Oh, dear. I'm so, so sorry ((((8th)))). I don't know how to deal with this - maybe it's a generational thing but I've never been with a selfish lover so I probably won't be much help.

Sex, for men, CAN be nothing more than a physical need but it can also be an emotional one. Men just seem to disconnect the physical and emotional much easier than women - that doesn't mean that they can't connect the two back together.

As you work on falling back in love that connection will come for him, but I think it will actually take being in love for him to do that.

You don't have to stick around for his angry outburst. Before he even gets into his stride you need to get up and say you won't be yelled at, you have a right to feel used (because you were) and yelling won't make you feel any less used. Tell him that you are disengaging til he calms down. Don't respond in anger though. (boundary enforcement)

He's angry because he hurt you and doesn't want to do anything to AVOID hurting you, what he doesn't realize is he can't yell the hurt out of you. Of course you feel used - you pulled him into the bedroom expecting some satisfaction and intimacy, instead you were just a stand-in for a blow up doll.

Don't give up - there will be set backs along the way. Just keep going and I promise it will get better. The point is to fall back in love and you CAN do that- you have the tools laid out in front of you, you just need to dust yourself off, decide what you're going to do differently next time and charge ahead.

Thank you

Maybe it will be tomorrow but right now it just seems hopeless...

Next segment of the world turns .....

H didn't show up for MC tonight. I honestly didn't think he would.

Me & MC talked felt much better after I left. She had a good few insights. Suggested I didn't cut off all contact with him, since that is/was one of his major complaints. So I just sent him a text saying I'm here if he wants to talk. I loved him & good nite.

So I'm stepping back a little & giving him some space to work through his own feelings. And I will hope for the best.

Well to update on soap opera ..... found he has been reading my posts online.... Hi Honey !!!!

So anyhow we didn't have any contact until sunday. Spent last couple of evenings together.I can't seem to avoid relationship talk. Either it be plans of future or present. It's like a big elephant in the room & I can't ignore it. And it ends bad ....

Doesn't think MB is the answer , I have to change the way I am & how I react to things before he will even consider it.

On the LB book club thread EHG mentioned the concept of your love bank :

quote :Everyone buys the idea that negative things people do will cause a withdrawal in something that people would readily agree is like a bank account. Even people who don't believe in the MB concept, can accept most of the LB book, at least in terms of the negative effects.

But why is it so hard for those same people, who readily agree that negative actions cause withdrawals, to believe that when the bank account is full enough from positive actions, the feelings of love will be there? It's almost like the bank account has account limits in their minds.

When I explain this to people, such as my dad, he adopts this sort of worldly wistful tone that love is just...something special...and you once it's gone, baby, it's gone. My w believes the same. And so do her parents.

I wonder if the lack of believing in the positive side of the love bank concept seems to be what prevents lots of spouses from trying.

Is it unusual for someone to believe in the LB negative side of the bank account and simultaneously not believe in the positive side? I wonder why? quote

I wonder if my H believes this ..... MB to him is a dirty word to him right now so I may save this question for another time.

I talked to a Psychologist today. He chastised me because the power of negative thoughts in my brain is a well exercised muscle. I can extrapolate worst possible scenarios to the n'th degree in a fraction of a second.

But...

pulling the POSITIVE out of something is a weak pathetic atrophied resemblance of what might have been a muscle back in the mesosoic era...

So maybe it isnt unusual. How many people do you know who can easily spot why something is "wrong," but when asked to find something positive about the same statement have trouble?

My wife wants to leave me. It is very easy for the negative possibilities to be identified, but it wasnt till I tried to pull the positives out of it that I realized how much good could come of it:

1) I learn about myself and become a better person
2) She learns that she doesnt have to accept being taken for granted, and learns its ok to stand up for herself.

It was a lot of work to come up with just those 2 for me, because like many people I know, its not whats GOOD about something that pops out in your mind first. People you meet that DO think of the good things first are generally fantastic people you are happy to be around.

Its a muscle. Use it and it will grow and get easier.

Just wanted to update .... Me & H had a pretty good weekend.
Still not as much UA time as I wanted or hoped for but was decent.

Still MB is a dirty word for the moment but I have my plan in place & a goal to works towards. Just hope it comes together.

Reconizing more things I am doing wrong & will try to correct those actions.

