrepentent H around.

I'm just wondering if you can approach this differently. If you can approach him and try to rewrite some rules that the two of you have. The main one being, of course, that he doesn't have one-on-one outings with female clients.

That may sound to him like it's coming out of left field. And he may well say that he 'has' to do that for his job. But truth be told, I know a lot of attorneys, and the ones I know don't "have" to take female clients out drinking. They don't "have" to meet clients alone. (And he really hasn't been meeting her alone, now, has he?)

You have been putting yourself through a great deal of stress with little to show for your efforts. He's good, I'll give him that. That's why I'm wondering if you can change this pattern?

Just a thought...
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/03/10 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I just find it odd that WH is telling me the truth about stuff that he lied to me about only a few weeks ago (gambling, Dirtbag's OW's). I was wondering if anyone else has had this experience. Is he going through a "honeymoon" phase? Is this something that even happens? Not sure what to think!

My WX did this. I think it is part of the desire to stop what he was doing. I think he told me things in order to be sort of accountable to me. I've even heard him tell friends that any time a woman hit on him he would come home and tell me about it to keep himself in check. And he OFTEN told me details about friends or workmates of his who were doing terrible things. I think he also did it to bolster his believablity as the faithful husband.

The fact is though that even if he IS sorry about what he has done (and thus trying to be honest with you now) he has still done it a he needs to come clean. I can't get past DBs comment to your WH 'are you going to F her again.' Again. He did he it---I feel sure.

I can't remember...is there anyway you can install a keylogger on his computer? Or does he even get on a computer at home? That is where I got my best intel.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/03/10 08:53 PM
@MaritalBliss - Yes, I'm certain you are right about him liking something a little different every once in awhile and feeling entitled to it. I know he will not stop this behavior until forced to do so (and maybe not even then). Since I am finding this out only AFTER his last daliance with OW, I have not yet been able to catch him. So, yes, things are on hold but only because of timing. I am just waiting until his next episode and hope that I get what I need to catch him and confront him (via the VAR in his car). He goes out with OW about every 3 months or so. The last meeting was March 19 so he's due. I just have to bide my time. If she wasn't out of town, she might have been invited along with him and Dirtbag yesterday.

@SmilingWoman - Interesting that your XW did this too. I have wondered if he is starting to give me a dose of the truth in order to more easily set up his next meeting with OW (get me to trust him and feel comfortable about him going out with her). Yes, he does have to come clean with me about the past but that will only happen once I get proof and make him come clean about what he's been doing. The "you know you are going to try to F her again" comment tells me what I need to know but WH will twist it and lie about it since he answered that comment with a joke. If I can get a recording of him and OW talking, he will not be able to get around that. All in due time though.

I can install keylogger on his computer but it would likely be a waste of time and money. I have him on recording telling Dirtbag how you NEVER do anything on email or Facebook because it can be used against you. Funny how he specifically said that Facebook and email have ruined many marriages and that divorce lawyers love having this technology to use because it's so helpful. I guess he's thought about this a lot, huh? Anyway, he told Dirtbag to only talk to his OW on the phone - he stressed that. Which tells me that I'm not going to get much from email which makes the VAR my best, if not my only, hope in catching him.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/03/10 09:13 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I can install keylogger on his computer but it would likely be a waste of time and money. I have him on recording telling Dirtbag how you NEVER do anything on email or Facebook because it can be used against you. Funny how he specifically said that Facebook and email have ruined many marriages and that divorce lawyers love having this technology to use because it's so helpful. I guess he's thought about this a lot, huh? Anyway, he told Dirtbag to only talk to his OW on the phone - he stressed that. Which tells me that I'm not going to get much from email which makes the VAR my best, if not my only, hope in catching him.

The evidence I got via the keylogger was Instant Messaging chats between him and his OWs. You might be surprised the mistakes he will make even though he thinks he is so smart. You also never know what site he might visit that will aid you in other ways of catching him. And tell you LOTS about what he is up to. For instance, one of the sites my WH went to was the state child support site that lists the amount he would have to pay me.

Anyway, I definitely think you are being smart and I think trying to discuss changing his behavior at this point (as someone suggested asking him to not take OW out alone) will only clue him in to the fact that you are probably suspicious and he needs to be more careful.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/03/10 10:53 PM
Good point, SmilingWoman. It can't hurt and I might get something. Plus, that would cover me if he happens to get on to me and changes his password. I will do that the next chance I get.

Thanks for the kind words, as always. I have no intention of living this way long term and am just trying to proceed the best way under these difficult circumstances. Right now my focus is to work on Plan A, make our marriage/family life as appealing as possile and snoop, snoop, SNOOP!
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/06/10 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Good point, SmilingWoman. It can't hurt and I might get something. Plus, that would cover me if he happens to get on to me and changes his password. I will do that the next chance I get.

Thanks for the kind words, as always. I have no intention of living this way long term and am just trying to proceed the best way under these difficult circumstances. Right now my focus is to work on Plan A, make our marriage/family life as appealing as possile and snoop, snoop, SNOOP!

Sounds like a good plan. Did you get anything new this week so far?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/07/10 01:20 PM
Not a thing! WH has been really busy at work. When he's busy or on a deadline, there is less activity. I know he talked to Dirtbag this week but he was in his office for that phone call. Otherwise, all is quiet.

I haven't installed keylogger because I haven't had access to the computer this week. I should be able to get to it next week.

Thanks for checking in - you are so sweet to ask how it's going. Nice to know that good people are thinking of me!
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/10/10 06:00 PM
I'm considering confronting WH with the little evidence I have. It doesn't look like I'm going to get the proof I need any time soon - maybe in another month but maybe not even then. Any thoughts about this? It feels like it would be a big mistake but I don't know what to do anymore. Things are at a standstill and have been for well over a month. I've been so patient but I'm still no closer to actual proof than I was three weeks ago. I can't help but think that it would be better to work through my frustration and continue to gather evidence. I'm not looking for anyone to tell me what to do, rather trying to weigh the pros and cons before I make my decision.
Posted By: MargieLoll Re: I Need Help! - 05/10/10 06:02 PM
I'm in the same boat right now. Some evidence but not quite enough to nail him to the wall. I feel like the little bit I have could be explained away, then he'll know I'm snooping and just be sneakier, all before I found something concrete...

I feel ya, sorry no advice...
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 05/10/10 06:13 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I'm considering confronting WH with the little evidence I have. It doesn't look like I'm going to get the proof I need any time soon - maybe in another month but maybe not even then. Any thoughts about this? It feels like it would be a big mistake but I don't know what to do anymore. Things are at a standstill and have been for well over a month. I've been so patient but I'm still no closer to actual proof than I was three weeks ago. I can't help but think that it would be better to work through my frustration and continue to gather evidence. I'm not looking for anyone to tell me what to do, rather trying to weigh the pros and cons before I make my decision.

This is strictly from where I sit, Anne, so take it for what it's worth: I suspect you may have a husband with a wayward/entitlement mentality. This chick is obviously not the "love of his life" or your sleuthing would have outed him by now. Rather, I worry that he is one of those spouses who just take the opportunity here and there, when it comes up, to have something a little different to add some spice to his life. puke Requisite 'barf' icon for that.

So, if that's the case, what do YOU think you can do? Can you ride this out, continuing to snoop, waiting to catch him? Whether it be this skank or some other? You've seen that that may take some time. And while that's going on, life is going on as well. Which may be good or bad: the good being that maybe he's sewn a few wild oats (more barf) and is settling down. Or, the bad thing: he liked sewing his oats and will do it again.

You've shown tremendous patience, and I admire you for that. I wouldn't blame you if you're ready to move to the next level, whatever that may be.

If it were me: I would lay out everything I've found so far and just let the chips fall where they may. I'll bet the farm that he denies denies denies, and spins the whole thing on his loser friend. So you probably won't get a confession. You will put him on notice that you're snooping, so come right out with that and tell him that you're keeping an eye on his activities.

Note that I said "if it were me". Because I don't think I could have had the patience that you've displayed and I probably would have sat him down with my limited intel by now, letting him know that I'm conscious of questionable activities on his part and that they make me uncomfortable.

You may never know what happened with Butter Face. But he will probably not have anything more to do with her.

Then maybe the two of you can work on strengthening your M.

Just my two bits.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/10/10 06:51 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I'm considering confronting WH with the little evidence I have. It doesn't look like I'm going to get the proof I need any time soon - maybe in another month but maybe not even then. Any thoughts about this? It feels like it would be a big mistake but I don't know what to do anymore. Things are at a standstill and have been for well over a month. I've been so patient but I'm still no closer to actual proof than I was three weeks ago. I can't help but think that it would be better to work through my frustration and continue to gather evidence. I'm not looking for anyone to tell me what to do, rather trying to weigh the pros and cons before I make my decision.

I don't know Anne. You are in a tough spot. I suspect my own now XH was once just like your WH is now. With, like MaritalBliss says, the entitlement mentality...I now know that over the course of our 26 year marriage there were many many such incidents as the one you discovered with your XH and this OW. I think it is a character issue more than a wayward issue. Meaning....it is more that he lacks morals than that he became an alien by getting involved with an OW. I would hate for you to spend the next 10-15 years trying to be a good wife only to find out he never really changed and in fact got worse.

Your WH is already cautious about leaving a trail of any kind. I would definitely install a GOOD keylogger on his computer and see what you get there before I let him know I suspected anything. He will lock everything down so tight you will get nothing once he realizes you suspect him. Oh he may even behave for a while...but honestly....I am more inclined to believe he will not really change.

One thing you might do before confronting him is to write down your expectations moving forward. Can you live with the kind of man he has revealed himself to be? What do you need from him in order to feel safe in your marriage? I would start with insisting he get rid of DB and not take female clients out without you...and NEVER take BF out again EVER.. If you think through what you will need...you will probably know which things he will agree to and which things he won't. That will tell you a lot about how serious he will be about saving your marriage.

And if you do confront him....maybe don't reveal your source. Bluff him. Just look him dead in the eye and say, 'I know. Don't try to deny it because I KNOW you had sex with BF.'

I sure feel for ya. It is bad enough no matter what....but being pregnant adds so much pressure. (((hugs)))


Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/10/10 09:18 PM
Thanks for the great advice and the valid points. Looks like my decision was made for me. I read WH's emails for the day and he's invited OW (ButterFace) to lunch at 12:30 on Wednesday. She said that would be perfect because she "wanted to bounce something off of you (that's not appropriate for email)." Interesting, huh?

I'm not going to get my hopes up too high because they probably won't be in the same car together so the VAR won't do much good. My best hope is that he decides to talk to Dirtbag about this in the car on the way home. Since something is happening this week, there is no way I'm confronting.

Here is a thought (again, you all give such good insight): Should I make a point to call him during the time I know he's at lunch with her? You know, one of those "I love you and am thinking about you calls"? What do you think?

He's been talking about getting back on his diet so I'm going to make a point to ask him every day what he had for lunch and see what he says on Wednesday. That sounds reasonable, doesn't it?
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/10/10 10:22 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Thanks for the great advice and the valid points. Looks like my decision was made for me. I read WH's emails for the day and he's invited OW (ButterFace) to lunch at 12:30 on Wednesday. She said that would be perfect because she "wanted to bounce something off of you (that's not appropriate for email)." Interesting, huh?

I'm not going to get my hopes up too high because they probably won't be in the same car together so the VAR won't do much good. My best hope is that he decides to talk to Dirtbag about this in the car on the way home. Since something is happening this week, there is no way I'm confronting.

Here is a thought (again, you all give such good insight): Should I make a point to call him during the time I know he's at lunch with her? You know, one of those "I love you and am thinking about you calls"? What do you think?

He's been talking about getting back on his diet so I'm going to make a point to ask him every day what he had for lunch and see what he says on Wednesday. That sounds reasonable, doesn't it?

I wouldn't. Although I did do crazy stuff when I knew and he didn't yet know I knew. I invited him to a special Sunday service....and he went!

And I had an old cell phone of his that I was getting all his incoming texts on. One day when he and OW (a now former friend's wife--the OW who first brought me to MB) were carrying on a suggestive conversation via text and I kept calling him at work--something I rarely did. I would be just as sweet and kind. I was doing it to blow his mind though. I don't recommend it and I don't really know what your motives are. You really need some evidence I think you should play this very low key until you get what you need.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/10/10 10:24 PM
I sure wish you could hire a PI to follow them.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 05/10/10 10:30 PM
Darn, Anne. If I lived near you I would go to that restaurant and spy on them for you! Is there anyone who can do that for you that he wouldn't recognize?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/10/10 11:28 PM
My thinking in calling is to see if he would even pick up the phone during that time. Also, I would like to put a scare into him and seeing my number pop up during lunch with ButterFace might do that. I'll leave it alone though and hope he gives her a ride or that he at least talks to Dirtbag about what happened over lunch. I am dying to know what she wants to "bounce off him" that is "inappropriate for email." What sucks is that I may never know!

The PI is not really an option because of money. As for having someone who doesn't know him follow him, that probably won't work either because they are meeting near her office which is an hour away from where we live. I don't know of anyone who could do that during the middle of the day. Boy Maritalbliss, I sure do wish you lived near me!!!

I'm going to be sure to have fresh batteries in the VAR. I hope the static I sometimes get doesn't drown out anything important. That happens sometimes when he is travelling at high speeds.

Thanks for your support ladies. Please pray I get something that will help me move forward (one way or another). I'm so ready for it.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/11/10 12:15 AM
Originally Posted by anne505
The PI is not really an option because of money. As for having someone who doesn't know him follow him, that probably won't work either because they are meeting near her office which is an hour away from where we live. I don't know of anyone who could do that during the middle of the day. Boy Maritalbliss, I sure do wish you lived near me!!!

I'm going to be sure to have fresh batteries in the VAR. I hope the static I sometimes get doesn't drown out anything important. That happens sometimes when he is travelling at high speeds.

Thanks for your support ladies. Please pray I get something that will help me move forward (one way or another). I'm so ready for it.

I remember well how it feels waiting to see what my keylogger or VAR would tell me. I could barely wait for WH to get out of the house in the morning so I could check the previous evening's keylogger. It was a sickening feeling. But I knew I had to have the evidence to keep me from ever believing his lies and excuses and explanations again. The day I read a chat between my cousin and him that proved beyond a doubt they had slept together I nearly fell to my kneeds thanking God for the clarity He had given me.

Your patience is incredible. I will definitely pray for you to get what you need.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 05/11/10 12:19 AM
Okay, I've been gnawing on this. You know, Anne, what if you did this? "How was your day, honey?" :::natter natter natter:::
"Oh, that's great, WH. So what did you have for lunch?"

And then find out what he says. Maybe you can get an opening there. Maybe he'll lie. Maybe he'll tell the truth. Or at least give you something to start a dialogue with.

Because I'm starting to think the time has come to let all the cats out of the bag. I don't think this is healthy for you at all.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/11/10 02:35 AM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Okay, I've been gnawing on this. You know, Anne, what if you did this? "How was your day, honey?" :::natter natter natter:::
"Oh, that's great, WH. So what did you have for lunch?"

And then find out what he says. Maybe you can get an opening there. Maybe he'll lie. Maybe he'll tell the truth. Or at least give you something to start a dialogue with.

Because I'm starting to think the time has come to let all the cats out of the bag. I don't think this is healthy for you at all.

I don't think it is healthy either...but most people can't fathom the kind of liar that her WH appears to be. He reminds me so much of my WXH.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/11/10 02:07 PM
I'm going to ask him about lunch for sure. No matter what he says about lunch tomorrow, I will wait to see what the VAR says. I might not get anything since she won't be in the car with him but I need to check it out. Also, I am hoping that he will talk to Dirtbag about it sometime this week.

My situation is most certainly NOT healthy and I know that. I am in therapy and my mom knows so I do have a support system. Also I am drawing strength from my children, especially the one on the way. I am doing what I need to do to prepare for a future with or without WH. If nothing else, I need solid proof for divorce proceedings.

Thanks for the prayers and kinds thoughts. That is part of what is getting me through these hard times.
Posted By: MargieLoll Re: I Need Help! - 05/11/10 02:17 PM
You say you get static on the VAR sometimes at high speeds? What about when/if the radio is loud? I guess if he's talking with the radio loud, he would be louder to, huh?
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/11/10 03:46 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I'm going to ask him about lunch for sure. No matter what he says about lunch tomorrow, I will wait to see what the VAR says. I might not get anything since she won't be in the car with him but I need to check it out. Also, I am hoping that he will talk to Dirtbag about it sometime this week.

My situation is most certainly NOT healthy and I know that. I am in therapy and my mom knows so I do have a support system. Also I am drawing strength from my children, especially the one on the way. I am doing what I need to do to prepare for a future with or without WH. If nothing else, I need solid proof for divorce proceedings.

Thanks for the prayers and kinds thoughts. That is part of what is getting me through these hard times.

It will be good if you ask him about lunch and he lies. Carefully observe his body language when you know for a fact he is lying. It will be very helpful for you in the future.

I am curious if you have ever expressed concern about him taking women to lunch and dinner alone---or is it seen as a normal part of his business?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/11/10 04:40 PM
He turns the radio off when he talks in the car. I think the static comes from the wind and road noise you get at higher speeds.

I am going to watch closely when I ask about lunch. I know some of the signs that he's lying but there might be some I've missed.

I haven't expressed concern about him taking a woman out because I've always trusted him. He knows I trust him so it was never a big deal. Since he always referred to her as a client, I thought it was okay. Now I know better. He has used my trust against me which I gather is fairly common among waywards. Now I'm using the fact that he trusts me to aid in my snooping. What comes around, goes around, right?
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/12/10 01:02 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
He turns the radio off when he talks in the car. I think the static comes from the wind and road noise you get at higher speeds.

I am going to watch closely when I ask about lunch. I know some of the signs that he's lying but there might be some I've missed.

I haven't expressed concern about him taking a woman out because I've always trusted him. He knows I trust him so it was never a big deal. Since he always referred to her as a client, I thought it was okay. Now I know better. He has used my trust against me which I gather is fairly common among waywards. Now I'm using the fact that he trusts me to aid in my snooping. What comes around, goes around, right?

Yes, true. On all counts.

I woke up thinking about you today. I am hopeful for some really good intel today. And I hope I don't come across as hoping he is proved a liar....but it seems easier to prove that someone IS a liar and a cheat than it is to prove they AREN'T a liar and a cheat.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/12/10 05:53 PM
Thanks SmilingWoman, your messages are always so nice. I know what you mean that you are not hoping he is a liar. We both know that he has already been proven a liar, I just need proof of the extent of his lies. I'm praying for good intel today. They should be having their "lunch" as we speak. Whatever happens, knowing has to be better than living like this (once I get past the inital shock anyway). I am ready to move forward. I keep trying to remind myself that I might not get the intel from today and might need to be even more patient than I've previously been. Hope for the best but prepare for the worse, right?

Thanks for checking in on me. You've been more helpful to me than you will ever know. It's nice to know that someone is thinking of me on this difficult day.
Posted By: schtoop Re: I Need Help! - 05/12/10 06:07 PM
I'm still very worried about you, Anne.

You've been unbelievably strong sitting on this while trying to get confirmation, but I'm very worried about what the wondering and snooping is getting to you inside.

It sounds like a very dangerous place to me when you're actually HOPING to find proof of an affair. If that proof doesn't come, then the cycle of uncertainty continues. And, as long as that cycle continues your love bank balance is taking hit after hit.

We all agree that your husband has undoubtedly been engaging in inappropriate independent behavior, including lies, that is damaging to the marriage. And, what about the small possibility that the physical affair hasn't happened yet?

I'm more and more of the opinion that you need to lay all of your cards on the table and soon. I don't think bluffing is a good idea, if he's as good at lying and gaslighting as you think he will call you on it. Also, state what you know without giving up your sources.

He may be able to defend all of his actions individually, but together they paint a picture of a marriage that needs help and maybe you can parlay that into get him reading MB material such as HNHN.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: I Need Help! - 05/12/10 07:09 PM
((hugs)) anne.

I admire your calm approach. I hope you get what you need.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/12/10 07:20 PM
Schtoop - Thank you for your concern. I really do appreciate it. This is very difficult but I am coping. The bottom line is that I have been at this for two months and I am not going to blow it now. My husband is an excellent liar and must be confronted with as much proof as possible. Whether this confrontation will lead to recovery or to divorce court remains to be seen. Either way, I need more information. I simply can not proceed with what I have.

Lexxxy - Thank you. You have no idea what your words mean to me.

I checked his credit card statement and they went to lunch at a place very close to where she works so it's my guess they walked. I was hoping he would give her a ride but it doesn't look like it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he talked to her on the phone in his car. I've already decided that if I don't get what I need from today's lunch date, I will wait it out until I get my proof. That might not make sense to many of you but it's what I need to do.
Posted By: schtoop Re: I Need Help! - 05/12/10 07:25 PM
I do understand and it makes sense.

If you are coping and can hang in there a little longer, then by all means do it.

Just try to keep up with meeting EN's and avoiding lovebusters while you wait. I know how hard that is when one is increasingly bitter and resentful inside.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: I Need Help! - 05/12/10 07:31 PM
Anne --

I totally understand your reasons. I've also had experience with that type of man who can weasel out of anything.
You can have drop dead proof -- and he would still try to come up with an angle.

Get what you need.

You certainly don't seem like you are on the edge of a breaking point. Like I said -- I greatly admire your calm strength!
Good for you!

Too many women jump too early with accusations, then find themselve gaslight for months. And then it is just THAT MUCH HARDER to get the proof you need.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/13/10 02:08 AM
Originally Posted by anne505
Schtoop -
I've already decided that if I don't get what I need from today's lunch date, I will wait it out until I get my proof. That might not make sense to many of you but it's what I need to do.

Makes perfect sense to me. And I also don't feel like you are on the verge of breaking. It is amazing what you get used to living with this type of personality. I had to suffer through many many weeks of knowing without telling him what I knew and how I knew it.

My sister was visiting from out of state when I found out the last of the info that pushed me over the edge. I kept everything to myself for 10 days until she went home and then told my WH and my family what I'd found. That has been almost a year....the other day my mom told me that haunts her....that I held that in to not ruin my sister's visit....Honestly....that wasn't that difficult for me. I think it would have been more difficult to ruin my sister's visit. One just gets used to dealing with unfathomable realities.

One year later----I'm good. You will be too Anne.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/13/10 03:01 PM
You're right, I'm not on the verge of breaking. I know that my patience will pay off in the long run. This is just a nasty fact of my life now but one with which I must deal. I have to say that this is showing me a strength that I never knew I had. If I can make it through this, I can do anything.

I didn't get what I needed yesterday. I can add a few more lies to the mix but no actual proof. I sent him an email yesterday morning telling him I loved him. I do this sometimes so it doesn't look weird that I did it yesterday. I also sent an email about school stuff and referenced the school email when he got home. The minute I said "email", he jumped and said he didn't check email today which is a lie because I checked his email and I know he read them. Very interesting to see his reaction to that. Now he just sent me a response to my "I love you" email which says, "Just seeing this !!!!!! Thank you so much for being my wife. I am very happy to be having a lil girl with you and the boys! You know I love you guys more than life itself." Is this man a good liar or what?

When I asked what he had for lunch, he told me and I asked him where he went. He said he got a call from ButterFace and had lunch with her (another lie since I know he invited her to lunch on Monday). Does he really think I'm so stupid to think she just happened to call him on the one day he would be near her office (their offices are an hour away from each other). Jeez. Anyway, he told me she is thinking of changing jobs so this might be what she wanted to "bounce off of him". The job would have her working closer to home (also closer to our home). Also, he said he needs to get his presentation in for her business and I said "You haven't done that yet? I thought that's what that night a few months ago was all about and that it was already done." Then he talked about how busy everyone is. I knew he didn't do the presentation yet but I just wanted to see what he would say when I brought up the last time they went out. He acted nervous and slightly defensive.

Here is what I got from the VAR. As I feared, they walked to lunch so she was not in his car. Anyway, as he got out of the car, he said to himself "I'm gonna get lucky." When he got back in the car after lunch, he muttered her name and then something I couldn't make out under his breath. Now, as for whether or not he got lucky, I don't know. If he did, it had to be in the restaurant or bathroom (which is completely possible, I know). But, I don't think anything happened because he talked to Dirtbag Friend on the way home and told him he had lunch with her. I'm inclined to believe (but understand I could be wrong) that he would have mentioned anything that would have resulted in him "getting lucky" during lunch. What fun is cheating on your wife and getting some at lunch if you can't brag to your friends, right?

So, once again, a lot of drama over nothing. However, he did tell Dirtbag that he invited her out to gamble with them but she was not interested. She does want to go out with them but not to gamble. WH made a joke that she wants to get "double dutched".

Here is a rethorical question for you. What kind of woman thinks it's okay to hang out with two married men? Doesn't that raise any red flags for her? And why would you seek advice from your married "friend with benefits" about changing jobs. Shouldn't this be a red flag to WH that she thinks enough of him to get his opinion and maybe has feelings for him? Or am I overthinking this?

I'm doing okay today. Disappointed but determined. Thanks for all the support I get here. I know my situation is not exactly typical and kind of strange and I think you all for helping me to navigate my way through it.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 05/13/10 04:16 PM
Ok, weird affair stuff possibility aside (I'm not discounting it, just putting it aside for the moment), is it possible that he and Butterface could be in on some below-the-radar, even slightly illegal money making scheme? That might account for the "I'm gonna get lucky" statement. And not sharing it with dirtbag.

The whole situation stinks, Anne. And it's not right in the least. But I have been wondering if he's trying to do some business (and I'm not talking sex-related business) with this woman on the side...stuff his company would NOT like.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/13/10 04:23 PM
OurHouse - They are lawyers so I don't think it's even possible for them to do any business under the table. The phrase "friends with benefits" has come up about ButterFace as well as one of Dirtbag's women (there are several). That is what is going on here but I don't have enough to prove it. Thanks, though, for showing me a possible explanation. It's good to know what I might face when this comes out in the open. I'm sure WH will have an entire bag of lies ready to go when I confront.

I think Dirtbag said it best when he asked if I knew they were going out. WH said "Yes, she knows, I am trying to get business from her." Dirtbag said "I'm sure she does but does she know what kind of business. You know you are trying to [censored] her again." That tells me what I need to know although it doesn't give me proof.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/13/10 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
OurHouse - They are lawyers so I don't think it's even possible for them to do any business under the table. The phrase "friends with benefits" has come up about ButterFace as well as one of Dirtbag's women (there are several). That is what is going on here but I don't have enough to prove it. Thanks, though, for showing me a possible explanation. It's good to know what I might face when this comes out in the open. I'm sure WH will have an entire bag of lies ready to go when I confront.

I think Dirtbag said it best when he asked if I knew they were going out. WH said "Yes, she knows, I am trying to get business from her." Dirtbag said "I'm sure she does but does she know what kind of business. You know you are trying to [censored] her again." That tells me what I need to know although it doesn't give me proof.

I don't have much time to post but wanted to let you know I read your update and I'm thinking about you. Keep up the work.....I think you will eventually get proof. I do think you might need to consider getting a PI (even if you have to borrow the money)...but I would get one lined up and then the next time you know he is going to see her have him followed.

I will admit he is slippery....and showing more and more that he is a practiced liar. Sounds creepily familiar to me.

(((Anne)))
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/13/10 06:07 PM
Thanks SmilingWoman. I know you speak from experience. I will get my proof...eventually. He can't be careful all the time. He is an expert liar, isn't he? His email to me made me sick. How do you go about finding a PI?

The more I listen to the way he said her name after he got back in the car, the more I think something did happen or maybe she teased him. It's the tone he said it with that is so disturbing. I wish I could figure out the few words he says after he says her name.

I'm getting a microphone for the VAR that is supposed to reduce background noise. I hope it helps. I'm sending a money order for the keylogger software (so glad you can do it that way). I should be able to get it on his computer Monday night.

One other thing...guess who was checking out the Ashley Madison Agency website earlier this week. Oh yeah...I'm getting keylogger!!!
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 05/13/10 06:18 PM
Quote
One other thing...guess who was checking out the Ashley Madison Agency website earlier this week. Oh yeah...I'm getting keylogger!!!

Oh Anne...ewwwwwww

What a piece of slime! We all know AM is for one thing, and one thing only. I'd love to be able to see him explain that away!

Any way you can preserve that browser history for your files?

Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/13/10 06:46 PM
I'm afraid I already know how he will explain it. On the VAR, I heard him listening to talk radio last week on the way to work. They were talking about Ashley Madison and how it's become so popular, especially with newly married women. He will just say he heard them talk about it and looked at it out of curiosity.

I think I am starting to learn to stay one step ahead of him.

I would love to hear how he could explain away the "I'm going to get lucky" comment before meeting ButterFace. But, he's good and I'm sure he would find a way. Maybe he got lucky finding by getting a good parking spot in the city. Oh yeah, I'm learning his ways!
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 05/13/10 07:25 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I'm afraid I already know how he will explain it. On the VAR, I heard him listening to talk radio last week on the way to work. They were talking about Ashley Madison and how it's become so popular, especially with newly married women. He will just say he heard them talk about it and looked at it out of curiosity.

I think I am starting to learn to stay one step ahead of him.

I would love to hear how he could explain away the "I'm going to get lucky" comment before meeting ButterFace. But, he's good and I'm sure he would find a way. Maybe he got lucky finding by getting a good parking spot in the city. Oh yeah, I'm learning his ways!

Good for you! My first response to your Ashley Madison comment was "Well, I never had any interest in checking it out the first time I heard of it!" But you're right, he sounds like he could spin just about anything.

Hang in there, Anne - your tenacity is second to none!
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/13/10 07:30 PM
The PI I hired was worthless. After I had my evidence I filed for divorce. My attorney told me that the PI I chose (out of the phone book) was an X-cop and said he never did good for anyone....in my fact my attorney sued him on behalf of another client for take his client's money and giving nothing in the way of services. Anyway, all that to say that my attorney said if I had just come to him FIRST he would have given the name of a good PI. And in fact Anne, I definitely think you should consult attorney just to educate yourself...I bet he will have a good recommendation on a PI.

I don't remember if you've said before or not...but how did you get suspicious of your WH in the first place?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/13/10 08:58 PM
@MaritalBliss - Yes, he is good at spinning. Which is why I have to be good at predicting his actions as well as his words. I'm getting better at it.

@SmilingWoman - Good idea to get a PI from an attorney. I had already thought of that knowing that WH is an attorney and works with PIs sometimes. I started my financial file which I will need when I speak to an attorney. Once bills and statements come in, I put them away. Once I have everything, I can consider speaking with an attorney.

I got a little bit suspicious back in November when he went out with her and gave her a ride in my car but lied about why he took my car. I know for a fact he gave her a ride but he simply would not say it and started to get defensive. Honestly, I didn't think much too about it. I thought it was weird that he wouldn't just tell me. Now I know why.

When they went out in March, he was out really late which I thought was odd since A, she's a "client" and B, we had our son's birthday party the next day. So I texted him asking him if he was coming home (he will sometimes crash at his mom's house when he goes out drinking so he doesn't have to drive). He got so angry at me for texting him. One of the first things he said to me when he finally got home was "Don't you trust me?" He also wouldn't come near me or hug me (since he didn't have a chance to shower first, I'm sure...eeeewwww). He told me he was out late because his friends happend to call him and be nearby so they stopped in to have a drink with him and his client. I knew the way he was acting was not right and that I was seeing some pretty severe red flags.

So the next day, I got into his email and saw the "You know you are going to try to [censored] her again" email as well as one that said "Are you planning to [censored] ButterFace Friday night?" and that he and the friends had been planning the night out for a week.

I wish I had been more aware before March. I'm sure I would have seen many more red flags. Until very recently, I did trust him and thought there was no way he would jeopardize our life together. I could not have been more wrong. What hurts is that he's been using my trust against me all this time.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/14/10 12:14 AM
Originally Posted by anne505
Until very recently, I did trust him and thought there was no way he would jeopardize our life together. I could not have been more wrong. What hurts is that he's been using my trust against me all this time.

This jumped out at me. I realize that I didn't particularly trust Wxh, as much as I depended on him not being foolish enough to jeopardize our life together. He has always been very fond of his/our material things and I just thought he wouldn't risk giving up half of it in a divorce. What I didn't understand was that he thought I cared about our lifestyle as much as he did...he thought I'd never divorce him even if I caught him. I think he is still shell shocked that I just kicked him to the curb.

You said your mom knows? How is she holding up? I did not tell a single soul until I had enough to file for divorce. In fact, I filed first and then told my parents.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/14/10 04:00 PM
SmilingWoman - It's not the material posessions he values but our family. I never thought he would risk losing his family. Before I found out what was going on, I would have been telling you what an amazing husband and father he is. He just seems so "all in" about the family life and I really thought it made him happy. I guess the three of us (soon to be four) are not enough for him.

My mom does know. I had to tell her because she wanted to make me and WH medical power of attorney now that she is sick (breast cancer). I couldn't let her do that so I told her what was going on. She has been so supportive and it's really nice to be able to call her and talk to her about this. She's shocked, that's for sure. But she is also angry and hopes I find a way to "nail him to the wall" (her words, not mine). She and I are both going through a very rough time so it's good that we have each other. I'm also in therapy which helps a great deal.

I'm sorry you had to go through your ordeal alone. That must have been so hard. You have been such a help to me. I am so greatful to you!
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/16/10 10:22 PM
Is this proof? WH told Dirtbag on the phone that he was going to play a practical joke on him. He was going to tell Dirtbag that I'm pregnant by scanning my baby's ultrasound picture and typing ButterFace's name over mine and showing it to Dirtbag and saying "I'm f*cked. This is why I had lunch with her two days ago." What do you think?
Posted By: HalfUnit Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/16/10 10:56 PM
The keylogger is wonderful as far as finding out info. It only takes minutes to install and cannot be traced. Trust me if I can install it any one can!!!! Set up an e-mail account to have everything forwarded to. Remember to erase ALL history, every time you are on the computer.

Think of it this way. You are worried about setting up a keylogger on his computer because it is a work computer...hmmm doesn't seem to worry him to use it for NON work related "business" and planning on having sex with a potential client seems to be unethical.

It was the best money I ever spent (under $100). To this day I check it daily and each day that he is honest is a day closer to me healing. Sorry, but I looked at this as a war and I planned on winning.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/16/10 11:57 PM
I sent a money order for the keylogger software on Friday. I will get it installed as soon as I hear from them.

