Of course income is less important than marriage. Do realize the kind of criticism that low income people have to deal with? First of all there will be people who will tell me that I shouldn't have Internet access at all if money is tight, never mind the fact that our classes are online and DH makes extra money designing websites both of which require internet. Secondly, since we receive food stamps society makes us feel obligated to at least raise our income enough to stop stealing all taxpayers hard earned money. Then of course there are the people who believe that we had four kids on purpose just so we could get more benefits. That was never our intention. When we first got married DH had a better paying job that didn't require a degree and we were buying a house from a relative. My religious background dictated that all forms of birth control were wrong and as good religious girl I believed what I was told growing up. (I have since had my tubes tied) When our third child was born she had all kinds of medical problems, DH took too much time off work to be with her in the hospital, we really believed she wouldn't survive, as a result he lost his job and we had to let the house go back to our relative. DH works ten hour days for low wages, I haven't been able to find work but even if I could find something it would cost more to pay for childcare for four kids than I could even make with minimum wage. Yes marriage is important, I wouldn't have stayed with my husband after the A if I didn't believe that to be the case, but being able to pay our way without government aid is pretty important too.

When I said I don't understand how other people find time, I wasn't being sarcastic. How can you make time when there aren't enough hours in the day? Yes I can skip washing the dishes. I did that already and my father in law showed up at my house and yelled at me for being irresponsible and not being the kind of parent I should...(it was over a mess not just the dishes)...yes we can probably make an hour a day or find someone to babysit for us...the last few times we tried that we always got a call from the sitter and needed to go home again because one of the kids was having a crisis. We've never had a vacation. Been married for seven years and never even had a honeymoon or a vacation. I've about reached the end of my rope and and have no idea what to even do anymore.

I don't care that we live in a trailer park. The town I live in does care. They said we have too many people in this small building and have to move out by September. I would be happy to live with my husband anywhere but we have been told we can not stay here.

I am aware that people can sometimes get by without a degree. We knew that was the case when we got married or else we would have thought more seriously about finishing college before getting married. In reality it has been a lot harder to find a good paying job without a degree than expected.

I am not making excuses. Not everyone has the privilege of living on the same schedule. It's possible that we can squeeze out 7-10 hours of UA.

Anyway, I think I'll just skip posting here again and figure out a way to solve my own problems.

Yes. I've lived it.

How's that working out for you? Because it seems to have left you bitter, and resentful and distant.

We are trying to tell you what the problem is: you are not spending enough time with your husband.

All the wishing in the world won't change what your solution is: you need to spend more time with your husband.

I understand tight schedules, I applaud your desire to better your financial situation. However, if you want a happy marriage, you will need to spend more time with your husband.

There is no other way to do this. None, nada, zip.

This isn't about income. Doesn't matter how much you make or where you live. It doesn't matter how many kids you have or your religious beliefs.

Ignore your FIL when he gets after you for a messy house. Your life, your house, your priorities- if he can't respect that, then he has to go. Your older children are big enough to start picking up after themselves and doing small chores. If they aren't you need to get them to start as it is in their own best interest.

Ignore what society is telling you. I'm a tax payer, keep on those food stamps if you have to. More than the money and financial comforts, what your kids need is a stable marriage at the foundation of their family. THAT will make them productive members of society, not your paycheck.

I am not trying to criticize your financial status or family situation. I am not judging you or your life. I'm just trying to point out to you where your marriage is struggling and where it will fail if something isn't done to fix it.

Fact: you're falling out of love with your husband.
Fact: to fall back in love you need to spend time together.

So either: spend more time together somehow, or resign yourself to an unhappy, distant marriage.

Those really are your only two options. Excuses won't change that and they sure won't help you fall back in love with your husband. Only time can do that.

I am having a really bad week and apologize for taking it out on all of you. What upset me was the way people tried to make it sound as though spending more time together was just some simple thing that would be easy to make room for if I actually cared about my marriage. I have been on edge and it felt as if I were being accused of not trying hard enough. When I feel like I'm being attacked it kind of puts a damper on being willing to ask for help. I realize it wasn't an attack, it's just me being overly sensitive because I've had a bad week. I'm sorry.

I am willing to get up earlier and make more time than we've had in recent months. I'm not sure how we'll make it work but we'll figure out something.

I understand. It is tough when life is pulling you in a million different directions.

I can see where it came off that you don't care about your marriage. I'm sure you do or you wouldn't be here. So often it seems that the marriage is the first thing that gets dropped to the bottom of the priority list, as people think they'll just struggle through and their love will still be there when they get to it. It won't.

I know you're trying hard, but you gotta restructure your priorities. Put your marriage at the tippy top and let everything else fall in where it can.

It may seem a bit trite, but

It's very true.

You'll figure something out if the two of you sit down and brainstorm. Find ways to squeeze it in.

