I believe it was in "Private Lies" that I read that almost all divorces in long term first marriages involve infidelity. Does anyone know of any divorces in such marriages that didn't involve infidelity, physical abuse, or addiction to alcohol, drugs, or gambing? From what I have read and heard in recent months, I doubt very much that people ever just "grow apart" or are "unhappy" and divorce without there being an affair. An what really bothers me is that most books on divorce, especially those concerning "helping children cope" virtually ignore that, and act like children are better off because they won't be subject to the tense atmosphere/fighting - that if it is there at all, wasn't necessarily there before the affair.

Nellie:<P>Private Lies says that 90% of divorces involve infidelity, generally one spouse is cheating and will not stop. In my private observation, I think that's about right too. I don't think it's all, as I think there are instances of pure immaturity as well, people who are "in love with being in love" and leave because their "feelings changed." These kind usually happen early in the marriage, not in long-term ones.<P>It's frequent enough that I think it should be assumed in all situations when a spouse suddenly wants out. It's the rare exception when there's no one else involved, especially if it's the man leaving. Since everyone lies about it, you can't go on what people say. It could be that most of the remaining 10% also involved infidelity but it was never confessed or uncovered.

I've read that same statistic too in that book. I still don't think affairs "cause" divorces. I think it is human nature to want someone or something to fall back on when they are unhappy. The root of the unhappiness is in the marriage and individual. An affair is just the symptom most of the time. I've also read that 60% of marriages experiencing an affair do not end in divorce. And it is often quoted that 50% of ALL marriages will end in divorce. So, a still sizable portion of that remaining 50% have experienced an affair at some point in their marriage and managed to stay together. My ex interpreted these statistics as 50% cheat and 50% don't. I interpret them as 50% marry for better or worse, 50% marry till it's no longer convenient.

Although this is beginning to sound a lot like a word problem ( ) and I HATE math, it sounds about right to me too. I agree with the student, who said <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>An affair is just the symptom most of the time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Affairs don't necessarily end marriages, the marriages were in BIG trouble before the affairs. <P>With all those numbers floating around, I'd like to know the TRUTH too... <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Aa a mathematician I can tell you that all the statistics can become too much sometimes.<BR>They can also be interpreted in many ways - depending on the study. <P>Anyway, I don't believe that all marriages are in BIG trouble before an affair happens. I think that those people who are "in love with being in love" or whose "feelings changed" tend to have a Hollywood view of what a long term commitment is like. Then when a person comes along who you have a natural attraction with and you don't protect yourself - then you "remember" those exciting, intense, new feelings. That makes a person think that they have now met their soul mate - that they made a mistake the first time around. That this realtionship will be different, that those exciting, intense fellings will never go away. Now, that mean the relationship was in trouble, but not always BIG trouble. <P>A last note - I was married 9 years when my H started having an affair. Neither one of us thought (even now) that the marriage was in BIG trouble. There were a set of circumstances (OW, career/family balance with first child after being alone so long, medical problem after child so no sex, etc.) that allowed the affair to happen. Our realtionship wasn't doomed - it just wasn't protected - we were vulnerable. It is possibly past saving tho. <P>------------------<BR>d is for dog<BR>h is for hope<BR>j is for joy, pure joy!<P>

dhj,<P>Respectfully, I say this:<P>I still believe that the marriage is in trouble before an affair happens - and I stand by the word BIG.<P>If a marriage is strong, there is no room for another. Yes, someone is vulnerable, and yes, the OP has to fit in somewhere - possible low moral standards, or something along those lines. But a good strong solid marriage may have temptations, but I don't believe that cheating would occur. Just MHO.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

My parents split up after many years of just being unhappy. I can't know for sure, but I don't think my father had affairs. He lusted, sure, but I don't think he had any. He just decided enough was enough. Not all divorces are due to affairs, just as not all affairs lead to divorce.

I've read that women are more likely to seek a divorce without having an affair, but men won't usually seek a divorce until they have another relationship to go into. <P>Sometimes the marriage can be in BIG trouble because of factors outside of the relationship. We were coping with infertility, then a miscarriage, then serious medical problems, then a difficult pregnancy. All in all, the problems went on for about 2 years. Our marriage was VULNERABLE, and we did nothing to protect it, because neither one of us recognized it. Our relationship was at an all-time low. <P>I'm not saying the relationship wasn't also to blame. I'm saying that the pressures we were under opened up the cracks in the foundation. Our marriage needed help, but I don't believe it was doomed. The affair, however, was the wrecking ball.

