He came in at about 10:00 last night and came straight to bed. I guess I'm going to just leave him alone until I see something change. I will be getting plan b ready.

Everyday is such a struggle. I appreciate everyone's support.

Just keep up your PLan A and don't worry about what he is doing. Don't worry about how he is reacting. You just focus on the things that you can control. The only things that you can control are the things you do. Become the most wonderful wife that you can. Believe me, a good Plan A is empowering. It is emotionally taxing. Just come on here and vent about how horrible your WH is being so you can plaster on a SMILEY face.

Also, you should take a couple of opportunities to say, "Hey hun, I am gonna go out for a bit. Watch the kids." Then you go drive to a park(preferably deserted) and yell at him. I used to cry in the car all the way to work and back. I would cry in the shower. I was a basket case. But in front of him, I was smiling and happy.

I would say these statements over and over again(I got them from MB and I didn't want to deviate). "I believe in a marriage with only 2 people." or "I can not accept a marriage where you have a girlfriend." This is the one I would use when he was going to see POSOW. I couldn't stop him. Even if I were to lay down in front of him crying and screaming, he would most likely just walk right over me.

It hurts in Plan A. It kills you emotionally(hence the reason DrH recommends such a short time frame). You can do this.

All you have to do is do things that would meet him top 5 ENs(don't expect a positive reaction though), and don't commit any LBs. Make yourself look and smell good. Make the house look and smell great. Play with the kids.

Are there any complaints that your WH had about your marriage PRE-A? This is important. Any complaints since the A are justifications that he has used to convince himself that this was okay.

Have you read my thread? The first 45 pages are my Plan A. The next 145 are Plan B. There is a lot of posts about random life events, but it is all about my life.

BTW, did you tell your children yet?

Yes they know and my boys are starting to treat him with disrespect. I'm going to have another talk with them tonight. I'm trying not to appear needy, but it's difficult.

It's hard to be strong and confident when my life is such a mess.

Higgs, I don't think you are giving yourself enough credit on doing as well as you are. Seriously, hon, you are doing fantastic so don't beat yourself up with the "I think I screwed up" stuff. You haven't screwed up, you are simply going through what many in your position (trying to save your marriage) go through and you "ARE" doing an amazing job. Actually, I think you deserve a pat on the back for doing as well as you are. "This" is not an easy thing to go through (or do), but yet, here you are, doing it and doing it in a wonderful fashion. Give yourself a break, dear, you are doing better than you even know.

Yes, it surely is, but being strong and confident is exactly what you need at a time like this so keep at it, keep at it, keep at it. After all, why do you think so many people are rooting for you, higgs? It's because we've come to care about you, respect you, love you "ANNND" because we "KNOW" that you can do it...that's why!

Higgs, if he asks about the VAR, use reverse babble...

WH: What is this?
Higgs: A little black box?
WH: Where'd it come from?
Higgs: Do you know?
WH: Come on, what's going on?
Higgs: I wonder that myself.
WH: Are you spying on me?
Higgs: Could I?
WH: WTH!!!
Higgs: Speaking of, I believe in a marriage with only 2 people, would you like a cookie?"

He hasn't mentioned the recorder, but I don't know that he would. Thanks for the cheering. It so helps for me tocome here. I'm planning spaghetti for tonight and some time with kiddos.

Hi Higgs,

I have thought a couple of times now that maybe he's reading here on MB. He'd have only had to have a single clue... any chance?? He's trips out could be to access the internet?

If so, at least he knows that you love him and want the marriage to work.

Just a thought. Hang tuff!

My WH found the VAR. I know because it was moved and OFF. I was slightly discouraged. I thought about borrowing someone else's and putting BOTH in the car. Then I decided to put it in the house near the computer. I "caught" phone calls between WH and POSOW while I was at work.

BTW, WH NEVER mentioned it at all. He just moved it so I would KNOW that he KNEW. I never mentioned it either. As far as I can tell WH doesn't know about MY thread or this site. He seemed to be pretty surprised by my Plan B.

