lostinspace, I don't want to derail SC's thread, but I am a FWW. My M stunk at the time of my A. But you know who chose to cheat? ME. And only ME. My A was MY choice and MY responsibility. Until you realize that, the fog gets deeper and deeper. Your H may be responsible for part of the M, but he is in no way culpable for YOUR choice to cheat. Those are the facts. If you don't want to be forced together, if you want someone else, DIVORCE FIRST. And I don't mean separate or file or get in the process...I mean an actual divorce.

Thank you Larry and SDCW! I actually LOL'ed at SDCW's post. I needed to be beaten down. I KNOW I am acting insane. On the outside, I am probably one of the most responsible, well-respected professionals you would ever meet. It's only on the inside that I'm a mess. I'm just trying desperately to get my inside to go back to match the outside. And thanks for the words of encouragement from everyone. The tough love is harsh, but necessary, and the encouragement softens the blow. Lost in Space, believe me, I have had, and am struggling with the same thoughts that you are having. It's so easy to say it's HIS fault, that our M is dead, that we've grown apart (how true), and that I'll be happier with the OM. That is the lie that I'm trying to fight. But I know in my heart that if I left my M for the OM, those same things would happen with him. Don't you agree? And then I've thrown away an otherwise good M for what? My H is a wonderful man. We share the same career. Have always had a good M. Rarely fight. Laugh a lot together. We've just grown apart. Right now he feels more like a brother to me than a romantic partner. It would be so much easier if my H were an abusive man, and I have so wished for that. It makes the "choice" so much easier.

And, TST and Larry, you're right, I don't understand addiction at all. I've always assumed people used because they wanted to escape their lives. I'm not sure why I decided to start the A. But I definitely believe it's destroying my life as surely as any drug could. And I do believe I'm addicted to the OM. I have never done drugs because I knew they would ruin my life. I never had the slightest idea that another person could have the same effect. Those of you with experience of addiction, please help me understand. If I'm not missing something from within,and I'm only chasing the high, how do I learn to live without it when I know it's out there? I also struggle with alcohol (it's only gotten worse throughout the A), and I want to know. How do you learn to live without out it when you know it's out there and it's "socially acceptable"? Know what I mean? It's socially acceptable to drink and it's socially acceptable to divorce. I'm not saying I want either--I don't--but it makes it more difficult to resist the temptation. Especially when you can tell yourself "it's only one drink," or "it's only one e-mail." You think, "what's the harm in that, I can control it."

And please continue to knock some sense into me! I have to stay strong to resist the temptation of the OM. I suspect he may be using me, I suspect that he'll drop me as soon as I'm free, we are 15 YEARS APART in age--but he says all the right things. He "loves" me, he's never felt this way about anyone, I understand him, and no one ever has before, blah, blah, blah.

Lurioosi, I agree with you. It's so much easier to blame the M than to blame myself. And I do believe that women don't leave without an escape plan. But, at the end of the day, I chose to have the A rather than focus on my M and try to fix it. I realize that if my M fails, I am going to have to face life on my own and not rely on the cushion of the OM. I would NEVER have the strength to leave my M if it weren't for the presence of the OM in my life. I had never even considered it. I knew our M was in a bad state, but it wasn't until the OM appeared that I considered bailing on it. That was my fault. It was a cowardly way of dealing with my marital woes. If my marriage was that bad to begin with, I should have faced the truth and left on my own, rather than putting my H and my kids through he77. Obviously, I do not have that strong of character.

This is a nonsensical avoidance tactic, SC. Waiting for your feelings to line up with your head is a way to avoid making change FOREVER since feelings FOLLOW ACTIONS. Waiting for a magic feeling to invade you against your will is unrealistic. And I know you are old enough to know better.

What will effect the change is making the decision to change. And that can be done TODAY. There is no reason to put it off for another minute.

Oh My are you fooling yourself!

If you think your professional and responsible on the outside you are delusional.

