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Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Do you have your list of conditions you will require to consider staying? You need a written list NOW...not that I would present him with that list at the confrontation...it will be more than he can absorb. But you need it written up now while you can somewhat focus. You won't be able to focus as much after confrontation.

Good idea. I know what I need in order to work things out but I don't have it written down. I never even thought about doing that. I can take care of that very easily though.

Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I do follow your line of reasoning...but I think whenever you confront you face the possibility of him reacting that way and being defiant at first. If you are going to wait until after he goes out with DB to confront I would SERIOUSLY consider hiring a PI to follow him while he is out. Ask your lawyer on Monday for a good reference and call for a price. Or your lawyer may even be able to arrange it--sometimes PIs work for lawyers and you might have better success that way. I think the shock and awe of video and a PI report will go a long ways toward making your WH understanding you are dead serious about not tolerating this behavior.

Thinking of you as always. (((Anne)))

Good thinking about getting a PI if I choose to wait until after their outing. I will discuss that with the attorney on Monday. As for the timing of the confrontation, I think I will listen to my gut and do it when it feels right. That's the approach I have taken during this ordeal and I feel it has served me well. I'm going to take things one day at a time rather than put deadlines on this. First step, the meeting with the attorney on Monday. Wish me luck!

anne505 #2403153 07/10/10 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by anne505
As for the timing of the confrontation, I think I will listen to my gut and do it when it feels right. That's the approach I have taken during this ordeal and I feel it has served me well. I'm going to take things one day at a time rather than put deadlines on this. First step, the meeting with the attorney on Monday. Wish me luck!

I will be waiting on pins and needles to hear what your attorney says. I know this is hard but you will find strength in taking action like you are doing.

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Well Anne? What did the attorney say?

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Another bump.....worried about you Anne!

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Yes, we wanna know what the lawyer said! laugh

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Sorry for not checking in yesterday. It was a crazy day.

I met with the attorney yesterday. It went much better than I expected. She's very shrewd and I would feel comfortable hiring her if I were to proceed with a D.

My financial outlook is much better than I expected. After talking with her, I am a lot less afraid of what would happen if I were to file. The best news she had for me is that since my mom lives in the state, it doesn't matter how far away she is, I am free to move in with her without his permission. He could try and stop me but probably would not be successful, especially if I make sure he has access to the kids (which I would, I have no intention of keep the kids from him).

Even though I did get some promising news, I am more confused than ever. She shared with me her thougths on when and how to confront him. I am keeping in mind that this advice is coming from a DIVORCE attorney. However, she makes some excellent points which I am going to carefully consider.

She feels it's important that I don't confront right away. From her point of view, I am in the driver's seat and when I confront, I will lose my control as well as my intel sources. She thinks this will put me at a disadvantage in several different ways. One of her main concerns is that my intel isn't rock solid and he could feasibly lie his way out of this.

She also feels that I should be spending my time getting myself set up with a little more security so that when I do confront, I am prepared if he up and leaves (as a D attorney, she's seen this happen many times, of course). You can never know how Waywards will react and she is trying to prepare me for the worst case scenario.

She also expressed her concerns of what a confrontation could do to me during my pregnancy and urged me to weigh the pros and cons about the timing (i.e., before or after baby). She wasn't telling me what to do but sort of playing devil's advocate ina way that few others would be able to do. She brought up some excellent points which I do need to consider before I proceed.

I meet with my therapist tomorrow and she can help me clarify my feelings about all of this. I wasn't prepared for the fact that her answers would lead to so many questions that only I can answer. However, I do feel better after seeing her. I have a lot to think about.

anne505 #2404339 07/13/10 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by anne505
My financial outlook is much better than I expected. After talking with her, I am a lot less afraid of what would happen if I were to file. The best news she had for me is that since my mom lives in the state, it doesn't matter how far away she is, I am free to move in with her without his permission. He could try and stop me but probably would not be successful, especially if I make sure he has access to the kids (which I would, I have no intention of keep the kids from him).

I am very glad to hear this. One less thing to worry about.

