And PSU hasn't been back since that betrayal.

Larry - that tells you something about the impact of your deception here - regardless of justifications. A good man isn't here who makes a difference too - because of YOU.

Let me jump in here for just a quick second... to clarify a couple of things.

Larry did not email Dr Harley to complain about members. His thread of D/D was locked, he felt, before he had a chance to respond to some posts. He was edited for bringing up the subject again on another thread. So he emailed me, asking for the "Definition of an Affairage". As Admin, I told him I was not at liberty to advise or counsel. I suggested he write to Dr Harley. He did mention his previous problem on the forum as a way of explaining WHY he was emailing Dr Harley personally rather than posting on the forums.

After conferring with Dr Harley & the moderators, it was decided the best way Larry could "clear the air" was to post his own new thread. He could answer any questions & concerns if he felt comfortable doing so.

PLEASE remember!! This IS the internet!! Do NOT ask questions, provide links or voice concerns that reveal PERSONAL REAL LIFE info!!

Faithful


I saw no reason to repeat myself continuously in posts to tell everyone I had exercised bad judgment ten years ago. My history has been reviewed several times in the past. That there was enough there so those who wanted to dig up dirt could, says all that needs saying.

I was stunned to find there were people willing to believe straw men to bash me into oblivion. You do understand what straw men are, right?


There is more to it, but that is the base concept, often found in political circles and on the Internet in "Blogs."

Larry

I'm not an idiot, Larry. But thanks for insinuating that I am.

FTR Larry, I don't see any "staw men" in this. I only see your own duplicity with the posters of this board.

I am done posting on this thread.

Larry - your lack of empathy for PSU Biker is stunning.

You are in the shoes of the OM in his life, helping the XW keep his children away from their father.

And you can't understand why that would bother PSU? Or anyone else here? Instead you have to drag this topic out again to defend your defenseless position with regard to PSU and men like him who are fighting an uphill battle in the courts?

That doesn't bother you that he's not here posting anymore?

You have no feeling in that regard?

And instead of asking what to do to make amends, you defend, defend defend.

I'm done too.

I just hate assumptions. I have a friend of mine, who knows my personal history to the ninth degree. He posts on here from time to time. He called me after the unfortunate events that led to this thread.

He knows PSU and he said he was going to contact PSU and tell him him whatever I would ok telling him. I told my friend to tell PSU whatever he wanted, nothing held back. I haven't hear the results of that as yet, haven't asked.

I have a problem believing that I am THAT important to this forum that I could have THAT much influence on what PSU does or does not do. I almost NEVER posted to him. I do note that several folks went over to his thread and provided him with as much moral outrage as they could. And his thread was edited accordingly.

Larry

Ick!

Empathy Larry. Empathy.

disheartening response ...

No where in any of the information posted on this thread so far contradicts Dr. H's opinion that what you had was an affairage.

Dr. H says you were an OM. It really is that simple.

Dr. H implies that you interfered in another man's marriage and took his wife and children as your own. It really is that simple.

Anything added to these facts that I just stated is nothing more than a history rewrite. It really is that simple.

So far I see NO repentance, only justification. I would assume that Dr. H allowed you to reopen this subject in hopes that you might actually become a repentant man for having stolen another man's wife and family. This would allow you to move on and be an asset to his forum. Anything other than that is pure conjecture and history rewrite.

Larry, I know we've been talking off forum and I will not share what you've discussed with me; but you've not been repentant off the forums either. I cannot support you unless you come clean. This thread is not you coming clean. IMO this thread is you justifying your actions of the past by combining them with some perceived attack by Mr. and Mrs. W. IMO there was no attack, and I don't believe Dr. H's email supports it either.

Just my .02; but it really is that simple.

Please stop the history rewrite.

I am providing facts to refute straw men. I am offended by straw men, aren't you?

It is a straw man assumption that I had anything to do with PSU leaving this forum.

Where is the fact to substantiate that assumption?

You might also take a look at Justuss' post. The PURPOSE of this thread is so I could refute the false by providing access to the FACTS!

I have also chosen, for those who have carefully read what I have said, to also confess my own sins that I own. I have no intention of allowing others to confess sins they think I own which I in fact have no ownership of.

My kid needs attention. I will be back.

Larry

FWIW, believer, I see what you see.

Larry, while I have mixed feelings about your situation and the beginning of your relationship with your WW, I HAVE seen you take responsibility - and then a post immediately after that is raking you over the coals for not taking responsibility.

You repeat it - and it STILL isn't enough. It will never be enough for some.

These kinds of exchanges are why I don't post much anymore. I appreciate how you have handled what you have been dealt here.

Well said, wildhorses.

Larry, at best this was a Pyrrhic victory. At worst it was simply another venue for those who have issues with you.

I wonder how to reconcile Justuss's request


with some posters' need for absolute historical honesty. Has anyone given this any thought?

I look at it this way: I owe the people in my real life historical honesty; they are the ones I love and care for and with whom I spend my time. I don't owe posters on an internet forum anything of the kind. I make no secret of the fact that I am a FWW, but I don't go trumpeting it. If someone doesn't care for what I have to say, they are free to disagree with it or disregard it - it's that simple.

This seems like such a tempest in a teapot to me.

pk

Fantastically said, ITA.