YOU HAD AN AFFAIR WITH A CO-WORKER!

I'm sorry but that's not professional OR responsible.

Now you are an irresponsible woman at work and in your profession! ON THE OUTSIDE TOO! If you think for one second that nearly everyone you work with or asssociate with in your profession isn't aware that you have been having an A then you're fooling yourself terribly. And if you think OM hasn't told other men at work or elsewhere that he's had you then , again, you are naive

If you were a true professional you would resign your position immediately and go NC immediately.

My FWH used to say this too, about his A.
I think it's a cop out.
He'd say, 'I'm not as strong as you' ...... that makes me sound like the hero or something.

I'm far from the hero, I'm not necessarily the stronger one ...........

I simply chose to not commit adultery.

Springchicken - why do you say you don't have that strong of character? Why do you demean yourself and your feelings? Becuase you weren't able to leave your M flat? Because you weren't sure that was what you wanted. You just said you knew your M was in a bad state. So - the choice was to have the A or get divorced or maybe the A showed you that you could find love somewhere else and allow you to value yourself. Not everyone that has an A is a bad person of low moral character willing to disregard the feelings of everyone else for their 10 minutes of the high.

Kids are resilient - they copy their role models? So it is better for them to see their parents in an unhappy M, than try and find some way to be happy and move on. And why is the A their business? Do you have a wonderful romantic night with your H and get up and tell your kids? Is it their business what goes on in your bedroom? Ever? Will they love you less if they knew? Will they love you more if you stay in your M? Less if you get divorced?

Do you see what you've said??????????

This is why you ELIMINATE all contact with the OM!

You get honest with your H!

And work on your M!

YOU are using OM and OM is using you..... SICK!

And everyone around you smells the A.... they are gossiping and talking about what a looser both of you are.

Lost in space... you are truely LOST

PLEASE READ THE BASIC CONCEPTS BEFORE POSTING ON THIS FORUM!

Ohmigosh, I cannot believe you even said that. Do you really believe that anyone at work respects you after shagging a male coworker? Maybe so if you work at a strip club and are a "professional" stripper, but I have been in the corporate world for 21 years and people who have affairs are PARIAHS. PARIAHS. Having an affair is an open announcement that you can't be trusted, that you have no ethics. The very foundation of teamwork. This is why hiring managers don't touch cheaters with a 10' pole: they are untrustworthy. That have no ethics.

I work in an male dominated Fortune 500 company and I KNOW what men say about women who have affairs at work. It is not pretty! I say to myself "I don't ever want my coworkers to talk about me like that...."

People who have affairs are not respected in the workplace, SC. You have ruined your reputation and by ruining your reputation you have ruined your career at this company. Like tst said, the only person you are fooling yourself.

Kids are DEVISTATED when parents get divorced! The are NOT resilient... they are forced to deal with a parents crappy immoral choices!

And YES it is your kids business if you are committing adultery!

The need to have a vote about this, just like your spouse needs to have a vote about this.

A wayward hides it all because they know what the truth is and they know what they are doing is WRONG!

Between SpringChicken and now LostInSpace

I think I want to go take a shower and clean those things off, I'm feeling like I'm gonna be sick! You would think as a FWH it wouldn't bother me......but it does!

SC

I suspect that you have now discovered that around here, you can run, but you can't hide. See, it isn't the outside lies that really, really mess with our character, it is the internal ones. And Mel has done her job of pointing out some of your internal lies. There are more. And they are obvious.

See, we have this popular culture thing going on. This is where the media sells all sorts of juicy stories of licentious activities by the rich and famous to an audience thirsty for diversion. And the audience eats it up. A President says that oral isn't sex. More than a few are influenced to lie to themselves and use that as justification.

Just because we have a dopamine reward response in our brain, doesn't mean that the act that caused that reward is of benefit, long term or short term. Of benefit to either ourselves or, to make a point, to the little people we have conceived and for whom we responsible. At what price mommy's affair to the ones who look up to her as the ultimate role model?