Originally Posted by anne505
She also expressed her concerns of what a confrontation could do to me during my pregnancy and urged me to weigh the pros and cons about the timing (i.e., before or after baby). She wasn't telling me what to do but sort of playing devil's advocate ina way that few others would be able to do. She brought up some excellent points which I do need to consider before I proceed.


I have been worried about you and the baby too Anne. I know you are more than half way through the pregnancy....There is no way to say what will be more upsetting to you....continuing to live with this knowledge you have that your husband is living a double life...or make a definite move to DO something by way of confrontation.

I've been all about getting more proof and I hope you can do that. Btw, did you ask her about a PI?

It is true though that you have to be the one to decide when enough is enough.

And if you wait until the baby comes....hmmmmm.....I worry he might expose you and the baby to something via SF.

anne505 #2404477 07/13/10 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by anne505
Sorry for not checking in yesterday. It was a crazy day.

I met with the attorney yesterday. It went much better than I expected. She's very shrewd and I would feel comfortable hiring her if I were to proceed with a D.

My financial outlook is much better than I expected. After talking with her, I am a lot less afraid of what would happen if I were to file. The best news she had for me is that since my mom lives in the state, it doesn't matter how far away she is, I am free to move in with her without his permission. He could try and stop me but probably would not be successful, especially if I make sure he has access to the kids (which I would, I have no intention of keep the kids from him).

Even though I did get some promising news, I am more confused than ever. She shared with me her thougths on when and how to confront him. I am keeping in mind that this advice is coming from a DIVORCE attorney. However, she makes some excellent points which I am going to carefully consider.

She feels it's important that I don't confront right away. From her point of view, I am in the driver's seat and when I confront, I will lose my control as well as my intel sources. She thinks this will put me at a disadvantage in several different ways. One of her main concerns is that my intel isn't rock solid and he could feasibly lie his way out of this.

She also feels that I should be spending my time getting myself set up with a little more security so that when I do confront, I am prepared if he up and leaves (as a D attorney, she's seen this happen many times, of course). You can never know how Waywards will react and she is trying to prepare me for the worst case scenario.

She also expressed her concerns of what a confrontation could do to me during my pregnancy and urged me to weigh the pros and cons about the timing (i.e., before or after baby). She wasn't telling me what to do but sort of playing devil's advocate ina way that few others would be able to do. She brought up some excellent points which I do need to consider before I proceed.

I meet with my therapist tomorrow and she can help me clarify my feelings about all of this. I wasn't prepared for the fact that her answers would lead to so many questions that only I can answer. However, I do feel better after seeing her. I have a lot to think about.

I have been reading your thread. I remember the wondering stage. I know how difficult this is for you. I can't even begin to imagine going through this while pregnant. You are doing the right things by not confronting yet. I agree that you should have a worst-case scenario plan now - before everything is out in the open. Once, the cat is out of the bag, you have no idea what will happen. Plan A does include snooping and getting some financial security. It is much easier to do this before you confront. You have much to consider.


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Anne, what did your therapist have to say about all this today?

Thinking about you.....hope you are well.

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She felt the attorney had some very good advice for me and urged me to think things over before making a decision. That is exactly what I've been doing. I'm still conflicted but working things out. Right now, I am leaning towards taking the attorney's advice and getting myself in a better finaical situation and then confronting. That way, if he surprises me by walking out the door (something I honestly never considered before) then I will be okay. If he were to leave today, things would be very difficult for me and the kids - at least for the short term.

There are many things to consider. One is my stress level. Either way, I will have a lot of stress to deal with. One advantage to waiting is that I know the stress I am dealing with now as opposed to the unknown stress I would deal with after a confrontation.

Something else to consider is the fact that I have the advantage of information which I would lose after I confront. For example, yesterday he went gambling again but told me he was working. He's also trying to plan a golf weekend with his scumbag friends. I know these things because he thinks I have no clue what he's up to. Once he knows that I know, I will have the added stress of not knowing if he's telling me the truth or not. It's stressful to know what he's up to behind my back but it would possibly be more stressful not to know.

