I can't believe I have reached the point in which it seems reasonable to seek advice from strangers, but I have nothing to lose.

So a quick history on DH and I. We met at the very tail end of my previous marriage. I had already decided to leave, but in the interest of ownership I will call it what it was: an affair. Within three days of this affair I left my then husband for the man I am married to now. We have been together three years now.

In that time there have been a series of betrayals by my husband. Because it is important to my inability to move on, I want to list the major ones.

� kept and hid a homemade porn with his ex (and in my opinion the woman who still has his heart) after I moved in. I found it, watched it, and threw it away. He was furious.

� got mad at me and told me he considered calling his ex. I told him I would be devastated if he did. Within a week he picked a fight and not only called her, but took her out for drinks at "our bar." He admitted he would have slept with her if he had the chance. He contacted her once more after that.

� We took a road trip to see another ex of his and by the end of the night he was wasted. We were all in a hot tub and he kept putting his face in her boobs and grabbing her crotch and flat out refused to sit by me. I convinced him to get out and go upstairs to change. He was too drunk to pull up his pants so I left him exposed and went downstairs to advise his ex of my plight. She walks upstairs and goes to the room where he lay nude and locked the door. They did not emerge for over 20 minutes. He says he can't remember anything but thinks they might have kissed.

� He has contacted several other exes when we are fighting despite promises he won't do it again.

� after all this, we got married.

� less than 9 months into our marriage, we got into a huge fight and he ended up going to stay at a friends apartment. The next morning he called and the number on caller ID was another woman. I begged him to come home and he refused. He spent all day with this girl (who by the way is a stripper) getting wasted. He always swore nothing happened other than he slept next to her, danced with her, etc. I decided to contact her and though she denied actual intercourse admitted she gave him oral sex.


SO... My plight is that as foolish as I am sure I look for wanting to stick by this man, I really do want to. However, I can't trust him and as a result I question him when he gets home late, don't let him drink outside of the house, and don't allow any contact with any of his exes. He feels controlled and I need reassurance he will do whatever it takes to prove he has changed. In the mean time I end up obsessing and become paranoid and hurt all over again. I want to move on, but HOW??

Thanks for reading. I appreciate any input.

Welcome to marriagebuilders. Marriages that begin as affairs never last. It is only something like 3% that end in marriage, 75% end in divorce within 5 years. And the problem is that the seeds of destruction are in the affair.

He probably has not changed, and that is one of the problems.

Do you have children with this man?

Thanks for at least being honest that the marriage began as an affair.

Jaded:

Welcome to Marriage Builders, the club nobody wants to join, well most don't want to join.


You are here seeking help. Help will be provided. You may or may not want to hear some of the things that will be said. There are people here who have been crushed by adultery. There are people here who have done the crushing and do not care much for who they used to be.


How many exes does he have?

You KNOW he is a serial adulterer, right?

You KNOW he has cheated on you multiple times, right?

And that he has the morals of an alley cat, right?


I would bet he does!

What puzzles me is why so many women loose their morals, ethics and, uh, humanity around him. Does he have one of these science fiction devices that turn normal women into sluts or are they sluts to begin with. I really don't understand. It sounds like a bunch of hedonists with zero control over themselves. Pardon the word I used, I just couldn't think of a descriptive word that was less, harsh.

Do any of these people have a real life, like with kids and stuff like that?

See I am taking what you say at face value. Maybe I shouldn't, but I am.

Let me ask you a few questions.

What do you really want out of life. I think the probability of your husband turning from hedonist in charge of self destructive activities into a paragon of virtue ranges from zero to not going to happen in this lifetime.

Do you have kids? Do you want kids? What kind of lifestyle would you choose to present to kids?

What do you want in a husband? Do you think you would be capable of being a true, blue and honest partner for a real man, one who had an honor system, unlike your present paramour? Do you think badly of yourself because of your last marriage?

What do you want out of life? And please, tell me what you are going to do to earn what you get.

Just asking. . .

Larry

I had 3 children from my first husband, he has one that he has sole custody of (I am "mom") to her, and we have a son together. I know it sounds crazy, but cheating aside we have a really fun and amazing family. I can understand why you would view him the way you do. I have the benefit of knowing all of his wonderful qualities and still have trouble not viewing him like that.

I recognize that I am placing myself in an incredibly vulnerable position, but for whatever reason I really want to take the risk so that I never wonder, "what if?"

I just need suggestions on how to get past the point I am obsessing about it with the slightest reminders.