Do have one questions for the heavy hitters thou.

Which is worse in this scenario ?

A situation your in fear of it turning into a DJ/AO but does O&H out way in the end ?

I am working on eliminating DJ/AO as soon as I reconize them.

Long story short was meeting @ lake this weekend for some UA & FC time. He was several hours late ran into several snags etc.
I was still under assumption he was stopping by lake & turning around & leaving for a couple more hours (were are 75 mins from lake one way) to change vehicles etc. ( Was using CO truck to bring things to lake had to change for personal vehicle )

So by the time he finally made it I was in a quite p*ssy mood & didn't give him a warm greeting on the verge of icebox cold when arrived. Needless to say he ended up not leaving again for whatever reason.

So there was no issue except for him wasting several hours because of ill planning & bad luck on his part.

Salavaged rest of weekend & was talking this morning & he commented on when asked what was wrong I just shook my head & didn't tell him.

I did not tell him what was wrong because I was afraid of no matter how I said it or explained how I felt it would come out AO/DJ.

So in this situation whats more important O&H or keep elimnating LB's ?

Especially when you do not know how to do it in a kind & thoughtful way.

Without him saying I'm done & leaving.

I wanted him there more than driving him away with a AO or DJ.

AO & O&H is major on his LB quiz.

So folks please some advice for this newbie who is trying to muddle their way thru !!!!!

O&H is always important. Do you feel like you could have said, "I'm irritated that you were so late because when you are late, I feel like I'm not a priority. I'm irritated at myself over that, because intellectually I understand why you were late and I'm okay with that, but I still feel the emotional part, and it's frustrating. It's frustrating to feel two different things, in my head and my heart. And I don't want to take out my frustrations on you."

Did he say that he wanted you to tell him what was bothering you? If so, believe him! Try to remember to keep it focused on your experience of whatever it is, your emotional response.

Not: "You're always late! You're so thoughtless!"
Instead: "When you're late, I feel unimportant."

The problem with not answering honestly when someone asks, "What's wrong?" is that we tend to guess what could be wrong, and that can be disastrous!

Thank you for responding CWMI. I do need to reconize each individual occurrence instead of generalizing.

It is one of my main complaints with frequency of this bad habit.

Too the point of me ruining many evenings etc because of this happening.

I am really trying to overlook this & fill my time with something else so I will not be *** waiting *** for him.

And accept I cannnot change this bad habit / he only can change this.

But yes you are so correct , that is exactly what it feels like. I am the last on his list. I can get in line behind evreything else in his life.

So getting off here for now. I tend to get negative thoughts about H when I am on my thread.

Welcome any advice & I will still be reading everyone's thread.

Just trying to get & keep a positive outlook

Hi 8th grader,

I just read your thread.

And I think that you have to take a slightly different tack with your husband.

My guess is that he wants admiration, SF and affection.

These are things I would work on offering him, and I would continue to focus on how to be more positive in general in your own mind.

You need some healing 8th, and you are just destroying your husband.

He WANTS to make you happy. He wants a divorce because he feels he can't succeed. You have to show him that you love him, and that he is doing things right, and you are proud and pleased and happy with him.

Stop arguing with him, stop crying about things--set your mind on the positive and be a positive place for him.

Appreciate him, encourage him, thank him, and be tender and loving to him.

And I think you need help dealing with your SF issues. You have had so many sexual partners, and so many of them bad, that now occassionally doing it to simply connect with, and please, your husband is distasteful to you.

You need help in this area, and I hope you are getting it.

In the meantime, treat him as fragile. He seems angry, but he is broken, and (unintentionally), YOU are the one who is breaking him.

((((8th grader)))))

Be at peace, and be kind to this man who has NOT divorced you--because somewhere in inside, he loves you. He just can't stand the hurt anymore.

Thank you Telly

I know you are right.

I'm jumping & I'm not touching the ceiling yet. I am continually missing it.

Tone of my voice, the look in my eyes, etc. (no matter what is coming out of my mouth) Is saying to him I hate him.

I'm really trying to put MB practices in effect but LB's just keep coming out. I do not even know when I am doing it.

Should I ignore his IB (texting) repeatly have asked/demanded you name it. For him not to do when we are together since we do have such limited time together.

Every time I see that phone in his hand or hear the message ring go off it's like a lighting bolt thru me. I feel the surge of emotion.