I'm not sure , but I've not given any clues. I noticed that I posted that I put the car on his car at 9:30. He would have been at school....we can 't access this at school. I used my iPhone.

But if he's technically saavy, he could set up a rule that forwards any updates to your thread straight to his email, but that would require him setting up an account.

This could be a good thing and a bad thing. Good in that he's being exposed to the GOOD STUFF on this site, bad that he's getting a headsup on your moves.

Higgs,

I am here to offer more support and inspiration. Remember that you are in a war. This thing about failing because of the VAR is just a small battle. Don't sweat it and don't stop planning YOUR strategy. I remember feeling very helpless and powerless too during my FWW adultery. Plan A was terrible painful I was there too. But the truth is that while he is lost and wandering, you are learning and growing. Do not take your eye off the goal- a great NEW restored marriage.

One thing you might put into your strategy is to learn to ASK as in "Spouse, I know our past has been problematic and I want to apologize for the things I have done that have hurt you and our marriage. During this crises I have realized that I love you and want to have a great marriage with you. If there was a program, book, seminar, etc to help us learn how to have a great marriage would you look at it with me because I don't understand the part about men's needs? Its right here on page XX of HNHN."

During my sales career I learned that people are not open to someone convincing them of anything.

ME- Hi, I'm selling life insurance. You probably need some. Look at this great product that will blah blah blah. This generates immediate NOs.

See how that comes off as arrogant and disrespectful? Instead...

Hi, (after introductions)Do you own any life insurance? "
THEM- "Well I have some but I'm not sure if its enough."

Now the exchange is positive and rewarding. You have probably heard this here alot that you cannot try to change or control your spouse but you can ask them for change and effort.

With apologies for length, below I provided my inspiration for plan A. I hope you find a nugget or two in there for yourself.

I hope this post gets pinned for other BSs because if you read my posts down below you will see it works and your faith in these concepts and pricipals will grow and you will come through all of this bull**** stronger, better person, better marriage etc. Your plan is right here, its SAA and MB way. Dr Harley rules. Work the plan, be a man (or woman) with a plan, don’t allow yourself to be thrown around in a tumultuous ocean of feelings. Feelings are temporary and many times they betray us. Do the plan based on your goals and your convictions and your vows. This is where real confidence comes from. That is the most attractive thing your WS will see. Panic does no good (I panicked for 2 weeks). You will panic. Tell yourself I am having a bad hour, not a bad day. I am having a bad day, not a bad week. etc.

I am sensing the end of my plan A. I know it has worked. Wife told me so. But she cannot let go of her addiction. She says she is changing her mind hour by hour, day by day. She cannot decide so I must. I have a plan, MBer’s plan. It worked so far. I will trust it more.

Plan A serves many purposes.
1) Primarily it serves to demonstrate to your spouse the partner you can and will become with improvements that will meet their EN’s and avoid LBer’s. Read, Read, read HNHN, LBer’s, or for a simpler approach read Gary Chapman 5 Languages of Love.

2) It gives the WS time to decide to end the A before separation.

3) It gives BS time to deposit as many love units into WSs account as possible. It sucks that your primary duty becomes give, give, give while your Taker is screaming at you and your spouse is trampling all over you.

4) It gives time for exposure to work. Two approaches here: 1) Expose all at once to as many as you feel will be effective or 2) Expose like peeling an onion, each layer adds to the affect.

5) It gives BS time to fall out of love. Plan B is on the horizon and when that time comes hopefully you will not hurt so badly after 3-6 months of your own EN’s not being met.

Plan A “strategeries”:
1) Get right with God. I would not be in this mess if I had obeyed biblical rules and my vows. Instead I fell prey to the ways of the world: sin, selfishness and lust. BUT, I have been forgiven through Jesus Christ. We all need saving at one time or another, most of us need it all the time. Pray. Ask others to pray for the 2 of you and your marriage. Days when I was at my lowest and about to give up, fellow Christians would call me out of the blue, people I barely knew and give me strength to press on.