Look at the man's choices & priorities: sleeping with married women (you at one point), watching porn, hanging out in bars, getting trashed, hot tubs, round-robin relationships with his exes, and lying about them and/or being too inebriated to recall.

You're worried about saving this relationship? If I were you, I'd worry more about getting some kind of serious crotch-borne disease from one of these other women that he can't remember what happens with.

Why do you want to continue in a relationship with this person, if he can't be happy without the above things? Why is he so important to you, if the above things are more important to him than you are, and if he feels too controlled if he can't have them in his life? What is missing inside yourself that you feel you can't do better? What's his incentive to respect you if you don't respect yourself enough to insist on better from him?

C'mon, Jaded. My only advice is to realize that God made you for better than this. Start from that.

Trust me I am my own worst enemy and have beat myself up over my choice to give him one last chance. But I have decided that so I really just hoped to hear from anyone else that has decided to stick by their unfaithful spouse and get some insight on what is working for others. Thanks for your honesty, though.

Jaded:

I spent a few minutes thinking about you. I was captured by one comment you made.


What if indeed. And you haven't found what if yet? Again, I ask you what this man has that is of overriding importance that you will still deal with his otherwise worthless self?

Seriously Jaded, what kind role model is this man for his kids and YOURS? And please don't tell me that his hedonist side is hidden. Kids see EVERYTHING and make life role adjustments accordingly. Kids don't miss anything. Did you when you were growing up? If dad was banging his exes, wouldn't you have know it?

The man has the morals of an alley cat, period, the end. And what about your own morals? What kind of life model are you for your kids? Seriously!

I am not trying to disrespect you. That isn't what I do here. I am trying to understand how you could marry a man who is a serial adulterer, and does all that other stuff, with some expectation that he would be a good father. And please don't tell me he is: fathers provide role models and the one he is providing is just so not right.

I just don't understand. Help me on this Jade, I don't understand. I just simply do not understand.

Larry

I'm sorry, Jaded. Not sure what to tell you. Maybe some of the betrayed spouses have some better thoughts.

My wife stuck by me, but my affair was one-&-done. The very day I broke the news of it to her, when I begged her to please keep me, she nodded that she would, but she told me (direct quote): "Do it again, and you're out on your a$$." And I knew she meant it. To this day I know she means it. And that same day, same conversation, she also insisted that we go to marriage counseling, and I said "yes" to that without making her ask twice.

I think the advice in this for you is, set high standards for his conduct, and insist that they be met. Don't settle for second-rate treatment from him.

Jaded:

Ok, I went back and read your original post again.

Your question is how do you move on, right?

And my question in return is, simply; where do you want to move on to?

Larry

Two words:

LOSE HIM

He is honestly my best friend. And yes he has made some horrendous choices. And you are right that the children do know to some extent what has happened. But I guess I don't see what makes him more of an alley cat than some guy who sleeps with one woman repeatedly. Yes, both are guilty of acting like scumbags, but bad acts do not always equal bad people. My husband is a good person in more ways than not and he IS a very loving and devoted father. I will be the first to agree that he has made some epic failures but I still know him to be a good man.

Jaded:

I understand that you think he is a good man. Based on what you have told me I do not share your opinion.

I will tell you that your analogy fails the smell test. You are rationalizing. I am not asking that you compare him to some other brand of alley cat, that it is a straw man. I am asking that you compare him to a stand up guy who has honor, morals, scruples and stuff like that.

I ask again, where do you want to go?

Larry

Larry can I ask why you are on this forum? Are you the cheater or cheatee?

Jaded:

Why do you ask? I could be either. Take a look at the number of posts I have made. See when I arrived. I will tell you that I took a couple of years away from here and that I was at one time almost exclusively in the recovery forum.

I have been active on more than one forum in past years. I have lived a lot of life. Mostly I am known as a can opener. I try to get people to open up and tell us who they really are and what they think they want. This board, during its more active periods, is a collaborative effort, with people posting according to their own life experiences and their knowledge.

Mostly we are about emotional tools that are based on the concepts developed by Willard Harley, Jr. There is a low tolerance for emotional dishonesty. So far, I haven't called you out on anything, I have just made comment based on what you have said and asked a few questions. I picked at your husband a bit because of your own rather devastating description of his honor system or the lack of same.

I can only reflect back to you what you have detailed.

Now let's ask you again.

What do you want. See, it is impossible to answer your questions without some idea of your goals.

What kind of life partner do you want to be, what kind of life partner do you want to have? How do you expect to raise your children?

Not many people around on a very late Friday night. That might be for the best.

Larry

I noticed that you left. Oh well, bedtime anyway. Just so you know, we have had many people show up who are in relationships with serial adulterers. Heck, we have had serial adulterers show up as well.