I really want to hear what everyone thinks of the lastest that WH told Dirtbag Friend on the phone that he was going to play a practical joke on him. He was going to tell Dirtbag that I'm pregnant by scanning my baby's ultrasound picture and typing ButterFace's name over mine and showing it to Dirtbag and saying "I'm f*cked. This is why I had lunch with her two days ago." After he had fun tricking Dirtbag into thinking that ButterFace is pregnant, he was going to let him know it's actually me. What do you think?
Posted By: OurHouse Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/17/10 12:42 AM
Even if he's trying to get a rise out of Dirtbag and/or gain acceptance into the cheater's club without actually having cheated (doubtful), I think this is indicative of complete insensitivity and lack of morals on his part.

I can't in a million years imagine my husband doing something like this and I don't have a whole lot of wonderful things to say about him these days.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/17/10 02:23 AM
Originally Posted by anne505
I sent a money order for the keylogger software on Friday. I will get it installed as soon as I hear from them.

I really want to hear what everyone thinks of the lastest that WH told Dirtbag Friend on the phone that he was going to play a practical joke on him. He was going to tell Dirtbag that I'm pregnant by scanning my baby's ultrasound picture and typing ButterFace's name over mine and showing it to Dirtbag and saying "I'm f*cked. This is why I had lunch with her two days ago." After he had fun tricking Dirtbag into thinking that ButterFace is pregnant, he was going to let him know it's actually me. What do you think?

It is proof enough for me. I can see that he would try to spin it....but if YOU are really convinced it is proof just stand firm and say "I know you have cheated on me with her." Whether he admits it or spins it as just joking will be a good indicator as to whether you want to repair the marriage and stay or kick him to the curb.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/17/10 01:13 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I sent a money order for the keylogger software on Friday. I will get it installed as soon as I hear from them.

I really want to hear what everyone thinks of the lastest that WH told Dirtbag Friend on the phone that he was going to play a practical joke on him. He was going to tell Dirtbag that I'm pregnant by scanning my baby's ultrasound picture and typing ButterFace's name over mine and showing it to Dirtbag and saying "I'm f*cked. This is why I had lunch with her two days ago." After he had fun tricking Dirtbag into thinking that ButterFace is pregnant, he was going to let him know it's actually me. What do you think?

It's not quite a smoking gun. He can still spin this. "Oh, honey, I was joking when I told him we had sex!"
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/17/10 02:44 PM
This latest development confirms what I already knew. However, Maritalbliss is right, he can spin it. He's very good at that. Because he is so careful and so good at spinning, I feel the need to get creative with my snooping in order to get proof. Here is an idea I had. I know you will all tell me what you think and help me figure out what to do.

I get a prepaid phone and call OW. I give her a fake name and tell her that I thinik we are seeing the same man and see if I can get her to talk about it. The idea being that OW does know he's married but might not like it if he was seeing another woman (other than his wife) behind her back. I've heard that makes them really mad to find out that they are not the only OW.

Please know that I'm not thinking of doing this out of craziness. In fact, it's just the opposite. I am being very calm and rational and trying to find a way to get what I need. WH is very good at lying so I need to get better at snooping. I have not made any decisions about this phone call and I'm simply looking for some feedback (the usual pros and cons). I will also gladly accept suggestions.
Posted By: MargieLoll Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/17/10 02:47 PM
Maybe have a friend or family member make the call? Do you know the laws on recording phone calls in your state?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/17/10 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
This latest development confirms what I already knew. However, Maritalbliss is right, he can spin it. He's very good at that. Because he is so careful and so good at spinning, I feel the need to get creative with my snooping in order to get proof. Here is an idea I had. I know you will all tell me what you think and help me figure out what to do.

I get a prepaid phone and call OW. I give her a fake name and tell her that I thinik we are seeing the same man and see if I can get her to talk about it. The idea being that OW does know he's married but might not like it if he was seeing another woman (other than his wife) behind her back. I've heard that makes them really mad to find out that they are not the only OW.

Please know that I'm not thinking of doing this out of craziness. In fact, it's just the opposite. I am being very calm and rational and trying to find a way to get what I need. WH is very good at lying so I need to get better at snooping. I have not made any decisions about this phone call and I'm simply looking for some feedback (the usual pros and cons). I will also gladly accept suggestions.

Hmm. As much as I like the idea of you forcing someone's hand, be it your H or ButterFace, I'd say no to this. You will be creating drama for them, and in a weird way I think it will draw them together as another point of having something (the drama) in common. You don't want them to have anything in common. Because you know her first call will be to him. And he'll know it was you because he knows he's not running with any other women. (I hope!)

And you also don't know the extent of their involvement. Maybe it was a ONS. Maybe it's more. Your call may appear to be fishing for info. I'd wait. Keep it in your back pocket as a possible future idea. I'd really like to see an eventual confrontation, but not with you pretending to be anything other than your H's wife.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/17/10 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Hmm. As much as I like the idea of you forcing someone's hand, be it your H or ButterFace, I'd say no to this. You will be creating drama for them, and in a weird way I think it will draw them together as another point of having something (the drama) in common. You don't want them to have anything in common. Because you know her first call will be to him. And he'll know it was you because he knows he's not running with any other women. (I hope!)

Because WH's Dirtbag friends are so big on pranking each other, there is a very good chance he will think it was one of them having someone make the call rather than assuming it's me. Any time something weird happens, he assumes it's one of them playing a joke on him. Really, they play lots of stupid and sick jokes on one another.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/17/10 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Hmm. As much as I like the idea of you forcing someone's hand, be it your H or ButterFace, I'd say no to this. You will be creating drama for them, and in a weird way I think it will draw them together as another point of having something (the drama) in common. You don't want them to have anything in common. Because you know her first call will be to him. And he'll know it was you because he knows he's not running with any other women. (I hope!)

Because WH's Dirtbag friends are so big on pranking each other, there is a very good chance he will think it was one of them having someone make the call rather than assuming it's me. Any time something weird happens, he assumes it's one of them playing a joke on him. Really, they play lots of stupid and sick jokes on one another.

I just don't think I'd go there right now. Easy enough to do it later, impossible to take it back if you screw any part of it up, KWIM?
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/17/10 03:47 PM
You make a good point Maritalbliss. If I mess up, it could put me in a more difficult situation.

I'm having a really rough day. Hearing him joking about my baby's ultrasound pictures and wanting to use them in that way really hurt. I don't know if there is any hope for my marriage at this point. I don't like or respect him anymore and I think he might be too far gone to change. I hope tomorrow will be a better day.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/17/10 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
You make a good point Maritalbliss. If I mess up, it could put me in a more difficult situation.

I'm having a really rough day. Hearing him joking about my baby's ultrasound pictures and wanting to use them in that way really hurt. I don't know if there is any hope for my marriage at this point. I don't like or respect him anymore and I think he might be too far gone to change. I hope tomorrow will be a better day.

I tend to agree Anne....he is pretty sick. Does he get on his computer much? Maybe the keylogger will yield some non spinnable info.

Again though I'd like to know what your goal is in obtaining absolutely proof? Is it to use in a court of law? Will it help you to have proof? If I were you I would go see an attorney, show him the evidence you have and ask him if you need more to get your best deal in the event of a divorce. If he thinks you need more he might have some ideas on how to get it....a good PI to recommend or something. I know you said funds are tight but I'd borrow money for this....and I think PIs are not always as expensive as we fear.

Back to the need for proof...is it for YOU? Do you doubt what he is really doing? Because if you believe he is a lying cheater....and more proof won't help you in a divorce.....and you think he won't change....then I am not sure you need anything more.

I have to admit absolute proof would be sweet though. It was for me.
Posted By: HalfUnit Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/17/10 05:14 PM
If you ever want to do something like that, use a website called spoofcard (saw it on FOX news). It is less than $5.00 for about 25 minutes. You can call anyone you want, make it look like it is any number you want making the call, change your voice (or leave it the same)and record everything that is said. Granted many states have laws about recording phone calls and it may or may not be admissible in court, but if you are just wanting proof for yourself then it is the cheapest way to go.

When we were having issues with my H's ex not answering our phone calls when she had SS, I bought minutes and made it look like it was another number calling and then changed my voice asking for someone else, then called back using our real number. She would not answer when it was us calling. Bottom line was the attorney used it as proof she was not allowing us to talk to SS.

Legally we could not use the recorded part, but the time stamp part we could. It is just cheaper doing it this way than to buy a prepaid phone for making 1 or 2 calls.

I'm so sorry you are having a bad day. I know it is hard for anyone to go through an A, but you being pregnant just seems so much worse for him to be doing it.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/17/10 05:34 PM
SmilingWoman - He's mostly on his computer at work. When he's at home and needs a computer, he uses his work laptop which he brings home every night now. I sent a money order for the keylogger so there wouldn't be a paper trail. I just have to wait for the company to send me the activation code. I should have it up and running in the next few days, depending on when I get the code and when I get his computer alone for long enough.

I have several reasons for wanting undeniable proof. One is for a possible court case. You can file on grounds of adultery in my state so the more SOLID proof I have, the better my case. I'm putting together a folder of our financial information (there is debt which really stinks but it is what it is) and I am compiling a list of people that they can subpeona to testify about his affair (or affairs, whatever the case may be).

The second reason I need proof is for me. I see now that he has been gaslighting me for months. I let him do it so easily. I've loved and trusted this man for 20 years so if he offers up a reasonable explaination for his actions, then I'm afraid I might just be stupid enough to believe him. If I know he can't explain it away, I won't fall for his lies. I guess I'm trying to protect myself. Because I really don't want to believe all of this is true. It would be so much better if it weren't. But I know it is and I need to remember that. Proof will help me to do so.

The final reason I want proof is so that I can try to figure out how far this goes. Is it a new thing or has it been going on for years? Is she the first OW or one in a string of many? The more I find out on my own, the less I have to rely on him telling me the truth once I confront him. I'm not even sure he knows what the truth is anymore. He just seems to be having so much fun and it makes me sick that it's at the expense of everything I hold dear in my life.

If you'll remember, he is talking about getting together with Dirtbag and ButterFace sometime soon (which probably means in the next month or so). I would hate to screw things up now when I could be so close to getting what I've waited so long for. Today has been one of the worst days I've had in a while. Given my situation, bad days are to be expected and I'm surprised there haven't been more. Tomorrow will be better. Tomorrow my patience will return, my frustration will ease up and my sadness and disbelief will be replaced the strength and resolve I need to get me through this.

As always, thanks for listening. It really helps to have a place to go to speak openly about this. It's part of what gets me through the rough times.

Half Unit - Thanks for that info! That might come in handy someday soon, hopefully sooner rather than later!
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/18/10 12:50 PM
Anne said

>>One is for a possible court case. >>

>>The second reason I need proof is for me.>>

<<<The final reason I want proof is so that I can try to figure out how far this goes. Is it a new thing or has it been going on for years? Is she the first OW or one in a string of many? The more I find out on my own, the less I have to rely on him telling me the truth once I confront him. I'm not even sure he knows what the truth is anymore. He just seems to be having so much fun and it makes me sick that it's at the expense of everything I hold dear in my life.>>


Your reasons above are well thought out and reasonable. You are being very very smart Anne. I really struggled with number 3 and it was only after I made the decision to leave him that I fully 'got' how far it went. A co-worker of my WXH and my own brother told me things that went back to the first year I was married to X. Some people here have said that they should not be telling me that stuff....but it helps me. And since I already had plenty of evidence I never confronted him with the additional stuff I had learned. For two reasons---one-- my brother and the co-worker did not want to have to deal with my XH...I told them both I would honor that request unless a custody battle would make it necessary to have their story told. And the other reason was I just didn't want to hear XH's explanation and spin and denials. He is a proven liar...so why confront him with more stuff.

Again I applaud your calm and cool way of dealing with this. I think of you every day.

Posted By: OurHouse Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/18/10 01:15 PM
T/J

THERE YOU ARE, SW! I had a thread here for you calling you out to TB's thread "New, Blue and in Need of a Clue".

I'll go bump it.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/18/10 01:55 PM
SmilingWoman - Thank you for your kind words and your support. You have no idea how much your posts mean to me. Yesterday was a very difficult day. Knowing that he was going to play a joke that ButterFace/OW is pregnant with his baby using my daughter's ultrasound pictures was one of the hardest things I've had to deal with. The fact that I didn't explode and confront him shows me that I have the strength and patience to handle this the right way.

I purchased a noice cancellation microphone which should help to reduce the background noise on the VAR. It's being shipped later this week. I just hope I ordered the correct adapter for it. The website was a little confusing.

Does anyone know if the free email carriers such as Yahoo! and Hotmail are okay to use for receiveing emails from keylogger software? I was concerned that the size of the files might cause a problem since those have somewhat limited attachment and storage capabilities. This will be on WH's work computer so there is going to be a lot of volume during the day and I don't want to miss anything. Would love to hear if anyone has had experience wiht this.

Today will be a better day.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/18/10 02:05 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
SmilingWoman - Thank you for your kind words and your support. You have no idea how much your posts mean to me. Yesterday was a very difficult day. Knowing that he was going to play a joke that ButterFace/OW is pregnant with his baby using my daughter's ultrasound pictures was one of the hardest things I've had to deal with. The fact that I didn't explode and confront him shows me that I have the strength and patience to handle this the right way.

I purchased a noice cancellation microphone which should help to reduce the background noise on the VAR. It's being shipped later this week. I just hope I ordered the correct adapter for it. The website was a little confusing.

Does anyone know if the free email carriers such as Yahoo! and Hotmail are okay to use for receiveing emails from keylogger software? I was concerned that the size of the files might cause a problem since those have somewhat limited attachment and storage capabilities. This will be on WH's work computer so there is going to be a lot of volume during the day and I don't want to miss anything. Would love to hear if anyone has had experience wiht this.

Today will be a better day.

I used the free Yahoo and didn't have any trouble. It was not XWH's work computer but at times there was A LOT of volume due to the hours he spent looking at porn.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/18/10 02:32 PM
Anne, I used a Yahoo addy too and had no problem. Also, Yahoo has upgraded their storage ability. But Gmail is also a good option.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/18/10 06:52 PM
Smilingwoman & OurHouse - Thanks for the feedback about free email. I'm going to send it to a Yahoo account I opened. Just waiting for the activation code.

Ugh, Dirtbag sent me a congratulations email about the baby. Sometimes I don't know who is worse...WH or Dirtbag. I wonder what they are planning. I tend to get emails from Dirtbag when they have something in the works. I think it makes it more fun for him to somehow incorporate me into their games.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/19/10 12:37 AM
I find that VERY disturbing. Really creeps me out.

Do you find yourself leaning toward not wanting this man (either one actually) in your life?
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/19/10 01:59 PM
I am 100% certain that I do not want Dirtbag in my or my children's life. As for WH, I don't even know who he is anymore so I can't say. I am losing hope every day that he is or ever was the man I thought he was. He will be in my life though since I have children with him. I just need to figure out what role he will play in my life. That's one of the reasons I need to know the truth so badly.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/21/10 03:19 PM
Anything new Anne? Thinking of you this morning.
Posted By: anne505 Re: How do you find the patience? - 05/21/10 09:02 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Anything new Anne? Thinking of you this morning.

Nothing new since the horrible news about the ultrasound picture/joke. He's not at it every day so it makes it hard to get intel. He left his phone at home today so there won't be anything from the VAR which is fine because I got a new microphone for it and I wanted to test it anyway. Still waiting on the code for keylogger but I haven't had access to his laptop all week anyway. He got a virus yesterday so the IT guy will have it. Very lucky that I didn't get to install keylogger earlier this week as I had hoped since the IT guy would surely find it.

It was a very rough week but I'm hanging in there. It helps to know that others are thinking of me. Thanks for checking in. As soon as I find anything else out, I will let you know. Hopefully, that will be soon!
Posted By: marriedguy69 Re: I Need Help! - 05/21/10 10:25 PM
Can someone provide some insight?
Married 8 years, wife and I have become indifferent because of life, routine, etc. She stated wanting to leave because of an emotional affair she started with someone she was working with online (online job-work from home). I contacted gentleman to distance himself since wifey and I decided to seek marriage counseling. He has done so, however wife suspects I may have had something to do with it. She hasnt had the courage to do it herself...should i cop to it?
Posted By: marriedguy69 Re: I Need Help! - 05/21/10 10:28 PM
Its been 2 years now since she first mentioned leaving yet, she has done nothing to move in that direction except maintain distant relations with this gentleman. she also says her wanting to leave has nothing to do with him. I believe in the beginning that was the case however, 2 yrs later, i dont believe that.
Posted By: marriedguy69 Re: I Need Help! - 05/21/10 10:29 PM
if she wanted to leave regardless of him, wouldnt she have done so already? its two years later.
Posted By: saynomore Re: I Need Help! - 05/21/10 10:37 PM
Hi Marriedguy,

I am so sorry that you find yourself to be a member of this club that no one wants to join. You really need to start your own thread to get any attention to your situation and also to not threadjack Annie's thread.

Please read all of the info on the site and go through other threads where you will likely find similiar situations. Include such info as yours and your WW's ages, when married, children, how you discovered the A. Things are kind of slow on the weekends so be patient. You are in a good place to get help with your M.

God's blessings,

Say
Posted By: marriedguy69 Re: I Need Help! - 05/21/10 10:39 PM
so sorry for the lack of etiquette, sorry annie
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/25/10 08:17 PM
Okay everybody. I have a new development. Tell me what you think of this email I recieved from WH today:

"We were invited over to OW/ButterFace's townhouse for her to show the boys her new dog tomorrow night. We are just going to be outside with the dog at her park across the street, no dinner planned, but still good opportunity for you two to meet. She told me this morning her soon to be ex client the municipal league will be getting a case for us as a test case in the next couple of weeks."

My head is spinning and I don't know what to do/say/think. Thoughts? Advice?
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 05/25/10 08:21 PM
Wait he wants you to meet the OW? WHY?? So you can punch her lights out? That would be the only explanation? But I haven't read threw your thread yet, just this last post of yours.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 05/25/10 08:23 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Okay everybody. I have a new development. Tell me what you think of this email I recieved from WH today:

"We were invited over to OW/ButterFace's townhouse for her to show the boys her new dog tomorrow night. We are just going to be outside with the dog at her park across the street, no dinner planned, but still good opportunity for you two to meet. She told me this morning her soon to be ex client the municipal league will be getting a case for us as a test case in the next couple of weeks."

My head is spinning and I don't know what to do/say/think. Thoughts? Advice?

Interesting. I would agree to go, looking at it as a fact-finding mission. Just to see how they interact. Don't be surprised if they act 'normal' but they may tip their hand without meaning to, and you'll be there to see some sort of confirmation of what you expect.
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 05/25/10 08:24 PM
In the spirit of �Keep your friends close and your enemies closer� I would certainly go.

He�s implying that they will be spending more time together soon and this visit is to gaslight you down the road with the �What are you talking about? You know we�re just friends.�

My first take is they are about to escalate the adultery.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 05/25/10 08:26 PM
Of course, you'll want to look your best and make sure you occasionally place a loving, possessive hand on H's arm, giggle prettily at his jokes, etc. Just in case he's painted you as the Wicked Wife of the West that he's in a loveless marriage with, KWIM?
Posted By: schtoop Re: I Need Help! - 05/25/10 08:30 PM
I'm bumfuzzled?

Either your husband is one of the most brazen WH's ever, inviting you to her townhouse to meet the OW, thinking you are completely clueless.

Or, this has been a giant red herring? It's completely true that the way your husband has talked about this woman to scumbag friend is far beyond inappropriate, but was it just false bravado for scumbag friend's benefit?

It reminds me of how I behaved with friends in middle school. We all talked so demeaning about girls and bragged about what we would do, should do, and even made up stories about what we have done. But, none of it was real.

Your husband and especially the scumbag friend sound like Jr. High boys. I'm not saying this is the case, but it makes me wonder.
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 05/25/10 08:31 PM
Quote
but still good opportunity for you two to meet.


This really is not that uncommon. We have seen this many times before here.
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 05/25/10 08:33 PM
Is the VAR in the car today? It might be interesting.
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: I Need Help! - 05/25/10 08:39 PM
Quote
We were invited over to OW/ButterFace's townhouse for her to show the boys her new dog tomorrow night


Okay, first of all... if this OW IS just a friend and they supposedly don't speak often... why would she think to call YOUR husband and ask him to bring YOUR boys over to see her new dog? I can't imagine a casual friend doing this, maybe a friend who I was involved with enough to know that they even HAVE a new dog or who would assume I or my children would be interested in seeing this dog.

And inviting you? This has to be a ruse for you to "see with your own eyes" that hey, we're just friends! See?? Otherwise why all the explanation about where they will be (as in not inside her home just at a dog park.)

Somethin' up here for sure. If it were me, I'd definitely go (looking smokin') and be asking her all kinds of questions or fishing for as much info on her as possible without it being obvious.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 05/25/10 08:41 PM
Originally Posted by chrisner
In the spirit of �Keep your friends close and your enemies closer� I would certainly go.

He�s implying that they will be spending more time together soon and this visit is to gaslight you down the road with the �What are you talking about? You know we�re just friends.�

My first take is they are about to escalate the adultery.

I agree. Put your detective hat on, Anne, and see what happens. This is weird and perverse on their parts, of course. But your H has been doing some pretty weird/perverse things. Go and see what happens.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/25/10 08:45 PM
Yes, I am going. I don't see how I can get out of it. Of course, he might be hoping that I won't go because I'm so tired and sick all the time from being pregnant and need to rest a lot (trouble with dehydration was causing some contraction-like symptoms). I'm sure this is a way to reinforce that "we're just friends" routine.

It will be hard to look my best at almost 5 months pregnant but it might be a good idea to go and show her my two kids plus the one growing in my tummy (and wear my most pregnant looking outfit). Although I truly believe she is cold-hearted and won't care or she wouldn't be doing what she's doing in the first place. I do know that she invited him to bring my boys over to meet her dog in an email last week but I wasn't mentioned as part of the deal then. I am DYING to read the emails today though unless they talked about it on the phone in his office. The VAR is in the car. I might not be able to get it out tonight and won't be able to listen to it until tomorrow at the earliest.

I think Chrishner is right and that they are planning to "escalate the adultery". What better way than to get me comfortable with their relationship?

I'm going to go and hope this leads to something I can use. I don't know how much longer I can take this. I will try to look on the bright side and hope that this leads to the break I've been waiting so long for.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/25/10 09:44 PM
Okay, I may be slow but it makes sense now. OW/ButterFace is changing jobs. This means she will not only be living but also working 10 minutes away from where we live. WH tends to work from a local library near her new office a few times a month so it's my guess that this convenient new location of ButterFace will allow them to take things to a new level and see each other more. No wonder he wants me to meet her and get comfortable about this. I think he wants to be able to pop over to her place for "lunch" when he's working from the library. These two make me sick. At least this might get me that proof I need!

As always, thinks for listening. I sure can't wait to hear what SmilingWoman has to say about these recent developments!
Posted By: V_planifolia Re: I Need Help! - 05/25/10 10:48 PM
Let me say what is also probably obvious: be prepared for the worst, too. If he wants to make nice and pull this stunt to gaslight you, be ready for any contrived opportunities for them to be alone. Waywards are crraaaazy, you can't put anything past them.

Think in advance about what you will do given a variety of scenarios.

Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 05/25/10 10:53 PM
I am confused? Have you exposed this A? I've tried reading threw your thread but I haven't finished yet, I would have exposed months ago! To EVERYONE!
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/26/10 12:04 AM
Originally Posted by anne505
As always, thinks for listening. I sure can't wait to hear what SmilingWoman has to say about these recent developments!

I about puke all over my monitor. He is brazen and he is about to escalate this adulterous relationship with her. He makes me sick. I hope you get your proof soon so you can stop living this lie he is forcing you to live.

Of course you have to go. No way out of it of course. He wants you VERY comfortable and he wants to be able to say 'An affair?!!!! Riiight Anne...I introduced you to my affair partner. That makes TOTAL sense.' As he rolls his eyes and makes a reference to pregnancy hormones.

Be on your toes girl. They are a special kind of sick.

(((Anne)))
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/26/10 12:05 AM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
I am confused? Have you exposed this A? I've tried reading threw your thread but I haven't finished yet, I would have exposed months ago! To EVERYONE!

There is nothing concrete to expose. He is an opportunist cheater....Every few months or so when the spirit moves him and his work load is not too heavy. The proof she has could be spun by him and it would be. She wants more definitive proof.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/26/10 12:13 AM
Originally Posted by anne505
Okay, I may be slow but it makes sense now. OW/ButterFace is changing jobs. This means she will not only be living but also working 10 minutes away from where we live.

So she already lives close by where you live? And she will now be working close by as well? Makes me wonder if he isn't seeing her more often than you know now....but the VAR would probably tell you that....
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 05/26/10 03:29 AM
Get the proof ASAP then dump his A$$! Show him and his buddies who's the IDIOT NOW! MWHAHAHAHAHAA!!! (evil laugh)
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/26/10 12:49 PM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
Get the proof ASAP then dump his A$$! Show him and his buddies who's the IDIOT NOW! MWHAHAHAHAHAA!!! (evil laugh)

smile....Along this line Anne, I was thinking last night....Your WH thinks he is VERY clever. And as far as Waywards go, he is. However, as with most people who think they are so smart they also think everyone else tends to be an idiot. Use this to your advantage Play up his belief that you are totally clueless about his true character. He will be SHOCKED when you present him with damning evidence. He will also be SHOCKED that you have been able to play this sick game for as long as you have. Even the evidence that seems weak now (not to ME, but he would laugh it off as a joke) will NOT seem weak even to him when presented with undeniable proof.

He thinks he is very smart. Just keep remembering that...those type of people eventually fall due to that very arrogant belief. Use it to your advantage.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/26/10 01:18 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
So she already lives close by where you live? And she will now be working close by as well? Makes me wonder if he isn't seeing her more often than you know now....but the VAR would probably tell you that....

I am 99% certain that he does not see her frequently at this point. However, her changing jobs and being closeby all the time is bound to change that. Especially now that the client work he was trying to get from her has actually begun. Although she is leaving the job so this will be her ex-client after another week. WH is talking about her getting him business from her new place of work so there is his excuse to remain in contact with her and take her to lunch when he works from the library. Blech!
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/26/10 01:21 PM
From reading the emails I see that this meeting between OW and my kids was her idea. He took her up on it. I also saw that my name was not mentioned in the emails so, unless he spoke with her on the phone from his office, it looks as if she was expecting tonight to be her, him and my two kids. I wonder if she will be surprised to see me there. I wonder if he thought I wouldn't go.

Wish me luck tonight. Thankfully, I have an event at school so I have a good reason to dress nicer than normal without it looking obvious. I just hope this leads to the concrete proof I have been waiting so long for.
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: I Need Help! - 05/26/10 01:24 PM
good luck and I'm so proud of you for being so strong.....remember you are doing this for those beautiful little children of yours.....
Right now he thinks he is smarter than you, but he will soon learn who the smartest one is.......
I have to say he has a lot of guts and the friend is an ***hole........
He deserves everything he is going to get and feel........
My hat is off to you for sticking up for yourself and your kids.....
Come here for support........
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/26/10 05:44 PM
Thanks for the kind thoughts jessitaylor. I think he has underestimated me. He's still being extremely careful but if they escalate things, he might let his guard down - especially after I have met her and see that they are "just friends."

I really don't expect anything big to happen tonight or even in the next few days since she doesn't start her new job for a week. But they are setting something up so I will just be patient and wait for my opportunity. I've made it this far, I can stick it out until I get what I need.

The support I get here is one of the things that has kept me going. I'm so thankful I found the MB website!
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 05/26/10 05:56 PM
What about the keylogger? Have you heard anything back from it?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/26/10 06:04 PM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
What about the keylogger? Have you heard anything back from it?

No, I have contacted customer service from the company I used and am waiting to hear from them. I wonder if my MO got lost somewhere. It doesn't matter because he has not been bringing the computer home anyway so I haven't had oppportunity to install it anyway. Once I finally get the matter figured out with the company and get my access code, I will have to find a way to get it on his computer. He's always warning Dirtbag Friend about what he does on his computer so I may not get much but it's worth a try.

On a positive note, I purchased a noise cancellation microphone for the VAR and it works WONDERS on getting rid of the background noise you get when recording in a car! Now, I just need him to say something incriminating!!! He hasn't done that since the day he talked about the sick ultrasound picture joke which was almost two weeks ago. I wonder if he suspects I bugged his car? I hope not because it's my best shot at getting what I need.
Posted By: teaser_8 Re: I Need Help! - 05/26/10 07:21 PM
Is there anyway that you can look up an IM sent 3 years ago? I just discovered an affair that had been going on for 5 years, I got into his e mails, but there are some missing info that was exchanged in an IM
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: I Need Help! - 05/26/10 07:27 PM
teaser -- check out the spying thread.
If you can purchase a SIM card reader, it would provide you with a lenthy history of text messages. I also recommend starting your own thread.

Anne -- I'll be wishing you well tonight. Not easy to come face to face with the enemy! Best of luck to you! Keep that calm-strong-goddess-attitude!
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/26/10 08:02 PM
Whoo hoo!!! I just heard from the keylogger software company and I have my access code and they are sending me the CD (which they recommend for installation on other computers). Now, I just need my opportunity. He hasn't been bringing it home lately but I will do it the first chance I get.

Lexxxy - Thanks! I know it won't be easy but I am very calm and focused today. This is not a good day to be falling apart and I know that God is giving me the strength and focus I need to get through tonight. I can fall apart tomorrow - and I'm sure I will. I don't expect much to happen tonight and maybe not even anytime soon. But I will be ready once something finally does break in this sordid situation.
Posted By: teaser_8 Re: I Need Help! - 05/26/10 09:16 PM
I am sorry but I am new to this site so I will have to ask what you mean by starting my own thread and how do I do that? I am in what I refer to as crisis mode and not thinking clearly
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 05/26/10 09:23 PM
Teaser,

Go to the Surviving an Affair forum and at the top left hand of the thread listing there is a button called "New Topic"

Click on that, enter a thread title and enter your question and information.

Good luck.
Posted By: teaser_8 Re: I Need Help! - 05/26/10 09:50 PM
Thanks!
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 02:05 AM
Can't wait to find out what happened tonight anne!!

Let us KNOW ASAP smile
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 02:59 AM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
Can't wait to find out what happened tonight anne!!

Let us KNOW ASAP smile

Me too! I've been away at my new house painting all day and the first thing I did was log on to check Anne's thread. I really didn't expect much since she isn't going to OW's house until this evening....but still couldn't wait to log on.

Anne, glad you are getting your keylogger. It is AMAZING what you will find...especially if he generally keeps it with him...he will never susupect you've loaded software on it to track everything he does.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 03:09 PM
So how was the party?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 03:14 PM
Here is the latest:

I went with WH and two kids to OW's house last night. On the surface, it was very normal and if I didn't know better, it would have served the purpose WH intended it to (i.e., to get me comfortable and show that they are "just friends"). However, I was on guard and noticed things I probably would otherwise not have. Here are the high points:

1. He made a point to call her and ask for her house number. He acted like he had never been there and even drove past it and had to go back. I know for a fact he was there in November and he is one of those people who remembers exactly how to get somewhere after being there only one time (seriously, the man can remember how to get to places he was at from his childhood over 20 years ago). He put on a good act though.

2. The two of them talked a LOT and made little effort to include me in the converation. It was mostly about her dog and then a little about her job situation (she's starting a new job in a week). He's right, she talks a lot! It was blah, blah, blah for the entire time we were there.

3. WH was VERY nervous. I'm not sure if I would have picked up on that or not if I didn't know what I know but he was jittery in a very subtle way. I could tell he was on edge and he had a nervous energy that he seemed to be trying to control.

4. WH almost tripped on her dogs leash and she made some comment about how she would have had to have told that story to all "everyone we know" and then she sort of corrected herself and said "I would have told everyone I know."

5. Here is a line from an email to Dirtbag Friend yesterday: "I am going over to ButterFace/OW's house tonight with Anne and the boys to see her new dog, and her and my wife to finally meet." No reply from DF but I am dying to see what he says. They made plans to talk but he may have done so from his office. The conversations in the car have been limited lately so I'm not sure if he suspects I'm listening in or what.

that's all I can remember rigth now. My head is spinning. I see now more than ever that I need to have iron-clad proof before I confront. So now, I wait.

Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Here is the latest:

I went with WH and two kids to OW's house last night. On the surface, it was very normal and if I didn't know better, it would have served the purpose WH intended it to (i.e., to get me comfortable and show that they are "just friends"). However, I was on guard and noticed things I probably would otherwise not have. Here are the high points:

1. He made a point to call her and ask for her house number. He acted like he had never been there and even drove past it and had to go back. I know for a fact he was there in November and he is one of those people who remembers exactly how to get somewhere after being there only one time (seriously, the man can remember how to get to places he was at from his childhood over 20 years ago). He put on a good act though.

2. The two of them talked a LOT and made little effort to include me in the converation. It was mostly about her dog and then a little about her job situation (she's starting a new job in a week). He's right, she talks a lot! It was blah, blah, blah for the entire time we were there.

3. WH was VERY nervous. I'm not sure if I would have picked up on that or not if I didn't know what I know but he was jittery in a very subtle way. I could tell he was on edge and he had a nervous energy that he seemed to be trying to control.

4. WH almost tripped on her dogs leash and she made some comment about how she would have had to have told that story to all "everyone we know" and then she sort of corrected herself and said "I would have told everyone I know."

5. Here is a line from an email to Dirtbag Friend yesterday: "I am going over to ButterFace/OW's house tonight with Anne and the boys to see her new dog, and her and my wife to finally meet." No reply from DF but I am dying to see what he says. They made plans to talk but he may have done so from his office. The conversations in the car have been limited lately so I'm not sure if he suspects I'm listening in or what.

that's all I can remember rigth now. My head is spinning. I see now more than ever that I need to have iron-clad proof before I confront. So now, I wait.


He doesn't suspect. He thinks he is too smart for you. Keep on what you are doing. You are doing GREAT!!!
Posted By: schtoop Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 03:22 PM
Yeah, but did she actually have a "butterface"?

Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 05:29 PM
Thanks SmilingWoman. Hopefully something will break soon. I need WH and Dirtbag to talk in the car because I'm sure Dirtbag has something to say about us meeting. Hopefully, he responded to WH's email about us meeting.