The thing is B, Larry INVITED them to look it up. He said he had nothing to hide......so Mr. W wasn't being creepy, he was given permission to do this...


it started out on a thread on Historical Hoensty, where Larry had trouble understanding this concept, and even said that he could "poke holes" in Dr. H's theory of that........some of couldn't understand WHY he couldn't understand this.........

I would point out that what we read was a State Supreme Court decision - Larry has named the particular state in many of his posts - Both state and federal Supreme Court decisions are PUBLIC DOMAIN. It is simple to go to a state supreme court website and look up a case - You do not have to be an attorney to do so.

What sent our "baloney detectors" into overdrive and caused us to even bother looking it up, was Larry's declaration of "Btw, I'm not in an affair marriage" on a thread where no one had said a word about "affairages". That was puzzling. Never once have Mr. W or I felt the need to state "Btw, we are not in an affair marriage". That would be STRANGE. Sorta like me saying "I am not a baloney sandwich"...Why would anyone bother to do so unless somehow they were indeed a baloney sandwich??? Your words sent up the red flags, Larry. So there ya go.

Now, Larry, you actually told people on your thread to "go look it up on the web". [referring to the State Supreme Court Decision] It's pretty odd to cry foul when someone takes you up on that. Perhaps if you are concerned about people on a public forum doing what you directed them to do, um, I dunno, maybe you should reconsider your words of direction? I suppose you could ask Justuss to edit all of your posts where you mention the specific state.

Larry you keep talking about "straw man" arguments. I'm not sure how asking questions regarding the FACTS in a State Supreme Court decision qualify as such. Perhaps you consider classifying the BH in a sympathetic manner as such, since you continue to point out what an "abusive jerk" your victim [BH] is... You even go so far as to say he got what he "deserved". WOW.

It would be great if you could understand that the character of the BH IS NOT RELEVANT - Adultery is a black and white issue - ADULTERY IS ALWAYS WRONG.

After an affair, Dr. Harley recommends taking extraordinary precautions to protect against another affair occurring. He says that the conditions that led to the affair must be eliminated. Your affair with a married woman occurred because you were advising said married woman in crisis on an internet forum, correct? What is it you do here again? Advise married women in crisis, right?

I am sincerely praying for your repentance.

Mrs. W

Wildhorses


Thank you for your post. You have said what I was trying to say.

Now as for the quote above, oh man. You have mixed feelings? Thank you. Me too . . .

OMG, my feelings almost approached the old Christian flagellation routine. I have examined and re-examined what I did and what I didn't do to the point of obsession and depression. I have finally come to the conclusion that I did what I believed to be the right thing for the wrong reasons at a time, using the emotional tools I had then.

After my education here on MB, some by forum and some by Dr. Harley material on site and through books, I have a far better idea of relationships than I ever felt I needed to understand.

Which I guess is pretty typical of most guys.

If I knew then what I know now, it would have been a whole different story. Well, except I look at my son and think, "Yea, I guess my sorry mistakes had a purpose." And therein exists the conflicts of my mind. How can something so good come out of something so stupid and misguided? I guess only God has the answer to that one. And I have placed it in his hands.

I am truly sorry you have elected to not post very much. And I am even more sorry that you have elected not to post for the reasons given by you.

There are a few on here more than willing to admit my mistakes, the ones I made and the ones made up for me. I get it.

Larry

Not2


Thank you. Please provide the exact quote where I disagreed with Dr. Harley. If what I said would cause anyone to believe that dumb me would disagree with Dr. Harley, then I would be pleased with the opportunity to fall on that sword.

I seen a few on here disagree with the good doctor. Please be assured that I am not one of those.

I finally got Historical Honesty. The difficulty I had, I honestly had is because my brain is cluttered up with all this cultural stuff I study. I own personal HH. I was having difficulty understanding how it applies to our culture and I didn't know WHY I was having the problem. I asked for help, which finally degenerated to someone calling me dishonest.

At that point, my brain shut down.

Larry

Larry, I am surprised (but shouldn't be considering how you claimed you didn't "understand" Historical Honesty) at how you are COMPLETELY missing the point.

The very simple point is this:


*you were/are an OM in another man's M
*despite being here almost 5 years you are claiming you didn't know you were in an "affairage".
*You are claiming an innocent "mistake" in not understanding that when a person is MARRIED and one begins an AFFAIR with them, then proceeds to MARRY them, it is called an AFFAIRAGE.
*You are obviously sharp so it's hard for us to truly believe you never put two and two together.

We do not care ONE BIT about who posts here, whether they are a BS, WS, FWS...some of the best posters here are the FWSs...Mrs. W, tst, for example. No one cares one bit that they made horrific mistakes, what we DO care about is their frank honesty NOW and that they "get" what they did. The admiration for posters such as this is GREAT.

The problem is NOT that you were/are an OM...the problem is that it was never disclosed to the board. Period, end of story.

You are trying to make this into something it is not...it is NOT an attack on you as an OM, it is a baffled response from many of us that the full truth was never told about your background.

We like honesty here. It's that simple.

Right on, MF, that is exactly the way I also feel about it. The whole truth and nothing but the truth, esp. if you are in an affairage on a surviving an affair forum...