Around here we call the "punishment" 2x4s
They are to help you as much as anything else we post.

As far as how to ask her to move back into the room why not just ask her. Just say something like, "I would really wish that you would come and sleep in our room again. I miss you."

Of course, others may have something else to post. That's just MVHO.

The reason men last longer in Plan A is men are mentally tougher. [Dr Harley is not politically correct and he says this] Women tend to have nervous breakdowns and suffer years of post traumatic stress disorder from going very long.

HOWEVER, you should not be in plan A if your wife's affair is over. You should be in Plan RECOVERY. If your wife is not committing to the marriage then you should be focusing hard on getting her into recovery.

Dr Harley is so politically incorrect!

Thanks again! It's refreshing to hear someone say what they really believe rather than something others expect them to believe. I'm sure he came to that conclusion from observation rather than feeling.

I believe my wife is committed to our marriage. She's still foggy and confused, and says typical wayward babble. But I really believe she can regain her love for me, and with your help I intend to stay in plan A for as long as it takes.

A little while ago I told her where I was in my self-improvement process: I needed to know what, in her opinion, was my biggest lovebuster. She told me I tend to make impulsive statements which I later retract. And I do. For example, when I was really down a couple of days ago I told her I should probably take the month of May off work. My job requires a high level of concentration and mental awareness, and if I feel like I'm lacking those qualities I consider taking a break. I told her I'd work on eliminating this from our conversation. I told her I thought she'd say my biggest lovebuster was selfish demands. And she agreed with that. I guess to say I'm taking the month of May off is a selfish demand. The family depends on my income, so to put them in a position of no income for a month so I can take a break is selfish. When I ask something of her I tend to say "lets do ... tonight". I told her I'd work on saying, "I'd really like to do ... tonight. What do you think?" She seemed to think that would be a less demanding way to ask something of her. She told me I shouldn't expect her to agree to much for awhile. She's still angry about last weekend. I didn't apologize for exposing the A, but I did apologize for telling more than I needed to tell.

We have a weekend in May scheduled together. We both work M-F and she just started a new job, so a longer time than a weekend isn't possible for now. The room I reserved has 2 beds, and I told her it was up to her whether both were used or not. I'm trying to show her I'm eliminating demands from our relationship (at least on my part).

Thanks, Melody! You keep pulling pearls from Dr. Harley's work that answer my questions. Would you send me one on plan recovery, please? I'm not sure how to transition from one plan to the other, and exactly what is in plan recovery.

It isn't a demand to have only ONE bed in a hotel room. I would have rented a room with only one bed and she could have chosen where she wanted to sleep.

If you believe that the A is really over, then do you have a plan of recovery?

Have you read many people's stories on the recovery part of their relationships? Have you read all of the items DrH has about recovery?

As far as your taking a month off of work, this could have been an opportunity to try to use the POJA. There are a few things that you could have come up with that both of you may have become enthusiastic about. It is not a SD if the two of you can agree to something. It is good to change habits that you deemed harmful to your marriage, the problem comes when you start to hold in the things that bother you and you don't use the POJA. If you start sacrificing, your Taker won't like it and he will come out to play. Your WW won't like that and it will harm your M. You will create resentment in yourself and YOU will kill your M(even if there isn't another A). I hope you read up on recovery. You need to keep snooping though to ensure there is NC.

Has your WW agreed to write a NC letter? There are many examples out there. She needs to do this as the first step in recovery with you. Get reading my friend, the hard part has just begun.

You can book a room with only one large bed, queen or king size.

Sorry I haven't replied to your messages the past day. I've been extremely busy and haven't had a chance to turn on my computer.

I'd like to tell you what I'm thinking about the bedroom issue. I know nothing I did justifies my wife having an A, but unfortunately much of what she complains about with me is not meaningless fog-babble. I have been selfish, and my selfishness hurt her. Just as nothing I did justifies her A, nothing she'd done justified my selfishness. I mentioned that she has a chronic pain condition. She's had it for the past 20 years. This medical problem puts her in bed for days at a time, oftentimes unresponsive to the world with the powerful meds she has to take. To my discredit, with time I grew to resent this problem. It was difficult if not impossible to ever plan to do something together. After I learned of her A I began researching the internet to try and figure out how one survives such a thing. I'd never heard of an EN until I found Dr. Harley's website. After we completed our EN surveys and I learned what was really important to her I realized I'd failed miserably in providing what she needed most. Well, that's changed.