Yet just last night, I see this female who is in the middle of an affair, say, "The kids are resilient." If that means the kids won't die, sure. If that means the kids will grow up with a warped sense of right and wrong, that woman has just uttered the biggest lie she could ever tell HERSELF. She has betrayed her children. Period.

I don't have much patience with the well documented mid life crisis thing. I don't have much patience with women who say my marriage has gone stale. You know how that one goes, "My husband is a great guy, but. . ." But be damned. If husband is a such great guy, why betray him? What does that make a female who does it? You can switch genders and the same holds true.

It is all fine and good to examine how dopamine influences what we do in life. But not to the extent of a cop out. Not to the extent of allowing ourselves to lie. In my opinion, the discovery of an internal lie is easy.

If what I did in private is something that I would not have done in front of my 10 year old in public, it was wrong. And anything I tell myself about what I did to justify, is an internal lie.

Larry

I've read the basic concepts. I understand Plan A, B, NC. I get the idea of addiction, bad moral character. I've read them. The hardest part is the intolerance shown to the WS. We are all human and make mistakes. I don't believe you have to be "cruel to be kind." I think there is a lot of fear mongering. I don't think that springchicken is a bad person, of bad moral character. I think that she, like so many others made a mistake. She's not evil. She's not unprofessional. She's not a bad mother, bad co-worker. I think she's human. If she wants to repair her marriage, I agree, that NC is the only way to do. I agree that she can't get past her addiction without it. But making her feel she's bad, is simply cruel.

I think that the ONLY time someone writes

"don't judge me"

is when they KNOW their actions will be judged because they KNOW they have acted badly!

A person never says:

"I educate my child .... please don't judge me."
"I've been faithful to my vows ... please don't judge me."
"I got an A on my book report ... please don't judge me."
"I exercised and watched my diet and lost 35 pounds ... please don't judge me."

They might say:

"I don't make my child attend school ... please don't judge me."
"I've cheated on my spouse ... please don't judge me."
"I failed my book report ... please don't judge me."
"I ate 12 donuts and sat around on my butt all day and now I am fat ... please don't judge me."

It is a that your conscience bothers you when you say:

"Please don't judge me"

You know your actions deserve scrutiny - but you reject that very same scrutiny.

lost, if a person does not feel "bad" about being bad, they are probably a sociopath without a conscience. A person should feel bad about being bad. It is cruel to lie and cheat; it is not "cruel" to feel bad about cruelty. If a person doesn't feel bad about that, she is probably messed up.

Your posts here are not helpful and reflect the shallow foggy thinking of an adulterer. If you believe that lying and cheating are signs of a good character, then that reflects your own foggy thinking and not reality.

The blind cannot lead the blind. You are just disrupting this thread and I would ask that you stop.

Start your own dang thread. You may have read Einstein's theory of whatever, but it doesn't mean you understand. Right now you are running from your own thread and using SC to hide.

Won't work, not around here. See Pep and Mel posts. You are hijacking SC's thread to project on her your own internal lies.

Start your own dang thread.

Larry

I was a WW, and you know....I WAS A BAD PERSON. A good person does not flirt with, share with, or sleep with a man other than her husband. A good person does not continually lie and deceive. A good person does not expose her spouse to possible disease. A good person does not show by her actions that she doesn't care enough about her children to stay faithful to their father. Period.

Also...a good person takes responsibility without shifting blame. A good person comes clean. A good person puts protecting the marriage above everything - even temporary teenage heartache. A good person will crawl across broken glass to make amends for the ultimate marital betrayal.

And as far as a WW feeling bad...I NEEDED to feel bad. I needed to see what was REALLY looking back at me in the mirror. Because if I hadn't, it never ever would have truly changed.

I have a soft heart for any truly repentant WW. But someone who comes here with all the touchy feely morally skewed mumbo jumbo....nope. None. Nada.