Interesting tidbit:

Last week my FWH and I were out on our weekly Harley ride/date. The TV was on at the bar we were stopped at and Jesse James's OW was being interviewed (I didn't even know who she was). She was saying she thought she was owed an apology.

My H disgustedly looked at the TV and said "Lady, you should just go GFY (and he NEVER talkes like this)...the only one who is owed an apology is Sandra Bullock."

He then looked at me and said "These OW make me sick. Same with Tiger Wood's OW. Who the h*ll do they think they are that THEY deserve an apology? They knew EXACTLY what they were getting into and they signed up for it. The only victims here are the betrayed wives".

I just smiled at him and gave him a big hug. He thinks of the OW as nothing more than a manipulative, selfish and cruel homewrecker and one day you will think the same of the OM, Butterfly. Because that is exactly what they are, nothing more.

Butterfly,

I am going to go against the grain of a few of those who have been responding to you here, and that is going against those who are much more intellegent in this than I am.

I think they have been letting you off the hook.

Your husband is either a saint (as you say it) who should be cannonized tomorrow, or he does not know how to relate to his wife. If my wife gave any evidence that she cared about another man's feelings or his state of mind at the Expense of mine, I would be damned furious, and so would I think most men.

I am not normally harsh here, but from my standpoint - am male's - do look in the dictionary for the definition of EXCLUSIVE. It Does mean no other partner in a marriage.

I have to say this but I give you like a .007% chance of having a happy marriage, or any decent marriage at all. You have ignored much advice on here. I am NOT qualified to give advice per my own situation in terms of infidelity, but ya know what, she was at least honest in what she told me and we do still have a life together - 41+ years.

Good luck.

Tom

No, I don't think he was a person of integrity or acting selflessly. And neither was I...It took both of us to hurt our families this way.


Yes, I know that.


I was selfish and thinking only of me and my needs and how to meet them. I know that now, but I couldn't see it then. That's my fault and nobody to blame for this but me.


I understand and I agree.


I do recognize this and accept that the selfishness and the choices we made were evil. The things are did are inexcusable and I honestly wish I could turn back time and make the right decisions - to talk to my husband about our marriage and my needs instead of going somewhere else to meet them.


I am trying to be a better person and a better wife. I don't know when I will begin to see myself as a good person but I am using all my efforts to get there.


Thank you for sharing Glove...I am sure it was hard for you to say some of that. And you (and the others here) are helping me, so thank you. I was selfish, dishonest, without integrity, and not special. And some other words that aren't appropriate to use here. I'm seeing that in myself and partially in OM. It is easier for me to self criticize than to criticize OM but I am no longer wanting to see him or help him. I just want to do what is right for my husband and marriage now. Whatever OM needs now, he has to get from his wife and family and I can't help him. I have to help my family and me --- and he can't help with that either. I spent the weekend with my husband and our daughter. We had some time just for the two of us and time for all three of us together. It was healthy and good. I feel I have closed the door on looking back at the affair in a positive light. But there is still alot to be done, and I'm finding new ways to cope and do those things that my husband needs from me.

I am getting there. Thank you for showing me how different the perceptions can be while still in a fog and when looking back more clearly.

I think of myself as that manipulative, selfish and cruel homewrecker every day. I am as despicable as those that are now in the news. The only difference is that I wasn't with someone famous. But that hatred and sickness for those women is what I feel about myself too....I understand.

I don't think anyone is letting me off the hook. I have been told how wrong I was and I accept that completely.


I didn't mean to portray that my husband wasn't furious. He is furious, sad, angry, frustrated, betrayed, disgraced, hurt, ashamed, embarrased, feeling used and abused, emotionally beaten down, demoralized, isolated and humiliated. He feels violated and wrong. He wants at times to just scream at me and tell me how awful i was. He wants to make me see how my choices affected so many more than just me, and he is angry at how those choices now affect our daughter. I can't do his emotions justice in the way I try to describe him, but after reading some of the posts here from BH, BW's, his emotions are the same as many of them.