Schtoop - LOL. As the saying goes, she is nothing to write home about. I have seen pictures of her so I knew what to expect. She's blond, a little on the heavy side, rather plain and not such a pretty face. She was wearing a t-shirt and sweatpants.

About 20 minutes after we left, she wrote "I'm really glad that today is over. It was not a fun day." as her Facebook status. Really, ButterFace?!? Now you know how I feel!
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 06:04 PM
Anne, you are soo brave to go to her HOUSE! It has been 5 months! How long are you willing to let this A take over your marriage? You have emails, voice recording! What all do you need to expose this A? If your husband denies this A, then I would go straight into Plan B! He'll know your not kidding!

Your thread makes me not sleep at night because I just want your WH to be punished for taking you to his OW house! I just want to puke

See what you can do to get those PIX!! Can you email him back?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
Anne, you are soo brave to go to her HOUSE! It has been 5 months! How long are you willing to let this A take over your marriage? You have emails, voice recording! What all do you need to expose this A? If your husband denies this A, then I would go straight into Plan B! He'll know your not kidding!

Your thread makes me not sleep at night because I just want your WH to be punished for taking you to his OW house! I just want to puke

See what you can do to get those PIX!! Can you email him back?

There's the problem, SR - Anne's intel is incomplete and can be spun. The one thing that would nail her H would be the photos that an anonymous emailer told her he had. Without those she's got zilch that would nail her H. Confronting him now will drive him completely underground, and he's darned good at avoiding detection now as it is.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 06:39 PM
SapphireReturns - I've known about it for two months but have no idea how long it's actually been going on. What I need is SOLID proof and I just don't have it. I have enough for me to know that something bad is going on but everything I have (the emails and voice recordings) is something he could spin and that's exactly what he will do. I have made it this far and feel it would be stupid to stop before I get what I need.

What helps me get through this is the knowledge that he WILL be punished once I get what I need.

As for the pictures, I did email back but never received a reply. I think one of the friends probably just wanted to mess with WH and put a scare in him (these jerks LOVE to play sick practical jokes on one another). He probably had no intention of sending me the pictures or he would have done so already.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 06:39 PM
That's why I suggested to go into Plan B smile
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 06:42 PM
I wish his friend had the BALLS to send you those pix! If I had pix of an A and I new his wife was pregnant and has two other kids! I would have sent him the next morning.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
That's why I suggested to go into Plan B smile

I see your point but I'm not ready for that yet. I feel like him wanting me to meet her means that they are going to escalate things which will get me closer to the proof that I need in order to proceed.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
I wish his friend had the BALLS to send you those pix! If I had pix of an A and I new his wife was pregnant and has two other kids! I would have sent him the next morning.

The friend that took the pictures has had numerous affairs with women in South and Central America (he meets them online and goes to visit them but tells his wife he is travelling to other areas on business). I don't think he has one ounce of decency in him.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 06:52 PM
Maybe you should email him back and say

"Guess you don't have the balls to send the pix."

Or

"Do you randomly email married woman telling them that you have pix of there husband with another woman? And not send the pix?"
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 06:59 PM
Quote
Maybe you should email him back and say

"Guess you don't have the balls to send the pix."

Or

"Do you randomly email married woman telling them that you have pix of there husband with another woman? And not send the pix?"

I think that's what she did do. It's back a few pages. No response.


Anne, if you got the undeniable smoking gun today, what are you planning on doing?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by chrisner
Anne, if you got the undeniable smoking gun today, what are you planning on doing?

Once I have proof that I feel comfortable with, I will confront and give him the opportunity to go to counseling with me to fix our marriage. If he's unwilling to do that, it's off to a divorce attorney I go...
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 07:33 PM
I'll have a lot more then that!!

1. NC with OW
2. NC with his dirtbag friends! (I would even block there numbers!)
3. MC with SH
4. Passwords to EVERYTHING!
5. He would have to tell you exactly where he is at every min of the day.

Those would be just the starting ones smile
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
I'll have a lot more then that!!

1. NC with OW
2. NC with his dirtbag friends! (I would even block there numbers!)
3. MC with SH
4. Passwords to EVERYTHING!
5. He would have to tell you exactly where he is at every min of the day.

Those would be just the starting ones smile

All of that is included in my counseling requirement - counseling is just the starting point. My therapist says that often times, WS's don't understand the importance of the other requirements until a third party (counselor) is able to explain it from a neutral viewpoint. She already has my list of requirements and includes virtually everything on your list. I also have complete honestly and full discolsure on there at the top. As for #5, I take it a step further and add him getting GPS.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 07:43 PM
I am just itching for this to get exposed, I DO NOT like his friends, and I do hope you tell there wife's and show them that there husband has been cheating on them so they can have the same fate! mad
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 07:45 PM
That's what I wanted to hear anne.

Remember when the day comes you never ask if the wayward is having an affair, you tell them very clearly you know their comitting adultery.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 07:51 PM
@Sapphire - I despise these friends!!! WH will only get a chance to make this right because of the kids. I am keeping a separate file on the friends (who I already have more than enough dirt on to expose right now!). Their house of cards is about to tumble.

@Chrisner � That�s why I need absolute proof. So that I will have the confidence to say I KNOW and not I �think�. Only when I get that, will I be able to handle this and not risk letting him worm his way out of it. I�ve been with this man for almost 20 years (married 10) and am worried I will let him talk his way out of it if I�m not armed with enough proof.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 07:55 PM
Have you talked to your lawyer about all the evidence you have? Does he say you have enough? Or does he say get more?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 08:17 PM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
Have you talked to your lawyer about all the evidence you have? Does he say you have enough? Or does he say get more?

I don't have a lawyer yet but I do know someone who works in that field and I don't yet have enough to file on grounds of adultery and have a solid case. If I file, the grounds will be adultery.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 05/27/10 08:42 PM
That would be my next step then! While I am still gathering all the evidence I need for my case, is to talk to a lawyer and let him know about the situation.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/28/10 01:24 PM
I have a lawyer I want to use. I plan to go in for a consultation soon and see what she says. I'm trying hard to listen to my instincts and do things the right way. Something is holding me back from going to the lawyer yet because the timing doesn't feel right.

WH emailed Dirtbag Friend letting him know that OW/ButterFace and I were finally going to meet. Here is Dirtbag's response: "Oh man good luck with that those two worlds shouldn't cross. I am sure your wife wants to see the new dog. Things that make you go hmmmmmm!" On reply form WH, of course. He's very careful about what he says on email.

He and Dirtbag have a big night out on Saturday. They are both excited because there will be "plenty of good looking women" where they are going. Too bad they always take Dirtbag's car. That means I won't get anything from the VAR that night. Darn it! Hopefully, the computer will come home with him and I will have all of Saturday night to get the keylogger on his computer and test it out. Wish me luck!
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 05/28/10 01:38 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I have a lawyer I want to use. I plan to go in for a consultation soon and see what she says. I'm trying hard to listen to my instincts and do things the right way. Something is holding me back from going to the lawyer yet because the timing doesn't feel right.

I had the same feeling. I'd wait a bit longer before you consult an attorney.

Good luck getting that keylogger on there! I have a feeling that you're going to hit pay dirt with it.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/28/10 03:10 PM
I agree the KL could very well give her the answers.

Anne, does his laptop belong to him? He is more likely to freely chat on there if it belongs to him vs. belonging to his work place.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/28/10 05:05 PM
I don't hold out a lot of hope that the keylogger will get me much but it is worth a try. He is so careful about what he says on email, especially to OW/ButterFaceb, but I guess you never know. He does not own his laptop, it belongs to his work, as does his cell phone. He's obviously not as smart as he thinks he is (or maybe I'm not as stupid as he thinks I am...or maybe both?) so I just hope he gives me what I need soon.

The Saturday plans with Dirtbag are off. Dirtbag was playing one of his pranks to try to get WH to go out with him that night. I can't give any details about the prank because it would make my location too obvious. WH is not going out with him Saturday but I know they discussed gambling (wait, did I say gambling, I mean to say GOLFING) on Sunday morning.

A question about the VAR and confronting WH. My therapist says I should take the VAR out of the car before I confront because she thinks he will immediately search the car and find it. I was inclined to leave it in there because I'm sure his first call after I confront will be to Dirtbag and I don't want to miss that. Thoughts?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 05/28/10 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
A question about the VAR and confronting WH. My therapist says I should take the VAR out of the car before I confront because she thinks he will immediately search the car and find it. I was inclined to leave it in there because I'm sure his first call after I confront will be to Dirtbag and I don't want to miss that. Thoughts?

I know you well enough to know by now that you won't offer up the fact that you bugged his car. But I suspect your therapist is right - he more than likely will search the car. Don't you have an old VAR, the first one you tried that didn't work very well? Why don't you, just before you confront him, put that one in the car in a place that would be easier to find than where your good one is. That way, if he is inclined to search, he'll find that one and hopefully assume that it's the only one. A decoy VAR, if you will.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/28/10 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Don't you have an old VAR, the first one you tried that didn't work very well? Why don't you, just before you confront him, put that one in the car in a place that would be easier to find than where your good one is. That way, if he is inclined to search, he'll find that one and hopefully assume that it's the only one. A decoy VAR, if you will.

OMG, that is a great idea!!! I love this forum. Don't get me wrong, I hate that any of us has to be here but I just don't know what I would do without all of you. I actually have three VARS. I can use the crappy one and "hide" it where I know he will find it and hopefully stop looking. The other two I have are the ones that work really well and I switch them out ever two days or so. I keep the good one under the passenger seat so I can put the bad on under his seat which is where he will look first anyway. One less thing to worry about when the time comes. Thanks again!
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 05/28/10 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Don't you have an old VAR, the first one you tried that didn't work very well? Why don't you, just before you confront him, put that one in the car in a place that would be easier to find than where your good one is. That way, if he is inclined to search, he'll find that one and hopefully assume that it's the only one. A decoy VAR, if you will.

OMG, that is a great idea!!! I love this forum. Don't get me wrong, I hate that any of us has to be here but I just don't know what I would do without all of you. I actually have three VARS. I can use the crappy one and "hide" it where I know he will find it and hopefully stop looking. The other two I have are the ones that work really well and I switch them out ever two days or so. I keep the good one under the passenger seat so I can put the bad on under his seat which is where he will look first anyway. One less thing to worry about when the time comes. Thanks again!
I've gotten pretty good at my snooping over the past 15 months. whistle

Your H might find both, but putting the second one in and hoping he finds only that one is a better risk to run than having him find your good one.
Posted By: GoingUphill Re: I Need Help! - 05/28/10 06:40 PM
It sounds like you are not 100% sure he has cheated on you? I am 100% sure, and I'm sure plenty of other people here are also 100% sure.

What do you suppose would happen if you took your 99% and added the other 1% with a bluff? I'm sure the good folks here could help you come up with a speech that would stop him in his tracks. The skeleton would be something like:

Sit down now, and don't say a word. I know. I absolutely know. I know that you are not capable of keeping your thing in your pants. Don't bother with more lies. I won't listen and you will sound stupid.

And by the way, I also know about the gambling.

Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 05/28/10 06:48 PM
Even if he finds both, I doubt he will think you have a third...so you could probably put the third back in the car.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 05/28/10 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by GoingUphill
It sounds like you are not 100% sure he has cheated on you? I am 100% sure, and I'm sure plenty of other people here are also 100% sure.

What do you suppose would happen if you took your 99% and added the other 1% with a bluff? I'm sure the good folks here could help you come up with a speech that would stop him in his tracks. The skeleton would be something like:

Sit down now, and don't say a word. I know. I absolutely know. I know that you are not capable of keeping your thing in your pants. Don't bother with more lies. I won't listen and you will sound stupid.

And by the way, I also know about the gambling.

What if she's wrong? What if we're wrong? I agree that it certainly is walking like a duck, but Anne isn't 100% sure, and she wants to be. I can't blame her, because he's either a victim of weird circumstance, or he's pathologically good at covering his tracks. I think Anne wants to make sure either way. (Sorry for speaking for you, Anne - correct me if I'm wrong.) smile
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/28/10 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by GoingUphill
It sounds like you are not 100% sure he has cheated on you? I am 100% sure, and I'm sure plenty of other people here are also 100% sure.

Oh, I am 100% sure he cheated. I'm also 100% sure that I need 100% proof before I proceed with either recovery or divorce. I also know I need 100% proof to protect myself against the lies he will tell me when I confront him. I know smarter women than me have fallen for those lies and I don't want that to happen to me. At this point, he can (and will) spin everything I have and he will play on my emotions which he is excellent at doing and I'm very vulnerable right now because I'm pregnant and am dealing with a sick parent. If I tip him off that I'm on to him now, I will never get my proof. All of this is being done to protect myself and my children. Bluffing is dangerous and not a good option for me right now.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/28/10 06:51 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
Even if he finds both, I doubt he will think you have a third...so you could probably put the third back in the car.

He could find them both but putting in a decoy is a very good idea. He's understimated me thus far, so maybe he will continue to do so.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/28/10 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
What if she's wrong? What if we're wrong? I agree that it certainly is walking like a duck, but Anne isn't 100% sure, and she wants to be. I can't blame her, because he's either a victim of weird circumstance, or he's pathologically good at covering his tracks. I think Anne wants to make sure either way. (Sorry for speaking for you, Anne - correct me if I'm wrong.) smile

I'm 100% sure that he's betrayed me and that he's "pathologically good at covering his tracks" but you are right about everything else. This is a VERY strange situation and not typical of what usually goes on during affairs. My therapist is often shocked by what I tell her and she has dealt with infidelity for YEARS. This is my life I am talking about and I need to know EXACTLY what is going on. I know it's something bad but more infomration will only help me with however I proceed. I've said it before and I will say it again...I've come too far to blow it now.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/30/10 06:16 PM
Keylogger is isntalled on his laptop. One problem though...does anyone know how to find out the "host" or smtp or whatever so I can confingure it to email me the reports? I wasn't sure about that. But, it's on there and will record everything and I can check it (and configure the email option) the first chance I get.

So he lied to me and told me he had to work and went to the casino with Dirtbag. For some reason, the VAR did not record today so I didn't get to hear much but there probably wasn't much to hear anyway since they take Dirtbag's car. It's likely that all I missed was him calling Dirtbag to tell him he was on his way over.

So more lies but not the BIG lies I'm waiting for. I guess he's bound to slip up sooner or later. Thanks for listening and let me know if you have any experience with setting up a keylogger to email to a yahoo account.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/30/10 06:46 PM
It has been a year since I put it on WXHs computer, so I don't remember...I used Eblaster and it was really easy. What brand did you get? I thought I remembered the program just asking me for the email address that I wanted the reports forwarded to. If no one here answers you, go to the website of the product you bought and see if you can find the answer there....or call them on their 800 number...it makes it so much easier if it is sent to your email...you never even have to touch his lap top again. I kept getting reports on Xhs after he moved out.
Posted By: KaylaAndy Re: I Need Help! - 05/30/10 06:48 PM
I think your exposure one of these times would be to show up at the casino with a key to a storage unit and say, "what other lies have you told me? Schedule a lie detector test, let me choose the questions, and maybe, I will consider letting you come home, depending on if I finally hear the truth."
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/31/10 02:18 PM
SmilingWoman - I use "Cheater Checker Viewer" which is from Pandora PC. I found the information on their website. I didn't have time to deal with it yesterday because the battery on his laptop was almost out and I didn't want it to die while I was using it. Hopefully the next time I get to his computer, I will get it set up and won't have to worry about it again. At least it's on there! I also had a glitch with my VAR. It was skipping during recording and I don't know why. It caused me to miss some key parts of a conversation he had with Dirtbag. Why do I feel like thechnology is out to get me...LOL! If I can't get it set up, I will buy Eblaster.

KaylaAndy - I go through exposure and confrontation in my head all the time. Still trying to figure out the best way and time to do it. I need more solid information first. I'm working hard to follow my instincts. Although I often find myself wanting to just confront him with what I have, it doesn't feel right. In fact, when I feel the impulse to do that, I give it a few minutes and then once I have calmed down, I am so glad I didn't do it because I feel like it would be a huge mistake. I would love to subject him to a lie detector test. I feel like that may be the only way for me to ever get the truth.

Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 05/31/10 02:24 PM
if he deny's these allegations then I would tell him this...

you say: "If you are telling the truth, then you would have no worry or excuse taking a polygraph test?"

WH: "Sure!" (even tho he's thinking in his mind that you would probably never have the guts to set one up.)

You Say: "PERFECT! I have it already scheduled for tomorrow at such and such time, we can go together!"

Then he will tell you ever excuse that he can't do it that day! But you HAVE to STICK to it! Or else he wins! smile you can say.

"So i'm assuming that I was right about the A, anything you want to tell me?"
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/31/10 03:26 PM
Any ideas on locating someone to perform a lie detector test? I think he's convinced himself that his A with OW is not actually an A. He considers them "friends with benefits". That has offically become my most hated phrase in the English language, by the way.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 05/31/10 03:31 PM
Even if they are "friends with benefits", that is an inappropriate and morally wrong relationship for a married person to have.

My definition these days of a "friend with benefits" is my neighbor across the street, who lets us swim in her pool.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/31/10 03:39 PM
OurHouse - I'm not excusing his behavior. In fact, it makes me sick to think that he is risking everything for a little something on the side. I just think he has found a way to look me in the eye and feel like he is telling me the truth when he says he is not having an affair.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/31/10 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
OurHouse - I'm not excusing his behavior. In fact, it makes me sick to think that he is risking everything for a little something on the side. I just think he has found a way to look me in the eye and feel like he is telling me the truth when he says he is not having an affair.

That even makes me wonder if he would be able to pass a lie detector test...but probably not because they ask very pointed questions....like....'did you have sex with BF?'

I would ask your attorney for a recommendation of someone to perform a lie detector test.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/31/10 03:46 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
That even makes me wonder if he would be able to pass a lie detector test...but probably not because they ask very pointed questions....like....'did you have sex with BF?'

That is EXACTLY the thought that is going through my head, that he has rationalized this in his mind to the extent that he really believes he is not guilty. I will add lie detector to my list of questions to ask the attorney when I meet with her. I'm putting together the finacial documents and I'm starting a list of what I need to disucss with her before I proceed. At the top of my list is spousal support and relocation (not out of state but three hours away from where we currently live).
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 05/31/10 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
That even makes me wonder if he would be able to pass a lie detector test...but probably not because they ask very pointed questions....like....'did you have sex with BF?'

That is EXACTLY the thought that is going through my head, that he has rationalized this in his mind to the extent that he really believes he is not guilty. I will add lie detector to my list of questions to ask the attorney when I meet with her. I'm putting together the finacial documents and I'm starting a list of what I need to disucss with her before I proceed. At the top of my list is spousal support and relocation (not out of state but three hours away from where we currently live).

Relocation to? Near your parents?

Do you have an appt with your attorney? Or are you just preparing?

Is your WH working today? Or claiming to be working? smile
Posted By: teaser_8 Re: I Need Help! - 05/31/10 05:52 PM
Here I am again, not a good weekend, found lewd pis of OW and then after looking closer realized that they were taken in my house, in my kitchen-so again, another rage episode
Posted By: Pepperband Re: I Need Help! - 05/31/10 06:04 PM
Anne505 / teaser 8

Please stick to one screen name.
It's confusing.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 05/31/10 06:07 PM
teaser8 is someone different, teaser you need to stick to your thread ok?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 05/31/10 11:55 PM
I am sticking to my screen name but I keep getting threadjacked.

SmilingWoman - If I file for D, I will most likely move near my mom. I can't afford the area I live in and need to be somewhere that has a lower cost of living. It would also be easier to find work as my mom would baby sit for free. It's three hours away and I know he could give me problems and try to prevent me from doing it.

I do not have an appointment with an attorney yet but am gathering information for when the time comes. I don't have a timeline for it, but feel I will know when the time is right.

WH did work all day today. I know he actually worked for some of it, possibly all. He is on a deadline which makes yesterday all that much more frustrating. That is when he told me he worked but went gambling with Dirtbag instead. He wasted four hours but claimed it was work. No wonder he had to put in a full day today. Honestly, though, it's come to the point where I am just glad to have him gone. I hate being around him these days. It's just so painful.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 05:52 PM
WH changed his Facebook password. I won't be able to find out if he changed his email password until later but I would say the chances are good. In that case, I'm locked out of email and his laptop and did not get the keylogger set up to email me reports yet. Not a good development at all.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
WH changed his Facebook password. I won't be able to find out if he changed his email password until later but I would say the chances are good. In that case, I'm locked out of email and his laptop and did not get the keylogger set up to email me reports yet. Not a good development at all.

Did he know you had his FB password? Can you ask him why he changed it?

Think - is he a creature of habit? Are there words/numbers that he would be inclined to use? I use just a couple of passwords for a lot of my accounts because I'm afraid I'll use so many that I'll forget which password opens which account.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 05:58 PM
Gotta get that key logger WORKING!! This is a good sign that he changed his password he is making sure you can't get in, that means HE IS HIDING SOMETHING!
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 06:07 PM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
Gotta get that key logger WORKING!! This is a good sign that he changed his password he is making sure you can't get in, that means HE IS HIDING SOMETHING!

That's the thing - he changed his pw on his laptop. She's got to be able to get into his laptop to load the software.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 06:10 PM
she had it loaded during the weekend, its already on there smile
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 06:17 PM
I won't know until later if he changed it on his laptop or not. Obviously, he has something to hide and he's very good at it! The problem with the keylogger software is that I was able to install it but could not get the email function working so I still need to get into his laptop one more time to set that up. Not sure if that will happen now!

I thought of every password he uses and none of them worked. He did not change the pasword on a few other things so I just spent some time printing statements from the credit card he uses when he doesn't want me to know what he's doing.

I doubt he will confront me if he suspects I am snooping - that wouldn't be like him at all. He will just try harder to hide his activities from. Keep your fingers crossed that he didn't find the VAR. If that happens, I will have to proceed with what I have.
Posted By: Nomdeplume Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 06:42 PM
Hi Anne505,

Just wanted to let you know that there are people that will hack email accounts and get the current password for you. I should know as it was done to me! I don't know any names to give you, or how much it costs, but I'm sure if you do a web search you would find them. Perhaps someone on MB would have a recommendation for you.

Hope this helps. I can understand your frustration at wanting to unearth the truth. I wish you well.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
she had it loaded during the weekend, its already on there smile

Oh! I spent a lot of time over on BT's thread and missed that - in that case, Anne, you should be able to get email reports, right? Don't say anything about his pws being changed.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 06:48 PM
I did load it but could not get it set up to email me reports. I need to get in there one more time to do that. I will NOT say anything about passwords being changed.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 07:37 PM
I have a question about confrontation. I know many of you have suggested a simple "I know" and leaving it at that. No tears, going crazy, getting angry, etc. My question is how do you end the conversation when he starts with the denials and accusations? Do you simply walk away or say something like "I'll be here to talk when you are ready to tell me the truth?" Based on my recent developments, my confrontation might happen sooner (not to mention without all the desired proof) than I had hoped. Advice, thoughts or suggestions? I don't want to blow it!
Posted By: Nomdeplume Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 07:40 PM
Did you read my post Anne? Or did it get lost in your busy thread?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 07:45 PM
Originally Posted by Nomdeplume
Did you read my post Anne? Or did it get lost in your busy thread?

I did read it (thank you, by the way) and will try to find someone. However, I'm trying to prepare for all scenarios especially the one where confrontation might happen before I was fully ready for it.
Posted By: Nomdeplume Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 08:10 PM

Thanks for replying Anne; I just wanted to make sure you knew there was such a service out there.

My WH works for a company that makes all employees change their passwords every month, so there is a chance this is just a coincidence. Just be on your guard not to divulge that you know it has changed.

I would call the company you purchased the logger from and ask for advice. Perhaps now that it is downloaded, there is some way to access it. I would ask their help!

I wish you all the best.

Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 08:20 PM
Thanks again, Nomdeplume. I really do appreciate the great advice and help I get here. I've been researching email hacking and it might be hard to find a legit one. Again, just trying to prepare for all possible scenarios.

WH's company does not make them change passwords. In fact, he has had this password since he worked there (going on 10 years). I have not yet verified that he has changed his email password but I do know that he changed his Facebook password. It's my guess that if he changed one, then he changed the other. I am not going to act any differently with this change of events. I haven't been myself lately but I hope he will chalk that up to me being pregnant and my mom starting chemo tomorrow.

The software company did help me figure out how to get it set up. Too bad that it might be a day late!

Thanks again for your advice. I don't know what I would do without this forum!
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 08:28 PM
Anne:

If you were to sign on as him for his FB account and say you forgot your password, where would FB send it?

Can you get into his email remotely? If he uses an email client, such as Outlook, you should be able to go right to the ISP's website (Verizon, Comcast) and read his email there, if he hasn't changed the PW.

Can you call the Keylogger tech help line for help in getting that thing to start emailing you reports?
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 08:30 PM
One other thought. If his dirtbag friends like to play practical jokes on each other, there's a chance one of them could have hacked his FB account and changed his PW.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 08:49 PM
OurHouse - His password reminder/reset will go to his work email. If he has changed that, I am out of luck. He doesn't do much on Facebook so my bigger concern is his work email. Getting shut out of that would not be good.

As for the remote access, I have to wait until he's not using his email to access it. He's working late (or so he says, who acutally knows) so it's going to be awhile before I can test it and see if the old password still works.

The keylogger tech people helped me figure out how to set up the email reports. However, I can not set it up if I can't get into his laptop. Time will tell.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I have a question about confrontation. I know many of you have suggested a simple "I know" and leaving it at that. No tears, going crazy, getting angry, etc. My question is how do you end the conversation when he starts with the denials and accusations? Do you simply walk away or say something like "I'll be here to talk when you are ready to tell me the truth?" Based on my recent developments, my confrontation might happen sooner (not to mention without all the desired proof) than I had hoped. Advice, thoughts or suggestions? I don't want to blow it!

I'm not sure what a confrontation like that would get you, Anne. It's sort of the opposite of a 'tsunami of truth' KWIM? I'm afraid he would think you were fishing and call your bluff. Do you feel you have enough intel to confront him and cause him to come out with it? Because it's like there's been a little cat-and-mouse game between you two, and you both know it. Do you think he would come clean now?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 08:53 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
One other thought. If his dirtbag friends like to play practical jokes on each other, there's a chance one of them could have hacked his FB account and changed his PW.

Interesting that you bring this up because this happened last September. WH wanted Dirtbag to see some pictures (probably of a co-worker he has the hots for but I'm only guessing) so he gave him his password. Dirtbag started sending messages to people from WH's account so WH had to change the password on Facebook only. But I truly don't think it's the case this time. The timing is too suspect with me doing so much snooping and having just installed keylogger on his software. Although I won't give myself away, the most likely scenario is that he's trying to keep me out.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 08:58 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Do you feel you have enough intel to confront him and cause him to come out with it? Because it's like there's been a little cat-and-mouse game between you two, and you both know it. Do you think he would come clean now?

It's going to be hard to let him know that I really do know without revealing HOW I know. That's the problem and why I'm trying to figure out the best way to approach this when the time comes. I think about it all the time but I just don't know the best way to do it.

As for the cat & mouse game, I don't think he's really known that I know/suspect anything until today. He's been to wrapped up in his own sick games to consider me or my feelings. That's why I wonder if he found the keylogging software or maybe the VAR. Time will tell...
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 09:02 PM
When he changed his FB password after Dirtbag hacked it...did he pick something new? And how did you find out what he'd picked?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 09:05 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
When he changed his FB password after Dirtbag hacked it...did he pick something new? And how did you find out what he'd picked?

He did pick something new but it was rather obvious and I guessed it. I have no clue what he changed it to this time. The obvious ones aren't working. I do know that if you forget your password, FB sends you a link to reset it rather than the actual password.

I'm starting to realize that I am spending way too much time on this man. Perhaps my life would be better if he were no longer a part of it (except for being the father of my children).
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 09:11 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by OurHouse
When he changed his FB password after Dirtbag hacked it...did he pick something new? And how did you find out what he'd picked?

He did pick something new but it was rather obvious and I guessed it. I have no clue what he changed it to this time. The obvious ones aren't working. I do know that if you forget your password, FB sends you a link to reset it rather than the actual password.

I'm starting to realize that I am spending way too much time on this man. Perhaps my life would be better if he were no longer a part of it (except for being the father of my children).

That's an excellent point and something to think about, Anne. I know you have your very valid reasons for wanting solid proof. But maybe it's time to start thinking about what YOU want. Do you think you can live with a person it sounds as though you no longer respect, who you believe has little or no moral integrity? Do you think he's salvageable? Do you think the marriage is salvageable if proper help is obtained?

If so, then keep doing what you are doing; you are fighting for your marriage.

If not..then I guess it really doesn't matter so much. You could put your energy into the divorce settlement.
Posted By: Nomdeplume Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 09:33 PM
Anne, you are getting great advice from people that know the MB ways, so I will stay away from that side of things.

I did though endure a couple of months of discovery similar to you. It is difficult and crazy making, but worth it in the end.

If your WH has found the keylogger then of course you know nothing about it!!! If he mentions it, then act dumb and say something like... "I was just reading about all he Internet fraud etc. that is going on now. My goodness did they get our bank/credit card details? Maybe we should report this to the credit agencies. This is so scary!"

If he found the VAR then perhaps you could laugh it off as one of his silly friends playing another joke on him.. just plant that idea in his head and deny, deny, deny!

Plan what you will say ahead of time so you are prepared.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
[quote=anne505] I know you have your very valid reasons for wanting solid proof. But maybe it's time to start thinking about what YOU want. Do you think you can live with a person it sounds as though you no longer respect, who you believe has little or no moral integrity? Do you think he's salvageable? Do you think the marriage is salvageable if proper help is obtained?

If only I knew the answers to those questions. I do feel that I owe it to my kids to at least try to work it out after I confront him. I don't know how much hope there is but I think I would regret not trying.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/01/10 11:25 PM
Originally Posted by Nomdeplume
I did though endure a couple of months of discovery similar to you. It is difficult and crazy making, but worth it in the end.

This is just horrible and so hard to deal with. What's really difficult is that I'm just short of getting what I need to proceed. It does help to know that I'm not the only one who has dealt with such a lenghty discovery process and I thank you for sharing that with me.

There is good news though. He did not change his password on his laptop or email and there was a weird email that makes me think one of the Dirtbag Friends was messing with him on Facebook. Now I just need to get back on his laptop to configure the email function. And I will also get the Facebook password too.

If he discovers or suspects anything, I will do what he does...deny, deny, deny!
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/02/10 02:47 AM
Originally Posted by anne505
[quote=Nomdeplume]
There is good news though. He did not change his password on his laptop or email and there was a weird email that makes me think one of the Dirtbag Friends was messing with him on Facebook. Now I just need to get back on his laptop to configure the email function. And I will also get the Facebook password too.

If he discovers or suspects anything, I will do what he does...deny, deny, deny!

I've been out all day and was so glad to get to this last post and see that he hasn't changed his laptop password! Whew! I have a feeling you are REALLY close Anne...just be cool for a while longer.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/02/10 12:55 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I've been out all day and was so glad to get to this last post and see that he hasn't changed his laptop password! Whew! I have a feeling you are REALLY close Anne...just be cool for a while longer.

Thanks SmilingWoman. It's always so nice to hear from you. I was soooo relieved when I was able to get into his email which means I can set up the keylogger email function as soon as I can (it can still be hard to get access to his laptop but I should be able to do it). He did catch me looking through his phone last night. It's not a huge deal since I didn't get much from that anyone (he probably knew I looked at it since he would delete stuff anyway).

The past few weeks have been very difficult. I hope you're right and that I'm close. We have a vacation coming up (which is going to be really hard to get through). My guess is that a "date" with ButterFace will be coming up after we get back. He had lunch with her a few weeks ago but hasn't had a night out with her in awhile so they are due. I know I keep saying that but they are!
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/03/10 06:52 PM
Anything new Anne?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/03/10 07:59 PM
Thanks for checking SmilingWoman. Not much is new here. WH is on another deadline at work and we are preparing for a family vacation so he has been pretty busy. Needless to say, I am not looking forward to the trip.

Some developments in Dirtbag's situation though. His married girlfriend is trying to get him to leave his wife. WH is advising him to cut all ties with the OW. He seems to know exactly how to cheat and not have it ruin his life. Or so he thinks!

WH caught me looking through his phone the other night so he's been keeping a close eye on it. I didn't get much from it anyway so all his behavior does is confirm that he is doing a lot of things he doesn't want me to know about. He's still careful about email but speaks freely with Dirtbag in the car. Too bad Dirtbag is very selfish and only wants to talk about himself. It doesn't look like I'm going to get much until he sets up his next "date" with ButterFace. I think that will happen shortly after our trip. My guess is that he will take her out to celebrate her new job and "thank" her for the business she got him at her old job.

I know I've said this before but what is wrong with a 39-year-old single woman who occassionally sleeps with a married father of 2(soon to be 3) and thinks that's okay?!? Don't get me wrong, I am not placing all the blame on her. I just don't get how low her self-esteem must be to think this situation is acceptable.

Thanks for letting me vent. I appreciate you checking in on me. I only wish I had more to report.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/03/10 08:37 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Thanks for checking SmilingWoman. Not much is new here. WH is on another deadline at work and we are preparing for a family vacation so he has been pretty busy. Needless to say, I am not looking forward to the trip.
I know I've said this before but what is wrong with a 39-year-old single woman who occassionally sleeps with a married father of 2(soon to be 3) and thinks that's okay?!? Don't get me wrong, I am not placing all the blame on her. I just don't get how low her self-esteem must be to think this situation is acceptable.

Thanks for letting me vent. I appreciate you checking in on me. I only wish I had more to report.

I know what you mean about the OW. In my case, she was a 24 year old married woman...with one child of her own and 2 young step-sons. Only married 1 1/2 years...Her now Xhusband makes nearly as much as my near XH but he is only 30. So what does this OW see in a 45 year old married man with a (then) 9 year old son? I'll never understand it.

What did you WH say when he caught you looking through his phone?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/03/10 08:52 PM
ButterFace is 39, has no kids and has never been married. WH is convinced she doesn't want to get married or have kids. I think he should be careful about making assumptions but he thinks he knows (he told Dirtbag all of this which is how I know).