For her, my changes are still too new for her to accept as permanent. For that reason, I'm not going to push her. Scotty, based on what you said earlier, I've determined I'm still in plan A. My taker isn't bothering me. From time to time it wakes up and reminds me it's still there, but I've not had any trouble tucking it back into bed. My giver is happy to do its thing, and he's been able to convince my taker to take a break. My taker knows his time will come, and he also knows that whenever that happens it'll happen because her giver has reawakened, not because he needs to exert his self-indulgence/self-preservation mission. When that happens, my taker will just sit back and watch his big-screen TV in my mind and enjoy what her giver provides me. But for now, her taker is calling the shots in our relationship. I don't look at this like I'm letting her roll over me roughshod. In the past, her giver was working overtime and her taker grew to resent it. Her taker needs his day in the sun. Her personality is a giving one, so I don't think it'll be too long before that part of her re-emerges. Dr. Harley said that, as couples move from the withdrawal state of mind to intimacy, it often happens because one spouse throws an olive branch to the other, moving him/her out of withdrawal into conflict. He also said that the first one to move into intimacy is often the one who was the recipient of the care provided by the other spouse, not the one who worked the hardest to save the marriage. We are in conflict right now, which is a vast improvement over the withdrawal state we were in for so long. If I have to throw the whole olive tree her way for us to move into intimacy, I'll do it. If it works out that she's the first to leave conflict and move into intimacy, it'll be a welcome event. Melody, one of the questions I asked in my first posting was "when will I know she's leaving withdrawal (not the state of mind type)"? You said "when she starts to warm up to you". I'm going to be looking for clues that her giver is reawakening, which should indicate she's moving into the intimacy state of mind.

When she mentioned to our MC that she'd like to move into the guest room the MC asked her how long she thought it might be. She said 2 months (a number she almost certainly pulled off the top of her head). Today it's been 6 weeks. In another 2 weeks I'll reasses the situation and decide if that might be a good time to invite her back to our room. If it's not, and she's continuing to show improvement, I'm pretty sure I'll be OK. It's only been 3 1/2 months since d-day, and probably only 1 month since I could look back and say I learned what a plan A was and started applying those principles.

Thanks again for your concern and advice. I look forward to hearing from you soon! (By the way, I started my AD last night. No side-effects yet.)

Things are infinitely worse. She's still fuming, now talks of nothing but separation. Said she thought she could have worked on our relationship before her A was exposed to her family, but now has virtually ruled-out any possibility. She has agreed to listen to Steve Thursday morning. Last Sunday she told me she wanted to separate, but would give herself another week to cool off. I can't see that happening. I've met with a lawyer. A full-blown plan B would not be possible in our state. She admitted to being in contact with OM last Friday. Since I've met with a lawyer and he said OM'sW could not take a successful financial action against us, and she says the only reason OM texts her is to update him on his BW, I asked her to please block his number so no further contact would be possible. She said she didn't want to do that "right now" (she's always using those 2 words). So, unless Steve can pull out a near-miracle, I fully expect her to leave next week.

I'm trying to stay positive, but am failing miserably. I just can't picture a future with happiness right now. I believe my AD's are starting to kick in, but still swing from slight hope to near-despair in a matter of minutes. It would be wonderful to hear from you again. I'm not friendless over here, but nobody I know has been through this misery. Thank you again.

Of course you knew this would happen, right? WS are always enraged when their A's are exposed, and they all say the same things. Typical.

NC is going to have to be established in order for her to complete withdrawal and defog. I'm hoping your consult with Steve will help with this.

Hello, maritalbliss,
Yes, I knew this would happen. I guess I was clinging to some irrational hope she would realize everything she's risking by her actions. I'm learning more each day how dense the fog is when one is involved in an A. I just never knew it would hurt so badly.

