I would like your opinions on this. I am seeing a personal therapist as well as the marriage counselor with my husband.

In a session with my therapist, she asked me "How do you feel about marrying someone who is beneath you?"

I questioned this because I don't feel that way (although I've heard the question many times before from various sources). I was questioning to see if the therapist sensed that I was projecting this type of thought process subconsciously which doesn't seem to be the case. I believe this (that I married "beneath me") is the therapist's personal opinion based on societal norms.

In order to comprehend this, you may need this detail that the therapist was referencing.

Work / Professional

* I have a college degree and a professional career outside the home in a major corporation. From a societal, work perspective I am an accomplished, successful businesswoman. I work a more "typical" schedule consisting of office work during the standard workday Monday through Friday.
* My husband runs his own business as a DJ providing music for people's private parties, wedding receptions, and corporate picnics. Since this is a different type of work, he works on Saturday evenings predominately. The work can sometimes be unpredictable in terms of stability. He makes money doing this work and takes a great deal of pride in the level of professional services he provides for his clients. However, his income from this job doesn't support our family financially and is used for our "entertainment, discretionary" spend rather than for the necessary bills.

Our strengths:
* My husband's strengths are emotional intelligence, compassion, parenting, emotional stability, and similar types of attributes.
* My strengths are "book" intelligence, financial planning and management, and similar types of attributes.

There are more things I could list but this gives you the gist of what I'm saying.

I think that our balance of different strengths actually complement each other in the marriage. However, society tends to think of success as that in a workplace, especially for men. So, my husband's strengths don't fit that mold of what society expects.

However, I don't think that makes him "beneath me" or less successful. It just means success for him looks different than many others. I am not "better" than him because I'm college educated or have a professional career. His ability to relate to people is amazing. When our daughter needs someone to help her with emotional matters, being concerned about a friendship, learning how to relate to others, or trying to express her emotions effectively, my husband is an excellent teacher - in words and actions. Those to me, make him in some ways, a "better" person than me. Not to mention the circumstances that brought me here. Aside from this, I don't believe fundamentally that any one person is "beneath" another.

So, that's a long winded explanation to ask this question:

I am considering two options:
(1) telling the therapist that I don't agree with this comment or thought and that I would expect that she not convey this type of opinion any further in our sessions.
(2) finding a new therapist who does not feel this way nor express it in our sessions.

I do firmly believe (as I know at least some of you do) that if you repeat or focus on negative thoughts, the negative thoughts become negative actions which breed the negativity. In a stage where I am trying to rebuild the love and committment with my husband, I need positive thinking instead including thoughts that bring me to a better place in terms of my relationship. I do not want someone else telling me that my husband doesn't deserve me and I don't think it is helpful to our marriage.

What are your thoughts? Am I exaggerating this too much? Should I be considering another angle here? Would you recommend one of the two options above, or something different?

I have a 3rd option. Do something more productive for yourself and get a pedicure. A pedicure is much more beneficial for your marriage because it relaxes you and doesn't waste your time rooting around for ways to denigrate your husband. This exercise does absolutely nothing to create romantic love in your marriage. It is a waste of time and a collosal waste of money.

Rather, I would focus my time on restoring your marriage and leave the personal counseling to those who really need it. You have more pressing issues to deal with right now, such as a CRUMBLING MARRIAGE.

How much are you paying for this nonsense? In my town a good pedicure runs about $35 and for about $5 more you can get those little jewel doo-hickeys pasted on your toes. That would be a much better use of your money.

Nothing that your IC has recommended above looks like a PLAN to create a romantic marriage and BUILD compatibility. She is focusing on differences and trying to foster COMPETIVENESS between you and your H. That does nothing to create a compatible lifestyle.

Most counselors don't have the slightest idea how to save a marriage or how to create romantic love and most don't even believe that is possible. I would wager this IC is no different.

THIS is what will turn your marriage around, Butterfly: Romantic Love: Is it a Realistic Goal for Marriage Therapy?

I must say that I "TOTALLY" agree with MelodyLane on this one, your IC is doing nothing "worthwhile" towards building your marriage but, moreso, focusing on doing just the opposite; (fostering competiveness between you and your spouse is FAR from a relationship builder).