He did not say anything about me looking at his phone but I know he knew what I was doing. I was looking at it in the kitchen in the dark. When I went upstairs, he was standing on the stairs and acted kind of nervous. I'm sure he saw the glow of his phone from me looking at it and now he keeps the phone at his hip.

It doesn't surprise me that he didn't say anything to me. He's an ostrich and would rather stick his head in the sand than deal with any confrontation. Sometimes I wonder if he is trying to get caught so that I will confront him and maybe even leave him so that he doesn't have to be the bad guy. I just don't know anymore. It seems like anything is possible with him.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/04/10 03:18 PM
The keylogger is in place and the email function is officially working! Nothing of value yet but whatever I do get from it will be information I didn't have before. Thanks so much for all the advice and support.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 06/04/10 03:36 PM
YA!!! Finally we are moving! Glad that it is working smile

Can't wait to hear the look on your WH face when you have the solid PROOF!
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/04/10 03:48 PM
I don't know how much information I will get (since he's careful about email and it is his work computer) but at least I got the Facebook password he changed earlier this week. That alone makes it worth it. Like I said, anything I get from it - no matter how small - is something I don't have now!

For those of you who have used keyloggers, did you set up the email report to send you screen shots? I have not done that since the screen shots take up a lot of space and I wouldn't get to see them all anyway. I am considering having the reports emailed to me more often (such as every 30 minutes instead of every hour) so I would be able to see at least some or even most of the screenshots. Thoughts?
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/05/10 12:19 AM
Originally Posted by anne505
I don't know how much information I will get (since he's careful about email and it is his work computer) but at least I got the Facebook password he changed earlier this week. That alone makes it worth it. Like I said, anything I get from it - no matter how small - is something I don't have now!

For those of you who have used keyloggers, did you set up the email report to send you screen shots? I have not done that since the screen shots take up a lot of space and I wouldn't get to see them all anyway. I am considering having the reports emailed to me more often (such as every 30 minutes instead of every hour) so I would be able to see at least some or even most of the screenshots. Thoughts?

Not sure why you would need screen shots..the KL I used listed every website visted so I could just click on it if I wanted to go to it. The chats and emails were logged in just as they were typed....
Posted By: V_planifolia Re: I Need Help! - 06/05/10 12:48 AM
I wonder if the screen shots could be useful in the instance where WH is, say, responding to an email from Dirtbag Friend. While WH may be very cautious w/ what he says, DB may be much more loose. So the keylogger wouldn't get you much by WH's keystrokes, but a screen shot could include an incriminating email from DB.

I haven't used a keylogger, and am not sure exactly how/what they take for screenshots, but just something that could maybe get you some more info.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/05/10 01:02 AM
Originally Posted by Mrs_Vanilla
I wonder if the screen shots could be useful in the instance where WH is, say, responding to an email from Dirtbag Friend. While WH may be very cautious w/ what he says, DB may be much more loose. So the keylogger wouldn't get you much by WH's keystrokes, but a screen shot could include an incriminating email from DB.

I haven't used a keylogger, and am not sure exactly how/what they take for screenshots, but just something that could maybe get you some more info.

She already has access to his emails....but even if she loses that access, the KL should (mind did) capture every email and sedd it to her email as an attachment.
Posted By: V_planifolia Re: I Need Help! - 06/05/10 01:04 AM
Oh, yeah. Right. Email access. Forgot about that one.

doh2

But: very cool to know it will send emails to you!
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/08/10 03:39 AM
Originally Posted by Mrs_Vanilla
Oh, yeah. Right. Email access. Forgot about that one.

doh2

But: very cool to know it will send emails to you!

Anne,....I need an update. smile Are you on vacation?
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 06/08/10 02:07 PM
I was thinking the same thing!

Anne we are dying to know if the key logger works!!
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 06/08/10 02:23 PM
Same here, Anne. What's up?
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 06/09/10 03:07 AM
hhmm...very curious why Anne hasn't been on, must be something big smile
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/09/10 03:57 AM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
hhmm...very curious why Anne hasn't been on, must be something big smile

She mentioned getting ready for vacation....maybe it was for this week.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 06/09/10 01:33 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
She mentioned getting ready for vacation....maybe it was for this week.


YOUR RIGHT! smile
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/11/10 02:23 PM
Hello all. Thanks for checking in. Nothing new at all because we were on vacation. Now it's back to the grind and hoping I get what I need soon.

WH emailed OW/ButterFace before we left to let her know he would talk to her when he got back. He ended the email with "See ya". See how he keeps it so innocent on email? Anyway, she is keeping her job and will be supervising the work he does with her company. She will also work from home on Thursdays and Fridays. This means it's the worst of both worlds. The original plan was to change jobs which would have her closeby all the time but not work with him. Not only will she be working with him but she will be closeby on the days he tends to work outside of his office. Convenient, huh?

Dirtbag Friend did text WH during or trip to tell him he needs to talk to him because he met someone. Seriously, where does this guy find all these women? Of course WH didn't mention it to me at all. I wish WH was as easy to catch.

Thanks again for checking in. You are a terrific group of people!
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/11/10 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
WH emailed OW/ButterFace before we left to let her know he would talk to her when he got back. He ended the email with "See ya". See how he keeps it so innocent on email? Anyway, she is keeping her job and will be supervising the work he does with her company. She will also work from home on Thursdays and Fridays. This means it's the worst of both worlds. The original plan was to change jobs which would have her closeby all the time but not work with him. Not only will she be working with him but she will be closeby on the days he tends to work outside of his office. Convenient, huh?

It is 'the worst' in that if your WH wants to continue in his adulterous relationship with this OW he easily can....however, you have MUCH more ammo than you realize and he will be easy to catch eventually. He thinks he is very very clever. I've said this before and I stand by it....those types get blinders on to the intel work going on around them because they think they've covered all their bases. He thinks he has you so snowed. Just keep up the good front and he will eventually trip up and you will have all the evidence you need to 1)help you decide what to do 2)prevent him from further gas lighting you 3)aid you in a legal battle if that is what you decide to do.

I know my view on your situation....and your handling of it, doesn't sit well with many MBs here...but they are used to a much different kind of WS. FTR, I hope I am totally wrong about him and the worst thing he does is talk fake trash to his DB friend. But I don't think I'm wrong. And you don't either Anne or you wouldn't be continuing this snooping for so long. My biggest fear is that he will not be caught before you baby arrives. You need this settled. (((Anne)))
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 06/11/10 02:34 PM
Quote
This means it's the worst of both worlds.
I know what you're saying, but I think it's going to make your snooping easier. And if there really is something going on, I think this is going to be where you'll find out.

Quote
I wish WH was as easy to catch.
I forget - DirtBag's married, right? What's the story with his W?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/11/10 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I know my view on your situation....and your handling of it, doesn't sit well with many MBs here...but they are used to a much different kind of WS.

I am very aware of this. I've been wondering if it's time for me to move on.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/11/10 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
I know what you're saying, but I think it's going to make your snooping easier. And if there really is something going on, I think this is going to be where you'll find out.

I forget - DirtBag's married, right? What's the story with his W?

You're right, it will help me get what I need. Regardless of what some people might think, I am more than ready to get to the bottom of this.

Dirtbag is married and his wife could easily catch him. She's been given more than enough evidence on more than one occasion but she chooses to belive his lies. I will tell her what I know once I deal with my own situation but I don't think it will change anything for her.
Posted By: chrisner Re: I Need Help! - 06/11/10 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I know my view on your situation....and your handling of it, doesn't sit well with many MBs here...but they are used to a much different kind of WS.

I am very aware of this. I've been wondering if it's time for me to move on.

Hang in there anne. I hope for you to get the undeniable "smoking gun" every day. Every time I see you update I hope it's the big one.

Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/11/10 08:15 PM
Thanks Chrisner, I hope so too! This is just such a surreal situation. Even my therapist is shocked by what is going on. I asked her point blank how many times she had come across a situation like mine and she said, "Never". She's been doing her job for 20 years. Not exactly comforting to hear from her but I'm glad she's honest. I think my problem is that the Dirtbag Friend is as much, if not more, of a problem than OW/ButterFace. Given that, it can be hard to negotiate my way through this.

SmilingWoman, I hope you are right and that he is comfortable enough to slip up and give me the proof I so badly need/want. I fully believe that I am doing the best I can given this strange situation. You have been so helpful and I really appreciate it!
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/12/10 03:35 AM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I know my view on your situation....and your handling of it, doesn't sit well with many MBs here...but they are used to a much different kind of WS.

I am very aware of this. I've been wondering if it's time for me to move on.

What do you mean move on? Not from MB I hope......I live for your updates. You remind me so much of myself.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/12/10 03:38 AM
Originally Posted by anne505
Even my therapist is shocked by what is going on. I asked her point blank how many times she had come across a situation like mine and she said, "Never".

This reminds me of when I first came here and something that I posted got a response from Melody Lane along the lines of 'I think your husband is a sociopath.' This was before I discovered just how Wayward he was. I will never forget that. I've never seen her post such a reply since.

Originally Posted by anne505
SmilingWoman, I hope you are right and that he is comfortable enough to slip up and give me the proof I so badly need/want. I fully believe that I am doing the best I can given this strange situation. You have been so helpful and I really appreciate it!

Glad to help. I am thankful for the help I got which led to me discovering the truth and I'm happy to repay where I can.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/12/10 12:40 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
What do you mean move on? Not from MB I hope......I live for your updates. You remind me so much of myself.

Acutally, that is what I mean. I get so much support from you and a few others but I know that my situation is not exactly fit for MB at this point. I'm not sure it's fair for me to be here anymore.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/12/10 12:44 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Glad to help. I am thankful for the help I got which led to me discovering the truth and I'm happy to repay where I can.

You have been more helpful to me than you will ever know. I'm always happy to see a post from you. Since you seem to have gone through something very similar to me (minus the presence of a Dirtbag Friend), your advice and kind words mean so much. The fact that you understand my need to know exactly what is going on before I confront has been comforting since I know that many people on here don't get that. My road to the truth has been a long one but I will get there. Thanks for helping me along the way.
Posted By: KaylaAndy Re: I Need Help! - 06/12/10 02:26 PM
Anne - I understand if you choose to move on from MB.

But here's the thing I hope you get out of your time here.

While there are certain conditions under which Plan A will not work (addiction, sociopathy), the "conditioning" that the betrayed spouse gets out of being on marriage builders includes the following:


  • Determine what you want out of life and out of your marriage - clearly defined
  • Determine what you have to do on your part to become the person who can live/receive that, independent and irrespective of what your wayward spouse does or doesn't do.
  • Become mentally tough. For the time being, you learn to and choose to ignore the elephant in the living room while you put yourself through basic training for your head and heart.
  • Get to it. Take Action. Whether it's weight loss, activity, income/job, domestic support, whatever is needed, you act on it
  • At the appropriate time (You'll know when you're ready), continue these steps with the wayward out of your space (Plan B) in preparation for further measures that may become necessary (divorce).


These are the gifts of Marriage Builders for an individual recovery that may or may not become marital recovery.

For you Anne, you may or may not get the proof that you feel you need to confront him. But if you follow marriage builders for yourself, at some point in the future, you will become mentally tough enough to say proof doesn't matter. "I'm not happy with the sneaky deceitful NATURE of my husband" will be all you need to throw the switch and decide that your husband's character warrants Plan B, where he can choose reformation, which will include final and permanent no contact with Dirtbag, open access to his computer and cell phone and everything that he has in order to preserve his relationship with you. You will be able to look him in the eye and say, "I FEEL deceived - your actions make me feel UNSAFE and it's up to you to prove your innocence by changed actions - I don't have to prove anything to you."

Wouldn't that place be liberating to you in your situation?

You're so close to that already.

I hope you choose to stay and work this kind of a plan.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/12/10 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Glad to help. I am thankful for the help I got which led to me discovering the truth and I'm happy to repay where I can.

You have been more helpful to me than you will ever know. I'm always happy to see a post from you. Since you seem to have gone through something very similar to me (minus the presence of a Dirtbag Friend), your advice and kind words mean so much. The fact that you understand my need to know exactly what is going on before I confront has been comforting since I know that many people on here don't get that. My road to the truth has been a long one but I will get there. Thanks for helping me along the way.

I have since discovered that WXH had quite of few DB like friends. He kept me from them all the time, but I'm hearing things about them now that really let me know he was running around with DB people....birds of a feather flock together and all that.

If you would like my email address just let me know. I'm happy to help. Hoping you get something definitive soon.
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/12/10 04:27 PM
I have read this thread, Anne, and all I can say is that I wish you recovery, peace, and happiness. I believe your marriage is recoverable, because I believe (hope) that my own is. And I was so awful for so long. Your WH sounds like me, only not nearly as bad for nearly as long. The jury (my BS) is still out on my marriage, but I am working at it. Your WH needs this crisis and exposure and collapse of his secretive life and needs to learn that you are an amazing and strong, loving woman who wants to give him a chance to work this program and become a decent human being and husband. I have to believe there is a chance for him, because I am counting on the hope that there is a chance for me with my BS. If you get the info you need and break this, and he breaks down and becomes willing to work this program, have him read my threads. I think I can help him understand the things he needs to do to change and be the person you thought you knew when you married him.
Posted By: Nowisthemoment Re: I Need Help! - 06/13/10 05:31 AM
Hi Anne505

I read your thread and felt compelled to encourage you to continue on. When I was unfaithful to my H I ended up meeting guys like your H and, more so, DB friend. The intellectual, bright, accomplished, professional glossy world. The guys I met (mostly married) were entitled, narcissistic, charismatic, very careful and unbelievably good liars. Often these never hid their wives and families. They regaled stories of their children, showed baby pictures and told of all the lovely things they do for their families. Declaring their undying commitment to their spouse but professing their love to some stupid OW. The self entitlement is galling. The matter of fact way in which their affairs were carried out were astounding. The matter of fact way in which grown women swallowed and believed the stories - pathetic. The history of affairs (often cheating over their many years of marriage) was/is shocking to me. Falling in and out of 'love' - ridiculous. It is, among many circles, an acceptable life style. I had girlfriends (and please note 'had') that on the surface of things, gained very nice things from the life style. Shopping trips, dinners out when the guy was in town, phone calls and texts, even being flown out to various destinations when the guy was on business. Even, on occasion, inhabited the same social circle of their wife!! These guys are low and slippery.

Now, maybe your H hasn't done all this but he seems to be in that world and very much influenced by DB friend. (Correct me if I am wrong).

I urge you to press on. Maybe your H will have a repentant outcome and turn his life around. However, for yourself, you must see this through. Many women compromise and settle through fear. They turn a blind eye. I totally understand why. However, only you have to know what you can live with. I agree with KaylaAndy's post.

You clearly an intuitive, strong, capable, loving and faithful wife. I sense you will not settle for second best. Your story does need to be told, so please do not go away. There are other women that are in your position and reading along. Not everyones journey is the same.

I don't know if anything I have said is of any value to you but I want you to know that I admire your tenacity and wish you nothing but the very best outcome for yourself and your growing family.

Take care.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/13/10 01:25 PM
Originally Posted by Nowisthemoment
Hi Anne505 I read your thread and felt compelled to encourage you to continue on. When I was unfaithful to my H I ended up meeting guys like your H and, more so, DB friend. The intellectual, bright, accomplished, professional glossy world. The guys I met (mostly married) were entitled, narcissistic, charismatic, very careful and unbelievably good liars. Often these never hid their wives and families. They regaled stories of their children, showed baby pictures and told of all the lovely things they do for their families. Declaring their undying commitment to their spouse but professing their love to some stupid OW. The self entitlement is galling.>>> Even, on occasion, inhabited the same social circle of their wife!! These guys are low and slippery.>>>


I urge you to press on. Maybe your H will have a repentant outcome and turn his life around. However, for yourself, you must see this through. Many women compromise and settle through fear. They turn a blind eye. I totally understand why. However, only you have to know what you can live with. I agree with KaylaAndy's post.

Anne, when I was in the corporate world I knew a man like the above description. He was bigger than life to me...One of the owners of the company I worked for. I worked with him for 10 years. He locked his eye on me the day he walked in and hit on me hard for the next 10 years. I never fell for that bait but I am ashamed now to admit how much I admired his business mind and how flattered I was by his attn. I was 23 when he first came. He was responsible for my promotions. He often arranged for me to travel with him. One time after he walked by and made a particularly brazen comment to me, I asked a male co-worker standing nearby, 'Why does he keep doing that after all these years of being ignored by me?' This man said, 'he just keeps slinging it out there to see what might stick.'

Around the same time I met a woman, my age, who had known this man since she was a little girl. She knew him very well....knew all about his history. She was the one who really helped me see that although he was brilliant in many ways he was a DB. I've been gone from that company for 10 years now. Last week I had a long chat with that woman---catching up on the years----and we discussed this man. She still works in the industry and sees him often.

We talked about what a DB he really was/is and wondered how his wife has put up with it all these years. I don't want you to be that woman.

And although I have a hard time realizing it I guess that is the type of man my now XH turned into as he came up in the corporate world.

My friend told me that our former boss is really looking old and worn these days. And his wife is still with him....everyone thinking she is a fool. Their children are grown...they have grandchildren now...I often wonder how they feel about their life. Are they happy? Does she love him? Does he love her? Is he still actively cheating on her and hitting on other women constantly? I guess that is the type of man that keeps acting the way he did in his 20s and 30s even as he approaches 60! Wow.

Anyway I agree that you need to stick around. Your story IS worth hearing. I know there is a part of you that wishes you could go back to not knowing...just live your happy life with your husband who appears to adore you, raise your children, be a SAHM....I know because there were days just before and after I put the keylogger on that I wished I could just go back and not know. But that is not living an authentic life and I am glad I know now and that I am out of that mess.

You and your WH are young enough that there is the possibility you can expose him and that he will realize he needs to change. Either way you need the truth.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
For you Anne, you may or may not get the proof that you feel you need to confront him. But if you follow marriage builders for yourself, at some point in the future, you will become mentally tough enough to say proof doesn't matter. "I'm not happy with the sneaky deceitful NATURE of my husband" will be all you need to throw the switch and decide that your husband's character warrants Plan B, where he can choose reformation, which will include final and permanent no contact with Dirtbag, open access to his computer and cell phone and everything that he has in order to preserve his relationship with you. You will be able to look him in the eye and say, "I FEEL deceived - your actions make me feel UNSAFE and it's up to you to prove your innocence by changed actions - I don't have to prove anything to you."

Wouldn't that place be liberating to you in your situation?

You're so close to that already.

I hope you choose to stay and work this kind of a plan.

Thank you KaylaAndy. You certainly put that into the right words. I think you are right, I am so close. MB has been so helpful, I guess it would be stupid to leave now. Thanks so much for the clarity.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 01:54 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I have since discovered that WXH had quite of few DB like friends. He kept me from them all the time, but I'm hearing things about them now that really let me know he was running around with DB people....birds of a feather flock together and all that.

If you would like my email address just let me know. I'm happy to help. Hoping you get something definitive soon.

Wow, we have so much in common. I feel so stupid for knowing what DB was like and not realizing why WH is such good friends with him (BEST friends). I would love to hear from you on a personal level. I hope I get something I feel comfortable with soon. Thanks for always hearing me.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 01:58 PM
Originally Posted by GreenMile
I have read this thread, Anne, and all I can say is that I wish you recovery, peace, and happiness. I believe your marriage is recoverable, because I believe (hope) that my own is. And I was so awful for so long. Your WH sounds like me, only not nearly as bad for nearly as long. The jury (my BS) is still out on my marriage, but I am working at it.

Thank you GreenMile, it interesting to hear from someone on the other "side" of this problem. However, I have no idea if WH will want to stay with me or if he will feel liberated once I confront and then will be choose to go live this lifestyle freely and openly. I don't know him anymore and have no idea what will happen. I do wish you luck in trying to fix on your marriage. I hope your W gives you a second chance.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 02:03 PM
Originally Posted by Nowisthemoment
I urge you to press on. Maybe your H will have a repentant outcome and turn his life around. However, for yourself, you must see this through. Many women compromise and settle through fear. They turn a blind eye. I totally understand why. However, only you have to know what you can live with. I agree with KaylaAndy's post.


I have already made the decision that I will not compromise and will not turn a blind eye (although some might think that is what I'm doing now). I know that is not the life for me.

Originally Posted by Nowisthemoment
You clearly an intuitive, strong, capable, loving and faithful wife. I sense you will not settle for second best. Your story does need to be told, so please do not go away. There are other women that are in your position and reading along. Not everyones journey is the same.

Thank you for saying that, especially the part about nto everyone's journey being the same. I think some on MB tend to forget that there is no set formula for As and therefore, no set way to deal with them. I am not going away and will continue to tell my story and see advice. So thankful for all the wonderful people on here. Thank you for being one of them!
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 02:07 PM
Quote
Thank you for saying that, especially the part about nto everyone's journey being the same. I think some on MB tend to forget that there is no set formula for As and therefore, no set way to deal with them. I am not going away and will continue to tell my story and see advice. So thankful for all the wonderful people on here. Thank you for being one of them!

This is very good to hear, Anne. Although many/most A's follow a typical pattern, it's wise to remember that they aren't from a cookie cutter mold. I think you've been steadfast and diligent in a M that has a different slant, and you've chosen your path. Don't fall off the path now - I think you are very close to the end of your ordeal.

And don't you think for one minute about not posting here anymore, missy. grin
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 02:08 PM
I keep checking your thread when I see you've posted, Anne, hoping that you have found something that confirms one way or another, what's going on and ends this state of limbo for you.

Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
We talked about what a DB he really was/is and wondered how his wife has put up with it all these years. I don't want you to be that woman.

I agree and do not want to be that woman. I do wonder if WH's coworkers already look at me that way. No matter what happens, they won't for much longer!

Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Anyway I agree that you need to stick around. Your story IS worth hearing. I know there is a part of you that wishes you could go back to not knowing...just live your happy life with your husband who appears to adore you, raise your children, be a SAHM....I know because there were days just before and after I put the keylogger on that I wished I could just go back and not know. But that is not living an authentic life and I am glad I know now and that I am out of that mess.

I am staying on MB and have no illusion that I could ever go back to my life before this and pretend it never happened. My life has changed for ever and will never be the same. My goal right now is to find my new normal.


Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
You and your WH are young enough that there is the possibility you can expose him and that he will realize he needs to change. Either way you need the truth.


You're right, I need the truth! I hope I get it soon.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 02:10 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
This is very good to hear, Anne. Although many/most A's follow a typical pattern, it's wise to remember that they aren't from a cookie cutter mold. I think you've been steadfast and diligent in a M that has a different slant, and you've chosen your path. Don't fall off the path now - I think you are very close to the end of your ordeal.

And don't you think for one minute about not posting here anymore, missy. grin

Thanks Marital Bliss. I really don't know what I would do without all the support I get here. It's good to know that so many good people are in my corner.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 02:12 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
I keep checking your thread when I see you've posted, Anne, hoping that you have found something that confirms one way or another, what's going on and ends this state of limbo for you.

Me too! I look forward (in a way) to the day when I can finally post that I have what I need and confronted him abuot this. I do know that something rotten is going on but need to be sure what it is and how far it goes (would also be nice to know ho long it's been going on). In case you haven't already noticed, I'm very fact and detail driven!
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 02:19 PM
Thanks to all the wonderful people who posted such warm and encouraging messages to me. I had a difficult week since I was on vacation with WH and kids. Don't get me wrong, I did have fun with my kids but I was an emotional wreck inside with no outlet for all the feelings I was dealing with. And taking a week from from getting intel was hard. It felt like treading water in the ocean.

I am staying on MB but I want everyone to know that if I had left, I was still going to snoop until I got my evidence to confront. Pretending I don't know or turing a blind eye was never - and will never be - and option for me. My road to the truth has been longer than I anticipated. But, I've come this far and I'm in it for the long haul. Everything I do is for the purpose of getting the best possible outcome for my children and myself. That outcome remains to be seen.

Thanks again to everyone! I am keeping my fingers crossed that I will have something more solid to go on soon. I just feel like I'm missing the last, and most important, piece of the puzzle.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 02:39 PM
Smiling Woman:

I've lost your email address. I created this email addy for just MB posts and now I can't find your original emails to me. I'd love to chat with you again. Can you email me at ourhouse53@gmail.com

Thanks.
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 04:07 PM
"Thank you GreenMile, it interesting to hear from someone on the other "side" of this problem. However, I have no idea if WH will want to stay with me or if he will feel liberated once I confront and then will be choose to go live this lifestyle freely and openly. I don't know him anymore and have no! idea what will happen. I do wish you luck in trying to fix on your marriage. I hope your W gives you a second chance. "

Well, she is, and it is extremely difficult for her. The only reason she is, is because she sees my transformation and commitment and efforts day to day and moment to moment. Even with that, it may not be enough for her. Being retired and spending 24 hr per day together has provided this chance. I know that would not be the case for you. If your WH is busted but stays uninterested in making those profound changes, changing his "friends", de-commissioning his ego and sacrificing everything for you, then you should overcome the fears and free yourself and give yourself a chance to find real happiness. You are young and have children who deserve to see what honesty and real love means in a marriage.

Yesterday, I saw again on TV the movie, "Castaway". It is one of my favorites. In the end, though Chuck Noland is saved and rescued, he has lost the love of his life, but he realizes that he has to keep breathing, is obligated to go on, because, "you never know what the wind will blow your way". Don't be afraid to move on. Respect yourself.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 05:09 PM
@GreenMile - I'm so happy that your W decided to give you a second chance. I wish you all the best. If my WH does not wish to change then I will have no problem kicking him to the curb. It won't be easy but it will be for the best.

Bad news...it appers he has found the keylogger I installed on his laptop. I'm not getting any reports emailed to me and he's on his computer right now (he sent me emails this morning). They are scheduled to be emailed to me every hour so I should have recieved at least two by now. The only reason I can think of that I would not be getting the reports is that someone removed the software. I'm pretty bummed about this setback. He is not the type to confront so I know he won't say anything to me about it. He will wait for me to be the one to bring it up. Well, I'm not...not until I know more. I guess the cat and mouse games continue for a little while longer. Hopefully the VAR is safe because it's my only hope!
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 05:12 PM
Anne, when I used my keylogger, there were a few times here and there that I did not get reports every hour and it was due to server issues. So, even though it could be a real possibility that he found and disabled it, keep up hope that this could be your keylogger's server issues. The keylogger records the keystrokes and sends them to their own server. Then the re-email them to you.

It's like my blackberry. Sometimes I'll get an email in my inbox and my Bberry signals me almost the same time. And other times, it's 10, 15 or even 1/2 hour later. If the server is down or jammed up, it holds things up.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 05:13 PM
BUMMER!

I was soo looking forward about you getting some good emails, so you can finally expose this frown

Sorry Anne, just keep going! We know you are very strong, and you know there will be an end to this misery someday. smile
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
Anne, when I used my keylogger, there were a few times here and there that I did not get reports every hour and it was due to server issues. So, even though it could be a real possibility that he found and disabled it, keep up hope that this could be your keylogger's server issues. The keylogger records the keystrokes and sends them to their own server. Then the re-email them to you.

I guess that's possible but not very likely. One of his co-workers who happens to be very good with technology had his laptop while we were out of town. My guess is he found it and disabled it. There is no way WH would have found it but I bet this guy did.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
BUMMER!

I was soo looking forward about you getting some good emails, so you can finally expose this frown

Sorry Anne, just keep going! We know you are very strong, and you know there will be an end to this misery someday. smile

I KNOW!!! The worst part is this means he is on to me and will change his passwords. That leaves me with the VAR as my only hope (provided he doesn't search the car and find it). I knew this could happen and just might have to figure out how to confront with what I already have. It's not impossible but it won't be easy. I keep trying to remember that everything happens for a reason.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
Anne, when I used my keylogger, there were a few times here and there that I did not get reports every hour and it was due to server issues. So, even though it could be a real possibility that he found and disabled it, keep up hope that this could be your keylogger's server issues. The keylogger records the keystrokes and sends them to their own server. Then the re-email them to you.

It's like my blackberry. Sometimes I'll get an email in my inbox and my Bberry signals me almost the same time. And other times, it's 10, 15 or even 1/2 hour later. If the server is down or jammed up, it holds things up.

I experienced this too....don't panic yet Anne...not sure why he would find it. That would really surprise me.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
Smiling Woman:

I've lost your email address. I created this email addy for just MB posts and now I can't find your original emails to me. I'd love to chat with you again. Can you email me at

Thanks.

I just sent you an email...I will be back in town late tomorrow.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by OurHouse
Anne, when I used my keylogger, there were a few times here and there that I did not get reports every hour and it was due to server issues. So, even though it could be a real possibility that he found and disabled it, keep up hope that this could be your keylogger's server issues. The keylogger records the keystrokes and sends them to their own server. Then the re-email them to you.

I guess that's possible but not very likely. One of his co-workers who happens to be very good with technology had his laptop while we were out of town. My guess is he found it and disabled it. There is no way WH would have found it but I bet this guy did.

Hmmmmm....why did the co-worker have it? I would say just reinstall it if it really is gone. If your WH keeps his laptop out of your hands you will know he suspects you.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 08:33 PM
If you do have to re-install, see if you can purchase Eblaster. They are (IMO) the best and most undetectable.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 08:54 PM
I should know tomorrow what's going on. He might have borrowed the co-workers laptop and left his at the office. The good news is that he did not change his password so I should be able to get into it if I need to reinstall. I will use Eblaster if I have to do that. Thanks again!
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/14/10 11:59 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I should know tomorrow what's going on. He might have borrowed the co-workers laptop and left his at the office. The good news is that he did not change his password so I should be able to get into it if I need to reinstall. I will use Eblaster if I have to do that. Thanks again!

EBlaster works great. We got it to help with my wife's peace of mind. She put it on both my computers. It is completely invisible. I have Macs, but I am sure the PC version is the same.
Posted By: KaylaAndy Re: I Need Help! - 06/15/10 02:28 AM
Anne,

I have to tell you - your husband and his relationship with DB just creeps me out.

Know why?

When one man has a personality disorder, he still needs an enabler, and there aren't too many who get hooked up with another sociopath.

"Criminal Minds" is a show I watched a particular episode that keeps coming to mind every time I read an update from you.

While your husband doesn't have a murderous intent, he definitely has met his dirt-bag match in DB.

If you care to be horrified too, look for the episode called "Soul Mates" out of season 4.
Posted By: KaylaAndy Re: I Need Help! - 06/15/10 02:30 AM
I guess the reason I shared the above information with you, is that I don't know if you have thought through how far their deviancy goes. And what you might have to go through to recover your marriage.

Have you thought this through that you even want to find proof?

I don't normally run around saying DIVORCE. But your case reminds me of Smiling Woman's situation and a couple of others here who got a whole lot healthier once they cut their losses.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/15/10 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
I have to tell you - your husband and his relationship with DB just creeps me out.

I am creeped out too. It's all part of why I feel such a strong need to find out exactly what's going on.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/15/10 02:48 PM
Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
Have you thought this through that you even want to find proof?

I don't normally run around saying DIVORCE. But your case reminds me of Smiling Woman's situation and a couple of others here who got a whole lot healthier once they cut their losses.

Yes. I know it's going to be more painful that I can ever imagine but I must get proof in order to move on. It's just something I need.

Part of why I need proof is that I know that divorce is a probable outcome for me. Since I am able to file on grounds of adultery, I need proof of it.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/15/10 02:53 PM
It looks like he actually borrowed his co-workers computer yesterday (I had thought the co-worker had his computer). He's back in the office today and the reports are being emailed to me. He's started texting with DB instead of emailing so I might be cut off. I can no longer get to his phone so I can't read the texts. Also, he wasn't where he said he would be (at least for part of the day). Looks like I may need to get a GPS for his car afterall because I have no clue where he was yesterday morning.

All this snooping is exhausting! I will be glad when this is over.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 06/15/10 03:13 PM
Anne, why would he need to borrow his co-worker's computer? I'm reaching here, but do you think he did it because he wants to avoid having anything on his computer, should you eventually file and his stuff gets subpoena'd? You did say he was a lawyer.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/15/10 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
Anne, why would he need to borrow his co-worker's computer? I'm reaching here, but do you think he did it because he wants to avoid having anything on his computer, should you eventually file and his stuff gets subpoena'd? You did say he was a lawyer.

He left his at work before we left for vacation. He needed a computer to work on for Monday but he wasn't going to be in the office. This co-worker lives nearby so he borrowed his. You're right, he might want to keep whatever he did off his computer yesterday. He's very careful about the computer.

He's spending the day with DB tomorrow. He told me he has a meeting in the city we live near (he may or may not, I don't know) but I know he's spending the day (or at least some of it) with DB. He asked if I needed him to be home before rush hour so they must have some big plans for the day. He had some big plans for Friday night which are not out because my dad wants to come visit. None of this has been mentioned to me at all.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/16/10 02:53 AM
Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
I guess the reason I shared the above information with you, is that I don't know if you have thought through how far their deviancy goes. And what you might have to go through to recover your marriage.

Have you thought this through that you even want to find proof?

I don't normally run around saying DIVORCE. But your case reminds me of Smiling Woman's situation and a couple of others here who got a whole lot healthier once they cut their losses.

I love that show KA. I will have to go find that episode. I am glad I am not just imagining things when I say Anne's WH reminds me of mine.

Anne, I can't imagine that your WH borrowed a lap top and did anything on it he would mind others knowing. That part was probably innocent...as I was driving out of town yesterday I thought....Anne's WH didn't find the keylogger because if he did he would be changing his work email password...glad to see I was right!

I think GPS is your next step.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/16/10 02:55 AM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by OurHouse
Anne, why would he need to borrow his co-worker's computer? I'm reaching here, but do you think he did it because he wants to avoid having anything on his computer, should you eventually file and his stuff gets subpoena'd? You did say he was a lawyer.

He left his at work before we left for vacation. He needed a computer to work on for Monday but he wasn't going to be in the office. This co-worker lives nearby so he borrowed his. You're right, he might want to keep whatever he did off his computer yesterday. He's very careful about the computer.

He's spending the day with DB tomorrow. He told me he has a meeting in the city we live near (he may or may not, I don't know) but I know he's spending the day (or at least some of it) with DB. He asked if I needed him to be home before rush hour so they must have some big plans for the day. He had some big plans for Friday night which are not out because my dad wants to come visit. None of this has been mentioned to me at all.