On the one hand, the prospect of staying quiet and watch him destroy our marriage is not what I want. On the other hand, neither is being put in a bad finacial situation with three small children and no job. I believe I need to prepare myself for the worst case scenario. I no longer know this man (if I ever did) and have no idea what he will do once the fact that I know is out there in the open. I feel this is a chance I can not take right now. I have to much to risk.

I realize the decision I seem to be coming to is not very "Marriage Builderish". However, I do want to thank everyone here who has helped me along the way. The bottom line is that I need to be selfish right now and put the needs of me and my children before those of WH and our marriage.

That being said, I am going to hang in there, keep snooping and try not to lose hope. Thanks again to all of you who have helped me along this very difficult path.

anne505 #2405397 07/15/10 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by anne505
There are many things to consider. One is my stress level. Either way, I will have a lot of stress to deal with. One advantage to waiting is that I know the stress I am dealing with now as opposed to the unknown stress I would deal with after a confrontation.


This is a very good point.

Originally Posted by anne505
Something else to consider is the fact that I have the advantage of information which I would lose after I confront. For example, yesterday he went gambling again but told me he was working. He's also trying to plan a golf weekend with his scumbag friends. I know these things because he thinks I have no clue what he's up to. Once he knows that I know, I will have the added stress of not knowing if he's telling me the truth or not. It's stressful to know what he's up to behind my back but it would possibly be more stressful not to know.


True, but realize also that if you confront you have said he will have to provide you with EP that he will BE different. And he will need to be the one to provide tht proof. So once you confront it will never again be like it has been. It will be a new husband or it will be no husband.

Originally Posted by anne505
On the one hand, the prospect of staying quiet and watch him destroy our marriage is not what I want. On the other hand, neither is being put in a bad finacial situation with three small children and no job. I believe I need to prepare myself for the worst case scenario. I no longer know this man (if I ever did) and have no idea what he will do once the fact that I know is out there in the open. I feel this is a chance I can not take right now. I have to much to risk.

I agree. Just keep venting here and hang in there. You have amazing self-restraint...this has been going on since March. He is going to be sooooo freaked out when you do confront....he will be sick wondering and worrying about what all you have silently watched him do over the last 6 months (or more).

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Anne --

As you prepare to confront him, have you been documenting his activities / lies ?

For example, I assume that the fact he lies to you about going gambling when he is supposedly working is a big issue for your marriage. Do you have the abililty to say "H, I know that on 7/13 you told me you were working when really you and Dirtbag went to Lucky Casino for the day." or "H, I know that on 7/10 you spend the afternoon with Butterface even though you told me you were golfing." ETC.

Since he is an attorney -- I would try to present some of those facts in such a way that he cannot try to gaslight you. I suspect that he would try to say that he never told you he was working or that he never said butterface wasn't there etc. He'll make it all NO BIG DEAL, he never lied, etc etc.

I would have a diary or some type of reference material ready to go.

Anne -- you've got guts! So much grace under pressure.
I really admire your ability to silently watch -- because I know it would find it really difficult not to explode at him with the details you have.





Lexxxy #2405508 07/15/10 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Lexxxy
Anne --

As you prepare to confront him, have you been documenting his activities / lies ?

For example, I assume that the fact he lies to you about going gambling when he is supposedly working is a big issue for your marriage. Do you have the abililty to say "H, I know that on 7/13 you told me you were working when really you and Dirtbag went to Lucky Casino for the day." or "H, I know that on 7/10 you spend the afternoon with Butterface even though you told me you were golfing." ETC.

Since he is an attorney -- I would try to present some of those facts in such a way that he cannot try to gaslight you. I suspect that he would try to say that he never told you he was working or that he never said butterface wasn't there etc. He'll make it all NO BIG DEAL, he never lied, etc etc.

I would have a diary or some type of reference material ready to go.

Anne -- you've got guts! So much grace under pressure.
I really admire your ability to silently watch -- because I know it would find it really difficult not to explode at him with the details you have.

Yes, I document everything! Thanks for your words of support. This is not an easy situation but I feel I am handling it in the best way possible for me and my children. You're right, though...not exploding at him sometimes takes every ounce of strength I have! But in the long run, the wait will serve me well. I will be set up and in a position to walk out the door (or kick him out) if he refuses to make the necessary changes. Besides, this way, he gets the fun of midnight feedings. Why cut him loose now only to let him go out and party every night with DB while I'm at home taking care of a baby 24/7?