Sorry Melody, my knees still turn to jello when she's like this.

hi there standingfast,
I have been reading your postings and the others have you on the right track, listen to them and forget about what she says and does right now....
I was in your position 9 months ago, when I found out my husband was determined to leave me and his family for the OW.....
As time went on he saw how much I was willing to fight for our marriage and he saw that I owned my part in the marriage breakdown...
During the whole reveal, home became the place he felt the safest and spending time with me seemed what he slowly wanted to do.
It was slow, for a few months he held on to the fact that the OW didn't have anything to do with our marriage breakdown...
He told me it wasn't about chosing one of us.....
He has now come out of the fog, saying the whole thing wasn't worth all the pain he has caused me, our family and his two boys.....
It took him probably 4 months to come to grips with what he had done and the damage he had caused everyone....
I did and followed what the others have advised you to do.
Hang in there, you won't get anything out of this for yourself for a long while so don't expect it....
Fight for what is yours...

Thanks, jessitaylor! I really appreciate you posting your experience. Did your WH leave your home for those few months? I'm not expecting anything for myself and am fine with that. I just want my wife to come out of the fog and back to reality. Thanks again!

I'd also be interested to know if he moved out! WH is leaving soon and I am feeling so hopeless he will ever want to repair the marriage....

Not to be a downer, but here's a big problem with the "fog" and coming out of it.

When it come to emotions or "feelings", perception is indeed reality for the wayward. The fog may have them grossly over-exaggerating the state of the marriage before the affair, but they have themselves convinced of that view of reality. And, that perception is very hard to change in a wayward.

So while we know it's fog babble and invented or at least warped to justify their affair, in many cases its what the wayward truly believes and they act accordingly. This is why many never come out of the fog.

standingfast,
He didn't actually move out, but in the beginning I just agreed to what his decisions were to end the marriage like he said he wanted...
I drew up a separation agreement which he signed and I went to the bank and changed all the bank accounts to separate ones. The agreement stated that he would find other housing and that I was buying him out.....I'm a stay at home mom, together for 26 years......We announced to all and our families we were going our separate ways......The whole time I knew it wasn't what he really wanted but his actions had showed me a different path and direction for him, he told me the first few months he had feelings for the other woman.....I said fine, go be happy.......when he had the freedom he didn't go, he had to make the final decision to leave......there was always some excuse to why his plan to leave wasn't working out....he spent all his time(at home) he didn't work at night anymore, all of a sudden when I found out it was like he was re-thinking it, but still saying the other life is what he wanted.....fog talk I guess. I didn't push him to get out and said take the time you need to find what you want....
I told him I accepted his choices and wanted him to be happy.....
I treated him the best I had in years and he eventually came around.....
there is no guarantee but at least you will have fought for what is yours.....
right from the getgo, he spent all his free time with me(at home)

Thanks, jessitaylor! You sound like an amazing person. You make it sound so easy and straightforward, but I would guess your feelings would tell a different story if he knew about them. What told you he didn't really want to leave?

standingfast,
I don't know, I think it was a combination of things, I think in the beginning because I acknowledged his feelings even though I knew he couldn't possibly be in love with the OW. I think because I told him right from the beginning that I loved him and always did but I loved him enough to let him go and be happy if she was what he wanted...
The marriage always had his challenges and those problems were mostly because his lack of emotional connection with me, I verbalize and don't leave anything unsaid, he is the opposite and finds it hard to say what he really feels and because of that it put a distance between us I actually felt that he didn't love me a lot of the time, he now says that wasn't true that it just was that he couldn't and didn't express that to me...
The rest of our life has been good, so I acknowledged his feelings, was willing to let him go so he could be happy.
told him I loved him and made everything easy for him to go....
We became best friends during that time.....
I think he finally has seen me for what I am and I think he has acknowledged his mistakes as well.
We have been together for 26 years, not all easy times and neither one of us left, that to me told me that there was something there, the fact that he never left when he could have told me maybe it wasn't what he wanted to actually do, I waited him out and just said I loved him enough to accept whatever made him happy....
It took a while living through him telling me he had feelings for the OW but I just patiently waited and worked on being strong myself in case he did leave to be with her.....
You can't make someone want to stay but you can get them thinking about what they would be giving up and what is worth the effort to keep....
There is no guarantee, but I tried and I decided to do the fight instead of flight thingy......I'm a fixer be nature and it just didn't seem right to not fight for my life and my marriage......