Interesting....my WXH often used to spend time with the family....like vacation...and then come home and do something he shouldn't have been doing. Like he put in his 'time' with us and needed his fix elsewhere. Creepy.
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/16/10 06:02 AM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by OurHouse
Anne, why would he need to borrow his co-worker's computer? I'm reaching here, but do you think he did it because he wants to avoid having anything on his computer, should you eventually file and his stuff gets subpoena'd? You did say he was a lawyer.

He left his at work before we left for vacation. He needed a computer to work on for Monday but he wasn't going to be in the office. This co-worker lives nearby so he borrowed his. You're right, he might want to keep whatever he did off his computer yesterday. He's very careful about the computer.

He's spending the day with DB tomorrow. He told me he has a meeting in the city we live near (he may or may not, I don't know) but I know he's spending the day (or at least some of it) with DB. He asked if I needed him to be home before rush hour so they must have some big plans for the day. He had some big plans for Friday night which are not out because my dad wants to come visit. None of this has been mentioned to me at all.

Interesting....my WXH often used to spend time with the family....like vacation...and then come home and do something he shouldn't have been doing. Like he put in his 'time' with us and needed his fix elsewhere. Creepy.

Sounds disturbingly familiar. In fact, "creepy" is probably the best word. I was that guy.

If I could unravel and profoundly change, maybe there is hope for Anne's WH, too. All things are possible. I really believe that now. In fact, I am certain of it. But there has to be total destruction. There is no slow easy way about it. The sooner the better.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/16/10 01:17 PM
Originally Posted by GreenMile
If I could unravel and profoundly change, maybe there is hope for Anne's WH, too. All things are possible. I really believe that now. In fact, I am certain of it. But there has to be total destruction. There is no slow easy way about it. The sooner the better.

I'm losing hope every day. I found out that he told me he was working on Monday and spent the day with Dirtbag (he told him he had a day off). I'm getting so tired of this. I think I'm going to call a divorce attorney to see what my options are.
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/16/10 02:27 PM
You shouldn't lose hope until you have confronted him and busted him and see if his fog lifts and he is willing to start working.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/16/10 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by GreenMile
If I could unravel and profoundly change, maybe there is hope for Anne's WH, too. All things are possible. I really believe that now. In fact, I am certain of it. But there has to be total destruction. There is no slow easy way about it. The sooner the better.

I'm losing hope every day. I found out that he told me he was working on Monday and spent the day with Dirtbag (he told him he had a day off). I'm getting so tired of this. I think I'm going to call a divorce attorney to see what my options are.

What did they spend the day doing? I definitely think you need to consult an attorney...even if you decide to repair the marriage you need to know what your options are. And the attorney will probably have a PI name to give you....A good PI could find out stuff quickly that is taking you months to uncover. For instance....if you had a PI you could have had your WH followed today.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/16/10 04:12 PM
Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
For you Anne, you may or may not get the proof that you feel you need to confront him. But if you follow marriage builders for yourself, at some point in the future, you will become mentally tough enough to say proof doesn't matter. "I'm not happy with the sneaky deceitful NATURE of my husband" will be all you need to throw the switch and decide that your husband's character warrants Plan B, where he can choose reformation, which will include final and permanent no contact with Dirtbag, open access to his computer and cell phone and everything that he has in order to preserve his relationship with you. You will be able to look him in the eye and say, "I FEEL deceived - your actions make me feel UNSAFE and it's up to you to prove your innocence by changed actions - I don't have to prove anything to you."

Wouldn't that place be liberating to you in your situation?

You're so close to that already.

I hope you choose to stay and work this kind of a plan.

Anne, I think KA's above post bears reposting. Especially the part I've made red....I know you want proof....and I hope you get it. But KA is right....with or without proof you can and WILL get to the above point.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/16/10 06:02 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
What did they spend the day doing? I definitely think you need to consult an attorney...even if you decide to repair the marriage you need to know what your options are. And the attorney will probably have a PI name to give you....A good PI could find out stuff quickly that is taking you months to uncover. For instance....if you had a PI you could have had your WH followed today.

They went to the casino. They also made plans to go to dinner and a strip club Friday night (as WH put it, "I need a naked woman to sit on my lap."). Those plans were put on hold since my father decided to come visit.

I am going to see an attorney in the next few weeks. I think I know which one I want to use. I just need to find someone to watch my kids.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/16/10 06:06 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
What did they spend the day doing? I definitely think you need to consult an attorney...even if you decide to repair the marriage you need to know what your options are. And the attorney will probably have a PI name to give you....A good PI could find out stuff quickly that is taking you months to uncover. For instance....if you had a PI you could have had your WH followed today.

They went to the casino. They also made plans to go to dinner and a strip club Friday night (as WH put it, "I need a naked woman to sit on my lap."). Those plans were put on hold since my father decided to come visit.

I am going to see an attorney in the next few weeks. I think I know which one I want to use. I just need to find someone to watch my kids.

Yeah he is definitely living two very different lives.

Ug.

I know all about finding someone to watch your child/children when needing to take care of business you don't want them to mention...it is hard...
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/16/10 06:07 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Anne, I think KA's above post bears reposting. Especially the part I've made red....I know you want proof....and I hope you get it. But KA is right....with or without proof you can and WILL get to the above point.

Yes, I agree. But I know I need to get to the point where I will be strong enough not to believe his lies which is why I want proof so badly. As stupid as it sounds, I don't trust myself not to fall for his lies. I've loved and trusted this man for 20 years. I'm afraid of what might happen if I confront without knowing more. He's such a good liar and I'm afraid I might start to second guess myself. Which would play right into his hand and put me in an even worse situation that I'm currently in.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/16/10 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Yeah he is definitely living two very different lives.

Yes, he is and it's making me sick.

Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I know all about finding someone to watch your child/children when needing to take care of business you don't want them to mention...it is hard...

With the kids out of school, I don't have as much freedom so I need to plan more carefully. They have camp starting in July so I will have more flexibility and can meet with a lawyer then. I know that's what I need to do no matter what. I would rather have a good idea of what my options are before I confront him. I really want to get that meeting set up but I've waited this long, what a few more weeks, huh?
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/16/10 06:12 PM
To him, you are a brood mare. He will dump you once the foals are older unless you reverse this now. Raging independent behavior and arrogance. I know this type very, very well. You need to establish yourself as the lead mare. You have to kick him, and kick him now...hard. Get a PI and see your attorney. But careful with the attorney. They know divorce, only. To a hammer, every problem is a nail. MB can recover this thing and put you in the driver's seat. You will get better advice from this program.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 06/16/10 06:20 PM
Quote
They also made plans to go to dinner and a strip club Friday night (as WH put it, "I need a naked woman to sit on my lap.

Oh Anne, this is heartbreaking. NO husband should *ever* feel a need to say this, unless he's talking about his own wife!
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/16/10 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by GreenMile
To him, you are a brood mare. He will dump you once the foals are older unless you reverse this now. Raging independent behavior and arrogance. I know this type very, very well. You need to establish yourself as the lead mare. You have to kick him, and kick him now...hard. Get a PI and see your attorney. But careful with the attorney. They know divorce, only. To a hammer, every problem is a nail. MB can recover this thing and put you in the driver's seat. You will get better advice from this program.

Not sure there is any hope for us at all. I'm losing hope every day. Seeing the attorney is only for me to know what my options are finacially, etc. I am a stay at home mom so a divorce will have a major effect on my life. I'd like to know what I'm getting into so I know my options before I confront him.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/16/10 11:06 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
Oh Anne, this is heartbreaking. NO husband should *ever* feel a need to say this, unless he's talking about his own wife!

Yes, it is heartbreaking. I thank you for saying that - I appreciate it. It's nice to know that others feel some sympathy for what I am going through.

No idea where he was today. He went to court with Dirtbag today and was gone most of the day. He didn't even check his email although he made a point to take his computer with him since he was supposed to work after court. I'm so tired of all of this.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/17/10 12:31 AM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by OurHouse
Oh Anne, this is heartbreaking. NO husband should *ever* feel a need to say this, unless he's talking about his own wife!

Yes, it is heartbreaking. I thank you for saying that - I appreciate it. It's nice to know that others feel some sympathy for what I am going through.

No idea where he was today. He went to court with Dirtbag today and was gone most of the day. He didn't even check his email although he made a point to take his computer with him since he was supposed to work after court. I'm so tired of all of this.

I am really glad OH said that to you....I lived with that kind of abnormal treatment for so long that I do forget how awful it is.

Go ahead and set your appt with the lawyer....I wish you could go earlier than July....although if it is early July that your kids go to camp that might just be 10 days or so from now. I really think your situation won't be as dire as you think...you are pregnant and that will work in your favor as far as getting temp support set up and him out of the house if that is what you want.

(((Anne)))
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 06/17/10 12:53 AM
Anne, I don't know where you live, and I'll preface this by saying I'm not a lawyer.

But unless you live in CA, I think that, even if you don't have rock solid proof of adultery, you will still come out ok. You already have proof that he lies to you about where he is...how does that make him a reliable father? What if something happened to you or one of the kids and no one could reach him because he wasn't where he said he was?

He gambles and spends money in strip clubs. Can you document?

Do you have/are you getting documentation for all the other lying, mis-spending of marital funds, etc? You might not need proof of infidelity.

Again, I'm not a lawyer.

But this is going to tear you apart if it goes on much longer. If I were you, I'd make my move now. Is there *anyone* to watch the kids while you see a lawyer?

Also, if/when you do confront, make sure you have the VAR running!

(((Anne)))))
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/17/10 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Go ahead and set your appt with the lawyer....I wish you could go earlier than July....although if it is early July that your kids go to camp that might just be 10 days or so from now. I really think your situation won't be as dire as you think...you are pregnant and that will work in your favor as far as getting temp support set up and him out of the house if that is what you want.

I'm going to schedule the appointment for the first day of the kids' camp. It will be here soon and I'm coping so I'm not worried about the wait. It will help to know what my options are.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/17/10 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
But unless you live in CA, I think that, even if you don't have rock solid proof of adultery, you will still come out ok. You already have proof that he lies to you about where he is...how does that make him a reliable father? What if something happened to you or one of the kids and no one could reach him because he wasn't where he said he was?

No, we are not in CA. I know what I will get for the kids (or a rough idea) but I have no idea what a judge will award me for support. Or for how long.

Originally Posted by OurHouse
He gambles and spends money in strip clubs. Can you document?


I only have the conversations from the VAR which are not admissible in court in my state.

Originally Posted by OurHouse
Do you have/are you getting documentation for all the other lying, mis-spending of marital funds, etc? You might not need proof of infidelity.

Again, the only proof I have is from the VAR. But, I do have a list of friends to subpeona who know about his lying and activities. Of course, they might lie for him.

Originally Posted by OurHouse
But this is going to tear you apart if it goes on much longer. If I were you, I'd make my move now. Is there *anyone* to watch the kids while you see a lawyer? Also, if/when you do confront, make sure you have the VAR running!

I have waited this long so I have no problem waiting a few more weeks. I will make sure to record the confrontation. Good advice!
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 06/20/10 01:19 PM
Any update Anne?
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/20/10 01:39 PM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
Any update Anne?

I keep checking for updates too....assuming no news means she is trying to enjoy the weekend with her father who is visiting.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/20/10 10:13 PM
Sapphire & Smilling - Thanks for checking in. I selected an attorney to go to see. I'm setting the appointment up for the first day the kids are at camp. Maybe I will get more between now and then. My therapist agrees that I should see an attorney before I confront so I know what I'm dealing with. At least I have a deadline now. Thanks again for checking in. I wish I had more to say.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/21/10 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Sapphire & Smilling - Thanks for checking in. I selected an attorney to go to see. I'm setting the appointment up for the first day the kids are at camp. Maybe I will get more between now and then. My therapist agrees that I should see an attorney before I confront so I know what I'm dealing with. At least I have a deadline now. Thanks again for checking in. I wish I had more to say.

How did the weekend go? Did he stick around the entire weekend or manage to 'get away.'?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/21/10 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
How did the weekend go? Did he stick around the entire weekend or manage to 'get away.'?

He stuck around despite the fact that Dirtbag was encouraging him to go out with him anyway. I'm pretty sure he met up with DB and went gambling this morning though (he said he was working).

I have almost all my finacial documents together. I need to type up my journal notes which track his lies as well as the questions I have for the attorney. I want to be ready for my appointment next month.

In the meantime, I will hopefully get more. If not, I feel pretty good about going forward with what I have. Regardless of what happens over the next few weeks, the end is in sight!

Thanks, as always, for checking in. It won't be much longer now.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/21/10 09:22 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
How did the weekend go? Did he stick around the entire weekend or manage to 'get away.'?

In the meantime, I will hopefully get more. If not, I feel pretty good about going forward with what I have. Regardless of what happens over the next few weeks, the end is in sight!

Thanks, as always, for checking in. It won't be much longer now.

Very glad to hear this. You have come so far...

Oh and be sure not to destroy your hand written notes even if you do type it up for your attorney...I believe the handwritten ones will hold more weight with a judge if it came to that.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/22/10 05:29 PM
Thanks SmilingWoman. I don't know if anyone other than me would be able to decipher my handwritten notes. Should I rewrite them and keep a neat copy? My hand writing is pretty horrible.

Someone put a picture of Dirtbag with another woman on a Facebook profile and wrote some things about WH in the status so it's been interesting to hear them go into damage control mode. Just another prank by one of their "friends". The funny thing is that WH is sooo worried I will find out about all of this when I actually already know!

I got Dirtbag's password for his hotmail account. Too bad that the Facebook prank got him all worried and he deleted all of his old messages. But I have access to new messages and maybe he will get more comfortable once the hoopla about the Facebook profile has died down. He certainly is registered for a lot of dating websites! I also found a separate email account and have the password for that too. I'm going to have to start putting together my notes for when I expose to Dirtbag's wife.

Speaking of exposing Dirtbag, do you think I should do it in person, on the phone or via letter sent to her which would require her signature to pick up? Interested to hear how some of you have approached other spouses with what you know.

Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 06/22/10 05:52 PM
Is the separate email account also Dirtbag's?

I think if you keep your handwritten notes and package them together with the typed version, it should be fine.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/22/10 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
Is the separate email account also Dirtbag's?

Yes. Dirtbag also has a Yahoo email but I haven't been successfull in coming up with that password. I was able to get into the Facebook profiles he uses under two separate names but not is real one. He's very busy. So far, WH does not have any separate email accounts that I didn't already know about (which he doesn't use anyway) and he does not IM. I'm not getting a lot on him with the Keylogger but it has been useful in other ways, I guess.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/22/10 07:08 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by OurHouse
Is the separate email account also Dirtbag's?

Yes. Dirtbag also has a Yahoo email but I haven't been successfull in coming up with that password. I was able to get into the Facebook profiles he uses under two separate names but not is real one. He's very busy. So far, WH does not have any separate email accounts that I didn't already know about (which he doesn't use anyway) and he does not IM. I'm not getting a lot on him with the Keylogger but it has been useful in other ways, I guess.

Yes the pieces do tend to pile up.

As far as exposing to DBs wife, I would do it in person. Do you know her? Either way do it in person. I exposed to my cousin's husband in person....met him at a Sonic...made arrangements with him via phone to meet there without telling him who I was until I got there. I had the evidence in hand and he just sat there in shock for about 30 minutes.

Looks like you've got at least another week to gather info...who knows what you might come up with.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/22/10 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
Is the separate email account also Dirtbag's?

I think if you keep your handwritten notes and package them together with the typed version, it should be fine.

I agree just keep your handwrittent notes with the typed ones. Even if your handwriting is bad it gives more credibility if you have the original..
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/22/10 08:07 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
As far as exposing to DBs wife, I would do it in person. Do you know her?

I don't know her well at all. The problem is that there is no way I could contact and then see her without Dirtbag finding out first. He will get really nervous when he finds out I've contacted her and this could mess up the exposure. The Facebook profile prank has made him (and WH) very nervous so I wouldn't want to alert DB to what I know. Dirtbag is a very good liar and has lied his way out of these situations before. I don't want that to happen again. I was leaning towards a letter which would surprise everyone and the proof would be in black and white. I have time to think about it though.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 06/22/10 08:20 PM
I think you have said this before Anne, and it makes perfect sense to me. Worry about your own marriage first. You can always clue in dirtbag's wife later.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/22/10 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
I think you have said this before Anne, and it makes perfect sense to me. Worry about your own marriage first. You can always clue in dirtbag's wife later.

I will deal with it AFTER I deal with my own situation. I just don't want Dirtbag to see it coming.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: I Need Help! - 06/22/10 08:35 PM
Cheers to you Anne!

What class and dignity you are showing! That is grace under fire.

You'll get what you need. Your patience will pay off.

Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/22/10 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by Lexxxy
Cheers to you Anne!

What class and dignity you are showing! That is grace under fire.

You'll get what you need. Your patience will pay off.

Lexxxy, thank you so much! Kind words like that keep me going! I keep telling myself the in is in sight!!!
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/22/10 10:15 PM
I second that you have grace and dignity...

About exposure to DBs wife after you have your own situation under control...I exposed in person because I needed to see for sure that he received the info. I called him up--concealig my caller ID---and said, 'I have some information about your wife that I think you would like to see. I will meet you at Sonic tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. He got out of his car and into mine and I showed him what I had and we talked for about 30 minutes. I did ask him to not bring his wife.

In your situation, by the time you expose, your WH and DB will be on high alert so DB wll probably already be spinning you as a crazed nut job telling lies all over town.

Anyway, if you sent it via mail 'signature required' I suppose it would be just as good. I live in a small town and don't trust those things to go as they are suppose to. Be sure and give your phone number and name because she will probably have questions.
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/22/10 11:22 PM
I worry a little bit, Anne. I would make sure that DB is not a REALLY bad guy. Certain kinds of people will conspire to do really bad things if they feel attacked or assaulted badly enough. Maybe this fear is unfounded, but I feel obligated to mention it. I suppose that as long as your attorney knows what you are doing, and you mention that in your exposure letter, it would make him think twice about any plan for retribution. I don't mean to interfere in plans that will help you, as long as making an enemy who is a DB does not put you in real danger. Have you done a background check on DB for any past episodes of violence or rash behavior?
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/22/10 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by GreenMile
I worry a little bit, Anne. I would make sure that DB is not a REALLY bad guy. Certain kinds of people will conspire to do really bad things if they feel attacked or assaulted badly enough. Maybe this fear is unfounded, but I feel obligated to mention it. I suppose that as long as your attorney knows what you are doing, and you mention that in your exposure letter, it would make him think twice about any plan for retribution. I don't mean to interfere in plans that will help you, as long as making an enemy who is a DB does not put you in real danger. Have you done a background check on DB for any past episodes of violence or rash behavior?

Not to totally discount any possible danger, but I believe DB is a long time friend....childhood I think.
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/22/10 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Originally Posted by GreenMile
I worry a little bit, Anne. I would make sure that DB is not a REALLY bad guy. Certain kinds of people will conspire to do really bad things if they feel attacked or assaulted badly enough. Maybe this fear is unfounded, but I feel obligated to mention it. I suppose that as long as your attorney knows what you are doing, and you mention that in your exposure letter, it would make him think twice about any plan for retribution. I don't mean to interfere in plans that will help you, as long as making an enemy who is a DB does not put you in real danger. Have you done a background check on DB for any past episodes of violence or rash behavior?

Not to totally discount any possible danger, but I believe DB is a long time friend....childhood I think.

I spent four years serving as a deputy district coroner in the 1980's and worked with a lot of detectives. The hubris of some people can lead them in directions that no one would ever expect, not even close friends and associates. Not even relatives. It just gives me pause, that's all. If it is essential, then it is one thing. If it is not essential, then it is another kind of consideration, that's all.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 12:11 AM
Violent reactions are so rare, though. The violent reactions I know about were committed months AFTER the affair by people who had no history of violence. This is not something we typically have to worry about.

Is there a special reason we are worried about this guy? Is he a person with violence in his past?

Frankly, I wouldn't worry about it. If I had a legitimate reason to be concerned, I might carry my pistol for a while.
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 12:36 AM
Its just me, Melody. I think a full background check on that guy would be something worthwhile, just to be able to go into things with eyes open. That's all it is. People who feel entitled are capable of all manner of things, especially professional types who think they are too brilliant to get caught. A little caution beforehand never hurts.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 01:12 AM
Greenmile, what is the purpose of the background check? What is different about this guy that concerns you? I didn't read the whole thread so I am not up to speed.
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 01:36 AM
Nothing, other than the fact that both guys are entitled professional types who have conspired to deceive their spouses, added to the fact that getting busted represents a huge trauma for both of them. People like that can reinforce each others' behaviors. I have no idea how the combination of them will handle joint anger, but it is worth considering. Obviously, they are both deceptive, willing to go to great lengths to hide their behaviors, and both are professionals who are likely privy to methods of harming their foes that are probably quite sophisticated. Put two people together like that, and they might consider behaviors that neither alone might even consider. Intense anger and a threat to a sense of entitlement is a volatile thing. It would be good to know them both extremely well in that regard. It is merely a caution, and if it is not worth considering, then that is great. As long as Anne knows with certainty that it is not a worry with those two, then this can be disregarded.. Her attorney should certainly be aware of her entire plan, though, and the exposure of them both should be something that he is aware of in writing.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 01:43 AM
Gotcha! I would't worry about it. We know of 2 cases of violence and a background check wouldn't have revealed anything that would indicate future violence. Its not something an attorney needs to be concerned about either.

Folks here are more in danger of an ongoing affair than violence.

Truly, don't worry, GM. Exposures are very common place and they are not dangerous. We have done hundreds of these.
Posted By: KaylaAndy Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 01:47 AM
GM - are you getting the same vibe about these two guys as I did - that "Criminal Minds" episode I mentioned a few posts back?
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 02:30 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Gotcha! I would't worry about it. We know of 2 cases of violence and a background check wouldn't have revealed anything that would indicate future violence. Its not something an attorney needs to be concerned about either.

Folks here are more in danger of an ongoing affair than violence.

Truly, don't worry, GM. Exposures are very common place and they are not dangerous. We have done hundreds of these.

Excellent, then.
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 02:33 AM
Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
GM - are you getting the same vibe about these two guys as I did - that "Criminal Minds" episode I mentioned a few posts back?
I didn't see that. Sorry. Do you have the link to that?
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 03:20 AM
Originally Posted by GreenMile
Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
GM - are you getting the same vibe about these two guys as I did - that "Criminal Minds" episode I mentioned a few posts back?
I didn't see that. Sorry. Do you have the link to that?

Criminal Minds Season Four---"Soul Mates". I just watched the first few minutes of it on line....I do remember the episode...but not enough to connect the dots to DB and Anne's WH the way KA did....I plan to find time to watch it though.

I do agree with ML that violent reactions are rare...no guarantees of course...I am interested to hear Anne's take on this.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 03:22 AM
Originally Posted by GreenMile
I spent four years serving as a deputy district coroner in the 1980's and worked with a lot of detectives. The hubris of some people can lead them in directions that no one would ever expect, not even close friends and associates. Not even relatives. It just gives me pause, that's all. If it is essential, then it is one thing. If it is not essential, then it is another kind of consideration, that's all.

Cool job GM....

Not to speak FOR Anne....but I would never withhold info from a BS if I had proof. It is just not in me to do so.
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 04:25 AM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Originally Posted by GreenMile
Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
GM - are you getting the same vibe about these two guys as I did - that "Criminal Minds" episode I mentioned a few posts back?
I didn't see that. Sorry. Do you have the link to that?

Criminal Minds Season Four---"Soul Mates". I just watched the first few minutes of it on line....I do remember the episode...but not enough to connect the dots to DB and Anne's WH the way KA did....I plan to find time to watch it though.

I do agree with ML that violent reactions are rare...no guarantees of course...I am interested to hear Anne's take on this.

Don't want to beg trouble, but you just never know about people. Too much TV, I guess, plus that 4 years in forensic pathology way back in the 80's left me with a residual "think dirty" mentality. That was a tough time, with little kids at home and my marriage to DWG already in terrible shape (entirely my fault). Plus, I learned to become so deceitful myself. Just a residual nervousness about such things, I guess. It didn't help to watch "Fargo" on TV last night, either.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 03:05 PM
Hello all! First of all, I thank GreenMile for his concern. One of the things I love about MB is that you always get a different perspective and I always leave here with something new to think about it.

I don't feel there is any danger of DB or WH becoming violent. I honestly feel like DB will be happy once this all comes out. As it looks like my marriage is going to end, it would not surprise me at all if DB followed suit and ended his marriage as well. Then DB and WH can go live happily ever after, gambling and skirt-chasing as much as they like. Who knows? It might be a huge relief for both once this is all out in the open. Then they will be free to live this lifestyle that they have risked everything for.

Yes, it's true that I'm dealing with two sick individuals. But I assure you that I feel confident that my physical safety is not an issue. DB will likely play some of his pranks on me but those will likely be of the high school variety (annoying but not necessarily harmful).

I think life without these two might be very nice.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 03:44 PM
How the heck does your husband keep his job if he's "supposed to be at work" but is out doing whatever, with DB?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 03:46 PM
Originally Posted by OurHouse
How the heck does your husband keep his job if he's "supposed to be at work" but is out doing whatever, with DB?

They are not very busy at WH's work right now. There are times when he does work a lot but now is not one of them. The difference is that he's leading me to believe he's busy when he's really not. It will be interesting to see what happens once things pick up.
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Hello all! First of all, I thank GreenMile for his concern. One of the things I love about MB is that you always get a different perspective and I always leave here with something new to think about it.

I don't feel there is any danger of DB or WH becoming violent. I honestly feel like DB will be happy once this all comes out. As it looks like my marriage is going to end, it would not surprise me at all if DB followed suit and ended his marriage as well. Then DB and WH can go live happily ever after, gambling and skirt-chasing as much as they like. Who knows? It might be a huge relief for both once this is all out in the open. Then they will be free to live this lifestyle that they have risked everything for.

Yes, it's true that I'm dealing with two sick individuals. But I assure you that I feel confident that my physical safety is not an issue. DB will likely play some of his pranks on me but those will likely be of the high school variety (annoying but not necessarily harmful).

I think life without these two might be very nice.

Good to hear!
Posted By: Pepperband Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 06:04 PM
Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
Anne - I understand if you choose to move on from MB.

But here's the thing I hope you get out of your time here.

While there are certain conditions under which Plan A will not work (addiction, sociopathy), the "conditioning" that the betrayed spouse gets out of being on marriage builders includes the following:


  • Determine what you want out of life and out of your marriage - clearly defined
  • Determine what you have to do on your part to become the person who can live/receive that, independent and irrespective of what your wayward spouse does or doesn't do.
  • Become mentally tough. For the time being, you learn to and choose to ignore the elephant in the living room while you put yourself through basic training for your head and heart.
  • Get to it. Take Action. Whether it's weight loss, activity, income/job, domestic support, whatever is needed, you act on it
  • At the appropriate time (You'll know when you're ready), continue these steps with the wayward out of your space (Plan B) in preparation for further measures that may become necessary (divorce).


These are the gifts of Marriage Builders for an individual recovery that may or may not become marital recovery.

For you Anne, you may or may not get the proof that you feel you need to confront him. But if you follow marriage builders for yourself, at some point in the future, you will become mentally tough enough to say proof doesn't matter. "I'm not happy with the sneaky deceitful NATURE of my husband" will be all you need to throw the switch and decide that your husband's character warrants Plan B, where he can choose reformation, which will include final and permanent no contact with Dirtbag, open access to his computer and cell phone and everything that he has in order to preserve his relationship with you. You will be able to look him in the eye and say, "I FEEL deceived - your actions make me feel UNSAFE and it's up to you to prove your innocence by changed actions - I don't have to prove anything to you."

Wouldn't that place be liberating to you in your situation?

You're so close to that already.

I hope you choose to stay and work this kind of a plan.

Kayla, I hope you won't mind, I lifted part of this post and put it on my (revised) CARROT STICK thread.

(End thread jack)
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
As it looks like my marriage is going to end,
I think life without these two might be very nice.

This is the most determined I've heard you in regards to ending the marriage...you are getting stronger every day. As much as it hurts it has really helped you to see the depth and breadth of your WH's deception...even when it doesn't involve OW. Although I am beginning to wonder if 'gambling' isn't their code word for hookers or something. Creepy.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
This is the most determined I've heard you in regards to ending the marriage...you are getting stronger every day. As much as it hurts it has really helped you to see the depth and breadth of your WH's deception...even when it doesn't involve OW. Although I am beginning to wonder if 'gambling' isn't their code word for hookers or something. Creepy.

I know it is more likely than not that my marriage will end. While I haven't quite accepted this, I realize that I am not happy and can not live this way. However, if WH is willing to go to counseling and fulfill my other requirements, I will give him that chance but I think this scenario is very unlikely.

Actually, much of his deception has nothing to do with OW. She's just part of a bigger, darker picture. Gambling is actually gambling. DH has a rewards card for his favorite casino which he registered for online. I hacked into the account and can verify when he uses it. That's not to say that there isn't something more sinister that I don't already know about. Sounds like he's had experience with strippers and in many cases, they are not much different from hookers. Yes...creepy.

Such is my life. But not for much longer.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I know it is more likely than not that my marriage will end. While I haven't quite accepted this, I realize that I am not happy and can not live this way.

Were you happy before you discovered he is a major liar?


Originally Posted by anne505
However, if WH is willing to go to counseling and fulfill my other requirements, I will give him that chance but I think this scenario is very unlikely.

This is pretty much how my situation went too. I knew he did't really want to be divorced...but he also didn't really want to do the work required to save his marriage. That is because the 'work' would have involved a lot of his personal character issues. So I really never even gave him the option of going through the motions. If he had begged and groveled and actually took some ACTION I might have considered it. As the months went on after I kicked him out, I used to have a conversation with myself that went something like,

'Is there ANYTHING he could do to get you to take him back?'

I would go through a huge list of things...and all of them combined were not enough. I just didn't trust him enough to believe he would ever be sincere.

I'm pulling for you. email me at (without any spaces) if you need some one on one venting.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Were you happy before you discovered he is a major liar?

Yes, I really was. I was one of the happiest people and considered myself to be one of the luckiest people around. That is, until I found out what was going on in March. That's probably why it took me so long to accept this new reality. I really didn't see this coming.

Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
This is pretty much how my situation went too. I knew he did't really want to be divorced...but he also didn't really want to do the work required to save his marriage. That is because the 'work' would have involved a lot of his personal character issues. So I really never even gave him the option of going through the motions. If he had begged and groveled and actually took some ACTION I might have considered it. As the months went on after I kicked him out, I used to have a conversation with myself that went something like,

'Is there ANYTHING he could do to get you to take him back?'

I would go through a huge list of things...and all of them combined were not enough. I just didn't trust him enough to believe he would ever be sincere.

I'm afraid this will happen to me too - that he won't really want a divorce but he also won't want to do the work to repair our marriage. As sad as it is, I just don't see him giving up his relationship with DB and that is probably the biggest problem we have, even bigger than OW/ButterFace.

Thanks for your email. I will probably be in touch. You've been terrific and I could use all the advice and support I can get.

I have found out that even if I file on grounds of adultery, our state is still pretty much "no fault". However, it might be helpful with custody and it would certainly make him look bad which make it worthwile. My friend works for a divorce attorney and I'm getting a lot of my questions answered on an unofficial (but free) basis (I plan to see the attorney she works for). The good news about that is that she will give me a consulation for free and will work with me on a payment plan rather than requiring a retainer up front. She has a pretty good track record too so I'm comfortable with using her should it come to that.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 08:18 PM
That's nice of her. It's always good to see lawyers willing to negotiate.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 09:08 PM
Anne, I'm going to edit out my email address now that you've seen it...would you mind to remove it from the quote in your post?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/23/10 11:06 PM
SmilingWoman - Of course, I took it out. Thanks again!
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/24/10 12:05 AM
Originally Posted by anne505
However, if WH is willing to go to counseling and fulfill my other requirements, I will give him that chance but I think this scenario is very unlikely.

This is pretty much how my situation went too. I knew he did't really want to be divorced...but he also didn't really want to do the work required to save his marriage. That is because the 'work' would have involved a lot of his personal character issues. So I really never even gave him the option of going through the motions. If he had begged and groveled and actually took some ACTION I might have considered it. As the months went on after I kicked him out, I used to have a conversation with myself that went something like,

'Is there ANYTHING he could do to get you to take him back?'

I would go through a huge list of things...and all of them combined were not enough. I just didn't trust him enough to believe he would ever be sincere.

I'm pulling for you. email me at (without any spaces) if you need some one on one venting.
[/quote]

This is so painfully familiar to me. I was afraid to face my character issues and take counseling seriously. I guess "afraid" is not as accurate as terrified. Of course, I covered up this cowardice with anger and self-reinforcement. I feel so fortunate that DWG did not give up on me, but it was only because I finally faced myself and committed to work on myself. By all rights, she should have kicked me to the curb...or off a cliff. I hope Anne's WH can have a breakdown like I did and begin work to re-build himself as an actual emotional adult. I am a work in progress and will be for a long time. And there is no just compensation for DWG for the pain I inflicted for so long. I hope that my experience can be an example and maybe some day a source of hope for others like Anne's WH. But he has to start, he has to be desperate, and it has to begin immediately.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/24/10 12:22 AM
Originally Posted by karmasrose
That's nice of her. It's always good to see lawyers willing to negotiate.

I love my attorney. Forgive me if I've already told this story...but he just makes me LOL....To get my half of XWH's 401K I had to initiate a Qualified Domestic Relations Order (QDRO---pronounced Quadro). I got the info from the plan administrator and it looked overwhelmingly complicated to me. The plan administrator assured me that I could do it...she would help me correct the language, lawyers charge 100s of dollars to do it, blah blah blah. It still looked hard to me...so I asked my attorney via email how much he would charge...He said,

>>I would charge $500.00. QDROs need to be approved and signed by the judge and then filed with the court. And invariably the plan administrator (401k administrator) sends them back for corrections and changes - even if they provide you a template like the one they've given you.>>>

Well $500 just jumped out at me...yikes! So I wrote back and said, 'ok, I will try to do it myself.' He immediately answered back and said,

>>You are killing me. And the QDRO will kill you. I'll do it for $250. You don't need to do it yourself.>>>

I literally LOL....and then I told him to go ahead and do it for me. I thanked him for the discount and told him 'you rock.'

Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/24/10 12:25 AM
Originally Posted by GreenMile
This is so painfully familiar to me. I was afraid to face my character issues and take counseling seriously. I guess "afraid" is not as accurate as terrified. Of course, I covered up this cowardice with anger and self-reinforcement. I feel so fortunate that DWG did not give up on me, but it was only because I finally faced myself and committed to work on myself. By all rights, she should have kicked me to the curb...or off a cliff. I hope Anne's WH can have a breakdown like I did and begin work to re-build himself as an actual emotional adult. I am a work in progress and will be for a long time. And there is no just compensation for DWG for the pain I inflicted for so long. I hope that my experience can be an example and maybe some day a source of hope for others like Anne's WH. But he has to start, he has to be desperate, and it has to begin immediately.

GM, I am glad you came to your senses. And I hope Anne's WH does as well.

Exactly what was the turning point for you?

I have seen people make these kinds of changes. I know it is possible. I had a 25 year plus year history with my WXH and I was just done. Oh, and the fact that he slept with my cousin pushed me over the edge.

Sorry to t/j Anne....
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/24/10 01:33 AM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Originally Posted by GreenMile
This is so painfully familiar to me. I was afraid to face my character issues and take counseling seriously. I guess "afraid" is not as accurate as terrified. Of course, I covered up this cowardice with anger and self-reinforcement. I feel so fortunate that DWG did not give up on me, but it was only because I finally faced myself and committed to work on myself. By all rights, she should have kicked me to the curb...or off a cliff. I hope Anne's WH can have a breakdown like I did and begin work to re-build himself as an actual emotional adult. I am a work in progress and will be for a long time. And there is no just compensation for DWG for the pain I inflicted for so long. I hope that my experience can be an example and maybe some day a source of hope for others like Anne's WH. But he has to start, he has to be desperate, and it has to begin immediately.

GM, I am glad you came to your senses. And I hope Anne's WH does as well.

Exactly what was the turning point for you?

I have seen people make these kinds of changes. I know it is possible. I had a 25 year plus year history with my WXH and I was just done. Oh, and the fact that he slept with my cousin pushed me over the edge.

Sorry to t/j Anne....

The turning point was a last and final dumping out of all my secrets and lies and the realization that DWG had actually loved me all along. The pain of remorse and guilt was so great that I literally had an explosive emotional breakdown, could not think or function and had to be admitted to the psych hospital for three days. The whole edifice of my ego came tumbling down, literally collapsed like the twin towers. Strangely, although this was the beginning of real life for me, it was DWG who deserved to break down and end up in the hospital after finding out what I had done to her. I came home fragile, weak, and on anti-depressants, and she ended up having to be careful for me, which she rightfully resents even now. It should have be me taking care of her. It certainly showed who the strong one was. I still could not handle her triggers, which were almost continuous, and her anger, and I would break down. I tried to get off anti-depressants after one year, but I became progressively more depressed for several months whenever she would have some bad days and slam on me for my past. Finally, I had to go back on them. Now I am able to handle the guilt and her AO's and DJ's and be supportive and mature for her, and it is really starting to help her. We are resuming the MB program again. Hopefully in a few more months, I will quit the anti-depressants and see if I can stay off of them. I never dreamed I would develop clinical depression. I had built a huge impenetrable edifice of self-assured confidence and upbeat personality, and that edifice had enabled me to ignore the crumbling foundation under me. I was very successful as a physician, but my personal private life was total mess. All the things that our society teaches boys about "being a man" are entirely the wrong things. Now I am weak, and finally I am learning true strength. Better late than never, I guess. Anyway, this thread is not my story. I was just trying to give some hope to Anne about her WH, if he can somehow have that painful epiphany and flip his character inside-out. There is hope for Anne. It might go a lot easier. I had a lot of years of hiding and a lot to be remorseful and humiliated about, and it was cataclysmic for me. It probably doesn't have to be.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/24/10 02:26 AM
Originally Posted by GreenMile
Anyway, this thread is not my story. I was just trying to give some hope to Anne about her WH, if he can somehow have that painful epiphany and flip his character inside-out. There is hope for Anne. It might go a lot easier. I had a lot of years of hiding and a lot to be remorseful and humiliated about, and it was cataclysmic for me. It probably doesn't have to be.

I think Anne will be ok with it...she gets a lot from all the perspectives given.

GM, I gotta say that you do remind me of the path my WXH took. He climbed the corporate ladder, began to work out and suddenly he was a different person. I have no patience with egotistical men... half the time XH seemed insecure and half the time he seemed full of himself. I think he is very confused and shallow.

He put a lot of weight into image. Early on when we were young, (teenagers, high school classmates) it was all about me....he wanted the pretty girl and his entire self worth seemed to be tied up in having me. I never changed much. I am a 45 year old version of my 15 year old self. I didn't gain a bunch of weight or chop my hair off or become 'old and ugly.' I kept myself up and I still get plenty of attention. That didn't seem to matter to WXH. He hated us getting older and he was obsessed by youth and beauty.

So basically there is no competing with that. And I don't WANT to be with a man who is obsessed with youth and beauty.
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/24/10 03:23 AM
I felt entitled, and I knew absolutely nothing about marital relationships from the get go. My parents relationship was horrible. I never knew anything else. I demanded and neglected and neglected and demanded some more ad nauseum. I met none of DWG's EN's, and she was a strong, stubborn woman who made sure I knew she was unhappy in many ways that just stoked my anger and made me withdraw further and further. Professionally, it wasn't a ladder I climbed. I was a really great pathologist pretty much from the beginning, but not really good at relationships. It kept getting more and more dysfunctional, and I became dependent on prescription drugs which made it literally impossible for me to see or address my problems. So, It was a little different than your WXH but also similar in many ways. Confused. Not shallow, but might as well have been, because my ability to emotionally connect was blocked. The water was deep, but I couldn't get to it. Very strange. I always felt powerful empathy for the underdog, for kids and animals, and always was generous to good causes and people in pain or in trouble. I was very empathetic in that regard and remain so. People thought of me as a good person, but I had NOTHING for my marital relationship and my exceptional and wonderful wife except for anger and rejection. Though I was successful by most superficial standards, I was a total failure as a husband and led a double life behind her back.

Again, I am expounding on this, which is embarrassing, because this thread is not about me. Nothing is really about me anymore. Everything for me now is about my wife and belatedly being for her what I should have been long ago, and helping her to recover.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/24/10 01:36 PM
Originally Posted by GreenMile
Though I was successful by most superficial standards, I was a total failure as a husband and led a double life behind her back.

For me, this sentence describes my WH perfectly. Thanks for sharing your story. It's always good to hear this from a man's point of view.
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/24/10 02:25 PM
Yes, I can see that, Anne. Its a major reason why I am following this thread. I hope that things work out for you and that he can find himself and turn this around. If not, you definitely should get out of this thing without wasting more of your life. If that doesn't happen, nothing but more of the same or worse, awaits you. My best wishes and hopes to you, always.

- GM
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/24/10 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by GreenMile
Yes, I can see that, Anne. Its a major reason why I am following this thread. I hope that things work out for you and that he can find himself and turn this around. If not, you definitely should get out of this thing without wasting more of your life. If that doesn't happen, nothing but more of the same or worse, awaits you. My best wishes and hopes to you, always.

I am meeting with an attorney in July (waiting until the kids are in camp so I don't have to worry about babysitting). Once I confront, my life will change one way or another. The outcome remains to be seen but suffice to say that I am not one of those women who will settle. It appears that I have been doing that for long enough. If Dirtbag and this lifestyle he's been leading behind my back are important enough to risk his family for then he can have it. I'm done.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/24/10 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
I am meeting with an attorney in July (waiting until the kids are in camp so I don't have to worry about babysitting). Once I confront, my life will change one way or another. The outcome remains to be seen but suffice to say that I am not one of those women who will settle. It appears that I have been doing that for long enough. If Dirtbag and this lifestyle he's been leading behind my back are important enough to risk his family for then he can have it. I'm done.

Anything new from the keylogger or VAR?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/24/10 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Anything new from the keylogger or VAR?

No. He's pretty busy at work this week (at least Keylogger verified that for me). I think he and Dirtbag are still pretty rattled by that Facebook prank which showed a picture of DB with a one night stand and mentioned some incriminating things about WH. It's been gone for a few days but I think it has them being more careful, especially where email and the computer are concerned.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/24/10 08:14 PM
Were you able to print out that info before it was removed from FB?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/24/10 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Were you able to print out that info before it was removed from FB?

Yes. It was kind of interesting hearing them talk about how the picture and the comments could be explained. WH told DB that he had thought I had seen the page and he told DB that "My heart f*cking stopped and I thought 'What now?'" I don't know what made him think I saw it but then he was pretty confident that I didn't. I think they are both on high alert right now.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/24/10 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Were you able to print out that info before it was removed from FB?

Yes. It was kind of interesting hearing them talk about how the picture and the comments could be explained. WH told DB that he had thought I had seen the page and he told DB that "My heart f*cking stopped and I thought 'What now?'" I don't know what made him think I saw it but then he was pretty confident that I didn't. I think they are both on high alert right now.

Do you feel like you are watching your life from outside your body? Surreal isn't it?

You are doing great though. So many people come on here who are not able to keep up the snooping as long as they should. They confront too early and lose their advantage.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/24/10 08:39 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Do you feel like you are watching your life from outside your body? Surreal isn't it?

You are doing great though. So many people come on here who are not able to keep up the snooping as long as they should. They confront too early and lose their advantage.

Yes, it doesn't feel like it's real. And sometimes it feels all too real. Good to know that someone out there understands.

Yesterday was interesting. He was working from our local library and called me to see if the boys and I wanted to come meet him for lunch. Now, he works from this library at least once a month and has NEVER had us meet him for lunch. I was wondering if he was doing this to see how I would react and to make sure I don't know anything. Or maybe once the panic from the Facebook prank subsided, he felt a bit of remorse? I'm interested to hear your take on this one.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/24/10 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Do you feel like you are watching your life from outside your body? Surreal isn't it?

You are doing great though. So many people come on here who are not able to keep up the snooping as long as they should. They confront too early and lose their advantage.

Yes, it doesn't feel like it's real. And sometimes it feels all too real. Good to know that someone out there understands.

Yesterday was interesting. He was working from our local library and called me to see if the boys and I wanted to come meet him for lunch. Now, he works from this library at least once a month and has NEVER had us meet him for lunch. I was wondering if he was doing this to see how I would react and to make sure I don't know anything. Or maybe once the panic from the Facebook prank subsided, he felt a bit of remorse? I'm interested to hear your take on this one.

It is possible he is feeling remorse. Also entirely possible he is putting in his 'family time' because he is planning to do something on his own soon. My WXH often did this. He would say go to services with me Sunday morning and then 'out of the blue' go off with his friends Sunday afternoon.

I've noticed he is now doing it to our son. He took off a Friday and took ds to the lake....a week later he took off a weeks vacation and went with the OW to FL. Must suck to be him. (and your WH)
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/24/10 10:52 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
It is possible he is feeling remorse. Also entirely possible he is putting in his 'family time' because he is planning to do something on his own soon. My WXH often did this. He would say go to services with me Sunday morning and then 'out of the blue' go off with his friends Sunday afternoon.

I've noticed he is now doing it to our son. He took off a Friday and took ds to the lake....a week later he took off a weeks vacation and went with the OW to FL. Must suck to be him. (and your WH)

Yes, I never thought of that. We are going to see my mom this weekend so it's my guess that he will want to go out for a big night out with Dirtbag next weekend (over 4th of July). He must be setting me up for that. Maybe they will call OW/ButterFace and have her go out with them. I don't think they will be doing much on email any time soon.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/24/10 11:01 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
It is possible he is feeling remorse. Also entirely possible he is putting in his 'family time' because he is planning to do something on his own soon. My WXH often did this. He would say go to services with me Sunday morning and then 'out of the blue' go off with his friends Sunday afternoon.

I've noticed he is now doing it to our son. He took off a Friday and took ds to the lake....a week later he took off a weeks vacation and went with the OW to FL. Must suck to be him. (and your WH)

Yes, I never thought of that. We are going to see my mom this weekend so it's my guess that he will want to go out for a big night out with Dirtbag next weekend (over 4th of July). He must be setting me up for that. Maybe they will call OW/ButterFace and have her go out with them. I don't think they will be doing much on email any time soon.

Yep. I feel sure he is planning for his weekend...sick games they play...not sure if it is to asuage his guilt or keep you from being suspicious.

Would be the perfect time to hire a PI.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/25/10 02:14 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Yep. I feel sure he is planning for his weekend...sick games they play...not sure if it is to asuage his guilt or keep you from being suspicious.

Probably a little bit of both.

Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Would be the perfect time to hire a PI.

I'll see if I can find out if he's planning something. My thought is that he will go out Friday night (since his last Friday night plans were spoiled by a visit from my father). All is quiet on email so I hope to get something from the VAR.

We're going to see my mom this weekend. She has cancer and is going through chemo. It will be nice to ssee her and take some time away from this madness.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/25/10 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Yep. I feel sure he is planning for his weekend...sick games they play...not sure if it is to asuage his guilt or keep you from being suspicious.

Probably a little bit of both.

Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Would be the perfect time to hire a PI.

I'll see if I can find out if he's planning something. My thought is that he will go out Friday night (since his last Friday night plans were spoiled by a visit from my father). All is quiet on email so I hope to get something from the VAR.

We're going to see my mom this weekend. She has cancer and is going through chemo. It will be nice to ssee her and take some time away from this madness.

(((Anne)))) oh my you have your plate full. 2 young sons, a dd on the way, parent with cancer and a WH! Hang in there.

Btw, my mom is a 6 year survivor of breast cancer. That chemo really wacks a person....I know it is rough.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/25/10 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
(((Anne)))) oh my you have your plate full. 2 young sons, a dd on the way, parent with cancer and a WH! Hang in there.

Btw, my mom is a 6 year survivor of breast cancer. That chemo really wacks a person....I know it is rough.

Thank you SW! This really speaks volumes about WH that he would do this to me at this time. I told him on May 5th that my mother has cancer. He told me he was sorry that day and asked a few questions. In the time since, he has only asked about her twice and that was in passing. He has never asked me how I am doing or if I'm okay (I'm not). He's so wrapped up in his other lifestyle that I don't think he thinks much about me, my mom or what I'm going through right now. This, as much as anything else, tells me it's over.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/25/10 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
(((Anne)))) oh my you have your plate full. 2 young sons, a dd on the way, parent with cancer and a WH! Hang in there.

Btw, my mom is a 6 year survivor of breast cancer. That chemo really wacks a person....I know it is rough.

Thank you SW! This really speaks volumes about WH that he would do this to me at this time. I told him on May 5th that my mother has cancer. He told me he was sorry that day and asked a few questions. In the time since, he has only asked about her twice and that was in passing. He has never asked me how I am doing or if I'm okay (I'm not). He's so wrapped up in his other lifestyle that I don't think he thinks much about me, my mom or what I'm going through right now. This, as much as anything else, tells me it's over.

This reminds me of LLL's story. Her WH started his affair when LLL was away caring for her terminally ill mother.

AND it reminds me of my WXH too....when my mom was diagnosed he was of no comfort to me. He did not come to the hospital and sit with us for the surgery. My dad and I took her home the next day....WH went to work...picked ds (3 at the time) up from the sitters and dropped him off at my mom's house at 10:30 that night so he could go to deer camp. I was in such shock that he didn't cancel his hunting trip....but I didn't complain....I couldn't...I was barely breathing from the terror I felt over my mom having cancer.

It sounds like your WH is much the same....he really makes me ill...I know you will be glad when this is out in the open.
Posted By: RTX Re: I Need Help! - 06/25/10 03:46 PM

I have been reading these forums for almost five years now and have never posted, but the absolute destruction/train wreck that is about to hit Annes husband has prompted me to do so.

There is no doubt in my mind that this man is doing things he should not be doing and that he has one very serious case of entitlement. When Anne confronts with no room for him to spin, total disclosure or else attitude, I believe you will see a man on his knees begging forgiveness. I do not see this as the typical wayward case you see day in and day out here. The total shame and humiliation that is about to come down on him will knock his feelings of entitlement two states over.

Only Anne knows how much she can take, but I believe she can set the bar as high as she wishes and he will follow if she chooses to stick around. And he will dump DB over his family in a heartbeat.

Anne, I am sorry you are dealing with this. It is truly heart breaking. I only post to give you things to consider from another perspective for when the bomb drops. Good luck

Posted By: schtoop Re: I Need Help! - 06/25/10 04:09 PM
I agree 100% with RTX.

That's why I've really been worried about Anne dragging this snooping out so long. It has totally drained her love bank and she's talking about going straight to plan D.

I think her husband has been trying to impress dirt bag and emulate his lifestyle, but in his heart may still want to be the good husband and family man. If the confrontation is done right, there may be a great opportunity to set the bar as high as you want.

It is not a typical wayward case, he doesn't seem to have any emotional attachment to butterface.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: I Need Help! - 06/25/10 04:14 PM
Anne,

I have not posted to you before, I am GM's wife. I just caught up the last few days here and even though he is giving you excellent thoughts I just want to say a couple of things and give you my support. Your WH sounds so much like GM.

I agree with RTX. A world of hurt is coming for your WH. His college, frat boy, bad boy existence should have ended long ago. His life is so normal like this now he probably rarely thinks of it hurting you or the family but is only worried that you will find out and he will have to then behave like a married grown-up. I doubt he ever even thinks about how you would feel and may think there is no way you will ever find out. This was GM for 26 years. I had our children, raised them almost entirely alone (sorry GM you were good when you were paying attention but that was not much). I lost every member but one of my FOO and did all the work for them and took care of them while raising the kids with little concern from GM. I know where you are right now. Take care. GM and everyone else are giving you the best advice and you are doing everything perfectly. Be ready for your WH to crumble when he learns that you know and he sees himself in YOUR eyes for the first time. GM was the most entitled a**h**** I have ever known and he fell totally apart, hospitalized apart. He is now grateful, remorseful and working on us. I hope this is what you see.

Just sending support, I hope this is how this plays out and you then get to decide whether to stay with a repentant and remorseful FWH or leave to make a new life for you and your children. The ball will be in your court (sorry, I am watching Wimbledon right now) smile
Posted By: V_planifolia Re: I Need Help! - 06/25/10 11:48 PM
Originally Posted by DancesWithGoats
Anne,

... and he sees himself in YOUR eyes for the first time.


DWG, this should absolutely be added to any of those threads floating around or started about how to defog a wayward. You have just so very succinctly summed up this experience for me. Thank you.

(Sorry, Anne, mini T/J over!)
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/26/10 12:41 AM
Originally Posted by DancesWithGoats
Anne,

I have not posted to you before, I am GM's wife. I just caught up the last few days here and even though he is giving you excellent thoughts I just want to say a couple of things and give you my support. Your WH sounds so much like GM.

DWG, glad to be able to put husband/wife names together...

Anne, I've been thinking all day about the couple of posts above mine..people seeing hope and encouraging you. I have probably not been very helpful in that area of hoping for Recovery. I don't 'see' your WH the same way they do. I will be curious how he does react just to gauge my own perceptions....

I don't think he will fall apart the way GM did. I totally humiliated my WH and he just acted like it wasn't happening. Kept wearing his wedding band right up until the day the divorce was final. Still hasn't told our hairdresser of 20 years that we are divorced..at this point I'm sure he KNOWS she knows, but he NEVER mentions us being divorced or him living in an apt for a year or having a girlfriend. I will have to say that I went plan D immediately. I never gave him the chance to do anything to save the marriage. Many times during our seperation he would say things that made me know he wanted to reconcile, but I would cut him off. And the night I confronted him with the keylogger evidence he was in shock....he just sat there staring at it trying to comprehend that I had EVERYTHING printed out that he had said to OW on line in the last 6 weeks...I had logs of all the porn he had been looking at. I was very business like that night. One thing I remember him saying is, 'I was thinking maybe if we just moved away from here and had a fresh start....' I know that was his way of saying he would do anything. I didn't want it. The betrayal was too much for me. It wasn't just about adultery...it was about a total lie of a his life with me. I didn't even know what the real truth was about what kind of man he was..I just knew I couldn't get over it and had no interest in trying.

So I guess what the others are saying to you might be true. If you want to reconcile I think there MIGHT be a possibility that he will do what you insist upon to restore the marriage....which is why MB recommends you come up with your list now before you confront in case you/he want to restore.

I couldn't trust that it would be for real. I though had prior experience with him saying he would live life one way and then failing to follow through. Your case might be different.

Hope you are enjoying time with your mom!
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 06/26/10 02:59 AM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Originally Posted by DancesWithGoats
Anne,

I have not posted to you before, I am GM's wife. I just caught up the last few days here and even though he is giving you excellent thoughts I just want to say a couple of things and give you my support. Your WH sounds so much like GM.

DWG, glad to be able to put husband/wife names together...

Anne, I've been thinking all day about the couple of posts above mine..people seeing hope and encouraging you. I have probably not been very helpful in that area of hoping for Recovery. I don't 'see' your WH the same way they do. I will be curious how he does react just to gauge my own perceptions....

I don't think he will fall apart the way GM did. I totally humiliated my WH and he just acted like it wasn't happening. Kept wearing his wedding band right up until the day the divorce was final. Still hasn't told our hairdresser of 20 years that we are divorced..at this point I'm sure he KNOWS she knows, but he NEVER mentions us being divorced or him living in an apt for a year or having a girlfriend. I will have to say that I went plan D immediately. I never gave him the chance to do anything to save the marriage. Many times during our seperation he would say things that made me know he wanted to reconcile, but I would cut him off. And the night I confronted him with the keylogger evidence he was in shock....he just sat there staring at it trying to comprehend that I had EVERYTHING printed out that he had said to OW on line in the last 6 weeks...I had logs of all the porn he had been looking at. I was very business like that night. One thing I remember him saying is, 'I was thinking maybe if we just moved away from here and had a fresh start....' I know that was his way of saying he would do anything. I didn't want it. The betrayal was too much for me. It wasn't just about adultery...it was about a total lie of a his life with me. I didn't even know what the real truth was about what kind of man he was..I just knew I couldn't get over it and had no interest in trying.

So I guess what the others are saying to you might be true. If you want to reconcile I think there MIGHT be a possibility that he will do what you insist upon to restore the marriage....which is why MB recommends you come up with your list now before you confront in case you/he want to restore.

I couldn't trust that it would be for real. I though had prior experience with him saying he would live life one way and then failing to follow through. Your case might be different.

Hope you are enjoying time with your mom!

I think his suggestion of a "geographic solution" to the problem is pretty clear evidence that he didn't ever really get it. That seems to indicate a desire to turn back the clock but not to really change himself, and seems to indicate a lack of remorse or guilt. He wanted to just wipe the slate clean and start over. Its the "Etch-a-Sketch" concept, the idea of a child. I think you did the right thing.

- GM
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/26/10 03:20 AM
Originally Posted by GreenMile
I think his suggestion of a "geographic solution" to the problem is pretty clear evidence that he didn't ever really get it. That seems to indicate a desire to turn back the clock but not to really change himself, and seems to indicate a lack of remorse or guilt. He wanted to just wipe the slate clean and start over. Its the "Etch-a-Sketch" concept, the idea of a child. I think you did the right thing.

- GM

Funny you see it that way. Points to the way I 'know' WXH and how his twisted mind works. It was a sincere plea....I don't know what all he would have offered if I had 'bit' on it.....but to me no matter what he had to say it was too little too late.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/28/10 12:37 AM
Originally Posted by schtoop
It is not a typical wayward case, he doesn't seem to have any emotional attachment to butterface.

No, the problem really isn't ButterFace. It's Dirtbag. And I really don't think that WH will give up his friendship with Dirtbag. However, if he is willing to do that, there is hope for our marriage.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/28/10 12:40 AM
Originally Posted by DancesWithGoats
Be ready for your WH to crumble when he learns that you know and he sees himself in YOUR eyes for the first time. GM was the most entitled a**h**** I have ever known and he fell totally apart, hospitalized apart. He is now grateful, remorseful and working on us. I hope this is what you see.

Just sending support, I hope this is how this plays out and you then get to decide whether to stay with a repentant and remorseful FWH or leave to make a new life for you and your children. The ball will be in your court (sorry, I am watching Wimbledon right now) smile

DWG, thank you for your insight. I come here so I can gain perspective from the experience of others. I do hope and pray that you are right.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/28/10 12:47 AM
SmilingWoman - Thank you for all you said. I feel like you truly understand what I am dealing with. That's not to say I've lost all hope. I am just being realistic and handling this all in the way that will benefit me the most.

He's planning a big night out on Friday. Maybe I will get the last piece of the puzzle. Either way, the meeting with the attorney will likely take place on July 12. Just two more weeks! No matter what I have, I will confront after I have met with her and know more about what I am dealing with on that end of things.

Thanks again for your advice and insight. You've really helped me through all of this. It won't be much longer now...
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/28/10 11:26 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
SmilingWoman - Thank you for all you said. I feel like you truly understand what I am dealing with. That's not to say I've lost all hope. I am just being realistic and handling this all in the way that will benefit me the most.

He's planning a big night out on Friday. Maybe I will get the last piece of the puzzle. Either way, the meeting with the attorney will likely take place on July 12. Just two more weeks! No matter what I have, I will confront after I have met with her and know more about what I am dealing with on that end of things.

Thanks again for your advice and insight. You've really helped me through all of this. It won't be much longer now...

I am soooooo hoping for some good intel for you this week. I will never forget the second morning I read WXH's IM chats with OW (from the night before as I sat there in the living room with him) he said something along the lines he would like to be with her and do all those things they've already done. Talk about punch to the gut. But it was EXACTLY what I needed to know the truth. I'm sorry it has taken you longer to get the full picture....

Hope you had a good day. How is your pregnancy coming along?
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/28/10 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by schtoop
It is not a typical wayward case, he doesn't seem to have any emotional attachment to butterface.

No, the problem really isn't ButterFace. It's Dirtbag. And I really don't think that WH will give up his friendship with Dirtbag. However, if he is willing to do that, there is hope for our marriage.

I agree BF isn't the biggest problem....I do want to say that Dirtbag is also just a big symptom of something in your WHs mind that has gone wacked. Entitlement, frat boy mentality, perhaps even amoral....I don't know. He isn't 'right'. Not sure how he would go about fixing himself.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/29/10 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I am soooooo hoping for some good intel for you this week. I will never forget the second morning I read WXH's IM chats with OW (from the night before as I sat there in the living room with him) he said something along the lines he would like to be with her and do all those things they've already done. Talk about punch to the gut. But it was EXACTLY what I needed to know the truth. I'm sorry it has taken you longer to get the full picture....

Hope you had a good day. How is your pregnancy coming along?

Yes, me too. But I do realize that I may need to proceed with out the smoking gun I've been waiting for. Once I have met with the attorney and know better what my options are, I feel I will have the confidence to do so. I may not get the full picture and that will just have to be okay. It is time for this to be over.

I know what you mean about a punch to the gut. For me, it was the joke about my baby's ultrasound pictures. I'm not sure anything I have yet to her would hurt as badly as that did. At least I hope not.

Thanks for asking about me. The pregnancy is going well. In spite of all the nastiness in my life, I am thrilled that I am having a girl! I know having a baby isn't going to be easy under these circumstances but I realize how lucky and blessed I am.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/29/10 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I agree BF isn't the biggest problem....I do want to say that Dirtbag is also just a big symptom of something in your WHs mind that has gone wacked. Entitlement, frat boy mentality, perhaps even amoral....I don't know. He isn't 'right'. Not sure how he would go about fixing himself.

I see what you mean. DB is just a bigger symptom than BF is. I have no idea what is going on in WH's sick mind. My therapist is convinced that he is going to be blown away once he finds out that I know. I think he figures if I were to find out, I would fly off the handle right away as opposed to keeping it to myself as I've been doing. This is what happens with his friends when they get caught. The wives find out some damaging information and confront immediately and in an angry manner (two of his friends were slapped during their confrontations). Then the guys lie their way out of it. I think WH figures if he gets caught that things would play out much like that. As good as it might feel to slap him, I'm not going to end up a cliche like these other women.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/29/10 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
[quote=anne505]I know what you mean about a punch to the gut. For me, it was the joke about my baby's ultrasound pictures. I'm not sure anything I have yet to her would hurt as badly as that did. At least I hope not.

Yes I could tell that really hurt you. He had appeared so happy and thrilled about the baby...and about it being a girl...and then to turn and use it in some sick wayward joke.

Originally Posted by anne505
Thanks for asking about me. The pregnancy is going well. In spite of all the nastiness in my life, I am thrilled that I am having a girl! I know having a baby isn't going to be easy under these circumstances but I realize how lucky and blessed I am.

Sometimes I think children help us to endure things. I know that a lot of the time I keep on moving forward for my son's sake...and wow..to have a precious new baby to love on and share with her brothers....wow. Yes you are blessed.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 06/29/10 05:13 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
[quote=SmilingWoman] This is what happens with his friends when they get caught. The wives find out some damaging information and confront immediately and in an angry manner (two of his friends were slapped during their confrontations). Then the guys lie their way out of it. I think WH figures if he gets caught that things would play out much like that. As good as it might feel to slap him, I'm not going to end up a cliche like these other women.

I agree it is going to blow him away....he doesn't figure you to be as smart and controlled as you've proved yourself to be the last several months.

Btw, does he know you see a therapist? Does he ask/wonder why?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/29/10 05:46 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Originally Posted by anne505
[quote=anne505]I know what you mean about a punch to the gut. For me, it was the joke about my baby's ultrasound pictures. I'm not sure anything I have yet to her would hurt as badly as that did. At least I hope not.

Yes I could tell that really hurt you. He had appeared so happy and thrilled about the baby...and about it being a girl...and then to turn and use it in some sick wayward joke.

That was a turning point for me. I'm not sure if I can ever forgive him for that. Whether or not he even wants my forgiveness remains to be seen. But I don't know if I will ever be able to get over that.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 06/29/10 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I agree it is going to blow him away....he doesn't figure you to be as smart and controlled as you've proved yourself to be the last several months.

Btw, does he know you see a therapist? Does he ask/wonder why?

I don't know either other than it's what I felt I needed to do in order to get through this. It's good that he will now have to wonder how long I've known and what exactly I know.

I think he knows I see someone. I believe he saw the insurance statement on there that said "psychotherapy". He's a huge ostrich about things and would never say anything to me unless I brought it up first. He's really good at sticking his head in the sand and pretending everything is okay.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 01:09 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I agree it is going to blow him away....he doesn't figure you to be as smart and controlled as you've proved yourself to be the last several months.

Btw, does he know you see a therapist? Does he ask/wonder why?

I don't know either other than it's what I felt I needed to do in order to get through this. It's good that he will now have to wonder how long I've known and what exactly I know.

I think he knows I see someone. I believe he saw the insurance statement on there that said "psychotherapy". He's a huge ostrich about things and would never say anything to me unless I brought it up first. He's really good at sticking his head in the sand and pretending everything is okay.

Anything new Anne? Just thinking about you this morning and hoping you are ok.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Anything new Anne? Just thinking about you this morning and hoping you are ok.

Hi, thanks for asking. Just as confused as ever. He went gambling again with Dirtbag yesterday and didn't tell me. They talked in his car and DB asked about a co-worker from WH's past (over 10 years ago). DB said, "She was wild, wasn't she? Didn't she finger herself and have you smell it?" WH said yes and then talked about how he was "this close" and how she had him grab her hips and it was so hot but he didn't have sex with her. Then DB was talking about the cheating and how another friend said it's in their genes but DB said to WH "But you don't cheat." Then he said something about how WH doesn't want to do that to the kids but then made the point that he didn't cheat on me before we had kids to which WH said "That's true." I don't know what's going on. I don't think he knows I have the VAR in the car because I don't think he would have mentioned that thing with the co-worker.

Sorry to ramble but I'm just trying to make sense of all of this. Possibly WH thinks that as long as he doesn't have intercourse with someone else then it's not cheating (I've suspected this for awhile now).

Anyway, thanks for listening to my messed up post. I'm meeting with the lawyer on July 12.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Anyway, thanks for listening to my messed up post. I'm meeting with the lawyer on July 12.


And I can't wait either!!! Lets finish this shall we?? laugh
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
And I can't wait either!!! Lets finish this shall we?? laugh

Soon!
Posted By: YEG Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 06:03 PM
Quote
Anyway, thanks for listening to my messed up post. I'm meeting with the lawyer on July 12.

Be aware that a lawyer will complicate Plan A attempts. Nothing wrong with seeing one but dont file. Do your Plan A then file to enter PB.

You should know your rights. Nothing wrong with that. I just wish I hadnt had filed Right Away. Now I have a artificial timeline over my head.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Be aware that a lawyer will complicate Plan A attempts. Nothing wrong with seeing one but dont file. Do your Plan A then file to enter PB.

You should know your rights. Nothing wrong with that. I just wish I hadnt had filed Right Away. Now I have a artificial timeline over my head.

Thanks for the advice. I don't know what I'm going to do but I feel it's important to see an attorney before I confront. The meeting with her is a consultation only so that I know what my options are before I talk to him. While I may file for D, I will not do so until I have confronted him and see where I think this is all headed.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 06:39 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Anything new Anne? Just thinking about you this morning and hoping you are ok.

Hi, thanks for asking. Just as confused as ever. He went gambling again with Dirtbag yesterday and didn't tell me. They talked in his car and DB asked about a co-worker from WH's past (over 10 years ago). DB said, "She was wild, wasn't she? Didn't she finger herself and have you smell it?" WH said yes and then talked about how he was "this close" and how she had him grab her hips and it was so hot but he didn't have sex with her. Then DB was talking about the cheating and how another friend said it's in their genes but DB said to WH "But you don't cheat." Then he said something about how WH doesn't want to do that to the kids but then made the point that he didn't cheat on me before we had kids to which WH said "That's true." I don't know what's going on. I don't think he knows I have the VAR in the car because I don't think he would have mentioned that thing with the co-worker.

Sorry to ramble but I'm just trying to make sense of all of this. Possibly WH thinks that as long as he doesn't have intercourse with someone else then it's not cheating (I've suspected this for awhile now).

Anyway, thanks for listening to my messed up post. I'm meeting with the lawyer on July 12.

I think you have him perfectly pegged Anne. There is NO WAY he was discussing the co-worker from over 10 years ago knowing you are listening....I'm not clear though...was that before your marriage to him? Your post early in the thread indicate you've been married 10 years but together for 19...so even if you were not married to him during that incident you were 'with' him right? Anyway, no way he would let you hear that conversation. If he found the VAR he would just stop talking when in the car. He certainly wouldn't involve DB in a cover-up....WAY too risky with that umm...dirtbag! smile

And yes I believe like you do that your WH doesn't think it is cheating if he doesn't have intercourse....