I don't dispute at all the comment that the marriage is often in big trouble before the affair. Mine certainly was.<P>The distinction is the affair causes people not to work out the problems. The infidel runs to the affairee in the midst of the marital distress and chooses the joy of newfound love to the work of fixing the broken marriage. Sounds like an easy choice to me.<P>The basis for the affair is often the marital problems. But those problems don't get solved because of the affair. So when the divorce happens, in my view, the affair is the ultimate reason.

I still don't buy that all marriages were in BIG trouble. I can see where most people would think that. An affair is so unthinkable that for it to happen the marriage must have been miserable. I just can't buy that. <P>All marriages go thru cycles. Those ups and downs. When you are in a down cycle it does not mean you are in BIG trouble - it means you need more protection and that means more communication (in my opinion). Without that communication you are too vulnerable. Most o fus are not prepared for these things. I know my parents (divorced) never communicated any of this to me. The church didn't. School didn't. <P>I do believe that a lot of marriages were probably in BIG trouble, but not all. I know that my H and I would both say that were not in BIG trouble. <P>Maybe this is just how I cope - or maybe I am just warped!

dhj, <P>Or maybe you and I are a little bit of both <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited October 24, 1999).]

Nellie,<BR>I do know of a couple of cases where the person just didn't want to be married anymore.I don't think there was anything going on,but they just didn't want the responsibility of being married,and raising a family.I agree somewhat with dhj.My W and I didn't have any major problems(well,maybe she thought so),we got along for the most part.But I think she just fell in love with love.Sometimes we let our emotions control our behaviors.I know a lot of people with terrible marital problems,but they manage to stay together.I guess with some couples,divorce just isn't an option. --Murph

Hi Nellie, I started to post a reply, then headed off on a tangent, so see my separate thread.

Nellie,<BR> I'm sure there are people who have divorced for other reasons, I just don't know<BR> any of them. The couples I know and have been friends with, its always because of infidelity. <BR> My husband told me he had his affair because, at the time, I was very involved at work, I mean I worked long hours and I wasnt<BR> paying him the attention I should have.He<BR> said he was bored and she was there and every little thing he did was great in her eyes and she paid him the attention he needed<BR>and he sucked it up.I didnt think we had big problems but I guess to him it was a big problem.It is getting to be the time of year again when I am going to have to spend more time at work but this time I hope I can handle it better.

You know what, the bottom line is marriage is a BIG, BIG commitment. I think most people really don't know that when they marry. Saying you will love someone for a lifetime is BIG. I think that unfortunately most people are not committed to the marriage, but to themselves. (Should take care of yourself, but two are in the marriage that need to take care of each other) ALL marriages have their ups and downs - it is how you weather them that makes the difference. A person has to be against the idea of a divorce, but too many people always keep the option in the back of their head. That makes it easier. <P>It is like my inlaws. They do not believe in divorce. So when things were bad, they worked thru them. I can remember when my H and I got married. I am so against divorce (parents were divorced), but I can remember my H say "we will be married forever - I would never cheat on you." In the next breath it would be, "you never know." That means he always kept that option in the back of his head. <P>Does that make sense? <P>------------------<BR>d is for dog<BR>h is for hope<BR>j is for joy, pure joy!<P>

In my first marriage, I sought out the divorce. I was not involved in nor had I ever been involved in an affair. After the divorce was final, I heard stories which told of my XW having had an affair which lasted several months, but at the time I filed for divorce, I had no idea that this had taken place.<P>I guess that put me into the 10% which didn't divorce because of infidelity. Don't know if that makes it any better or not though.<P>God Bless

I agree with dhj that marriages are not always in BIG trouble - the more I read about depression, the more I am convinced that my H has suffered from numerous serious depressive episodes all his adult life, and the problems lay largely within himself. I think it is highly unlikely that if there were major problems in the relationship, that the unhappy party would never have mentioned any, and in fact denied that anything was wrong.