Deep down I know he loves me but not having access to his e-mail accounts, phone logs, pc logs etc. Makes me really question if he still is continuing the EA or is planning to have a physical affair.

His laptop (Co owned) he doesn't have when we are together. Both phones are on him 24/7 ~ Company owns one cell phone / the one he uses for texting is technically owned & paided for by a customer. ( his went dead at her business & she gave him one of theirs saying he might as well use it she has to pay for line anyway. Yes, he has a tendency to get very close with his customers. Sub: son / listener , etc. That's how he increases his sales by becoming buddy,friend,child there at a moments notice to give them what they need to make a sale)

I'm not saying he is playing them & being dishonest far from it he considers them friends/ not a customers, but he has found this is the way to build the account up to be lucrative.

He has given me his passwords when I have asked (with the you do not trust me ??? he has given me wrong passwords in the past purposely & thought it was funny ) but it always has been when I do not have anything to write them down with or I'm in the middle of something else. ( I use the same passwords over & over because I can't even remember my own lol)

I do not know how to stop my reactions or the look in my eyes.

It breaks my heart him showing indifference to my hurt feelings or his walking out because he is not dealing with this right now.

I have a good day or 2 & the negativity comes right back.

By something he has said or done.

He is in Reno for the next week
maybe very limited contact will ease the situation.

I do not know how to stop ...... I love him with all of my heart but I do not know how to break thru his wall & work on this together.

Cannot give actual convo's we speak by mostly phone or in person. So I do not want to give break downs of those because what is actually coming out of my mouth maybe different then what is in my head & how I am preceiving it.

ie I think I'm being kind & thoughtful & he thinks I'm controlling,condescending,hateful.

so any ideas ???? Sure could use some new ones !!!!

Sorry didn't mean to ignore your point on SF. I am trying to incorporate that work into the MB stuff also.

I'm realising I have a lot of hangups when it comes to SF.

We are not seeing the MC together anymore. She has in turn became my IC.

She has helped me more individually than as a MC.

She sucked as a MC.

She feels I need to continue with her to work on my own indiviual issues with past childhood etc. I'm sure my sexual hangups will be addressed also.

No matter how embrassed I am in discussing them.


Also I am speaking with Dr J Tuesday evening maybe she can give me some clues.

Examples & scenarios are the only way I seem to get anything thru my head.

Thanks again ! I need several guiders along this journey ....
Also thanks for the hugs I really needed them.

No one in IRL to discuss this with except for DD & IC.

Both are on Vacay for awhile.

I just wanted to say ......

I'm not looking for sympathy or the easy way out for everyone else to do the leg work for me, but a way to correct my actions & change my outlook.

Obviously what I am doing is not cutting it.

So sorry if anyone has precieved it this way.

I am sorry you have been thru so much. From the beginning someone should have told you to abstain from sex or always use birth control. Instead you got pregnant early. At that time, if someone cared for you they could have told you to get an abortion. What happened there?

Anyway, from the beginning when you started having sex, you had the wrong relationship with sex. You had the wrong idea about what sex was for. Since you had sex but did not enjoy it.

Did you think sex was for one of these reasons :

1. Pleasing men
2. Having men like you
3. Just like any other activity
4. Being popular
5. Getting attention
6. Rebelling against authority
7. Sharing something with men
8. What men want
9. Unable to say no to men
10. What you should do with men
11. Instead of conversation with me
12. A way to get close to men.

You could have been molested when you were very small.

Your marriage is affected by how messed up you are in the sexual realm (not your fault) and by the child you had at a young age,

I think if you heal from some of this sexual damage where you became ONE with 1000 men, and messed up your sexual responses and your sex gears in your head, then you can and will want to have more sex with your husband.

I am amazed you did not have 5 more kids, good going at stopping at just the one!

Relax and heal from the sex stuff and other childhood dysfunction and maybe you will be able to show your husband you are different and he will come back to you.

Good luck in your healing~!

I have this theory about one of the things that changes after a women has a child. Its based on natural behavior tendencys not on decisions women consiuosly make and of course will not apply to everyone

Woman can tend to be nurturer types. Men like to be fussed over and especially young men seem to need the reassurance that they are the center of the universe to thier girl.

This works well untill a child comes along, then the attention she used to lavish on the man goes to the child.