I cannot wait for JULY 12th!!!!!
Posted By: YEG Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 06:41 PM
Quote
Thanks for the advice. I don't know what I'm going to do but I feel it's important to see an attorney before I confront. The meeting with her is a consultation only so that I know what my options are before I talk to him. While I may file for D, I will not do so until I have confronted him and see where I think this is all headed.

Your doing the right thing by talking to a lawyer. He can walk you through the process. Just be aware that all the lawyer is going to care about is getting you divorced with you getting the best settlement he can for you. He wont be interested and honestly will get quickly frustrated if you are trying to recover your marriage at the same time he is under retainer to end it.

Just before you drop that $$$ for the retainer ask to see the retainer paperwork. A certain amount of the retainer is non refundable. Mine was 25%. So of the 5500$ I dropped on it $1375 is non refundable. Thats alot of green. Thats almost 8 sessions with the Harleys.

Retainers go away quickly too. My lawyer bills 150 and hour. THey bill to 10 minute increments. If she looks at a paper thats 25$. Takes a call from me 25$. It adds up QUICKLY.

Once again im not trying to deter you from finding your legal rights out. Thats a good thing.

BTW I wish I had waited 2 weeks after I found out. I was in no condition to take care of myself at that point much less sign papers to end my marriage.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 06:42 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Quote
Anyway, thanks for listening to my messed up post. I'm meeting with the lawyer on July 12.

Be aware that a lawyer will complicate Plan A attempts. Nothing wrong with seeing one but dont file. Do your Plan A then file to enter PB.

You should know your rights. Nothing wrong with that. I just wish I hadnt had filed Right Away. Now I have a artificial timeline over my head.

YEG, I don't know if you have read Anne's entire thread, but she is not sure if she WANTS to plan A her WH. And she is a SAHM of two boys with a baby on the way. She is dependent on her WH for money...she definitely needs to consult an attorney to know what her options are.

As for you YEG, I think you can drag your divorce out if you choose. The filing hasn't changed that. In fact, I believe Anne will have to file to get her husband out of the house if she so chooses to do that.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Your doing the right thing by talking to a lawyer. He can walk you through the process. Just be aware that all the lawyer is going to care about is getting you divorced with you getting the best settlement he can for you. He wont be interested and honestly will get quickly frustrated if you are trying to recover your marriage at the same time he is under retainer to end it.

Honestly YEG, I do know that your attorney is frustrated with you. ( hey aren't we all frustrated with you. hee hee) But the fact is not ALL attorneys are like you are describing. Some are there to do what you ask them to do. If you want divorced quickly, they will work toward that. If you want to drag it out....they will do that. You just have to tell them what you want.

Originally Posted by YEG
Just before you drop that $$$ for the retainer ask to see the retainer paperwork. A certain amount of the retainer is non refundable. Mine was 25%. So of the 5500$ I dropped on it $1375 is non refundable. Thats alot of green. Thats almost 8 sessions with the Harleys.

I about choked when I saw the amount of your retainer. I haven't spent that much TOTAL on a very messy divorce with a very uncooperative husband (XH now). My attorney asked for $500 to start the process. And he is a very excellent attorney. He got me full custody of my son. And also WXH was ordered by the court to pay $1500 of my legal fees.


Originally Posted by YEG
BTW I wish I had waited 2 weeks after I found out. I was in no condition to take care of myself at that point much less sign papers to end my marriage.

Again YEG, Anne has known for months. She has had a lot of time to think things through. Doesn't mean she will divorce him. She did say she was going to wait until after she confronts him before making that decision.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I think you have him perfectly pegged Anne. There is NO WAY he was discussing the co-worker from over 10 years ago knowing you are listening....I'm not clear though...was that before your marriage to him? Your post early in the thread indicate you've been married 10 years but together for 19...so even if you were not married to him during that incident you were 'with' him right? Anyway, no way he would let you hear that conversation. If he found the VAR he would just stop talking when in the car. He certainly wouldn't involve DB in a cover-up....WAY too risky with that umm...dirtbag! smile

And yes I believe like you do that your WH doesn't think it is cheating if he doesn't have intercourse....


I cannot wait for JULY 12th!!!!!

We were either living together or engaged when this happened with the co-worker. I'm not sure exactly when it was but I'm pretty sure it was before our wedding. Regardless of when it happened, we were very much together. The woman he was talking about was at our wedding. Jeez, what a skank. Okay so he didn't have actual sex with her but some nasty stuff went down and he has never told me. I even asked him recently what he does when women hit on him (as in how he handles it). He looked me in the eye and said it's never happened. Okay, a woman fingering herself and having you smell her hand and grab her hips does not count as being hit on? Whatever. He's such a liar, I can't stand it. I wonder how many women's he's "not" cheated on me with.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Whatever. He's such a liar, I can't stand it. I wonder how many women's he's "not" cheated on me with.

(((Anne))) I know how you feel. And I'm glad you've figured out that he can look you dead in the eye and lie. That is part of what did me in with my WH....I knew I could never trust him.

Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
(((Anne))) I know how you feel. And I'm glad you've figured out that he can look you dead in the eye and lie. That is part of what did me in with my WH....I knew I could never trust him.

I shudder to think of what he's done with ButterFace that he doesn't consider to be cheating. He's really taking the high road, isn't he?
Posted By: schtoop Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 07:30 PM
Two things for you, Anne...,

One, I still think your husband is mostly out to impress DB, and that his indiscretions are just a symptom of that. His affair is with DB, not with any one woman. I think you (or one of the other posters) pegged it in that his "boundary" is if it's not intercourse, it's not adultery. Not an acceptable situation by any means, but you know who your true enemy is.

I still think you have a chance to bring his world crashing down with a confrontation and then you could take advantage of it to build a marriage that gives you both fulfillment.

Two, do not mix lawyers, divorce, etc with plans to reconcile. They do not mix. As YEG pointed out, lawyers have no interest in MB's or recovery, they want to follow through on divorce and make their money.

At least mine was up front with me, when I told him I was still hoping for reconciliation, he point-blank told me I wasn't "ripe" yet, and to call him in a couple months when I had made up my mind.

And, some of the MB's principles will actually backfire on you once you go ahead with divorce. A successful divorce is not about emotions or how you part, it is a business deal where you try to get the best settlement (both for money and custody) as possible, whether by agreement or full-on battle. Winning at divorce is often diametrically opposed to trying to reconcile.
Posted By: lovefear Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 07:34 PM
I am in serious need of guidance. My husband and I have been leagally seperated and living apart since Oct 27, 2009. Shortly after the speration he tried to get back together and I was not ready. Things became very ugly dealing with the custody of our children. In Feb. I foundout he was dating a lady from his work. He then asked me to get back together again and I just could not even stand to look at him knowing he was with someone else. I rejected him. Things became even more hostile and ugly in dealing with our children. He moved his GF and her son into our house and introduced them to our children in April. This is against a court order to not introduce a significant other to the children after 6 months. I became very upset and approached him at our house. His GF was there and threaten to call the cops if I did not leave. Well she ended up doing so and I was later arrested. My husband said he needed documentation for court and custody. In May of this year our youngest daughter became ill and was hospitalized for many days. This was the first time my husband and I were able to talk alone with no outside influences. We learned that much that we went through was dictated by other people. We cried and held each other all night and told each other that we love one another. His response is what do I do now? - I have a woman and her son in my house. I told him not my call. It has been 41 days since we started talking again and rebuilding our relationship the problem is that his GF and her son are still in the house and he has not told her anything. He said that he is afraid that WE will not workout and only time will tell. We went to the movies last night as a family and it was such a great feeling. Yet when the night was over he headed back to our house where his GF and son are. It feels so wrong and I get physically sick over it. I tell him he cannot burn the candle at both ends and he agrees and tells me to be patient...it will all work out. WHAT??? US??? I live alone except on the weeks that I have my kids. When they are with their dad I get soooo lonely and depressed. What do I do?
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by schtoop
Two things for you, Anne...,

One, I still think your husband is mostly out to impress DB, and that his indiscretions are just a symptom of that. His affair is with DB, not with any one woman.


This amazes me---how differently some see it compared to how I see it. I see DB and the WH as two peas in a pod. If anyone is trying to impress anyone I think DB tries to impress her WH...DB is the one who goes all the way with no apparent remorse.



Originally Posted by schtoop
Two, do not mix lawyers, divorce, etc with plans to reconcile.

I'm curious how you expect to know if you can reconcile before you even confront? She HAS to protect herself legally. She MUST know what her options are legally. She is pregnant, a SAHM and has two other young sons.

Originally Posted by schtoop
And, some of the MB's principles will actually backfire on you once you go ahead with divorce. A successful divorce is not about emotions or how you part, it is a business deal where you try to get the best settlement (both for money and custody) as possible, whether by agreement or full-on battle. Winning at divorce is often diametrically opposed to trying to reconcile.

How would a person attempt to win at divorce while attempting to reconcile..?? I think Anne hasn't made up her mind what she wants to do about the marriage. Naturally, it seems she will go one way or the other. She is hardly a scatterbrained, knee jerk reactive BW.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 07:49 PM
Originally Posted by lovefear
I am in serious need of guidance. My husband and I have been leagally seperated and living apart since Oct 27, 2009. Shortly after the speration he tried to get back together and I was not ready. Things became very ugly dealing with the custody of our children. In Feb. I foundout he was dating a lady from his work. He then asked me to get back together again and I just could not even stand to look at him knowing he was with someone else. I rejected him. Things became even more hostile and ugly in dealing with our children. He moved his GF and her son into our house and introduced them to our children in April. This is against a court order to not introduce a significant other to the children after 6 months. I became very upset and approached him at our house. His GF was there and threaten to call the cops if I did not leave. Well she ended up doing so and I was later arrested. My husband said he needed documentation for court and custody. In May of this year our youngest daughter became ill and was hospitalized for many days. This was the first time my husband and I were able to talk alone with no outside influences. We learned that much that we went through was dictated by other people. We cried and held each other all night and told each other that we love one another. His response is what do I do now? - I have a woman and her son in my house. I told him not my call. It has been 41 days since we started talking again and rebuilding our relationship the problem is that his GF and her son are still in the house and he has not told her anything. He said that he is afraid that WE will not workout and only time will tell. We went to the movies last night as a family and it was such a great feeling. Yet when the night was over he headed back to our house where his GF and son are. It feels so wrong and I get physically sick over it. I tell him he cannot burn the candle at both ends and he agrees and tells me to be patient...it will all work out. WHAT??? US??? I live alone except on the weeks that I have my kids. When they are with their dad I get soooo lonely and depressed. What do I do?

Love/Fear can you start your own thread? It will be easier for others to help you if you have your own thread. Just copy and paste your first post to a new thread with your own title.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 08:42 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
How would a person attempt to win at divorce while attempting to reconcile..?? I think Anne hasn't made up her mind what she wants to do about the marriage. Naturally, it seems she will go one way or the other. She is hardly a scatterbrained, knee jerk reactive BW.

You're right, I don't know what I want to do about this marriage and I won't know until I have confronted him. I do know that I need to know my options before I do that. There is no way I could be accused of being a knee jerk reactive BW. If anything, most people on here think that I am not reactive enough!
Posted By: V_planifolia Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 08:59 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
If anything, most people on here think that I am not reactive enough!


You should extricate that thought from your brain, my dear. smile I think we can all appreciate the risk of a false recovery, and I suspect most are waiting to chime in if they feel they are needed after you either find out more or decide on a plan of action.

I know you have identified with SmilingWoman's situation, but I would have to echo schtoop's perspective. I think it was schtoop who predicted some time ago that this drawn-out approach will rapidly drain your LB$, and the tone of your posts suggests that is happening.

You certainly don't seem the reactive type, but I just want to give my opinion that, as low as your LB$ has gotten, as similar as this may seem to SmilingWoman's sitch, remember that with your WH, somewhere in there may be a wonderful man - and marriage - that can yet be rescued.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 09:05 PM
Originally Posted by Mrs_Vanilla
remember that with your WH, somewhere in there may be a wonderful man - and marriage - that can yet be rescued.

This is true. I had other issues with my WH besides his adultery. The history of deceit was too long and deep for me to ever get past it. It may not be that way with your WH.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by Mrs_Vanilla
as similar as this may seem to SmilingWoman's sitch, remember that with your WH, somewhere in there may be a wonderful man - and marriage - that can yet be rescued.

Whether or not that is true remains to be seen. The more I find out, the less likely this seems to be. He's just lied to me so many times and about so many different things. His priorities are certainly screwed up. He spends a lot of time talking to Dirtbag, going out with Dirtbag, making plans with Dirtbag not to mention his little outings with ButterFace/OW. He hardly talks to me (and when he does he's usually telling me a lie about something) and the last time we did anything together without the kids was February. He has no interest in me at all.
Posted By: V_planifolia Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 10:12 PM
Do you want to continue at all @ this point? Recovery is even harder than this, and typically the BS has to pull a lot of weight. It is one thing if you are done; it is another, however, to still entertain the idea of reconciling.

There are many here on this board who have endured years of what you describe, or years of various other assaults from WSs. I've posted SadSoSad/MadSoMad/DancesWithGoats's thread below. She is just one example of a situation that seemed insurmountable, and yet her (F)WH appears to be turning things around.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=155413&Number=2191290#Post2191290

Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by Mrs_Vanilla
Do you want to continue at all @ this point? Recovery is even harder than this, and typically the BS has to pull a lot of weight. It is one thing if you are done; it is another, however, to still entertain the idea of reconciling.

There are many here on this board who have endured years of what you describe, or years of various other assaults from WSs. I've posted SadSoSad/MadSoMad/DancesWithGoats's thread below. She is just one example of a situation that seemed insurmountable, and yet her (F)WH appears to be turning things around.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=155413&Number=2191290#Post2191290

Thanks for sharing that. We'll see what happens once I confront. I'm trying to be realistic and not get my hopes up. Sorry if that comes across too negative.
Posted By: V_planifolia Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 10:20 PM
One other thread for DancesWithGoats in Recovery.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2396004#Post2396004

I understand about not wanting to get your hopes up. And obviously I have my own bias here, being the WS in my M. I think the chance for transformation is a good thing. smile
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 10:39 PM
I wish you didn't have to wait till you see a lawyer, I wish you can confront him now laugh
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 10:48 PM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
I wish you didn't have to wait till you see a lawyer, I wish you can confront him now laugh

It would be nice to have it over but I've waited this long, I can wait a few more weeks. I just feel that seeing the lawyer first will give me some much needed confidence and will help me to keep a level head once I do confront (information is power). Also, I won't confront immediately after seeing the lawyer. I will talk it over with my therapist at my appointment the next day and give the situation some serious thought first.
Posted By: DancesWithGoats Re: I Need Help! - 07/01/10 11:18 PM
(((((anne)))))

If he falls apart and really works at changing you will still have to decide if it has been too much. For me there was not a single good part in my marriage to pine over or to lose. For me it is all up. That is, if he can maintain. Recovery is very hard but it is helping us, with set backs here and there but GM is remorseful and has committed to me for as much as it takes for as long as it takes. Is it the truth? Truth is something that never entered his mind before, truth to him was whatever he wanted. It takes a while to assess the honesty and commitment. I am not done yet but I think he is honest this time about it. Remember, if you do decide to recover we will help you. If you do not decide to recover we will help you.
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 07/02/10 12:13 AM
Originally Posted by Mrs_Vanilla
Originally Posted by anne505
If anything, most people on here think that I am not reactive enough!


You should extricate that thought from your brain, my dear. smile I think we can all appreciate the risk of a false recovery, and I suspect most are waiting to chime in if they feel they are needed after you either find out more or decide on a plan of action.

I know you have identified with SmilingWoman's situation, but I would have to echo schtoop's perspective. I think it was schtoop who predicted some time ago that this drawn-out approach will rapidly drain your LB$, and the tone of your posts suggests that is happening.

You certainly don't seem the reactive type, but I just want to give my opinion that, as low as your LB$ has gotten, as similar as this may seem to SmilingWoman's sitch, remember that with your WH, somewhere in there may be a wonderful man - and marriage - that can yet be rescued.

Sorry to jump in. I have been following this from the beginning, and Lord knows, I have my own issues and work ahead of me, so I am as far from an expert as anyone can get, but I agree with you, Mrs. Vanilla. None of us knows the WH except for Anne, and there may be other issues afoot that we haven't been privy to. But if love was there once, it can be recovered, and from what little I have read here, he seems more immature and under the thrall of a nasty frat boy-type friend who is a bad influence, than he is a guy who is hopeless or unrecoverable. He doesn't apparently know what marriage really is, as I didn't. The depth of his immaturity, selfishness, and perfidy is obvious but is orders of magnitude less than my own was, but if they loved each other once, then MB principles, assiduously learned and practiced, can completely recover that love, if they want it, and can bring a mature and admirable guy and true husband into the world. Thinking about divorce and consulting a divorce attorney at this point with the finality that seems to show itself in Anne's writings, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. As long as Anne has protected herself, her expanding family, and her share of assets in the event that this guy is irreversibly a truly bad and calculating man, then giving him every opportunity to break down and change himself around makes the most sense to me. There just seems to be a big piece of this puzzle missing. One either wants to recover broken love and restore respect, or recovery has already been written off. And MB is about the former.

I would add, though, that MB can also help a BS recover, even if the marriage is not salvageable. They say that time can heal all wounds. That doesn't mean that a bad scar is not permanent. A scar, though, is very, very tough.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/02/10 03:27 AM
Originally Posted by GreenMile
Thinking about divorce and consulting a divorce attorney at this point with the finality that seems to show itself in Anne's writings, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. As long as Anne has protected herself, her expanding family, and her share of assets in the event that this guy is irreversibly a truly bad and calculating man,

I believe that is why she is consulting a divorce attorney. I don't understand why everyone keeps discouraging her from doing this!


Originally Posted by GreenMile
then giving him every opportunity to break down and change himself around makes the most sense to me.

Well, sure IF that is what Anne wants. Who could fault her for walking away?


[/quote]There just seems to be a big piece of this puzzle missing. One either wants to recover broken love and restore respect, or recovery has already been written off. And MB is about the former.[/quote]

There is a big piece of the puzzle missing....how her WH will react to confrontation. It isn't always so cut and dried GM. I believe Anne is in that questioning phase. She doesn't KNOW what she wants.
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 07/02/10 07:19 AM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Originally Posted by GreenMile
Thinking about divorce and consulting a divorce attorney at this point with the finality that seems to show itself in Anne's writings, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. As long as Anne has protected herself, her expanding family, and her share of assets in the event that this guy is irreversibly a truly bad and calculating man,

I believe that is why she is consulting a divorce attorney. I don't understand why everyone keeps discouraging her from doing this!


Originally Posted by GreenMile
then giving him every opportunity to break down and change himself around makes the most sense to me.

Well, sure IF that is what Anne wants. Who could fault her for walking away?
There just seems to be a big piece of this puzzle missing. One either wants to recover broken love and restore respect, or recovery has already been written off. And MB is about the former.[/quote]

There is a big piece of the puzzle missing....how her WH will react to confrontation. It isn't always so cut and dried GM. I believe Anne is in that questioning phase. She doesn't KNOW what she wants.
[/quote]

That is so true, SW, including the part about the missing piece.

I am sorry, Anne, for having this side conversation on your thread about your plight, but Smiling Woman has a better grasp of this. I suppose I am personalizing it too much, since the person I was for so long was so much worse than your description of your WH. But that guy is gone, and I made a deal with him, that I would forgive him as long as he never showed his face around me or darkened my door ever again. There are echos of him, reverberating progressively a little less and fading away, but he has kept his end of the bargain. The only thing I want in return is to become the best person I can be and the best husband to DancesWithGoats that she could ever imagine, hoping that it will make the painful scars I caused, more and more tolerable over time. But your husband is a different person, and whether he will react that way is very much in question. So, you are right to get all your ducks in a row, so you can handle a divorce in the calmest and most beneficial way possible to yourself and the children. If he is not interested in changing totally, you have to spare yourself the unnecessary agony and wasted years, because it will only get worse. It would definitely be best to move on.

Just one more thing, Anne. From your detailed description, your WH is not necessarily morally bankrupt and irreparably damaged in his values. It could be that he simply has no concept of what marriage is, and has refused to turn over his separate self to a single entity where everything you both do is with the enthusiastic agreement of the other, with no secrets, and complete devotion to meeting the others needs. The separate self has to die. It can't be worshipped like it is in our popular culture, or there is no marriage. He has to give up the separate self. From his current standpoint of "being his own man" and not giving up himself, his actions to him do not seem morally bankrupt. If his concept of self and concept of what a marriage is is jolted into its rightful place by the reality of losing you, and what that would mean to him, his transformation is possible, and he can get the help he needs to figure it out here.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/02/10 03:15 PM
Originally Posted by DancesWithGoats
Remember, if you do decide to recover we will help you. If you do not decide to recover we will help you.

Thank you for saying that. It's good to know I will have support and help no matter what I decide.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/02/10 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Originally Posted by GreenMile
Thinking about divorce and consulting a divorce attorney at this point with the finality that seems to show itself in Anne's writings, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. As long as Anne has protected herself, her expanding family, and her share of assets in the event that this guy is irreversibly a truly bad and calculating man,

I believe that is why she is consulting a divorce attorney. I don't understand why everyone keeps discouraging her from doing this!

Actually, seeing an attorney at this point makes perfect sense to me. As I don't know what my outcome will be, I feel most comfortable confronting him once I know all my options. Knowledge is power.


Originally Posted by GreenMile
then giving him every opportunity to break down and change himself around makes the most sense to me.

Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Well, sure IF that is what Anne wants. Who could fault her for walking away?


He will have the opptornity to break down and change himself around. I just don't have any confidence that he will take it.


[/quote]There just seems to be a big piece of this puzzle missing. One either wants to recover broken love and restore respect, or recovery has already been written off. And MB is about the former.[/quote]

There is a big piece of the puzzle missing....how her WH will react to confrontation. It isn't always so cut and dried GM. I believe Anne is in that questioning phase. She doesn't KNOW what she wants.
[/quote]

Yes, exactly. Since I don't know how he will react, I want to be ready for all possible scenarios. Seeing the attorney will help me to do that.

Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/02/10 03:53 PM
Does anyone know where I can find the post lists good questions to ask for a lie detector test? I remember reading it and it was very good but I can't find it. Thanks.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/05/10 01:38 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Does anyone know where I can find the post lists good questions to ask for a lie detector test? I remember reading it and it was very good but I can't find it. Thanks.

Bumping for you in hopes someone can tell you where to find those questions. I looked but found nothing. I am a terrible searcher though.

How was the weekend? Any developments?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: I Need Help! - 07/05/10 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Does anyone know where I can find the post lists good questions to ask for a lie detector test? I remember reading it and it was very good but I can't find it. Thanks.

Doesn't the company/person administering the test help you compose appropriate/effective questions?

Ask them to help.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/05/10 06:34 PM
@SW - It's been a quiet weekend since he's been with me and the kids all weekend. He even took us shopping for baby stuff. He's going to court with Dirtbag on Thursday (he told me he's going somewhere else on Thursday).

@Pepperband - I'm sure the company can help me with the questions. I just remember someone posting some great questions and I wanted to take a look at them and possibly talk about them with my therapist.

One more week until my meeting with my attorney and then I can proceed. Thanks again for all your support everyone.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/07/10 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
@SW - It's been a quiet weekend since he's been with me and the kids all weekend. He even took us shopping for baby stuff. He's going to court with Dirtbag on Thursday (he told me he's going somewhere else on Thursday).

@Pepperband - I'm sure the company can help me with the questions. I just remember someone posting some great questions and I wanted to take a look at them and possibly talk about them with my therapist.

One more week until my meeting with my attorney and then I can proceed. Thanks again for all your support everyone.

Just checking on you Anne..your thread was getting buried too! Any news?

When you say he is going to court with DB...is it lawyery stuff or is DB in legal trouble? If it is just work related...why wouldn't he tell you? Weird the things he lies about huh?
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/07/10 06:20 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
@SW - It's been a quiet weekend since he's been with me and the kids all weekend. He even took us shopping for baby stuff. He's going to court with Dirtbag on Thursday (he told me he's going somewhere else on Thursday).

Do you see the pattern here? I bet he already knew he was going to be with DB (and lie to you about it) on Thursday...so the shopping trip he took you on was the...appeasement? I don't know what his reasoning on it is...soothe his conscience? Who knows. But he puts his family time in before he runs off to do something he shouldn't be doing or something that he lies to you about.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/07/10 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Do you see the pattern here? I bet he already knew he was going to be with DB (and lie to you about it) on Thursday...so the shopping trip he took you on was the...appeasement? I don't know what his reasoning on it is...soothe his conscience? Who knows. But he puts his family time in before he runs off to do something he shouldn't be doing or something that he lies to you about.

SW - Thank you for checking in. Not too much is new. He is not going to court now but instead taking me and the boys with him to his meeting and then to visit relatives after. My guess is that DB's court date got put off which happens all the time. I think you have a point about the family time before doing something he will lie about.

I am meeting with the attorney on Monday. I really don't know what to expect or how I will feel coming out of it. I will then talk that over with my therapist two days later and then have the big talk with WH once I get my thoughts together and my nerve up. I have not made a decision and won't until I talk with the attorney and the therapist and then see what he has to say. I'm trying to hope for the best but prepare for the worst (thus the meeting with the attorney and therapist before I confront). I will give him a chance to work it out if he wants to but will make it clear to him that he has to do the work.

Very nervous about the upcoming week both about what the attorney will say and how the confrontation will go. I do know that it was a good decision to wait before confronting him. I have worked through a lot on my own and can now deal with him in a more level-headed manner.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/07/10 07:40 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
When you say he is going to court with DB...is it lawyery stuff or is DB in legal trouble? If it is just work related...why wouldn't he tell you? Weird the things he lies about huh?

Almost forgot to answer this question. DB was mugged at gunpoint a few years ago and they have since caught the guy and the case is coming to trial. WH has been advising DB and helping him through the process of being a witness in criminal court. So not business but helping a friend through something like that is certianly something I would not object to. Yes, it is a weird thing to lie about. He did tell me the last time he went downtown to help DB with this case but at the last minute when it had been planned for weeks.
Posted By: GreenMile Re: I Need Help! - 07/07/10 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Do you see the pattern here? I bet he already knew he was going to be with DB (and lie to you about it) on Thursday...so the shopping trip he took you on was the...appeasement? I don't know what his reasoning on it is...soothe his conscience? Who knows. But he puts his family time in before he runs off to do something he shouldn't be doing or something that he lies to you about.

SW - Thank you for checking in. Not too much is new. He is not going to court now but instead taking me and the boys with him to his meeting and then to visit relatives after. My guess is that DB's court date got put off which happens all the time. I think you have a point about the family time before doing something he will lie about.

I am meeting with the attorney on Monday. I really don't know what to expect or how I will feel coming out of it. I will then talk that over with my therapist two days later and then have the big talk with WH once I get my thoughts together and my nerve up. I have not made a decision and won't until I talk with the attorney and the therapist and then see what he has to say. I'm trying to hope for the best but prepare for the worst (thus the meeting with the attorney and therapist before I confront). I will give him a chance to work it out if he wants to but will make it clear to him that he has to do the work.

Very nervous about the upcoming week both about what the attorney will say and how the confrontation will go. I do know that it was a good decision to wait before confronting him. I have worked through a lot on my own and can now deal with him in a more level-headed manner.

It sounds like you have done all the right things. Confidence in your ability to deal with life by yourself and projecting that confidence are what you are going to need. As Markos told me on my thread, be "calm, calm, calm. Oh, by the way, did I say calm?" You will be nervous, but practice in front of a mirror. Good luck, Anne.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/07/10 09:45 PM
@GreenMile - Thanks, your advice is always helpful. I always value your perspective on my situation.

@SW - You were right. I saw emails today that he and DB are making plans to go out next weekend (July 16-18). Can't wait to hear what they have planned. Since DB turned 40 last week and they haven't yet gone out to celebrate, I'm sure it will be big.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/07/10 09:50 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
@GreenMile - Thanks, your advice is always helpful. I always value your perspective on my situation.

@SW - You were right. I saw emails today that he and DB are making plans to go out next weekend (July 16-18). Can't wait to hear what they have planned. Since DB turned 40 last week and they haven't yet gone out to celebrate, I'm sure it will be big.

You will probably already confront by then....be funny though if you asked him to take you somewhere special on the day he has planned.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/07/10 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
You will probably already confront by then....be funny though if you asked him to take you somewhere special on the day he has planned.

Yes, if all goes well, I will have confronted by that point. The only thing I can forsee interferring with a confrontation is if I get worse than expected news from the lawyer and have to come up with a different plan of action. I really don't know what to expect so I'm trying to consider all possibilities.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/07/10 10:01 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
You will probably already confront by then....be funny though if you asked him to take you somewhere special on the day he has planned.

Yes, if all goes well, I will have confronted by that point. The only thing I can forsee interferring with a confrontation is if I get worse than expected news from the lawyer and have to come up with a different plan of action. I really don't know what to expect so I'm trying to consider all possibilities.

Oh good point.....have you been a SAHM for a long time?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/07/10 10:08 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Oh good point.....have you been a SAHM for a long time?

Yes, for 9 years now. No clue what the lawyer will say and I'm pretty scared about it but I can't imagine what could be worse than living this way.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/09/10 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Oh good point.....have you been a SAHM for a long time?

Yes, for 9 years now. No clue what the lawyer will say and I'm pretty scared about it but I can't imagine what could be worse than living this way.

I don't think you have that much to worry about....I think you can get him out of the house and have temporary support until the divorce is final--especially since you are pregnant. Of course that is assuming there is no way to recover your marriage.

Do you have all your paperwork gathered up for attorney? You need tax returns, bank statments, mortgage payoff, a current pay stub of your WH....debt details...Much better to gather that all now and give to your attorney. That way if he needs it you don't have to go on a hunt for all that later if you can't recover the marriage. I had all that ready for my attorney on first visit and he was very impressed. smile Oh, and don't forget all your intel evidence! I had that too. Attorney sat there with his mouth hanging open. smile
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/09/10 06:15 PM
@SW - I'm just really nervous and have no idea what to expect. Trying to stay postive while preparing myself for the worst. I'm not always successful at doing that!

I have everything but the tax returns and I think I can get my hands on those before Monday. Unfortunately, my intel is not overwhelming but I do have my notes documenting what I know so far and will take those.

WH and Dirtbag seem to once again have a comfort level about using email (they were quiet after that Facebook profile with DB's picture but fake name surfaced). I wasn't able to get the VAR in the car today so I will probably miss out on a good conversation on the way home. I can get it back in there tonight and hopefully this won't happen again (WH was supposed to take his car to the shop but ended up not having to so I didn't bother replacing it yesterday, darn it).

Here is a thought...knowing that DB and WH have something fairly big planned for next weekend, I think I might wait until the following week to confront. I hate the idea of confronting and then having him go with DB shortly there after. I don't think anything good would come of that. What do you think?
Posted By: RTX Re: I Need Help! - 07/09/10 07:24 PM

When you do confront Anne, I am assuming that DB is not an option, more of a him or me situation. I sincerely believe that your husband is going to fold. As I read in a previous post on the forums, you will need to be James Bond cool, know exactly what you want and how you want it or else.

As I had mentioned earlier, this is not the typical wayward case you read about here everyday. I think when confronted, he will do whatever is necessary to salavage the situation and make it right. It is up to you how that will happen, if you want it to happen.

It is wise to consult so you know your options, but also consider the conditions of what you will need from your husband to repair this and to protect yourself and your marriage. I might suggest having a spare pair of undershorts handy for him when you do confront. He is going to need them.

Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/09/10 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by RTX
When you do confront Anne, I am assuming that DB is not an option, more of a him or me situation. I sincerely believe that your husband is going to fold. As I read in a previous post on the forums, you will need to be James Bond cool, know exactly what you want and how you want it or else.

As I had mentioned earlier, this is not the typical wayward case you read about here everyday. I think when confronted, he will do whatever is necessary to salavage the situation and make it right. It is up to you how that will happen, if you want it to happen.

It is wise to consult so you know your options, but also consider the conditions of what you will need from your husband to repair this and to protect yourself and your marriage. I might suggest having a spare pair of undershorts handy for him when you do confront. He is going to need them.

Yes this is a him or us situation. However, as we know with waywards, they rarely come around to a rational way of thinking in a timely manner. My concern is that he will be in an angry mode and will insist on going out with DB no matter what I say and God knows what will happen then. DB is not supportive of marriage (even though he claims to love his W and says the cheating is just about sex). He has been encouraging him to cheat and I'm afraid that WH will use our confrontation as an excuse to do things he otherwise might say no to. I'm inclined to let him go out and wait until Monday to talk to him when he's away from DB and not looking foward to his night out with him.

Does any of that make sense? This is so messed up that it's hard to know what makes sense these days. And for what it's worth, I do hope you are right about his reaction.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/09/10 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by RTX
I might suggest having a spare pair of undershorts handy for him when you do confront. He is going to need them.

One would think. My WXH found the GPS in his trunk, took it out and drove to OW's house. I and the PI then drove to her place (in seperate cars) and parked outside her house for hours---trying to force him to come out and face me. He snuck out like a snake in the grass that he is. So I guess that is a version of messing his pants.

Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/09/10 09:02 PM
Originally Posted by RTX
It is wise to consult so you know your options, but also consider the conditions of what you will need from your husband to repair this and to protect yourself and your marriage.

Anne, this is good advice. Do you have your list of conditions you will require to consider staying? You need a written list NOW...not that I would present him with that list at the confrontation...it will be more than he can absorb. But you need it written up now while you can somewhat focus. You won't be able to focus as much after confrontation.

I never considered staying, so I didn't have a list of conditions. I just confronted and told him it was over and for him to make other living arrangements. And I've not been encouraging to you in the area of restoration...so I am glad others are thinking of that.

Originally Posted by anne505
[Yes this is a him or us situation. However, as we know with waywards, they rarely come around to a rational way of thinking in a timely manner. My concern is that he will be in an angry mode and will insist on going out with DB no matter what I say and God knows what will happen then.