But he also loves me --- not just that feeling of "being in love" but that he made the choice to love me, and he has reviewed this situation internally and decided for himself that he wants to continue to choose to love me. He wants to make our marriage stronger and recommit ourselves to each other. He wants to stand by me as I work through this and he wants to remind me that I was a good person - and I can still be that again, if I want to and try. He wants to work together to bring us to a better place. And he wants to forgive me, although it will take time and he hasn't yet. He wants to trust me, but that will take even longer. But I do describe him as a "saint" because as much as I hurt him, he still wants all of that. He still makes the choice every day to love me - without loving my actions or the consequences of them.


That's harsh Tom. I think that you are judging this as an outsider. You can see what I post here but you aren't in the relationship, so - with all due respect - you don't know. And I know that if I accept that it's impossible, it will be. If I try with all my actions, honesty now, and with all my heart and mind, that we have a chance. And I will keep that positive attitude. In 31 years I hope to say that my husband and I are in a healthy 41 year marriage and have enjoyed our lifetime together. We are a long ways from that and there is alot to repair. But I do still have hope and I do still believe it can be possible ---- if we both want it and are willing to work for it. And from my perspective I am, and at least right now, so does he.

You're gonna make it, Butterfly! Beautiful, heartfelt, honest post.

God's blessings,

Say

I think everyone is telling you great advice, and I think, in my opinion, that you are starting to see the wrongs and work towards making things right. I think you have a lot more chance than Tom seems to give you. I've said this on another WS thread, but I would kill to have my WH as repentant as you. The fog takes time to lift, but you are starting to have a slight bit of clarity even in the fog.

Keep working, keep getting words of wisdom and advice from here. Keep understanding that your H does love and care for you, even in the face of all the hurt and shame and anger. Maybe I'm naive, maybe I haven't had enough experience here or in life, but you seem ready to do this, to commit fully. Keep going.

I concur with ABR that you have more chance. You are starting to see things clearly, and you are taking the right actions. Those are huge steps! Keep walking down that road and eventually when you look back you won't recognize the person you see back there!

Tom:

Have you LEARNED ANYTHING being here?

Where in the world did you get that crazy .007% chance number?

The only true statement and one that makes sense from your post is this one:


Maybe you should think about that next time before you post.

B10 is wayward. And working hard to fix herself. Sorry that your not getting that, or whatever is screwed up in your sitch.

But B10 appears to be trying. She has gotten PLENTY of 2x4's here, but they were always followed up with solid advice.

LG

Just to be clear from the advice I'm hearing:

all guys want to get you in bed?

I don't understand the Affair down thing. Does that mean all WS affair down?

Is Butterfly10 trash? Just sounds like she made a grave mistake, to me...

Have you read Dr Harley's basic concepts, and his Q&A columns about infidelity?

Are you dealing with an affair?

It does work both ways. What is your point? The discussion is about butterfly's feelings for OM. Posters are explaining to her that the glow she sees around OM is a facade.

Not all men want to get you into bed, but if a man wants to get a married woman into bed (even if he luuuuvs her), he is not a good man

Yes, anybody who has an affair only does so after they find someone low down enough to mess with a married woman - so that is affairing down

No Butterfly is not trash. But someone who is cheating is not just a good poor soul who had an oops. A person who is cheating is a liar, an adulterer, selfish, deluded, and not a good person at all at that moment. I know because I used to be one. It isn't a grammar error, it's horrible, self-centered abuse. The reason Butterfly has a chance is because she sees that. She isn't trying to gloss over the filth by calling it a euphemism.

There are no "unique" affairs. They are all inexcusable. And then only way to fix them is to stop, tell the truth, and make it right.

Hi Butterfly,

Yes, I was harsh, I admit it, and I apologize. You are right. No one else can really know anything about the relationship between any two people.

The reason I posted the .007% is that it just appeared to me that from your earlier posts you might have been taking his reaction for granted. That was ridiculous on my part. Your last post however, is heart-rendering. I am so convinced that you really do realize what you have to do, are truely remourseful, and that you are already doing the right things. E.G., spending this past weekend with your family.