That along with the daunting reponsibilities having a child brings can make the man feel unloved and small.

Again that is my theory and its based on natural reactions so I don't know how much applies to your sitch

Im sorry 8thG I have not read thru the whole thread and probably should keep my mouth shut but i read your first post and it seemed H was throwing a fit and wasn't co-operating so i wanted to throw out a line of support for you.

Ok bubbles you made me laugh ! You must really think I have the power ! For 1000 men reallly I did not have that much energy or free time. lol

It was more like 13 or 14 in my entire life way too many in my book still.

I was told about birth control but chose to ignore it.

I actually got PG my 2nd or 3rd time. It was in a couple of weeks span of time so don't really know can't say for sure exactly when but it wasn't like we had been doing it for awhile & decided to take a chance.

No, I have really bad luck & it happened pretty quick.

The 5 kids thing .... could of happened but god intervened & I got a really bad infection after DD was born & went into my tubes. So no more .... just the beautiful dark haired / blued eyed daughter I always wanted & dreamed about.

Looking into her big blue eyes when they layed her on my chest made all of the pain & being alone worth it in the end.

Now for what I was or wasn't told.....

I was told guys only wanted in your pants.

I was told they will tell you any lie to get you into bed.

I was told guys only wanted one thing.

I'm sure there is a bunch of others but those stand out in my mind.

When my mother found out I was PG her exact words were you made your bed now you can sleep in it.

She was actually my rock thru the whole thing. I was so ashamed. I didn't want to be seen out in public. Hung my head when I would walk to school.Knowing everyone was pointing & talking behind my back.

I lost most of my current friends. 1 or 2 stood by me or hung out with me on occasion.But mostly I was alone in the journey. It was like I had the plague.

I know I do have hang ups about SF actually have way more than I orignally thought after being on here for awhile.

Everything you listed I believed at one point & time.

I will not adresss the molestation thing on here. I do not need to dredge up the past to work on my future on here.

Thank you sorted ..... I appreciate it.

I do think when I stopped giving him all of my attention & hanging on to his every word is when major cracks started showing up. That was way after our DD thou.

Telly : I'm still unclear on admiration some examples please.

Anyone examples ????? I'm a little slow that way they tend to sink in better.

Ah examples lol well I will let the ladies help you with those because they know how us boys are.

I will tell you this though and it was something that made me happy. Seeing my wife happy, a note in my lunchbox with a lipstick kiss on it, shameless bragging about me when I knew it was overblown.

Those things were as good as sex sometimes meaning a much more spiritual connection was being made when sex was not an option,(work, sleep or other schedules).

Of course that was in the good years..


Hang in there

I've found that really thinking over everything my husband does in his life that I have found a hundred reasons to really admire him. So I tell him. Everytime I look at him and think something positive I say it. Thats a big part of O&H too!

Thanks Rosy & Sorted ....

I guess why I'm having so much trouble with the admiration is because he honestly hasn't done anything I can admire him for.

Anything in the past I could admire him for has turned on me some way shape or form.

Example : His financial sense ..... him making me feel stupid in his eyes when it comes to money.

Example: him being dedicated to his job ..... he is currently a workaholic & he has traded me for hours/sales/customers/$$$ what have you.

Example : Mechanical skills ...... I've needed a belt replaced on my car for good part of a year. Belts sitting in the gargage on the shelf.

Example: he is extremely smart ..... talked down to me or treated me as if I was too dumb to understand what he is saying. Asked him to explain what he means "oh come on you can't be that stupid."

Example : he is a good father ..... in turn makes me feel like I'm a bad mother because I didn't handle something the way he
thought it should be done.

I'm not saying he is a monster by no means or he purposely does these things. But I can't admire someone that makes me feel like crap.

I can think of a few postives but not many....

I am begining to realise I DJ in my head more than anything something will remind me of something he could of , would of , should of done.

And from there it's down hill. Maybe he is right & there is too much hurt to move forward ...... Sorry very negative tonight.

Still being negative today ..... Have a appt with DR J tonight maybe she will be able to change my attitude.

How can I stop Djing in my head ? I'm trying to change my thought process but the littlest thing will remind me & like I said before down hill from there. I'm already in the down hill spiral before I even realise what I am doing. Trying to go back to a postive is almost impossible.