I do follow your line of reasoning...but I think whenever you confront you face the possibility of him reacting that way and being defiant at first. If you are going to wait until after he goes out with DB to confront I would SERIOUSLY consider hiring a PI to follow him while he is out. Ask your lawyer on Monday for a good reference and call for a price. Or your lawyer may even be able to arrange it--sometimes PIs work for lawyers and you might have better success that way. I think the shock and awe of video and a PI report will go a long ways toward making your WH understanding you are dead serious about not tolerating this behavior.

Thinking of you as always. (((Anne)))
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/10/10 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Do you have your list of conditions you will require to consider staying? You need a written list NOW...not that I would present him with that list at the confrontation...it will be more than he can absorb. But you need it written up now while you can somewhat focus. You won't be able to focus as much after confrontation.

Good idea. I know what I need in order to work things out but I don't have it written down. I never even thought about doing that. I can take care of that very easily though.

Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I do follow your line of reasoning...but I think whenever you confront you face the possibility of him reacting that way and being defiant at first. If you are going to wait until after he goes out with DB to confront I would SERIOUSLY consider hiring a PI to follow him while he is out. Ask your lawyer on Monday for a good reference and call for a price. Or your lawyer may even be able to arrange it--sometimes PIs work for lawyers and you might have better success that way. I think the shock and awe of video and a PI report will go a long ways toward making your WH understanding you are dead serious about not tolerating this behavior.

Thinking of you as always. (((Anne)))

Good thinking about getting a PI if I choose to wait until after their outing. I will discuss that with the attorney on Monday. As for the timing of the confrontation, I think I will listen to my gut and do it when it feels right. That's the approach I have taken during this ordeal and I feel it has served me well. I'm going to take things one day at a time rather than put deadlines on this. First step, the meeting with the attorney on Monday. Wish me luck!
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/10/10 06:04 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
As for the timing of the confrontation, I think I will listen to my gut and do it when it feels right. That's the approach I have taken during this ordeal and I feel it has served me well. I'm going to take things one day at a time rather than put deadlines on this. First step, the meeting with the attorney on Monday. Wish me luck!

I will be waiting on pins and needles to hear what your attorney says. I know this is hard but you will find strength in taking action like you are doing.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/12/10 10:02 PM
Well Anne? What did the attorney say?
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/13/10 11:50 AM
Another bump.....worried about you Anne!
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: I Need Help! - 07/13/10 01:28 PM
Yes, we wanna know what the lawyer said! laugh
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/13/10 03:10 PM
Sorry for not checking in yesterday. It was a crazy day.

I met with the attorney yesterday. It went much better than I expected. She's very shrewd and I would feel comfortable hiring her if I were to proceed with a D.

My financial outlook is much better than I expected. After talking with her, I am a lot less afraid of what would happen if I were to file. The best news she had for me is that since my mom lives in the state, it doesn't matter how far away she is, I am free to move in with her without his permission. He could try and stop me but probably would not be successful, especially if I make sure he has access to the kids (which I would, I have no intention of keep the kids from him).

Even though I did get some promising news, I am more confused than ever. She shared with me her thougths on when and how to confront him. I am keeping in mind that this advice is coming from a DIVORCE attorney. However, she makes some excellent points which I am going to carefully consider.

She feels it's important that I don't confront right away. From her point of view, I am in the driver's seat and when I confront, I will lose my control as well as my intel sources. She thinks this will put me at a disadvantage in several different ways. One of her main concerns is that my intel isn't rock solid and he could feasibly lie his way out of this.

She also feels that I should be spending my time getting myself set up with a little more security so that when I do confront, I am prepared if he up and leaves (as a D attorney, she's seen this happen many times, of course). You can never know how Waywards will react and she is trying to prepare me for the worst case scenario.

She also expressed her concerns of what a confrontation could do to me during my pregnancy and urged me to weigh the pros and cons about the timing (i.e., before or after baby). She wasn't telling me what to do but sort of playing devil's advocate ina way that few others would be able to do. She brought up some excellent points which I do need to consider before I proceed.

I meet with my therapist tomorrow and she can help me clarify my feelings about all of this. I wasn't prepared for the fact that her answers would lead to so many questions that only I can answer. However, I do feel better after seeing her. I have a lot to think about.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/13/10 03:24 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
My financial outlook is much better than I expected. After talking with her, I am a lot less afraid of what would happen if I were to file. The best news she had for me is that since my mom lives in the state, it doesn't matter how far away she is, I am free to move in with her without his permission. He could try and stop me but probably would not be successful, especially if I make sure he has access to the kids (which I would, I have no intention of keep the kids from him).

I am very glad to hear this. One less thing to worry about.

Originally Posted by anne505
She also expressed her concerns of what a confrontation could do to me during my pregnancy and urged me to weigh the pros and cons about the timing (i.e., before or after baby). She wasn't telling me what to do but sort of playing devil's advocate ina way that few others would be able to do. She brought up some excellent points which I do need to consider before I proceed.


I have been worried about you and the baby too Anne. I know you are more than half way through the pregnancy....There is no way to say what will be more upsetting to you....continuing to live with this knowledge you have that your husband is living a double life...or make a definite move to DO something by way of confrontation.

I've been all about getting more proof and I hope you can do that. Btw, did you ask her about a PI?

It is true though that you have to be the one to decide when enough is enough.

And if you wait until the baby comes....hmmmmm.....I worry he might expose you and the baby to something via SF.
Posted By: stillstanding2 Re: I Need Help! - 07/13/10 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Sorry for not checking in yesterday. It was a crazy day.

I met with the attorney yesterday. It went much better than I expected. She's very shrewd and I would feel comfortable hiring her if I were to proceed with a D.

My financial outlook is much better than I expected. After talking with her, I am a lot less afraid of what would happen if I were to file. The best news she had for me is that since my mom lives in the state, it doesn't matter how far away she is, I am free to move in with her without his permission. He could try and stop me but probably would not be successful, especially if I make sure he has access to the kids (which I would, I have no intention of keep the kids from him).

Even though I did get some promising news, I am more confused than ever. She shared with me her thougths on when and how to confront him. I am keeping in mind that this advice is coming from a DIVORCE attorney. However, she makes some excellent points which I am going to carefully consider.

She feels it's important that I don't confront right away. From her point of view, I am in the driver's seat and when I confront, I will lose my control as well as my intel sources. She thinks this will put me at a disadvantage in several different ways. One of her main concerns is that my intel isn't rock solid and he could feasibly lie his way out of this.

She also feels that I should be spending my time getting myself set up with a little more security so that when I do confront, I am prepared if he up and leaves (as a D attorney, she's seen this happen many times, of course). You can never know how Waywards will react and she is trying to prepare me for the worst case scenario.

She also expressed her concerns of what a confrontation could do to me during my pregnancy and urged me to weigh the pros and cons about the timing (i.e., before or after baby). She wasn't telling me what to do but sort of playing devil's advocate ina way that few others would be able to do. She brought up some excellent points which I do need to consider before I proceed.

I meet with my therapist tomorrow and she can help me clarify my feelings about all of this. I wasn't prepared for the fact that her answers would lead to so many questions that only I can answer. However, I do feel better after seeing her. I have a lot to think about.

I have been reading your thread. I remember the wondering stage. I know how difficult this is for you. I can't even begin to imagine going through this while pregnant. You are doing the right things by not confronting yet. I agree that you should have a worst-case scenario plan now - before everything is out in the open. Once, the cat is out of the bag, you have no idea what will happen. Plan A does include snooping and getting some financial security. It is much easier to do this before you confront. You have much to consider.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/15/10 12:15 AM
Anne, what did your therapist have to say about all this today?

Thinking about you.....hope you are well.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/15/10 01:55 PM
She felt the attorney had some very good advice for me and urged me to think things over before making a decision. That is exactly what I've been doing. I'm still conflicted but working things out. Right now, I am leaning towards taking the attorney's advice and getting myself in a better finaical situation and then confronting. That way, if he surprises me by walking out the door (something I honestly never considered before) then I will be okay. If he were to leave today, things would be very difficult for me and the kids - at least for the short term.

There are many things to consider. One is my stress level. Either way, I will have a lot of stress to deal with. One advantage to waiting is that I know the stress I am dealing with now as opposed to the unknown stress I would deal with after a confrontation.

Something else to consider is the fact that I have the advantage of information which I would lose after I confront. For example, yesterday he went gambling again but told me he was working. He's also trying to plan a golf weekend with his scumbag friends. I know these things because he thinks I have no clue what he's up to. Once he knows that I know, I will have the added stress of not knowing if he's telling me the truth or not. It's stressful to know what he's up to behind my back but it would possibly be more stressful not to know.

On the one hand, the prospect of staying quiet and watch him destroy our marriage is not what I want. On the other hand, neither is being put in a bad finacial situation with three small children and no job. I believe I need to prepare myself for the worst case scenario. I no longer know this man (if I ever did) and have no idea what he will do once the fact that I know is out there in the open. I feel this is a chance I can not take right now. I have to much to risk.

I realize the decision I seem to be coming to is not very "Marriage Builderish". However, I do want to thank everyone here who has helped me along the way. The bottom line is that I need to be selfish right now and put the needs of me and my children before those of WH and our marriage.

That being said, I am going to hang in there, keep snooping and try not to lose hope. Thanks again to all of you who have helped me along this very difficult path.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/15/10 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
There are many things to consider. One is my stress level. Either way, I will have a lot of stress to deal with. One advantage to waiting is that I know the stress I am dealing with now as opposed to the unknown stress I would deal with after a confrontation.


This is a very good point.

Originally Posted by anne505
Something else to consider is the fact that I have the advantage of information which I would lose after I confront. For example, yesterday he went gambling again but told me he was working. He's also trying to plan a golf weekend with his scumbag friends. I know these things because he thinks I have no clue what he's up to. Once he knows that I know, I will have the added stress of not knowing if he's telling me the truth or not. It's stressful to know what he's up to behind my back but it would possibly be more stressful not to know.


True, but realize also that if you confront you have said he will have to provide you with EP that he will BE different. And he will need to be the one to provide tht proof. So once you confront it will never again be like it has been. It will be a new husband or it will be no husband.

Originally Posted by anne505
On the one hand, the prospect of staying quiet and watch him destroy our marriage is not what I want. On the other hand, neither is being put in a bad finacial situation with three small children and no job. I believe I need to prepare myself for the worst case scenario. I no longer know this man (if I ever did) and have no idea what he will do once the fact that I know is out there in the open. I feel this is a chance I can not take right now. I have to much to risk.

I agree. Just keep venting here and hang in there. You have amazing self-restraint...this has been going on since March. He is going to be sooooo freaked out when you do confront....he will be sick wondering and worrying about what all you have silently watched him do over the last 6 months (or more).
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: I Need Help! - 07/15/10 04:53 PM
Anne --

As you prepare to confront him, have you been documenting his activities / lies ?

For example, I assume that the fact he lies to you about going gambling when he is supposedly working is a big issue for your marriage. Do you have the abililty to say "H, I know that on 7/13 you told me you were working when really you and Dirtbag went to Lucky Casino for the day." or "H, I know that on 7/10 you spend the afternoon with Butterface even though you told me you were golfing." ETC.

Since he is an attorney -- I would try to present some of those facts in such a way that he cannot try to gaslight you. I suspect that he would try to say that he never told you he was working or that he never said butterface wasn't there etc. He'll make it all NO BIG DEAL, he never lied, etc etc.

I would have a diary or some type of reference material ready to go.

Anne -- you've got guts! So much grace under pressure.
I really admire your ability to silently watch -- because I know it would find it really difficult not to explode at him with the details you have.




Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/15/10 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by Lexxxy
Anne --

As you prepare to confront him, have you been documenting his activities / lies ?

For example, I assume that the fact he lies to you about going gambling when he is supposedly working is a big issue for your marriage. Do you have the abililty to say "H, I know that on 7/13 you told me you were working when really you and Dirtbag went to Lucky Casino for the day." or "H, I know that on 7/10 you spend the afternoon with Butterface even though you told me you were golfing." ETC.

Since he is an attorney -- I would try to present some of those facts in such a way that he cannot try to gaslight you. I suspect that he would try to say that he never told you he was working or that he never said butterface wasn't there etc. He'll make it all NO BIG DEAL, he never lied, etc etc.

I would have a diary or some type of reference material ready to go.

Anne -- you've got guts! So much grace under pressure.
I really admire your ability to silently watch -- because I know it would find it really difficult not to explode at him with the details you have.

Yes, I document everything! Thanks for your words of support. This is not an easy situation but I feel I am handling it in the best way possible for me and my children. You're right, though...not exploding at him sometimes takes every ounce of strength I have! But in the long run, the wait will serve me well. I will be set up and in a position to walk out the door (or kick him out) if he refuses to make the necessary changes. Besides, this way, he gets the fun of midnight feedings. Why cut him loose now only to let him go out and party every night with DB while I'm at home taking care of a baby 24/7?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/15/10 06:41 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
So once you confront it will never again be like it has been. It will be a new husband or it will be no husband.

That is a very good point...new husband or no husband. Since I have no idea which one will emerge after confrontation, I am making the choice to finacially prepare myself for either scenario. I think this will serve me well no matter what the outcome.

Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Just keep venting here and hang in there. You have amazing self-restraint...this has been going on since March. He is going to be sooooo freaked out when you do confront....he will be sick wondering and worrying about what all you have silently watched him do over the last 6 months (or more).

Thanks for listening to me vent. It really does help me to get through this and make sense of all the unwanted ugliness in my life. I think he will be freaked out which is why I am so unsure of his reaction. I no longer know this man and can not predict how he will react to the truth coming out.

He wants to take me and the boys to a water park in the upcoming week or so. He is also planning a golf trip with his scumbag buddies. My guess is that he thinks the water park trip will make it impossible for me to say no to his little golf trip. He's become so calculating. I don't know when this happened or if he was always like this and I just didn't know it. That's okay because while he's busy making his plans, I'm busy making mine.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/15/10 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
[quote=SmilingWoman]

He wants to take me and the boys to a water park in the upcoming week or so. He is also planning a golf trip with his scumbag buddies. My guess is that he thinks the water park trip will make it impossible for me to say no to his little golf trip. He's become so calculating. I don't know when this happened or if he was always like this and I just didn't know it. That's okay because while he's busy making his plans, I'm busy making mine.

Yes he is calculating.....and chances are great he has always been this way...you just never noticed because you weren't assigning bad motives to him. Now that you have PROOF of his patterns, they stand out like neon signs.
Posted By: stillstanding2 Re: I Need Help! - 07/15/10 07:46 PM
I used to keep a journal and I would document what time my ex came home at night and what he said he was doing. I went through his pockets and would find receipts. I reconciled all receipts against my journal notes.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/15/10 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Yes he is calculating.....and chances are great he has always been this way...you just never noticed because you weren't assigning bad motives to him. Now that you have PROOF of his patterns, they stand out like neon signs.

Very true. And now I have more time to find out just how far this goes. Information is power and I get more every day.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/15/10 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by stillstanding2
I used to keep a journal and I would document what time my ex came home at night and what he said he was doing. I went through his pockets and would find receipts. I reconciled all receipts against my journal notes.

I keep a journal too to document what he tells me versus what is really happening. He is pretty good about getting his of his receipts but I have access to his credit card account so I print the statements that document his lies.
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: I Need Help! - 07/15/10 08:33 PM
hi Anne505,
Still watching your posts, I have to say that you have handled yourself with so much strength and endurance in this situation. I know what it's like to find out your husband is having an affair and lying to you day in and day out. I also am married to a Lawyer and they have a knack for wording things and omitting the truth by not answering questions directly......re-direction is the name of the game for them, getting you off track, I can tell you have learned a lot of things about facts and proving them being married to him.......this is a good thing....I'm glad you have spoken to your own lawyer to find out what your rights are and let them help you through this with a plan that will out wit any lies he can throw at you...
Think this through and make your plan....let others help you.....most of all don't put any added stress to your health right now. Baby is the important thing right now.....not him or his dirtbag..........get your financials in the best place you can get them to and go from there.....He is going to be so blindsided by all this and you, you will get the upper hand and he will feel like a fool when he figures out how smart you really are.......you will be lucky to free yourself from someone who can hurt you like this and lie without any guilt or remorse.......
someone said the best revenge when another woman tries to steal your husband...is to let her have him.........
you will be much better off .
(((hugs))) praying for you
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: I Need Help! - 07/15/10 08:36 PM
Anne, your husband is an attorney? Wow, I would have never guessed that based on all the ways you've described him. I've VERY surprised that he would be putting ANYTHING in email or posting on FB (did I read that?) since attorneys are usually very protective of their image and are susceptible to ethics violations. Wow...
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 12:15 AM
Originally Posted by jessitaylor
hi Anne505,
Still watching your posts, I have to say that you have handled yourself with so much strength and endurance in this situation. I know what it's like to find out your husband is having an affair and lying to you day in and day out. I also am married to a Lawyer and they have a knack for wording things and omitting the truth by not answering questions directly......re-direction is the name of the game for them, getting you off track, I can tell you have learned a lot of things about facts and proving them being married to him.......this is a good thing....I'm glad you have spoken to your own lawyer to find out what your rights are and let them help you through this with a plan that will out wit any lies he can throw at you...
Think this through and make your plan....let others help you.....most of all don't put any added stress to your health right now. Baby is the important thing right now.....not him or his dirtbag..........get your financials in the best place you can get them to and go from there.....He is going to be so blindsided by all this and you, you will get the upper hand and he will feel like a fool when he figures out how smart you really are.......you will be lucky to free yourself from someone who can hurt you like this and lie without any guilt or remorse.......
someone said the best revenge when another woman tries to steal your husband...is to let her have him.........
you will be much better off .
(((hugs))) praying for you

Thank you jessitaylor. Your words are so kind and really mean a lot to me. Talking to a lawyer was the smartest thing I've done during this ugly process. WH has underestimated me and there will come a day when he will realize what a huge mistake that was. Right now my focus is to get myself set up with a more stable financial situation and then deal with him. The time I plan to take won't be easy but it is vital to me and my future as well as that of my children. I have a long, tough road ahead of me but I can get through this and will come out of it a better person with a happy life.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 12:18 AM
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Anne, your husband is an attorney? Wow, I would have never guessed that based on all the ways you've described him. I've VERY surprised that he would be putting ANYTHING in email or posting on FB (did I read that?) since attorneys are usually very protective of their image and are susceptible to ethics violations. Wow...

Yes, he is an attorney. He has actually been very careful about emails but has slipped up a little along the way. He has not done anything on FB (someone posted a fake profile about him and Dirtbag but he doesn't do much on there himself). Most of what I get comes from the VAR in the car which is where he thinks he is free to talk with Dirtbag. Too bad I can't get on in his office. I would get so much more that way but it just isn't an option. He is very protective of his image just not when he is around Dirtbag.
Posted By: misty1 Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 01:43 AM
Anne,

If he carries a bulky briefcase or laptop case to the office and home each day, maybe you can find an unused pocket, zipped pouch, or section that he never looks in to hide a small VAR encased in a small cloth cover. Look for the least noticeable place. The Panasonic I used has a timer function, set it to begin recording about the time he leaves for work and turn itself off at the time he usually gets home. Pick up a few sets of rechargeable batteries and a couple of VARS - you can swap them out each night or before he is awake in the morning. Also, check out his golf bag and see if there is a place that you could put a VAR. Mine has lots of pockets and compartments. Good luck to you, I hope you get what you need.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 01:48 PM
Originally Posted by misty1
Anne,

If he carries a bulky briefcase or laptop case to the office and home each day, maybe you can find an unused pocket, zipped pouch, or section that he never looks in to hide a small VAR encased in a small cloth cover. Look for the least noticeable place. The Panasonic I used has a timer function, set it to begin recording about the time he leaves for work and turn itself off at the time he usually gets home. Pick up a few sets of rechargeable batteries and a couple of VARS - you can swap them out each night or before he is awake in the morning. Also, check out his golf bag and see if there is a place that you could put a VAR. Mine has lots of pockets and compartments. Good luck to you, I hope you get what you need.

The laptop case won't work because he literally uses every compartment. However, I never thought about hiding anything in his golf bag so that could work. I'll check it out. The only pitfall to that is that his Dirtbag friend uses his golf bag to hid his phone he uses to communicate with his OW. WH told me this so if WH has anything like this to hide, he might use the golf bag too. Just something I'll need to consider.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 01:51 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by misty1
Anne,

If he carries a bulky briefcase or laptop case to the office and home each day, maybe you can find an unused pocket, zipped pouch, or section that he never looks in to hide a small VAR encased in a small cloth cover. Look for the least noticeable place. The Panasonic I used has a timer function, set it to begin recording about the time he leaves for work and turn itself off at the time he usually gets home. Pick up a few sets of rechargeable batteries and a couple of VARS - you can swap them out each night or before he is awake in the morning. Also, check out his golf bag and see if there is a place that you could put a VAR. Mine has lots of pockets and compartments. Good luck to you, I hope you get what you need.

The laptop case won't work because he literally uses every compartment. However, I never thought about hiding anything in his golf bag so that could work. I'll check it out. The only pitfall to that is that his Dirtbag friend uses his golf bag to hid his phone he uses to communicate with his OW. WH told me this so if WH has anything like this to hide, he might use the golf bag too. Just something I'll need to consider.

I'd be careful about this....sounds pretty risky. You don't want to get caught...he might start faking intel like crazy if he catches you...not to mention you need/want the element of a total surprise confrontation.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I'd be careful about this....sounds pretty risky. You don't want to get caught...he might start faking intel like crazy if he catches you...not to mention you need/want the element of a total surprise confrontation.

Don't worry, I'm not about to start taking risks now! Not right when I have my plan in place and I know exactly what I need to do. If anyone is going to be surprised, it will be him and it will be when I'm good and ready.

I got DB's ID and password for a dating website he uses to meet women. This guy is a real piece of work! It makes me never want to try dating again should my situation end in D.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I'd be careful about this....sounds pretty risky. You don't want to get caught...he might start faking intel like crazy if he catches you...not to mention you need/want the element of a total surprise confrontation.

Don't worry, I'm not about to start taking risks now! Not right when I have my plan in place and I know exactly what I need to do. If anyone is going to be surprised, it will be him and it will be when I'm good and ready.

I got DB's ID and password for a dating website he uses to meet women. This guy is a real piece of work! It makes me never want to try dating again should my situation end in D.

HOW did you get that!!!!! He is sharing that with your WH? Crazy!!!!
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 02:35 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
HOW did you get that!!!!! He is sharing that with your WH? Crazy!!!!

Remember when there was that Facebook profile out there that they were freaking out about? Well, WH did a big favor for Dirtbag (and an even bigger favor for me) and changed DB's password on his hotmail account that he uses with his fake name to commuicate with some of his OW. He also uses this hotmail to sign up for various dating websites. Since I have keylogger installed on WH's computer, I got the new password. I guess that keylogger paid off afterall, just in the way I had hoped!
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
HOW did you get that!!!!! He is sharing that with your WH? Crazy!!!!

Remember when there was that Facebook profile out there that they were freaking out about? Well, WH did a big favor for Dirtbag (and an even bigger favor for me) and changed DB's password on his hotmail account that he uses with his fake name to commuicate with some of his OW. He also uses this hotmail to sign up for various dating websites. Since I have keylogger installed on WH's computer, I got the new password. I guess that keylogger paid off afterall, just in the way I had hoped!

OH MY! That is unbelievable!

Btw, your thread is famous...they talk about you on other threads as the BS who snooped too long and now her LB is totally empty. smile
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 02:46 PM
You might want to check out that phone a little closer. (the one in your husbands golf bag) Cheaters often use the "i'm holding it for a friend" routine. It could very well be your WH's affair phone.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
OH MY! That is unbelievable!

Btw, your thread is famous...they talk about you on other threads as the BS who snooped too long and now her LB is totally empty. smile

Yep, WH did me quite a favor there!

I know!!!
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 02:53 PM
Originally Posted by Lexxxy
You might want to check out that phone a little closer. (the one in your husbands golf bag) Cheaters often use the "i'm holding it for a friend" routine. It could very well be your WH's affair phone.

It's not in WH's golf bag, it's in Dirtbag's golf bag. If it was in WH's bag, I would have checked it out for sure. I just figured that since WH knows DB keeps his in there, he might try the same thing.
Posted By: mindshare Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 02:57 PM
Hey Anne!

I haven't posted to you before but I have been following your thread. Just wanted to say that you amaze me with you strength, perserverance and tenacity! You are doing what is best for you and the kiddos. You are getting great support.

For what it is worth, I am in the camp that belives that WH is going to fold like a deck of cards when confronted with the truth. I think he is going to beg for mercy. But, I'm not sure he is going to be willing to make the real changes you will need in the end to recover (ie. give up dirtbag).

Anyway, just wanted to say hey and stay strong!

Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 03:34 PM
Originally Posted by mindshare
Hey Anne!

I haven't posted to you before but I have been following your thread. Just wanted to say that you amaze me with you strength, perserverance and tenacity! You are doing what is best for you and the kiddos. You are getting great support.

For what it is worth, I am in the camp that belives that WH is going to fold like a deck of cards when confronted with the truth. I think he is going to beg for mercy. But, I'm not sure he is going to be willing to make the real changes you will need in the end to recover (ie. give up dirtbag).

Anyway, just wanted to say hey and stay strong!

I think he will make a good show of folding. But I don't think this WH has any idea who he really is and therefore he won't even know what it really means to fold. Or to be remorseful. Remorse requires humility...he is so arrogant in his brazen deception of his WIFE and mother of his children...I see no humility. It will be like Tiger Woods 'changing'.

JMO of course. No one really knows what he is feeling...not even Anne.
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 03:35 PM
Hey Mindshare!

Thank you so much for the kind words. Knowing I have the support of others does help me to get through this. Really, it's all about getting me and the kids set up for the worst case scenario. If an empty LB is the tradeoff for that, well, I can deal with that. It's just what I have to do.

I really do hope you are right and he will fold, beg for mercy, etc. However, I agree with you when you say that he might not be willing to make the real changes I need. This is a real possibility and one I'm going spend much time preparing myself for.

Also, I've been thinking about how he probably sees me as completely dependent on him. I think there will be a big difference in my confrontation and the outcome once he sees this is no longer the case.

On a funny note, I am thinking I should change my screen name to "Empty LB" or "The Girl Who Snooped Too Long"...LOL!
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I think he will make a good show of folding. But I don't think this WH has any idea who he really is and therefore he won't even know what it really means to fold. Or to be remorseful. Remorse requires humility...he is so arrogant in his brazen deception of his WIFE and mother of his children...I see no humility. It will be like Tiger Woods 'changing'.

JMO of course. No one really knows what he is feeling...not even Anne.

I'm afraid you are right. There is at least a strong possibility that you are right. This is what I'm going to spend my time preparing myself for. But you're right, no one knows what he's feeling. Maybe not even him. Whatever happens, I am going to make sure that me and my kids are taken care of.
Posted By: mindshare Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
On a funny note, I am thinking I should change my screen name to "Empty LB" or "The Girl Who Snooped Too Long"...LOL!

We'll just call you Snoopy for short... smile
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 03:46 PM
Originally Posted by mindshare
We'll just call you Snoopy for short... smile

SNOOPY...I LOVE IT!!! Sometimes you just have to laugh. It keeps you from crying too much wink
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Originally Posted by mindshare
We'll just call you Snoopy for short... smile

SNOOPY...I LOVE IT!!! Sometimes you just have to laugh. It keeps you from crying too much wink

I LOVE SNOOPY! Love it. And yes you do just have to laugh sometimes...
Posted By: RTX Re: I Need Help! - 07/16/10 08:55 PM
Still believe we have a husband here with a serious case of entitlement. I believes he loves his wife and family but also believes it is totally acceptable to live on the fringes in his secret life. Has a wonderful cake at home(wife and kids), but still likes a taste away from home. This man needs Anne to bring him home.

This man is about see what it is like to step right up to the edge of the abyss. Reality will snap him out of it, the loss of his wife and family, career problems. This is going to be total destruction for this man. DB will not be an option. I heard humility mentioned, the shame this man is going to feel when he knows his wife knows what he has been up to will be crushing. I think it will be what turns him around.

If Anne confronts with the stone cold poker face she has exhibited here, and let's him know in no unceratin term she holds all the cards here, he is finished. The ultimate Kodak moment. She can set the bar where she wants to set it, I believe he follows. Only question at that point is if Anne wants him.

Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/18/10 11:59 PM
Originally Posted by RTX
Still believe we have a husband here with a serious case of entitlement. I believes he loves his wife and family but also believes it is totally acceptable to live on the fringes in his secret life. Has a wonderful cake at home(wife and kids), but still likes a taste away from home. This man needs Anne to bring him home.

Yes, I agree that this is a case of entitlement. I also feel strongly that he loves his children but I am no longer convinced that he loves me. It will be interesting to see how he reacts to a confrontation. He will have the chance to turn his life around and save our marriage. That is a promise I have made to myself but it will be up to him to take it.

Things are quiet on the surface but there is much going on behind the scenes. I know he is trying to find a way to go on a golf weekend with his scumbag friends (although he has yet to tell me about it). He might have actually planned it for the same weekend that my cousin is getting married in August since he seemed really shocked (and not very happy) that I wanted to go. My mom is still undergoing chemo for stage 3 cancer and I don't think he could be any less supportive. He seems happy about the baby but he's told me so many lies that it's hard to know what to believe.

I am finding ways to cope with all of this. As bad as things are, there is still so much good in my life and so many reasons to feel blessed. I am enjoying the summer with my kids. I am really excited that I will be welcoming my little girl into the world this fall. I have always wanted a daugter and can not believe how lucky I am to be having her in a few months. Due to our hardships, my mom and I are growing closer and supporting each other in ways I never imagined we could. I continue to see a therapist which helps me to make sense of all of this. Most important, I have my plan in place which is to get myself set up financially so I will be prepared for the worst case scenario once I finally do confront. That will take time and I know it's not going to be easy, but it's what I feel I must do in order for me and my children to be okay no matter what the outcome of this ugly situation.

Overall, I think I will come out of this a better person with a happier life. That can be with him or without him - it's entirely up to him. Either way, I will be okay!
Posted By: LouGehrig Re: I Need Help! - 07/19/10 04:20 PM
Anne,

I have been following your story from the beginning and I think you are handling all this beautifully. I'm rooting for you and praying that things will turn out the best for you whatever that ends up being.

One question that I don't recall has been answered is, after you do finally confront him, are you planning a nuclear exposure? I think it would be the only way for you to avoid a false recovery (FR) if he claims to meet your terms.

-Tom
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: I Need Help! - 07/20/10 12:30 AM
Originally Posted by LouGehrig
Anne,

I have been following your story from the beginning and I think you are handling all this beautifully. I'm rooting for you and praying that things will turn out the best for you whatever that ends up being.

One question that I don't recall has been answered is, after you do finally confront him, are you planning a nuclear exposure? I think it would be the only way for you to avoid a false recovery (FR) if he claims to meet your terms.

-Tom

Interesting...not sure if we've ever discussed this.

How are you today Anne?
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/20/10 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Originally Posted by LouGehrig
Anne,

I have been following your story from the beginning and I think you are handling all this beautifully. I'm rooting for you and praying that things will turn out the best for you whatever that ends up being.

One question that I don't recall has been answered is, after you do finally confront him, are you planning a nuclear exposure? I think it would be the only way for you to avoid a false recovery (FR) if he claims to meet your terms.

-Tom

Interesting...not sure if we've ever discussed this.

How are you today Anne?

Given the change in my gameplan, I haven't been thinking much about exposure. I do agree that this is the only way to avoid FR. So, when the time comes, I'm sure that nuclear exposure will be the way to go. Since that day has been put off for awhile so I'm focusing on more timely issues.

I'm doing well actually, better than I have been in awhile. I think having a solid plan in place is very helpful for me since I'm such a detail oriented person. I'm focusing on getting my finances in order so that I can be ready for the worst case scenario when the time comes. This is actually going to help me a great deal because it is giving me confidence as well as a sense of control. This will only help me when I choose to finally get things out in the open. It feels good to know that I will have choices and not have to follow his lead because I am financially dependent on him.

The one downside to my new plan is that it is going to take some time. I know it's not going to be easy and at times will feel impossible. But I do feel that I'm making real progress (both emotionally and within my situation) for the first time in a long time. I know I will end up in a better place (either in my marriage or on my own) and everything I'm doing right now is helping me to get to that place.

Thanks for asking about me. I always love to hear from you!
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/20/10 04:04 PM
Originally Posted by LouGehrig
Anne,

I have been following your story from the beginning and I think you are handling all this beautifully. I'm rooting for you and praying that things will turn out the best for you whatever that ends up being.

One question that I don't recall has been answered is, after you do finally confront him, are you planning a nuclear exposure? I think it would be the only way for you to avoid a false recovery (FR) if he claims to meet your terms.

-Tom

Thanks for the kind words Tom. I know that my planning for worst case scenario (i.e., divorce) is not exactly what MB is all about. But I do think this is the right path for me and those on MB have helped me find my way. It does help to know that others are thinking of me and hoping for a good outcome.

I also think you're right about nuclear exposure. For me that day has been put off for quite awhile. But, when the time comes this will be the way to go.

Thanks again for giving me your input. It really helps to hear from men on the board. It's nice to know that there are still some good ones out there!
Posted By: mindshare Re: I Need Help! - 07/21/10 04:07 PM
Originally Posted by anne505
Thanks for the kind words Tom. I know that my planning for worst case scenario (i.e., divorce) is not exactly what MB is all about. But I do think this is the right path for me and those on MB have helped me find my way. It does help to know that others are thinking of me and hoping for a good outcome.

Hey Snoopy! laugh

You are doing just great!

You are right that this is a marriage building site and depending on how things shake out for you, you may just be recovering a marriage. The things you learn here can also equally help you with personal recovery. So, you should definitely keep coming here for support and help with any questions that you have.

I also agree that exposure will be called for when the time comes. Just make sure you don't tell him in advance that you are going to do it. Just do it.

Hang in there. We've got your back....
Posted By: anne505 Re: I Need Help! - 07/21/10 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by mindshare
You are doing just great!

You are right that this is a marriage building site and depending on how things shake out for you, you may just be recovering a marriage. The things you learn here can also equally help you with personal recovery. So, you should definitely keep coming here for support and help with any questions that you have.

I also agree that exposure will be called for when the time comes. Just make sure you don't tell him in advance that you are going t