You made a profound statement in that You realize your husband made a choice - "that he wants to continue to love me". In my situation it took me awhile, thru the anger, shame, withdrawal and disengagement from her, to come to my senses and to want our lives together to continue (Our marriage) despite her decision. She helped me tho too. She just simply told me one day that she wanted to be at my side, and she simply has demonstrated that. Not that I don't now and then react and resent still. It's like they say a rollercoaster. Her reaction tho of Not reacting and for her just being silent and letting me express and vent without any recriminations on her part, mainly in terms of the affair or our past or her dissatisfaction with me have encouraged me to never want to lose her and to do everything I can to improve me!

Oh well, my analogy again...she was my first choice! Like a first draft choice in the NFL. After X number of years of marriage, she did not make a mistake, rather she consciously decided to block me out of her life and have an affair. Do I want to learn what led to it, Yes. Do I want to rehash it , No. Do I want to retaine my first choice in my life..Yes. That is my decision. She made a decision to become an "addict' for awhile. Do I want her on my team still, Yes!

So, Butterfly, in the coming months (maybe years) you will have to act so much like a dedicated wife And a dedicated coach.

I am glad you continue to post here.

I agree with others here, that when the time comes I believe it will be helpful for your husband to post here on his own thread. If you two are truely in sync, I believe it will be helpful.

Thanks,

Tom

Hi again at the expense of annoying you,

There is something that I forgot to include in my last post to you and that is, that I really do feel that You are His #1 draft choice. Okay, I know the analogy again,,*s8* but I feel that is something that would complete my last post to you.

I do honestly know when I post here it is mainly from motivational, and from life experience, and not necessarily the specifics of the techniques of MB. But I do belive they dovetail. That is just me.

I have not said this in any of my posts here to anyone, but one of the highlights of my life was way back in 1963 when as a sports reporter on the the U. of W Cardinal I wrangled an interview with a few of the green bay packers back then. It was like mid season in Oct. of that year. Guess who greeted me at the gate to the practice field. Yep him. He finished practice and then invited me to his home. When I got there I was so excited I totally left my gf in my car at the time becasue he was standing at the door of his home and just went up to get the interview. That almost lost me the interview because he was totally turned off that I had not brought her up to the door, and he told me to bring her in. Long and short, Vince Lombardi and his wife went out of their way to serve us supper, and he allowed me to interview him for half and hour. In our interview he taught me more on how to love and to motivate than anyone I had ever known, including my parents. He would have made a tremendous marriage counselor!

Sometimes, Butterfly, you have to reach back on who helped shape your opinions and values.

Besides all the good advice here obviously, you and your husband might also want to buy and read the newest book on Lombardi called "Me and Coach Lombardi". I have read excerpt and it is inspiring and awesome.

Thanks,

Tom

Yes, I do believe that I am going back to my values and moral compass. Somehow the needle on my original moral compass must have gotten stuck somewhere - maybe huge magnets from the aliens that many say their WS's wer possessed by. I think I'll have to buy a new compass, but I know what I need now and I'll make sure this one can withstand any magnetic pull.

Butterfly, what exactly are you doing to help your M heal?

Are you focusing on avoiding LBers?
Are you meeting each other's ENs?
Have you written up your list of EPs?

These things will help your H heal and they will help your M recover.

Butterfly,

to follow on to what MF asked,

What ARE your husband's top 5 ENs?

What are yours?


List, please...

Here's the thing Butterfly;

Your needle didn't get stuck.....

YOU took your moral compass out of your purse, threw it on the ground and stompped on it!

It was your choice to destroy the compass that's now broken!

You will need a new one! You don't get to buy it!

When you focus on cleaning out all of your H's wounds and treating him with consistent protection and care, a new compass will be available to you again.

Only after the hard work!

When you have worked the MB Program, as designed, this new compass will be better than any you have used to guide youself in the past.