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Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
So once you confront it will never again be like it has been. It will be a new husband or it will be no husband.

That is a very good point...new husband or no husband. Since I have no idea which one will emerge after confrontation, I am making the choice to finacially prepare myself for either scenario. I think this will serve me well no matter what the outcome.

Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Just keep venting here and hang in there. You have amazing self-restraint...this has been going on since March. He is going to be sooooo freaked out when you do confront....he will be sick wondering and worrying about what all you have silently watched him do over the last 6 months (or more).

Thanks for listening to me vent. It really does help me to get through this and make sense of all the unwanted ugliness in my life. I think he will be freaked out which is why I am so unsure of his reaction. I no longer know this man and can not predict how he will react to the truth coming out.

He wants to take me and the boys to a water park in the upcoming week or so. He is also planning a golf trip with his scumbag buddies. My guess is that he thinks the water park trip will make it impossible for me to say no to his little golf trip. He's become so calculating. I don't know when this happened or if he was always like this and I just didn't know it. That's okay because while he's busy making his plans, I'm busy making mine.

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Originally Posted by anne505
[quote=SmilingWoman]

He wants to take me and the boys to a water park in the upcoming week or so. He is also planning a golf trip with his scumbag buddies. My guess is that he thinks the water park trip will make it impossible for me to say no to his little golf trip. He's become so calculating. I don't know when this happened or if he was always like this and I just didn't know it. That's okay because while he's busy making his plans, I'm busy making mine.

Yes he is calculating.....and chances are great he has always been this way...you just never noticed because you weren't assigning bad motives to him. Now that you have PROOF of his patterns, they stand out like neon signs.

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I used to keep a journal and I would document what time my ex came home at night and what he said he was doing. I went through his pockets and would find receipts. I reconciled all receipts against my journal notes.


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Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Yes he is calculating.....and chances are great he has always been this way...you just never noticed because you weren't assigning bad motives to him. Now that you have PROOF of his patterns, they stand out like neon signs.

Very true. And now I have more time to find out just how far this goes. Information is power and I get more every day.

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Originally Posted by stillstanding2
I used to keep a journal and I would document what time my ex came home at night and what he said he was doing. I went through his pockets and would find receipts. I reconciled all receipts against my journal notes.

I keep a journal too to document what he tells me versus what is really happening. He is pretty good about getting his of his receipts but I have access to his credit card account so I print the statements that document his lies.

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hi Anne505,
Still watching your posts, I have to say that you have handled yourself with so much strength and endurance in this situation. I know what it's like to find out your husband is having an affair and lying to you day in and day out. I also am married to a Lawyer and they have a knack for wording things and omitting the truth by not answering questions directly......re-direction is the name of the game for them, getting you off track, I can tell you have learned a lot of things about facts and proving them being married to him.......this is a good thing....I'm glad you have spoken to your own lawyer to find out what your rights are and let them help you through this with a plan that will out wit any lies he can throw at you...
Think this through and make your plan....let others help you.....most of all don't put any added stress to your health right now. Baby is the important thing right now.....not him or his dirtbag..........get your financials in the best place you can get them to and go from there.....He is going to be so blindsided by all this and you, you will get the upper hand and he will feel like a fool when he figures out how smart you really are.......you will be lucky to free yourself from someone who can hurt you like this and lie without any guilt or remorse.......
someone said the best revenge when another woman tries to steal your husband...is to let her have him.........
you will be much better off .
(((hugs))) praying for you


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WH 57
Married 25 years, live together for 2, dated 2 years before that.....
DS 23, DS 25
D-Day Nov 23/09
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anne505 #2405637 07/15/10 03:36 PM
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Anne, your husband is an attorney? Wow, I would have never guessed that based on all the ways you've described him. I've VERY surprised that he would be putting ANYTHING in email or posting on FB (did I read that?) since attorneys are usually very protective of their image and are susceptible to ethics violations. Wow...


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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