Heed MelodyLane's advice and refer to the link that she left for you (the Romantic Love one) and you will likely find that "real" folks (like MelodyLane) often know more than highly paid IC's do!

I am not anti-IC, but any therapist who asks these kinds of demeaning questions knowing you are in the midst of trying to restore your M is not helpful, IMO.

I Have a list of questions I ask IC's not that is on my laptop at home, and if the answers aren't what I want to hear, I don't go there. I'll try to find it if you want.

If you don't mind finding that list Luriossi, I would appreciate it.

I am going to find a new therapist but I don't want to invest more time and energy in another "wrong one" if I can prevent it.

Hi Butterfly,

I didn't even realize you had posted this until I went back to look for a post from NLG, and saw this one.

This question of your's I feel qualified to comment on.

I am in total agreement with what Melody and others have said here.

My wife has been in IC and we have been in MC in our past due to two things: a) her manic depression, and b) my post-rehab for alcohol abuse treatment in the early 90s. We had a really good counselor for the second reason, but two really bad counselors for the first reason. My wife eventually agreed. I so agree with what TandC said. Those two counselors seemed to try to create a 'completitive' situation between my wife and I. I think they did this to 'create' a need for us to continue with the counseling.

Just a few suggestions:

1. Search for a PhD. They have gone thru extensive training and education. Most anyone with and MS can be licensed as a 'counselor'. They do not have the training, esp those from small colleges which grind these people out every year.

2. Ask questions before you select someone. Ask especially if they have dealt Extensively with situations that you want to have addressed. If not cross them off your list.

3. In the first session don't be afraid of asking the counselor what their stance is on marriage, family, moral values, etc. You are hiring them so they deserve to be interviewed by you for the job you are hiring that person for. If they are vague or indignant, cross them off you list.

4. Determine if the counselor has a directive or non-directive approach. This simply means that non-directive couselors are coaches - they will let you talk and then advise. Much like here at MB. Directive counselors will just sway you to talk according to their terms. It sounds like you had a directive counselor if she introduced that "you married beneath you". Non-directive counselors are much less judgemental.

5. Have you read Dr. Harley's article entitled "How to Find a Good Marriage Counselor"? If not, that may help you because I also think that advice would apply to an IC.

6. Have your H evaluate as well. Char and I did discuss how I felt about the person and if I felt it was helpful. You may be in IC, but this is still intimate information that your H needs to know, and also needs to comment on. You could ask him to attend at least one early session jointly, as there are no secrets in a marriage. My wife often told me what she said about me in regard to our marriage and me when she had individual sessions.

Butterfly, there are probably others here who could advise you better, but I am very sensitive on this subject because of our own experience. Buying into a counelor, in my opinion, is a lot like buying a used car..*s* Do your reseach well.

You seem such a motivated, dedicated woman who wants to truely rebuild her marriage. Please do search very skeptically and objectively for your new counselor.

The Best,

Tom

Fire This Counselor! Today!


Eliminate ALL IC!


You ran over your H with a Mack Truck and want to talk to your counselor about how YOU feel...... Do you see how silly that sounds?


Call The Harley's Coaching Center and schedule a block of appointments with your H.... Today!

I agree with Tom's very comprehensive list for attributes related to a therapist. I have found that finding a therapist that you click with can be tricky. I also think that therapy can be very beneficial if you find a therapist that you click with and are prepared to do some serious introspection.

I don't know why you didn't just address the question when she asked it. She could have asked you for a couple reasons that I can think of. She either asked the question because she feels that way, or she asked the question to see how you responded, you may in fact feel this way and don't realize it.

I hope you can find some solution to your problem and just be upfront with your therapist.

Folks,

Butterfly doesn't need to click with some therapist....

Nor does she need the Psycho-Babble crap of introspection....

Her selfish introspection already led to an affair. Seeking introspection while leaving her victim lying on the floor DYING from the mortal wounds she caused will not lead her to some epiphany.....

She needs to click with her H

She needs to click with her marriage!

Hi tst,

I do agree that she should fire her current counselor as I stated in my post to her. (by the way, I started this post an hour ago and then just left the screen and login open so I am not sure it is going to register now, my son came over). I do not agree with your comment to her.

