what you said!!!!!

Well, didnt you guys hear the little part at the end of the wedding ceremony that said "or until you meet someone you think is better".

That was in there, no?..... Well thats what these waynerds heard anyway.

This is one of the MOST CRITICAL points for ALL people to understand�that includes WSs, BSs, divorcees, singles, never-marrieds�everyone. Few people, myself included in the na�ve past, have a realistic grasp of the �falling in love� (FIL) concept, implications, and process UNLESS they have done some serious and mature study.

FIL has been romanticized in Western culture to the point of god-like status. The assumption that someone �can�t help themselves� or �cannot choose� when/if/with-whom they FIL is so deeply ingrained and idealized that the FIL-individual is reduced to a pawn, powerless to make voluntary decisions and absolved of any responsibility for the actions & choices that led to that point (consider the Roman mythological image of the playful, winged cherub, Cupid, who darts his unsuspecting �victim� with a �love arrow�, rendering him/her completely under a �spell�). It is this widely-accepted falsehood that is frequently cited by WSs and their apologists as a justification for why an affair can be �understandable� and even �justly celebrated���he/she just fell in love with someone else!���under the circumstances�.

[Note: this was on full display in the public arena when Gov. Mark Sanford�s romantic-affair saga was fresh in the news. He fed it with his silly, schoolboy infatuation comments about his Argentinean OW and several columnists, perhaps with a touch of cheerleading in watching his political career self-destruct, wrote stories in which they expressed support and sympathy for his �plight� in haplessly FIL with someone who wasn�t his wife.]

Ladies & gentlemen, FIL is NOT magic, it isn�t something that just randomly rains down from the sky, it isn�t predictive of positive results (one can FIL �badly� just as easily as �goodly�), and it doesn�t �just happen� in a vacuum. We can only FIL with someone that A) we have & maintain some kind of contact with and B) make ourselves emotionally-open and available to. I can guarantee you that no human being has EVER FIL with a person they have never had any contact with. I can also assure you that no human being has ever FIL with someone towards whom they did not willingly allow to meet at least some of their key ENs.

NEVER HAS HAPPENED�NEVER WILL.

It certainly can be a very tempting, hard-to-resist �slippery slope� but every person who FIL and cheated on a marriage (whether their own, the affair-partner�s, or both) did so through no accident whatsoever. The 2 parties MUST have initiated contact somehow, maintained that contact, and someone accepted their ENs being met � all in an inappropriate fashion that compromised values, vows, families, and right&wrong.

2 single people who FIL from a mutual position of emotional stability and maturity = a wonderful thing.

2 people who FIL in an adulterous relationship marked by deception, secrecy, betrayal, vulnerability, and selling-out = an evil siren-song of destruction.

wow...... powerful.

just wow.

What makes me so proud is that my youngest daughter refused to even talk to her current fiance a year ago.

She was then dating another man. He was dating another woman. Her fiance and she had dated one another about five or six years prior. Her fiance and she ran into one another while she was on tour. They were in a large group of people, and were catching up on things, and he mentioned to her that he missed her, and regretted breaking up.

She told him that both of them were unavailable, and that the conversation was not appropriate.

He told her that she was right, and perhaps one day it might be, if things changed for them in the future.


Things did change - and an odd circumstance led to a chance meeting over a year later when they were both single.


Why is it that some can respect even a DATING relationship, while others don't respect the commitment of MARRIAGE?

I think the word respect is key here. These waywards dont respect anyone. No respect for their children, their BS, the OP or even themselves.

Don't we always justify what we want? Don't we always rationalize our choices no matter what they may be? Don't we lie to out children about a number of things and justify it for a number of reasons? Don't we lie to save hurt feelings? Do we justify hurting someone or not doing something because we have to make hard choices in life?

Is this so out of the normal?





I am not in this situation so I can not really relate but I do know that God gives you these choices to make in life. You, as a person cannot reduce Gods glory or trivialize God no matter what you do. You are just a person. You cannot re-fashion God or make him into your own image.

It is unfortunate that people cannot accept things for what they are.

A Priest told me something profound one day. "God does not make mistakes."

How could you walk into a room and find a "few people to fall in love with" ? That is such and alien thing to me. Do you possibly mean "allow yourself to possibly fall in love with?"

Here is a question...Can you make yourself "fall out of love with someone?"

You can sure choose to fall in love with someone. I agree 100%. All WS decided to open their heart and allow OP in instead of working on the M or ending the M in fair terms.
BUT some WS once in love with OP, stay in love and long term affairs (and sometimes affairages) result as a consequence of this.
It is true that what the WS feels for OP is infatuation fueled by a fantasy. However, when the fantasy ends there is a chance that WS will develop deeper feelings for OP and form a long term commitment with OP.
The fact that they allow the falling in love to happen does not diminish the power that this has on WS who really experiences these strong feelings.
blessing

Our society has romanticized falling in love as this mystical, star crossed lovers, shot by cupid, wild, crazy, out of control thing. It's just as much a fantasy as the Easter Bunny.

I always found it amazing in High School, I'd be in a relationship with a guy and it would end. I never was worried about finding another guy. There were many guys in our circle of friends, I'd just find myself spending time with another and bam- there I was in love again.