My wife replaced me with another man. I replaced her with God. I prayed daily, then 2 times a day, somedays I prayed hourly. I prayed for my wife, for her to have strength, for her to open her heart again to me and the Lord. I prayed for and with our children. I prayed with my in-laws. I prayed in the bathroom at work, in the car to and from work. I asked God for a miracle in my marriage. GOD DELIVERED see below! She thinks God is not talking to her but she is wrong, she is just not listening. I don’t mean that to sound condescending but I swear God has provided me/us with miracles, some small, some big. She just won’t acknowledge them. When we went around the table at Thanksgiving saying what we are thankful for my 5 year old said God and Jesus. Tell me that’s not a miracle.

Just today my MIL forwarded her typical mass email but this one said “Nobody falls in love by choice, its chance. Nobody stays in love by chance, its work. Nobody falls out of love by chance, its choice. If that’s not God talking to WSs I don’t know what is. I have many more examples.

2) Grow. Make up your mind to grow through the tough times. Failure is really the only place we learn. I grew, I read extensively. Counseling helped me greatly when we did the Meyers Briggs personality profiles. She is stuck, not growing, only read one book. I changed the bad stuff, I learned how to stop attacking my marriage (withdrawing from arguments instead of communicating with her), I learned how to not LBust. I learned what EN of hers I was neglecting. I admitted my mistakes. I asked for forgiveness from her and God for not honoring my vows. I am being a responsible and caring adult with a family who needs me.

3) Demonstrate what you learned in #2. Change is possible and real. Change will be noticed but may go unacknowledged by WS. Change will be acknowledged but not be trusted by WS. Press on. Demonstrate your changes and how you can meet WS ENs, don't state them. Walk the (positive) walk. State your LBers, don't demonstrate them. Don't walk the (negative) talk. Tell yourself your happiness does not depend on your WS. Repeat! Now go do something that does make you happy, reading for me, reading to my 5 yr old, helping DD with math, etc. This helped me a lot early on.

S. Harley described plan A like this: (sorry I don't know who to attribute this too but someone else posted it first) Imagine trying to cross a river with no boat, you need to build a bridge but your only resource is rocks on the river bank. Every EN you meet for your WS and every good deed/positive interaction you do for them is a rock you throw into the stream. Many rocks get thrown in without any obvious progress because they are hidden beneath the surface, all at the bottom of the river. But then one day a rock breaches the surface. aahhh progress that you can finally see. Its been happening all along but you couldn't see it till now. Keep throwing rocks. Still need to cross the river.

4) Take care of self. Emotionally you might be a wreck so balance this by getting physical and spiritual in shape. You will lose weight; you might as well make the most of it. I worked out, gained muscles. I look great, always was too skinny. Instead of running to her to get her to change her mind about our marriage, I did sit-ups and pushups. She is stuck, gained 10 pounds in 3 months.

5) Keep living. Get out with other people. Sometimes to vent, sometimes to have fun. She was stuck in bed crying when I went to my friend’s mother’s funeral. He needed me. She didn’t.

My opinion on the "need to know" and talk about or discuss the A during plan A: Don't. If you keep bringing up OP the focus of your conversations with spouse is on OP. You want it to be just the 2 of you as much as possible. Be attentive and caring, listen, offer help. If you want details, thats understandable BUT the details will then consume your thoughts about where and what you were doing while WS was doing god knows what with god knows who. That leads to anger and LBing big time. That will NOT help plan A. Details and A talk can come after plan A assuming you enter recovery. I rarely asked my spouse if she had spoken to or seen OM. I knew deep down, it was obvious in her actions, demeanor and mood. I just kept on being the great spouse she needed.

The end of plan A has to come before you start LBing all over your WS. I caught myself last night and left the house for 2 hours. I was so mad that I might have blown a gasket in front of her and kids. I can't believe her selfishness. It’s amazing how people refuse to make decisions because of their own pain they will feel. How about the pain our 3 kids are going to feel? Narcissism I guess is the keyword.