Butterfly, I will address this part to you:

A blanket statement to elimminate all IC is inane. There are good ones, especially those with PhD's.

A derrogatory remark as in "ran over your H with a mack truck" is totally irresponsible. Especially in view of your honestly and your efforts. You do not kick someone who is down and trying to get up.

I do not know who tst is, nor do I really care. The only thing I advise you is to discriminate. That is what I think Melody was advising you in a much more caring way. She is damn sharp. She did not say anything like tst did.

tst, if you can't handle your one-sided bitterness for whatever reason, please do NOT transfer you sitch onto an innocent person here. In the words of John Wayne...Do You Read! And please, even if you feel the inclination to , do not ever post on my thread!

Butterfly AND Melody, just simply a prayer for both of you tonight. Lots to pray for.

Thanks,

Tom

Butterfly, I'm curious: How much time are you spending in MC w/ hubs, and how much in IC?

My wife & I were very fortunate to have stumbled upon a couples counselor who was a proponent of MB principles. She prescribed for us to read SAA, and that helped get us headed to recovery & got me on the path toward geting my head squared away. It gave my wife & me plenty to talk about, and it also gave me plenty of nuggets for my own self-guided introspection. However, from what I've read, many counselors know nothing about MB, or they choose not to use its principles, or they don't buy into them. So proceed with them at your own risk!

MC, IC... jeez, that's a lot of time spent in counseling, isn't it? Along lines of tst's observation, it's really, really crucial at this stage for you two to be spending time together as a couple, including a significant portion of that time NOT talking about the A. Let's see... you're a career woman, you've got a kid, and you're in MC, and there are only 168 hours in a week, and you've gotta eat, sleep & bathe once in awhile... And at this early stage, you also probably oughtta be thinking about minimizing your time spent apart from your husband, simply for his peace of mind. So, how're you gonna make this all work? Are you getting your 15-20 hours per week MINIMUM recommended UA time with hubs? (Careful: Not all time with hubs qualifies as "UA" time, per the link Mel posted on your other thread.) Please answer. If the answer is "No", then you ain't got time for IC.

And you never answered me from your other thread: Are you reading Surviving an Affair?

Tom, believe me, tst is much nicer and more caring than me, BY A MILE. He says nice things like your victim was "hit by Mac truck." I tell em much worse than that, because it's true!!

And tst is not bitter, he is a RECOVERED wayward husband so he knows what he is talking about. He has done a phenomenal job making amends for his crimes. He has also been to a MB weekend and knows this program inside and out. He is one of the good guys, Tom, and has a WHOLE LOT to offer any new wayward spouse. Please be nice to him, he is an asset to this board.

p.s. instead of emitting carbon emissions at a "counselors" office, why not do something productive like get a pedicure or go out for a romantic dinner? Flapping your gums in an IC's office is a DIVERSION and distraction from resolving the real problems here.

hahahahaha

Mel nicer than TST

hahahahahahahahahaha

I still wonder....how can you fix a car when all you have in the shop is broken parts?

I guess you can because somebody with a fancy degree says so....but the guy with the ASE cert will tell you that the parts need to be good.

Shaddup, you foreign devil!!!

Tom, I do not share your seemingly blind devotion to Ph.D.s. I know too many (my four-times-married cousin is one).

Very often

Ph.D. = "Piled Higher and Deeper"

Not to pick on those of us with doctorates - but I have one and so does my WH - AND HE JUST HAD AN A, lost his job because of it.....

So I guess in our house, they make 50% of us smarter!

Hi Melody,

I apologize to both you and tst. I know that this is the X'th time for me apologizing here. For me, being new here, it is apparent to me that I should not comment to other members at my stage of recovery unless I know what they have gone thru and really know them as the person they are. The bottom line is that I simply have not been here long enough to recognize those who are sincere and those who are not. At my stage here I have to confess that I can be duped into trying to help, (e.g., Bingo, NLG, and Butterfly), all of who I have posted to.

I respect you enough from what I have seen of you that I would really love Char to post to you about us and her feelings . She is not computer literate, and she is still in the nursing home. If I could encourage her, and help her to post here confidentially to you, I think simply that would be an additional help to her.

Take care you...

Tom