Love is a pretty basic thing: someone meets your needs enough and you will love them. There very much is a choice involved with it you CHOSE to allow someone to meet those needs. The first time a guy broke up with me I decided two weeks after that I would not be sad and bitter, I'd go find someone else. I did and it didn't take very long. I was 16.

Everyone has good qualities that are worth loving, some more than others but there are few people that are completely degenerate and there are people that love even them.

That is the whole basis of the Marriage Builder philosophy: 'allow yourself to possibly fall in love with someone' and if they meet your needs, you WILL.



Absolutely - you see the evidence of it around here all the time. You simply do not allow that person to meet some of your needs. That is a choice as well, all be it one that may be made sub-consciously.

I don't remotely have time to read this whole thread, but just have to chime in: the idea that you can't control who you fall in (or out of) love with is a bunch of HOOEY!!!!!!

My gentle .02

Hey, today I did an experiment at work and asked people of all ages if you could help falling in love or not with someone. Most people said no, you really can't help it, it just happens. A few (mostly older) said that you can certainly feel attracted to someone but it is your choice whether or not to pursue that attraction and make it into something more solid.
Sooo, most of our western world out there believes you can't help it..as a consequence when WS says: it happened, I fell in love, those things happen....! Well most people believe them. I think that is craaaazyyy
blessing

I don't think most people realize that the choice to fall in love is often a series of smaller choices made over and over on a bigger and bigger scale. I didn't wake up and say, I am sad. I will therefore go sleep with OM. But I made the choice to pull away from H. I made the choice to spend more time talking to OM. I made the choice to pull away from friends who were a good influence and spend time with OM and another mutal friend. I made the choice to think about and fantasize about the feelings of attraction rather than run the other way. So by the time it was offically an EA, I had already made a series of stupid "small" choices, and I believed in my heart of hearts that I was entitled.

We waant love to be some "across a crowded room" affair (no pun intended) because we want it to be instant and easy. The other way requires work and commitment. It might not be "fun" every day. It boils down to selfishness and laziness in a lot of ways.

I too was one of those who swore I would NOT be dating the man who is now my DH. We were great friends, and when I would complain that all my friends but me had a date, Mom would say, what about J? And every time J and I saing a duet at church, the little old ladies who had known me forever would point out what a "nice young man" he was. Uhg! Leave me alone, people!! When we got engaged, the general reaction was, well, duh. It's about time Don't you just hate it when Mom and a bunch of little old ladies are smarter than you!!!

That funny luri...yes they often see better than we do, even with glasses.
I agree with what you said and I think it takes away the false belief that WS fall in love with OP at first sight. Mostly they decide to fall in love with OP and are often the ones who do the pursuing (especially WHs).
Another thing people say is that: well if they allowed that to happen and pursued OW or OM then imagine how unhappy they were in their M! Boy that really drives me bananas!
blessing

You know, sometimes I get frustrated at my children. They get messy, they fuss with each other, the forget to do their homework. They don't come hug me and say I love you all the time. But how many people would sympathize with me if I said I didn't love them anymore, didn't know if I had every loved them, and I found some other children who just swept me off my feet??? The fact that my kids aren't perfect would be irrelevant - I would be considered sick. How is marriage any different? After all, it was with DH that I made those children, that I made a vow, that I promised a whole room full of people. And yet if I betray him I can use the old "my marriage had problems" defense???? argh.

My WH worked with OW for few years before it became physical...He persued her for sex and she finally gave in (his words)....

He was talking to her about problems in our M, colicky new baby at home, how I was having a hard time handling it and was not Paying enough attention to him...she did not say to him "maybe you should be talking to her about this, M can be hard with a new baby" she proceeded to tell him what a lazy, bit$h I was and how he deserved better. She said "Maybe the reason you dont have too much sex anymore is because she is a lesbian"..WHAT!!!!????

Okay maybe he was unhappy after our baby was born...I was just dancing for joy that my WH wasnt around and I was at home taking care of a colicky baby...but I didnt run into someone elses arms...I took care of DS as best I could while my WH was worring about all the attention he wasnt gettin anymore. UGGGHHH!

HIS decision to open up about personal issues in our M to a coworker instead of his own WIFE. HIS.

Oh Lur, that was a GREAT post. Thanx

As far as if there is a fall in love in first sight, I think NOPE. There is a fall in LUST in first sight.

My WH says that when he first saw me, he instantly wanted to get to know me. I, being the open person I was, tried to engage him in conversation. He thought he wasn't good enough for me, I wanted to get to know this "mysterious" person. PA is a HIGH need in him, and I obviously fit the bill right away. He even told me that he loved me within 30 minutes after we started dating. I did not for quite a while. I did not love him yet. I liked him, yes, but not love. Over the next few months, I did grow to love him but that was because we were BOTH meeting each other's ENs.

This is such a good point too....Throw your family away and get a new one when you arent "happy" with them. I always was a firm believer in families sticking together through think and thin...that is how strong bonds form. Not in abusive situations, of course.

I bought the book, How to Fall Out of Love by Dr. Debra Phillips.

It's actually very simple. Much like Marriage Builders, if you follow its program completely and thoroughly, I have no doubt it will work. It's subtitled, "How to Free Yourself of Love That Hurts -- And Find the Love That Heals..."

Absolutely!

If you go to complete NC with them (no matter who initiates it), maintain that NC, and thereby remove yourself from any exchange of ENs, you WILL "fall out of love" over time with anyone!

It never fails.