So long as someone will be emotionally honest, read what is here to be learned, and open themselves up to constructive comments, they can be helped. Or those who associate with same can be helped as the case may be.

We cannot help you get somewhere if we don't now what you want and who you are. Who you are determines how you get where you want to go, the path you take. It isn't exactly the same for everyone because the starting point varies.

Simple, really. And all that just in case you come back and read.

Larry

What I want is not to have someone tell me how worthless my husband is, but to gain some insight as to how to make it work. That IS what I want and what I am determined to achieve. I will gladly answer your questions. I am not trying to hide from anything. As for what I want, I want to stay married to my husband and work to let go of my anger and fear associated with the betrayal.

As a recently BS I can tell you that it takes time, lots and lots of time to let go of the anger and fear. I am still at a point where I get angrier at times. Those are what I consider my obsessive thoughts.

I can understand where you are feeling that your WH is being bashed; put that aside for right now.

Focus on you! What do want, what are your values, what do you want your children to learn from you? Now do these things line up with maintaining this relationship?

Is your WH willing to put forth any effort in changing his behavior?

These are some of the questions I would be asking myself as part of my soul searching.

I too want my marriage to work out, however my WH was making choices that I could not live with and did not line up with my values and what I want out of this life. Which is why I am currently in Plan B.

I am so sorry that you find yourself here, I would start by reading many of the articles that you will find on this site and learning as much as you can. Get the book surviving an affair and read that as well.

Unfortunately you are in a difficult situation, the statistics are stacked against you. Most relationships that start as affairs do not last. And as Larry has stated it sounds as though your WH is a serial adulterer.

So, start by learning what you can, then start figuring out what you want; then do those ideas line up?

Not quite sure where you are coming from, Jaded. This statement that you made shows that you not only accept his adultery, you enable it. Why on earth would you take a road trip to visit one of your WH's exs, drink too much, get in a hot tub with her and others and then give her complete access to your drunken half naked WH who you already knew was a cheater?

Have you read the Basic consepts on the site or are you just looking for a magic pill to make you able to tolerate this kind of abuse for the rest of your life? I see no indication from your postings that your WH has had an epiphany and decided that his behavior is immoral, abusive and is destroying his W and his family. Has he acknowledged that he is a serial adulterer? Has he decided to change and work on the M? Is he repentant of his behavior?

Sorry but you let him know from the gitgo that you didn't see anything immoral about adultery by committing it with him. The dynamics of your entire relationship need to change if you want to save your M. I am with Larry on this one. Do you want a healthy, happy, loving, monagamous marriage? Does your WH also wish to achieve this? Or are you trolling to find people who have lived successfully with a cheater all of their M and can tell you how to tolerate it? The answers to those questions are very telling. Care to share?

God's Blessings,

Say

Thank you, I can now answer your question.

First of all, I didn't point out that in the arena of sexual irresponsibility your husband was worthless, you did. Please don't reflect that back on me. But the fact that you enumerated his activities and in fact enabled those activities, says a great deal about the internal conflicts that brought you here. See what I underlined.

Oops, did I say that?

You have said that you want to learn to live with it. Live with what? Which betrayal, yours or his? Do you want it to be okay that he has no morals, scruples or ethics and thinks that it is controlling for someone to suggest that what he is doing is wrong?

You have betrayed your internal conflict so it is possible for someone on the outside to understand your conflicts, while you are busy lying to yourself to make it something else. Probably not what you wanted to hear.

See, I could care less what your husband does. But you care.

See, those aren't my kids who are being influenced, they are yours.

See, it isn't me who is living with enabling adultery, it isn't me who left my husband to live with this guy, it is you.

See, it isn't me who is having all these internal conflicts looking for a solution, it is you.

You can run, but you can't hide, not from yourself, no matter how hard you try, it will out in some way, form or fashion.

You are here because? You know the answer to that question. Down deep inside, you know that right is right, and wrong is nobody. You justify and it doesn't work.

Your question centers around changing your perspective without acknowledging what your perspective really is. You would not have detailed the wrongness of your husband's behavior if it wasn't bothering you. You say you don't want someone telling you how worthless your husband is. But that is exactly what you did. Why? Because it bothers you.

You want to "Get over" his betrayal. Sorry, no magic wand there. You can continue to stuff it down deep inside and allow it to continue to eat at you, or you can do something about it. No magic wand.

Want to do something about it? Keep talking and keep posting, there are solutions here when you get in touch with what is really wrong, not what you say it is.

Larry