At the end of plan A, because your ENs likely have gone unmet, you will probably also be out of love from WS as they are from you. This is important because when plan B goes into affect it may not be as bad as you think. (But it'll probably still be horrible.) But I think I may enjoy the respite. After putting forth so much effort it will be nice to let it all hang out for awhile and sleep in on Saturdays.

My WW is caught in a double life and a web of lies. She lies to me about being with him, then she lies to him about being with me. No matter which way she chooses there will be pain. I don't envy her at all. Cake eating and fence sitting come with a high price. We BSs could argue all day till your blue in the face but the fog is too thick I guess.

BP, there is alot of good stuff here, but I wanted to point out that some of these recommendations are yours and not in keeping with Marriage Builders. We need to stick closely to Marriage Builders and not muddy the waters with our own personal opinions. [nor refer her to other plans ie, 5 Languages of Love]

For example, women do not DO Plan A for 3-6 months, they do it for 3-4 WEEKS. The recommendation for men is SIX MONTHS. Women are not supposed to do long term Plan A's. Plan A is not supposed to be a way of life for conflict avoiders and enablers.

Exposure is not recommended to be done in "layers." I have never seen Dr Harley suggest this. In practice, exposing in layers has the effect of bringing a pea shooter to a gun fight because it completely diminishes the effect of exposure. It also gives the affairees a chance to pre-empt the exposure targets with spin.



I hope and pray this was written YEARS ago and that your wife's affair has ended, becuase I would be horrified to discover that you had been in plan A for all these YEARS allowing your wife to cakeeat. You have been here for TWO and a half years. If she has been in an affair that long and you have done nothing about it, then I would chalk that up to some serious enabling and that IS NOT what MB prescribes. It is meant to be a short term plan, not a way of life for conflict avoiders.

Can you clarify your comment?

I honestly don't think he's seen the thread....he rebukes me everyday about my PI and other things that I have for evidence. I think he would mention it as a way to fire at me.

He walked up to me all hostile like this afternoon and said he was going to get pants and he would be back, but I could have my PI follow if I wanted. He said, "by the way, I'm going to a counselor on Sunday, and then I'll let you know whether I will be willing to see your counselor" What does this mean. I asked him who the counselor was and he said, "Oh no, after what you did to me, I don't trust you anymore than you trust me."

Is this just another excuse to see OW? Will this counselor really direct him the right way...or tell him to leave me? I don't know what to think.

You know what, many WS on here have gone to a counselor and then made up what the counselor has said to justify what they are doing.

You need to learn how to reverse babble.

You are doing a GREAT job. Keep it up.

There is no telling what the counselor will tell him. But I can tell you that he is probably still in contact. I would start working on getting your Plan B in order, higgs.

When he comes home have a serious discussion with him. Let him know that you would be willing to give this a try under certain conditions:

1. he ends his affair with the OW, sending her a NC letter pledging no contact for life

2.opens up his life to you so you can be assured he is still not having an affair

3. commits to the recovery plan as outlined in Marriage Buildrs

Tell him you would be willing to forgive him for his adultery if would commit to those things. If not, then you want to separate because his behavior is too upsetting and emotionally traumatic for you. Ask him to move out this weekend.

He seems to be under the impression that it is ok to stay and abuse you and you will do nothing about it. If he won't move out, I would just tell him that you cannot live like this much and will be forced to take action.

He continues to insist that he has not had an affair. He claims that I was totally wrong and i blew this out of proportion. Who counsels on Sunday anyway?

Thats ok if denies it. Tell him you don't need his confession to know the truth. And since he says he has not had an affair then he shouldn't mind sending her a no contact letter as a "GOOD WILL GESTURE" to you. Will he be willing to do that?

I wouldn't let that interfere with your plan.

I don't know. I'll ask him if he would be willing to commit to that. He makes it like I'll be lucky if he decides to work with me.....like he has to think about whether he wants to make it work or not.