I'm glad to see you didn't leave, torn. This program can really help you.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I was not trying to make it sound like spending more time together is simple, or would be simple if you just cared more. I know firsthand that it is very, very difficult.

Fights start when you try to judge people's motives.


You can do this, and this is all I wanted you to know. It is possible. This program works -- when followed. If you haven't been having 15+ hours of undivided attention time each week meeting each other's intimate emotional needs (20+ hours if one or both of you is dissatisfied with the marriage), then you haven't really been following the program.

Finding out I wasn't really following the program was a bit of a bitter pill to swallow when I first started posting here. I had been reading this site and Dr. Harley's books for well over six years! But I still wasn't really following the program.

Have you read completely through the Ten Basic Concepts on this site in the last three months or so?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html

I think sometimes people in the forum are a bit harsh to make a point. They only have access to you as long as you are willing so they don't have the luxury of time to slowly talk you into things or "guide" you in the right direction.

Having said that, I don't respond well to ultimatums either. Be careful not to miss the good information because you are angry at the way it was relayed.

For instance....I breastfed my first child without any difficulty and couldn't understand why everyone didn't do it. It was best afterall. The second one comes along and it isn't working so well....cries all the time, wants to eat every half hour and my breasts are engorged. When I called the "experts" desperate for help, she told me I had to try harder and feed him every half hour if that was what he wanted...I just needed to make it a priority. I was angry and felt that since there was no way to do this, I might as well just give up.

Finally she heard my desperation and together we came up with an acceptable solution. If she had just dismissed my complaints as laziness or excuses, I may have stopped. I have friends who did.

Your marriage will not end TODAY if you don't immediately get your 15 hours of UA time. What you need to do is start brainstorming ways to do better....Don't think of it as an ultimatum....think of it as a goal.

There have been some good suggestions on here....doing chores together, waking a bit ealier. I understand your feelings...I was there a few short weeks ago....the thing is, the more time we spend together the more we want to spend together.

These posters have been there and done that so for them it is like watching a child about to fall down the stairs...they know how to stop it and the child just won't let them...so they get frustrated...and maybe a bit harsh.

I don't think it's simple at all but you will figure it out.

Good luck.

I wasn't trying to make it sound easy, either. It's hard, I know. What I was trying to encourage you to do is to put your marriage at the top of your priority list, and let everything else fall where it falls. Because, if you fall out of love with your husband, then nothing else really matters. I know it sounds easier in writing than it does in real life, because there are so many things that must be done.

As Markos said, we've been trying Marriage Builders for 6 years. It hasn't worked until now because we weren't following the whole program. And it just won't work that way. You'll see some improvement here and there, but you won't fall in love with each other. As a result of not following the ENTIRE program, our marriage is very, very fragile.

When Markos first suggested that we spend 15 hours alone together every week, I BALKED. Not only did I think we didn't have the time, but I also didn't really want to spend that much time with him. It meant I had to give up some things that I didn't want to give up.

And it was so, so worth it.

Spend some time thinking radically about your schedules. Come up with crazy ideas that just sound like they won't work at all. Be willing to consider anything. And you will probably come up with some ideas that will work.

Thanks everyone, I will read over the material on the MB site again. It's been nearly two years since I first read it. DH just called me before left to come home from work and says we can take a little bit of the money we put away from our income tax refunds, leave the kids with their grandparents, and go away alone for two days in about three weeks. Two days isn't much but it's a huge improvement over a few hours a week. We'll likely go to Acadia National Park for the day and just walk the trails (one of our favorite dates many years ago) and stay the night in Bangor. (we live in Maine) I'm actually very excited about this!

Torn, I think the trip is a wonderful idea! It will give you two a chance to reconnect as a couple and fall in love. The only danger is coming back to your regular life where it's business as usual.

You two should sit down and brainstorm without abandon. Throw every idea you got out there. Don't discuss their merits just get them into a list. If you don't come up with many leave it for a day or so to let your mind work. Then when uou got all your ideas out there use poja to find a solution that you BOTH are enthusiastic about.

Working marriage builders is kinda like trying to lose weight. If you're 20-30 lbs over weight you could try crash diets to lose the weight, but it's just going to come back. And yo-yoing back and forth is actually MORE damaging to your body. It takes longer but it is better for you if you change your whole life style: what you eat, how you exercise and sleep. That's how he weight gets off and stays off and you're more healthy for the rest of your life.

You have to commit to MB 100% and implement ALL the elements together for it to really work. Only checking in and refreshing every couple of years isn't going to lead to a life long romantic marriage- and you'll experience growing pains each time you have to break bad habits and make new ones. It's a yo yo diet fir your marriage. It is much better if you are familiar with ALL the concepts and live them day in and day out til it's as easy as breathing. Then if you slip up a little bit there are only minor correcions to make.

Torn, here's a Q&A column from Dr. Harley that you might want to look at about a couple taking a vacation to get their marriage back on the right track:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5044a_qa.html